#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2013-12-19

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KabouikIs it possible to arrange songs in tue queue list? Can't do it with drag and drop or long press. Planned for 2014?00:01
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MSameerKabouik: please send your suggestion to care@jolla.com00:09
KabouikThis is the official way to submit suggestions? I thought there wasn't any yet00:09
MSameerKabouik: this is the official way currently. we are working on something better00:10
MSameerbut for now, please email care@jolla.com to make sure your suggestions don't get lost00:10
MSameerthere are people who read that inbox00:11
KabouikAlright, thanks! Indeed it would be easier, because writing an email, say hello, regards, and so on, can quickly become a bit time-consuming when you just want to suggest a feature or report a bug :p00:11
MSameerKabouik: simple00:11
MSameerHi,00:11
MSameerIs it possible to arrange songs in tue queue list? Can't do it with drag and drop or long press. Planned for 2014?00:11
Kabouik:>00:11
MSameerhit send :)00:12
KabouikAnd even if there is not necessarily somebody reading all TMO posts, we know some of you do it, at least on your freetime00:18
KabouikIs there any initiative to copy/paste the interesting suggestions seen there?00:19
KabouikBecause there are a lot00:19
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MSameeri follow the 200 pages thread00:22
MSameersome stuff are known bugs, some stuff i push inside00:22
MSameersome stuff i drop because i can not process :/00:22
MSameerbut the thread is huge really00:23
KabouikThere are a lot of 200 pages threads :P00:26
KabouikAnyway I know you cannot follow everything, good to know already that some stuff you find interesting are kept somewhere00:27
MSameerthe user experience thread00:28
MSameeri can't follow the glitches and bugs one00:28
MSameeri am a human :)00:28
KabouikToo bad, there are a lot of interesting bugs/designs to improve in there :p00:29
MSameeri am sure others are following00:29
KabouikYep sure00:29
MSameerbut i can check it00:29
KabouikFrom what I understood, the user experience thread is mostly a review thread turning into a "what is wrong thread"00:31
KabouikAnd the glitches and bugs one is mostly a "what's wrong thread" turning into "how could it be improved" :P00:31
MSameerbut it was the first one00:31
KabouikOf course there is a lot of overlap00:31
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KabouikYes sure00:32
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KabouikAnd apart from the overlap, both threads are very complementary00:32
MSameeryup00:33
MSameerthat's true00:33
KabouikThat's also why I ask if they are followed with notebook and a pen by some sailors. Not knowing if they are tends to push me to post same ideas in different manners in both00:33
KabouikWhich basically makes the threads less useful00:34
phdeswerKabouik: if the same points get constantly rehashed in both as people repeat the same thing00:34
KabouikThere is also a trend effect00:34
MSameerKabouik: the more people emailing care@ asking for the same thing, the more likely it gets prioritized00:35
KabouikOne day some guy comes with an idea that makes baby ideas in other's minds00:35
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petantikif only there was a public issue tracker00:40
petantikfor bugs00:40
Kabouikhttp://wiki.gpodder.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS00:41
KabouikI'm trying to do that. Am I right that there is no way to select all that text in Sailfish browser to paste it in fingerterm?00:41
MSameerpetantik: there will be a way to report bugs and it will be viewable and searchable00:41
MSameerpetantik: it will not a be a public bug tracker00:41
KabouikExcellent news that it will be viewable MSameer00:41
MSameerpetantik: but it will be something we hope you will like00:41
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MSameeroops. what have i just said :D00:42
Kabouik:o00:42
petantikMSameer: yes. i understand that the public view might just show  known issues00:43
MSameerpetantik: we can't open the internal bug tracker but we are working on something00:43
MSameeri know it's frustrating for you00:44
petantikMSameer: development is hard enough without outside pressure.00:44
MSameernd for me as well00:44
MSameerproblem is we the developers are the ones taking the pressure :p00:45
petantikMSameer: i know the feeling all too well00:46
chriadamKabouik: thanks.  I still haven't tracked down the issue with the missing three.  I'm working on a patch to fix our import code today.  I don't know when it will be released, but if people are interested, they'll be able to build the vcardconverter from the repo (nemo-qml-plugin-contacts/tools)00:47
KabouikI can wait, not intending to press you :p Just reporting those in case you want to share the commandline you gave me, was a good temporary workaround00:48
KabouikEven if not 100% working00:48
M4rtinKwell, from my experience a standard bugzilla setup with public/private bugs & comments works fine :)00:49
chriadamwell, feel free to do that.  one part of my fix to vcardconverter will simply be preprocessing the input vcf and looking for lines which match the "END:VCARDBEGIN:VCARD" form, and changing to two lines: "END:VCARD"\r\n"BEGIN:VCARD".  but as you say, there's still an outstanding bug there somewhere.00:50
M4rtinKpeople can report their issue, so there are not duplicates all over the place00:50
M4rtinKand priority can be easily judged - either by triage & some bugs exploding to 100+ comments :)00:51
MSameerM4rtinK: have you read stefano's post?00:51
M4rtinKMSameer: ML or TMO ?00:51
MSameerM4rtinK: TMO00:51
M4rtinKMSameer: not yet, I'll check it out00:52
MSameerM4rtinK: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1390834&postcount=2600:52
M4rtinKoh, that one00:53
MSameerstezz = stefano00:53
M4rtinKMSameer: well, sure the frequent problem - lack of manpower :)00:54
M4rtinKMSameer: on the other hand, one wants to be a perfectionist sometime :)00:54
MSameerlet's not go into that please :)00:55
Kabouikhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1398503&posted=1#post1398503 Feel free to ask corrections chriadam if I said something wrong, or not as you want me to share it00:56
chriadamcool, that's fine00:57
M4rtinKMSameer: anyway, got my Jolla today - good job ! :)00:58
MSameerM4rtinK: hope you like it :)00:58
M4rtinKMSameer: & thanks a lot ! :)00:58
M4rtinKMSameer: sure ! :)00:58
MSameeri am glad you do :)00:58
Kabouiki intentionally did not mention your nickname chriadam, not sure you wanted to be bothered about that directly :p00:59
Kabouik(That's basically what I'm doing, bothering you about that :o)00:59
chriadameh, doesn't bother me either way - but I am going on vacation starting next week, so I won't be around if people did want to ask me questions00:59
KabouikNo you cant. Permission declined.01:00
KabouikI've got that paper here, Tomi signed it.01:00
chriadam;-)01:00
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MSameeri am going on vacation on Friday :P01:02
chriadamI think it's worth noting that most people are taking at least some time off over Christmas, I believe01:06
MFaro-Tusinochriadam: Whats the weather looking like for you over the break?01:08
KabouikWorking till 24th :'(01:08
chriadamMFaro-Tusino: well, I'm heading to Japan for a snowboarding trip, so hopefully snowy and cold ;-)01:08
MFaro-TusinoThat sounds awesome! My friends did that last year (think they entered some competition too)01:09
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KabouikSo about copy/pasting text from the browser, am I missing something, or is it impossible yet?01:12
KabouikTried with an Android browser too, but the clipboard seems constrained to Dalvik01:12
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TurskiKabouik: i think it's not implemented yet01:13
chriadamMFaro-Tusino: it'll be my first time skiing/snowboarding so i expect to spend more time sliding down a hill on my backside than actually snowboarding, but either way it'll be a blast :-D01:13
KabouikThanks Turski. Not really convenient for copying command lines from forums :p01:13
MFaro-Tusinochriadam: Yeah - I can imagine! Have an awesome time and stay safe :D01:14
chriadamwill try :-) thanks!01:14
TurskiKabouik: yep, have noticed thattoo01:14
Turskiwould be interesting to know how the clipboard have been implemented at all since we are not on X1101:16
Turskidbus?01:16
KabouikMSameer, I cannot keep it for myself any longer, the secret is too heavy to carry01:19
KabouikYou have to change your avatar on TMO, or I may die exceptionnaly early.01:19
MSameerKabouik: i am all ears :)01:19
MSameerKabouik: why?01:19
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KabouikIt reminds the 90s, in a soooo "I lived the 90's, and even then, my hair was above the average." manner01:20
MSameerKabouik: what's wromg with it?01:20
MSameermmm01:20
MSameerbut that's my hair :)01:20
KabouikThat's a very yellow hair :p01:21
KabouikBiased white balance then :P01:22
MSameerKabouik: http://foolab.org/node/173901:23
KabouikThat's not yellow there!01:23
MSameerit was yellowish :)01:24
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MSameerbut ok, I will try to find something better and use it01:24
MSameeri have been using that avatar for years01:24
MSameer"sniff"01:24
KabouikI was just kidding, it's exactly because I've seen it for years :p01:24
MSameeri am really not into these things01:25
MSameeryou will always find me at the same place, same desktop since y2k01:25
MSameersame wallpaper, ring tone, ...01:25
MSameeri don't even change what i wear unless wife asks me to do it :P01:26
KabouikHéhé :p01:26
MSameerKabouik: how about that ? http://foolab.org/node/465 ;)01:28
KabouikAs for the 90's comment, don't take it as bad comment, I sort of have the same hair just currently, just not blond01:29
MSameer:)01:30
MSameerKabouik: i think the picture was taken in the 90s :D01:31
KabouikSo I was right!01:31
KabouikNo seriously, because of the deep-etch made in Paint and the biased white balance (not the same blond hair as on the photos you just shared here), I thought the tiny avatar was a drawing01:33
KabouikEditing images in Paint, proof the picture is from the 90's :')01:34
MSameeri cropped it from an image :)01:34
MSameerKabouik: http://foolab.org/node/39201:35
KabouikAh I recognize!01:35
MSameerthat's the original01:35
KabouikWell, that confirms the white balance totally out01:36
MSameer:)01:36
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MSameeri think the camera was broken :)01:36
KabouikWell, seems typical for a photo under artificial light indoor01:37
KabouikBut the deep-etch made in paint is unforgivable!01:37
MSameeri can't see any etch :)01:38
KabouikNot sure of the translation, that's just what I got on Google for the a ction of cropping just to the face by following contours01:39
MSameerand it's gimp BTW :)01:39
MSameerhackergotchi :P01:40
KabouikAcceptable then :o01:40
MSameerbut yeah my poor artistic skills01:41
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MSameerKabouik: but i will try to find a better one01:43
KabouikNah but don't take it seriously MSameer!01:43
MSameerKabouik: i will not send a serial killer after you so no worries :D01:43
KabouikI was just kidding on the fact the 90's are not making us feel young anymore!01:44
KabouikSure, I hope so! Plus you could get my address from my order number in the Google tracking number spreadsheet :p01:44
MSameeri haven't checked that :)01:45
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MSameerKabouik: I have a young kid and past 30 so not young anymore01:46
MSameerreality01:46
KabouikAnyhow, I was just kidding because the pic reminds me that period, makes me feel old because I knew that period, and because I get comments on my "too curly big hair" on a daily basis when I don't tie them. :o01:46
MSameer:D01:47
KabouikAs for the pic looking like a drawing, the actual original pic is really different, so  wouldn't like you to take it personnaly because of a stupid joke at the beginning :p01:47
MSameeri know it's not personal :)01:47
KabouikWell, I couldn't have a kid past 30. You're definitely the old one here. Makes me feel better!01:48
* Kabouik dances.01:48
KabouikOh crap I read too quickly01:49
MSameerlol01:49
KabouikI read that you had a kid over 30 years old :<01:49
MSameernooooooooooo01:49
* Kabouik stops dancing and takes a drink.01:50
AardMSameer: really? you look old enough for that :p01:51
Kabouik:< !01:51
MSameerAard: get back to answering care emails :P01:51
KabouikSo that's you Aard!01:51
Aardwhat's me?01:51
KabouikThe person behind care :o01:52
KabouikOr one of the* :o01:52
Aardno, I'm not01:52
KabouikCrap, the mystery is still intact01:52
AardI'm just consulted by them now and then because I now one or two things01:52
MSameerAard is our beloved guy who sends green lights for the updates and prepares them :)01:52
MSameeramong other things :p01:53
KabouikThat's the biggest secret in Jolla headquarters. Who reads care :o01:53
* Aard knows01:53
* MSameer knows too01:53
KabouikSo you probably both sleep with the person who reads care.01:54
KabouikOr you wouldn't know.01:54
KabouikHave to share that finding on TMO. :o01:54
MSameeri need to put that in the topic01:54
MSameer So you probably both sleep with the person who reads care.01:55
AardMSameer: what, you're cheating with my affair?!01:55
MSameerhow impolite can someone be here?01:55
KabouikHey Aard, that's a small 80-people start-up, people get to chat with each other at the coffee break...01:55
KabouikAnd there are only 79 possibilities :o01:56
AardKabouik: not me, I usually work from home. :)01:56
AardMSameer: less than #w :)01:56
KabouikThat explains why you had no clue on the MSameer/Care-Reading-person affair. :>01:56
MSameerAard: no no. I am not into men at all. I don't interfere with your affairs01:59
* Aard looks relieved01:59
KabouikHappy end then! :p02:01
KabouikWell, I'd better go get some sleep. See you later and good night02:02
MSameergood night02:02
KabouikAnd MSameer, don't change it ;)02:02
MSameercome on?02:02
Kabouik?02:03
MSameercome on :p02:03
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KabouikI'd feel mildy guilty if you change it because of a silly joke :p02:04
KabouikWell. I'm not here anymore. Thanks for the help and answers about the TMO threads earlier! Good night.02:04
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* Aard considers going to bed as well02:07
* MFaro-Tusino never ceases to be impressed by timezones - as he gets ready for lunch at 1pm in Sydney02:10
AardMFaro-Tusino: it's after 4 in the night here :)02:11
MFaro-Tusinogo sleep02:11
MFaro-Tusinostop considering it and just do it!02:11
* Aard is still working :)02:12
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mattaustinAnyone going to Linux Conf Australia 2014?03:36
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crevetorHi guys, do we have any specifics on the cellular frequencies supported by Jolla ?03:57
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atlazWhats this, an update for my phone?05:27
atlazI wonder what was updated05:30
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atlazbah, just some store-fix05:33
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atlazWhich installed the tutorial-app again06:02
atlazNow im afraid to remove it06:02
specialyou shouldn't06:05
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* Trizt hates this waiting...06:43
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Dima^why I cannot see from whish number txt message came from.. furstrating06:43
Dima^*which06:43
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Dima^If contact has few number, I don't know to which to respond06:44
Triztdon't it autoselect when you reply?06:45
specialit will automatically select the same number (or IM account) as the last message06:45
Dima^to the new one yes.. but if I want to check to which number to call06:46
specialbut yes; it's a known oversight, there are bugs filed06:46
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CoderCandyAnd today, my friends, I've waited 3 weeks.06:48
CoderCandySo any day now my Jolla should be here!06:48
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atlazHngh. Fuckin Windows 8.1. Fucking nVidia GT7300. Fucking Intel integrated graphics. Fucking three-monitor-setup. Fucking DWM crashing06:54
atlazI didn't even want to work the first hour today.06:55
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Quu:-D07:11
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fluxsoo, has it been established if the NFC in jolla is usable for things other than TOH? I've heard claims both of positive and negative.07:59
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crysazflux: heard? any blog posts about the subject?08:05
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crysazand btw, how can i change the background picture?08:06
Stskeepscrysaz: gallery -> select image -> create ambience08:06
MMoriStskeeps: do you have automated reply for common questions or are you just incredibly fast?08:07
StskeepsMMori: coffeelevel = high08:07
MMoriStskeeps: I hear you! :)08:07
Stskeepsand no, i don't have canned responses08:07
crysazStskeeps: thanks. that menu is a bit hidden and it doesn't work most of the time08:07
atlazWhy no, i am not a robot - i AM a real person08:08
jussiaww, canned responses are awesome!08:08
jussi:P08:08
atlazhttp://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/10/meet-the-robot-telemarketer-who-denies-shes-a-robot/ <- Thats Stskeeps08:08
atlazListen to the recordings if you have a chance. Sammy is friggin scary08:08
Stskeepsatlaz: hmm, i think i might have been subjected to an earlier version who wanted to be my girlfriend..08:09
Stskeeps:P08:09
jussihaha<08:09
MMoriOh my god, Yle Areena app :o08:10
atlazYeah, and it's live play doesn't work08:10
atlazAtleast on my screen it's all scrambled08:10
MMori...08:10
MMoriGreat08:11
atlazRecordings seem to work tho08:11
MMoriBut I'd rather have Netflix anyways ;)08:11
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atlazYeah, Live-play is still FUBAR. Recordings work08:12
jussinice that Yle app is coming though!08:12
atlazMMori: have you tried installing android-neflix?08:12
jussiDoes flasah work on the device? (curiousity)08:12
atlazjussi: i guess you could download and install android flash from adobe08:12
MMoriI only have Yandex and Amazon stores installed... Can't find Netflix from those.08:13
koris there something like icedtea available?08:13
atlazMMori: ok, ill try. I got Google play installed08:13
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atlazSignin in...08:14
MMoriatlaz: Is there a "tutorial" on installing google play somewhere?08:14
MMoriCan't find anything from Yandex and Amazon to install08:14
atlazWohoo, Archer playing thru Netflix on Jolla08:14
atlazAchievement unlocked08:15
MMori:P08:15
korhttp://lmgtfy.com/?q=jolla+google+play08:15
MMoriThank you kor!08:15
atlazMMori: http://jollafin.blogspot.fi/2013/11/play-store-for-jolla.html08:15
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atlazGot a "could not retrive data" when i tried to watch V for Vendetta, but archer seems to work08:16
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MMoriatlaz: Thank you atlaz08:16
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koratlaz: that might just be netflix08:16
atlazMMori: check comment "Heikki December 12, 2013 at 8:40 AM"08:17
atlazif you don't have access to a computer08:17
atlazAtleast thats how I installed mine08:17
MMoriI've never had connection issues or any other issues with Netflix but it would be the first time08:17
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MMoriatlaz: thanks for pointing that out :)08:18
MMorikor, google doesn't do as good job in pointing things out than atlaz and other kind community members08:18
