#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2016-06-14

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sledgesgood morning! https://together.jolla.com/question/136373/official-annoucement-starting-community-translation-round-for-then-next-sailfish-os-update/05:52
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stephgoo06:12
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SkoozNew batch of Jolla Cs out today :D07:16
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phlixi_!seen pdanek07:30
merbotphlixi_: pdanek was last seen in #jollamobile 2 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 19 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <pdanek> Or large 100-man dev team?07:30
phlixi_i guess he will miss this batch as ell :D07:31
phlixi_well*07:31
r0kk3rznew JC batch?07:37
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r0kk3rzyaay new JC batch!07:37
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speactraseems to be only a few hundred so be quick :)07:47
citylight2did anyone know when the jolla c be shipped?07:47
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Hartzijuly07:48
speactracitylight2: first batch sometime in july07:48
citylight2and the current sale at 1pm?07:49
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phlixi_r0kk3rz it was announced on the mailing list07:52
tadzikwait where07:52
Stskeepshttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007188.html07:53
tadzikThe Program is currently sold out.07:53
Stskeepsread the mail07:53
Stskeeps:P07:53
tadzikach07:53
tadzikI'll schedule a break in the class then at that time...07:54
phlixi_tadzik in 126 minutes07:54
phlixi_:)07:54
tadzikphlixi_: Thanks :) Relative time is so much better than dealing with timezones07:56
phlixi_actually, if the timespan is larger, i usually hate it07:56
phlixi_like twitter (or whatever) "this post is 4 months old"07:56
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phlixi_"posted 2 years ago" .... you no longer see whether the other "2 years old" post was within a short timeframe (e. g. same day)07:57
phlixi_absolute works much better^^07:57
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r0kk3rzcitylight2: some lucky folk get their Jolla Cs next weekend in Helsinki08:03
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ArmadilloI really need my Jolla C fast, my Jolla 1's battery drains faster each day...08:05
r0kk3rzmy jphone was acting strange last night after getting drenched at Download festival...08:06
stephgr0kk3rz: I tripped the moisture sensor on my first one but it carried on fine since08:06
stephg(riding home on a particularly epicly wet evening)08:06
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r0kk3rzstephg: yeah it seems ok now, and i dont think it got *that* wet08:08
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the_mgtwhat is a Jolla C?08:09
r0kk3rznew phone :)08:09
phlixi_the_mgt: http://jolla.com/jollac08:09
cehtehunobtanium :D08:11
the_mgtI see08:11
cehtehis that a jolla branded intex, or did they really design a complete phone for just 1000 pcs?08:12
the_mgtbit of an asshole move not to ask anyone who failed to get a tablet if they were interested. communication is still not a skill over there08:12
M-Yanielit's the intex aqua fish08:12
M-Yanieljust without the intex branding08:12
tadzikhow much was that again, 179€?08:12
cehtehah ok then it makes sense08:13
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stephg(and without support)08:13
cehtehwell, no mag, no gyro .. and some other things are mission08:13
cehtehmissing08:13
cehtehbut its cheap08:13
LarstiQthe_mgt: different audience08:13
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phlixi_specs are saying nothing about gorilla glass or similar, so i asume it gets cheap easy scratchable surface, i think its the biggest downside, but hey, 130 eur :D08:14
LarstiQphlixi_: plus tax and such08:15
phlixi_true08:15
phlixi_i guess you have to make such things in order to sell cheap enough on indian market08:16
ursalso, no tohkbd for it, so useless phone.08:16
phlixi_i think thats debateable08:17
stephgit has 2GB ram, that makes it a plenty useful phone for me :P08:18
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r0kk3rzstephg: more pixels! more Ramz! should be awesome, if ultimately a cheap device08:28
r0kk3rzno btrfs \o/, stick a swap file on the emmc and never OOM ever again!08:29
stephgr0kk3rz: hehehe08:30
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gabriel9Why can't i order in Germany10:00
gabriel9?10:00
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citylight2YES10:02
r0kk3rzgabriel9: theres a location selector hiding down the bottom of the page10:02
gabriel9ok10:05
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rigoOK, paypal did not work and now it is already out of stock. I think I missed it10:16
rigo:((10:16
