#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2014-01-15

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Aardspecial: yes, yes.00:08
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Elleocan anyone reproduce this: Open the Notes app, type a capital T. Does it display?02:04
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Elleofor me it shows a blank character, but only with capital T02:04
covoxT appears fine here02:05
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Elleoodd :/02:05
specialElleo: does that happen for all capital T inside Notes?02:05
covoxdoes it persist when you restart the device?02:05
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Elleospecial: yep02:07
Elleocovox: haven't tried yet, will do in the morning02:08
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specialand it should go away if you close notes or restart the device02:08
Elleoif it persists I'll make a bug report02:08
specialI've seen it before, many many months ago02:08
specialand never reproducibly. The glyph for a certain letter fails to cache/upload properly02:08
Elleoah yes, just restarting notes seems to do it02:08
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Elleothis bug is brought to you by letter " "02:09
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covoxbe  er luck next  ime02:10
Elleoheh02:10
covoxand I screwed it up :(02:10
Elleoon the train I was trying to come up with a bug report that only used words starting with the letter t02:10
specialiirc we had an internal bug report about it for awhile, but it was eventually closed since nobody could reproduce it.02:13
covox"the trouble typing T totally taints this"02:13
Elleoheh02:14
covox(I fell over at finding a T word to describe a mobile device)02:14
covoxTELEPHONE02:14
covoxgoddamnit02:14
Elleohah02:14
specialhaha02:15
covoxit's early, I need booze02:15
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Siddevanadis: mine was in "shipping" for almost 2 weeks. Helsinki to Stockholm to Paris to Stockholm and because fedex does not exist this far up north. The Swedish Postal service took over and delivered it to my door.06:34
Siddevanadis: do you have a tracking number you could check at fedex where your package is06:34
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Siddevanadis: but it took almost a week before the status "shipping" was linked to a tracking id06:36
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Nicd-Yaniel: ohar, where are you?08:14
Yanielhmm?08:16
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Nicd-ohjelmistoarkkitehtuurit08:16
Stskeepsmorn08:16
Yanieltietorakenteet08:18
Yanielmornin Stskeeps08:18
* vegai hits Nicd- with a pipe08:18
Nicd-Yaniel: meh08:18
Nicd-vegai: wat08:18
vegaiit's an architec.... ahh nevermind08:19
Sfiet_Konstantinmorning everybody08:19
Nicd-what are you saying vegai?08:19
vegainothing that makes sense08:20
* AL13N_work slaps some sense into vegai with a sailfish08:20
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atlazFight boys, and i'll give you tobacco08:21
Kiranos_Sidde: so they deliver the phone to the door?08:22
atlazOld finnish proverb08:22
Kiranos_ugh I hate that08:22
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vegaiwhoa, they're pretty. http://cdn-imgs-mag.aeon.co/images/2013/02/sailfish-mexico.jpg08:24
vegaiand sharp08:24
suosaaskiand fast08:25
vegaieven prettier http://someinterestingfacts.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Sailfish.jpg08:25
vegaiaye08:25
suosaaski110km/h08:25
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Nicd-ooh, I can see *two* jolla users right this moment08:32
AL13N_workwat?08:32
Nicd-this is a new record08:32
AL13N_work110km/h ... under water?08:32
AL13N_workNicd-: ?08:32
Nicd-AL13N_work: at class08:32
AL13N_worklol08:32
Nicd-the other one is on IRC08:33
Nicd-look here!08:33
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Hartziwut08:42
Nicd-seems he's not on this channel :(08:42
AL13N_workhahaha08:46
vanadisSidde, unfortunately i don't have a fedex-tracking number08:47
AL13N_workNicd-: have you tried #sailfishos ?08:47
Nicd-I don't want to spam08:47
vanadisSidde, i already tried the track-by-reference function at fedex.com08:48
pdanekvanadis: you can track by reference08:48
pdanekby order number08:48
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SiddeKiranos_: yes, with no phone call first. So i missed the first 2 delivery dates08:53
Kiranos_Sidde: around which time did you get the package?08:53
Kiranos_might have to order to work08:53
Kiranos_to door is good for company mail not personal :P08:54
Kiranos_sweden doesnt have house wifes08:54
ln-*wives08:54
Kiranos_..08:54
PnuuKiranos_: I hate when companies don't tell what kind of delivery they use08:54
Pnuuso I've ended up ordering most stuff to work08:54
SiddeKiranos_: Posten (the swedish postal service) tried between 9 and 10 every day08:56
Siddeand because it was a fedex package i had no means to make contant with the delivery man...08:57
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Siddeso i had to work from home08:57
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tango_hm apparently you can't get out of the "select wlan" thingie08:58
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Kiranos_Sidde: ok thanks looks like I'll be sending it to work. Probably even more expensive for jolla to ship it as that aswell..09:01
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Kiranos_Pnuu: yea packages from other contries is often good to send to work09:01
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netzviehis there a way to mark multiple emails read or is this an upcoming feature?09:47
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FireFlyNicd-: is that including or excluding yourself?10:01
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artemmaAnybody wanted to share excitement about Jolla to friends, but too embarrassed of some problem, so don't dare to have a demo? Share at https://together.jolla.com/question/15102/what-is-most-embarrassing-in-your-jolla-device-what-makes-you-not-show-it-to-your-friends-if-anything-really-the-top-things-no-minor-issues/ and let's figure out the top things10:31
artemmano minor stuff, so "own usage" stuff, only things that are preventing you from even demoing to your friends (possibly you have zero such issues)10:32
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Nicd-FireFly: excluding10:37
micko_has anyone browsed jolla over usb with kde and dolphin? I installed everything related to mtp, but that only got device notificator to notice jolla. Still can't browse it10:39
micko_I'm running gentoo so if the problem most likely is because of myself, but I'm just checking if it's more common10:39
suosaaskiSo... a coworker has a weird issue (probably a setting?) with Jolla. He gets email occasionally with like 6 pictures. And the email-app decides to randomly download a few of them to gallery?10:43
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micko_same here10:47
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pawky|3Is it just me or is the mail client a bit buggy? When wanting to read recieved mail you swipe right to either only get a blank white page, or extremely tiny characters that, when you zoom in, just locks like a low res picture... :-(11:08
pawky|3It's not always though...11:08
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pawky|3When getting a white page, one has to swipe left again, choose mail and swipe right and you get the mail. If however you get the low res picture variation, you are lost beyond hope...11:09
yanooit's a known bug AFAIK11:10
yanooyeah11:11
pawky|3yanoo: great to hear11:11
yanoohttps://together.jolla.com/question/1388/bug-clicking-on-email-notification-opens-blank-e-mail/11:11
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pawky|3yanoo: and the other variation of tiny font, and when zooming in, a tiny font zoomed in? :)11:11
pawky|3It seems to only happen with mail polled from an exchange server11:12
yanoouh, I don't know, didn't have such problem. Check on together.jolla.com ;)11:12
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Kiranos_yanoo: nice thread!11:25
Kiranos_praise is not as important for the device to grow than recogize the failures/issues11:26
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CoderCandyopen question, What's your favourite TOH concept?11:30
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Nicd-keyboard + xl battery11:31
Kiranos_CoderCandy: 90% external keyboard :P11:31
Kiranos_just like that..11:31
suosaaskiQwerty. Or perhaps something else that might be a bit similar to this (and apparently actually coming, too) http://lastucase.com/product/lastucase-for-iphone-5s/11:31
PnuuCoderCandy: hmm, I think I'd go for eInk display11:31
CoderCandyyeah, my top one is hw kbd as well11:32
CoderCandybut the oled/eink displays are awesome!11:32
suosaaskifor those cases with cover it is kinda interesting since it would not make the device much thicker as it would replace the other half11:32
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CoderCandyYeah, I wonder how manufacturing of OH will work, and if I can get my beloved åäö on the OH keyboard...11:34
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suosaaskiJust waiting for a lastucase for Jolla (even though I don't have a Jolla). If they make one, of course... ;)11:35
atlazWell... with Jolla being a finnish company would assume that the most users would be from Finland11:35
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CoderCandyWell since I'm from sweden I usually assume everyone thinks that the world onlt consists of the US11:38
CoderCandyonly*11:38
