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yogiso, my jolla is stuck in a reboot loop :(10:24
Nicd-pull the battery for 10 minutes10:25
yogiI can get it into recovery mode (well, I think -- top left of screen says "fastboot mode") but can't get usb networking to work10:25
yogiI left the battery out overnight to no avail10:25
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yogihave tried both windows (with the rndis driver install etc) and linux (modprobing usbnet/cdc_ether etc.)10:26
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yogiwill try the battery thing again as it's acting even more weird now (only way to switch on is by plugging in USB)10:27
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clauyogi, have you done something that might have caused it?10:32
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yoginot really - it's possible the fs needs a fsck. It went into the loop last night while it was in my pocket, but I'd been taking the back cover off earlier in the day to demo TOH10:33
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yogiit was doing a lot of random reboots yesterday, and I had to issue a few manual reboots due to stuff glitching out (problems with network connection etc.)10:36
clauhave you tried to search on together.jolla.com for this issue? maybe there are some useful advices there.10:37
yogiyeah, they suggest using recovery mode to fix it with either fsck or factory reset10:37
yogibut I can't get usb networking in recovery mode to work10:38
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yogiI've been using my old N9 usb cable though, but I doubt that makes a difference10:40
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yogiOK - so after 10 mins, power button works again w/ battery in, but it just displays image with usb cable pointing to stripey power square thing. So presumably battery is a bit dead from all the looping. So I plug in USB, and then it just goes into a loop again :(10:42
yogiso unplug USB, loop stops and it's dead. Replug in USB with volume down held, goes into fastboot mode, but still no USB networking :(10:44
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yogiLED is solid blue once in fastboot if that means anything10:48
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FireFlyI could get you the list of LED patterns if you want to match against that, but I don't know more about them than you do11:02
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yogiyeah, I just noticed in https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sailfish/Backup_Device they talk about the LED going red once networking is up11:03
yogiof course following that, the "fastboot -i 0x2931 boot boot-telnet-initrd.img" step fails because of the bootloader update11:04
yogi(presumably)11:04
FireFlyDoes 'solid blue' mean no blinking? is it blue as in #00F or more cyan-y blue?11:05
FireFlyOh, yeah11:05
yogino blinking, light blue11:05
yogiso yeah more cyan-y11:06
FireFlyHm11:06
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FireFly"PatternDeviceOn=254;0;0;0;0;0000ff" "PatternDeviceSoftOff=253;0;0;0;0;00ffff"11:06
FireFlyEither of those, I guess11:06
yogi"fastboot -i 0x2931 reboot" works in that it triggers the reboot loop11:06
FireFlyYou could perhaps ask Stskeeps tomorrow or something11:07
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yogilooks like I'm in the same boat as this guy: https://together.jolla.com/question/30671/unable-to-recover-i-can-get-only-to-fastboot-mode-and-it-doesnt-answer-to-pc/11:35
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yogisyslog indicates I had rndis working at one point, but can't figure out how to do it11:35
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tbryogi: make sure you try also with the usb cable disconnected to enter recovery11:37
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yogitbr: I think the battery is too flat to do that11:39
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yogitrying to find a way of charging it11:39
Venemogood morning guys :)11:39
yogiobvious approach results in boot loop which doesn't seem to effective at charging11:40
yogi*too11:40
yogiI've managed to somehow get it stuck in a state where it is frozen with the jolla logo showing only, hopefully that'll work11:41
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yogiyay, progress!11:50
yogigot into telnet finally11:50
yogiand it boots! (after doing the btrfs recovery)11:52
tbrso was it the usb cable?11:52
yogiso the trick was to do PWR+VOLDN with USB connected to power not to laptop11:53
tbrah11:53