atlazYeah, but you'll learn more if you have to do it yourself ;P08:19
MMoriand my grammar is bad again, but who cares08:19
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MMoriatlaz: I've done plenty myself :)08:19
atlazMMori: i didn't mean you exactly, but people overall. If you have to put the effort in it, you learn much more :)08:19
ggabrielmorning/afternoon/evening08:19
korMMori: yeah, i understand, it's just. that took <3 seconds and the stuff in the article is straightforward08:19
MMoriI sense a storm coming, now I remain silent08:20
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MMorihi ggabriel08:20
Dima^Oh, crap...08:21
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Dima^I've put empty microsim adapter in to N9, and now I cannot open sim slot...08:21
atlazWhat is..this.. oh my lord... LASER EQUIPPED BEARD TRIMMER.08:22
koruse a small needle08:22
Jopeouch ouch ouch08:22
atlazI-i, I NEED IT08:22
Jopedima, be very careful08:22
ggabrielDima^: ouch, never do that again (it's in the adaptor's instructoins :-) )08:22
Jopebasically you need to slide something08:22
ggabrielatlaz: link?08:22
Jopea thin piece of plastic or something08:22
Jopebetween the adapter and the sim slot contacts08:22
Jopethen you can pull it out08:22
ggabrielDima^: and switch off the phone while doing it ofc08:22
Dima^Jope: I thin I just need to press pins away08:23
Dima^ggabriel: it is off08:23
atlazggabriel: http://www.philips.co.uk/c/Facial-stylers-and-grooming-kits/beardtrimmer-series-9000-0.2-mm-precision-settings-full-metal-dual-sided-trimmer-60-mins-cordless-use-1-hr-charge-with-laser-guide-bt9280_33/prd/08:23
Jopedima, if you take the display off, there are holes through which you can push on the pins08:23
Jopethree at the same time..08:23
atlazhttp://images.philips.com/is/image/PhilipsConsumer/BT9280_33-MI1-global-001?align=0%2C0&hei=384&$jpglarge$ oh man thats so cool what the hell man08:23
JopeIF your adapter has a through hole in it08:23
tj____haha jolla in the most popular finnish daily news paper comic strip.. http://hs13.snstatic.fi/webkuva/sarjis/560/1305762665686?ts=264 need an advanced level in finnish language to get the joke though and there's no point trying to translate that 'cause the joke is based on the original language08:23
Dima^almost throught.. it has thin layer at the bottom08:23
Jopeok08:24
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Jopethen your best bet is to slide the piece of plastic between08:24
ggabrielatlaz: go get it :-)08:24
Dima^Jope: I've think about it.. but I have only thin carton paper08:24
Jopeok08:24
atlazggabriel: i already posted a "if anyone is still looking for a christmas present for me, may i suggest A FRIGGIN LASER GUIDED BEARD TRIMMER" on facebook08:24
Jopethat might also help08:24
Jopebut the edges will probably just get dented08:25
Jopeplastic is the best I've found.08:25
Dima^they just did :)08:25
Dima^have to find some plastic08:25
JopeI had to rescue a few N950s in my time when people did it here at the office08:25
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Dima^so it is possible..08:25
Jopeyes08:25
nanderjolla is teasing us...08:25
jussihow about just an "automatic laser beard trimmer"08:25
nandershop down for maintenance *trololol*08:25
Stskeepsnext up: the new iphone!08:26
ggabrielnander: hehe08:26
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nanderiphone? I'd rather get aids...08:26
ggabrieltoo much load08:26
jussiStskeeps: haha08:26
jussiStskeeps: a new Jolla phone already?08:26
jussior another half...08:27
Stskeepsjolla with unicorn and ponies08:27
Joperainbows and lollipops08:27
jussioooh and rainbows out of its but?08:27
jussibutt08:27
nanderI'd buy a unicorn-pony other half08:27
atlazI..i can't get over that laser guided beard trimmer-thingy08:27
atlazMy wife's gonna kill herself if someone gets me that08:27
jussiatlaz: link or it doesnt exist...08:27
Stskeepshmm08:27
atlaz"YOU GOTTA STOP WITH THAT "CHARGING MAH LAZORZ" OR I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL LEAVE YOU!"08:27
atlazjussi @ 10:2308:28
Stskeepshmm, beard trimmer TOH?08:28
nanderit would be hilarious to create an official jolla qwerty other half and give it a unicorn rainbow pony background08:28
ggabrielok, i get the joke, but it isn't funny when it is explained08:28
Jopeindeed it is not.08:28
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Jopelanguage trickery never works when translated :-)08:28
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Jopeand boy is the finnish language full of exploitable goodness that no foreigner can ever get. :-D08:28
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jussithat one is an awesome joke  :D08:29
ggabrielJope: i saw a lot of dubbed stuff in my time, and after seeing it in english, i have to admit that some people pull it off08:29
jussiand I agree, trying to explain it would kill it08:29
ggabrielnow... jolla=boat/who/which? really?08:29
Jopejolla = boat08:29
Jopejoka = whom08:30
Jopejolla = whom has08:30
ggabrielright08:30
fluxcrysaz, read random comments, no pointers sorry08:30
ggabrielnever saw that before08:30
atlazhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinghy_sailing == Jolla08:30
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atlazI mean, Dinghy would have been a much more cool name for the company08:30
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nanderI think a student here must have quite a laugh when I entered Alankamaat (or however it's spelled) in the surname field08:30
ggabrielin my home country there's a place called "moron"08:32
ggabrieland they have a university08:32
ggabrielsome people put in their cv's "moron university"08:32
nanderlol08:32
jussiatlaz: so we could all just change it into dingy ?:P08:32
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atlazggabriel: http://literalfinnish.tumblr.com/post/13789157400/i-couldnt-look-at-this-and-not-translate-some-of (those are some real places in finland)08:32
atlazI'd really like to live in Leather Pants08:33
atlazIf Kuuma and Nahkahousut would join in a mutual municipality, then their name would be HOT LEATHERPANTS!08:34
ggabrielhahaha08:34
jussiI used to live near to the shortest named place in europe... Ii08:34
nanderA08:35
nanderThat's shorter ;)08:35
ggabrieljussi: then you moved to wales, where the longest named place is, right?08:35
atlazYeah. I accidentally discriminated the people of Ii for a while. My webshops order form didn't validate unless your city name was longer than three characters :)08:35
jussiggabriel: lol08:35
ggabrielatlaz: Ii-10char?08:35
Dima^Just learned from another forum that using adapters voids warranty and Nokia charges 210.- Euro (270 US$) for repair. :D08:35
Dima^oh crap..08:36
jussiactually, its not the shortest name, but pretty damn close08:36
nanderA (with a circle on it) is a town in Norway08:36
jussiÅ08:36
atlazÅ, you mean08:36
Joperiver (?)08:36
atlazThats swedish/norwegian for river08:36
Jopeyes08:36
nanderIt's a town08:36
ggabrielDima^: that's elop's doing08:36
nanderAs well08:36
jussihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_short_place_names08:36
atlaznander: yeah08:36
ggabrieli bet it's free for lumias08:36
Dima^Nice, this N9 isn't in this price anymore08:37
nanderThe n9 has only one purpose right now08:37
nanderGetting people to buy WP08:37
nanderI put the nokia rss feed on once08:37
nanderOnly Windows Phone stuff08:37
nanderNO N9 stuff08:37
nanderNothing08:37
Dima^hmm.. If I can't sell this N9, I can use it as a sauna-phone and use internet via wifi :)08:38
nanderit's like nokia wants n9 users to regret their decision to buy an n908:38
ggabrielwhen the jolla becomes my primary one, the n9 will be an expensive voip client i think08:38
ggabrielor i'll give it to my gf when her e7 dies08:38
nandermy n9 will probably just take up space in a drawer ;)08:38
ggabrielor i'll use it to install sailfish08:38
Jopemy n9 is in its original sales box08:39
ggabriels@or@and/or@08:39
JopeI have a second one too and it's also gathering dust08:39
ggabrielJope: i've got that too08:39
Dima^Jope: me too08:39
nanderphonecalls work on sailfish, but not much else works08:39
ggabrieland i've got the headphones, unused08:39
ggabrielnander: yeah, but you can do multiboot and play08:39
nanderalien dalvik, for instance, doesn't08:39
nanderI did ;)08:39
ggabrieli don't think it's a good idea to keep dev mode on all the itme in your primary phone08:39
nanderThe ui is a bit borked on mine08:39
nanderI have to close apps from the right instead of from the top08:39
ggabrielunless i buy aonther jolla... uhm....08:39
ggabrielnander: yeah, known issue08:40
Dima^ggabriel: why?08:40
ggabrielbecause things can happen08:40
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Dima^If I need terminal.. I have to keep devmode on08:40
ggabrielsomething that you update or that you do that requires you to restore08:40
ggabrielDima^: you can create your own shortcut08:40
ggabrielwell, you can in the n908:40
ggabrieli believe it will be similar with sailfish08:40
ggabrieli use the terminal a lot08:40
nanderthere is no flasher yet unfortunately08:40
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nanderso you can't *fully* restore08:41
ggabrielnander: no, but i mean reset to factory settings08:41
ggabrielrestore contacts and stuff from a backup08:41
ggabrieland all08:41
ggabrieli mean, suppose you're doing something one evening on your primary phone08:41
ggabrielat 23.30 something happens and you have to restor everything08:42
ggabrielnext morning  you have to be up at 6am08:42
ggabrielyou want to kill yourself08:42
nanderif you play with things like wayland worse things could happen than a factory reset can solve08:42
ggabrielyeap, fair enough08:42
zbenjaminWhy can't android apps access the contacts database?08:42
nanderWell, the factory reset can solve it, but you can't get to the button08:42
ggabrielbut for that you wait until the proper restore08:42
nanderzbenjamin - security08:42
nanderThere is no UI to set that up yet, so it's a deny all at the moment08:42
Dima^MAybe I try some Nokia Service, where they can try to open it on location08:42
zbenjaminnander: can i disable that? apps like WhatsApp are pretty useless without accessing contacts08:43
Dima^zbenjamin: it sandboxed08:43
nandernot yet08:43
nanderthe connection is not yet possible08:43
zbenjaminhmm ok, but it is planned in the future?08:43
nanderI don't know08:43
Dima^have to be :)08:43
nanderI think it'd have to be08:43
Dima^it useless otherwise08:43
nanderNot useless08:44
nanderWhat's app is useless then08:44
zbenjaminhand - tweaking also not possible?08:44
ggabrielsome people managed to get WA working08:44
zbenjaminnander: like every app that needs access to contacts08:44
nanderYou can  use 10.000.000 farting apps xD08:44
ggabrieli mean, reading ocntacts08:44
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* ggabriel wants a WA client where i can set up contacts on the side so that they download only what i want them to download08:44
zbenjaminnander: yeah who cares about Angry Birds, that are apps i can fully live without08:44
zbenjaminggabriel: rly? who? how? ;)08:45
zbenjaminso its must be possible to hand tweak it08:45
ggabrielzbenjamin: search tmo's jolla ux thread08:45
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ggabrielsome could, some couldn't08:45
ggabrielthat's something i won't do when i get my phone tho08:45
ggabrieli don't use WA08:45
BysmyyrI have most of the contacts in WA, they come when I wait several days. someone said that it not see other than normal local contacts08:46
zbenjamintmo like talk.maemo.org?08:46
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ggabrielzbenjamin: yes08:46
zbenjaminBysmyyr: hu?08:46
ggabrielzbenjamin: there are no technical details though08:46
Bysmyyrzbenjamin: ?08:47
hene-question of the day: did TheBootroo got his Jolla?08:47
zbenjaminBysmyyr: they just appeared?08:47
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Bysmyyryep08:47
ggabrielBysmyyr: maybe they appear when WA actually wants do download them?08:47
Bysmyyrmaybe...08:47
ggabrielwhich would suck really :)08:47
zbenjaminwell i got all my old conversations from my android but no contacts08:47
zbenjamineverything is just phone numbers08:47
Bysmyyrggabriel: but there is also new names which are not come from previous phone08:48
ggabrielBysmyyr: you have to explain zbenjamin what trickery you used to make it work :)08:49
zbenjaminyes please :)08:49
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Bysmyyrzbenjamin: nothing :) just installed and tryed refresh several times in several days08:49
Bysmyyrbut you have to have local contacts, no google etc...08:50
jussihene-: I guess so, either that or he gave up...08:50
ggabrielhene-: he's busy refreshing the fedex page now08:50
zbenjaminBysmyyr: ah i just have google contacts :/08:51
Bysmyyrbut not all numbers, about 10% is missing. zbenjamin download them and import08:51
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TheBootroohene-: should get it today08:52
zbenjaminBysmyyr: that would break my contacts from syncing ,,,, not nice08:52
Bysmyyrchoices...08:53
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hene-jussi, ggabriel :D08:53
hene-TheBootroo, I surely hope so! :)08:53
ggabrielTheBootroo: pretty quick turnaround08:54
ggabrielwhen did you have it in picking? mon/tue, right?08:54
TheBootrooggabriel: tuesday09:00
TheBootroofedex is flying right now09:00
TheBootrooshould be here in a hurry09:00
TheBootroobut i won't have it today,09:00
TheBootrooi'm not home today09:00
TheBootroowill have it tomorow or saturday09:00
TheBootrooit'll be laying under the christmas tree, that will be beautiful09:01
TheBootroo^^09:01
ggabrielTheBootroo: cool :) so you won't open it09:01
TheBootrooggabriel: ermm, i'll open it saturday at least, that you can be sure of ;-)09:01
hene-:D09:01
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MMoriTheBootroo: Now I can say the "Yesssss!" for you09:09
TheBootrooMMori: NO.09:10
TheBootrooit's MY yes09:10
MMori:P09:10
TheBootrooi'll say it all by myself09:10
TheBootrooXD09:10
MMoriFine then, I meant it in a good way :)09:10
jussimama mama, MMori stole my Yesssss!09:10
TheBootrooand you guys will hear it whatever how far you leave09:10
MMoriYes not accepted09:10
jussi:P09:10
chem|stTheBootroo: grats!09:10
ggabrieljussi: rotfl09:10
MMorithat's what you get for trying to be nice. :(09:10
TheBootroojussi : mama, juste killed a man09:10
* ggabriel resisting the temptation of being mean09:11
TheBootrooMMori: stealing other's 'yes' is not nice dude09:11
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MMori:(09:11
TheBootroobut you can say "i'm so glad for you, truly"09:11
TheBootrooXDDDD09:11
TriztHow do you check the status on the delivery now?09:11
ggabrielMMori: you can say yes for me when i have it, don't worry ;-)09:12
TheBootrooTrizt: fedex.com09:12
chem|stso who was that interested in battery performance? 24% lost in 10h with no wifi no mdata; apps running messanger clock phone calendar09:12
MMoriggabriel: you're too kind09:12
chem|streceived 4 sms09:12
TheBootroo\o/09:12
TriztTheBootroo: not found09:12
MMoriTheBootroo: I'm truly happy for you09:12
ggabrielchem|st: android on or off?09:12
ggabrielchem|st: and location?09:12
chem|standroid activated location off09:12
jussiMMori: you are welcome to buy me a jolla and then say Yessss for me when it comes :P'09:12
ggabrielTrizt: keep checking fedex until it appears09:12
chem|stno android apps running09:13
celeron55chem|st: i actually tested last night too; 24% in 11 hours with no SIM, no wifi and settings app being idle09:13
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ggabrielchem|st: it's been reported that if you shut down the acl, battery gets better09:13
MMorijussi: You're too greedy :P09:13
chem|stceleron55: so about the same I had..09:13
jussiaaaaawwww09:13
celeron55it's quite what one should expect from a smartphone with this size battery09:13
MMorijussi: You can try Santa Claus with that one09:13
chem|stceleron55: 4h on wifi down from ~70% to 25%09:13
ggabrielthat's pretty steep09:14
jussiMMori: but... but... Stskeeps is santa claus this year and he is MEAN! :P :P09:14
celeron55so hopefully we get larger batteries (we will, because it's replaceable and sits just behind the other half)09:14
Pnuuchem|st, celeron55: sounds familiar09:14
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MMorijussi: Does he bite and beat?09:14
ggabrielhopefully wifi power saving isn't implemented yet09:14
Pnuuceleron55: we will get better performance after some tweaking in the firmware09:14
chem|stceleron55: no its not... my n9 looses ~10%/d09:14
jussiMMori: youll have to ask him that yourself - bit personal questions :P09:15
celeron55Pnuu: are any particular numbers we should expect?09:15
celeron55+there09:15
MMorijussi: :P09:15
chem|stTrizt: how do you check your status09:15
Pnuuas I've understood, there's very little power saving features present09:15
celeron55chem|st: well, i was comparing to android09:15
chem|stTrizt: you know about checking reference + country + postalcode09:15
Pnuu'cause the SoC changed late in the design09:15
Triztchem|st: I used to use the shop page but now it's down09:15
Pnuuceleron55: no, atleast I haven't seen09:16
chem|stceleron55: android sucks... but not as good as apple09:16
ggabrieldefine "apple"09:16
jussimy electrolux sucks pretty nicely... :P09:16
ggabrieliphone 4 is extemelly bad09:16
Triztchem|st: yes, but I don't remember my postcode that well09:16
chem|stTrizt: go to fedex.com - search package but do not enter tracking number go to the search by reference - reference = 20000xxxx09:17
Triztjust wonder how many days it's should be in "picking", feels it's been like that for ever09:17
chem|stTrizt: you don't remember your address?09:17
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Triztchem|st: no, just lived here for 2 years09:17
chem|stTrizt: why don't you know your postcode then?09:18
Triztchem|st: no, I usually google for it09:18
chem|sthehe, then do that!09:18
Triztbut don't help, still not found09:18
ggabrielTrizt: have you considered writing down your own address in your address book?09:18
ggabrieli think you definitely need the post code if you search by reference in fedex09:19
Triztsaw that quite many had already switched to shipping on the google doc with order numbers around me09:19
ggabrieli may be wrong09:19
Triztggabriel: was thinking of doing that on my underwear ;)09:19
ggabrielTrizt: that would be a big job... i'm hoping you have more than 1 set of underwear09:20
Triztggabriel: why would I? wash them each time I take a bath, around x-mas ;)09:20
chem|stceleron55: my N9 lost in the same time about 3%09:20
ggabrielhaha09:21
celeron55my e63 (which i use as a phone now and for the past many years) loses maybe 6% in light use in that time09:21
celeron55i'll take jolla or other sailfish thing into use once they reach that kind of battery life and have a keyboard09:22
pp_wifi and android seem to be powersucks, yes09:22
pp_powertop <309:22
chem|stTrizt: I am pretty sure you have a trackingnumber even if it is not sent yet...09:22
Triztchem|st: can't find it with reference09:23
mcfriskyandex store service agreement is really unreadable on jolla browser, I guess that may be on purpose but still09:23
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chem|stI don't know any android device apart of my 7" tab that holds several days...09:23
TriztI have around the same order number as TheBootroo09:23
Triztmcfrisk: it just states that FSB can do what ever they want with your personal information09:24
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chem|stTrizt: then fsb has now a firstname r and a lastname s and an email and knows my mothers name...09:25
mcfriskTrizt: sure, FSB will do anything they want anyway, but I should be able to read the agreement on jolla without scrolling sideways every paragraph on single line.09:25