CoderCandyI phrased that in a really bad way...11:38
atlazYeah, but since most of the phones users are in the nordic countries, one would assume that the manufacturers of the TOHs and other stuff would build the things for the environment of where the most users are11:39
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suosaaskiI wonder how much thicker the Jolla would be with a qwerty, though...11:39
Pnuusuosaaski: me too11:40
pawky|3like tne N900 i presume11:40
pawky|3maybe one could create a Windows RT like keyboard :-)11:40
pawky|3as a cover :-)11:40
Skorpywouldn't work with such a small device11:41
pawky|3well, if the screen keyboards work, then surely a cover one will do even better...11:41
Pnuuthe hwkb should be useable with thumbs while holding the phone11:41
Skorpyyea11:41
pawky|3Pnuu: good point11:41
suosaaskispeaking of which, it is a surprisingly "ok" keyboard (Surface Touch, that is)11:41
SkorpyI agree11:41
pawky|3suosaaski: I agree...11:41
pawky|3:-D11:41
pawky|3Wish I had it on my samsung11:42
atlazBefore i want the HWKB i'd really like for horizontal-mode-typing11:42
pawky|3atlaz: ?but you can already...11:42
suosaaskipawky|3: I wish I had one for my iPad, but... not exactly like it, surface with keyboard is unusable when on lap11:43
pawky|3atlaz: in the terminal that is...11:43
atlazpawky|3: yeah but typing messages and browsing11:43
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pawky|3suosaaski: I agree..  but who works with computers in ones lapp for longer times?11:43
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suosaaskiwell, for example when traveling with a train.11:47
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Pnuuor sitting on a sofa11:47
pawky|3Bad ergonomics...11:47
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suosaaskiI often sit on a sofa and use my ipad :)11:48
pawky|3suosaaski: with keyboard?11:48
suosaaskino, don't have a keyboard, the touch keyboard is also "ok" and I have gotten used to it :)11:48
pawky|3suosaaski: There you go then... :-D11:49
suosaaskiI would like to have a keyboard, though, just haven't found a good one. The biggest problem being that most keyboards have replaced the esc key with home key11:49
pawky|3suosaaski: cannot be to hard to patch...11:49
pawky|3suosaaski: in the os...11:50
suosaaskinot planning on jailbraking my ipad ;)11:50
pawky|3suosaaski: you should11:50
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suosaaskinah.11:50
pawky|3suosaaski: or else you are a slave under whatever will be provided...11:51
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suosaaskitouch keyboard is fine on the ipad mini. With a larger tablet it gets uncomfortable as I should switch away from typing with my thumbs.11:51
pawky|3suosaaski: Getting root, and reflashing things are the first thing I do on all my gadgets...11:51
atlaz*destroying my warranty is the first...11:52
narchiemuh11:52
pawky|3atlaz: well, I doubt any company really would like to try that one in court..11:52
suosaaskiipad works nice enough without a jailbreak to make it worth it.11:52
pawky|3atlaz: where I live at least...11:52
pawky|3You need to control your gadgets11:53
pawky|3thats one of the reasons why I support Jolla11:53
Nicd-first thing I did with my ipod was to jailbreak it11:53
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pawky|3Nicd: way to go :-)11:53
suosaaskithere really is nothing that I need that I would benefit from if it was jailbroken.11:53
atlazOnly reason i've rooted and flashed my devices is because the manufacturer doesn't provide updates anymore11:54
atlazhaven't really had a reason before that11:54
Nicd-I did it because I wanted last.fm scrobbling live11:54
pawky|3first thing I did with my samsung Note, my HTC, my Samsung Ativa, my HP iPAQ 4500, Asus TF101....11:54
tj____is there any plans to improve the browser in jolla in upcoming updates? the fact that it always reloads the page in a tab after switching to another tab and then back to the original tab instead of keeping it in the cache makes it pretty much useless for me.. running the android firefox here..11:54
Pnuutj____: yes11:55
atlaztj____: there has to be11:55
atlazIt's by far the worst browser ever11:55
atlazIt's like IE6 but with "tabs"11:55
Pnuuhttps://together.jolla.com/questions/scope:all/sort:votes-desc/tags:roadmap/page:1/11:55
pawky|3atlaz: nah, not the worst....11:55
suosaaskipawky|3: I understand why some do it, I just want it to work day in, day out.11:55
Pnuubrowser is there atleast twice11:55
CoderCandyI dont buy apple products at all :p11:55
tj____Pnuu, cool11:56
pawky|3suosaaski: rooting them, or replacing with linux, will not change this need..11:56
CoderCandyI acknowledge that they objectively make good products11:56
pawky|3CoderCandy: I second that... if not replacing it with linux OS11:56
suosaaskipawky|3: but it does not benefit me, either :)11:56
CoderCandybut I sacrifice the privilege of using them.cause of ideological reasons11:56
Pnuutj____: but install webcat from the store, native browser11:56
pawky|3Wherever I go, other OSes goes out the windows, Linux get in :-D11:56
suosaaskiyou are too picky :)11:57
narchielinux ipad11:57
CoderCandyhehe, same here, except on my gaming desktop11:57
atlazsuosaaski: you're looking for the word "fanatic"11:57
suosaaskiwindows, linux, osx, ios, wp, meego, sailfish, android... everything welcome by me as long as it works :)11:57
pawky|3CoderCandy: I don't do gaming, but I do understand the dilemma11:57
CoderCandy(that might change if valve manages to shift the industry)11:58
pawky|3suosaaski: Hell no, only OS'es where you have control.. or else no security..11:58
CoderCandywell this is my stop, see you around guys!11:59
suosaaskicurrently we have (at home) two iphones, two ipads, one android tablet, one windows 8.1 tablet, one osx desktop and one windows 8.1 + linux laptop :)11:59
pawky|3CoderCandy: cheers11:59
pawky|3suosaaski: well, then you will have quite a bit of work infront of you, replacing them all with a solid OS... :-)12:00
suosaaskipawky|3: they are all solid :)12:00
pawky|3suosaaski: Hardware wise, might be, but I am talking about OS here... and as long as you mention Windows, solid is a no can do..12:01
suosaaskiwell, the android one is a bit... ummm... toy-ish, but usable.12:01
pawky|3suosaaski: The very one having a linux kernel..12:01
sremesunless you audit the source code of all software that you use, I don't really see the difference12:01
* KaIRC wants a 100% open/free-as-in-speech mobile OS - but that will be a dream for still a while to come, given all the binary/non-open drivers that devices still require12:02
pawky|3sremes: Well have a go at it with microsoft code..12:02
suosaaskipawky|3: yes indeed. So the kernel does not do anything to it. (did you not notice that the laptop also has linux?)12:02
Nicd-sremes: the difference is if you trust a company or a community12:02
pawky|3Nicd-: I'll go for community12:02
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suosaaskithinking of changint that windows tablet and laptop to a newer model windows tablet that might do the job of both.12:03
pawky|3suosaaski: No way on earth I will ever have any Windows machine running in my house, no matter whom might own it..12:04
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pawky|3suosaaski: Or, microsoft product that is..12:04
suosaaskiI have tried finding a solid OS for a Fujitsu Q550 at work, but that is just not gonna happen. It is just too shit. No Linux has ever ran smoothly on it. Neither has Windows 8(.1). Android is crap too. Maybe it would be better to just burn the damn thing :)12:04
pawky|3suosaaski: Debian :-)12:05
sremespawky|3, Nicd-: well, there is of course the point, whether it's possible to do the auditing, or who can do it. and for the record, I also prefer linux where I can12:05
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suosaaskipawky|3: nah, it would have to have a usable touch UI. Ubuntu ran like shit on it.12:05
pawky|3sremes: The community can :-)12:05
krnlyngi am porting mupen64plus to sailfish, does anybody want to write a simple gui for it :)?12:05
pawky|3suosaaski: Android..12:06
suosaaskiso shit that when I tried changing to another, lighter, ui on it, I gave up cos it was too slow :)12:06
suosaaskipawky|3: it currently has android.12:06
pawky|3suosaaski: Then root it, and be free :-)12:06
chem|sto/12:07
suosaaskirooting won't do anything for it. The hardware is just crap.12:07
suosaaskiI think I tried everything there is to try and that might be worth trying.12:07
suosaaskimaybe xubuntu or lubuntu might be ok, but I highly doubt they are "touch friendly"12:08
Nicd-wait till you can put sailfish on it :)12:08
suosaaskiNicd-: I was waiting for it, actually, but seems no-one wants to even try :)12:08
suosaaskiThen again, running Sailfish on my Dell Latitude 10 might actually be a nice experience, if it worked without issues.12:09
pawky|3Nicd-: Sailfish on my Samsung Note would be great! if it also means one will be able to put in Alien Dalvik...12:09
suosaaskiwell, not mine actually, it is from work.12:09
suosaaskibut still.12:10
pawky|3suosaaski: First thing I did at work, threw out the crapy pre installed windows on the machine and put in openSUSE..12:10
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suosaaskiwe run mainly windows at work. Almost all linux installs are more of "lab" installs than production.12:11
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pawky|3suosaaski: Well, if they want my services, then Linux it is...12:14
suosaaskiprobably don't want, then :)12:15
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tj____Pnuu, tried webcat, looks promising but doesn't seem to support http basic auth12:22
