#jollamobile log for Friday, 2015-03-13

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Ponchalehi people, What' s  up06:47
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chem|stI keep wondering how many people on tjc have OCD or is this now like every kid has ADHD?09:42
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MooCowFarkMilkchem|st, isnt ADhd the condition invented to sell riddlin? Much like IBS ?09:46
jaacoppiInformation society changes human behaviour and the impulses our brains receive. ADHD was useful in pre-modern hunter-gatherer societies. Not so useful in industrial or our current multitasking society09:55
MooCowFarkMilkjaacoppi, are you a bot09:55
jaacoppiYes. See my source code at http://spod.cx/pcc09:55
MooCowFarkMilk!stskeeps whois jaacoppi09:55
merbotMooCowFarkMilk: Error: "stskeeps" is not a valid command.09:55
Nicd-jaacoppi: internal server error09:56
MooCowFarkMilkNicd-, thats probably the source he meant09:56
the_mgtchem|st: what are you referring to?09:57
chem|stthe_mgt: people who want to see EVERYTHING ALWAYS... Jolla better come up with a live wallpaper scrolling journal in the BG...09:59
the_mgtport this fugly thing from linux desktops, that runs transparent and vomits numbers10:01
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Stskeepsi demand matrix live wallpaper10:01
the_mgtI always actively suppress the name, so I can't remember it10:02
Yanielconky?10:02
MooCowFarkMilkdoes conky run on jolla?10:03
MooCowFarkMilkconky's awesome10:03
Yanielno, it is an X11 app10:03
Yanielsailfish uses wayland10:03
the_mgtyes, conky10:03
MooCowFarkMilkwell wasnt there a wrapper or something for x11 to wayland transisiton10:03
Nicd-xwayland but you have to compile it yourself I think10:04
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MooCowFarkMilkYaniel, "You can run conky with no gui, from a console.10:05
MooCowFarkMilkSo it isn't fully reliant on X. "10:05
MooCowFarkMilkhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225372310:05
chem|stStskeeps: that is actually something that should at least ship with a black/green TOH10:06
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chem|stStskeeps: there was no tjc about it... or is the search broken?10:12
chem|sthttps://together.jolla.com/question/8652610:12
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MooCowFarkMilkso does jolla contribute back to the mer project10:24
Nicd-yes, to nemo mobile (which mer is being merged into)10:25
fluxthe question in my mind is rather: are there other developers than Jolla doing Mer/Nemo Mobile?-o10:26
MooCowFarkMilkflux, do you play mmorpgs10:27
fluxno.10:28
fluxwell, I've had BatMud account maybe 15+ years ago.10:28
Temeanybody else annoyed by the clock application failing to give any indication that a timer/alarm rang if you were on call while it should have rang?10:29
Temeeven after ending the call it doesn't tell you that a timer hit10:29
Teme(and now i'm drinking bitter tea)10:29
the_mgtTeme: the whole clock/timer stuff seems to run its own notification void10:30
the_mgtmy pebble does ot fetch a single alarm from clocks/countdowns/timers10:31
the_mgtthat is really rather bizare10:31
Temehmm10:31
Tememaybe i should put this on TJC, since other than that the app is just amazing10:31
fluxthe_mgt, that would be a fine feature for pebbled, yes10:31
Temeso streamlined, yet powerful10:31
fluxbut I wonder how easy it is to interact with the clock app10:32
the_mgtI already reported that as an issue on the pebble github page10:32
the_mgtand it is reported on tjc, too, iirc10:32
the_mgtflux: I do not want to set a jolla alarm from my pebble, I just want to receive a notification when jolla clock app trigers an alarm10:33
the_mgtafaik, the pebble has its own alarm timer10:33
FIQam I missing something, or is there no way to get a sane timestamp in the call log?10:33
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MooCowFarkMilkis mir compatible with wayland10:48
Nicd-no10:48
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MooCowFarkMilkso in the near future we'll have mir wayland and X10:52
MooCowFarkMilklol10:52
Nicd-unfortunately yes10:52
Nicd-thank canonical for that10:52
MooCowFarkMilkwhat made them decide to dev their own display server10:54
MooCowFarkMilk"Other parts of the infrastructure used by Mir originate from Android. "10:55
MooCowFarkMilkXD10:55
Nicd-NIH syndrome is my guess10:55
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zuttoX does need some rework10:56
zuttoit has quite silly memory leaks that are not fun if you dont have habit of shutting down your X occasionally10:56