yogiif I did it with laptop, it entered fastboot mode which is apparently different to recovery mode (despite some misinformation out there to the contrary)11:53
tbryes, very different :)11:54
yogisuch a relief that it's working again now11:54
yogionly took 3 hours :)11:54
* tbr can imagine that11:54
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clauyogi, congrats :)12:27
claumake sure you vote on the solution(s), if you found it on TJC, so people have a better chance to solve it themselves.12:27
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yogiyeah I added a comment to the main TJC q/a about boot loops12:29
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kimmolipromoting rather old answer https://together.jolla.com/question/1009/gallery-zooming-in-and-out-to-photos/?answer=5375#post-id-537512:43
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chem|styogi: for the next time, the device seems to charge in recovery mode (Jolla logo)13:30
yogiah cool, thanks13:31
chem|stat least my sister's got out of the bootlooping issues with 98% battery13:32
chem|stshe tried to get to the recovery screen on the device for +30min13:32
chem|stthen I helped her another 30min and finally it was booting again13:33
chem|stsome time in between it was stuck on the jolla screen without interaction so that would mean it charges (was never confirmed by anyone)13:33
Venemohow does this even happen? my jolla's never had any such issues13:34
chem|stVenemo: the btrfs gets corrupted13:34
Venemochem|st: how?13:34
chem|stprobably powerloss during write13:34
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Venemoheh13:34
Venemohow is that possible?13:35
Venemotaking out the battery at the wrong moment?13:35
clauand why doesn't btrfs self heal?13:35
Venemobecause it's shit?13:36
clauolder, less sophisticated fs's do a better job at that13:36
chem|stcould be several things happening lie the bat goes flat or a controller has hickup and bootloops without shutdown13:36
VenemoI had a btrfs partition on my laptop which decided it ran out of space, even though the partition was half empty13:36
clauthat's a reasonable answer, venemo :)13:36
chem|stVenemo: inodes...13:37
Venemofortunately, the guys at #btrfs were quite helpful and showed me how to rebalance it13:37
chem|stwhat was it?13:37
claunewfs ? :P13:37
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Venemowhat was what?13:38
chem|stclau: do you know a bootloader being able to repair a bootpartition's fs on the fly13:38
chem|stVenemo: what did you do to fix it?13:38
clauI'm not into that stuff, all I can compare it to is desktops.13:39
Venemochem|st: I rebalanced the filesystem according to: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Problem_FAQ#I_get_.22No_space_left_on_device.22_errors.2C_but_df_says_I.27ve_got_lots_of_space13:39
clauchem|st: why would the bootloader have to deal with it anyway?13:40
chem|stVenemo: so yes the fs occupies all metadata space13:41
clauhow corrupt has the fs have to be such that the bootloader can't load the kernel etc13:41
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Venemochem|st: it seems that btrfs doesn't handle well the use cases when there's a LOT of small files13:41
chem|stclau: when the bootpartition is corrupted the bootloader is the only one who could repair it13:41
Venemochem|st: from that time on, I basically had to rebalance it every month or so13:41
chem|sthmm13:42
clauI'm sorry, but my bootloader on desktop never had this issue.13:42
chem|stthat is something they need to fix, cause that makes it basically unfit for /13:42
clauthe os always deals with fs corruption.13:42
chem|stclau: you never had a corrupted disk?13:42
Venemochem|st: this was maybe a year and a half ago, I'm sure they've improved it a lot since then13:42
Venemochem|st: anyway, I decided not to take any more chances and I don't use btrfs on the laptop13:43
clauoh, I had. but not as bad as to not be able to load the kernel.13:43
clauif it gets so corrupted, there's something terribly wrong with the fs.13:43
chem|stclau: remove the fstables from your boot partition and reboot... you will see that you wont get anywhere without a second partition you can boot into a recovery mode13:44
Venemoalso, I'm not sure how old the btrfs implementation of the jolla is13:44
VenemoI know they backported it from a newer kernel or something13:44
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Venemobut I heard it's still incompatible with recent kernels...13:45
clauchem|st: why can that happen?13:45
chem|stpowerloss while the table gets written13:45
clauit's not done correctly then.13:46
clausee freebsd's softupdates for instance.13:46
chem|stthat is why any machine with raid or fancy setups should have a recovery partition or batteries13:46