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tj____but a lot of activity in the store/app department since last time i checked (a couple of weeks ago), looks really great12:23
tillcan someone tell me if it's possible to start an apk via fingerterm?12:23
pawky|3till: I believe you can just use the file browser for that...12:24
Jopelook at the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/ for clues12:24
tillthx12:24
tj____till, xdg-open /path/to/file ?12:24
Jopexdg-open will install it12:24
Jopethe question was about running them?12:25
tillyes, i want to run an android application from shell12:25
pawky|3Jope: you don't really 'run' them, do you?12:25
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Jopeyep, to be precise - you don't run the actual apk itself12:25
Jopethere is a script that is used to start them12:26
pawky|3wont, pkcon also install apk files?12:26
Jopethe desktop files hold the answer12:26
Jopepkcon will not12:26
Jopeas far as I remember12:26
pawky|3Jope: most package managers will...12:26
tillseems i need "apkd-launcher path-to-apk path-to-main12:27
till"12:27
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nadrielIs there a date set for the January update?12:30
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suosaaskihttp://www.insmat.fi/fi/tuotteet/matkapuhelintarvikkeet/kotelot-suojalaukut/tuote/650-2088_exclusive-flip-case-for-jolla-phone-black anyone have any idea what that is like?12:35
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nadrielsuosaaski: It's not even in their store yet.12:53
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suosaaskinadriel: nope. And that states availability for February.12:58
suosaaskiAlso waiting for the Lastu case.12:58
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nadrielWhat's that?12:58
suosaaskihttp://lastucase.com/product/lastucase-for-iphone-5s/ there's the iphone model12:59
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suosaaskiand maybe a Jolla version is on the way :)12:59
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Kiranos_whats special about that nothing more than a case?13:02
nadrielLook is premium at least. : ) Itegrated to the TOH would be nice.13:02
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suosaaskiKiranos_: looks nice, and... maybe... just maybe... they are designing a case in co-operation with Jolla :) Who knows... :)13:02
nadrielOr replacing TOH with some solution.13:02
Kiranos_yea user base for them to do jolla I bet is really slim at best13:03
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jaykihello :)13:03
atlazI wonder if you could build a TOH flip case what would power on the screen when the front cover is flipped open13:04
suosaaskiKiranos_: Finnish company, as is Jolla. And maybe I heard something, maybe not ;)13:04
atlazThen again, i enjoy the envious looks i get when i double tap my phone to turn the screen on13:04
suosaaskiI personally have that iPhone case and I quite like it.13:05
Kiranos_suosaaski: nice! hopefully you've heard something! :D13:05
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suosaaskiKiranos_: I hope so too.  :)13:06
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jaykiSomebody has an idea whats happening with my Phone? This screenshot is directly after a factory reset: https://together.jolla.com/upfiles/13896624923871743.png   :(13:34
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roborofor anyone thinking about a flip case for the jolla.. it would be nice to have a camera lens protector like the old n900 one... something you can slide open and shut....13:35
roboroideally... if built into TOH... the lens protector could be used to trigger opening the camera app or something like that13:35
jaykii like your idea ;)13:36
vegaijayki: what's the problem there?13:36
vegaior did you just get a shell after a factory reset? :P13:36
jaykiMy SPace is full, directly after a factory reset13:36
vegaiah, that13:37
jaykii just can't do the update or something... it's full -.-.13:37
vegaican you do du | sort -n13:37
jaykijep13:37
jaykihave a look here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=140657813:37
jaykithere i did some things ;)13:37
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jaykidu | sort -n gives me "[root@localhost ~]# du | sort -n13:38
jayki24    "13:38
vegaihuh, is jolla / btrfs?13:38
Stskeepsyes13:38
vegaijayki: you ran that in root's home dir?13:38
vegaiperhaps du / | sort -n13:39
vegaiStskeeps: huh. TIL.13:39
jaykisorry :D13:39
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jaykinow it's running ;)13:39
jaykii think this will take some time...13:39
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AL13N_workbtrfs filesystem du /13:40
AL13N_workmight take less time13:40
jaykiokay ;) will do this, too13:40
vegaisailfish is like a magpie technologist's wet dream13:41
jaykihttp://pastebin.com/T1TKAGJb  cut this a bit13:41
jaykibtrfs filesystem du / don't work13:42
jaykibtrfs filesystem: unknown token 'du'13:42
jaykii think with btrfs filesystem only df is possible ;)13:43
vegaithat command without "du" :)13:43
vegaior wait, nevermind.13:43
vegaino idea what btrfs takes as parameters, disregard13:43
jaykiokay :D13:45
jaykii just don't have any idea what this is....13:45
jaykithe space is full, but there are no big files :(13:45
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jaykimaybe the factory-reset image/snapshot is faulty here?13:46
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AL13N_workbtrfs has 2 commands for diskusage13:53
AL13N_workdf and something else13:53
AL13N_worki forgot13:53
jaykimaybe show? but i think this is not disk usage13:54
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jayki[root@localhost /]# btrfs filesystem show13:55
jaykiLabel: 'sailfish'  uuid: 0f8a2490-53ed-4ff6-ba34-b81df343038713:55
jayki        Total devices 1 FS bytes used 13.08GB13:55
jayki        devid    1 size 13.75GB used 13.75GB path /dev/mmcblk0p2813:55
AL13N_workyes, show13:55
Raimthis might explain some things: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#Why_are_there_so_many_ways_to_check_the_amount_of_free_space.3F13:55
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AL13N_workjayki: well, if you are out of disk space, you could add a device to the / with a btrfs filesystem on your µSD13:56
jaykiyes i could, but i'm out of disk space right after a factory reset13:56
jaykibefore, i had 10gigs free space13:56
jaykiand i think normally a factory-reset should just erase everything13:57
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AL13N_workdoesn't it keep the vault?13:57
AL13N_workfactory reset should remove the snapshot and make a new one as a snapshot of the factory_reset snapshot13:58
AL13N_workiinm13:58
AL13N_workunless factory reset is writable, i don't see how this happens13:58
jaykido you know where the snapshot is located?13:59
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jaykii mean the factory-reset snapshot for recovery13:59
jaykimy idea is just, that this image is faulty14:00
AL13N_workbtrfs filesystem list ?14:00
AL13N_workor something14:00
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AL13N_workbtrfs subvolume list14:00
AL13N_workjayki: you know, try "btrfs help"14:00
javispedroI guess you want 'btrfs subvolume list /'14:01
jaykiokay i'll try14:01
javispedrobut this is "you may really brick the device" territory, and you need root.14:01
jaykihmmm14:01
Siddejayki: the old backups is in /home/nemo/.vault i think14:01
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jaykibtrfs subvolume list /14:02
jaykiID 259 gen 27814 top level 5 path @swap14:02
jaykiID 264 gen 27578 top level 5 path factory-@14:02
jaykiID 265 gen 27579 top level 5 path factory-@home14:02
jaykiID 280 gen 25096 top level 5 path rec-20140114_002326_@14:02
jaykiID 281 gen 25092 top level 5 path rec-20140114_002326_@home14:02
jaykiID 294 gen 25332 top level 5 path rec-20140114_013410_@14:02
jaykiID 295 gen 25331 top level 5 path rec-20140114_013410_@home14:02
jaykiID 300 gen 27871 top level 5 path @14:02
jaykiID 301 gen 27814 top level 5 path @home14:02
AL13N_workjayki: check how much space each take14:02
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AL13N_worksee where your all your space has gone to14:03
tbrjayki: keep in mind, that if the device stops booting, then you need to RMA it and messing with btrfs can lead to that.14:03
AL13N_workthe rec- could be something14:03
tbrI'd like to hear from a sailor familiar with this what to do. e.g. Aard might know14:03
jaykihmmm this not sounds really god :(14:04
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AL13N_worktbr: just checking doesn't hurt (if the snapshots are set readonly)14:04
AL13N_workit looks to me that there are 2 system backups14:04
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javispedrotbr: I suspect it's already a miracle it's booting with full rootfs14:04
jaykii think this too it's just checking14:04
Aardtbr: ?14:04
jaykiyes it's booting with full space14:05
AL13N_workif you really don't need anything, i'd remote the rec-* subvolumes14:05
AL13N_work*remove14:05
jaykihow to do that?14:05
AL13N_workbtrfs subvolume commands14:05
Siddelooks like others have similar problems too: https://together.jolla.com/question/14633/bug-factory-reset-no-storage-left/14:05
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AL13N_workthere's probably a delete or something14:05
javispedroAard: see above, jayki is experiencing no free space on / after "restore device to factory"14:05
jaykithis is my thread14:05
Siddeah, it's you :D14:05
AL13N_workjayki: just don't miss14:05
Aardwhere do those rec-* snapshots come from?14:06