cityLightsis there a qr reader for jolla?10:56
Nicd-they did have some problems with how wayland did stuff ages ago, but they didn't want to contribute but instead duplicate efforts to make their own thing (and their problems with wayland have since been fixed but they're too long down the road to turn around)10:56
Nicd-that's my understanding10:56
Nicd-cityLights: CodeReader in the store10:56
cityLightsthanks10:57
MooCowFarkMilkNIH?10:57
MooCowFarkMilknot in house?10:57
Nicd-not invented here10:58
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* VDVsx waits for ubuntu fork of linux kernel, since they already have own display server, own init even own cvs that seems no one else use :P10:59
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MooCowFarkMilkubuntu fork of linux kernel? itd better have been written in Golang11:01
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Tegurust11:02
zuttoNicd-: but that would mean detaching from debian :P11:02
zuttoand that would mean more werk11:02
Nicd-zutto: are you talking to VDVsx?11:02
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MooCowFarkMilkwhat made millions of people adapt ubuntu in the first place11:02
zuttoyeah11:02
Nicd-MooCowFarkMilk: ease of use11:02
zuttobut ubuntu is not easier to use than other distros :l11:03
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Nicd-zutto: it was back then11:03
zuttoit has never been11:03
MooCowFarkMilkNicd-, i thought it was also low system requirements11:03
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Teguaugh, well, other distros can also have low system requirements? and nowadays I guess that is more of the case?11:04
zuttoeither way, its quite common for distros to have their own fork of lunix kernel11:04
MooCowFarkMilkso mir is GPLv311:04
Nicd-pretty much two things. it's easy and it just works, or at least works more likely than other distros11:04
MooCowFarkMilkinteresting11:04
joonahoithey also have a good balance of recent enough vs. stable packages in the repository11:04
zuttothey make their own patches that they apply to every version11:04
joonahoifor a common man11:04
MooCowFarkMilkso the licensing of Mir is GPLv3 while X & wayland is MIT11:05
MooCowFarkMilkmaybe they just wanna be RMS friendly?11:05
Nicd-they're not *that* stupid11:06
MooCowFarkMilkwell how do you explain GPL3?11:06
MooCowFarkMilk"but contributors are required to sign an agreement that "grants Canonical the right to relicense your contribution under their choice of license"11:07
jaacoppiCanonical has huge financial resources, that's what made ubuntu popular in the first place11:07
MooCowFarkMilklol11:07
MooCowFarkMilkcan they do that11:07
tbrit puts them in control of things. whoever wants to can use it under GPLv3, but if you want to do something commercial and GPLv3 would not fit your bill you can go and pay canonical to license it otherwise.11:08
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tbrI'd be interested to hear if the builds on the commercial phones are really labelled gplv311:09
zuttojaacoppi: so does many other distros11:09
zuttoits not about the money11:09
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MooCowFarkMilktbr, for what i hear on the BQ E4.5 at least "all bits canonical developed on its own are GPLv3 in that"11:15
MooCowFarkMilkso if someone fixed a bug in mir and submitted it; they could license it under a proprietary license?11:16
MooCowFarkMilkbasically if you sign an NDA that gives them that freedom does that overwrite GPL?11:17
Nicd-it's not an NDA though11:20
Nicd-but yes, you give them the right to relicense that code11:21
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MooCowFarkMilkso would it be possible to fork it and maintain a GPL only version11:22
Nicd-of course11:22
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MooCowFarkMilkhttp://www.webupd8.org/2015/02/ubuntu-phone-review-bq-aquaris-e45.html11:36
MooCowFarkMilkhow can a quad-core 1.3 g a7 be considered "average at best"?11:36
MooCowFarkMilkfeels like we're going back to the early 2000s MHz wars11:39
ShawnMcCooli want more battery life and better features for my jolla phone11:41
ShawnMcCooli don't want more speed11:41
ShawnMcCoolthe os handles 'hangups' like loading applications just fine11:41
ShawnMcCooli want a swipe keyboard, i want the keyboard to work better in android apps11:42
ShawnMcCoolthose features alone would make a world of difference11:42
Tegubatterytoh11:42
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MooCowFarkMilkdoes K9 mail work on jolla11:48
falfagood question11:51