Venemoso, don't unplug the battery then the firmware is being updated13:46
Gordon`I just hard-reseted my Jolla, and while reinstalling apps, I get “void Package::InstallTransactionPkgKit::giveUpOrRetry(const QString&) "could not find package sailfish-maps"” in my logs, and can’t install some apps13:47
chem|stclau: sure but be aware there is always a way how to fuckup a partition13:47
Gordon`do someone know how to fix this?13:47
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clauchem|st: no doubt about it :)13:47
chem|stthat is why they are working so hard on it, I had no corrupted partitions for at least 5 years now and am pretty impressed13:47
clauI'm just saying it can be improved.13:48
VenemoGordon`: have you updated to the latest software version since the hard reset?13:48
chem|stclau: btrfs is young, give it some more years13:48
Gordon`yes, I’m in 1.0.3.813:48
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chem|stclau: and as we are talking, it could also be that the controler is stuck13:49
chem|stso completely unrelated to the actual fs13:49
Gordon`I also get some “Device not registered -- skipping credential update”13:49
chem|stGordon`: your jolla account is not working as expected13:49
chem|stwhat does ssu domain say?13:50
VenemoGordon`: I have no idea, maybe someone from Jolla can help - have you tried asking on together?13:50
Gordon`chem|st: how can I see that?13:50
chem|stdid you enter the account?13:50
chem|sthave you developer mode?13:51
Gordon`yes13:51
Gordon`(for both questions)13:51
chem|stok13:51
chem|ston terminal13:51
chem|stssu domain13:51
chem|stwhat does it tell13:51
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Gordon`“Device domain is currently: sales”13:52
chem|stok13:52
chem|stssu ur13:53
Gordon`no output13:53
chem|stdid you touch activation developer repos in settings?13:53
Gordon`nope13:54
chem|stok,please don't13:54
chem|stpkcon refresh13:54
chem|stoutput?13:55
Gordon`update done without errors13:56
Gordon`trying to install again13:56
chem|stpkcon update13:56
Gordon`done without errors. Then I tried to install the app, and the phone halted…13:58
Gordon`that’s because of those halts that I hard-reseted in first place13:58
Gordon`so, I guess my phone is still unusable…13:58
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Venemolet's hope the march update will fix everything13:59
chem|stif your account is unable to sync with jolla it will get stuck in the request13:59
chem|stehrm unable logging in13:59
Gordon`Venemo: I really hope so14:00
chem|stI had that too, I reset my device like 5 times till everything was working like expected14:00
Gordon`I don’t know if this error is related to the reboot, but I got 3 of that:14:00
Gordon`Store::Server::slotLikesListFinished:900 - Store::Server::slotLikesListFinished14:00
chem|stis it a big deal to factory reset again?14:00
Gordon`Store::Server::slotLikesListFinished:901 - error code: 014:00
Gordon`just before the halt14:00
Gordon`nope14:01
chem|stoh that sounds like harbour is fscked up14:01
Gordon`fsck indeed :/14:01
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Gordon`so, do you think I should hard-reset as soon as I encounter an unwanted halt?14:01
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chem|sttry the soft way, go to settings and reset there, once booting again skip everything14:02
Venemoman, how glad I am that I've never hardreseted and my jolla never had any of these issues14:02
chem|stthe whole starting stuff just skip it14:02
chem|stthen enter the jolla account in settings and see what happens then, reboot, install devel (to have terminal later if need be) and then start upgrading14:04
chem|stbeing in 2.5 do not upgrade to 3.814:05
chem|stdo not install openrepos or anything, leave android support uninstalled14:05
chem|stcheck what you can do from there14:06
Gordon`GRMBL, boot loop, as soon as I soft-reseted…14:06
Gordon`well, the loop stopped itself14:07
chem|stuh14:07
chem|stdoes it boot again or is it stuck in bootlooping?14:07
Gordon`nope, the loop has ended14:08
Gordon`and now it shows me the standard welcome menu14:08
chem|stso it is booted again?14:08
chem|stok skip everything14:08
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chem|stsetup wlan, setup jolla account14:09
chem|styou might want to see if you get a new oauth token on jolla.com14:09
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Gordon`yes14:12
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Gordon`after the setup of my account, rebooted, the OH was recognized, but the ambience installation failed14:15
chem|stI think there is something wrong with your account, not your phone14:16