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phlixi_oAvailability: Out of stock10:18
phlixi_owow10:18
phlixi_o10 minutes?10:18
phlixi_o:D10:18
phlixi_oi think jolla should really do this and say "limited to few hundreds" and then just tell intex how many orders they got....10:19
Hartzi"well, that escalated quickly"10:19
phlixi_oactually i thought they did this with this seconds batch10:19
phlixi_o(well, maybe)10:19
phlixi_oobviously they didnt, if sold out after 10 minutes^^10:19
r0kk3rzphlixi_o: i wonder whether its not the number of phones thats the problem, its the 'community program' that goes along with it10:20
phlixi_oi have no prove, but i am convinced this soly for not having warranty etc... a trick to give us the chance to buy it10:21
r0kk3rzfor sure its a legal hack, but they still need to follow through with the program10:22
* lbt has no comment :)10:24
lbtrigo has gone ... hmm10:25
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Skooz'One simple trick they don't tell you that lets you sell tgousands of phones on a promise without a warranty or guaranree'10:26
SkoozAlso works for tablets? :(10:27
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phlixi_othey should do, but: "Availability: Out of stock"10:35
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tilltoo bad my jolla still works perfectly :(10:42
jaywalkSkooz: I dont understand, the tablet has its full warranty?10:42
Skoozyea, was an afterthought to my previous comment. It doesn't really work.10:43
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phlixi_ojaywalk: of course10:47
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tadziktill: that's what I thought last time Jolla C's were available, a week later my btrfs shat itself :P11:17
tadzikit was fixable, but hell it was annoying11:17
tadzikI missed the window today though anyway11:17
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lainwir3dbatch ?11:29
lainwir3dbatch of what ?11:29
TMavicaHow many pcs Jolla C this time?11:29
TMavicaSeem faster than 1st branch11:29
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rigowas anyone able to get a community phone?11:55
Stskeepssupposedly it was gone within 10-15 minutes11:56
rigo:((11:56
rigobut jolla claims there is no business in selling hardware .... =:-o11:56
lbtit's a matter of scale11:57
lbtnb ... keep en eye on the store - a few may come back into stock as messed up orders are cancelled11:57
rigolbt: IMHO it is not a matter of scale, but a matter of good commercial calculation11:58
rigoif jolla can buy some hardware for x, put sailfish on it and sell it for x+y there is no question of scale12:00
* lbt slaps his forhead ... I *knew* there was something we were doing wrong :D12:00
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M-YanielI suppose Jolla's upper management (and investors?) had other plans...12:01
M-Yaniellet's see how the russian partnership turns out12:01
rigobecause for every n, y is supposed to cover the cost of putting sailfish plus some benefit for the company12:01
entily is an aggregate of many variable things, you know?12:02
entiland x isn't really that constant either12:03
rigothen make an attempt to sell and if it is gone in 15 minutes, order more phones12:03
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rigoentil: y is supposed to be calculated to cover the variation12:05
rigothat may lead to an intex phone with jolla for 200€, but then see if this can be sold12:05
Stskeepsor alternatively, put 1000 phones on the market and make people bid for them12:06
Stskeeps:P12:06
rigoif the thing is gone in 15min, make it 220€ and continue12:06
entilthat sounds an awful lot like this tablet campaign I heard of once12:06
rigoStskeeps: Yay!!!12:06
M-Yanielentil: the one without the tablets?12:07
rigoentil: the tablet campaign was very different as it let to the renovation of sailfishOS, thus repurposed the collected funds12:07
rigowhich is fine, but unrelated to my suggestion :)12:07
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entilM-Yaniel: yeah, I think that's the one12:09
entilrigo: there have been very valid points that you can't just go "derp! imma install this!"12:09
entilrigo: you need to take care of drivers'n'shit12:10
rigobut you did that anyway for the intex phones that were sold in 15 minutes :)12:10
entilI'm not affiliated with jolla12:10
rigooh, sorry, s/you/they/g12:11
entilthere's also marketing and whatnot that offsets some of the y by intex12:11
rigosure, it is really the question how big you can push y before you have only a few people left buying it12:11
entiland there were unanticipated hardware issues with the tablet, and one might criticise that, but the point is that y isn't that easily determined all of the time12:11
rigothus you can't sustain the employees....12:12
rigoentil: and I think they had two options. Reimbursement or asking the people wanting a tablet to add money to overcome the issues12:12
