#jollamobile log for Monday, 2014-01-27

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dunphttp://ask.slashdot.org/story/14/01/26/1950237/ask-slashdot-life-after-n90001:07
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* SpeedEvil moderated quite a few times in that discussion.01:49
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tango_does jolla support WPA-EAP on wireless? it doesn't want to connect to my dept wifi07:01
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pawky|3I believe it does, at least for me :-)07:03
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pawky|3tango_: at least standard WPA works..07:05
tango_pawky|3: standard wpa works for me too07:05
tango_ah https://together.jolla.com/question/3775/wpa-enterprise-eg-eduroam-support/07:06
pawky|3tango_: yeah, i realized you meant the enterprise part...07:06
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tango_apparently there's a workaround07:07
AL13Nyou can set the connman profile, so that it connect automatically07:09
tango_AL13N: that's what the workaround suggests07:09
AL13Nyes07:10
tango_I don't mind doing it, but it surely isn't user-friendly 8-)07:10
AL13Nthat's one of the things that'll be fixed in the future, i guess07:10
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tango_otoh I get to learn about the connman configuration, which is good07:10
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tango_cool, it works07:16
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AL13Ntango_: can you document the exact configuration?07:22
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Quuit takes two to tango_07:34
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AL13N:)08:01
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pawky|3will one ever be able to acutally put sailfish on the N9?10:23
Pnuuisn't it already10:23
pawky|3Pnuu: Not that I know of... firmware download URL?10:24
AL13Nno idea, though i've heard that some people did something like this10:25
Pnuuatleast there's several youtube videos, and people here mentioning that they're running sailfishos on their N910:25
pawky|3AL13N: I have heard they've done it on the N950... but not the N910:25
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ballockisn't n950 like n9 but with hw keyboard?10:26
Pnuuhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ii7k-OYM810:26
pawky|3ballock: yes, kind of :-)10:26
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ballockso you mean kind of it isn't?10:26
pawky|3ballock: I am no expert, but it does differ a bit, I believe not everything was implemented in the N950 that exists in the N9...10:27
stephg_they differed slightly10:28
pawky|3Pnuu: Ok, that video looks promising, now all I need is the firmware...10:28
pawky|3I wonder if this means, you could actually put the N9 meego firmware on the Jolla?10:28
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pawky|3Or... maybe not the firmware... but some version of Meego :-)10:29
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ballockI'm not sure I would be interested in installing Debian Potato anymore.10:31
pawky|3ballock: because?10:32
ballockIt's ancient.10:32
ballockOk, you could say 'vintage'10:32
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Yaniel'retro'10:32
pawky|3ballock: cannot really say you will have more fancy options in any modern version of phone OS'es...10:33
ballockbut I don't think it's that easy, there was no android hw compatibility layer in N910:33
pawky|3ballock: you can call, surf, MMS bluetooth, NFC with it..10:33
ballockthey had total control over the hardware10:33
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ballockbtw, can I use NFC as Visa Paypass thing?10:35
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ballockI mean, rip off stuff of the actual card, and use a piece of software to make phone-Visa?10:35
ballockI believe I saw that as a service from some local ISP10:36
pawky|3ballock: I believe that would be quite hard to accomplish..10:36
ballockSo it's not just 'give me the card number' query?10:36
pawky|3ballock: I believe you will need the computation logic behind it all a well..10:37
ballockI saw some youtube videos as guys equipped with card readers were ripping the card numbers with it10:37
ballockby just 'passing by' ordinary people10:38
pawky|3ballock: well, this you could probably do, yes..10:38
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ballockaand, I don't believe visa paypass to be any real security or whatsoever10:38
ballockrip it off, run an app 'provide visa' and hand it over10:39
pawky|3ballock: I will assume, there will be some kind of communication going on between the units to verify things. but just getting the card number might be doable10:40
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artemmaQuickLauncher update is in harbour QA for four days by now, sigh11:25
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artemmaApparently I am always on the late extreme of the "estimated hours for approval: 48" interval the harbour dashboard tells about11:26
ballockreally? I thought I saw it in Jolla storre already11:26
stephg_^that11:26
artemmaballock: I am talking about the update11:26
stephg_ah11:26
artemmait's a pity as my time for jolla dev usually comes at bursts (not a dayjob), so it helps me a lot if reboew time was actually predictable11:27
artemmathough.. it is actually quite predictable at something like 3.5-4.5 days on average, I just need to stop expecting that Harbour's "estimated hours for approval" somehow reflect reality11:27
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AL13Nartemma: perhaps if you get things right from the first time, it is like reality? :-)12:00
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minimecHi I have problems connecting my jolla phone to a WPA Personal(WPA) network. Encryption is set to TKIP/AES (auto). Could you give me a hint?12:14
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minimec(WPA2)...12:14
tachikomai think the state was: not working in the UI. But working in principle with command line comands12:14
Yanielwhat sort of problems?12:15
Yanielno personal wpa2 works12:15
Yanieleap does not12:15
tachikomaoh, i misread, sorry12:15
Yanielminimec: did you typo your password?12:15
minimecYaniel: Hi. Well. It finds the network, but after choosing it, it would not give me the possibility to enter the password. Just 'Connection failed'...12:15
YanielI had to reboot after typoing my wlan password12:16
Yanielelse it would not ask for a password again12:16
tango_AL13N: I did exactly what the suggested workaround said12:16
minimecYaniel: Well I can't enter the password... That is my problem.12:16
Yanieltry rebooting the device12:18
minimecYaniel: Ok. Doing that now...12:18
ballockminimec: what's the name of your network? isnt't it something standard like 'dlink' or 'linksys'12:18
Yanieland next question is: what os version?12:18
ballockJolla might have remembered this network as an open access around on the street12:18
minimecballock: something like abc-123412:18
ballockok, not default12:19
tango_minimec: I just had the thing. you can set up the connection manually in developer mode12:20
minimecYaniel: THX. Had to reboot to get the possibility to enter the password. I am connected now.12:21
tango_minimec: I'll give you the link I followed12:21
tango_wut12:21
tango_oh12:21
tango_sorry12:21
tango_I thought you ha eap12:21
minimecballock: It's ok now. A simple reboot did it. Thx anyways12:21
minimectango_: I will check that possibility, even though it's working now. Thx.12:22
minimecThat's the power of the chat community. Problem solved in 2 minutes. GREAT!12:23
tango_minimec: https://together.jolla.com/question/315/wpa2-pskaesothers-wifi-support-needed-workaround/12:24