AL13N_workAard: this is not something that system backup does?14:06
AL13N_worki assumed such14:06
AardAL13N_work: no, we currently don't create snapshots. it's on todo-list to do that14:06
jaykii tryed to factory reset with the recovery boot, too14:06
AL13N_worksince btrfs is COW, having snapshots will take considerable space14:07
jaykii think this comes from that14:07
AL13N_workaaah, recovery boot14:07
AL13N_workthat might be it14:07
Aardthe volumes which should be there are @swap factory-@ factory-@home @ and @home14:07
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jaykiso i can delete the others?14:08
Aardyes14:08
AL13N_workjust don't miss14:08
AL13N_workkeep in mind that space deallocation on btrfs might take a while (it's in the background)14:08
jaykiokay14:09
jaykii will delete them now, except of the @swap factory-@ factory-@home @ and @home14:09
AL13N_workAard: btw: if you do use snapshots for backup thing, or whatnot, keep a close eye on the disk usage of those14:10
jaykii just don't use it14:11
jaykibut14:11
AL13N_workthere's the atime duplication thing... and i'm not sure if 3.4 kernel has the mark snapshot as readonly thing14:11
jaykideleting them failed with "error accessing"14:11
AL13N_workjayki: are you in recovery mode right now?14:11
jaykino, i'm on ssh with fully booted14:11
AL13N_worki wonder what's using them14:11
Aardjayki:  mount -o subvolid=0 /dev/mmcblk0p28 /mnt/14:12
jaykinow there are on /mnt14:12
jaykiso i can delete?14:12
jaykiwith rm14:12
jayki?14:12
Aardthen you have the btrfs volume containing the snapshots mounted in /mnt, and can use the btrfs commands requiring the snapshots available14:12
AL13N_workaah14:12
Aardbtrfs subvolume delete?14:13
jaykiokay14:13
AL13N_worki didn't know you needed to have them mounted to delete them14:13
jaykii did tghis before mounting them14:13
jaykitry again ;)14:13
AardAL13N_work: it's an additional failsafe to avoid from users accidentally killing it14:13
AL13N_workok, fair enough14:13
jaykinow it's deleting :)14:13
AL13N_workAard: btw: the factory-@* subvolumes, are they marked readonly? i don't know if the 3.4 kernel actually had that14:14
AardAL13N_work: no, they're not14:14
jaykijep there writaable14:14
AL13N_workthat's too bad14:15
AL13N_workthe atime thing might be responsible for this issue14:15
* AL13N_work hopes to having a newer kernel some time later14:16
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jaykiso i've sucessfully deletet the rec snapshots14:16
jaykican i reboot now?14:16
pawky|3Am I the only one using the Jolla as my one and only phone?14:16
ballockpawky|3: no, I'm the other one ;)14:16
pawky|3ballock: Tricky, isn't it? :-)14:17
Aardpawky|3: probably. I'm not using it as only phone.14:17
sharpneliThere are 3 of us!14:17
* Aard uses more than one :p14:17
jayki:P14:17
Siddepawky|3: i do14:17
pawky|3Aard: jayki:  Three... is a crowd :-D14:17
Siddepawky|3: why have more phones?14:17
pawky|3Sidde: Due to its beta status..14:18
jaykiso after i deletet the snapshots i still have 11,4gigs used of my 14gigs14:18
ballockworksforme(TM)14:18
jaykimaybe the factory-@  or @home are still to big?14:18
Siddepawky|3: most android phones should be called that too14:18
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pawky|3Sidde: nah, the apps have matured on android  I would say.14:19
Siddepawky|3: yes. but the phone drivers have not14:19
jaykiso.-.. rebooting the phone, let's see if this helped ;)14:19
Siddepawky|3: most phones have so many different bugs with wifi, battery savings and so on that they are by my definition beta14:20
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Siddejayki: i hope it works. I've stopped working just to see how this goes14:20
pawky|3Sidde: Well, I am refering to functionality, not bugs14:20
Siddepawky|3: ah14:20
jaykithank you guys, it worked :)14:20
Siddejayki: still 11.4gb used though?14:21
jaykican i post this opn the threads in together and tmo?14:21
jaykino after reboot14:21
jaykiits only 1,5gig14:21
jaykithanks :)14:21
Siddecool14:21
* Sidde is back to work14:21
pawky|3Sidde: At the moment,  I haven't gotten the mail client to fetch mail from hotmail, something the N9 can...14:21
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jaykiAard can i post this on the threads ?14:22
jaykibecause i think, this could happen to someone else ;)14:22
Siddepawky|3: yes, mail is an issue... I haven't had time to configure mine yet. But will all the horror stories i don't know if it's even any idea to try14:23
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Aardjayki: you're free to post whatever you want. we (=jolla) don't recommend users to do that, though, as you can get your device ready for care if you mess up14:23
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Aardif you delete the factory-snapshots and then break the device your device is a care case14:23
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jaykiokay ;) tanks for your help :)14:24
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jaykii just donÄ't deltet the factory images but the others called "rec" and this worked for me :)14:24
jaykithank you :) <314:24
pawky|3Aard: a care case?14:24
Aardpawky|3: "ship device to us for reflashing. you pay for it, as you broke it yourself"14:25
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narchieso I'm deleting all traces of android from my jolla14:25
pawky|3Aard: how much will that cost?14:25
narchiefinally14:25
Aardnarchie: you mean the android runtime, or the hardware adaptation? :p14:25
sharpneli"all traces of android" :D14:25
sharpneliin b4 "This /system/lib is some android crap *DELETE*" :D14:26
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atlazrm -rf14:26
Aardpawky|3: I have no idea. feel free to break your device and contact care for a quote :)14:26
pawky|3atlaz: dd /dev/null /dev/sda ...14:26
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narchiethe runtime ;)14:26
javispedroi also use the jolla as main phone... since yesterday.14:27
pawky|3javispedro: That makes 5 of us then.. :-)14:27
* Aard stopped carrying his n9 around september14:28
narchieI also carry only my jolla14:28
pawky|3narchie: 6 then..14:28
narchieall my previous phones broke right before getting this14:28
narchieso I have no choice not that I'd even want to in this case :)14:28
Aardoh, I sometimes carry a pureview 808. I'd not count that as phone but as compact camera, though14:28
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javispedroby the way, any idea what might be generated the "rec-$timestamp" filesystems jayki was seeing?14:30
chem|stpawky|3: I add to the pool of one and only users... my N9 modem pissed me off that much so I swapped14:30
pawky|3chem|st: Ok, 7 it is then :-)14:31
sledgesjavispedro: wild guess: backup?14:31
atlazI gave my S2 to my wife and use Jolla as my only (private) phone atm14:31
atlazi've got a Lumia 520 as my work phone14:31
javispedrosledges: backup is supposed to be a .git repo on the-vault14:31
javispedrosledges: a btrfs snapshot would be too "coarse".14:31
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chem|stAard: will there be something for sdcard in the next update? just wondering if reformatting and getting btrfs to work is worth the hassle14:31
javispedronot allowing any granularity in which data you want to backup.14:31
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sledgesbrfs snapshots themselves?14:33
sledgesrollback points14:33
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Aardchem|st: define 'something'14:33
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atlazAre we still without a dropbox-client that would automatically upload photos after capturing them?14:34
pawky|3chem|st: in my opinion, btrfs is a hazzle no matter where you install it..14:34
pawky|3(use it) ^14:34
jaykithank you folks :) i'm off now ;) And you Aard, your the best, if i would met you, i just would buy you 100 beers :D14:34
ballocknarchie: my previous phone broke around the time I got my Jolla too14:35
jaykithanks :)14:35
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javispedrosledges: grepping btrfs source doesn't return any hits on "rec-" string14:35
Aardjayki: drop by in helsinki with 100 beers, and make the whole company happy? :p14:35
javispedrooh, maybe btrfs tools.14:35
pawky|3jayki: wow, thats like €700 of beer...14:35
jayki:p maybe, but thats worth it ;)14:35
jaykii like the support here :)14:35
jaykithank you :)14:36
ballock(I got the package and was mad on my e51 for loosing cellular range and hit it against the floor, even the metal case didn't help it)14:36
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atlazHow many beers for leaking info about the next update?14:36
atlazfor/to14:36
atlazAard: you can tell us. We all promise to /clear straight after and delete the logs.14:37
pawky|3atlaz: might be worth a few :-)14:37
atlazAbout the next update. Not the amount of beer14:37
atlazpawky|3: well i know the name of the next update, how many beers can i get for that?14:37
Aardatlaz: we don't do leaks here14:37
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pawky|3Aard: Is there a point keeping it secret on a beta phone?14:38
pawky|3Aard: I can hardly see that would stall any sales...14:39
atlazThe next update is gonna be called Naakelijärvi14:39
Nicd-nakkelijärvi14:39
Aardpawky|3: yes, if we hit an unexpected issue and have to revert one or more of the things we said we'll update there's unfortunately a very unpleasant crowd complaining about it14:39
atlazAnd Jolla would be the new HTC :)14:39
Aardso, we _are_ confirming/stating stuff that will be in updates in advance, but _only_ if we are 100% sure it'll be part of the update14:40
Aardatlaz: you think? :p14:40