rigojolla decided for one option :-/ I would have tried the other12:13
rigoanyway, I have to give a presentation now12:13
rigocu12:13
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entilgl12:14
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r0kk3rzlol. thats exactly what they did for jolla phone, and they budgeted Y for selling 1 million phones12:24
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the_mgthm, I just realized that they "owe" me exactly 179$ from the refound campaign. they could have offered such a C phone. :(12:26
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LarstiQthe_mgt: have you not been refunded?12:28
the_mgtonly half12:35
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citylight2I would have paied 330 euro for a jolla C, given it had wireless charging and 802.1AC and NFC12:51
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TMavicaCan I get invitations if take plane to Helsinki at 17? Lol13:01
phlixi_ocitylight2 it has none of these, right?13:03
citylight2right13:04
phlixi_owhy doesnt jolla go ahead and say "preorder between jun 15 and jun 22" or whatever, and then go to intex and say "we gathered x preorders"? why do they have to order batches first? seems silly to me13:04
citylight2I agree, it seems they sell well even after the tablet fiasco and given the current spec which is lacking compared to other phones13:06
Hellecitylight2: People have learned that SailfishOS will run like the clappers even on low-midrange HW13:08
citylight2by the way, now that drop box connectivity is supported, how to download a file from dropbox to my jolla?13:08
r0kk3rzeven if its lacking, its still the best specced sailfishos phone released to date13:09
phlixi_ojolla1 has better glass spec :D13:09
SpeedEvilphlixi_o: presumably because dates are unfortunately uncertain.13:11
SpeedEvilphlixi_o: It is concievable that this hardware was ordered some considerable time ago.13:11
phlixi_oi didnt mind when i was a "first one"13:11
phlixi_oi doubt this second batch had been ordered before the last batch13:11
chem|stdates uncertain, maybe there is a limit to "uncertified hardware" they may spread13:12
chem|stphlixi_o: the first batch needs to be around already as they will be handed out in 3 days13:12
SpeedEvilAlso, it seems reasonable to me that devs who order and then get it in 3 weeks (say) may be more likely to do something with it compared to if they get it in 6 months13:12
phlixi_ochem|st: yes, sure, no doubt about that13:12
phlixi_oseems more like 6 weeks to me (and i expect it in august)13:13
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Azogwhat's the price for repairing the jolla-phone with a broken display at the moment? does someone know?13:23
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citylight2why did the earphone hole chnage to the left side? used to be on the right in jolla?14:33
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Stskeepscitylight2: probably pcb differences14:42
Tofeor a successful conspiracy from the evil left-handed people14:42
citylight2but why? oh why?14:42
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zebbiz_piAnyone got the Jolla C?16:09
coderusjolla sailors :)16:10
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zebbiz_picoderus: I meant anyone in here16:34
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coderusthere are many jolla sailors :D16:35
Raimwhat do you mean exactly? already in their hands or just ordered?16:36
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zebbiz_piI mean https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-community-device-program-jolla-c-second-batch/16:39
zebbiz_pihttps://jolla.com/jollac16:40
Raimcertainly someone "got it", because it is sold out16:41
zebbiz_piI'll refrase my question16:43
zebbiz_piDid someone here, in this channel, get the Jolla C that they opened for order today?16:44
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cehtehlooks jolla cant supply the demand :D, why dont they just sell the phone for profit in 100.000's18:32
phlixi_pretty sure you got the figures wrong18:33
phlixi_lets asume they now have 1.5k preorders18:33
phlixi_maybe they would sell 2k, maybe 5, i dont know18:33
phlixi_(sadly) for sure they wont sell 100k18:33
phlixi_lets hope intex does^^18:34
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M4rtinKlets hope the device actually ships this time ;-)18:34
cehtehnot so sure, how many original phones got sold?18:34
phlixi_i don tknow why, but i am pretty confident that i will get my jc latest in august18:35
cehtehthere was the note in the news that they sold more than apple sold iphones in finland18:35
r0kk3rzjolla has never released figures, we can only guess18:35
LarstiQM4rtinK: reasonably confident it will18:35
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kimmolicehteh: during one month in the only retail chain jolla was available18:36