Yanielminimec: the problem there is that if you are unlucky it might take as well 2 weeks12:25
Yanielbut with good timing and a bit of luck.. ^^12:25
minimectango_: That might be useful, for the 'alternate' eduroam network @my university. THX.12:26
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dTAhm oh, the qwertyoh dev doesn't have software side sorted yet. anyone know of a known implementation for the i2c communication in the first place? haven't seen official documentation either12:27
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tachikomayess :)12:29
tachikomajust connected to the WPA enterprise network here :)12:29
dunpdTA, how about kernel http://lwn.net/Articles/353023/12:29
tango_minimec: yep, seems to be necessary for eduroam and any EAP network12:30
tango_(I needed it for my department too)12:30
dunphttp://wiki.analog.com/resources/tools-software/linux-drivers/input-keyboard/adp558812:30
dTAhm, might be very usable indeed12:31
Nicd-hey, anyone noticed one of their apps having a different colored name label in the app grid?12:32
Nicd-all my app names are white except for one android app which has a blue name12:32
StskeepsNicd-: screenshot?12:33
Nicd-will do12:33
Nicd-hmm12:34
Nicd-I clicked it and it didn't open but the text became white12:34
Nicd-so maybe it was left in a pressed state12:34
artemmaAL13N: I have 4 apps in the jolla app store and something like 7-10 submissions including upgrade. I believe my data has a bit of relevancy and I learn a little about the submission process over time ;)12:50
artemmaStill want it faster and more predictable certainly :)12:50
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sejogot the jolla!13:07
Nicd-happy sailing!13:07
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sejothanks, I'll first need to see if I can get everything working the way I want it, then I'll switch sim :P13:08
sejodoing the system upgrade now13:09
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sejonow to get android store onto it :p13:31
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joonahoisejo: i've migrated off the android apps already completely, start by checking out what you can get as native software13:50
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mtdis there a daemon one can kill or dbus command one can issue to reset/restart (sorry, wolly term) the baseband networking?  My jolla won't see any networks, yet I'm sure it should...13:50
mtd(and as a learning exercise I'm trying to avoid rebooting)13:50
Nicd-mtd: does going to airplane mode and back help?13:51
ballockmtd: had the same issue13:51
mtdNicd-: no, tried that :(13:51
mornfallSo are we going to see a Sailfish tablet? :) I'd probably buy one, considering how I could stop abusing my laptop with a graphical web browser. ;-)13:51
ballockairplane didn't work too13:51
mtdballock: sounds like the same symptoms, yeah13:51
ballockhad to reboot, but would be glad to hear some outcome13:52
ballockmight be blob-related13:52
sejojoonahoi: well I'm looking in the jolla store for following ones: twitter, spotify (offline use) xbmc, remote, task (with exchange sync using zimbra)13:52
mornfallsounds like airplane is not airplane enough13:52
mtdballock: blob?13:52
sejoin the store there isn't that much yet13:52
joonahoiyeah13:53
mtdmornfall: heh13:53
mornfallmtd: baseband firmware13:53
joonahoibut you can get the rest from openrepos13:53
* mtd notes that lipstick is not happy with the radio: lipstick[988]: Radio set to unsupported mode13:53
joonahoifor ex: twitter, spotify13:53
mtdmornfall: ah, thx13:53
sejoopenrepos?13:53
* sejo googles13:53
joonahoiwhat do you mean by remote?13:53
joonahoisejo: http://www.jollatides.com/2014/01/08/tutorial-how-to-download-beta-apps-from-openrepos/13:53
rcghi13:53
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rcgmy jolla seems to turn it self off13:54
mornfallmtd: also called a blob because that's what you get from the HW vendor :-)13:54
rcgis that a know issue?13:54
Nicd-rcg: sudden shutdown? were you using it at the time?13:54
joonahoircg: yes. there's a lot of speculation around it13:54
mornfallnot unlike wifi baseband chips in laptops13:54
joonahoibut seems like it's got something to do with the mobile data and the link tower in use13:54
mtdmornfall: yup13:54
rcgNicd-, one time i was listening music13:54
joonahoircg: it's a bug allright, https://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shuts-down/13:55
rcgthe other times i was doing nothing13:55
Nicd-I have the random shutdown bug too13:55
Nicd-hasn't happened for a few days now though13:55
rcgjoonahoi, thanks for the link13:55
rcgNicd-, it suddenly started today13:55
ballockphew, hopefully I never got random shutdowns13:55
ballockseems the blob is pretty darned13:55
rcgi am using the jolla since december and never had that issue13:55
joonahoii have had a few, but only while travelling through one location13:55
joonahoiand it was related to mobile data13:55
rcgstarted today out of the blue13:56
rcgjoonahoi, hmm ic13:56
rcgi might check that13:56
joonahoii was listening to music from spotify13:56
rcg*err will :)13:56
joonahoihad three shutdowns13:56
mornfalljoonahoi: must be a bug in baseband's embedded spyware13:56
sejoooo thanks joonahoi13:56
rcgi also didn't do any update nor tinkering lately13:57
ballockregarding the baseband, I often got missed calls and no outbound calling functionality (lost range), while the screen happily reported half range on 2G or even 3G13:57
rcgjust out of nowhere this issue popped up13:57
joonahoisejo: np, just remember that there's no QA on the software on openrepos13:57
mornfallbtw., is there a software switch that can cut off power to the GSM module?13:57
joonahoiso someone might upload something potentially harmful there13:57
mornfallthat'd be really helpful13:57
joonahoiit's compareable to downloading software from the wild wild internet13:57
sejojoonahoi: ok thanks for the heads up13:57
mornfalljoonahoi: millions of people do that every day, What Could POSSIBLY Go Wrong?13:58
sejoas soon as I have the basic apps I'll be switching ;P13:58
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joonahoithere hasn't been any issues on any of the packages on openrepo13:58
ballockjoonahoi: I dont' think that's comparable. You'd need to be able to write some Linux stuff in the first place.13:58
mornfallnot that we know of, no *wink*13:58
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joonahoimornfall: well, basically anyone could upload a rpm which had rm -rf / in the pre install script13:58
mornfall(a little paranoia is good for your health)13:58
joonahoiname it something shiny13:59
joonahoiand sit back, have a beer and watch the havoc13:59
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Stskeepsjoonahoi: recently people had problems with bluez package in openrepos..13:59
Stskeepsblew up their bluetooth naturally13:59
joonahoiok, i missed that13:59
joonahoiyeah13:59
mornfallIsn't there a bluez stack on the phone already?14:00
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Stskeepsyes, but if you add non-QA'ed repos, you get their updates too14:00
mtdballock: are your missed called reported as such in th eUI, or do you just get voicemail /or people telling you they called?14:00
ballockthe latter14:01
sejoStskeeps: btw I've appreciated your works since my n90014:01
sejoStskeeps: thx!14:01
mornfallmtd: I don't think I have voicemail set up and nobody calls me anyway. ;-)14:01
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ballockIt must have been bad enough that my carrier resigned from trying to deliver me a couple of SMS messages14:02
mtdmornfall: heh -- I'm in a similar situation :)14:02
mornfallmtd: I have a new SIM with a new number, and the old one is in an ancient nokia featurephone which is turned off.14:02