mcfriskand the paragraphs are not even completely rendered, sigh.09:26
Triztthat is bad, maybe it uses a too big viewpoint09:27
ggabrielcopy/paste url to a desktop and read it once and that's it?09:27
ggabrielwe know that landscape will arrive for the browser eventually09:27
celeron55i installed 1mobile store on mine, and it's pretty good, doesn't require login and full of stuff (including all kinds of crap, malware and advertisements)09:28
ggabriel(chuck norris would retype the url instead of copy pasting)09:28
celeron55*1mobile market09:28
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cvpAhoi09:31
Triztat last, they got it into their database, is there any way to see which company will deliver?09:31
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cvpFedEx09:31
ggabrielshop back online09:31
ggabrielyou can order w/o preorder09:32
Triztwhich local company will deliver it for fedex?09:32
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mcfriskYandex registration has typos: "Please choose a questoin"09:34
ggabrielmcfrisk: mac os x's man pages have typos too09:34
ggabriel:)09:35
mcfriskAlso, editing png screenshots is not possible, sigh.09:35
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* ShadowJK checks if anything happened to his preorder09:36
ggabrielhehe, shop's homepage says 3-4 weeks but the product detail page says 2-4 weeks09:37
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ShadowJKin picking D:09:37
ggabrielShadowJK: woohoo09:38
ggabrielmine hasn't changed though09:38
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ShadowJKwas like that yesterday too, and that was the official last day for a package to reach before xmas :)09:38
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stephgShadowJK mine was in picking I think until I got it09:39
stephgI got the tracking email but it was already here09:39
ggabrielShadowJK: official according to whom? even royal mail in the uk guarantees if you post 1st class on friday :)09:39
TriztShadowJK: mine was at picking this morning, but just 10 mins ago I could find it in fedex tracking search09:39
ShadowJKaccording itella in .fi, afaik09:39
ggabrielShadowJK: ah, finland is a different story09:40
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piglettochem|st: glad to hear that your jolla drains battery so fast, that means that I'm not the only one ;)09:42
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piglettofrom 100% to 75 within 7 hours of doing nothing, just lying and awaiting alarm clock...09:43
chem|stpigletto: yeah it is know so far only not how much as everybody is on first/second cycle09:44
chem|stpigletto: will powertop...09:44
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chem|stoh yeha guys if you cannot ssh to your device... mine stalls on login and proceeds when unlocking the device...09:46
Stskeepschem|st: it's a security feature09:46
chem|stStskeeps: it seems to do that on cl input too09:46
piglettochem|st: I've noticed slowndown when screen is locked, eg. when connected via ssh and running top -d109:47
chem|stbut yeah I guessed that! nice btw!09:47
ShadowJKBattery itself doesn't change performance between first and 20th cycle in any statistically significant wat. The meter, however, could change :P09:47
Stskeepsfwiw, locked and screen off, it naturally goes into a bit of suspend-like mode09:48
chem|stShadowJK: yeah it probably does what they all do... get stuck at some percentage and wait there for the spontaneous end^^09:48
piglettoShadowJK: do you mean that meter is inaccurate? I've drained battery to 2% and my jolla switched off09:48
piglettoShadowJK: so seems to me that it was ok09:48
ShadowJKNo I mean "battery needs a few charges and discharges before it works at full capacity"-thing is a myth09:49
chem|stthe 2% might be actually 15% the logic does not know from one cycle but the device powersoff09:49
chem|sthappened on n900, and if your calibration was off09:50
ggabrielShadowJK: i think that myth is so that people don't expect the meter to work properly until adjusted09:50
ggabrielalso, there are so many myths about batteries....09:50
chem|stShadowJK: well a myth with 5% truth, the batteries have an onboardlogic which is overly secure09:51
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chem|sttruth for those batteries is you will have the longest lifespan with charging above 30% and below 85%^^09:52
chem|stperfect fit for solarchargers...09:53
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ggabrielchem|st: i experienced a fair lifespan by charging only when below 20% until full in one charge most of the time09:53
celeron55another truth is that li-* batteries work best when not too warm09:53
ggabrieli'm happy with a battery that performs seamlessly for about a year09:53
chem|stggabriel: yeah we are not talking years....09:54
ggabrielceleron55: and not too cold :P09:54
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ggabrielchem|st: in the jolla context, i'll give them time to adjust power saving features09:54
ggabrielalhtough i was impressed with initial reports (with android off and whatnot)09:54
celeron55ggabriel: well, i guess too cold doesn't easily negatively affect the lifespan, but they won't give out much current 8)09:54
chem|stmy first LiPo still lasts... stored at 45% was in use for 3a in a row with exactly that charging behaviour09:54
ln-chem|st: are those percentages some kind of real, physical percentages? and how well do they correlate to what phones report to the user?09:55
ggabrielnever tried LiPo's09:55
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celeron55ln-: they should directly correspond, as phone measures capacity09:55
chem|stggabriel: LiPolymere? most phones have that09:56
piglettoggabriel: how to switch android off?09:56
ggabrielchem|st: i thought it was LiMH09:56
ggabrielpigletto: have access to terminal?09:56
piglettoggabriel: yes09:56
ggabrielthere's an aliendalvik.service that you can switch off with systemctl09:57
ggabrielsearch tmo's jolla ux thread09:57
ggabriel(i'm having a meeting in ~3 minutes, can't guarantee i'll find it)09:57
ln-celeron55: without further evidence i don't quite believe that e.g. 0% reported by phone would be the physical 0% which is bad for li-ion batteries.09:57
piglettoggabriel: ok, will look for this09:57
ggabrielpigletto: or plainly uninstall09:57
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chem|stln-: well the read percentage by a device can be a little off at times as it learns from cycles what is what, but for the battery it is real09:58
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ggabrielln-: that could be a bug though, battery doesn't report percentages09:58
celeron55the phone does skew it at the lower end, but i guess usually not that much09:58
celeron55ln-: in voltage it translates to something like "somewhat under 4 volts per cell"09:59
celeron55(depending on the exact chemistry though)09:59
atlazOh my damn. Traditional thursday pea-soup and pancake is digesting and making me sleepy10:02
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piglettoggabriel: systemctl stop aliendalvik.service seems to stopped this10:04
piglettowe will see10:04
ggabrielpigletto: you have powertop as well to help with power related issues10:04
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ggabriel"oh no, my battery only lasts 10 hours while mining bitcoins" :-D10:05
piglettoggabriel: seems I don't have powertop10:05
ggabrieloh, you may need to install. search same thread :)10:06
ggabrieli think w00t left instructions10:06
chem|stggabriel: the separator is a polymere10:06
ggabrielchem|st: yeah, you may be right10:06
piglettoggabriel: ok, i suppose that I need to add some extra repositories10:06
ggabrieli'm not up to date with bat tech10:06
piglettoggabriel: txh10:06
ggabriels/bat/batt/10:07
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chem|stif they wrote the correct terminology on nokia batteries the n900 bl5j is Li-ion - comes with advantages of cycle degradation10:08
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chem|stStskeeps: the handwriting layout is for chineseChars right?10:15
chem|stdoes it support more?10:15
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ShadowJKIs the battery held together by a metal container exterting pressure on its contents? If so, it's not LiPo. Is the battery more rectangular than cylindrical, does it lack a rigid metallic wall and is more like a bag, possibly surrounded by plastic shell? If so, LiPo10:18
Stskeeps.. handwriting layout?10:18
ShadowJK:P10:18
ShadowJKrest is mostly marketing10:18
tachikom1guess waht just arrived :)10:18
tachikom1*unpacking*10:18
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atlazAnyone got news on TheBootroo and his phone?10:19
atlazDid he commit suicide or get his phone? He is weirdly silent10:19
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ShadowJKatlaz; phone is on the way10:19
FryeI'd hope he got it =)10:19
tachikom1i guess he got it as well10:19
ShadowJKIt remains to be seen whether it will be delivered or if the fedex person will be playing hide and seek10:20
tachikom1lol10:20
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FryeAt least there was progress on the order status10:20
FryeThat seemed to do the trick10:20
jussi[11:01:02] <TheBootroo> will have it tomorow or saturday10:20
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Frye=)10:21
Milo-so the drama will finally come to an end?10:21
tachikom1mine was picked up by fedex yesterday evening and now arrived10:21
tachikom1not even a whole day10:21
jussinice10:21
TheBootrooit's being delivered today10:21
FryeWohoo10:21
TheBootroobut i'm traveling for work10:21
tachikom1TheBootroo: great :)10:21
TheBootroowill have i saturday just before i go in vacation10:21
chem|stStskeeps: yeah the kbd layout10:21
FryeWhat matters is that you should get it before you leave for holidays.10:22
TheBootroowill surely play with it in the train10:22
Frye:D10:22
tachikom1wow, it's light10:22
TheBootrooyeah10:22
TheBootrootachikom1: what about you ?10:22
tachikom1just unpacking it :)10:22
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TheBootrooyou were not too far behind me10:22
TheBootroocool10:22
TheBootrooi heard global sales just began10:22
tachikom1yes, guess our batch was sent the same time10:22
TheBootroomy best friend is ordering it10:22
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Triztwhy does the jolla shop jump between https/http ?10:23
TheBootrooBEST CHRISTMAS EVER10:23
tachikom1yes10:23
tachikom1well, 4 years ago i got my n900 for christmas10:23
Pnuuand it's not christmas yet!10:23
tachikom1similar :)10:23
Pnuu+even10:23
tachikom1for some it is now ;)10:23
TheBootrooThis year for Christmas, i have : The Jolla Phone, Qt5.2, QtCreator 3.0, Clang 3.4, hehe10:23
Trizttachikom1: I got it after newyear, wouldn't be surprised same thing will happen with fedex10:24
tachikom1TheBootroo: geekmas ;)10:25
TheBootroooh yeah10:25
tachikom1the worst time is now the charging before turning it on ....10:26
jussithis year for christmas I have a lost wallet and a bunch of debts :/10:26
zbenjamintachikom1: its precharged10:26
TheBootrootachikom1: not charged ?10:26
Fryetachikom1, if the battery is Li-anything you can just turn it on10:26
zbenjaminhehe ;)10:26
stephgtachikom1 yeah mine was at about 70% when I took it out of the box10:26
tachikom1i usually charge all devices fully before turning them on the first time10:27
leinirmodern batteries ship charged out of the factory... simply because waking them up from a complete decharche is an immense amount of work and consumers just won't do that ;)10:27
FryeThat is because li-X batteries pretty much must be stored at approx 70% of charge so those stay good.10:27
leinir*nods*10:27
tachikom1joll stickers ...10:27
tachikom1hrm, where do i put those now10:28
leinirtachikom1: *gasp* Your stickers are broken, they're supposed to say jolla, not joll! :O10:28
leinir*hides* ;)10:28
tachikom1lol, yeah10:28
tachikom1more likely my keyboard10:28
leiniryou missed an opportunity there, "loo, yeh, more likely my keybord" ;)10:29
tachikom1however, some sad moment as well, taking the sim card out of my loyal n90010:30
celeron55a very sad moment for phone keyboards10:31
cvpDamn, have anyone the same problems with the Email App.... i cant sending emails :( (no exchange!)10:32
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Accedoes jolla not support enterprise wpa?10:33
Pnuunope10:33
leinir"yet"10:33
celeron55is it just the UI or is there a driver issue?10:34
AJAX555so, are those phones going to post office or are they home delivery as they say in jolla shop?10:34
TheBootrooAcce: Soon (TM)10:35
tachikom1celeron55: only a matter of time until toh with keyboard will existe i hop10:37
AcceTheBootroo: heh10:37
Pnuuhop skip and jump10:37
ShadowJKAJAX555; my coworkers received theirs at the post office/service point10:37
Accewell, it's probably just the ui, if the backend uses wpa supplicant10:37
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cvphave anyone smtp / email sending problems ?10:38
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AJAX555ShadowJK: good, because I think that way is faster10:38
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ShadowJKBut who knows if they switched to fedex for .fi too10:39
stephgcvp yeah10:39
Accecvp: yes10:39
stephgcvp what do you see?10:39
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tachikom1ohkaaay10:40
cvpSyncroning... nothing mire10:40
tachikom1the sim card does not fit10:40
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cvpmore10:40
tachikom1i guess i need a smaller one ...10:40
Pnuutachikom1: yes, micro-sim10:40
RaimAcce: apparently WPA2 Enterprise is not uspported... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9205710:40
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cvpacce stephg , there is no fix over terminal possible ?10:41
AcceRaim: ok, let me see (for now I got connect to Uni network via web interface though)10:41
stephgcvp that's more or less what I see10:41
stephgbut it's probably down to my mail server and the combination of encryption and authentication10:42
Accecvp: I haven't really tried to dig into it yet10:42
TheBootrootachikom1: you can DIY, plenty of howto on youtube10:42
TheBootrooyou just need cisors10:42
TheBootrooscissors10:42
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RaimAcce: which works, but is not that secure...10:43
TheBootrootachikom1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u5-s63Dc2U10:43
cvphope the next update this yeahr will fix this ans some others problems10:43
AcceRaim: true.. But nice to know I can set it up with wpa_supplicant10:43
tachikom1yes, already watching TheBootroo10:44
cvpor go one mobilephone sho and let it cut for small money10:45
cvpshop10:45
RaimAcce: you can? so far I haven't heard that anyone succeeded.10:46
RaimAcce: although I did not try too hard myself yet, I mostly use it at home at the moment and in uni I used my laptop connection shared over USB networking. which was also fun to find out how to set that up ;)10:46
AcceRaim: I read too fast, didn't notice they said it's not working for them..10:47
AcceI guess I'll try the wpa supplicant config later10:48
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Bysmyyrhave someone any idea why "/" inode is 256, not 2 as normal11:08
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StskeepsBysmyyr: btrfs subvolume at a wild guess11:08
Bysmyyrmaybe because /home have same inode11:09
TheBootroothis->jollaPhone ()->isDelivered ()  == true11:10
TheBootroowill seem long to me to wait going back home11:11
TheBootroostill 1.5 day11:11
Nicd-TheBootroo is getting his phone?11:12
stephgcool11:12
stephgTheBootroo told you you'd get it before xmas!11:12
TheBootrooNicd-: delivered @home, /me back home saturday morning, then leave again for Xmas11:12
TheBootrooYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !11:13
ggabrielTheBootroo: you're famous11:13
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Pnuu"I wonder what happened"11:20
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VenemoTheBootroo: what up?11:25
TheBootrooVenemo: mah phone just got delivered11:25
ggabrieljolla fix the delivery, well done :)11:25
VenemoTheBootroo: congrats :)11:26
StskeepsTheBootroo: finally, now you'll shush? :P11:26
VenemoTheBootroo: what'z your orderid?11:26
TheBootroo20000254911:26
ggabrielStskeeps: you getting yours soon too? :)11:26
Stskeepsggabriel: we'll see11:26
TheBootrooStskeeps: now i'll stfu11:26
TheBootrooand play with it11:26
ggabrielTheBootroo: but let us know what you think11:27
TheBootrooyou have to notice i did not come back on irc to whine since i got my fedex tracking page11:27
TheBootrooas i promised11:27
VenemoTheBootroo: so, this is the day you will stop whining on the channel? awesome :)11:27
ggabrielTheBootroo: i have noticed11:27
petantikSo, has anyone else seen an issue, where the phone says the sim card had been removed and you need to restart?11:27
TheBootrooVenemo: i stopped whinning since tuesday11:27
ggabrieli didn't notice that you promised that tho11:27
Stskeepspetantik: is the sim card in any way loose?11:28
TheBootrooggabriel: i said i'll stop whinning when i'll have update11:28
TheBootrooi got update, tracking and phone11:28
petantikStskeeps: I don't think so. it seems to happen nearly every morning around the same time.11:28
petantikStskeeps: But  it could just be some confirmation bias, since it's always in my pocket11:28
ln-petantik: o/11:28
petantikln-: \o11:29
VenemoTheBootroo: great!11:29
pp_petantik: I did before I switched to a factory-cut micro-sim (vs. a badly DIY one)11:29
VenemoTheBootroo: which kind of preorder was it? 100€ / 40€ / 0€?11:29
petantikpp_: this was an actual microsim popout11:29
TheBootrooVenemo: 0€11:29
VenemoTheBootroo: then how come you got it before me?11:30
TheBootroopreordered on 22 may11:30
TheBootrooplaced checkout on 27 nov11:30
VenemoTheBootroo: so what? I had a 100€ preorder11:30
TheBootrooVenemo: maybe you're punished by Santa for some bad behavior in the last year ?11:30
TheBootrooXD11:30
Venemowell I chose the 100€ option because  I knew I would be impatient and wanted to receive it sooner11:30
petantikdid the preorder deposit affect priority?11:31
Stskeepsi think to be honest that it ships in the order that you ordered it in11:31
TheBootrooVenemo: i'm not sure le priority has been absolutely respected11:31
Venemoapparently nobody in jolla gives a shit about priority11:31
ggabrielVenemo: it was said that priority had problems11:31
Venemowhatever. if it's here by christmas it's OK for me11:31
ggabrielso they chose to go with a method that worked11:31
ggabrielVenemo: you in .fi?11:32
chem|stVenemo: some people way after me got it before me... if I trust that google doc11:32
ggabrielchem|st: that google doc has at least one error ;-)11:32
chem|stggabriel: your entry?11:32
ggabrielchem|st: nope, somebody else's i noticed11:32
ggabrielmy entry won't get updated as i got tired of it11:33
chem|stwell I updated to delivered for their sake...11:33
chem|stwohho down to 60% in two hours.. lets see if I can have it down to 40 in one...11:34
ggabrielshut down the trojan horse11:34
Venemoggabriel: I'm not in .fi, no11:34
ggabrielVenemo: ok, best of luck then11:34
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ggabrielVenemo: i chose yesterday to assume it will come after xmas (order 36xx)11:35
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minimecWell... I am waiting for an answer by care@jolla.com for my order 5xx(!) to switzerland...11:36
hene-there is no setting at Jolla where you can determine time when to get emails (eg. 8am to 16pm)11:38
hene-?11:38
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piglettohene-: locale maybe? google for 'jolla locale'11:45
fluxI seriously doubt locale affects that11:45
ln-i am pretty sure locale has nothing to do with it11:45