phlixi_maybe jolla sold more jollas on the relase day, but i dont belive that (i can not think of a even more favoarble perversion of the figures)18:36
r0kk3rz.fi is nokia territory afterall18:37
cehtehanyway. i tihnk 100k is not that far fetched and if if its only 50k or only 10k ... they need market share, and bit profits would help them too18:38
cehteh100k phones with $20 profits per phone, would add at least some money into the pool18:39
phlixi_i think you are way to optimistic18:39
r0kk3rzcehteh: the Jolla C is being sold at cost, with no warranty18:39
r0kk3rzso, no profits18:40
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M4rtinKbut you can still get some money from side effects of the bigger installation base! :)18:40
M4rtinKlike cut from paid apps18:40
M4rtinKoh wait... ;-)18:41
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r0kk3rzeven the big players are reducing their cut from paid apps these days18:41
cehtehr0kk3rz: i saiued "sell them in 100000's for profits" .. if they sell them for $30 more ($20 profit, $10 for warranty etc) i bet people would still buy them18:41
phlixi_cehteh: still way to optimistic18:42
cehtehjolla should give up chasing behind the big players, they will be always last18:42
phlixi_if it is "a real product" they have to care about warranty, certifications etc, support....18:42
cehtehyes18:42
phlixi_i have no idea, but i guess it would have to be 300 or more for identival hardware18:43
r0kk3rzcehteh: + costs for warehousing + order fulfillment + post sale support + warranty support vendors18:43
cehtehbut certification must been done for the devel device already ...18:43
phlixi_exactly r0kk3rz18:43
cehtehlook at fairphones figures18:43
phlixi_good idea.. fp2 costs what? 500?18:43
r0kk3rzfairphone is a hardware vendor, they dont really make software18:44
cehtehyes but jolla isnt fair18:44
cehtehanyway no need to discuss that here18:44
r0kk3rzthey partner with a software company kwamecorp18:44
cehtehbut how do they want to sell their OS/Software with devices where it runs are hard to come by?18:44
r0kk3rzto hardware vendors18:45
cehtehthe only reason i see is maybe they dont want to compete with potential licensees18:45
r0kk3rzlike intex, and turing, and fairphone, and that other african one18:45
phlixi_then there would be no jolla c18:45
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cehtehbut then currentl in 90% of the world you cant buy any Sailfish device18:45
LarstiQr0kk3rz: mi-fone18:46
cehtehi meant official/finished/useable support18:46
M4rtinKI think Jolla C exists for 2 reasons18:46
cehtehnot community ports18:46
r0kk3rzLarstiQ: yeah thats it :)18:46
M4rtinK1) we have some prototypes/early hardware - lets sell it18:46
cehtehis SF on fairphone reasonable complete? android support?18:46
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r0kk3rzcehteh: yes, but they arent selling it yet18:47
phlixi_cehteh: no one has android support, exchange etc...18:47
M4rtinK2) to make "some" new hardware accessible - having no current & buyable hardware running your OS could be a death blow18:47
mal-just preparing the next release of sailfish for fairphone 218:47
phlixi_cehteh: but i asume you could check #apkenv for the sfdroid status for fp218:50
r0kk3rzphlixi_: we have seen alien-dalvik on a FP2 running, but its up to fp if they want to sell it or not18:51
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M4rtinKthey could finally say something official about it18:52
cehtehmy wife wants a new phone, i may convince her to get a fp218:52
phlixi_r0kk3rz: yes, i know, but there is no license for that18:52
M4rtinKpeople have been pestering them about that nonstop for some time18:52
cehtehits a bit on the expensive side unfortunally ..18:52
M-Yanielcehteh: well it's about the same as an iphone se18:54
cehtehiphone is never a comparsion18:54
cehtehesp comparing fp vs iphone .. huh :)18:54
cehtehcompletely different end of spectrum18:55
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Liekewell, jolla 1 was 400€ wasn't it?18:57
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M4rtinKI actually got it for that much back then18:57
Liekei got it for 360 i think18:57
cehtehapropos, maybe wrong asking here, but in which countries/parts of the world does the FP2 work18:57
phlixi_GSM/GPRS/EDGE18:58
phlixi_Quad-band: 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz18:58
cehtehi dont know all these freqs and where they are used18:58
phlixi_thats, kind of everywhere (not sure about US)18:58
cehteheverywhere except us is ok :D18:59
phlixi_probably also US, i dont know18:59
* cehteh needs europe and south-america18:59
cehtehhttps://fairphone.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205572745-Will-the-Fairphone-2-work-outside-of-Europe-18:59
cehtehokg18:59
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