mtdballock: ah14:02
Nicd-joonahoi: it can happen by accident too :) https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee-Old-and-abbandoned/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6f1dafc8beb84f2ac14:02
mornfallballock: that usually takes a week of trying...14:02
ballockI was also puzzled.14:03
mornfallNicd-: that's a pretty cool typo14:03
joonahoiNicd-: yeah, that was hilarious14:03
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ballockIt worked much better on Nokia phones14:03
mornfallNicd-: someone made the same mistake yesterday in #haskell (not in a terminal, luckily for them :)14:04
ballockI wouldn't mind swapping the baseband chip in this for something more Nokish14:04
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mornfallballock: might not be a baseband problem, the main chip needs to cooperate quite closely14:04
mornfallballock: i.e. the drivers in the main kernel are probably not up to speed yet, happens with every new radio thing out there14:05
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mornfallwlan.ko: author:         Qualcomm Atheros, Inc.14:07
mornfalllicense:        Proprietary14:07
mornfallthat's a little meh14:07
Veneno_jhi14:07
Stskeepsmornfall: supposedly the open version works too14:07
Stskeepsmornfall: qcom 4.1.2 in this particular combo had a closed source wlan, so we are using that for a supported config14:07
mornfallStskeeps: that'd be nice... more interestingly, I can't see a GSM driver14:07
Stskeepsbut later it was ossed14:08
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Stskeepsmornfall: ofono + RIL14:08
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Veneno_jhey Stskeeps :)14:09
Stskeepsmoo Veneno_j, when do you arrive friday?14:10
VenemoStskeeps: late in the evening :)14:11
Stskeepshow late?14:12
TofeVenemo: oh, maybe we'll meet, too14:12
VenemoStskeeps: 8:15 pm :)14:13
Venemoat charleroi14:13
sejodang pebble not yet there :P14:13
mtdballock, Nicd-: i wonder if this is relevant: "connmand[824]: Skipping disconnect of /ril_0/context1, network is connecting."14:13
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Nicd-I wouldn't know, sorry mtd14:13
StskeepsVenemo: oki, see you at the beer event then, hopefully ;)14:14
mtdNicd-: np,thx14:14
VenemoStskeeps: well, it's gonna be like 9pm or later when I get to Brussels itself, so not sure if I'll show up at the beer event14:15
mtdballock: aha, grep-ing for ril seems useful: "connmand[824]: Failed to change property: /ril_0 org.ofono.Modem.Powered: org.ofono.Error.Failed Operation failed"14:16
Stskeepshehe, we'll see, try to make it a priority14:16
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VenemoStskeeps: ok, I'll try! :)14:17
ballockStskeeps: does it mean that we could get rid of the baseband blob and replace it with an open-source driver from kernel.org?14:18
ballockor the blob is still there, but uploaded by open-source kernel module?14:19
mornfallStskeeps: RIL falls under -libhybris-sbj in your diagram?14:19
sejoStskeeps: ask for SeJo at the beerevent, I'll buy you a beer14:20
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Stskeepsballock: it goes roughly: sailfishos stack -> ofono -> socket connection to android RIL daemon -> which has loaded the QMI RIL library which speaks to the modem through hocus pocus kernel interfaces14:20
Stskeepsqmi ril library being the very closed part here14:20
ballockok, thanks14:21
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Stskeepsmornfall: nah for once something else14:21
Stskeepshttps://github.com/nemomobile-packages/ofono - ubuntu touch uses similar technology14:22
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mornfallStskeeps: well, rild is in droid-system-sbj (the rpm, anyway)14:24
Stskeepsyes14:25
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Stskeepsrild is open source, the ril plugin that it loads, isn't14:25
mornfall(the whole droid- thing looks a little kludgy :-)14:25
Stskeepsuh-huh14:25
mtdballock: FYI, 'systemctl restart ofono.service ; journalctl -e' just showed some log entries claiming that my SIM card was not in :(14:26
ballockwithout showing you a GUI that SIM card's out?14:26
mtdballock: I didn't notice anything in the UI14:27
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ballocka number of people complained about SIM being lost, but that was mostly reported in UI14:27
ballockand I really believed I'm not experiencing that...14:27
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mtdballock: yeah, I didn't think that was my problem, either.14:28
ballockok, I'll need to try the same when I experience some real outages14:28
ballockthe no baseband issue happened to me only once14:29
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mtdballock: but looking at the logs, none of connmand, ofono, or stated thought that the radio was on / sim registered14:29
ballockso it's pretty rare14:29
mtdballock: I could have missed something in the UI14:29
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mtdballock: actually I don't think I did miss something - the operator name displayed on the lock screen didn't get my attention, and I would have probably noticed that.14:30
mornfallStskeeps: so libril-qc-qmi-1.so is the main-CPU side of the blob?14:30
Stskeepsyes14:31
mornfallRIL is C++?14:31
ballocksounds like somebody is attempting a disassmbly?14:32
mornfallpff14:32
Stskeepsmornfall: can be everything but pretty certain it's not python14:32
Stskeeps:P14:32
ballockoh, sorry, I guess you're past that already14:33
ballockI heard there are some disassembly tools that can attempt a C or C++ code reconstruction14:33
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ballockbut then I'm the nb for that kind of things14:34
dschoepeThere's the boomerang decompiler, but in my experience it's easier to just read the disassembler output14:34
Nicd-yay, going to put my first app into harbour :)14:34
mornfallthere's ARM callgrind14:34
* mtd wonders what what vmtouch process with the huge library list is14:34
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mtds/what what/what that/14:35
Stskeepsmtd: smoke and mirrors14:35
mornfallbut of course the timing would be completely off, so not the best way to go about it if you suspect wrongdoing :-)14:35
Stskeepsmtd: and i think i owe you a beer for being the first person to ask14:35
mtdStskeeps: heh14:35
mtdStskeeps: I'm sure I'll be buying you a beer if we ever meet...enjoing the phone a lot.14:36
Stskeepsmtd: long story short it makes sure that basic libraries are never attempted to be flushed from memory when memory starts being so full it starts ejecting pages of code that it factually should keep running14:36
sejoanyone running the dvorak keyboard on sailfish?14:36
mtdStskeeps: ah, interesting14:36
Stskeepsmtd: i'm in no way happy about it but it reduced the shit hits the fan scenario a fair bit14:36
mtdStskeeps: I understand the choice of proces name, I think.14:37
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mornfallsejo: does it make it less painful to type on a touchscreen?14:37
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Stskeepsyes, compositor needs to keep running14:37
mtdStskeeps: :)14:37
sejomornfall: for me yes as I know there the keys are there :P, now I have to search for the letters ;P14:37
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mornfallsejo: I think it's a bother you still need to use letters... internet would do much better if it was more emoji-friendly.14:38
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ballockmornfall: yeah, just draw 'transparency' with your finger, and google-image will find a match ;)14:39
mornfallthe qmi blob is full of shit... you'd thought ril itself would provide most of that stuff14:39