fluxfrom what I've browsed the settings, there is no such setting11:45
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Andy80hi!11:46
fluxbut, it should be possible to hack it in! by adding/removing firewall rules that prevent access to the mail server. such rules would need to be added/removed by a daemon, assuming there is no cron available.11:46
fluxthough it would really prevent all access to remote email outside the time window :)11:47
Andy80a couple of questions about developer mode: 1) once enabled id (including SSH), what is the username? 2) why if I attach the USB cable to my PC (Ubuntu 13.04) it doesn't load the usb network interface?11:47
fluxandy80, 1) nemo 2) dunno11:47
tachikom1yay,cut me a sim card11:48
leinirsnip-snip11:48
tachikom1biggest problem was getting printer to work for printing out some shape11:48
tachikom1now - trying to enter my wlan passphrase and can;t find the space key on the on screen keyboard ...11:48
tachikom1ah, 'en' is written on it, lol11:49
leinirbasically, where it normally is ;)11:50
tachikom1yes :)11:51
VenemoI'm afraid that the courier companies will shut down during the holidays11:51
tachikom1oops problem with account creation ...11:51
Venemoso even if jolla sends it on like 23rd I won't receive it until new year11:51
fluxoculd still ship. don't lose your hope! hope is all you have!11:52
fluxs/ship/get it/11:52
piglettoln-: right, I misunderstood your question11:54
Andy80flux, thanks :)11:54
Andy80Venemo, you're still in time... it took less than 24 hours for me to have the package delivered11:55
Andy80they shipped yesterday evening11:55
VenemoAndy80: really? how far was the distance?11:56
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smokexyou sure? this time of year seems like the worst time for courier/shipping companies to shut down11:58
Nicd-clock app downloaded 5300 times11:58
tachikom1mh, i can't create a jolla account to access the store11:59
chem|sttachikom1: you have your account already...12:00
chem|stwhy you want another?12:00
tachikom1di i?12:00
tachikom1do i?12:00
chem|sttachikom1: if you ordered a device you have one yes12:01
chem|stthe same account as on jolla.com12:01
tachikom1ah :)12:01
chem|styou can login on jolla.com and see your device listed as soon as you used the store once12:02
fluxnicd-, I guess that's a safe estimate of the # of people that have received the phone. unless the numbers are fudged..12:02
chem|stflux: count me ten times... on all jolla apps!12:03
fluxchem|st, you've redownloaded all jolla-apps 10 times?12:03
chem|stat least12:03
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fluxwell, good for you I suppose ;)12:04
Nicd-yeah I think you can safely substract at least 1000 from it12:04
Nicd-plenty of people try things out and reset their phone12:04
fluxthey could just count downloads by distinct jolla users12:04
chem|stwe should be around 3000 people with phones now12:04
flux(but I guess they don't)12:04
fluxof course, people should have more than one account12:04
fluxuh I mean could12:04
fluxprobably the numbers also increase when they internally test stuff12:05
tachikom1well, that now also explains why my username was already taken ...12:05
tachikom1... by me :)12:05
chem|sthehe12:05
chem|styes12:05
fluxI wonder if jolla is going to offer some (cryptographically) safe storage of contacts/installed apps/settings/etc some time in the future. apple experience, but safer!12:05
chem|stflux: encryption is in the works afaik12:06
fluxI actually meant some form of 'cloud' backup, of course on-device encryption would be nice as well12:07
leiniryes please - cloud, not fog12:07
fluxcould be implemented already with, say, ecryptfs..12:07
chem|stflux: lol apple? their cloud is to collect userdata12:07
tachikom1mh, the shop frontpage is confusing12:07
fluxchem|st, exactly, so I was pointing out it could be done without that part12:07
fluxI do find it a very compelling feature that you can nuke your device and get a new one with everything already in it12:08
chem|stI'd love to have integrated owncloud and $DAV support...12:08
chem|sttachikom1: yeah it is...12:08
fluxas far as I know mozilla does browser bookmark&etc synchronization without them having the possibility of peeking in12:08
fluxrequires you to keep your password safe, of course12:08
tachikom1i jus see an tv advertisement feturing hal2000 .. wtf12:09
tachikom1telling me that i need to download some app12:09
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chem|stf-droid <312:10
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chem|stfor now the only shop I will download androids from....12:10
chem|stwhat happens when I uninstall yandex store?12:11
FryeDon't =)12:11
Stskeepsandroid support gets uninstalled12:11
sdjaynathat will remove android support at the moment12:11
FryeJust add something next to it.12:11
tachikom1"enabling developer mode" :)12:11
ggabrieltenes gas/electricidad?12:12
chem|sthmm a import contacts from file showed up... in settings apps people12:12
ggabrielsorry wc12:12
chem|stStskeeps: sdjayna what I thought as it gets installed with it12:13
tachikom1there it is12:13
tachikom1the only app i really need12:13
tachikom1"terminal" :)12:13
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tachikom1is there any way to access the store via commandline?12:14
tachikom1like zypper/apt-get12:14
chem|stpkcon install zypper12:14
Nicd-pkcon is installed by default12:14
tachikom1thx12:15
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tachikom1mh, my first impression is - confusing12:15
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tachikom1but not in a bad way12:15
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Pnuutachikom1: that'll pass :-)12:16
tachikom1i have the terminal, everything else is not that important :)12:17
Wntabout contacsd consuming to's of CPU time: yesterday when it was consuming ~80% CPU time I tried killing it but it didn't respond12:17
tachikom1now just get some bt keyboard paired and ready i am12:17
Wnt"killall -9 contacsd" did kill it, but it immediatelly restarted and continued to consume CPU time12:18
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tachikom1mh, scrolling up in the terminal, dows it work?12:18
chem|stchange settings to scroll12:18
Wnttachikom1: select drag mode from the settings12:18
tachikom1ahhhh12:19
vbmithrwhat is SSU ?12:19
vbmithrtachikom1: confused as well :)12:19
tachikom1ssh is preinstalled, i like it12:19
mcfriskhmbh, N9 has bunch of files saved from email etc in /home/user which is not visible with mass storage mount, that's why bunch of pictures, music etc were not copied to my jolla. Need to mv all of the to MyDocs first on N9, then rsync to PC, then to jolla.12:19
MMorihttp://hs13.snstatic.fi/webkuva/sarjis/560/1305762665686?ts=264 was this here already?12:19
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Wntanyone know workarounds for the contactsd CPU hogging? e.g. would using offline mode for all accounts prevent the problem?12:20
WntMMori: :D12:20
nadrielvbmithr: Secure su?12:21
vbmithrI can't install zypper because "Fatal error: Authentication failed (is SSU set up correctly?)"12:21
MMoriJolla in Fingerpori, this must be a big deal12:21
vbmithrGuess I have to add dev repos or something like that12:21
nadrielhttps://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/lisa98/full_papers/thorpe/thorpe.pdf12:21
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Stskeepsvbmithr: are you on 1.0.1.1212:22
Stskeepsand got a jolla account12:22
vbmithrI have got a jolla account, but12:22
vbmithrNo idea what version I'm on12:22
nadrielMMori, : D12:22
Stskeepscheck about product12:22
vbmithrhough12:22
vbmithr1.0.0.512:22
Stskeepsokay12:23
Stskeepsyou might want to update your device12:23
vbmithrI see12:23
vbmithrHow do I do that ?12:24
Stskeepsgo into about product in settings -> system settings, pulley menu -> check for updates12:24
Stskeepsand when found, update device12:24
vbmithrsays I'm up to date12:26
vbmithrI'm trying to use activate "Allow dev updates"…12:26
Stskeepsah, you should not do that..12:27
vbmithrok12:27
vbmithrWell, I did not do it :)12:27
Stskeepsok12:27
vbmithrIt says "host require authentication" anyway12:27
Stskeepsyou might as well just factory reset your device by now, or type in foo@sales and a random password in the 'allow dev updates' box12:27
Stskeepsand reboot12:27
chem|sttachikom1: as Stskeeps just says DO NOT activate dev updates12:28
vbmithrand that would help with the upgrades ?12:28
Stskeepsvbmithr: probably yes12:29
vbmithrOk, let's check that out12:29
Andy80do you know how do I install an .apk on Jolla? I'm trying to follow these instructions http://jollafin.blogspot.fi/2013/11/play-store-for-jolla.html but I don't know how to install the things at point 9 and 1012:30
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MMoriAndy click the links and let them download12:30
MMoriafter download, click the downloaded files -> installed12:30
Andy80MMori, I downloaded them, but I don't know how to access these files once donwloaded12:31
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MMoriswipe up from outside of the bottom of the screen to open up the downloaded files12:31
MMorithat will open up the "notifications"12:32
MMorishould be found there.12:32
Andy80oh12:32
Andy80sorry :)12:32
MMorino problem, it takes a while ^^12:32
MMoriPlay Store on Jolla is like a candy store12:33
atlazMMori: did you test netflix did it work okay for you?12:34
MMoriatlaz: yes I tried it out and it worked fine12:34
atlazNice12:34
MMorididn't try multiple movies but the ones I tried worked well12:34
Guest97399is anyone else having problems with the email client and a gmail account? I see odd things, for instance sometimes new empty emails appear in Deleted Items12:37
Guest97399and sending fails more often than not12:38
cvpSending over Strao and Arcor is not working, is normal :( hope there will fix veeeery fast.12:39
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Guest97399now empty emails keep popping up in Drafts too :(12:40
Guest97399whenever there is a "Problem with sync"12:40
vbmithrStskeeps: working12:43
vbmithrStskeeps: Interesting that the updates12:43
vbmithrwere blocked for some reason12:44
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pp_MMori: paid apps may not work :-)12:45
pp_I lost 0.77e to amazing alex ;_;12:45
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MMoripp_: someone said earlier that those can be remote installed from browser. I haven't tested12:46
atlazpp_: my in-app-purchases worked atleast12:47
pp_E/AndroidRuntime( 2314): *** FATAL EXCEPTION IN SYSTEM PROCESS: PackageManager12:47
pp_E/AndroidRuntime( 2314): java.lang.NullPointerException12:47
atlazOn a triplog software12:47
pp_E/AndroidRuntime( 2314): at android.os.Parcel.readException(Parcel.java:1431)12:47
pp_don't think reporting would do much good :-)12:47
MMoriyeah12:47
pp_hill climbing racer did lose ads and give me 150000 coins12:47
pp_(did take a restart to notice them, tho)12:48
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ggabrielso.... we'll have a together.jolla.com to vote on features and stuff like that apparently12:48
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pp_suppose the developer can choose a variety of anti-piracy countermeasures12:48
pp_and the more strict ones are unlikely to work :-)12:50
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tobiskioh, my beanie arrived today12:52
ggabrieltobiski: \o/12:52
chem|stmtp is the devil... some like all 300 files one does not read well and needs to get skipped12:52
chem|stand for fsck sake why does mobiledata turn it self on every now and then?12:53
MMorichem|st: have never happened to me12:53
MMori*has12:53
chem|stMMori: skipping files or mdata?12:55
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MMorimdata12:55
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chem|stlibmtp error: could not get file from device (I have that with all mtp devices)12:59
jussiOk, so to make all you non finns jealous, I received my Permanent (p) residence permit for Finland today \o/12:59
Stskeepsjussi: congrats12:59
chem|stI will start rsyncing again...12:59
jussithanks Stskeeps!12:59
chem|stjussi: grats!12:59
chem|stStskeeps: .ssh in home ok? authorized_keys and stuff?12:59
Stskeepsi think so13:00
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atlazjussi: whats a Permanent residence permit?13:00
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chem|st10MB/s via usb is painful + that mtp fsckup...13:00
jussiatlaz: it means I can live here like a citizen, with the 1 exception of voting rights13:00
atlazohkay13:00
jussiatlaz: permanently...13:01
Stskeepsjussi: heh, i can't even vote for danish pariliament13:01
jussi(for people married to finns it goes 1 year, 3 years, permanent)13:01
sharpnelijussi: Gz. Though with name "Jussi" I kinda assumed you already were a Finn :D13:01
ggabrielsharpneli: he changed his name to convince the authorities easier13:02
vbmithrIs it possible to reboot the device ?13:02
jussisharpneli: most people do. I look like one, have a decent finnish accent when speaking finnish, and have lived here long enough to know most of the customs...13:02
jussi(although most finns can tell Im a foreigner from the accent, but its better than a lot of foreigners)13:02
MMorijussi: do you find this amusing? http://hs13.snstatic.fi/webkuva/sarjis/560/1305762665686?ts=26413:02
jussiMMori: I do :)13:03
MMoriWelcome to country! :)13:03
jussiMMori: I have however been here for 8.5 years...13:03
MMoriYeah, I kinda got that you've been here longer13:03
AntiHawkhi everyone: again I have some problems: I've just lost all sounds from android apps13:03
AntiHawkany ideas13:04
jussiAntiHawk: tried turning it off and on again? :P :P13:04
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jussi(sorry...)13:04
Nicd-MMori: hee hee hee hee13:05
AntiHawkyep and I have plugged audio jack in and out and tried to use bluetooth stereo headset also, native sailfish sounds are fine...13:05
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jussiMMori: I can actually go get citizen ship as soon as I go get my language skills accepted by some authority and do the application. pretty much just paper (and money) work now13:06
sharpnelijussi: What is your native language btw?13:06
jussisharpneli: english (Australian)13:06
MMorijussi: ^^ Sounds good!13:07
Jopenot bad if you've managed to master relatively accent free finnish coming from an english speaking background.13:07
Pnuu"hello you all bruces an sheilas!"13:07
jussiPnuu: ...13:07
Pnuu8-)13:07
jussiJope: it certainly isnt perfect, but its "decent"13:08
Jopegreat13:08
MMoriwell Finnish is a difficult language13:08
jussiand some words are... "hard"13:08
Jope"dashing through the bush / in a rusty holden ute" ..13:08
* Jope dodges13:08
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Dima^which one?13:08
Jopeour ng and ae oe ie diftongs13:08
MMorivessapaperirullatelineellänsäkään?13:09
jussiDima^: anything with an r followed by a hard consonant. ie. Terttu13:09
Jopehääyöaie13:09
Pnuuhttp://rikocb.tumblr.com/post/65128986914/english-a-dog-swedish-what-english-the13:09
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Dima^ah ok :)13:09
MMoriJope: :D13:09
jussiMMori: that one isnt so hard once you read it through a few times13:09
PnuuJope: riiuuyöaie13:09
atlazIm bi-lingual (swedish-finnish) and i have the disadvantage to not be able to write either one properly :P13:09
Dima^That why Perkele is the first word to learn13:09
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JopeI'd have thought vittu13:09
AntiHawkspeaking of finnish language, somethimes it's funny to use too: http://i.imgur.com/2vhgoGN.png13:09
Jopejulsex kommer tillbaka13:10
AntiHawkspeaking of meanings13:10
jussiLöyly used to be hard, but now moving vowel to vowel is ok13:10
PnuuAntiHawk: hah, that rocks13:10
Dima^I'm bilingual finnish-russian :)13:10
jussiAntiHawk: yeah, seen that one before13:10
jussiDima^: trilingual...13:10
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jussiyou seem to have english ok also13:10
Dima^Though finnish is better than russian13:10
atlazEveryone in Finland has good english13:11
atlazAtleast if your under 3013:11
Dima^yea.. but not so fluently13:11
sharpneliAntiHawk: Also http://i.imgur.com/cl7xQk8.png someone should make the english caption version of that :D13:11
ln-atlaz: except those who don't13:11
jussihehe13:11
jussias ln- says...13:11
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AntiHawkI just recently  someone should make the english caption version of that :D13:11
Pnuusharpneli: aargh :-D13:11
atlazThe first english i learned was "I love you Brooke". My grandmother had me watching the bold & the beautiful while she had me for daycare when i was 4-5 years old13:12
atlazAlso "RIDGE, NO!" was a common sentence i used alot13:12
Jope:-D13:12
MMoriatlaz: Poor you13:12
Jopelolz13:12
Pnuuouch13:12
atlazI still remember when Throne shot Ridge in the head13:12
Dima^atlaz: :D13:12
atlaz*Thorne13:12
pviljaatlaz: so i wasn't the only one :D13:12
Jope:-D13:12
atlazand Taylor died!13:13
atlazno, Caroline13:13
Pnuua game of thornes13:13
jussioh dear. this conversation has degenerated significantly13:13
AntiHawkstatus check13:13
atlazHey, its Frida.. no wait13:13
* jussi goes back to work13:13
Jope[chuckling intensifies]13:13
MMoriI remember the time they tried to do voice overs in Finnish for Bold and the beautiful. Ridge said "Äiti. Minulla on kamala päänsärky"13:13
MMoriThat was terrible.13:13
atlazBut we Finns learn english quite easy since they don't do voice overs that much here13:14
MMoritrue13:14
Stskeepsat least you guys aren't discussing preorders13:14
Stskeeps:P13:14
MMoriStskeeps: so how are the preorders doing?13:15
Stskeepsi wouldn't know13:15
Stskeeps:P13:15
MMoriwe got distracted for a while13:15
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jussisomeone get TheBootroo in here :P13:15
MMorinah, he's done waiting, his phone arrived today :P13:16
TheBootroojussi: he's here13:16
MMorialthough he hasn't got his hands on it yet13:16
vbmithrHow to be root, by the way ?13:16
MMoriI assume13:16
Triztis there any benefits for someone who finilizes a preorder after the web shop open for everyone?13:16
vbmithrzypper wants to be run as root13:16
Fryevbmithr, devel-su13:16
Joperun pkcon instead :-)13:16
vbmithrwell, if pkcon is enough…13:17
jussiTrizt: I guess the beanie or red other half thing13:17
Triztjussi: thats just for the 100 eur preorders, but those with a 0 eur preorder13:17
AntiHawkI got android sounds back: installed sound volume booster pro from google play and boosted volume, I guess that android volume was muted?13:18
atlazAntiHawk: aaa. yes. I read somewhere that if sounds go to minimum on android apps you need to increase it by software13:19
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AntiHawk:D13:19
TriztStskeeps: makes it any difference for one who made a 0eur preorder compared with other web shoppers who didn't make a pre order?13:19
mcfriskAnyone know how to trigger a power key press event from command line to shut down or wakeup display?13:19
AntiHawkBTW, what has been inveted at this point for tethering over WLAN?13:19
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atlazNone yet. I read on talk.maemo.org that you could enable hotspot via terminal, but my sk1llz aren't on the level, that i could find out13:20
atlazSomeone talked something about ifconfigs and firewalls and whatnot13:20
atlazhere on #jollamobile13:20
atlazMe, im more of a push button - receive bacon kinda guy13:21
TheBootroohttp://jolla.com/media/images/jolla_cart_01.png13:21
TheBootroototally love the yellow/green "Lime" OH13:22
AntiHawkiptables is present I see, that could offer masquerading13:22
atlazMan id kill for a black TOH13:22
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TheBootrooAntiHawk: should be also achievable using  ConnMan DBus API13:22