Gordon`I’ll still try to upgrade the system14:17
chem|stGordon`: have you setup a nickname for your account for together?14:19
chem|stpeople reported that using their email for the account on the device did cause this kind of behaviour14:20
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chem|stusing the nickname did work for them14:20
chem|sthttps://together.jolla.com/question/2606/cannot-install-apps-from-harbour/?answer=12337#post-id-1233714:21
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Gordon`oh, well14:22
Gordon`I’m downloading the 1.0.12.5, I will thange my settings after14:23
chem|stok, if that does not help I am out of info, it happened to me once in Dec and never afterwards so either wait for some jolla guys or contact care, maybe your account needs to be reset on their end14:24
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Gordon`chem|st: the nickname for my account on together is “gordon”, but how do I set that on the device?14:43
Gordon`logging in with that username doesn’t work14:43
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Gordon`oh, that was the wrong login >_<15:02
Gordon`but as I entered the good, the device restarded. Again.15:02
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chem|stGordon`: did it just restart? or bootlooping again15:16
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Gordon`a simple restart15:27
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Gordon`and just now, I downloaded 1.0.3.8, started the install, and it just rebooted15:27
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chem|stGordon`: everything working now?15:48
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Gordon`chem|st: yes, for now. I’ll wait for reboots now16:14
Gordon`(and restore my data)16:14
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Triztsailfish 1.0.12.5 out already?17:30
Stskeeps.. 12?17:31
Trizt<Gordon`> I’m downloading the 1.0.12.5, I will thange my settings after17:32
Triztdon't ask me17:33
locusfprolly a typo17:33
Triztmaybe he ment 1.0.2.5 then17:34
locusfyeah17:34
Triztjust been hoping to see something new17:34
* ggabriel waiting for sailfish 3.1.4.517:35
Stskeepswild predictions on sailfish 2.0 welcome17:37
TriztWhats todays marketshare for sailfishos compared to the other mobile phone operating systems?17:38
ggabriel100%17:38
ggabrielcoz the others can hardly be called operating systems ;-)17:38
ggabrielwell, maybe the bb one17:39
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Triztyou mean the unix one?17:40
ggabrielqnx17:40
ggabrielStskeeps: depends how much jolla grows and/or how much jolla can offload to the community/other companies :)17:42
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Stskeepsggabriel: hehe17:43
Stskeeps-i'm- not even sure how sailfish 2.0 would look17:43
ggabrieli'm only thinking that most folks will want more features17:43
ggabrielbut granted that the UX side of sailfish has a lot to offer and there is a lot more room17:43
ggabrieli'd expect at least that sailfish 2.0 would provide a seamless experience for phones and tablets17:44
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Stskeepsi don't have any say in this, but i wouldn't be totally against making 2.0 == put dynamite under the native app story and look at it afresh again17:44
ggabrielwell, depends on the timeline IMO17:45
ggabrieli've put dyanmite under the native apps a long time ago already17:45
ggabrielbut there are some basic things that you need native still (browser, maps, sports tracker) but not most applications17:45
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Stskeepswell not saying not having a native story17:47
ggabrielofc not17:47
ggabrieli know what you mean17:47
ggabrielafter seeing some things in the store17:47
ggabriellike "birthday calculator"17:47
ggabriellol17:47
wickwireStskeeps: sorry, just landed - what's the native app story...?17:49
M4rtinKyeah, the current store client is not really good17:49
M4rtinKand the package management logic is IMHO rather horrendous (see all those false/broken app & system upgrades)17:50
M4rtinKso what about just forking the Warehouse code ? :) seems to be much more reliable & has really nice UI17:50
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skvarkhttps://vimeo.com/8859021920:04
mornfallso, the update. .. when?20:04
tbrduring the next couple of days, presumably20:05
mornfallpretty annoyed to reboot 2 or 3 times a day20:05
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* tbr wonders what he did differently as it's not happening on either of his devices20:06
mornfallany confirmation which bugs are known to be fixed?20:07