chem|stAard: will it be usable without altering anything by hand14:40
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atlazWell that was/is HTC's downfall. Promising updates, then delaying them or skipping them :)14:40
TofeI've found out an HTC leather case was the perfect size for my Jolla. With a Jolla sticker on the "HTC" logo, it's just fine!14:41
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chem|stAard: I mean with btrfs on it14:41
Aardchem|st: for btrfs probably not. update3 will only contain minor changes to sd-card handling14:41
atlazLeak! LEAK!14:41
atlazEVERYONE /CLEAR14:41
pawky|3Aard: Well, it's not that people would sue you for reverting things...14:41
Nicd-atlaz: it's logged already!14:42
ballocksed the logs!14:42
pawky|3Aard: I believe such info will only make us buyers happy and hopefull :-)14:42
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chem|stAard: so no change in mounting scripts... is tracker under control in current nightlies?14:43
pawky|3"The logs, the logs, the logs are on fire... "14:43
chem|stAard: I will just reformat and do it by hand then...14:44
Aardthere are some changes in tracker14:44
chem|stAard: for some reason it did not loose any content the past 5 days...14:44
Aardand we're preparing other stuff which I hope can go in update4 (though absolutely no promises there)14:44
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Aardatlaz: another leak, the name of the update will _not_ be Naakelijärvi :p14:45
chem|stAard: I am not looking for promises, I am more looking what you are working atm so I can make up my mind on looking for a fix myself or just waiting for updates14:45
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atlazAard: Naakalampi then? I was going for the *järvi14:46
Nicd-Aard: since you're doing finnish names, why not Paska-Avenue for some update?14:46
Aardchem|st: https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/tracker/commits/master <- that's the tracker you'll find in update314:46
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chem|stAard: ah already commited :)14:47
AardNicd-: there is a naming scheme I follow. I just changed the rules for selecting a bit more complex to make the guessing game which name we'll use next more fun :p14:47
atlazAard: Evil.14:48
atlazI already got my "I UPDATED TO NAAKELIJÄRVI AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT"-t-shirts :(14:48
Aardit's like other companies do with drm. if you figure out the implementation we change it :p14:48
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atlazWell i guess my webshops next version is gonna be called naakelijärvi then - so i'll have some use for 100 t-shirts :(14:49
javispedroso, does the picture on top of the OS upgrade screen change depending on the version's codename?14:49
chem|stAard: any news on the longterm stuff? how is the cryptography department?14:49
fk_lxAard: my guess, the next release won't be a Finnish name, for a change it will be called Hardy Aardy :-P14:50
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atlazMy webshop version naming was once based on Arnold Schwarzenegger movie-titles14:51
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Aardchem|st: still in planning stage. we'll soonish enable ecryptfs in the kernel to enable experimenting, and slowly put more infrastructure pieces in place. no commitment to any date14:53
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javispedroby the way, I don't understand why Alien didn't use e.g. https://github.com/android/platform_system_core/blob/master/sdcard/sdcard.c to kill permissions on  /data/sdcard/14:56
* Aard grins14:56
javispedroif (strcasecmp(node->name, "DCIM") == 0) node->gid = AID_SDCARD_PICS;14:58
javispedromeh, Android is crazy14:58
Aardjavispedro: itbaron s one of the things we're working on, but it's not yet releasable14:59
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TofeHow risky is it to add repositories to our Jolla, for example for an update ?15:01
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TofeLet's say no Core and MW components are impacted, it's on top of it15:01
javispedrowas thinking about that15:02
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AardTofe: it depends on the software in the repos. there was something recently on one of the open repos which uninstalled core system components15:02
javispedrospecially the old maemo problem where if you install a package that depends on a strict version of a "system" package (ie on the maemo metapackage deps)15:02
javispedroand then a SSU comes which replaces/updates/conflicts with this "system" package15:03
w00tjavispedro: thankfully, we don't have such metapackages :p15:03
javispedrowell, no SSU for you.15:03
Aardif you have additional repos, ideally disable them before doing an update, and enable them again afterwards15:03
Tofew00t: nooo, uninstally Yandex doesn't have any consequence ;)15:03
Aardjavispedro: it was painful in some areas to get the same functionality with pattern, but I'm happy we did :p15:03
javispedrono idea about patterns, but a some point the updater has to decide between15:04
javispedroA) not upgrading B) removing the "offending" user-installed package C) leaving package dep tree broken15:04
javispedro(maemo would do A :) )15:04
javispedro(well, iirc)15:04
TofeAard: ok, well, so let's say it's risky, and each package has to be checked before installing it.15:04
AardTofe: yes. if you're worried, wait until around update4, we're putting some more safeguards in place. won'te be a guarantee, but at least should make it harder for 3rd party to nuke basic system packages unless you really want it tot15:07
TofeAard: ok, good. Anyway I know there will never an idiot-proof way of updating a modified package tree :)15:08
Tofe+be15:08
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javispedroTofe: technically you can always just keep removing packages iteratively until it everything works =)15:10
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Tofejavispedro: so, let's begin with systemd..... :p15:13
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javispedrowell, I was thinking of removing every package that is found to be "not compatible" with the core packages,15:15
Tofeah, yes, sure15:15
javispedrobut I am also a systemd hater too.15:15
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Pnuuskvark: you should add a second panel to your solar TOH design, should be "easy" by making it a cover/protector for the screen with hinges15:16
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atlazI miss the good old days of #jollamobile when all the conversation was "hurrdurr..delivery...hurr..christmas...durr...ooh wifi-hotspot". Now it's all unix this and package that and repositarys and commits15:23
atlazwhich i don't understand at all15:23
zuttogood time to learn how linux works15:24
javispedroatlaz: give it a few more days and you'll be talking about repositories and kernels15:24
zuttojoin the linux masterrace15:24
javispedro:)15:24
atlazim just a simple CEO. I have coders who should know these things15:24
atlazmaybe i'll get THEM to irc for me15:24
atlazand write short memos of whats going on on #jollamobile15:25
zuttoif you used linux daily, you'd be alot more effective in all your daily tasks15:25
atlazwhat, smoking cigars and hitting on secretaries?15:25
zuttoyes15:25
AL13N_worklol15:25
mornfall...15:25
zuttowhen they see you using dwm, they're confused and think you're genious15:25
zuttohappened with my russian co-worker15:25
zuttohe stared at me working for good 5 minutes15:26
AL13N_workatlaz: are you CEO of Riot Entertainment, by any chance?15:26
zuttoohh, riot-e15:26
ShadowJKare you the ceo of nokia, microsoft or ibm? Surely only historic companies have secretaries15:26
zuttothat was hilarious15:26
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atlazAL13N_work: nah, tiny small company of four persons15:26
AL13N_workatlaz: you've seen the movie "Riot-On!" right?15:26
atlazhell yeah. But im still waiting on investors....15:27
Tofeatlaz: you, the secretary, the IT guy, and the finance guy ?15:27
AL13N_workatlaz: it's a documentary of a finnish company that had 21million investment, but 1y later were bancrupt15:27
AL13N_worklol15:27
zuttothere was another similar company15:27
zuttocant remember the name, gotta google15:28
AL13N_workheh15:28
roboroprobably the ceo spent too much time on irc15:28
Tofesnapchat ?15:28
AL13N_workzutto: not _that_ similar15:28
AL13N_workzutto, i can't imagine any second company like that15:28
zuttoah, here we go15:28
zuttohttp://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitboys15:28
zuttoquite similar15:28
zutto:P15:28
zuttothey didnt party as much as the riot-e guys15:29
zuttobut they conned companies just as well as they did15:29
zuttoactually even better than riot-e guys did15:29
javispedroso I was on this conference, during the break, talking to a guy some anecdote about a dot com bubble "2013 edition" startup, massage chairs included, that went bankrupt in a year..15:29
atlazman, times were easier when the mobile phone games consisted of SMS'15:29
AL13N_work" the entire BitBoys Oy team was acquired by Qualcomm " <--- OMG15:29
zuttoAL13N_work: i know right15:30
zuttothey played their cards perfectly15:30
javispedro... this guy answering only with a nervous laughter...15:30
AL13N_workand we're using the qualcomm SoC15:30
javispedrowas told a few minutes afterwards that this guy was also starting a company and had a bought the massage chair already.15:30
zuttodont worry, that company has nothing to do with those things :D15:30
zuttothey probably had qualificactions to make such things, but they were lazy as phuck15:30
