#jollamobile log for Thursday, 2016-08-04

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Milo-Wasn't JollaC supposed to stay on when it's plugged into a charger and battery is removed?16:21
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Milo-oh, something is broken..  either the port or the cord.16:29
M-schmittlauchPatchmanager complained about missing qml files, so to be sure I wanted to reinstall lipstick with all it's qml files. I'm on Jolla1, 2.0.2.4816:35
M-schmittlauchThe problem about that: I get a dependency conflict when trying to reinstall already-installed packages: https://www.systemli.org/paste/?8536ce5788c95063#MfXJjPdTuSSwy6RWhVZ0Mu2rVImG0OPT1Q2vHGL5jg0=16:37
M-schmittlauchAny ideas on what's wrong?16:37
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attahM-schmittlauch: repo lists up to date?17:37
M-schmittlauchattah: should be, as zypper did an automatic refresh. I also did a ssu --dup before, just to make sure17:37
attahhmm.. i can pkcon search name the packages you are missing17:39
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M-schmittlauchseems like these installed packages aren't in the repos (anymore?): https://www.systemli.org/paste/?72c2adad5fc8a881#95BiE4RXMj5Ycj8l2O3cWYF91AZ5ocndRzHdbcTk83I=17:42
M-schmittlauchweird stuff17:42
M-schmittlauchA zypper ref fixed it, apparently the system repos aren't set to autoupdate17:44
attahi have never had clients autoupdate, i also don't use zypper :)17:45
M-schmittlauchI used zypper because I already had it installed and I'm more familiar with it.17:47
attahnot saying you are doing it wrong.. just saying i have no experience17:49
attahi use pkcon (also installed) which is more familiar for me17:50
* M-schmittlauch is now running an unpatched lipstick - what a strange experience17:52
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chopixHello, does the Jolla C have a magnetometer?18:01
M-schmittlauchchopix: No, it doesn't.18:05
chopixI just ordered an Intex Aqua Fish and was wondering about this lacking18:06
chopixsince I am moving fnrom a n9 which has been used a lot with GPS navigatio18:07
abransonif you're driving, it doesn't matter. you might not have used the compass anyway.18:07
abransonas to use it you usually have to switch map mode, then wave the phone around for a while to calibrate it.18:08
abransonUsually map applications take your direction of movement as a cue for their map orientation, as compasses are a bit flakey anyway.18:08
chopixok18:09
chopixso basically you aren't experiencing any lack of functionality without the magne so far?18:10
the_mgtafaik, the maps on the N9 were similar to the ones on the symbian phones18:11
the_mgtso, with the default maps app from sfos, you'll miss voice based navigation18:11
the_mgtalso, it is not offline18:12
the_mgtyour typical routing stuff is only available via 3rd party app. I use HERE for android, works rather nice18:12
chopixtheres no third party app that does offline?18:12
chopixI see18:12
the_mgtHERE does offline and voice18:12
chopixand works through dalvik18:13
the_mgtyep18:13
chopixcool18:13
the_mgtHERE is basically what is left from nokias navigation stuff18:13
the_mgtthough i think it was bought by three german car manufacturers, recently. not sure. ask wiki :)18:13
chopixthe drive and map app on the n9 was(is?) pretty good18:13
the_mgtI liked the one on my C7 too. even on the old C6 it was acceptable18:14
chopixI used the map app even while walking18:14
chopixin cities u know18:14
chopixto find a particolar place18:14
YanielToo bad it wasn't ported to Jolla as is18:14
the_mgtwell, in cities, the built in maps app is enough18:14
the_mgtit has a pedestrian mode18:14
chopixyeah but the compass was usefull18:14
chopixbecause it would rotate the map18:14
chopixtoward your destination18:15
the_mgtI am not sure if the Jolla 1 has a dedicated compass18:15
the_mgtmy pebble has one18:15
chopixI doubt this happens on the Jolla C/Intex18:15
the_mgtwell, I am quite capable of abstracting the direction from a map, while working, so no worries here18:15
chopix:D18:16
the_mgtI also think you can turn the map on screen with 2 fingers18:16
chopixwell let's see when the phone arrives18:16
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chopixunless the customs will arrest me for importing a device without a CE mark on it18:17
chopixso you moved from symbian to sailfish?18:19
the_mgtyep, symbian^3, or rather Belle18:21
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attahAF is not CE marked? :O18:21
attahi mean they essentially self-certify, don't they?18:21
chopixwell they market the device18:22
chopixin India18:22
the_mgtthe C7 is butt ugly, but it's form factor was rather practical. you didn't notice it in your pocket18:22
chopixI don't see why would they certify it for the EU18:22
sakustarseems the C7 was prone to getting lost18:23
the_mgtthe problem is this waste fee, i thought? electronical devices need a manufacturer that garantees he would take the broken device back and recycles it18:23