M4rtinK2well there is the mar14 tag on together20:07
M4rtinK2so either March 1420:07
M4rtinK2OR, as hinted by pycage on TMO March(20)14 -> so sometime in March ? :)20:07
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mornfallhmm, here any movement is likd to provoke network instability and gestures will get stuck soon after20:08
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mornfallI suspect that it's networking that is pretty much fscked up since 1.0.3 ... walking away from wifi without turning it off first is especially disastrous20:15
Eyeajolla Hola joh20:15
mornfall(also, 3G happily connects in roaming now, even though forbidden... and delivery notices get disabled on every reboot, even though dunno if that's part of networking or something else)20:16
flanagI'm starting to think that the tohd service is causing some of the sudden shutdowns/reboots because before the 1.0.3.8 update I had never seen one. After the update I unmasked the service (because the nfc bug was fixed) and now I'm getting these shutdowns/reboots. And the fact that lifting a corner of the other half can end the reboot loop would also suggest that this is somehow connected to the nfc/tohd service.20:17
mornfallso yeah, if it's going to be more than couple days, it's reflashing time20:17
claumornfall, I don't really have the problem with the wifi20:17
clauit tries to reconnect, and the phone becomes laggy for a short while20:18
flanagmornfall: what do you think of my view on the problem? have you masked the service?20:18
claubut it recovers eventually20:18
mornfallflanag: I have unmasked tohd20:18
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clauonly once did it go crazy, when 3G was available but blocked by provider20:18
mornfallflanag: but I don't get a sudden reboot most of the time20:18
clautook me a while to disable the damn thing20:18
mornfalljust gestures stop working so I have to reboot manually20:19
clauTOHD should be optional IMO20:19
flanagok20:19
mornfallwell, green flashing is fairly common, "all apps crash" isn't all that rare either20:19
clausome people will simply (almost) never need it20:19
clauand no matter how optimized it is, it will still suck battery20:19
flanagyeah, I masked the service again so I can see if it has any effect on the reboots20:20
M4rtinK2well, if it works as it should, it power consumption should not be an issue at all20:21
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M4rtinK2there is a mechanical switch20:21
flanagmechanical?20:21
clauI had no idea20:21
M4rtinK2which is pressed once you mount a new TOH20:21
M4rtinK2yep20:21
clauwill it also unmount the sd card?20:21
clauwhen you take the toh off20:21
flanagI thought it was only an NFC tag20:21
M4rtinK2so it should start scanning only once the switch is pressed, for a short time20:21
clauflanag, me too20:21
M4rtinK2clau: nope, it won't20:22
clauwould be a nice feature, though20:22
mornfallclau: or a horrible feature :)20:22
M4rtinK2clau: yeah, could be a nice option for some20:22
M4rtinK2or an app idea - might not do it outright but show a dialog20:23
mornfallespecially if it means killing apps and/or losing data :-)20:23
flanagthe connectivity is a large problem atm I think, the phone also switches to 2G too easily20:23
claumornfall, definitely.20:23
clauon the other hand, if you play with the sd card often, this might avoid corrupting it.20:23
M4rtinK2yeah, also have those connectivity issues20:23
M4rtinK2damn annoying :)20:23
clauso, let it be optional :)20:23
M4rtinK2there are times when you just want to swap the TOH, not change the SD :)20:24
clauflanag, I have the 2g issue too, but I live in an area with low signal, so I had it with n9 too :\20:24
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clauhey, M4rtinK, there are two of you here. :)20:25
flanagclau: the solution (for me at least) would be a switch to force 3G (like in many other phones), the only option now is 2G or _prefer_ 3G20:25
mornfallwell, connectivity... the fact that connectivity problems first cause me to click on random stuff for a while instead of minimising apps (unintentionally calling people FTW) and then reboot the phone is a much bigger problem20:25
mornfallthis also happens intermittently when changing networks, eg., which makes it really hard to predict whether a swipe is going to work or do a tap in the middle of the screen instead20:26
flanagI have never seen that problem before20:27
mornfallI am almost convinced this is related to some focus-stealing issue with the notification popups...20:27
mornfall"network problem" is a good predictor of gestures failing20:28
