#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2016-03-24

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coderuswhy the hell you want to remount things in aliendalvik05:17
coderusi said you tons of tiles it not working in alien not because of mounting05:17
coderusyou can copy all files without remounting05:17
coderusunder root05:17
coderusbut it doesnt work, xposed hook doesnt work05:17
coderustimes*05:18
coderusnext time i will just ignore05:19
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Kabouik_Hi all. I'm wondering if there are any plans to update the version of Alien Dalvik at some point? The number of Android applications that require >4.3 is growing every day and there are now a number of applications that I cannot use on the Jolla, unfortunately. Is it set in stone or will it be updated?12:32
arnejThat would be very interesting to know. Maybe you can check together.jolla.com if there is already a discussion about that and post a new one if there isn't12:35
arnejKabouik_: ^12:35
Kabouik_https://together.jolla.com/question/107009/android-version-in-sailfish-2/ I've found this arnej, but the answers are confusing: the roadmap says so, but just for the tablet, and not "released" yet"12:35
Kabouik_And actually the roadmap does not say that it is tablet-specific, but apparently it is12:36
ggabrieluhm... roadmap may be a bit out of date12:36
Stskeepsproblem is that it's not trivial to upgrade 4.1.2 based alien dalvik to 4.4 on jolla112:37
Stskeepswithout data loss12:37
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Kabouik_What kind of data loss do you mean? Android apps data? I wouldn't mind, if I could run the applications I'd like after the upgrade12:39
arnejI could live with data loss when it's communicated and I get new Android apps :)12:39
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* ggabriel envisions the rage comments if jolla ever allows for data loss :P12:40
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entilI'm sure whatsapp will resync its chats anyway12:42
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ggabriel"but I have to log in again??? why, jolla, why?"12:43
ggabrieletc etc12:43
entilmost apps are probably cloud-backed anyway12:44
Kabouik_It's just postponing the issue anyway. Apparently, 4.3/4.4 has involved a lot of features that more and more apps will require, so as time passes, we'll have to deal with data loss OR increasing incompatibility. Data loss won't worsen over time, incompatibility will, so I'd rather go for data loss from now on if I'm prepared.12:44
Kabouik_-from now on +as soon as possible, sorry for my English12:45
phlixi_owhat apps do actually do not work because of the version, and not because of for example missing google services etc, are you sure its about the version? because in the end there are tons of old androids out here that dont get an update, those apps would not work there either...12:45
ggabrielI think the general android approach is "buy a new phone"12:45
entilfor only 699e it's a steal!12:45
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Kabouik_I'm sure it's >4.3 for the application in particular yes phlixi_o. Here it's Number26 bank application, but there are others that I've encountered in the past days12:45
coderusentil: most of peoples not using google services, so no backups in clouds12:45
phlixi_o...and most vendors care about wether they abandon 50% potential userbase or not (ofc this is other for games for example, where the old phones woulnd not have enough crunching power anyways...12:46
phlixi_oand what makes you so sure about that? have you tried those apps on regular andoird phones?12:46
entilcoderus: there are other clouds out there ;) but yeah, it can be an issue for a lot of people12:47
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coderusentil: most of apps are using google cluod backups12:47
Kabouik_Yes phlixi_o. And it's written as a requirement for the application. The Android phone I've tried is not 4.3 and could not run it either. Only way I could run it is using Gentmotion emulator on my laptop (the app is mandatory to create an account in this bank).12:48
Kabouik_Plus I have the Google services on my Jolla, and the Play store states that my device is not compatible.12:48
entilI installed google play, and uninstalled, and now it keeps popping back in, like some bs app seems to install it for me12:49
phlixi_owell, than this particular app seems to actually suck? what are those "more and more" other apps?12:49
coderusentil: you can't just uninstall system app, even if aliendalvik thinks so12:49
entiloh12:49
Kabouik_Well you can't decide that an app sucks just because it requires the last version of Android. It might be true, don't get me wrong, but Android is offering features for them to be used by devs. Apparently, they require them for N26 app, or don't have enough ressources to ensure retrocompatibility.12:50