TheBootrooatlaz: Brown Coffee is nice too13:22
atlazAntiHawk: yeah, iptables. Thats what the nerds were talking about13:23
atlazTheBootroo: but the coolest color would be olive drab with a military style ambience13:23
TheBootroono need to go into iptable imho13:23
TheBootrooConnMan has higher level api13:23
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TurskiTheBootroo: it offers the iptables stuff too?13:23
AntiHawkTheBootroo: I'm not familar with ConnMan BDus API, but I'll take a look13:24
TheBootrooTurski: it offers tethering at least, that's what you want13:24
atlazAntiHawk: if you get it going, please post somekind of tutorial somewhere13:24
tobiskidoes jolla's Files app show symbol links? I created symbol link in the home folder pointing to my sdcard but can't see it13:25
AntiHawkatlaz: Will do if I get somewhere with it :)13:25
TheBootroohere is the ConnMan api doc http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/connman/connman.git/plain/doc/technology-api.txt?id=HEAD13:25
TheBootrooabout Technology13:26
tobiskils /home/nemo in terminal shows the link13:26
TheBootrooTechnology is what handles different types of network adapters (wired, wireless, cellular etc)13:26
tobiskioh... linked it to /tun/user/.... :D13:27
TheBootroojust find the right Technology item, set Tethering to true and put some ui to enter TetheringIdentifier and  TetheringPassphrase13:27
TheBootrooand you're done13:27
TheBootrooa nice Jolla app in QML using QtDbus should be easy to do13:27
TurskiTheBootroo: cool13:27
Turskii would have done that with iproute2 and iwconfig and iptables and... :)13:28
pp_suppose you can prototype with dbus-send etc.13:28
TheBootrooTurski: and you may have broken ConnMan proper managemebt13:28
Turskipp_: qdbus is a nice tool13:28
TheBootroopp_: sure13:28
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TheBootroobut yeah qdbus is fine13:29
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AntiHawkTurski: that also what I would have done, but I was thinking also about native connection manager going haywire13:29
Turskibut i'm still missing the DCOP from KDE3 :(13:29
TheBootrooTurski: wut ? DCOP wasn't that fine compared to DBus13:30
Turskiit was much simpler than DBUS13:30
TheBootrooand soon we'll have dbus inside linux kernel, much more powerful and fast13:30
TurskiTheBootroo: well, at least it was easier to mess with13:30
TheBootrooTurski: simpler maybe, but not as flexible13:30
TheBootrooand QtDbus api is really nice to use, a real pleasure to dev with it13:31
TheBootrooas soon as i have my phone in hand i'll do a tethering config app for Connman13:31
pp_hmn, don't see connman in dbus13:31
pp_ com.jolla.Connectiond yes13:31
TheBootrooi already worked with ConnMan and Qt, won't be too hard13:31
TheBootroopp_: session bus13:31
chem|stMMori: gps-lookup turns mdata on, for what reason ever13:31
TheBootroonet.connman13:31
TheBootrooiirc13:32
TheBootroowell maybe jolla changed the service name13:32
TheBootroobut it's connman, that have been confirmed13:32
pp_ah, --system13:33
TheBootroodon't lookup by service name, use Interface name instead13:33
AntiHawkI'm waiting to see tethering app at jolla store soon :) My guess is that is on list somewhere already13:33
AntiHawkevery other smartphone platform has it13:33
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TheBootroosearch which service implements net.connman.technology13:33
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AntiHawkSome script will do until that point13:33
TheBootrooAntiHawk: don't worry, i havae my phone saturday, app proposed on monday ;-)13:33
PnuuAntiHawk: I'm waiting it to be built-in feature13:34
atlazIt should be released as a built-in feature in January13:34
TheBootrooi'm quite a mad-coder13:34
Turskiis there a wey to integrate into system settings?13:34
TheBootrooTurski: surely13:34
TheBootroobut yet undocumented13:34
Turskiyep13:34
TheBootrooshould come Soon(TM)13:34
Turskiso probably now allowed in harbour :P13:35
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Turskis/now/not/13:35
AntiHawkTheBootroo: I was thinking about career as developer (.net) 4 years ago, I'm pretty happy that I choose to be sysadmin :)13:36
pp_[nemo@localhost bin]$ qdbus --system net.connman /net/connman/technology/wifi net.connman.Technology.GetProperties13:36
pp_Tethering: false13:36
TheBootrooAntiHawk: i'm professional  C++/Qt/QML and proud of it13:37
TheBootroopp_: just set it to true13:37
TheBootrooand adapt  TetheringIdentifier and  TetheringPassphrase13:38
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TheBootrooin order for it to be discoverable13:38
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jake9xxatlaz: feel free to get sources of jolla-settings-sdk, you can study settings stuff from those13:38
jake9xxTurski: ^13:39
jake9xxeven13:39
AntiHawkTheBootroo: I only reading basics to C++ to develop PSU for my custom car electronics :D13:39
smokexmany people make a qml wrapper for QSettings13:39
smokexothers like to make their own .ini or xml based implementation13:39
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chem|stok seems like android apps keep running in background... how to get that off?13:41
korshoot them in the face13:41
Stskeepsget one of those app managers that you can get for android13:41
Stskeepsvery handy13:41
pp_heh, /usr/lib/connman/test/enable-tethering13:41
AntiHawkAnother guestion: have someone come up with solution to install payed apps from google play13:42
AntiHawkThere is Geocache app that is must have to me :)13:43
cybettechem|st: about roadmap - noted and let's see what we can do13:43
pp_meh: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: net.connman.Error.PermissionDenied: Permission denied13:43
ggabrielcybette: shop is open, you can get your family jollas now :-)13:43
korAntiHawk: does installing backuped apps work?13:44
jake9xxpp_: try as root? you need DBUS_SESSION_BUS address from 'nemo' config tho13:44
pp_root yes13:44
AntiHawkkor: do you mean backups from native android device that I have?13:45
koryeah13:45
korcan you try restoring them?13:45
koror does that work for paid apps even on android devices13:46
cybetteggabriel: yay! but i'm also waiting to complete my 2nd wave pre-order that i already paid 100€13:46
Turskijake9xx: ah, goot13:46
Turskid13:46
AntiHawkI have to try it out :)13:47
ggabrielcybette: :S13:47
AntiHawkbyt later13:47
AntiHawk*but13:47
chem|stcybette: ok13:47
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chem|sthow do I terminate all android apps running? do I need to hack a button for that or does the compatibility layer go to deep sleep when nothing is shown as cover?13:48
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ggabrielimho it'd be nice to have an acl on/off switch in settings13:49
MMorichem|st: good to know. hasn't happened to me yet13:49
pp_woot13:50
pp_[root@localhost test]# ./enable-tethering wifi 1 string:foo13:50
pp_Enabling wifi tethering13:50
Stskeepsdoes it work? :P13:50
ggabrielpp_: nice :)13:50
nanderShop down *again*13:50
chem|stMMori: what happened to me is that I was unable to create accounts when both wifi and mdata are active...13:50
atlaznander: it was pp_, blame him!13:50
chem|stnander: hickup not down13:50
pp_well, my mac doesn't like the wpa2 password foo, too short13:50
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chem|stat least few seconds ago13:50
pp_but there is a ssid 1 now13:50
chem|ststalled on updating13:50
Stskeepspp_: it shows up as a real AP?13:50
atlazpp_: you better start writing a tutorial!13:51
tachikom1so how do i beco;e root or set  tje root  pasword?13:51
chem|sttachikom1: on settings dev you set a password13:51
atlazWho was it that hosted elinux.org? AL13N_work? We need to get the tethering-info up there13:51
chem|stthat is for user nemo13:51
tachikom1oh13:51
tobiskitachikom1: are you sure you're in condition to handle root priviledges? :D13:52
chem|stas nemo you write "devel-su"13:52
chem|stsame password again13:52
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chem|statlaz: most people go to tmo... post there...13:52
atlazchem|st: sure, but it's nice to have place where everything importat is on one page13:53
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chem|statlaz: there will be "one-page" on wiki.mo13:53
pp_there's something wonky here13:53
Stskeepswell, it shows the AP but i can't connect, at least13:53
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Turskipp_: that looks too easy13:54
TheBootrooTurski: that's because ConnMan api is really high level and handles tethering from scratch internally13:55
pp_hmn so13:56
ln-the maps would seem to be online-only? will there be an offline option?13:56
pp_[root@localhost test]# ./enable-tethering wifi jollajolla string:deadbeefdeadbeefdead13:56
pp_and the passphrase is with string:13:56
pp_but without it it doesn't accept it13:56
pp_I was able to associate but no internet through it13:56
MMoriOk, so the gps-lookup does turn on mobile data..13:56
ggabrielln-: online only, tile caching13:56
ggabrielln-: you can make your wish (i'll do the same)13:56
TheBootroopp_: what about putting quotes around it ?13:56
MMoriso it's no gps for me until it's fixed13:57
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ggabrielMMori: can you switch off agps?13:57
MMorigps can be turned off yes13:57
ggabrielMMori: i mean agps, not gps (like you can in the n9)13:58
Pnuuhaven't found agps switching13:58
ggabrielpresumably, without agps you don't need data13:58
ggabrielactually, not sure the n9 has that13:58
StskeepsMMori: there's something about that we cannot do SUPL connections over wifi or something like that13:58
MMoriggabriel: don't really know13:58
Stskeepsit's a little unclear if it's a bug or a feature..13:58
Stskeeps:P13:58
pp_ok13:58
pp_I think I'm wifi-tethered now13:58
ggabrielMMori: i think it makes sense to switch on data, not that it will use data13:58
TheBootroopp_: good13:58
MMoriStskeeps: well it must be clearly stated that the program will switch to mobile data.13:59
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ggabrielMMori: it just connects to your carrier's agps servers, they should be configured properly13:59
pp_packet loss is horrible13:59
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tachikom1chem|st: i haad  to enable root ssh access  to set  the passwd13:59
tachikom1i was sure i was not asked before13:59
Turskitachikom1: wut?13:59
Turskitachikom1: you should use devel-su14:00
MMoriggabriel: thanks for explaining, didn't really know that before.14:00
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ggabrielMMori: assuming gps is just for coordinates and you aren't talking about maps, that is :-)14:00
Turskitachikom1: and the password is set at the developer mode settings14:00
ggabrielMMori: i can confirm that if you are roaming, as long as you tell the phone "don't use data", the phone will eventually get a gps lock, without spending a cent/penny14:01
ggabrielMMori: this is one of the reasons why i want offline maps :d14:01
MMoriyeah, I'm really looking for offline maps14:01
MMoriThat's one of the reasons why I liked my nokia, it came with offline maps.14:02
MMoriAnd those were enough for me, I'm sure some of you would disagree with that :P14:02
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tachikom1i enabled developr  mode. then i ran.devel-su. that asked for a password. i went back to developer settings and enabled root ssh access. now i could set a password and then.got root in the terminal using devel-su14:04
* ggabriel looking forward to together.jolla.com to vote for features!14:04
chem|stggabriel: it connects to supl of nokia... at least that is what it is set to14:04
ggabrielchem|st: my point exactly, so that's agps14:04
chem|stggabriel: no need for mdata though14:04
ggabrielbut if you are roaming (or switch off data from settings), it shouldn't, and it'll take longer to get a lock14:04
smokexpersonally I'm not a fan of paying rediculous data transfer charges due to downloading maps on the fly. I'm sure you'd agree MMori14:05
chem|stggabriel: it activates mdata14:05
ggabrielchem|st: uhm... i'll have to test it when i'm abroad (and get the device)14:05
ggabrielor maybe it's a bug and it will get fixed before i even get a chance14:05
chem|stonly wifi and location were on, then looking for gps message pops in and mdata gets active!14:05
ggabrielchem|st: what you describe is exactly what happens in the n9 whenever i want a gps lock14:06
ggabrielfor any application14:06
chem|stthere needs to be some work on networking I guess as I could not setup accounts with both active14:06
ggabrieli never tried, however, to switch off data from settings (only for the roaming when you see a warning)14:06
ggabrielchem|st: also, yeah, it's bad that you go mobile data when in wifi :)14:07
chem|stggabriel: for n9 it asks for internet and is ok with wifi...14:07
chem|stiirc14:07
MMorismokex: agreed!14:07
ggabrielno, you're right14:07
ggabrielunless the icons are lying14:07
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tachikom1just checked. disabling root ssh access also disables the previosly  set passwd14:08
chem|stso now no single app is open that needs internet (settings + fingerterm), I wake the device and it is asking for internet...14:09
chem|sttachikom1: yeah forgot about that... sure!14:09
sremesthe enable-tethering script seems to work fine here too, tested with my tablet14:09
tachikom1now grying to add a mail account14:09
Stskeepssremes: you were able to connect?14:09
atlazWhat script, where, me too14:10
pp_connman-test-1.15+git22-1.8.1.armv7hl14:10
pp_-> /usr/lib/connman/test14:10
atlazim too dumb to follow14:11
sremesStskeeps: yes, connected the tablet to the jolla tethered hotspot, and internet seems to work well14:11
jake9xxsremes: cool!14:11
sremesI happened to download the script separately from the connman git, before pp_ pointed to the connman-test package14:12
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pp_now trying to make connman love the usb port as well (it's blacklisted, at least)14:14
tachikom1do i need to install a mail app first?14:14
sremesthere seemed to be something about the script complaining about "permission denied" or passphrases, but not sure about the logic of those14:14
sremesI think the wifi needed to be enabled in the settings first14:15
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Stskeepspp_: for good reasons fwiw :P14:16
Stskeepspp_: connman hates usb gadget with a passi0n14:16
tachikom1yes looks like it14:16
TheBootroopp_: someone from jolla said they disactivated usb in connman, that made me sad too14:16
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pp_ok, manual ip + iptables -t nat will have to suffice :-)14:16
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TheBootroohow to install qdbus in emulator ?14:21
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tachikom1the mail cient just says updating forever....14:24
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marcelluxhi. there used to be a chat room for meego and harmattan but I cannot find them. any one knows how to find them? thnaks14:37
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Turski(topic)14:39
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pp_(oh right, "foo" didn't work as passphrase due to being too short, 8 char minimum)14:42
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AL13N_workatlaz: anyone can edit http://elinux.org/Jolla14:54
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AL13N_workpp_: is the script open source :-)?14:55
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pp_see http://elinux.org/Jolla#How_do_I_enable_WiFi_tethering.3F14:59
pp_hopefully those instructions are enough :-)14:59
Bysmyyrlooks easy15:00
Pnuupp_: should that be "pkcon install"?15:00
pp_yep :D15:01
Triztmarcellux: did you try #harmattan ?15:01
pp_(I always typo it :D )15:01
Pnuu:-)15:01
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pp_nmcli, transmission-cli, ...15:02
Venemo_N9hi15:02
tobiskipp_: that's all you need to do to be able to use the phone as wifi hotspot?15:02
pp_apparently, yes.15:02
tobiskihuh, let's give it a try15:03
pp_should be pretty easy to qmlify, but I suppose that'll be a core feature soon15:03
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tobiskihmm, dbus.exceptions.DBusException: net.connman.Error.PermissionDenied: Permission denied15:08
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pp_devel-su?15:09
tobiskiyes15:09
pp_or...15:09
pp_could be you need to enable wifi first15:09
pp_yup, that does the trick15:10
pp_(and nemo seems to be enough)15:11
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ggabrielany fingerterm expert around? looking to add items in the menu for tmux (as opposed to screen)15:14
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tobiskiyes wifi enabling worked and I found the network on my laptop and was able to connect but without internet connection15:16
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tobiskiI wonder if I have to manually specify the ip address? Assuming Jolla can't handle DHCP and give me an available ip15:17
sremesat least I didn't have to configure anything extra15:19
tobiskilet's try again15:19
pp_first try it didn't give an ip but afterwards it did...15:19
pp_so could be a bit random15:19
tobiskiseems like so to me aswell, worked now like a charm15:20
tobiskiis there some sort of timer or just random behaviour, wifi-tehtering seemed to disable itself after couple minutes15:21
pp_I've not had very good luck with the wifi driver so could be that too15:21
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smokexit probably checks the sim or queries your service tower to see if its allowed on a timer15:33
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cvpit there 3D Model from TOH released ?15:39
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Hq`ggabriel: well I'm the original author... I'm a bit busy at the moment but maybe I can help some other day if you don't get your problem solved any other way :)15:51
ggabrielHq`: thanks, no worries, opened an issue in github15:51
ggabrielHq`: it isn't super urgent anyway, just a nice to have i guess15:52
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ShadowJKI think Jolla should make their brick+mortar store displays run the demo phone at max brightness16:02
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ShadowJKlooks kinda silly with halogen spotlights and backlight on minimum :D16:02
AL13N_workShadowJK: you mean in the DNA shops?16:03
ShadowJKyes16:04
AL13N_workShadowJK: you should notify them via twitter :-)16:04
ShadowJKI was looking for Elisa shop to change my sim to micro, got lost and ended up in a dna store instead16:04
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ln-does the backlight brightness adjust automatically? i have a feeling it really doesn't.16:05
WaRiOhello from greece16:05
stephgκαλησπέρα  WaRiO, welcome!16:06
WaRiOellinas?16:07
stephgοχι ακριβος16:08
stephgbut we should be good and write in English so everyone understands:- welcome to the channel16:09
WaRiOok16:09
WaRiOexw mathei ta greeklish apo to elliniko irc :P16:09
Pnuuenglish?16:11
WaRiOyes man16:11
WaRiOi speek in greek with stephg16:11
stephgsorry got kicked off the wireless here16:12
PnuuI'd suggest private for that :-) (/query stephg)16:12
stephgPnuu, I'm strictly English only now :)16:13
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prometoyshi, i have the problem, that I'm stuck at accepting the google terms. no gesture works. only way out is a incoming call16:18
prometoys(i wanted to create a google account)16:19
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ggabrielprometoys: did you upgrade to the latest version?16:20
prometoysno, is this a known problem?16:20
prometoysi just turned the device on16:20
ggabrielnot that I'm aware of (I haven't got the device yet), but it's best to upgrade first before doing anything else, as we know that the very first upgrades deal with a myriad of issues16:20