falfak9 is nice11:51
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ShadowJKMooCowFarkMilk; A7 is the current arm low end in IPC in the context of phones and tablets12:26
Stskeepshttps://blog.jolla.com/hacknplay-20150313/12:27
jaacoppiwhat exactly is this Ubuntu "scope"? Instead of applications that deal with input & output they have "scopes" that deal with input & output?12:32
VDVsxjaacoppi, kinda of webapps or views that fetch content from a web api12:34
VDVsxcontent aggregates, one page shows stuff from mutiple sources (as I understand the idea)12:34
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MooCowFarkMilkStskeeps, dilute i say!12:52
* Stskeeps stares?12:53
* MooCowFarkMilk shrugs12:53
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popeyNote: Not banned, kicked.12:59
*** banned is now known as LameOiSherEOh12:59
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kjetilhoIllusionL0v3R, MooCowFarkMilk, uuhimhere, LameOiSherEOh: can you please stop changing your nick around all the time?13:02
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* Mirv notes his irssi world was saved by ignoring joins, parts, nicks and quits13:14
Mirvidling has never been more peaceful13:14
LameOiSherEOhkjetilho, Mirv13:15
Temeyeah.. it's bliss <313:15
LameOiSherEOhkjetilho, Teme13:15
Teme?13:16
kjetilhoMirv: that's fine, but it's confusing when the same person appears as wildly different nicks from one day to the next13:16
Temewhy is mr. chameleon calling my name :P13:17
kjetilho(that list of nicks were some of the one's he/she has been using the last three days)13:17
Mirvkjetilho: sure, maybe ignore rule for ignoring constant nick changers would be useful too :)13:17
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kjetilhoanyhow.  no aggression intended, just a plea :-)  we're all Jolla users in here!13:18
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LameOiSherEOhkjetilho, how does my nick swapping affect you oranyone? if it does /ignore or /kick13:21
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LameOiSherEOhkjetilho, its like smoking in public ; put up a sign that prohibits it or find another bench13:21
Stskeepsit's bad irc manners, so quit it.13:22
kjetilhoLameOiSherEOh: it's harder to relate to you as a person and continue the discussion from one day to the next when you put on a new disguise and appear as a different person every day13:22
LameOiSherEOhif the bot is telling me to do so i guess thats proof in the pudding13:22
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LameOiSherEOhsorry13:23
kjetilhowelcome back :)13:23
kjetilhoas I said, it was just a request.  you are free to do as you like.13:24
LameOiSherEOhkjetilho, there is no disguise i always revolve around the same nick and i dont really want anybody relating to me other than what i have to say13:24
LameOiSherEOhmessage not the messanger13:24
LameOiSherEOhthats all i wanted to say13:24
LameOiSherEOhkthnxbai13:24
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Nicd-oh well13:25
Teemui didn't quite catch what was the same nick13:26
Teemuto me it was just different nicks13:26
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anandrkrisHi folks - One query on Mail app - when i forward an email with attachment it asks me if I want to download the file14:07
anandrkrisi suppose even if i discard the message attachment would still be sent?14:07
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VDVsxanandrkris, only the ones already on device14:20
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anandrkrisSorry, not clear...You mean the file need to be there on the device to be forwarded?14:22
anandrkrisSent items creates a duplicate as well :(14:23
VDVsxanandrkris, yes, if attachment of the FWD email is not downloaded yet from the server, it won't be included, that's why it offers that option14:24
anandrkrisOh! ok. Apologies, am a n00b here, is it how all mail clients work?14:26
VDVsxanandrkris, depends there's a IMAP extension called Smart Forward, if the server supports that(not many do), it will do all the work in server side, no need to download anything14:26
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VDVsxbut that is not supported yet by email app, MW supports it14:27
anandrkrisokies..thanks for the details14:27
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anandrkrisMay i request you to consider giving configuration option for not downloading attachments for sent items?14:28
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anandrkrisAm on a job hunting spree - Now am having having multiple copies of my resume! :)14:30