AL13N_workheh15:31
AL13N_workthis bitboys did hold out for 15y15:31
AL13N_workquite better than riot-e15:31
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AL13N_workbut riot-e is just more glamorous story15:31
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AL13N_work... and the strippers15:31
zuttoyep15:32
AL13N_work:-)15:32
zuttoi cant do anything but tip my virtual hat for those guys15:32
zuttothey were very succesful at what they did15:33
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javispedroI miss the good old days of #jollamobile when all the conversation was "hurrdurr..packages...hurr..commits...durr...ooh repositories". Now it's all CEO this and secretary that and finance and..15:34
zuttoyou're repeating yourself javispedro15:35
tbrjavispedro: you'll still find that, but on #sailfishos15:35
javispedrohey, it was irony, it's just been minutes since the last discussion about packages and commits15:36
javispedro(ended when someone complained about too many discussions re packages and commits)15:37
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ShadowJKI miss the good olf days of #jollamobile when all the conversation was "hurrdurr.. I miss the old days of...", now it's all repeating this, repeating that, irony this, irony that15:37
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javispedro:D15:39
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Siddejust got home from work and my wifi won't connect to my home network anymore15:42
Siddeanyone having problem reconnecting to a saved network?15:42
mornfallAnyone knows if the "number of apps submitted yesterday" in harbour is a real figure?15:42
YanielSidde: nope15:42
HarhaanJohtajathis company wasnt great succes either: http://www.arcticstartup.com/2012/04/16/fruugo-financials-bankruptcy15:43
tbrSidde: only heard about that in the context when someone tried to connect to an EAP network before that and it failed15:44
Siddetbr: just been at work, not open settings meny at all all day15:44
SiddeI works now, switched over to flight mode15:44
Yanielstill waiting for wpa network support though :/15:45
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SiddeYaniel: what kind of wpa support?15:46
Siddei'm using wpa2, it works15:46
javispedrowpa-psk works ;P15:46
Yanielsorry, I meant EAP15:46
Yaniel(essentially for connecting to eduroam)15:46
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mornfallYaniel: there's a known workaround for EAP (just dump a conffile to connman's state dir)15:47
mornfallit's on together IIRC15:47
mornfall(the config file)15:47
YanielI tried that once but it didn't work15:47
YanielI need to try again later when I have time and am in range again15:48
mornfallwell, I can check tomorrow, I'll be in eduroam range15:48
Yanielso will I, the question is if I have time15:48
Yanieland where would you copy the ca certificate?15:49
PnuuYaniel: https://together.jolla.com/question/2949/where-can-i-add-a-system-ca-certificate/15:50
Yanielah, nice15:51
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mornfallYaniel: eduroam certs should be verifiable from ca-certs, actually15:51
mornfallat least that's the case on my laptop15:52
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Jaredoes jolla scan for available wifi networks at all in standby?16:40
Jareit seems that it only connects to a known wifi network, when i first wake it up from standby16:40
tbrJare: that might be a notification that it did that $time ago16:41
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Jareimo connman automatically connects to a service, if a service with auto-connect switched on is in wifi range. So i suspect the scanning part16:47
tbryes16:48
tbrand the notification is probably just delayed until the display is switched on16:48
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Jarehm, i'll have to try ping/ssh the phone next time then16:49
skvarkPnuu: that's cool idea16:53
Pnuuskvark: :-)16:56
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Pnuuand make it so, that when opened there's a separate thin cloth that can be left against the display and the phone placed display-side down and both panels pointing at the sun16:57
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Nicd-oh yeah, webcat in store17:24
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Yanielyup17:28
Yanielseems like a nice upgrade from the stock browser17:28
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roboroyes... good work... I like the default bookmarks :)17:32
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deusswow17:42
deussall nicks registered17:42
Nicd-welcome to freenode17:42
deusswhat a lovely network yeah17:43
attahi got mine like just a few years ago.. still amazed that it was free, even then17:43
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Siddewhy in "hell" is the android environment hardcoded to googles dns servers?17:46
Siddesponsorship from google?17:46
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Yanielbecause, you know, google practically owns android17:47
SiddeYaniel: but it's not hardcoded in android os ;)17:47
Yanielhah17:47
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Siddei can't resolv internal systems because it asks google instead of my local dns servers...17:48
roboroseriously Sidde... can you not set DNS using DHCP on android?17:51
Stskeepsisn't there already a workaround on together.* ?17:51
EztranProbably https://together.jolla.com/question/2780/sailfish-and-android-apps-using-different-dns/17:52
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SiddeStskeeps: not very nice on. Drop all packages to 8.8.8.8 and use some secondary dns17:52
Sidderoboro: the android env. does not use your local dns settings17:52
Stskeepshmm.17:52
roboroI just saw the link... :(17:53
SiddeStskeeps: that is something you do when hacking devices otherwise locked.17:53
roboroyou could do an awful hack on your own network and use iptables to reroute DNS queries to somewhere else17:55
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Sidderoboro: :D17:55
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EztranThere are... other problems with that :)17:56
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roborohey... it was the best solution I could come up with ;)17:56
SiddeI think i need to do some network analysing. I can't really trust this device anymore17:56
roboromaybe less the device and just the android implementation?17:57
Siddemaybe. hard to know without looking17:57
EztranDalvik's the only bit which won't use your DNS, if that's what you mean.17:58
roborotrue true... would always be good to see the results of such analysis17:58
Siddeyes, but what else is being sent about my local network to external parties?17:58
roboroI believe there was some comment about using GPS and it phoning home with info17:58
Siddeyes, i think that was about the maps application17:59
roborobut I think that's releated to an app or something... its in the T&C for maps17:59
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roboroif you do any analysis... would be good to see your results posted somewhere... always useful to know what's going on in the background18:00
Pnuuthere's connections to jolla.com for testing network availability, iirc18:00
roboroyes to ipv4.jolla.com18:00
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Stskeepsipv4.jolla.com and it's so you can get a popup when you have a captive portal instead of getting flooded with "cannot connect to IM accounts"18:00
Stskeepsor the likes18:00
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Stskeepscode is in the open if you'd like to peek18:01
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roboroindeed... this is the thing... if you do network analysis... you may as well do code analysis as well :)18:01
Siddethat is the logical next step when finding something yes18:02
roboroyou could sit for a whole month watching network traffic... but miss the annual 'post-passwords-to-jolla' function :D:D:D:D18:02
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Stskeepsam i the only one having 8.8.8.8 because frankly speaking, my ISP's DNS sucks? and so does my wifi DNS18:03
sledgesread between letters: DNSA18:04
sledges:)18:04
Stskeeps3,5-Dinitrosalicyclic acid?18:04
SiddeStskeeps: no internal machines to access? or do you share hosts-files like in the 70s18:05
attahFudge! Now I too have random reboots :(18:05
StskeepsSidde: i work from home18:05
Stskeepsattah: shutdowns or reboots18:05
attahOr rather shutdowns, yes18:05
Nicd-I just use IPs for internal hosts18:05
Stskeepsattah: ugh. take out your battery for 10 minutes, put it back in and let it charger over night18:05
Stskeepsthen if that doesn't work, proceed straight to the goat sacrifice.18:06
Stskeeps:P18:06
attahStskeeps :)18:06
Siddelooks like tcpdump exists as a package on build.merproject.org18:06
Quuattah: glhf.18:06
attahThis was the first time I tried going several days between charges (well, I did 2 before), but this is my third since a charge. And I was at 38%.18:08
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* roboro puts daily reminder in phone: charge me or expect random reboots18:08
Pnuuroboro: just re-enable tohd, no extra reminders needed :-P18:09
attahStskeeps: have you been spying on me? i use this for lync where I work: http://makemelaugh.com/pics/Whatever-Floats-Your-Goat.jpg18:10
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Stskeepshehe18:13
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anonfriesehumm, my jolla makes about 4-5 days with tohd disabled, no reboots so far...18:36
sledgessame here18:41
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Quuwould be same without all the random shutdowns18:45