ggabrielmaybe your current issue is one of them16:20
ggabrielmaybe you can reboot?16:20
prometoysI can call myself, and go from the sms or phone app to the home screen16:21
ggabrielsomebody correct me if i'm wrong, but i would reboot to go back to a clean ui16:22
ggabrielupdate16:22
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ggabrieland then do whatever you wanted to do with your google account16:22
Pnuuprometoys: I'd do the update and try again after that16:22
Pnuugo to settings -> about device -> pulley menu -> check for update16:23
Pnuuthen wait until it finishes checking, then from the pulley select update16:23
prometoysit seems to be a problem, sometimes it occurs if you create accounts from the welcome-app, had this with twitter too16:23
prometoysBut I can't "downgrade" later, or?16:24
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ggabrielprometoys: i heard that if you reset to factory settings, it downgrades. but why would you want to do that? :-)16:24
prometoysbecause I need to review it later and want to have the original condition back16:25
Pnuuthen factory reset should do the trick16:25
atlazWohoo, my first app is ready! Or.. you know... the tutorial. But i changed some texts!16:26
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artemmaStill "In Picking".. well, that's better than "Paid" I guess16:30
stephgartemma :(16:30
* ggabriel still paid :P16:31
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KabouikHi! Is there any native IRC client yet, that wouldn't be published in the store yet?16:35
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Andy80anyone of you has tried to use WhatsApp (the Android version) ?16:52
Nicd-yep16:52
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TurskiKabouik: fingerterm + openssh ;)16:54
Andy80Nicd-, does it work? I remember that someone else tried it but it cannot access the contacts, so it's pretty useless unless the other person write you first16:54
TurskiAndy80: i have no problems with contacts16:54
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Nicd-Andy80: it seems it depends on where you get it from but I don't know the differences16:54
Nicd-I got it from their site and it can't access contacts16:54
KabouikHow does it work Turski with Fingerterm and openssh?16:55
Andy80Turski, the WhatsApp Android app that you're using on Jolla can see your contacts?16:55
TurskiKabouik: you have screen + irssi on server...16:55
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TurskiAndy80: yes16:56
guest1212121can anyone recommend a decent (as in not sending credentials or content to strangers) email client for android, that can be used on Jolla?16:56
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guest1212121the official client is just unusable currently :(16:56
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Andy80Turski, uhm.... I need to try at home then :) now I don't have something to take out my SIM from the Lumia :P16:57
Quutoday i got 8 empty mails16:58
Quuwith no sender16:58
Quucant delete them either16:58
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KabouikWell so I guess it's for Linux Turski? Don't know how to use that anyway, and ssh through 3G doesn't work because ip is hidden, right?16:59
Almindorhey16:59
Almindorare all JOlla phones same or is the HW going to be different based on continent/country?17:00
Almindore.g. HSPA only for some countries etc.17:00
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Andy80Turski, where did you take the apk from, Google Play Store?17:00
AlmindorI want to buy one in EU (as I'm from there originally), but I reside in Canada atm. going home in april, and I'm wondering if I buy a jolla in EU if it'll work on canadian/US networks17:01
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attahProblem: I want the "the first one" ambience, but the default ringtone.. settings already lists the ringtone as using default, and changing has no effect.. any ideas?17:02
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attahAlmidor: UMTS/3G won't work, that's for sure17:03
attahGSM should work and no info on LTE yet afaik17:04
attah*Almindor, sorry17:04
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guest1212121Quu, I get the damn empty emails too. The email client is doing something horribly wrong over IMAP and/or SMTP.17:08
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Almindorattah: do you know if there are plans to support UMTS/3G?17:12
prometoysPnuu, ggabriel, thx,17:12
attahNo idea what is physically supported, might be more than thy list..but probably not17:13
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Nicd-Kabouik: you can SSH to a server even if you are behind a NAT17:13
attahSo they have to make another version with different antenna and/or chip17:13
KabouikI'm not :o Just wanted to connect to IRC on 3G when moving with my Jolla, but I'll wait for a native client17:13
Nicd-Kabouik: well you said "IP is hidden" which I guessed meant NAT.17:15
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KabouikNo, I just seem to remember that SSH with N9 was problematic when only internet connection was 3G17:15
KabouikI think 3G does not provide a true ip17:15
Nicd-it does17:15
Nicd-you're just behind a NAT usually17:15
Nicd-and your public IP may change if you disconnect17:16
Kabouikhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65245 here is an example of what I was remembering17:17
wickwireYep, I'm using 3G on an android phone at the moment17:17
KabouikCan probably be achieved but it may be a bit too complicated for me17:17
Nicd-Kabouik: that's the reverse, connecting TO your phone with SSH17:18
Kabouikhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5479617:18
PnuuKabouik: mosh helps, although there's some kind of bug in screen refreshing17:18
KabouikOh OK Nicd-17:18
Nicd-Kabouik: no problems with connecting somewhere FROM your phone17:18
Nicd-while on 3G17:18
KabouikAll right! But indeed, both directions would be best17:19
Pnuuthat should be possible via ssh tunnel, too17:20
Nicd-reverse SSH tunneling, yes17:21
Pnuusomething like "ssh -M 31314 -R 31313:localhost:22 user@host" in the phone17:21
Nicd-just need a server in the middle17:21
Pnuuyeah17:21
TurskiAndy80: whatsapp.com17:21
TurskiKabouik: yes, for linux17:21
TurskiKabouik: and of course ssh works over 3G17:21
Nicd-reverse tunneling is what I have to use from home because my ISP lied to me about their cable modem capabilities :|17:21
TurskiKabouik: how else i would use it?17:22
KabouikI was confused between ssh and reverse ssh that does not work *easily* over 3G due to private ip Turski17:22
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Nicd-Kabouik: reverse SSH should work fine too17:23
KabouikBy the way, as we're discussing ssh: when ssh-ing TO the phone, is it possible to use the computer keyboard and terminal to run commands lines on the Jolla?17:23
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Nicd-Kabouik: SSHing to your phone is not the same as reverse SSH tunneling from your phone17:23
TurskiKabouik: yes, that's what ssh is for17:23
KabouikIt seems too high level for me Nicd-, I'm no expert and can only follow wiki guides :p17:23
KabouikOh, so I don't know how to do it Turski. I only use ssh for sftp transfers currently17:24
KabouikBut I guess it's only doable from a Linux computer17:24
TurskiKabouik: that's not right17:24
Pnuuin windows use putty or something17:24
TurskiKabouik: there's for example putty for windows17:24
KabouikOk17:24
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KabouikI'll give it a go tonight. Can't test right now because I still have trouble using ssh through USB on W8.117:26
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pettterSo, is there any way to import a) calendar events b) SMS messages ?17:27
pettter'cause I just got my very own device, and it's tentatively pretty damn nice17:28
edgar2Kabouik: at least with the finnish isp saunalahti, you are by default given a nat adress when you connect through 3g. however, you can enable public ip adress for your connection for free if you wish. maybe your isp has similar possibilities?17:29
KabouikHonestly I have no idea :P17:30
KabouikI should check that at some point17:30
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Kabouikhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12758233&postcount=18 I'm trying to do that to install RNDIS for USB ssh, but the problem is that I get no unknown device in Device manager17:41
KabouikWhen connected to USB, the Jolla asks which mode I want, but nothing happens in Windows. It did not report any new device failing to install17:41
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StskeepsKabouik: usb2 or usb3 port17:43
KabouikUSB317:43
KabouikI actually found something named "Sailfish" in Start menu/Devices and printers, in the "Not specified category" (which means there is an issue)17:44
KabouikTroubleshooting won't give any satisfactory result of course17:44
KabouikAnd RNDIS seems there though17:44
KabouikIn properties/advanced of the RNDIS line found in the "Sailfish" device, I set the "Network address" to 192.168.2.15, but still nothing if I ping that IP, or try to ssh17:46
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KabouikThere definitely is some progress. I now have a RNDIS connection in my connections, set IP to 192.168.2.15 and Bridge IP to 192.168.1.1 (no DNS set). It says "Unidentified network", I can't ping the 192.168.2.1518:03
KabouikBut if I disable and then enable this connection while the Jolla is connected through USB, I can hear it vibrate18:03
KabouikSo there is definitely some sort of communication between them18:03
Stskeepswindows which version?18:04
Kabouik8.118:04
KabouikI disabled firewall just in case, but I'm sure there is some things I did wrong18:04
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Stskeepsyou should set your ip to 192.168.2.1418:05
Stskeepsand ping 192.168.2.1518:05
KabouikOh.18:05
KabouikMy.18:05
KabouikGod.18:05
KabouikWorking :o18:06
KabouikI thought I add to put the Jolla IP in there18:06
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Stskeepsnetworking 10118:06
Stskeepsdon't set the ip to what you want to communicate with18:06
Stskeeps:P18:06
KabouikYes but I was thinking the ip for this connection was supposed to BE the Jolla's one, not the one of the computer :p18:07
KabouikHowever, I actually don't know how I finally got RNDIS to appear in my "Not specified" devices. It was not there till now18:07
KabouikAwsome, I can now USB SSH and use Putty/Kitty to enter command lines from the computer (I had never tried that, only sftp transfers with ssh)18:08
ShadowJKlol, I just got an email from jolla that said Delivery time 3-4 weeks18:09
ShadowJK:(18:09
ShadowJKBut then I scroll down and there's a tracking code \o/18:10
StskeepsShadowJK: preorder or webshop18:10
ShadowJKpreorder18:10
Stskeepsok, good18:10
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ShadowJKBut it starts exactly like I had ordered it today18:11
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ShadowJKDear X, we've received your order. We will let you know when your jolla will be delivered. You can follow your order here. NOTE: Delivery time 3-4 weeks."18:12
ShadowJK(translated from finnish)18:12
StskeepsShadowJK: perhaps a mixup in systems18:15
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Stskeepsie, the new one18:16
Stskeeps:P18:16
KabouikSo now I have my sdcard mounted in /run/user/100000/media/sdcard, but how am I supposed to paste files in there through sftp? It says permission denied. Should I log as root with my sftp client?18:16
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pauli_Hey all! I just received my Jolla and i was trying to get the updates but it just hangs at the 'checking for updates' -- does the updates work fine for you others?18:20
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dTAyes, try with it connected to WLAN if you can18:21
pauli_I have it on wlan connection and opening google.com with www-browser seems to work fine18:21
Skorpymy big brother had to do a device reset before he got the updates.18:21
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pauli_Oh -- So: factory reset -> get updates ?18:22
pauli_Maybe reboot and try again first18:22
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Skorpynot sure if it's the case on everybody, so... :P18:23
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petttercan the internal IM handle several XMPP accounts?18:24
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dTAi haven't tried but see no reason why it wouldn't18:27
pettterhm, seems it might be that it requires actually nicely verified certs18:28
ShadowJKUh oh, wrong postcode on my order :s18:28
ShadowJKthis will be interesting...18:29
Quulol18:29
QuuShadowJK: pakettiautomaatti?18:29
Morpog_PCmy new toy arrived :D a Samsung 840 EVO 1TB18:29
ShadowJKQuu; nope18:30
QuuShadowJK: ah, seems like those things have their own postal codes18:30
ShadowJKQuu; there's a 0 too few at the end. and then something added a 0 at the start instead18:30
Quuuh, okay18:30
Quuif the address is correct, i dont see any major problems18:30
ShadowJKSeems itella has some sort of online chat, I'll try that tomorrow :)18:31
Quuthat cant go well.18:32
nahkissyay. jolla in transit18:34
pauli_Uh, tried reboot and reset to factory settings and its still saying 'checking for updates' without any progress ..18:34
pauli_And account creation after factory reset failed with 'something wrong with .. please try again later'18:35
pauli_Soo, if the updates and accounts are working for else but not me, and my network is working fine, the problem is my phone ?18:36
sdjaynapauli_: what's your username? if you're account isn't working, you won't be able to update18:36
sdjaynayour*18:36
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pauli_sdjayna: i dont have one -- i did (just 1min ago) factory reset -> it prompts for account creation -> i fill up forms -> accept -> failed to create account, please try again later18:37
pauli_but if the updates dont work without the jolla-account then that would be good reason, and there is just something wrong with new account creation then maybe18:38
pauli_maybe i try later as the suggestion said ..18:38
sdjaynapauli_: the error handling could be better..right, there's something wrong with the username/password you're entering i think18:38
sdjaynapauli_: perhaps too short, odd characters, go for something simple18:39
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pauli_Thanks, i'll try.18:40
sdjaynapauli_: let me know the username, i can look at the logs on the account servers ;)18:40
ccha4I got a bug... the virtaul keyboard didn't close and stay at forground for all applications screen now18:40
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ccha4to fix it, just to open somethign using keyboard,... then this time is closed after typing18:42
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pauli_Thanks sdjayna, super support! thumbs up18:54
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sdjaynapauli_: thanks - you're welcome18:54
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nanderstill merely 'in picking'...19:05
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nanderI fear I'm one of these 'in picking but already sent' people19:05
nanderBut I can't find it at fedex19:05
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pettternander: did you all their customer support?19:06
nanderNot yet19:07
pettterthats how I got a proper tracking number at least19:07
nanderDoes fedex deliver during weekends?19:07
nanderI hope not..19:07
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pettterdepends on where and who is their local partners I guess19:07
nanderThey work with local partners?19:07
pettterSwedish postal service19:07
pettterfor example19:07
nanderin picking is random..19:09
nanderI was in picking 24 hours after thebootroo was and mine isn't in the shipped state yet19:09
nanderWhilst his is delivered19:09
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nahkissmy is still in "Paid." but I got mail with tracking number and it's already in sorting,etc19:11
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nadrielnander: I was in picking for 1 week19:13
nanderI'm gonna be angry if that's the case19:13
nanderThat's the period when I want to be elsewhere19:13
nanderNot hopping trains to pick up a jolla19:13
nanderand having to stay on campus when NOBODY else is19:13
nadrielI got mine last week19:14
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nanderAll delivery companies suck at delivering here19:14
attahpettter: it was fedex for me in sweden19:14
nanderThey plainly suck19:14
nanderYesterday: package will arrive between 12:30 and 19:0019:14
nadriel: D19:14
nanderThe timeslot is already ridiculously long19:14
nanderBut.. It arrived 21:1519:14
pdanekFor me, still no record in Fedex, so it was not sent. It will be 4 weeks from order on 25th.19:14
nadriel"please stay home during this time"19:14
pdanek:D19:15
nanderThis weekend I will be at my parents'19:15
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Jonninander: if you have been in picking less than 24 hours, you shouldnt bother care.19:20
Jonnibut ofcourse if you have been in picking for a week, then care query might be wise19:20
tehdelystill no shipping record for mine19:21
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tehdelybut butterflylabs shipped my bitcoin miner19:21
tehdelywhich is a real shock19:21
tehdelyso at least i'm getting _something_ for jul ;)19:21
nanderI sent an email to care asking them if they could change my address19:22
nanderTo a free delivery depot 2 minutes by bike from here19:22
nanderI should have put that address on there in the first place ;)19:22
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pdanekTizen is still in hands of LiMo Foundation, isn't it?19:28
pdanekOr it's somehow Samsung's property only?19:28
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ikarusI am probably the n-millionth person asking it, but is someone seriously working on a keyboard other half and by that I mean, working on the MECHANICAL side aswell, so far I've only seen electrical and software side ideas and prototypes19:30
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nanderdirk was working on a hardware one19:32
AL13N_lizzyhardware what?19:32
nanderI asked a local 3d manufacturing company if they could do it19:32
nander(create within the required tolerances / strengths required for such parts)19:33
nanderHis answer was: a clicking system (like the OTH) should be possible, plastic strength === lego brick strength (same material)19:33
nanderI think you'd be looking at ~5-10 eur at that company for the plastic part19:34
nadrielMerry xmas19:34
nadrielhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_bvWF2iK819:34
nanderOnce we have a design I want to test one and if that one works I want to give some people the option to buy one from me ;)19:34
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nanderAgainst cost I have + shipping + payment cost19:35
Andy80hi19:35
nanderHowever, I can't do the mechanical part19:35
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pettterI wonder.. maybe have a backside keybard19:35
pettter*board19:35
nanderI'd think a slider in horizontal mode19:35
nanderOr in vertical19:35
nanderWhichever we prefer19:35
nanderVertical would mean we'd need to add some weight to the other half19:35
nanderBe it a battery or something else19:36
ikarusnander: see, that is the sort of stuff I want to hear19:36
Andy80I don't remember who I was talking with about 2 hours ago, anyway I've tried also to install WhatsApp taking the apk from whatsapp.com but still I've the same problem: I cannot access the contacts19:36