kjetilhoVDVsx: are you refering to BURL or something proprietary?14:32
VDVsxkjetilho, for imap BURL, but Exchange also has similar14:33
VDVsxanandrkris, that's a bug :)14:33
anandrkrisha ha...found TJC link https://together.jolla.com/question/52583/bug-email-attachment-from-sent-emails-are-automatically-downloaded/14:34
VDVsxanandrkris, yes that one14:35
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anandrkriswhile deleting those duplicate documents hit another bug - https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-office/issues/1014:38
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till-is there a way to install different ssh ciphers on sailfish? just now I got a "no matching cipher found" message while trying to connect via ssh15:59
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till-nevermind, was a client mistake16:01
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coderusi need option in Jolla Store "Translate this comment" :D17:45
coderusi don't understand comments in Finland language :D17:45
r0kk3rztjc translator is sometimes needed too17:45
Stskeepscoderus: assume they all talk about how great it is17:45
Stskeeps:P17:45
r0kk3rzits written in english, well what looks something like english17:45
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Hartzicoderus: finnish*17:52
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coderusI can't even copy it and paste to any translator :(17:57
VDVsxcoderus, even if that feature was there would suck for Finnish, like any translator out there :D18:01
HartziIt's interesting that why some people doesn't write in english when they post comments on store18:02
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Hartzicoderus: there's only one non-english comment in battery overlay app comments and that's swedish18:08
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HtheBguys19:11
HtheBdoes opening a txt file work within jolla? because I can't get it to open19:11
HtheBwith the documents app19:11
MikaelaI used some pad app from store and it worked as long as the filename had .txt in the end19:12
MikaelaTinyEdit, just checked19:12
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HtheBMikaela: yeah i just saw it in google, but does that forward the .txt files when you open it from attachments (email)?19:14
Mikaelano idea, I have just opened text files manually19:14
r0kk3rztxt file, nano from terminal19:14
HtheBxdg-mime default tinyedit.desktop "text/plain"19:15
HtheBthat should do the job right?19:15
Mikaelawhat I have used it for is to copy long password to txt file using ssh and then copy-pasting the txt file to password box19:15
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HtheBr0kk3rz: I need it for end users ;)19:20
HtheBnot for myself19:20
r0kk3rzend users19:20
Teemus/nano/vi/19:20
r0kk3rzso nano from terminal19:20
Teemus/nano/vi/19:20
r0kk3rzor vi if you prefer19:20
Teemuyes19:20
Teemu:)19:20
r0kk3rzor whatever really19:20
HtheBr0kk3rz: i meant n00bs :)19:20
Teemuend users and jolla phone doesn't sound like a good mix19:21
r0kk3rzits a frickin text file19:21
r0kk3rzbut yes, there should probably be a GUI method of opening a text file19:21
HtheBr0kk3rz: yes, and that should be plainly supported out of the box without terminal!19:21
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Teguvi is fine enough with fingerterm19:22
r0kk3rzim sure you could write one in QML in an afternoon19:22
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* Mikaela still hasn't learned to like fingerterm and she is just using ssh19:22
Teguthere is a simple text editor in the store19:22
HtheBno one gets it.. right?19:24
HtheBIt's a simple txt file, why would anyone need to download and install shit in the first place?19:24
HtheB:/19:24
HtheBwhy need terminal for something that simple?19:24
HtheBI dont see why people always think on their own level19:24
TeguHtheB: you're talking about a platform that doesn't have acalendar out of box19:24
HtheBnot everybody has ever worked with terminals19:25
HtheBTegu: what do you mean?19:25
HtheByou mean that you have to download it at the first time? no problem19:26
TeguHtheB: yup, that's what i meant19:26
r0kk3rzmaybe thats a project for you HtheB, add in txt file support to jolla-documents19:26
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HtheBbut when you download 'documents', the simplest txt file should be supported imo19:26
HtheBr0kk3rz: :D19:26
r0kk3rzthe problem is19:27
HtheBdont tell me license?....19:27
r0kk3rzthat jolla-documents works by tracker19:27
HtheBoh19:27