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mornfallsomebody should nick the code from the vendor whoever that is so we could make fun of them14:40
mornfallmust pay engineers by the line14:40
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Stskeepstbh i'm fairly happy to have a known working telephony stack14:42
Stskeeps:P14:42
mornfallrild would be a *great* target for apparmor/selinux policy14:42
Stskeepsthat apps/OS doesn't use directly14:42
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mornfallwell, realistically, the particular QMI blob is probably not much of a problem in itself, the thing I could possibly worry about if I were paranoid was that it's probably full of RCE bugs on the baseband-facing side14:46
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mornfallso malicious baseband can splice anything it wants to into your running rild, and from there into your kernel14:46
Stskeepsthere's nothing stopping anybody from wiring up a different modem over bluetooth or something like that14:47
Stskeeps:P14:47
mornfallN900 :D14:47
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mornfallmakes you wonder if there are illicit GSM modules out there14:47
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mornfallof course that could land you in trouble with your carrier14:48
mornfallbut it's pretty nice that rild is non-root14:48
ballockStskeeps: the idea is cool, how do I do it?14:49
Stskeepswell, ofono documentation, perhaps a bit of pulseaudio a2dp etc14:49
mornfall(assuming the kernel is mostly free of local root exploits)14:50
ballockok, so audio through bluetooth, not the whole telephony stack14:51
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tbryou could talk to a modem over BT-SPP14:51
tbrif you'd want the audio on your jolla, you'd need to route it back over A2DP14:52
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Stskeepsballock: well, ofono does bluetooth modems too14:52
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Stskeepswith whatever protocol, maybe AT14:52
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tachikomamornfall: you know the calypso baseband modules?14:52
mornfallwhat I'm less happy with is that lipstick is kinda all-powerful :)14:53
tachikomathe stuff osmocombb supports14:53
Venemo:)14:53
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tachikomaI have two cheap motorola phones laying here on my desk - waiting for the day that i have too much time ;)14:55
tachikomafun fact - since the "let me answer that for you" talk on the ccc they price of these phones nearly doubled :)14:56
ballockStskeeps: so if ofono can handle my bluetooth  modem, so that would be the whole of communication, right? why do I need a2dp14:56
Stskeepsballock: audio to the other side?14:56
Stskeeps:P14:56
Stskeepsmay be HFP i'm talking about14:56
Stskeepsanyway, this is just hacking suggestions14:56
ggabrieltachikoma: which ccc?14:56
tachikomapetitionen ... da schreib ich leiber was an die wand vom bahnhofsklo14:56
tachikomaups, wrong windows, sorry14:56
tachikomaggabriel: i think 29c314:57
ggabrielATZ014:57
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ggabrieloops, wc14:57
ggabriel;)14:57
ggabrieltachikoma: i think i went to 26 or 27 and an interesting mention of the modem on those old motorolas was made too ;-)14:57
mornfallwhich version of Adreno is in Jolla again?14:57
tachikomaggabriel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1iZV2nl28A14:57
Stskeepsmornfall: 30514:58
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mornfall(lipstick being all-powerful doesn't really matter much when the GL linked into everything and their dog is a big questionmark)14:58
tachikomabasically they show how to disbale  agsm network with just a handful of phones (wherer the baseband chip is running custom software)14:58
ballockStskeeps: so ofono would handle the call handling (without voice) but that leaves the audio on the modem side?14:58
tachikomayou need to solder something inside the phone as well to make this work, but don;t ask me details, I was just watching for fun14:59
Stskeepsballock: yeah, that's what i'm implying14:59
Stskeepsmornfall: you could probably get rid of that at major loss of performance and camera ability/media playback with mesa llvmpipe14:59
mornfallStskeeps: that's indeed a major loss of performance :-)14:59
ballockthis was running through my head already, still I did not get myself to doing it14:59
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Stskeepsanyway, a lot of crazy experiments are possible on the device15:00
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Stskeeps:P15:00
mornfallStskeeps: although considering it's qHD and the CPU isn't exactly wimpy, you could possibly squeeze 30fps out of it... battery will suffer of course15:00
mornfallnot that it's something I'd want to try15:01
Stskeepsmornfall: indeed, i did this on n415:02
mornfallphone's a phone, life's too short for trying to make it into a secure thing15:03
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ggabrieltachikoma: sounds like the follow up to the one i've been to. sadly, i'm meant to be working now so i can't watch :(15:03
mornfallI'll stick with a laptop with all radios gutted for my shady stuff ;-)15:03
TheBootroo_Will qt5.2 be part of the update of this month ?15:03
mornfallTheBootroo_: what makes you think there'll be an update this month? :P15:04
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ggabrielmornfall: public announcements?15:04
tachikomaggabriel: what i really like is the fact that the whole osmocombb stuff is already packaged ready to be used for opensuse ;)15:04
TheBootroo_momfall: they promised it "very soon (TM)"15:04
mornfallTheBootroo_: very soon is very vague :)15:04
* mornfall gives his calendar an incredulous look15:04
TheBootroo_momfall: january is nearly over15:04
mornfallexactly15:05
EztranIt's tagged [jan14] on together.15:05
mornfallTheBootroo_: also, use tab15:05
HarhaanJohtajathey said january.But what year?15:05
mornfallTheBootroo_: and get a font with proper kerning, whatever you have is busted15:05
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TheBootroo_mornfall: nope, only my IRC client is kinda PITA with tab15:05
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TheBootroo_have to type lot of chars to get the right nick15:06
mornfallTheBootroo_: what is it, ofc?15:06
TheBootroo_CIRC15:06
TheBootroo_nice client for the rest, but tab behavior kinda annoying15:06
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mornfallinteresting15:06
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PnuuTheBootroo_: irssi!15:07
TheBootroo_Pnuu: i wont change, don't start proposals15:07
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TheBootroo_;-)15:07
mornfallTheBootroo_: you could at least change the font :P15:08
PnuuTheBootroo_: not a proposal, but a statement ;-D15:08
Pnuufont?15:08
TheBootroo_i know irssi, Konversation, Xchat, and the usual folks but i don't like them15:08
mornfallPnuu: if rn looks like m, the font is busted15:08
mornfallor the renderer, pick your poison15:08
TheBootroo_mornfall: the issue is more on my eyes size than on the font itself15:08
Pnuuoh, missed that15:09
TheBootroo_anyway, i find Mom Fall cool too XD15:09
mornfallcouldn't happen with -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-*-*-*-c-*-iso10646-115:09
mornfallTheBootroo_: :D15:09
TheBootroo_omfg15:09
TheBootroo_i would go Ubuntu Light or Ubuntu Mono if i could change the font15:10
TheBootroo_more legible15:10
mornfalland while we are at it, together sucks in w3m-mode15:10
mornfallwhen is the sailfish tablet coming out again? :-)15:11
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TheBootroo_oh and proper duplex caldav support in calendar !15:12