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mornfallrestarting network sometimes fixes the gestures, but not always20:28
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tevedo you have enough free space (>1.5GB) ? https://together.jolla.com/question/30822/root-and-home-disks-full-and-causing-various-problems/20:31
mornfall<6G used20:32
clauflanag, I would like to have that option too20:32
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clauif you have a link to a TJC post about it, I will vote on it (unless I already did :\ )20:32
flanagI haven't posted anything on it but I think I saw a post about it at some point20:32
flanagI'll have a look and post a link if I find it20:33
mornfallha, gesture worked... once20:33
mornfallusing the power button to switch apps kinda sucks :P20:33
flanagclau: here you go https://together.jolla.com/question/5894/control-2g3g-individually/20:34
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mornfallrootfs                 14G  4.7G  8.7G  36% /20:34
mornfallmem 10M free, 150M buffers&cache20:35
mornfallswap 340M free20:35
clauflanag, yep, I've already voted on it20:36
flanagat least stskeeps has updated something on the post (a tag maybe) so at least they are aware of it20:37
Stskeepso20:37
Stskeepsi've done what..20:37
Stskeeps:P20:37
clauthere's a way to see the history20:37
flanagI guessed you would come here :p20:37
clautoo lazy to check, though D:20:37
mornfallis a bugtracker planned? together is less than useful, and there's basically no feedback20:38
flanagStskeeps, promise me that you'll include that *only* 3G option20:38
flanag:D20:38
clauStskeeps, was wondering, would it be possible to make a new btrfs snapshot, and use it later for recovery?20:38
Stskeepsclau: there's a shell prompt at your disposal in recovery mode20:38
clauluckily I never had to check that so far :)20:39
mornfallclau: booting from a btrfs snapshot may be somewhere between hard and impossible20:40
claubut I'm considering doing a reset before next update, and after I have the latest (without installing any other app), just make a new snapshot.20:40
clauI have absolutely no experience with btrfs, that's why I'm asking20:40
mornfallwell, it may not be *that* hard, but it's something that may fail in new and interesting ways20:41
mornfallanother consideration to make is that since / and /home are the same fs, after you make a snapshot, deleting files no longer frees up space20:43
Eyeahow do you get a sd card to show up in sailfish on Jolla20:44
Eyea?20:44
Eyeaany one20:44
Eyea?20:44
Yanieldevel-su mount ....20:45
mornfallYaniel: seriously? (I didn't get an sd card yet :-P)20:45
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Yanielunless it is formatted as fat in which case it should show up automatically20:47
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claumornfall, deleting files that were caught in the snapshot, yes. deleting files that were created after the snapshot, no.20:49
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clauI would do it strictly to have a newer recovery point.20:50
mornfallclau: well, yes, but that can be even more frustrating, as users won't necessarily know which files are stuck in snapshots20:50
clauto avoid going through so many updates if I need to clean the system20:50
clauI only care about one user in this problem: me :)20:51
clauI'm not asking for a new feature, was just wondering if it's doable right now20:51
M4rtinK_oh so that mount.sh script has not yet been fixed ?20:51
Eyeait there an easy way to install google play store?20:52
chem|stEyea: mount it?20:52
Eyealink just run the apk20:52
Eyealike as in just run an apk20:52
chem|stEyea: you need to copy some stuff and run an apk...20:53
chem|stafaik20:53
Eyeai had a look online there is some info20:53
chem|stit is the internet, there is always some info20:53
claufreetype2 security issue --> https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?4169720:54
mornfallclau: reverting a snapshot using the new system should work, as long as you can sort out the kernels... it won't help if an update screws up booting20:54
claumakes sense20:54
Eyeawhere do you copy thoses files to20:54
Eyeait say to jolla20:54
Eyeadoes that mean root20:54
Eyeaor somewhere els20:55
clauEyea, I think there's a "howto" post on together.jolla.com about it20:55
claudo a search there20:55
chem|stto jolla means user space jolla20:55
chem|sthttps://together.jolla.com/question/30926/howto-install-google-play/20:55
chem|stman people cannot even type google into a search box... first hit on tjc when you enter google :D20:55
M4rtinK_clau: ouch20:56
M4rtinK_better than libpng, but still nasty :)20:56