r0kk3rzand if you show all text files as indexed by tracker19:27
r0kk3rzthats going to be a lot19:27
Teguand document doesn't have editing19:28
HtheBnot if you only take /home/nemo/Documents/*19:28
HtheBTegu: im not worrying about editing19:28
HtheBediting is a step forward19:28
r0kk3rzfor editing you can use terminal :P19:28
HtheBjust simple viewing a txt file in "documents' is already a good step forward :p19:28
HtheBr0kk3rz: rofl19:28
r0kk3rzbut considering you need to enable developer mode to get terminal19:29
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pdanekWhen do you think is the closest possible event / date where Jolla could announce Jolla 2?20:53
Stskeepsnot tomorrow.20:55
HtheBStskeeps: today?20:57
Stskeepsdefinately not today.20:57
HtheByesterday?...20:57
Stskeepsdidn't happen20:57
HtheBkill me20:57
ortylp1st April?20:57
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ortylpnobody would believe anyway :D20:58
YanielI'll guess SIGGRAPH20:58
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Yanielnot like they'd make an appearance there20:59
lazy_bumJolla 2? I just got the first one. ;)21:01
Yanielyeah but you are a lazy bum and we all know it21:02
Yaniel;)21:02
svuorelapdanek: qt contributor summit is likely a place for such announcements21:03
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ortylpis anybody attending CLT next week?21:13
StskeepsCLT?21:13
ortylpStskeeps: Chemnitzer Linux Tage21:14
Stskeepshmm no21:14
Stskeeps:P21:14
Aardjolla2 will take a while, we need to finish the transition from QML to EFL21:15
r0kk3rzEFL is the future21:15
ortylpStskeeps: why? it is only 6 hour drive, and on weekend :P21:15
StskeepsAard: twitch21:15
StskeepsAard: did you read http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/enlightened/8795 ?21:16
AardStskeeps: yes. the sad thing is, most of the stuff in there I already knew21:16
r0kk3rzStskeeps: im still reading it21:16
r0kk3rzit just keeps on going21:16
AardStskeeps: additionally, it seems the ui-library I designed as a 12 year old on object oriented pascal is saner than EFL :p21:17
Stskeeps"http://what.thedailywtf.com is now being blocked on the corporate firewall at Samsung."21:18
r0kk3rzit seems like a lesson why you dont write a ui-library in c21:19
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Stskeepsthis sounds a bit like their it's your folt moment21:19
ortylpwell... you can argue, that you can compile C++ to C (as it was done in the first years of C++)... so writing anything in C is possible :D21:21
r0kk3rzpossible, sure21:21
r0kk3rzmadness, definitely21:21
ortylpform time to time I have to maintain 20+ year old C software written originally for DSP... with variable names as "reg0", "reg1", "reg2",...21:22
Aardortylp: why would they waste that much memory for long variable names?21:24
sharpneliBecause variable names don't consume any memory? :D21:25
ortylpat the beginning I was wondering if the original was in C or they converted assembly to C and done some refactoring....21:25
Aardsharpneli: well, there are some basic manuals out there from early days advising you to a) keep variable names as short as possible b) reuse already existing variables whenever possible instead of declaring new ones. it's a nice habit sad to see dead, even if there might not be much use anymore21:26
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ortylpit was probably in times, where "autocompletion" was an advanced feature in text editor...21:28
sharpneliAard: That must be something truly ancient. Variable names themselves are not on the binary itself n general.21:28
Aardsharpneli: "basic"21:28
sharpneliAh21:28
Aardand yes, ancient variants21:28
sharpneliYeah well basic is an interpreted language basically21:28
Aardon computers with just a few k of memory21:29
ortylpyep, it was the case for basic...21:29
ortylpon C6421:29
sharpneliIn C the only things that are visible are the function names for dynamic linking.21:29
sharpneliAnd for pure static linking you don't have even those.21:29
Aardbut why give up nice traditions?21:29
sharpneliWhy not import a crappy tradition from a crappy language to something else?21:30
sharpneliWhy not prefix every C line with line number symbol for goto usage ;)21:30
sharpneliThat reminded me. Few days ago I saw a function name in a binary that was over 300 characters :D21:31
sharpneliThanks to C++ and retarded templating21:31
ortylpsometimes I see C code written by our (older) colleague, that proves, he was thinking in assembly language at that time...21:31
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