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the_mgtsakustar: I killed one mobile in the washing machine, but I never lost one, till now18:24
chopixI have lost 2 nokias on public transports :p18:24
the_mgtwell, once I almost lost a w580, but my gf was still sitting in the bus and took it with here18:24
chopixalso several mp3 players18:24
sakustarwhich one did you lose18:24
chopixtalking about more than 10 years ago18:26
chopixdont even remember the model18:26
sakustari need something foolproof as a backup phone18:26
sakustarkeep dropping phones out of my pockets18:27
sakustardisplays dont like18:27
chopixdo you remember when you didn't even have a cell phone? :P18:28
the_mgtsakustar: http://www.johnsphones.com18:28
the_mgthttp://www.johnsphones.com/store/johns-phone-business/item45 this one18:29
chopixget this18:30
chopixhttp://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_motofone_f3-1794.php18:30
chopixi still have it somewhere :p18:31
sakustarooh. +1 for offline features :D18:32
the_mgtchopix: pff, way too overfeatured18:32
chopixeink display though :D18:33
the_mgtI know, a friend had this as a travelling phone18:34
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chopixso why did you buy a sailfish phone instead of android/ios the_mgt?18:35
the_mgtyeah, exactly, why?!18:35
the_mgtI wanted a linux cell phone since like, evar18:36
attahdual-purpose dumbphone ftw: http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/MotorolaC12318:36
the_mgtin 2011, I met raster at the cebit in hannover and he had some samsung device running enlightenment windowmanager, e17, iirc18:36
the_mgtit was smooth and looked good and I always wondered why they did not simply release a tizen phone, later18:37
chopixattah: cool, it comes without a case and a screen? :D18:37
attahchopix: nah, it has a case most of the time18:38
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chopixwell samsung released a tizen phone18:38
chopixwas my other option, but no community behind it18:38
the_mgtopenmoko was no alternative, and since I liked the nokia phones, i thought jolla might be nice18:38
the_mgtwell, the #e channel is quite active, but that is only the gui18:39
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chopix#e channel?18:39
the_mgtirc, you know, this rather outdated chat medium18:39
chopixi know but whats the channel about?18:40
chopixtizen?18:40
sakustarirc outdated?18:40
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sakustarwhat next? you claim no one has a fax at home?18:40
chopixirc is so outdated that it's the future fellas18:40
chopixi just sent a fax today btw18:40
the_mgthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen#Overview18:40
the_mgte as in enlightenment18:41
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the_mgttizen uses the enlightenment foundation libraries. remember the enlightenment16 windowmanager? they made some others, e17, e18, etc18:41
chopixI have no idea what is this windowmanager18:42
the_mgthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(software)18:43
chopixyeah im googling18:43
the_mgthave you used a desktop linux before ubuntu became popular?18:43
chopixofc18:43
the_mgtback in the time of windowmaker and the fugly *box things?18:43
chopixbut i just use windowmaker18:43
chopixyeah i just use windowmaker:p18:43
the_mgtah. see, I got annoyed by windowmaker and switched to e16, because it was way more attractive18:44
chopixand sometimes i must admit i used kde :p18:44
chopixbtw I doubt samsung will ever try to market tizen "seriously" if you know what I mean18:45
chopixsamsung is the biggest android player so18:45
the_mgtyeah, they are already too late to the party18:45
the_mgtso, for one nobody cares about their linux phone and they would shoot their own foot18:46
chopixI don't see them trying to gain market shares from themselves18:46
the_mgtI'd buy a tizen tablet18:46
chopixI just a cell phone which won't make me part of a botnet actually18:46
chopix*want18:46
the_mgti like the swipe interface18:47
the_mgton sailfish18:47
chopixthey took it from the n918:47
ahjolinnasamsung has started to use tizen on their TVs and smart watch...and I think on their cameras also...18:47
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chopixyet just a phone released, and in India18:47
the_mgtit might make sense on a smart tv18:48
abransonchopix: the navigation maps still rotate the map towards your destination, or rather in the direction you're travelling.18:48
the_mgti hate all samsung smart tvs, cluttered, unresponsive ugly shite18:48
sakustarall smart tvs more liek18:48
chopixabranson: the map app?18:49
abransonthe compass was only for the mode where it aligned itself when you were stationary18:49
abransonyep18:49
ahjolinnaI hate all samsung  products...okay their SSD are fine18:49
chopixi vouche for the washing machine too18:49
chopix*their18:49
the_mgtack, ssds rock. and the tft displays18:49
chopixwashing machines are pretty cool too18:49
the_mgtor rather, they dont rock but are solid midclass18:49
the_mgtdell rocks18:49
sakustarhmm18:50
sakustarkinda want to test their tanks before condemning18:50