ikarusnander: even with horizontal I've been tempted to slap an extra battery in for weight reasons19:36
nanderDirk also lives in the NL, so I might even visit him myself with a mechanical prototype19:36
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ikarusnander: heh, enough Dutch people here :p19:36
nanderThe big advantage of horizontal mode is that it also suits a gamepad19:36
Andy80it keeps saying "this action is not currently supported"19:37
nanderI'd want the design to be multi-usable19:37
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ikarusnander: the slider, yes19:37
nanderportrait slider isn't really19:37
nanderA pandora / nokia communicator design is also an option19:37
ikarusnander: I've been tempted to get a design milled out of light aluminium19:37
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ikarusbut it's expensive, although very robust19:37
pettterany way to get the builtin XMPP client to disregard certificate errors?19:38
pdaneklandscape slider is the way to go19:38
ikarusso hence the interest in alternatives and bulk production19:38
nanderAnd do you want slide or a rotating system like on the last nokia communicator?19:38
mcfriskGot a 64gb sd card for jolla. Was it so that manual mkfs to ext4 or btrfs was needed, on device?19:38
nander(that was the e97?)19:38
Stskeepsmcfrisk: manual mkfs needed19:39
Stskeepsno exfat19:39
nandern819:39
ikarusnander: my design was assuming a slide system similar to that on the N90019:39
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nanderI like the n8 system more19:39
mcfriskStskeeps: thanks, will try ext4 then19:39
nandermore robust19:39
nanderAnd nicer19:39
ikarusnander: N8 ? N97 you mean ?19:39
ikarusI mean I have an N8 here, no keyboard to be found :p19:39
nanderhttp://images.www.dailymobile.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/nokia-n91.jpg19:40
ikarusnander: gah, no19:40
nanderor was that sytem never released?19:40
ikarusnever released in that form19:40
nanderMost modern sliders don't really slide19:40
celeron55i figure the mechanism of that would require more space inside the phone19:41
ikarusbut the N97 mini has a similar one19:41
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celeron55than what jolla allows19:41
ikarusI've held designs like that, tend to end up being less stable then a N900 like slider19:41
ikarusespectially given that the phone is comparatively heavy19:41
nanderNo, it really doesn't require a lot of space19:41
nanderIt's just 4 beams19:41
nanderAnd with some neat mechanical properties it all stays put ;)19:42
nanderThis one uses rotation rather than a linear system19:42
ikarusnander: that design you just linked only works with a lightweight screen19:42
ikarusI've seen designs with heavier screens and they never quite end up being stable due to the forces involved19:43
nanderThe question is: could a 3d printer get the precision required for a linear system19:43
nandera linear thing requires precision, or the thing will jam19:43
ikarusnander: well, that is why I went for milled metal19:43
nanderAnd not work smoothly19:43
nanderWhat would be the prize of that?19:44
nanderIt'd look awesome19:44
celeron55hmm, well, i sure hope someone can come up with something mechanically sane either way19:44
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nanderCeleron55 - the problem is, we can't do molding19:44
nanderWay too expensive19:44
nanderAnd 3D printer is up to .2 mm or so19:44
ikarusnander: 60-110 euro for the sliding assembly and clip on part to be made out of metal, plastic 3d printed back cover and keyboard holding bits19:44
ZogG_laptoppdanek: sup19:45
ikarusprice difference depends a lot on the production count and the exact material used19:45
nanderThe 3D printing company I asked can do sturdy work up to that precision19:45
ZogG_laptoppdanek: did you check how much the shipping cost?19:45
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nanderI'd almost say the cheapest iron available and let it rust19:45
Jonnimcfrisk: exfat also works if you compile exfat fuse module yourself.19:45
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nanderI'd want a cheap steel backcover xD19:45
ikarusnander: actually aluminium is the cheapest19:45
nanderFE 3619:45
ikarusfar easier to mill19:45
pettterfor keyboards I'd say .2 mm is definitely on the coarse side19:45
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nanderOr wichever number ;)19:46
celeron55if in doubt, i can imagine doing some clever things like having a mechanism and some empty space in place of jolla's built-in battery and having a larger battery inside the keyboard to offset the weight completely 8)19:46
petttersince the kayboards are supposed to be smallish19:46
ZogG_laptopJonni: why not include it as it's opensource or source code and licenses of use are different things?19:46
nanderDo we have a mechanical engineering student / engineer here?19:46
ZogG_laptopfaenil: ping19:46
pdanekZogG_laptop: ah sorry, I didn't yet, crazy week19:46
ZogG_laptoppdanek: same here19:46
ikarusceleron55: well, I plan on having a second identical battery in the keyboard19:46
nanderwhy not a bigger one? ;)19:46
nanderIt will get big then19:46
nanderA keypad would be ~3mm19:47
ikarusnander: because an identical one is jut practical :)19:47
nanderBattery ~6 mm19:47
pdanek1st half is all aluminium?19:47
pdanekso keyboard other half could be too, would be cool.... like N95019:47
nanderI'd pay 60 eur for a metallic one19:47
nandermetal*19:47
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nanderIf we get a nice design19:47
pdaneknander: I'd pay even 200 eur for nice design19:48
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pdanekjust to have keyboard half19:48
ikarusnander: well, it is a metalic slider mechanism, the actual back is still plastic on this design19:48
ZogG_laptoppdanek: but i would love to combine your parts  and mine in one working thing :P19:48
nanderWhy not put the actual back metal as well?19:48
nanderThe prize of a metal plate is only ~10 eur, right?19:48
pdanekZogG_laptop: I know, I keep you in mind19:48
ikarusnander: well, that depends on the production count19:48
ikarusnander: and the design19:48
nanderThat one could even be lasercut19:49
nanderWould that part be easily removable?19:49
nanderDo you have a design drawing available?19:49
ikarusnander: just paper sketches right now19:49
ZogG_laptoppdanek: :D19:49
pdanekI think removal of non-flexibile parts would be an issue19:49
nanderCan you turn it into an actual thing?19:49
ikarusnander: because I was hoping that someone else was further along :)19:49
pdanekso probably just plastic19:49
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* ZogG_laptop pokes faenil 19:50
ikarusnander: I can with some help19:50
faenilZogG_laptop, hey19:50
faenilZogG_laptop, sorry, packing up :/19:50
nanderI see your isp is NL ;)19:50
ZogG_laptopfaenil: can you answer TOH related question on tweeter i asked when you have time19:50
mcfriskthere's something hacker like in using fdisk and mkfs.ext4 on a phone19:50
ZogG_laptoptwitter*19:50
ZogG_laptopmcfrisk: ext4 is no hacking19:51
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pettterhow do I get to a terminal? need to enable developer mode?19:51
Dottiyes19:51
ZogG_laptopmcfrisk: if you use zfs it might be better :P19:51
AL13N_lizzywow, i didn't realize the shop was already opened up...19:51
AL13N_lizzyZogG_laptop: btrfs is better :-)19:51
ZogG_laptopis there web view for shop btw?19:51
ZogG_laptopAL13N_lizzy: you can't say anything better zfs :)19:52
AL13N_lizzyZogG_laptop: zfs on linux is unusable19:52
mcfriskso how do I now mount the 64gb sdcard with ext4 in it?19:52
AL13N_lizzyZogG_laptop: lol19:52
AL13N_lizzyok19:52
ZogG_laptopAL13N_lizzy: why so?19:52
AL13N_lizzyvery big kernel leaks19:52
AL13N_lizzyslow19:52
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ZogG_laptopmcfrisk: sudo mount /dev/DEVICE /mnt/MNT_POINT19:52
AL13N_lizzylow version level of implementation19:53
AL13N_lizzyhangs oopses when doing stuff19:53
AL13N_lizzyetc...19:53
mcfriskis there some special location where media and gallery apps scan for content?19:54
ZogG_laptopAL13N_lizzy: what about future opezfs?19:54
ZogG_laptopopen*19:54
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mcfriskZogG_laptop: ZogG_laptop: I meant mount it in jolla19:56
ZogG_laptopmcfrisk: i bet same19:57
ZogG_laptopu have root19:57
mcfriskZogG_laptop: sure. So I guess no automounter there for ext4 fs. Mount manually anywhere and add symlinks to /home/nemo?20:00
nanderDoes anyone have a BROKEN n900?20:01
nanderWhich is mechanically intact?20:01
edgarsyo20:02
edgarsgot my phone today20:02
Jopeanyone wanna buy an n9? :-D20:02
Jopewhite body, black usb cover + sim holder20:02
edgarswhy i cant create  a jolla acount? :/20:02
edgars+c20:02
nanderI need the n90020:02
AL13N_lizzyZogG_laptop: i have no idea about openZFS, but btrfs is pretty good for now (and easier to manage), so i won't be needing zfs anymore :-)20:03
nanderTo be exact, I need the mechanical parts of the n90020:03
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attahDid everyone get ENG/FIN/SWE text on the box? Or was that just swedes?20:06
nanderHow thick is the battery of a jolla?20:07
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nanderCan someone measure it?20:07
AL13N_lizzybtw: for the shop, i assume we can't create an account and thus cannot log in? or is that account of the shop the same as the jolla account page?20:07
Jopeuh .. 5mm or so20:07
Jopecan't be arsed to fetch mine20:07
nanderI'm mining data for a keyboard oth20:07
attahAnd i don't have callipers handy :/20:07
JopeI guess you already read the TMO thread with all the electrical info20:07
nanderjup ;)20:08
nanderBut I want to add another official battery if it isn't too thick20:08
attahanyway surrounding stuff is pretty much as far back... so what are you trying to do with the info?20:08
mcfriskWhat would break if I moved /home/nemo to the sdcard with ext4?20:08
attahah.. okay20:09
nanderattah - thinking ;)20:09
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ikarusJope: no I haven't read it as I tend to choke on such threads20:09
nanderOn if an official battery would fit into a keyboard oth20:09
nanderSince a keyboard oth would need 7 mm thicknes or so anyway20:09
ikarusI just want mechanical and electrical drawings on the OTH connection20:09
nanderOtherwise it doesn't feel nice to hold20:09
ikarusif it is 5mm, then it would be workable20:10
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attahmeasured with a ruler.. it's less than 5mm20:11
ikarusDoesn't Jolla just use a commercially availible battery model ?20:11
Jopemy thumb-forefinger caliper isn't calibrated :-D20:11
Quutoo bored to get my micrometer20:11
attahboth lines are fully visible on either side.. so like 4.5?20:11
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attahnander: is that good enough for you?20:14
nanderFor now, yes, thanks20:14
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nanderI'll measure more precisely once I have mine20:14
ikarusattah: I'd prefer caliper measured or a type number I can find20:14
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pettterany docs on where calendar events, contacts, message logs etc. are stored in the file system?20:17
nanderIs the camera on the left or on the right side?20:17
nander(so, on the button, or on the non-button side)20:17
attahWell fwiw.. Model 22B50 by NLT electronics20:17
attahnander:camera is center20:17
nandercenter?20:17
nanderDid it move?20:17
attahtop center20:17
attahas per pic on jolla.com20:17
Jopeit moved a long time ago20:18
nanderAh, yes, it's center20:18
nanderThat's a pity20:18
Jopebut everyone's using the first set of renders20:18
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cvpre20:21
stephgnander does it mater in particular for you?20:21
nanderYes20:21
nanderIt makes it impossible to use both camera and a keyboard other half20:21
nanderSince for a stable slider you need around 50% overlap20:21
mcfriskSo, ext4 sdcard isn't mounted automatically but vfat/ntfs ones are. Should I manually edit/patch /usr/sbin/mount-sd.sh or is the updated one available in some repo/rpm in an easier way? Following http://forum.jollausers.com/jolla-phone/jolla-sd-card/15/20:21
AJAX555oh yeah jolla has been shipped <320:22
Fryemcfrisk, manually patch it for now I think20:24
FryeThat is what I did20:25
stephgnander oh I see20:25
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jake9xxmcfrisk: it's not updated yet, we'll update it soonish20:26
mcfriskFrye: and then the sdcard will be automatically used by media player and gallery apps, or are symlinks needed after that?20:27
jake9xxmcfrisk: so if you want it now, patch the script20:27
mcfriskjake9xx: thanks20:27
Fryemcfrisk, No Idea. Never got that far =)20:27
FryeBut it is at least automatically mounted20:27
jake9xxmcfrisk: should not be - and in the mount script just remove the options20:27
FryeI've been too busy to test it yet20:27
jake9xxthen do chmod if needed on another line after mount20:27
jake9xxthat's propably where it fails, ext3/ext4 support is in kernel already20:28
Fryejake9xx, on the jollausers forum is a working case around the mount20:28
FryeSo that the chown is done for ext4 and btrfs and the uid gid mount options for vfat20:28
vbmithrDo anybody use the jolla email client ?20:28
jake9xxFrye: this is good example where co-creation site will improve our quality and make your life better20:28
FryeYep20:28
mcfriskack20:28
FryeCan I sign in there already =)20:28
jake9xxpost it there!20:29
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pettterThe root password is the same as the user password?20:31
leinirpettter: make sure to use devel-su, not just su20:32
leinirbut yes20:32
pettterright, thanks20:32
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nadrielOh kay, I think Jolla's battery life is allright as it is. It's survived a day and still has some juice left. Unplugged at 6 AM. 3G with data on all ady, browsed news during lunch, chatetr with facebook, google etc. ssh IRCing for several hours. And listening to music for about 2 hours.20:33
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nadrielAnd now that the optimizations20:33
nadriel*optimisations are under way, it's getting better. \o/20:33
Quunadriel: yeah. and people still bitch about how shitty the battery life is20:33
nadrielI might get my 2 day phone!20:34
mcfriskgah, why is it always so hard with network manager and usb networking..20:34
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jake9xxbecause connmand just hates usb ?20:35
nadrielQuu, My last one lasted the same when new, but as android "got better"/bloater, no longer a day.20:35
FryeHmm, together.jolla.com. Should I be able to sign in already or is it still wip?20:36
jake9xxFrye: it's waiting for final touches , then it's live20:36
FryeOk20:36
jake9xxFrye: soon, real soon now :)20:36
mcfriskaww, jolla has vi, git and diff, but no patch ;)20:36
FryeCan't wait!20:36
nadrielwhat is that together.jolla.com?20:37
jake9xxmcfrisk: patch is in obs repos afaik20:37
FryeOk I have to. Now off to spend some time with mrs. Before she divorces me because of this Jolla I have :D20:37
Pnuumcfrisk: patch-2.6.1-1.1.1.armv7hl20:37
mcfriskso is it ok to just zypper install something?20:37
Pnuupkcon install patch20:37
jake9xxmcfrisk: pkcon install <name>20:37
jake9xxyes, it's ok to install stuff20:37
jake9xxif you do chmod's or remove stuff with rm as root - you might invalidate your warranty20:38
mcfriskfrom default repos, ok. Since no flasher available yet..20:38
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the_mgtahoy20:38
jake9xxmcfrisk: default and if you need more stuff do: ssu ar mer-tools ; pkcon refresh20:38
the_mgt342?! I am kind of late to the party20:38
Quuonly 342.20:39
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the_mgtI ignored the talk about an irc channel because I thought "yeah, the usual 3-5 nerds idling around"20:41
Quuyes, thats what these massive irc-channels are about20:42
mcfriskIf anyone else is looking for a pkcon cheat sheet: http://tuxi-test.blogspot.de/2009/01/package-management-cheatsheet-package.html20:43
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jake9xxmcfrisk: +1, excellent20:44
nadrielCheat sheet? More like incredible manpage meets multitasking20:44
* nadriel bookmarks the page20:45
mcfrisksigh, nothing provides /bin/less or /usr/bin/less, even if zless is there. I guess time for mer-tools repo..20:46
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jake9xxmcfrisk: :D20:48
attahmcfrisk: plz tell us if you find it.. getting real tired of more now20:48
mcfriskargh, still not found. How can anyone be so cruel to build busybox without less!?!?20:49
special'ssu ar mer-tools; pkcon install less'20:49
jake9xxattah: ssu ar mer-tools ; pkcon refresh ; pkcon search name <your tool>20:49
jake9xxthen pkcon install <name>20:49
jake9xxg'nite - I'm off20:49
mcfriskless doesn't provide /bin/less or /usr/bin/less20:50
specialit's /usr/bin/less20:50
* ggabriel in picking20:50
mcfriskthought obs was adding the provides binary fields automatically..20:50
mcfriskSo, jolla less is more: ssu ar mer-tools && pkcon refresh && pkcon install less20:51
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specialalways one of the first things I install after a reflash.20:52
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attahI'm getting a funky error on adding the repo..20:54
attah[D] NetworkService::setPath:447 - void NetworkService::setPath(const QString&) "Method "GetProperties" with signature "" on interface "net.connman.Service" doesn't exist20:54
specialyou can ignore that20:54
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attahOh, yeah.. it must be D for debug.. just so not used to commands printing stuff when they succeed20:55
mcfriskWhos plot was it to sell me phone with a bit raw Linux system, then hook me up to hacking and developing on it? Evil plan...20:55
Jonnilots of unneeded debug messages that need to be cleaned out at some point :)20:55
specialthat one in particular20:56
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* special goes to bitch about it again20:56
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AL13N_lizzy3 new Jolla's appeared on ebay, all for $500 7d or more20:58
AL13N_lizzyall the old ones were sold20:58
Jopesomeone wants to make a quick buck20:58
specialsomeone missed their opportunity :p20:58
AL13N_lizzynot really20:58
AL13N_lizzy$500 < €39920:59
AL13N_lizzyspecial: exactly20:59
specialalthough, there will probably still be a big market for people willing to ship them outside of the official sales countries.20:59
Jopemaybe so..20:59
attahAL13N_lizzy: false21:00
ggabrielyeah, 500 usd is a bit more than 400 eur21:00
ggabrielalso, if the phone has the le toh, it must cost 2000 usd21:00
ggabrielat least :P21:00
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nanderI may not have the first jolla sold, but I do have the first CD ever sold by a certain band ;)21:01
nanderI am a first one ;)21:01
nanderhttp://theotherworldeu.bandcamp.com/album/3921:01
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HarhaanJohtaja500 usd = 365 euros?21:03
ggabrielreally?21:03
ikarusyes, the USD is that worthless now21:04
ggabrielHarhaanJohtaja: i stand corrected21:04
ikarusit's worse some of the time even21:04
nanderit has been worse ;)21:04
nanderJust think of this21:04
nanderA dollar bill will never be worth less than 0.005 eur21:04
nanderThat's the value of the paper ;)21:04
ggabrielclearly it went down [the usd]21:05
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Pnuuwell, dollars are not printed on paper ;-)21:05
ggabrielit was ~1.5 gbp not so long ago21:05
Pnuuit's fabric21:05
nanderYou can always use your bills to start a fire ;)21:05
nanderIs that cheaper or worth more?21:05
ggabrielyeah, especially the 2 usd bills that nobody believes are official21:05