Kabouik_Just sticking to old version just because good apps should work with them is fallacious12:51
entilyou can always start your own native sailfish open source project12:51
Kabouik_Also, I don't know if this is correct, but CLR64 states in the TJC URL above " Android 4.4.4 would be a major step and a really cool update. Because all of the closed source updates of google after 4.4 it's likely that most apps will be compatible to 4.3/4.4 for a very long time."12:53
Kabouik_Unfortunately I'm no dev entil, and we're talking about a bank application, I doubt they'll provide any support for developping your own open source alternative12:54
entilKabouik_: fwiw I was playing the role of freetard, of course a minority phone has to support majority applications12:54
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Kabouik_And so, now that there is an official statement that Fairphone 2 will have Sailfish, shall we expect it to run with the 4.1.2 Dalvik of Jolla, or 4.4.4 of Jolla tablet?14:18
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Kabouik_This might be a selling point for the FP2 for me (which shows that I care more about upgrade than data loss for Android apps!)14:19
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r0kk3rzKabouik_: at least 4.4.4 for FP2 i would expect14:25
r0kk3rztheres zero reason for it to be 4.1.2 like jphone14:25
r0kk3rzand i expect 'dataloss' for jphone upgrade is more than just stuff in dalvik, i would expect the whole phone to need a new image14:26
Kabouik_Yeah but the reasons for keeping 4.1.2 for the Jolla while 4.4.4 is available for the tablet can be considered obscured too (though I understand that data loss may be an issue for some, although warning them would help a lot)... So never know!14:27
r0kk3rzwell, its hooked into the bsp from the manufacturer afaik, so upgrading it is a lot of work14:29
r0kk3rzi would hope that effort would go into things like qt5.6 rather than upgraded dalvik for an aging device14:30
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RaimKabouik_: official statement? where can I read that?15:02
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Kabouik_ It's on their Twitter account Raim. Unfortunately this is the place for official statements nowadays. :]15:03
Kabouik_Which means there's not much to read15:03
RaimKabouik_: fair enough. all I saw was only about the community port (which means, no Android support)15:03
Kabouik_Give me a minute, I'll try to find the exact twitter discussion15:04
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r0kk3rzRaim: afaik its still a 'maybe' but guys on the FP forums area saying 'April'15:05
Kabouik_https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/711855375159595009 here it is Raim15:05
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Kabouik_April for a release, or for the official deal r0kk3rz?15:06
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r0kk3rzKabouik_: release i think15:07
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Kabouik_Would be nice, I'd probably go for a Fairphone with SF if it was fully supported. I need a refresh of my Jolla (which, to be honest, totally contrasts with the Fairphone rationale, I have to admit it)15:08
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Raimhm, I will not put much hope into such a "partnership" until I see it actually exists :-)15:11
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Raimthe previous position with "we support the community to do it" was also called a "partnership"15:12
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r0kk3rzyeah if you really really want dalvik its probably best to wait15:13
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r0kk3rzthe FP2s at MWC had dalvik on them though15:13
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Kabouik_Fairphone also reported on Twitter that there is already a community port, and that the "deal" was something more15:13
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Kabouik_They implied it by saying "There are already people running SF here at Fairphone, so it [the official port] should not take long", something like that15:14
phlixi_ogreat to read this in the thread: https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/71186788610566144115:14
Kabouik_Well, this, exactly. :D15:14
phlixi_oi wonder whether those people at FP are running SFOS with or without android support15:15
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phlixi_odo i really have to search for the twitter credentials of an account i made years ago and never use to ask them?15:16
phlixi_o:D15:16
helpme654645Hey I need some jolla help, I used an apk downloader to get an app I want on my jolla phone in apk form -- how do I install it?15:16
phlixi_oi usually download them in browser, then i have them in downloads (transfers in settings or similar, ask if you need more precise) then you can click on it and it will install15:17