chem|stEyea: copy the three files needed to jolla via any way you like, just make sure they end up in /opt/alien/system/app in the end20:57
claucurrently we have 2.4.9 on jolla, I think20:57
clauthere was another security issue not long ago, so there are probably at least two by now that affect jolla20:58
Eyeathanks20:58
chem|styw20:58
clauM4rtinK_, CVE-2012-5668, CVE-2012-5669, CVE-2012-567020:59
M4rtinK_+gnutls20:59
clauthese were fixed in 2.4.11, if I understand correctly20:59
clauthere was at least one in openssl21:00
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clauhaven't checked after the latest update though21:00
clauI hope we will see soon security hotfixes.21:01
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flanagwell, they said that the fixes would come as soon as possible21:02
clauyeah, a very helpful statement :)21:03
mornfallflanag: there doesn't seem to be any other update channel other than a system upgrade yet21:03
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flanagthat's true21:03
mornfallso hotfixes are a pipe dream21:04
clauhopefully things will settle and jolla will do it21:04
mornfallbut that's the case with security in general :)21:04
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clauwell, on freebsd I have two nice tools, one dealing with the OS, one with the installed packages21:04
clauand they are keeping a nice db with all vulnerabilities21:05
mornfallclau: many distros have tools like that21:05
clauand I can check at any point if there's one vulnerable package installed21:05
clauplus, update, of course21:05
mornfallI don't think mer has one though.21:06
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tevezypper has support for patch and update21:06
Aardmornfall: if you do ssu lr on the device you should see an enabled 'hotfixes' repo21:06
mornfallteve: I mean a database of security vulnerabilities in particular package (versions)21:07
clauwell, small system udpated could be provided as hotfixes21:07
clauthere's no need for extra software to make it work21:07
mornfallclau: how would it work? something needs to install the packages21:07
clauand while I would appreciate a db and a tool to query it, I don't find it really necessary, as long as updates are pushed21:07
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Turskiclau: trough system upgrade?21:08
Turskimornfall^21:08
clauyes21:08
clauwhy not?21:08
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clauthe user can see it, accept, do it or not.21:08
Turskimornfall: you know, sailfish already has a system upgrade tool ;)21:08
clau:D21:08
mornfallTurski: but it doesn't do that21:09
clauhmm, I guess the freebsd db could be used, since most packages from sailfish are likely present on fbsd too21:09
Turskimornfall: that's exactly what it does21:09
claumornfall, think about how you got the last update21:09
mornfallTurski: no, the upgrade tool uses out-of-band metadata to change the repo URLs and then runs a one-off update21:10
clauyou were notified21:10
clauyou could a message21:10
clauand you had a choice to go on, or postpone21:10
clau1.0.3.821:10
mornfallyou need a different mechanism to use the hotfixes21:10
Turskimornfall: ?21:10
Aardmornfall: no21:10
claunow, a 1.0.3.9 could be release as a hotfix21:10
Turskimornfall: just bump the version21:10
claureleased*21:10
mornfallAard: hmm?21:10
clauthere's absolutely nothing special about security fixes21:10
clauit's just an update21:10
mornfall - hotfixes    ... https://releases.jolla.com/releases/1.0.3.8/hotfixes/armv7hl/21:10
mornfallit says 1.0.3.8 in the URL21:11
Aardyes. hotfixes are release-specific21:11
mornfallso it needs a different way to upgrade other than bumping the release number21:11
clauso, no need to increase version number then?21:11
Aardno. :)21:11
Turskimornfall: but the mechanism is just the same, it downloads packages with higher version number than installed ones and installs them21:11
mornfallAard: but how does the actual upgrade work? a cronjob?21:11
Turskimornfall: os upgrade doesn't need to touch every single package21:12
mornfallI haven't seen a single notification, so either there are no hotfixes ever, or it updates silently...21:12
Aardon backend side, a hotfix is a filled hotfixes-repository, which contains a version package (and therefore upgrades version), with the rest of the base-version linked to the hotfix-release as well21:12
clauthere was one in december, right?21:12
Aardthat way we can easily track hotfix installation status21:12
Sail0runtil now there are no upgrades which are not releases ?21:13
Sail0rbecause i have never noticed that a single packet was upgraded in background21:13