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ortylpno wonder it gets half a week on battery... it just does not connect to any GSM/UMTS Data nor WiFi.  It checks email once in three days at the moment i force it to connect to WiFi and do check the email.  So... 3 days in these conditions i would get with N9 too.  I expect, that if i say, "check email every 30min" then the E-Mail will be checked every 30 minutes, not every 3 days... ech... I am waiting for next up18:46
stephgunicorn?18:47
anonfriesemine does connect to 2g/wifi, though 3g seems to only activate on screen on (im fine with that). push-mail works most of the times, sometimes it needs a manual restart to get working again (had that with my n9 too)18:47
ortylppush-email does not exist on Jolla mail AFAIK18:48
anonfriesemine works :) maybe cause its activesync...18:48
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narchiewas there an update just now?18:53
attah1.0.2.5 playing tricks again?18:54
stephgprobably, nothing new here18:55
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attahIs there any word on when a new release might be coming out?19:05
Stskeepswhen it's ready19:05
Stskeeps:P19:05
Quuattah: valve-tomorrow19:06
Stskeepsin practice we've been shipping what, monthly, so far??19:06
Stskeeps:P19:06
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Pnuufor some, it seems to be too slow..19:08
attahYeah.. I'm impressed! But still want more.. right now especially QDocumentGalleryModel that's good enough to allow in store.. also working artists on album lists would be neat.19:08
Stskeepstbh i'd be happy with monthly and then having that solid, then seeing if every 14 days is possible to get solid..19:09
stephgright now I'm just happy :)19:09
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YanielStskeeps: can you tell if 'developer updates' could be something, say archlinux-like rolling-release if/when it eventually works?19:10
Stskeepsthat's something you should rather pester Aard about19:10
YanielAard: ^19:11
attahvark?19:11
Quulets all hilight Aard, just for the fun of it ;)19:11
Yaniel^19:12
ortylpon Sunday there was a glitch with 1.0.2.5 wanting to update itself to 1.0.2.5...19:12
Yanieler ^^19:12
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Yanielortylp: has happened before19:12
AardYaniel: you already have rolling release, at least once every monh :p19:12
attahRather: it happens alot, randomly19:12
ortylpYaniel: first time for me19:12
Yanielwell, sort of19:12
Yanielbut it is heavily batched :P19:13
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AardYaniel: 'developer updates' will mean access to upcoming updates while they are still in qa-phase for registered users19:13
YanielI guess that would be what I mean then19:14
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Yanieldoes that apply to harbour qa as well or just jolla qa?19:14
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Aardwe're still working on the details, both technically and how to qualify for it (as the stuff is only partially qa'd there's a higher risk to break your device we might need to be a bit carful about granting access)19:16
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Morpog_MobileDoes lurking in here qualify for it? :D19:32
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stephg^ good question ;)19:33
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slateI bet the best way to have a chanche to get developer updates is to develop something..20:04
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claucount me in for devel updates. I'm looking forward to find out more about the conditions.20:11
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cvpahoi20:12
slateoi20:13
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Pnuu20:13
clau:D20:14
ortylpAard: what is the coarse estimation for delivery time / priorities of device/$HOME encryption at the moment? how can we help?20:14
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ortylpAard: I would bet for "low priority", ETA unknown, but maybe you have more detailed info :)20:15
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specialortylp: out of curiosity, what would you want to see used for encryption keying?20:16
Pnuurot13 \o/20:17
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ortylpspecial: password on the lock screen20:17
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specialfor $HOME, I assume20:17
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speciala password for device encryption would be very difficult; there's a huge list of things necessary to get booted far enough to display something on screen and present a keyboard of some kind20:18
ortylpspecial: I would prefer full-disc-encryption, but $HOME is the next best thing and doable20:18
clauusually the password is used just to protect the key used for encryption20:18
ortylpclau: that is right20:19
specialit's not like desktops, where a fairly simple bootloader can display a prompt and accept input..20:19
clauspecial, I assume you can boot far enough without home, right?20:20
specialprobably20:20
clauthat would make the home dir encryption scenario doable20:20
specialright.20:20
clauwhich is probably enough for most users anyway20:20
clauit's mostly protection against losing data if the phone is stolen or lost20:20
ortylpclau: you do not need home for anything at boot time, it may even not exist at all20:21
clautypically yes, but I do not know what magics happen in Sailfish :)20:21
ortylpclau: this is exactly the use case for me20:21
specialwell, it's not *quite* that simple20:21
claumaybe there are services which would really like access to home dir, for indexing and whatever20:22
specialfor example, if you're displaying a keyboard for password input, you need at least the configured keyboard locale20:22
specialso that can't be stored under $HOME20:22
specialbut it's a managable solution, definitely20:22
claufull disk enc would be very difficult, and still unsafe without some hardware support I suppose20:22
clauI mean, not safer than just home dir enc20:23
specialyes. The same is true of encryption with something less than a full text password.20:23
ortylpspecial: I use full device encryption on android, at boot you get your default keyboard20:23
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specialI don't know much about android's implementation. On iOS, there's a chip for key storage20:24
ortylpspecial: once device booted into lock screen I can get my custom keyboard20:24
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clauTBH, I would rather see better security for apps first.20:25
ortylp$HOME encryption is a standard feature on many Linux distros, so the technology is already pretty well worked out20:25
clauit really bugs me that currently any app can just play with pkcon and at the least remove important packages.20:25
clauor worse, install stuff without my knowledge.20:26
ortylpclau: on Jolla you have absolutely NO security at all, it is even worse than on the desktop20:27
clauyep :(20:27
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specialyes, that area needs improvement.20:28
clauthis probably happened because the main focus was on getting the UI up and running, to have something to show.20:28
ortylpclau: $HOME encryption is only for the purpose of loosing personal data by physical theft, otherwise if you are not careful enough and install a rogue app, the data gets lost anyway20:29
clauyep20:29
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special(but physical theft is an important case, as anyone who has crossed the US border should be aware)20:29
clauand currently it's quite safe, considering apps are coming from the community20:29
ortylpspecial: I am not willing to cross that border anyway20:30
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clauspecial, any chance we will see someday (soon) a roadmap regarding the security?20:32
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clauI think it would make lots of people feel better about it. Many of the owners are geeks, and usually geeks care about security and privacy.20:33
specialclau: best advice I can offer is to post on together (or vote and comment on existing posts) and keep discussion going20:34
clauroger that20:34
specialit is important. so are a *lot* of things, and we are still not very many people, so20:35
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clauno worries, I'm sure everyone understands the situation.20:38
QuuNO WE DONT!!11oneone20:38
Stskeepsnone of us likes loosing our devices in a bar and next day all the photos from the jolla sauna are public..20:38
Quucode faster monkeys20:38
Stskeeps:P20:38
slateis that what there happens20:39
slateaww, sweet20:39
clau:D20:39
QuuStskeeps: so thats what the "business trip" was..20:40
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StskeepsQuu: i'm still in finland20:41
Stskeeps:P20:41
Quutoo bad it didnt get colder than this20:42
ortylpthe "encryption" question is at https://together.jolla.com/question/2158/optional-encryption-of-the-device/20:42
clauStskeeps, keep on saying words like bar, drinks, sauna... and the number of CV's you receive there will increase fast :P20:42
Quui mean, -15c is t-shirt weather.20:42
Stskeepsclau: i'm sure people would like to apply at riot devices, er, i mean jolla20:42
Stskeeps:P20:42
clau:D20:42
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slateriot mobile entertainment?20:43
* special is craving the office indian food again20:43
AL13Nhmm, the connman config is not quite like http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/connman/connman.git/tree/doc/config-format.txt20:44