phlixi_ohelpme654645 maybe you can just tap on them in filebrowser15:18
phlixi_oyou probably have to allow this in settings as well, some kind of install from untrusted sources checkbox15:18
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helpme654645tried installing but the app doesn't seem to work on sailfish15:19
r0kk3rzhelpme654645: then maybe it needs something the phone doesnt have15:21
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r0kk3rzlike, newer android, or play services15:21
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helpme654645OH YES15:22
helpme654645I RETRIED AND IT WORKED :D15:22
helpme654645one more question: how often are you guys charging your jolla phones?15:23
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Kabouik_phlixi_o probably! Last time I used (and created, actually) a Twitter account was to ask questions to Jolla before the release of the phone. Your turn with Fairphone. :]15:28
phlixi_osame for me :-)15:28
phlixi_ohttps://twitter.com/phlixi15:28
phlixi_o:D15:28
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phlixi_odamnit, spelling error15:32
Liekeshame on you15:33
Kabouik_If they manage to answer, I'll take the next question (well, and is it 4.4.4 like on tablet? :>)!15:33
phlixi_o:-)15:34
Kabouik_Or they will answer "No."15:34
phlixi_o:-(15:34
phlixi_oi wonder if the bezel might be a problem15:34
Kabouik_Yeah, I wondered that too. Just stopped wondering when I realized I'd wonder until the point I could get my hands on a FP2.15:35
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Kabouik_Bezel-speaking, nothing will ever beat the N9, I'm afraid. :( That's too bad: we all know the design is brilliant for gestures, but no manufacturer use it (except Yotaphone, kind off)15:36
phlixi_oi remember that the n9 was awesome with swyping and such, but awefull as soon as you put on the "bumper" which made swypes nearly impossible (for me)15:36
phlixi_o...15:36
phlixi_oat least "swype from outside the screen" are less important on sfos than they where on n915:37
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r0kk3rzthe bezel is fine15:38
Kabouik_Yep, that's right, though it was a nice and easy feature to have these two different gestures with different functions, I don't remember mixing them or using one instead of the other by mistake.15:38
Kabouik_But SF gestures are good enough15:38
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phlixi_oi think its pretty consistent to have gestures that start outside the screen which do something on os level (eg go to homescreen) and have gestures that start inside the screen that do something inside the app15:51
phlixi_o...with the removal of coveractions this got a bit mixed up15:52
phlixi_or0kk3rz did you use sfos on fp2 already?15:52
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r0kk3rzphlixi_o: yup15:55
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r0kk3rzwell briefly anyway15:55
phlixi_oand did you ever used an n9 with the stadard bumper on it?15:55
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r0kk3rznope15:57
r0kk3rznever owned one15:57
phlixi_oi wonder whether you would say the same about that...15:57
Kabouik_I was not much annoyed by the bumber case with the N9 for swypes from edge of the screen, but I guess it depends on the way we did the gestures15:58
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Kabouik_I rapidly removed the bumper though, after a few months, as dust accumulated and the phone was actually damaged quicker than without it. And the N9 touch was so nice!15:59
r0kk3rzthe fp2 is a chunky phone though, it compromises a fair bit for repairability15:59
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phlixi_oi fear that other who dont had problems with the n9 bumper also have no problem with fp2, thus, r0kk3rz also might not have problems with the n9 bumper...16:27
phlixi_o...but i had problems with the n9 bumper, and fear that therefore i will have problems with the fp2 bumper style border around the display16:27
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phlixi_o...in fact its a design decision the made to have a case which acts like a bumper16:28
r0kk3rzthe FP2 != n916:28
r0kk3rzthe fp2 is a lot bigger for starters16:28
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r0kk3rzbut it is nice to try before you buy for some things16:29
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r0kk3rzif you really dont like the bumper, you might be able to make a dirk style rear case instead https://twitter.com/dirkvanleersum/status/68797071497304064116:34
phlixi_oi am only talking about the border which seems to me exactly like n9 with bumer (which was horrible for me)16:35
phlixi_odirkvl for the rescue...16:35
phlixi_o...nice :-)16:35
dirkvlam i needed?16:36
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dirkvlthere is also a 1piece fp2 casing, but havent tested it myself yet :p16:37