TheBootroo_my phone is primarly a personal assistant, so ATM without my GCal synced on it it's pretty useless alone, still need to open a computer many times a day15:13
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mornfallhmm, a calendar15:13
mornfallI have upgraded from gcal to paper taped on wall.15:14
mornfallbut it's fairly unportable15:14
mornfalland doesn't give out reminders15:14
TheBootroo_mornfall: i'm rarely at home and i can't always bring a 100x80cm paper with me15:14
mornfallowncloud runs on caldav doesn't it?15:14
TheBootroo_and yeah, reminders....15:14
sejois the full sailfish theme somewhere described?15:14
sejowhat icons are there (covericons fex)15:15
mornfallsejo: where did you find a dvorak layout btw?15:17
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sejomornfall: I haven't installed one yet on my jolla, I do have one on my htc one15:20
sejoand all my computers15:20
mornfallI see.15:20
sejoswiftkey for android15:20
mornfallI don't have any android devices.15:20
sejoI'm going to play around with the jolla tonight15:20
sejomaybe I can figure out how to create one15:20
mornfallI type dvorak on real computers though.15:20
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sejosince I switched 6 years ago I haven't looked back to another keyboard layout15:21
tachikomai wonder how high the dvorak user rate is among the jolla customers and how that compares to the normal world ...15:21
zuttolearning dvorak after using qwerty for so long is painful :<15:22
mornfallsejo: pah, 6 years, I'm approaching 1215:22
sharpnelizutto: Which is why I'm not going to bother. Also very very rarely typing speed is an issue anywhere.15:22
zuttomornfall: swiftkey hasnt been around 12 years tho15:22
mornfallzutto: neither has android (at least not in a commercial form)15:23
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zuttowell technically it has15:23
zuttosince linux15:23
ballockdarn, seems I'm past 20 years of qwerty keyboard usage15:23
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mornfallzutto: that's like saying sailfish was created in 9315:23
ballockI didn't think I'm *that* old15:23
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entilI'd like something like swiftkey too. there were some circular keyboards that worked the same way15:24
mornfallballock: unless you switched from non-qwerty that probably makes you fairly young :P15:24
Venemoguys there're only 4 days left of this month. it's high time to see the new update :)15:24
zuttomornfall: well sailfish is just softwares dumped ontop of linux, so technically you could say that15:24
zutto:P15:24
zuttosame thing with android15:24
ballockmornfall: phew, thanks, that's a relief15:25
mornfallzutto: and linux is just softwares dumped ontop of a C compiler, you could say it was invented in the 70s15:25
zuttobasicly, yeah15:25
mornfallactually... :D stone age anyone?15:25
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mornfalland you know, it's all made of atoms anyway15:26
entilI did ask about this once and no one said anything, but is it possible to change the keyboard app with jolla? or what would be the procedure to start doing that?15:26
Stskeepsentil: google around for jolla keyboard layouts at least15:26
mornfallentil: I'd start by checking the hangul/emoji packages on openrepos15:26
EztranChanging the 'app': not so easy. Changing layouts is.15:26
entila layout is slightly different from the app15:27
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entilbecause changing the app would mean something like swiftkey or a circular keyboard could work15:27
mornfallVenemo: I haven't seen this much restlessness (in others or myself) for a new release of a piece of software for a long while :)15:27
mornfallentil: what I really want is a chorded OH keyboard anyway15:28
mornfallslideout qwerty might be a close second15:28
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entilOH keyboards sure, but you got what I'm after here? and the answer is it's not really possible?15:28
EztranHmm. Wonder if maliit could do a chorded keyboard? Never really looked up its limitations.15:28
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mornfallentil: did you even look?15:28
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Venemomornfall: I have. it was when we were waiting for Harmattan PR1.1 for the N950 ;)15:29
mornfallVenemo: I skipped N9(50)15:29
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entiloh crap, this article http://linuxg.net/how-to-install-the-emoji-keyboard-on-jollas-sailfish-os/ is newer than the last time I cared about this15:29
entilrapid development, let's see if there's any value in that15:29
Venemomornfall: well, it was the same when people were waiting for PR1.x on the N900 ;)15:29
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mornfallentil: the hangul one is probably more interesting to you btw.15:30
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tachikomaso, any updates on the horizon and will my jolla store work again after that? ;)15:30
mornfallVenemo: I'm a N900 latecomer, actually. I got it after I lost my 3310 in Brazil.15:30
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mornfallVenemo: I think it was around the time N9 came out.15:30
entilhttps://github.com/peremen/jolla-input-ko this? mornfall?15:30
mornfallentil: presumably (I really don't like github atm :-)15:31
mornfalllemme make a clone15:31
Venemomornfall: ah, then you missed out on the good times :)15:31
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entilok.. I can't install anything right now, so I'll have to contemplate that later15:31
mornfallyeah, that15:31
entilbut if it's rather a new app than a layout, we're on to something15:32
mornfallVenemo: my wife uses the N900 now :-) I'd probably get her a Jolla but it's kinda expensive right now and she doesn't complain. :-)15:32
mornfallHas better use for money I guess.15:33
mornfallAnyway, #sailfishos is dozing off, anyone know if I can point OBS at a git repo to get RPMs?15:33
mornfallMy SDK is busted and I wanted to upload a fix to Harbour.15:33
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Venemook, so everyone who's interested, here's a demo of our IRC app for Jolla: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJs3599Nj2015:35
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* ballock wonders how difficult it would be to sailhack his wife's Samsung Galaxy Young15:35
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ballocksomebody rooted it, at least that's what google says15:36
ballockso just need a disaster recovery scheme15:37
ballockand a way to upload a rom15:37
faenilVenemo, do I see it right, you didn't join #nemomobile15:39
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* faenil looks for a whip15:42
Venemosorry faenil but it's not (yet) a Nemo app15:42
mornfalla whip?15:42
faenilmornfall, yes, I've got a whip for naughty boys like Venemo who don't promote nemomobile15:43
Venemolol15:43
mornfallfaenil: you are naughty yourself15:43
* faenil grins15:44
vatteis there an easy way to backup address book from jolla?15:45
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vatteI can't seem to find that info, and I _need_ to factory reset :D15:46
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mornfallvatte: I'd start by rsyncing $HOME to a computer15:46
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kontiovatte: https://together.jolla.com/question/384/export-vcf-from-people/#post-id-75815:47
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vattekontio: ok, great!15:48
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Venemo_jStskeeps: btw, how long is the beer event?16:09