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AL13Nslate: :-)20:45
slateanyone tried modding the build.prop file on dalvik-side?20:45
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Stskeepsin practice we're boring :P20:45
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slatesoon Stskeeps will say my device will die.20:45
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slateStskeeps: the one of you I know alwasys has some interesting stuff to discuss.20:46
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slate:P20:46
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slatedamn I typo alot. Better stop writing.20:47
Quuim seriously running out of whiskey :(20:47
leiniri like this alot a lot20:48
leinirhttp://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html20:49
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clauyeah, languages never change. people used the same english we know one thousand years ago too. :)20:51
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leinirwhat? i just really like that alot, it's adorable ;)20:52
clau:D20:52
clauthough, I must confess I get annoyed about "u", "cuz" and others myself20:53
Pnuumeh20:53
Waiteesoz for typin lyk tis20:54
Eztran'u' isn't so bad, really... it at least actually shortens the word, understandable if you don't type too quickly. The ones which aren't even any shorter or easier to type, though... those annoy me.20:54
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clau:)20:54
Quupls clau y u so mad bro20:55
claubtw... here's a nice documentary series about language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry%27s_Planet_Word20:55
pahartikclau: Usually I try to actively ignore messages or articles from author when seeing that20:55
clauyeah, the context is important too20:55
EztranPresented by Stephen Fry, because, who else?20:55
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clauit's one thing to see it in a context where people want/need to write faster20:55
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clauand another to see it in an article, where the author presumably had some time to write, read, correct and so on20:56
clauEztran, I take it you don't like the guy? :)20:56
EztranThose are common contexts these days. Certainly, though, in an article it's pretty painful to see.20:56
leinirhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_x5cfdwP98 <-- also a comment on a modern bit of language, brilliantly made :)20:57
Eztranclau: nah, it's just that there aren't many people more appropriate to be presenting a documentary on language.20:57
clauyou should see it before making an opinion20:58
EztranI'm saying it is appropriate, not that it isn't. Apparently my language isn't all that great, for all my complaining :)20:59
clau:D21:00
cvpis some one working on a own cloud client ?21:02
Stskeepsowncloud.. wasn't there one already?21:03
cvpi see only own notes21:03
Pnuuhttps://together.jolla.com/question/880/owncloud-integration/?answer=885#post-id-88521:05
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cvphmm ... no answer21:07
Pnuuthat's the closest I've seen21:08
clauhttps://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20130205.txt21:10
clauJolla has openssl 1.0.1c, which is listed as vulnerable21:10
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clauhopefully one of the next updates will include a newer version of openssl ;)21:13
Stskeepsi can show you where to contribute :P21:13
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clauhit me :D21:16
Stskeepsopenssl: http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-core/openssl.git;a=tree , https://review.merproject.org21:17
clauthanks21:17
AL13Nabout owncloud: http://elinux.org/Jolla#Interesting_native_apps_possibly_in_the_works21:18
AL13NownNotes at the very least21:18
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AL13NPnuu: Stskeeps: cvp: ^^21:18
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cvpAL13N ? :D21:36
cvphave some one time to make me a website ? :D21:38
Azogi am eagerly waiting for gpodder for sailfish21:39
AL13N?21:42
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cvp??21:44
Stskeeps?@!$@$@21:45
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AL13Ncvp: i don't understand what you are saying... what is this about a website?21:46
ln-when will there be a native angry birds? (not that i care about it so much, but a lot of people could.)21:46
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cvpneed some one what can help me to tune my website :D21:46
AL13Nln-: i'd think you'd need to contact Rovio for that :-)21:46
TSCHAKMacJust got my Jolla phone here in the US. Store app will not launch, so system update can't happen21:46
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TSCHAKMac:(21:46
AL13Ncvp: ok, so why are you asking me, and even in this channel?21:47
cvpi dont ask you,i ask some one here :D21:47
AL13Nok, both were unrelated21:47
cvp:(21:47
AL13Nthough still, this isn't the place for such questions, imho21:47
YanielTSCHAKMac: hmm?21:48
AL13Ncvp: i was just reacting to your owncloud question21:48
TSCHAKMacClick on Jolla store. Jolla store then shows it's loading in the apps view, then the app tile disappears21:48
StskeepsTSCHAKMac: factory reset, don't install any apps, and make sure you have a jolla account, go to settings -> about product, check for updates, it'll notify of an update available, receive it21:48
TSCHAKMacStskeeps: ok21:48
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cvpgood night@all22:32
stephgniight22:32
* stephg is thrilled that xpra is finally usable22:32
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phlixigood evening22:39
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phlixiI have a 64gb micro sdxc card (and a jolla phone^^). I do not plan to remove the card from the phone. I want to save files larger than 4gb on that card. which file system should i use on that card?22:41
Yanielbtrfs22:42
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phlixifine22:42
phlixi& thanks ;)22:42
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phlixihow do i get the card btrfs formatted?22:43
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stephgyou've enabled developer mode?22:47
phlixiyes, and i have a ssh session open, ready to brick the device ;-)22:47
stephgwell mkfs.btrfs /dev/mmcblk1p1 will probably do it22:48
stephgdunno what options you;d want tho22:48
phlixibrowsing the filesystem i can see there is /data/sdcard but i guess thats just a folder named that way for alien dalvik22:48
stephgand the automounter currently won't see it22:48
phlixiare there any interesting options?22:49
stephgif it's formatted exFAT then it won't be mounted22:49
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stephgif it's fat32 it'll be automounted at /run/user/100000/media/sdcard22:49
phlixiyes, but fat32 does not support large files22:49
stephgif you format it ext4 or btrfs the automount won't see it (hopefully a fix for the former, if not both, will be in the next update)22:49
phlixiand is it possible to have it automatically mounted after reboot if its not (ex/v)fat(32)?22:50
stephgout of the box, currently no, but there is a fixed script kicking around that patches that22:51
phlixiis this the right spot? https://together.jolla.com/answers/3188/revisions/22:52
stephgyeah that looks about right22:53
stephgright, bed time22:54
stephggood luck phlixi22:54
phlixithank!22:54
phlixithanks stephg! and gn8^^22:54
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Turskiwould be nice to have f2fs support on jolla23:03
Jonniphlixi: I'm using exfat on my 64GB card, that way I can take it out even on windows machine.23:04
Turskibut the kernel is just too old23:04
TurskiJonni: umm, you got it somehow working on jolla?23:04
phlixiJonni: does it support files larger than 4gb?23:04
Turskiyes it does23:05
JonniTurski: well its as simple as compiling fuse exfat modules, and then calling mount on commandline, and yes supports >4gb files.23:05
phlixiJonni: what do i have to do in order to have the card mounted after reboot of the jolla phone?23:05
TurskiJonni: that's just ugly :(23:05
Turski(to have to use microsoft's propietary filesystems on linux system)23:06
Jonniwell for automount, you either wait for update to arrive, or hack the mounting script manually yourself. I suggest waiting for update23:06
phlixiwell, i guess compiling fuse is not simple (for me)^^23:06
Jonniwell yes if compiling is not your cup of tea, then ext4 or btrfs23:06
phlixi(and i do not plan to remove the card from the phone at all once in use, so no need for windows support)23:06
Jonni(I would suggest ext4)23:06
Turskibtrfs probably performs better on sd23:07
phlixiwhy do you suggest ext4?23:07
Jonnibecause btrfs can sometimes have problems, ext4 is more mature.23:07
ln-does harbour have some kind of moral guidelines/restrictions for content?23:08
phliximaturity is a good point, i do not need speed (will store mostly flacs there)23:08
Jonniln-: well adulpt content has a flag, and ofcourse you cannot break laws.23:09
Turskiwell, root filesystem is btrfs anyway...23:09
Jonniadult even.23:09
Turskii would think jolla think it's stable enough23:09
Stskeeps.. do we actually have any adult content in jolla store?23:09
ln-Jonni: that question arised in my mind after reading: http://www.hs.fi/talous/Apple+ja+Google+vetiv%C3%A4t+lapsille+suunnatun+plastiikkakirurgiapelin+kaupoistaan/a138978226781523:10
* Yaniel hasn't seen any23:10
* Jonni goes and codes a p0rn application....23:10
phlixiadult content would be a good selling point compared to the majors^^ (..the internet is for pr0n^^)23:10
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