kimmolii found one github repo with stl for fp2 case16:37
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kimmolihttps://github.com/keesj/fp2_extension_sample16:40
phlixi_oKabouik: https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/71304140237715865616:41
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phlixi_odirkvl no, you are not needed :-) you already helped16:42
HtheBguys, any idea when will we see a new fw update?16:42
phlixi_ofw update as in firmware update as in sailfish os update?16:42
HtheBsailfish os update16:42
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eugeniosoon16:42
eugenio:)16:42
phlixi_ousually a week or two after the early release... well this time the eraly release is two months old :(16:43
HtheBeugenio: I was wondering when SD card support for Android will arrive16:43
HtheBit was first in the release notes for 2.0.1.716:43
HtheBbut then it was revoked16:43
phlixi_o...from jan 19 (2016) https://blog.jolla.com/taalojarvi_early_access/16:43
eugeniowasn't there on 2.0.1.7 but only on the unicorn?16:43
HtheBso I was wondering if it will be available in an upcoming version16:44
eugenioer... tablet?16:44
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HtheBeugenio: unicorn is probably less rare16:44
eugenioright16:44
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phlixi_oHtheB: this might help? i have no clue.. https://together.jolla.com/question/127217/2017-android-sd-card-support/16:45
eugeniothere is also the intex phone coming up next month16:45
eugeniomaybe they will release 2.0.2 directly and drop 2.0.1?16:45
phlixi_o...and i still think this is the correct approach: https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/16:46
phlixi_o...that said, i think we two should not talk about sdcards and android on SFOS :-)16:46
HtheBphlixi_o: you should realize that my dad is not so techincal16:50
HtheBso removing the sd card to read it by his notebook, is the easiest way for him16:50
HtheBhe has a 64GB uSD card16:50
HtheBwhich means that he needs to format it as exfat16:50
Kabouik_Err, bad news phlixi_o. At least they say "yet"!16:51
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HtheBphlixi_o: so I can't use the sharing option, hope you understand why I insist to have this to work16:55
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r0kk3rzsailfish is perhaps not the best fit for the 'not so technical' yet17:00
phlixi_owell, perhaps it would be possible to teach him how to connect via sftp, rsync or whatever directly on the device instead of taking it out before doing that17:08
phlixi_o... HtheB in the end he will use some sort of filebrowser to acces the files, its not that big of a diference to point that filebrowser to a folder on the jolla compared to a folder in the sdcard reader...17:09
phlixi_obut of course you can insist :-)17:10
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the_mgtHtheB: what is the os he is using?17:42
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HtheBthe_mgt: I've bought him a Jolla18:24
HtheBbecause he was using the N9 before18:24
HtheBhe didn't like Android18:24
HtheBbut we can't get around Android (because of the Apps)18:25
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HtheBMy dad is at least familair with the Sailfish UI because of Harmattan18:30
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the_mgtHtheB: os on the computer, i mean18:33
HtheBwin718:34
the_mgthe could access the data via cyberduck, I guess18:34
HtheBbut thats the problem18:34
HtheBhe takes a lot of videos and pictures18:34
HtheBwhen he's somewhere, he rather wants to copy files directly to someones pc using just a microsd adapter18:35
HtheB(SD Card)18:35
HtheByou cant just install/download some software for this :(18:35
HtheBI dont know what to do atm18:35
the_mgtwrite an app that pushes the pictures to the sdcard18:36
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the_mgteither regularly or on demand. cron would probably not be a good idea18:36
the_mgtanyway, time for lunch18:36
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HtheBthe_mgt: I've made a symlink to the Camera18:40
HtheBso that works ok18:40
HtheBthe problem is just that the Android apps can't see the files on the SD Card at all18:40
HtheBSo when you try to share a picture, it's just not working18:40
HtheBbon apetite!18:41
HtheBwill be waiting for you :)18:41
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HtheBthe_mgt: still lunch?19:25
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HtheBphlixi: ok I give up20:18
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HtheBphlixi: you there?20:59
HtheBeveryone dead?21:02
HtheB0.21:03
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HtheBcoderus: ping21:05
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EyeAJolla21:52
EyeA)01!@21:52
EyeA)0hh21:52
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