Pnuudunno, but more durable than paper21:05
ggabrielsooo, it's a good time to go shopping to the usa then21:05
ggabrielwhat do they have decent that isn't a gopro? :)21:06
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* ggabriel can't think of anything21:06
ggabrielok, gonna pack for amsterdam, laters. enjoy your jollas [and weekend]21:07
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micko_how do I remove android software not installed from any store?21:10
AL13N_lizzyYAY, i finally have an order # !!!21:10
ikarusoh, that reminds me, did they end up without the HDMI in the end, I dropped out of that discussion before it got finalized21:11
ikarusI'd assume they did given that every reference to it got erased21:11
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mcfriskCould I suggest using 'set -u -e -o pipefail' in scripts like mount-sd.sh ? I'd like things like that fail early..21:13
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AL13N_lizzypp_: btw: thanks!21:18
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Nicd-micko_: press and hold on the app icon, then click the X that appears21:22
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micko_that removes the program also and not just the icon?21:27
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FireFlyAFAIK, yes21:28
Nicd-micko_: yes21:28
micko_ok, thanks21:29
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AL13N_lizzycan anyone tell me if the SIM for jolla is regular, micro, or apparently there's also a nano version???21:36
AL13N_lizzyi assumed micro, but didn't know there was a nano version?21:36
Nicd-AL13N_lizzy: micro21:36
Nicd-nano is used in some iphones, regular is not used anywhere anymore I think21:36
Nicd-at least nearly anywhere21:37
AL13N_lizzyisn't regular still used in "real" phones?21:37
specialwhat you're calling regular is mini SIM - they are still used sometimes21:37
specialhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/GSM_SIM_card_evolution.svg that shows what a full-size SIM looks like ;)21:37
nanderregular is like a credit card in size ;)21:38
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Nicd-nander: actually if you take a look at your credit card, it even has the same pin arrangements21:39
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mcfriskQ: are gallery and media player scanning all mounted filesystems for content files, or just /home/nemo?21:48
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ShadowJKI had a phone which used full size sim card :)21:52
Accedoes someone here know if there is somekind of notification method in silica or should I just implement my own?21:52
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TurskiNicd-: i wonder when our credit cards will be nano size...21:52
Accesomething to display errors etc. info21:52
Nicd-Turski: they're already easy enough to lose :P21:53
Turski:)21:53
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dist_https://twitter.com/dist/status/413786259791032320 <- can anyone answer that question or give me a fresh (never read by Jolla) OH to play with? =)21:54
Venemohey21:54
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Venemodist: I don't think anyone here knows yet21:56
distDoes anyone have a nfc reader and orange OH?21:56
dist(or any other than white, with nfc)21:56
Nicd-dist: isn't it just in the serial or some id?21:57
distNicd-: Maybe, does it just look up it with an UID and get the ambience for that exact unique id?21:58
AL13N_lizzydist: interesting, so there's still stuff left to put data in?21:58
distI find it quite weird that they'd have a database of all covers that they have ever produced.21:58
AL13N_lizzymaybe put some kind of security key in it... for opening keychains :-)21:58
distAL13N_lizzy: Yeah, you can encode your own urls or bluetooth connections or wlan accesspoint stuff on the "card" if you want to.21:59
AL13N_lizzydist: i assume when registering, they will have the serial and imei, or when clicking it on, and it tests to see if there's no content to be downloaded from the store21:59
AL13N_lizzyi had thought the NFC was very basic22:00
Nicd-dist: yes, I think they just have an ID and that will be used to check the store if it has a custom theme22:00
AL13N_lizzybut this is good news!22:00
AL13N_lizzythis means that they actually can do more stuff for this in the future22:00
AL13N_lizzyNicd-: or other content/settings/rpms22:00
Nicd-exaactly22:00
Nicd--a22:00
AL13N_lizzyheh22:00
Nicd-dist: I would find it quite weird if they *didn't* have a database of all the cover models they have produced :P22:01
distNicd-: I'd just encode the theme in the ndef somehow. But I'm lazy. =D22:01
Nicd-but then you can't update it22:02
Nicd-looking it up from the store with an ID is much more flexible22:02
AL13N_lizzyyes, i like it this way, it's open, it has possibilities for the future, depending on what community likes22:02
distWhy would you need to?22:02
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AL13N_lizzywe can put our own stuff on it, so that's nice22:03
distIt would just say that it's the white cover, no electiricity, no i2c, just this ambience.22:03
distAL13N_lizzy: yeah. Except is't impossible to read with anything else if it's attached to the phone =D22:03
AL13N_lizzydist: is it?22:04
distWell, the phone can read it of course but that's about it.22:04
AL13N_lizzythe distance isn't _that_ great22:04
distIt seems to be. My NFC reader just doesn't get anything when the phone is just closer than 1cm from the cover, turned off, no battery22:04
AL13N_lizzyif you hold the back of the phone against a reader device, it should pick it up too, doesn't it?22:04
distIf I move the phone away the tag gets read.22:05
AL13N_lizzyic22:05
AL13N_lizzymaybe the phone reader can communicate with other NFC apparel?22:05
distactually, make that about 2.5cm atleast if the phone is powered on.22:06
distoops. actually just about the same if it isn't22:06
distoh well.22:06
AL13N_lizzymaybe (after firmware update) the phone NFC can communicate with other NFC communication stuff22:07
AL13N_lizzylike for phone-phone bluetooth pairing or something22:07
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distI think that's not what they promised though. Just phone <-> oh comms on nfc. Though well. That might still mean active peer to peer comms. Maybe.22:08
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AL13N_lizzydist: we'll have to see22:09
AL13N_lizzybut still, i like that the tag is open22:09
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AL13N_lizzydist: at least for now, it means that since it's open, no other person can actually overwrite it :-)22:10
AL13N_lizzyif you connect it to the phone22:10
AL13N_lizzymaybe it's on purpose even22:10
AL13N_lizzywho knows :-)22:10
AL13N_lizzylike a jamming signal or something22:10
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ln-cool, i installed netflix on jolla, and it works nicely22:16
distAL13N_lizzy: Yeah. And you can't be tracked by that since more or less nothing can read it.. =D22:17
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CoderCandySoo, first day after 3 weeks waiting period over, no message from jolla :(22:20
CoderCandyI'm REALLY impatient xD22:20
AL13N_lizzydist: yes... don't you think this is a very good feature?22:21
distCoderCandy: waiting for what?22:21
CoderCandyJolla :P22:21
CoderCandyI paid for my preorder 28th of November22:22
AL13N_lizzythey did say they would ship all of those on time before christmas22:22
CoderCandyand today is 3 weeks from that date22:22
CoderCandyI know22:22
CoderCandyChristmas is on tuesday I think22:22
AL13N_lizzywednesday, actually22:22
distAL13N_lizzy: Yes! I have just no idea how to actually make any real use of it. =D22:22
AL13N_lizzydist: you can't write to it?22:22
CoderCandyOh, well, still... I WANT MY JOLLA xD22:23
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AL13N_lizzydist: we'll have to wait until they are opening up the NFC api22:23
AL13N_lizzyCoderCandy: so, do i, but, i only ordered not even an hour ago22:23
distAh. And this seems to work in airplane mode too.. =D22:24
CoderCandyAL13N_lizzy, uhm, that might be a problem, what ordernumber do you have?22:24
AL13N_lizzyCoderCandy: i'm embarrassed to say22:24
CoderCandyI have order number #200003045... and they haven't shipped mine yet :P22:24
AL13N_lizzybut, i let it deliver at work22:24
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AL13N_lizzyso, i'm if it's not there in 4weeks, i'll send an email to care@22:24
CoderCandyIf mine isn't shipped when December is over, I'll try to claim a complementary t-shirt xD22:25
AL13N_lizzythe first one T-shirt?22:26
CoderCandyYeah :P22:26
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tobiskimodified version: the "first" one22:26
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AL13N_lizzyhaha22:26
AL13N_lizzytobiski: the " 's are important :-)22:26
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tobiskiyup22:27
AL13N_lizzyanyway, i hear that it's possible that The first one TOH, might contain future extra's22:27
AL13N_lizzyso, i have no chance of that happening, you lucky bastards22:28
tobiskime neither, have only the basic white OH22:28
AL13N_lizzytobiski: you didn't prepay?22:28
tobiskiI did, but in second wave22:29
tobiskiand I got that beanie!22:29
tobiskithe first one oh was for first-wavers22:29
AL13N_lizzywhat is a beanie?22:29
tobiskicap, hat22:29
AL13N_lizzypic or it didn't happen22:29
AL13N_lizzy:-)22:29
specialare there any apk downloaders for google play that still work and aren't chrome extensions?22:30
HarhaanJohtajahttp://store.makiaclothing.com/accessories/makia-x-jolla-cap-12199.html22:30
AL13N_lizzytobiski: make your good looking sister wear the hat22:30
artemmaAL13N_lizzy: https://twitter.com/AgileArtem/status/41374138870740582422:30
artemmapretty cool hat actually22:30
tobiskiI don't like the color of it :(22:30
artemmaNo huge branding22:30
AL13N_lizzysailor hat22:31
AL13N_lizzylol22:31
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AL13N_lizzytobiski: maybe your goodlooking sister does like the color22:31
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* AL13N_lizzy hints22:31
AL13N_lizzyHarhaanJohtaja: that store doesn't work22:32
AL13N_lizzyor at least not for me22:32
AJAX555oh, they are shipping those Pipos already?22:32
AL13N_lizzyPipos?22:32
AJAX555those in that twitter link22:32
tobiskiAL13N_lizzy: how do you know I have sisters!22:32
AL13N_lizzyAJAX555: oic22:33
AL13N_lizzytobiski: >_>22:33
AL13N_lizzytobiski: but seriously, do it, and take a pic with jolla and show us how good the quality is!22:33
HarhaanJohtajahmm that link does not work for me anymore22:33
HarhaanJohtajamaybe too many peole from this channel try to et there22:34
AL13N_lizzyHarhaanJohtaja: too much request for sailor hat :-)22:34
tobiskiAL13N_lizzy: we'll see ;)22:34
tobiskiHarhaanJohtaja: that link worked for me 5 mins ago also22:34
tobiskinow it loaded22:34
AL13N_lizzyfor me now too22:34
AL13N_lizzytook quite a while though22:34
tobiskiuser peak was too damn high for makia's servers22:35
AL13N_lizzy5 users?22:35
tobiskimax22:35
AL13N_lizzyi don't think so, it's more likely to be a hiccup22:35
specialalternatively: does anyone have that apk downloading extension for chrome that would be willing to do me a favor?22:36
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AL13N_lizzythough it's probably some of those outsider links that will be the problem22:36
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AL13N_lizzyspecial: you can't just use the firefox Fake User-agent thing?22:36
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specialI don't know what that is?22:36
AL13N_lizzyuser-agent is a string identifying the browser/OS when accessing web content22:37
AL13N_lizzyyou can override this with FF extensions22:37
specialI do know what that is, but that's not the problem22:37
specialI want an apk from google play, but the only way I can find to download one is a chrome extension22:37
AL13N_lizzymake you detect to be a windows, or an android phone22:37
AL13N_lizzyyou see what i mean?22:38
* tbr just installed play store, works fine22:39
distspecial: which one?22:39
specialcom.babbel.mobile.android.en. But I might just dig up a tablet to play with it instead22:40
specialtbr: O not putting google play on a development phone :p22:40
specialO = I'm22:40
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specialanyway, nevermind.22:41
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cvpspecial , hello ;)22:42
cvpdo you know a way over terminal that i can mark all my over 900 emails as read  ? :D22:42
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specialcan you not mark them as read using a real desktop email client?22:43
cvpnope22:43
cvpi use pop322:43
AL13N_lizzywho uses pop3 anymore, this means mails you fetch from phone are not fetch from your pc and such22:44
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AL13N_lizzybtw: anyone made a cacert app yet?22:45
cvphuh ? ... i can reciev mails on phone and desktop over pop3, no problems22:45
distAL13N_lizzy: hmm?22:46
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WaRiOany news for virtual keyboard?22:48
cvpwhat do you want ? Swype ?22:49
AJAX555so, can I connect jolla to my laptop using bluetooth?22:50
AJAX555or do I need usb cable?22:50
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cvpgood night @all22:54
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distAJAX555: connect to do what?22:55
AJAX555so I can access files on jolla22:55
WaRiOmy mistake22:55
WaRiOphysical keyboard22:55
tobiskiAJAX555: I found the phone on my laptop and managed to pair the devices but after few seconds the connection is lost22:56
AJAX555tobiski: using bluetooth?22:56
tobiskiyes22:56
AJAX555okay22:56
AJAX555so, it is possible22:56
distAJAX555: Dunno, for that usb works fine. Or dev mode and ssh.. =D22:56
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AL13N_lizzydist: yes?23:01
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distAL13N_lizzy: cacert.. to manage certs on the phone? add custom, disable etc.. or do what?23:03
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AL13N_lizzydist: i presume just to install the cacert root certificate(s)23:06
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petantikCan we use the phone as a wireless hotspot?23:07
AL13N_lizzypetantik: probably, if you know what to do on cli23:09
AL13N_lizzypetantik: someone did find some semi-easy thing here: http://elinux.org/Jolla#How_do_I_enable_WiFi_tethering.3F23:09
tobiskitested it, worked23:10
distWoot. nfc chip pn544 in the phone.23:10
petantikAL13N_lizzy: I expect sailfish support will come soon!23:10
AL13N_lizzypetantik: maybe, though i think this is not one of their priorities23:11
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AL13N_lizzydist: if you like, you can put such info in the http://elinux.org/Jolla page, (or someplace else)23:11
petantikAL13N_lizzy: I would hope enterprise features would be a priority. wifi hotspot is just a nice to have until that time23:12
AL13N_lizzypetantik: enterprise? Jolla is hardly a likely enterprise phone23:12
AL13N_lizzypetantik: what kind of enterprise features did you have in mind?23:12
petantikAL13N_lizzy: For me. I want to use it as a daily phone. I spend my day at work. Exchange provisioning. 802.1x auth etc.23:13
AL13N_lizzyoh ok23:13
AL13N_lizzypetantik: i thought you meant something like a management software for hundreds of Jolla phones and such23:14
AL13N_lizzyi thought xchng sync worked?23:14
petantikAL13N_lizzy: Right now I keep my android since I have those. The wifi hotspot allows me to use the android phone to connect via the jolla 3g.23:14
AL13N_lizzy802.1x is probably possibly in cli, though not in UI yet, (i think this might come soon)23:14
AL13N_lizzypetantik: if you have devmode and wpa_supplicant is installed, you possibly could add the network manually23:15
petantikAL13N_lizzy: I assume that to be the case. I was hoping to find out if there was a way to create a wpa_supplicant based profile the native app could pick up.23:16
* AL13N_lizzy does not have a Jolla yet23:16
AL13N_lizzypetantik: unsure, but i imagine it uses wpa_supplicant for wpa connectivity, so it probably just has /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf or something23:16
AL13N_lizzyunless it uses something else for wpa23:16
AL13N_lizzybut if it does, i imagine the native app would just pick that up and use it23:17
petantikAL13N_lizzy: I think not using wpa_supplicant would be foolish. I think android uses it too23:17
AL13N_lizzypetantik: i haven't kept track... possibly it can connect to wpa natively by now, who knows23:18
AL13N_lizzy(ie: without wpa_supplicant requirement)23:18
AL13N_lizzypetantik: the only way to be sure is to check :-)23:19
AL13N_lizzyanyway, time to sleep23:19
AL13N_lizzytata23:19
petantikbye23:19
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tanghusWTF? To get my phone to Copenhagen, they fly Finland -> Sweden -> France -> ?23:28
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petantiktanghus: might be cheaper if they go via that route.23:30
tanghuspetantik: As long as I get it in my hand by tomorrow :)23:31
Aardtanghus: they can do russia-sweden-germany-sweden-germany-sweden-germany-sweden-helsinki as well23:31
mcfriskhmm, wlan just 'disconnected' with notifications while playing some bigger video files. root dmesg shows some odd looking messages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=BnXiUFrp23:31
tanghusROFL Aard23:31
AL13N_lizzyAard: ^^ mcfrisk thing... do you know who might know more about what happened?23:35
Aardwhich thing?23:35
AL13N_lizzythat link above23:35
Aardno23:35
AL13N_lizzyi've looked at it, but i have no clue what HDD wifi is, hostarpmode seems something like a AP mode thing though23:36
AL13N_lizzyAard: i meant, what dev that is sometimes here, could explain the logs?23:36
AL13N_lizzyor rather the terms used23:36
AL13N_lizzymcfrisk: maybe you should email devel@lists.sailfishos.org ?23:37
mcfriskAL13N_lizzy: ok, also trying to reproduce.23:38
AL13N_lizzyi doubt it's easily reproducable23:38
AL13N_lizzythough it might23:38
AL13N_lizzythe signal 9 to dbus looks suspicious23:39
mcfriskyep23:39
AL13N_lizzyunless they don't mean kill signals23:39
AL13N_lizzybut QT signals23:39
AL13N_lizzyafaict it looks like it ends a child process23:40
AL13N_lizzyprobably a provider related to what ever shut down23:40
AL13N_lizzymaybe that dse process is in some sort of race condition deadlock which means it's not being killed off23:42
AL13N_lizzy(or something)23:42
AL13N_lizzyok, i really need to go sleep now23:42
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mcfriskme too, but video playback on jolla feels better than my old Thinkpad T60, for those codecs that work out of the box.23:43
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tachikom1awesome23:47
tachikom1knights and dragnons works on jolla23:47
tachikom1the only game i played on mt tablet23:47
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distdo you guys have python on jolla?23:50
specialyes23:50
disteven after the upgrade?23:51
specialwhat upgrade?23:51
distWas it 1.0.1.1223:51
distoh well, the os upgrade =D23:51
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specialshouldn't have anything to do with python23:52
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distright, I wonder why the hell I don't have it on the phone =D23:52
Turskidist: have you installed it?23:52
distGuess not =D23:52
Turskimaybe that's why?23:52
specialit's not pulled in by anything in the release image, afaik23:52
distTurski: Ah. How? =D23:53
specialmy only explicit user seems to be ofono-tests23:53
Turskipkcon install python23:53
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distright, thanks23:53
tachikom1google maps works as well :)23:53
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