AardSail0r: we had iirc 2 hotfixes. to you as user there's no difference (apart from "a lot less packages downloaded")21:14
mornfallSail0r: apparently, there was one in december (I didn't get a device until after the hotfix I presume)21:14
mornfallI get bogus upgrade notifications though.21:14
Aardwe can't just silently install packages -> we always need to go through the 'there's an update, do you want to install it'21:14
Sail0rAard: do these hotfixes also force a reboot?21:14
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Aardyes21:15
Aardit's exactly the same ui, you'll just notice that the banner graphics remains same, and only the last digit of the version number will increment21:15
FireFlyTo clarify, it's just like a regular update from the user-side, except smaller?21:15
Sail0rok21:15
FireFlyRight21:15
AardFireFly: yes, all the magic happens in the backend21:16
FireFlyNeat21:16
Sail0rIt's like Fedora20 ^^ I do not understand why it always wants to reboot for minor updates *g*21:16
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clauso, we're looking forward for the next hotfix then :D21:16
Sail0rok, reboot because it is the safest way.21:17
mornfallSail0r: I already reboot more often than daily, what's another reboot every few months for a hotfix :P21:17
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Sail0rI rebooted three times since I have a Jolla21:17
Sail0r2 times where a crash21:17
Sail0r^^21:17
mornfallI only reboot when I can't recover the system in any other way. :P21:17
AardSail0r: because some packages will not work easily without restart (for example, updating the compositor -> if we restart that we'll kill everything). right now we don't have packages marked as 'safe' or 'unsafe' for install without reboot -> until we have that offline install with reboot is safest21:17
Sail0rAard: thx  :)21:18
Sail0rAard: but you work on updates without reboot?21:19
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bjornWith with safe/unsafe flag, you'd still need a mechanism to restart already running stuff in case of security updates. Not exactly trivial I think.21:19
clauit's definitely simpler to just reboot21:19
bjornEven with*21:19
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Sail0ryep reboot is simpler21:19
Aardas for the gnutls/openssl issues: updated gnutls is part of the upcoming update, and we're currently checking if we can/should push it as hotfix before publishing the update. for openssl we have the fix, and are currently testing. we won't delay release of the next update because of that, so if all goes well it might be integrated, if not I'd expect that we'll push a hotfix shortly afterwards21:20
mornfallAard: I still don't quite understand what the hotfixes repo does, btw. If the patchlevel of the OS version is bumped on a hotfix, doesn't it change all the URLs anyway?21:20
clauand I don't really see it as a problem, as long as I am not forced to do it when the phone wants it.21:20
Aardmornfall: it does change the urls, it's mostly to make things on the backend easier21:20
clauAard, good to know, thanks for the information.21:20
Aardbjorn: not trivial, but doable21:21
mornfallAard: I see... and about that release, is there a tentative schedule? (if you already know it's not going to happen for say 10 days, it might be a good idea to reflash)21:21
Sail0rnext week all news say21:21
flanagyep21:21
AardSail0r: yes, it's being worked on, but very early in concepting phase, so will take quite some time to arrive21:21
Sail0rAard: cool :)21:22
Aardmornfall: can't give a schedule yet, but I sure hope it won't take 10 more days ;) we're currently taking care of the last handful of issues21:22
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mornfallAard: so with the beta label gone, is the fixed vs. created bugs going to be better than the last time? ;P21:23
mornfall+ratio21:24
Sail0rI say it's friday ^^21:24
Aardmornfall: it was not that bad last time :p21:24
mornfallSail0r: afternoon :-P21:24
Sail0rbecause march 14 can mean march the 14th or march 2014 maybe it's a double meaning march 14 201421:24
Sail0rxD21:24
bjornPi day!21:27
bencoh:]21:27
Sail0rand friday is always a good day to push changes into the wild *g*21:28
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pp_start the weekend with a brick, then quickly drown your sorrows :-)22:07
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AL13Nhttps://together.jolla.com/question/32050/have-gdisk-available-in-mer-tools-repository/22:26
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AL13N(also some progress on https://together.jolla.com/question/26605/howto-install-a-chroot-for-building-apps/ )22:26
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