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StskeepsVenemo_j: Friday, 31 January 2014 from 18:00(-ish) onwards, but feel free to join the party at any time of the evening. We will be there until the bar closes (well after midnight).16:17
Stskeepshttps://fosdem.org/2014/practical/beerevent/16:17
Venemo_jStskeeps: ah, ok. I stay at the place of a relative and don't want to upset him by showing up too late16:19
Stskeepsnod16:19
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kehnoosolution: show up early in the morning :p16:19
ggabrielsolution: invite the relative to the beer event16:20
Pnuurelativistic beer event16:20
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mornfallVenemo_j: You are Hungarian btw.?16:25
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Venemo_jmornfall: yep16:26
Venemo_j:)16:26
Venemo_jmornfall: why?16:27
mornfallI was watching your communi video. :-)16:27
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Venemo_jggabriel: the relative isn't a developer so the event is not of interest to him16:28
Venemo_jmornfall: is my accent so bad?16:28
ggabrielVenemo_j: but but beer!!16:28
ggabrielVenemo_j: i was just joking anyway ofc you have to be considerate16:28
mornfallVenemo_j: not bad, but recognizably Hungarian16:28
Venemo_jmornfall: ah, you are the first to recognize it16:29
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mornfallVenemo_j: might be it's only recognizable because I lived on Hungarian border for 15 years, give or take...16:29
Venemo_jmornfall: maybe I'm out of practice16:29
mornfallin Komárno, specifically16:29
kehnoowatched that video too, super impressive :)16:30
kehnoowas the laptop some sort of asus zenbook? :p16:30
Venemo_jmornfall: I've never been there16:30
Venemo_jkehnoo: yes, UX31A16:30
Venemo_jkehnoo: thanks for the nice words :)16:30
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Venemo_jmornfall: and where do you live now?16:31
mornfallI'm kinda surprised it's not on jollausers yet.16:31
mornfallVenemo_j: Břeclav, CZ16:32
Venemo_jnah, I just made it less than an hour ago16:32
mornfallI know. :D16:32
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mornfallI can be seen complaining about the lipstick monolith in the vid.16:33
kehnooyeah, I've got one as well, it has some silly ssd cache which I just used to install Linux for dual boot goodness :)16:34
Stskeepsmornfall: forever locked away in the evil empire..16:34
Stskeeps:P16:34
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nanderAwesome, a new transatlantic album16:39
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entil:O http://www.radiantrecords.com/category/2-transatlantic.aspx17:12
entilout tomorrow17:12
entilnander: thanks, I would've completely missed that otherwise17:12
nanderoops, that means it has leaked17:13
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nanderentil, I aquired it otherwise ;)17:14
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Nicd-remember to buy if you like ;)17:14
nanderif I like it enough to spend the budget I have for music on it ;)17:14
nanderI already preordered an album for this year17:15
nanderStream of passions 4th studio album ;)17:15
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nanderI found out that transatlantic has a new album through hakens facebook ;)17:15
Nicd-well I can't judge, I copy music from the library quite often...17:16
Nicd-it' legal though17:16
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nanderThis wasn't legal17:16
Venemo_jso, where's this month's sailfish update?17:16
nanderI aquire most of my music from the network that does *not* exist on my campus17:16
nanderVenemo_j there was no update confirmed this month17:17
ggabrielVenemo_j: arriving latest this Friday17:17
ggabrielyes it was :P17:17
ggabrielthere's a twitter about it17:17
nanderEveryone thought it'd be in january, but..17:17
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Venemo_jnander: not true17:17
nanderI thought it was only confirmed to be monthly17:17
nanderNot every month17:17
ggabrielthere was a tiny leak and everything17:17
Venemo_jggabriel: link please17:17
ggabrielnander: they said there would be one on January17:17
entilwait wat stream of passion.. wasn't that a.a.lucassen's project originally?17:17
ggabrielVenemo_j: somebody posted a link yesterday, mentioned in tmo, original is in finnish as it was done in a dna store17:18
nanderJup17:18
ggabrielsorry can't search now17:18
nanderEntil, it continued after arjen left17:18
entilyeah, seems like there was a spinoff or something17:18
Venemo_jthey said there'd me one every month. I don't see why you need additional confirmation for january17:18
nanderhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nzRCJnumNY&list=PLjoyJiXc-d6A1JGqvOwXbGYCmw9k2f9zt17:18
nanderIt was intended this way17:18
ggabrielmy point is that they said specifically jan '14 in some twitter post17:18
nanderArjen wanted to kickstart Marcela Bovios carreer17:18
ggabrielanyway17:18
ggabrieli won't die if there isn't one :)17:19
nanderLol17:19
nanderThat's fun17:19
Venemo_jI will17:19
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entilnander: I'll get on youtube later17:19
ggabrielactually, i'll die regardless, eventually17:19
nanderggabriel, you'll turn immortal if jolla doesn't release it this month?17:19
nander;)17:19
ggabrielnander: way ahead of you mate17:19
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entilI'm off anyway, thanks for the heads-up on the transatlantic album, and maybe I'll look into stream of passion's newer stuff17:21
nanderentil - Stream of Passion ditched their label and are now an independent band ;)17:21
entilyeah, I read on wikipedia17:21
entilunfortunately I got to go now, bye->17:21
nanderbye ;)17:21
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nanderawesome, a nights in white satin cover on the new transatlantic album ;)17:31
dafoxhi guys. I seem to be having a small problem with my camera; since this morning it doesn't show the picture any more, just a black screen.17:31
dafoxI can still take a picture and see it in the gallery, so the hardware is still working17:32
dafoxI've tried rebooting the phone, but didn't help17:32
dafoxany ideas?17:32
nanderDid you put paint on it?17:32
dafoxif so, then I wouldn't be able to see it in the gallery either ;)17:33
cb400fthis black screen doesn't have icons for flash etc. either?17:34
dafoxno, those are there, and so is the 'take picture' button, just everything that the camera sees is black17:34
mornfallhmm, the SSL handling in the browser is grossly inadequate17:34
dafoxSwitching between front/rear camera does not help either17:35
nanderI use a different browser17:35
nanderI think it was called webcat17:35
Pnuumornfall: both in the jolla version and webcat :-/17:35
mornfallif it encounters an invalid certificate, it gives me no info at all to figure out what's wrong...17:35
nanderseems to work quite decently17:35
dafoxAlso the camera application often gets unresponse (I get the blue popup)17:35
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mornfallmost likely, it's missing Terena's CA in the bundle... but I can't know, it doesn't tell me anything about the cert it doesn't like17:36
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Pnuumornfall: fails for every https I've tried17:37
Pnuuboth of the browsers17:37
mornfallwebcat gives SSL handshake failed17:38
mornfallbuiltin works if I take it on blind faith17:38
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Nokiusif i remember right some one post on together how to add cer to Browser17:45
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Nokiushttps://together.jolla.com/question/835/browser-personal-certificates-import/17:47
Nokiushere17:47
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Stskeepshttp://www.engadget.com/2014/01/16/lg-optimus-f3q-leak/18:45
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dafoxHi again. I had to disconnect for a bit, did anyone reply to my camera-app-shows-only-black-screen problem while I was gone? Or does anyone have an idea why the camera might have suddenly stopped working?18:52
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AL13N_lappyi was certain there was a regulatory domain post on together, but i can't find it19:24
AL13N_lappyanyone help me out?19:24
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clauI think my Store just went berserk: it keeps telling me there's an update for Quick Launcher, and it fails to update it20:21
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Quuthat happens20:21
claupkcon get-updates shows no such thing, so it must be Store, I guess20:21
clauis it related to the bug that offers 1.0.2.5 again and again?20:22
Raimclau: do you also have the repo from OpenRepos/Warehouse enabled?20:26
clauyes20:26
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clauI had some similar issues because of it, but only for apps that were present in both Store and Warehouse20:26
claucurrently I can't find Quick Launcher in Warehouse20:27
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clauI'll try to identify the repo it was using and disable it20:27
Raimhm, right, it's not available in OpenRepos, my bad20:28
clauI had it installed initially from openrepos though20:28
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Abby30 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos6921:10
Quueh21:10
Quufucking spambots21:10
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Quudo not open that pornvideo url.21:10
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AcceThere she goes, our lovely lady21:11
Quuand its ref-link lol21:11
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Acceone more function and I can finally submit this update21:15
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vanadisis there a way to access the gps data by ssh?21:45
vanadiscan't find my jolla ;_;21:46
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narchieanyone else feel severely gimped by non-sailfsh devices?21:49
narchiebought an ipad mini this summer21:50
narchiegreat device21:50
narchiebut when i got jolla the ux feels like something from the 1600s21:50
narchiedon't use it too much anymore ;_;21:51
narchieother mobile devices are ruined for me21:51
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narchie;_;21:51
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mornfallnarchie: well, sailfish did kinda ruin N900 for me22:00
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mornfallonly whenever I flip jolla to landscape, I reflexively try to slide out the keyboard22:00
mornfalland then cry a little and misspell everything on the onscreen kbd22:01
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* SpeedEvil sighs.22:06
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FIQI had to use a galaxy gio at some point because my N900 decided to break22:08
FIQit had a very sucky touch screen22:09
FIQand no hw kbd22:09
FIQthe horror...22:09
* FIQ has yet to find a vkbd he likes22:09
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keithzgFIQ: The N9 vkbd is the only one that I've ever enjoyed using. Everything else is a slog (although some more recent Android devices like the N4 and N5 have gotten less terrible).22:23
keithzgBut of course my fingers still long for the N900's keys ;)22:23
tehdelyi miss swype22:24
tehdelyi really hope they port it to jolla, but i'm not keeping my fingers crossed...22:24
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keithzgYeah the clout and (at the time) market strength of Nokia, plus their existing relationship (at least, I vaguely remember Swype being available for Symbian) brought it build-into the N9. Certainly Swype hasn't really bothered with non-Android OSes since then.22:27
AL13N_lappyStskeeps: did you know the regulatory.bin file has a bad sign?22:28
AL13N_lappy(crda)22:29
keithzgBut I dunno, I'm accurate enough on the N9 I never find myself using it. And also I can reach the full screen easily enough with one hand. The addition of Swype-style usage to the default Android keyboard was good and I've used *that*, but nonetheless never felt the need on my N9.22:29
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tehdelykeithzg: wasn't strong enough to get a working release for Belle FP222:29
tehdelyswype is utterly broken on my 808pv and will never be fixed :/22:29
keithzgtehdely: Well sure, but by *that* point Swype would be quite justified in knowing that a relationship with Nokia would no longer get them anywhere, since the OS side was now Microsoft (and they aren't terribly amenable to core components of their mobile OS being modded).22:30
jake9xxtehdely: :( 808pv was/is iconic device22:31
tehdelyjake9xx: i bought one only a few months ago.  it's so abandoned and a lot of stuff half works22:31
tehdelybut i love it22:31
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tehdelyplus, i wanted to say i owned the last symbian handset ever made ;)22:31
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tehdelykeithzg: i find it interesting how alien dalvik was originally slated for release with the n922:32
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tehdelyand was shelved at the last moment22:32
tehdelypresumably due to nokia's new microsoft partnership22:32
tehdelyi wonder what other features were left out of the n9 right at release time due to the New State of Affairs22:32
tehdelyas it was, the N9 was nokia's flagship in a few markets, but i'm just trying to imagine what it would have been like if it had launcheda s their _true_ flagship22:33
tehdelywith all the bells and whistles22:33
jake9xxguess eelop did not want to see that happen22:34
jake9xxeven with zero marketing n9 was sold out22:34
keithzgWell, there were at least a few things that made it in just barely and might well have been overridden if Nokia management was more hands-on, like Felipec's swipe-down-to-close.22:34
tehdelyheh, didn't realize that was on the chopping block22:35
tehdelythat seems so key to the interface!22:35
keithzghttp://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/08/14/n9-swipe-undocumented-feature-activate-sane-behavior/22:35
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keithzgApparently he coded that himself after being fed up by nobody taking his arguments seriously ;)22:35
tehdelyreminds me of the other undocumented features22:36
tehdelysuch as traffic routing in maps22:36
tehdelythat you could enable just by uncommenting a bunch of stuff in the qml22:36
tehdelyreally in a lot of ways my jolla feels like a step _back_ from what shipped with the n9, but it has a future, and the n9 had none22:36
tehdelyi hope we get a real HERE Drive for jolla, but i'm not counting on it22:36
tehdelyi'm just imagining my n9 with an android runtime, and a full office suite22:37
specialwhat we have now is only the beginning.22:37
tehdelythe good news, special22:37
tehdelyis that i believe you 110%22:37
tehdely:)22:37
specialit's especially amazing when looking back at what we had, say, 8 months ago22:37
tehdelyi have to hand it to google, btw.  they have inadvertently created the equivalent of the PC clone market22:38
specialcertainly doesn't feel like we've slowed down at all..22:38
tehdelywhich is what made room for desktop linux22:38
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tehdelyjust like it's making room for firefoxOS/sailfish/etc.22:38
keithzgYeah the N9 features are kindof a mix, some things that folks snuck in under the radar and other things that were intended officially and never got quite finished thanks to the change in direction. Jolla doesn't have that backing behind it, but has that heart and head that made the truly unique things about the N9/Harmattan :)22:38
tehdelywould you say the existence of a common specification for android, and libhybris, probably chopped your development time in half22:38
tehdelyin terms of bringing a phone to market?22:38
* keithzg is really looking forwards to his Jolla, even if it'll be sadly wifi-only.22:39
specialnot my area. libhybris is amazing as hardware adaptation goes, though, having seen for example the n9 adaptation of nemo22:39
tehdelyand by common specification i'm refering to the HAL22:39
tehdelykeithzg: wifi-only?22:39
keithzgtehdely: que my normal sad rant about how almost nobody supports pentaband UMTS anymore :P22:40
tehdelykeithzg: did anyone oterh than Nokia ever support pentaband UMTS?22:40
mornfallkeithzg: where are you?22:40
tehdelything is jolla doesn't even have the AT&T bands22:40
tehdelyi'm surprised anyone even ships a radio without support for at least one NAM UMTS band22:40
tehdelyperhaps one just needs to flip a bit in the baseband and they will be magically activated22:40
tehdely~*~ i can hope ~*~22:40
keithzgtehdely: Google does, ie. N4, N5 and N7. Most others though only support Band IV on certain models, few pentaband devices.22:41
tehdelyanyhow i've gotten used to using jolla on GSM here22:41
keithzgmornfall: I am in Soviet Canuckistan ;)22:41
tehdelyi keep it tethered to an LTE MiFi  in my backpack for data22:41
tehdelyonly problem si the wifi connection goes out a lot, and i haven't had time to debug22:41
mornfallI don't think I know what that means. :-)22:42
tehdelyalso every now and then i get into this awful "Problem with Connection" loop22:42
tehdelywhere some service keeps INSISTING on trying to grab a data connection and just pegs the shit out of the phone22:42
keithzgmornfall: heh, I live in Canada.22:42
tehdelyi can't even navigate into settings to try to fix it22:42
tehdelybecause i'm just being constantly assaulted with "Problem with Connection"22:42
tehdelyand end up rebooting the phone22:42
tehdelybut that only happens once every two or three days or so ;)22:42
tehdelymornfall: means i have a mobile access point in my backpack that sits on AT&T's LTE network22:43
tehdelyand i tether my jolla to it over wifi22:43
mornfallkeithzg: so you only get 2G on Jolla itself?22:43
tehdelyyes22:43
keithzgtehdely: Yeah, I might have to do something similar to that, just carrying around a wifi hotspot device of some kind. I have two SIMs and one is data-only, anyways.22:43
tehdely(i can answer for both of us)22:43
keithzgYup.22:43
tehdelykeithzg: i had one anyway, for work22:43
mornfallHm.22:43
tehdelyso it's no sweat off my back to use it w/ the jolla22:43
tehdelyi mean, it's a clunky arrangement22:43
tehdelyand requires some setup/etc.  but it does work, more or less22:44
mornfallAnd when Jolla gets 4G that won't help because it's still in the wrong bands hm?22:44
tehdelycorrect.22:44
mornfallThat sucks.22:44
keithzgHave the bands actually been announced yet?22:44
tehdelysomeone asked22:45
tehdelyand got the info22:45
tehdelyi forget where it's posted22:45
tehdelyit's around :)22:45
mornfallt.m.o probably22:45
mornfallalso someone took the phone apart and looked at part numbers22:45
tehdelyanyhow i still wonder about the actual parts22:45
tehdelywhether the physical radio chipset actually supports more bands than the phone itself supports22:45
tehdelyand the additional ones simply aren't enabled in firmware22:45
tehdelyi could see an upstart phone manufacturer doing that who didn't have time to pursue certification in the US ;)22:45
mornfalltehdely: that probably depends on antenna geometry22:45
keithzgI mean, won't matter for me anyways since my carrier had to drop out of the 700mHz auction here in Canada thanks to the steep entrance bids, which was their only hope of LTE coverage really.22:46
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keithzgtehdely: That certainly happens quite a lot, I remember some Android phones out there that one could make work on AWS just by flashing different radio firmware.22:46
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mornfallkeithzg: you could try to look for a US/Canada android phone with the same radio22:48
tehdelywell first one must find out what radio is inside22:48
keithzg^this22:49
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mornfallLocation: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9224322:49
tehdelyactually, someone from Jolla just got back to me w/ instructions for enabling US 3/4G22:50
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tehdelyi can't believ ethis22:50
tehdelyit is so simple22:50
mornfallThe main RF amplifier it's an ACPM-7251 manufactured by "Avago Technologies".22:50
mornfallTeoricaly, it supports GSM (850/900), EDGE (1800/1900), UMTS (850/900/2100) and LTE (850)22:50
tehdelypress left right left right up down up down start select22:50
tehdely:P22:50
mornfalltehdely: ?22:50
tehdelyNES reference ;)22:51
keithzgheh Konami code22:51
mornfallyeah, ok, I get that bit22:51
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tehdelymornfall: well that is promising!22:52
tehdelyhmm, no 1900 though22:52
tehdelyi'm trying to remember what band AT&T UMTS uses22:52
mornfallalso, JollaHQ already confirmed LTE bands to be bands 3 (1800 MHz), 7 (2600 MHz), 20 (800 MHz).22:52
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keithzgHmmm.22:54
keithzgSo the one RF amplifier definitely doesn't support 1700, but there are at least two, and that second one appears to be doing at least some of those LTE frequencies.22:54
mornfalland the ACPM seems to be not used for LTE anyway22:54
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tehdelykeithzg: well it doesn't support 1900 for UMTS either22:55
tehdelyso i'm still out of luck on AT&T22:55
tehdelyAT&T 3G is 850/1900 IIRC22:55
mornfallthe whole band allocation thing is a huge mess22:56
tehdelyoh yeah it's a disaster22:56
tehdelyeach subsequent standard has actually multiplied the number of bands and band combinations in use22:56
tehdelyeven as the world has converged on more or less one air interface22:57
keithzgtehdely: Is that actually a pair like UMTS IV is (which requres both 1700 AND 2100 to function), or are those separate? In the latter case, couldn't you just use 850mHz and live with lower thoroughput?22:57
tehdelyit's become less and less possible to create an actual "world" phone22:57
tehdelywhich is a sweet irony which I imagine phone manufacturers don't mind one bit :)22:57
tehdelywell, at least until tunable antennas become practical22:57
keithzgYeahhhh, everyone finally decided on LTE, so they had to offset that by using a dozen different frequencies.22:57
keithzgSoftware Defined Radio will save us! ;)22:57
tehdelygood question re: whether it's a pair22:58
keithzgI actually suspect it isn't (certainly not to the degree that Band IV is), but carriers have certainly done annoying things like specify voice on one frequency and data on another, making you screwed if you don't have both.23:00
keithzgtehdely: Looks like it'd be fine just as long as you actually *do* have 850MHz coverage in your area. http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1732720-If-one-had-a-phone-that-only-had-3G-850MHz-for-the-Americas-will-it-roam-on-AT-amp-T!?s=6df44af6ee4c3dd7da5cf79a90e0d565&p=14540658#post14540658 Although I assume by now that rollout is fairly complete.23:03
tehdelyin any case, sure didn't pick up any 3G here in SF23:05
tehdelyi imagine there'd be a firmware component as well23:05
tehdelyor perhaps even a pin that needs to be wired, and isn't23:06
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