chopixthey also make ships18:50
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chopixsoooo anyone succeded flashing the jolla c firmware on the intex? (for studying purposes)18:51
sakustarwonder if the ships have to be rebooted every few hours18:53
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suosaaskichopix: if that works out, is there any difference between the two?18:54
chopixis the Jolla C firmware available to download somewhere?18:54
chopixsuosaaski: afaik the hardware is the same18:54
chopixbut ofc the intex comes with some indian bloatware, different LTE bands18:55
suosaaskithat's why I would be interested in this flashing thing, too.18:55
chopixand the phone sends an SMS every few hours to an Indian phone number18:56
suosaaskinot that I have neither the intex or the jolla. But in general, If I were to buy that intex.18:56
suosaaskiWould rather get the jolla, though18:56
chopixsuosaaski: yeah me too, but I was later on the party18:56
suosaaskimaybe I should have ordered the C.18:57
suosaaskiOr maybe it is good I didn't18:57
suosaaskiwould rather have the tablet for the same price :)18:57
chopixI don't understand tablets18:58
chopixI have one, all I do with it is reading something while I am shitting18:58
* the_mgt makes a note not to touch chopix mobile devices18:59
suosaaskiwell... I have a tablet. my son uses it. I don't.18:59
suosaaskiBut still I would kinda like to test the jolla.18:59
chopixthe_mgt: I clean it after having shi**ed on it :)19:00
the_mgtthey all claim that19:00
suosaaskiMaybe when better specced sailfish os devices hit the market I might get more interested. Or if someone makes a easy-to-install-even-for-a-non-developer port of sailfish for for example my lg g319:00
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chopixI don't see the porting route coming soon19:01
chopixHW is too different19:01
chopixUsage is too litle so far19:01
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suosaaskiYeah, well, remains to be seen. It's not like sailfish products would be available in the stores, either (except for maybe the original Jolla somewhere gathering dust)19:02
chopixif the intex partnership goes well they could be selling intex phones rebranded actually19:04
chopixin EU at least19:04
suosaaskiremains to be seen. I don't understand why they wont just sell it more. I would imagine they would still sell some19:05
chopixare you talking about the jolla c?19:05
suosaaskiyes19:05
chopixno idea19:06
chopixyou can buy an intex though19:07
chopixthey pretty cheap19:07
M-schmittlauchJolla1 has a magnetometer, that's why there are compass apps. And another quite good android routing app is Osmand, depending on how the OSM coverage is in your area.19:07
suosaaskichopix: well. I actually can't (or don't want to), since they are asking way too much information to complete the order19:09
chopixwell they ask a scan of you CC19:09
chopixs/of/for19:10
suosaaskiyes. Not gonna happen.19:10
chopixYou could actually19:10
chopixUse masterpass19:11
chopixto pay for it19:11
chopixI tried but it failed though19:11
chopixmasterpass is like paypal19:11
attahyou can get it off international ebay at a premium... (w/ paypal)19:11
chopixpremium is too high19:11
chopixand it does still ship from india19:11
chopixso you have to add VAt and customs taxes19:12
attahstill half the price of what J1 was19:12
attahand that wasn't a bad price imo19:13
chopix400 euro is a lot tbh19:13
chopixthis is why i skipped jolla119:13
attahN9 was 650-ish19:13
chopixnever costed that much here19:13
chopixi bought mine for 44019:13
chopixbut n9 was... more premium?19:14
attahchopix: 16 or 64?19:14
chopix1619:14
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attahi got the 64 at launch19:14
chopixI see19:14
suosaaskijolla1 was way too much for the specs. Simple as that. "It's not the specs, it's the OS" ...but it is.19:14
attahso i guess i'm to blame :)19:14
chopixsend me some money richman :p19:14
chopixyeah it was too much for the specs19:15
chopixn9 when it came out was pretty high end19:15
chopixexept the single core arm cpu19:15
attahchopix: same as like galaxy 1 which was 3 years before it19:16
attah-ish19:16
chopixu forget the 1 gb ram19:16
chopixthe oled display19:16
suosaaskiwell, 64GB storage, 1GB RAM, really nice UI...19:16
chopixand beautiful desidng :P19:16
chopix*design19:16
attahdesign was freaking awesome, i grant you that19:17
attahi thought g1 was oled19:17
chopixno idea but doubt it19:17
suosaaskibut cpu and maybe RAM was "all nokia", as in way under the norm.19:17
attahchopix: "super amoled"19:17
suosaaskidouble tap to wake and all those swipes. It was nice.19:18
the_mgtI still wonder how I missed out on the N9, never new it existed until I owned a jolla19:18
ppn9 is still quite usable19:18
the_mgtI knew about the n900, which was rather underspecced for my desires19:18
suosaaskiand that feed-apps-multitasking layout <319:18
JopeI liked the harmattan ui a lot19:18
attahpp: until you try to go on the web19:18
chopixpp: my n9 batter is a joke now, also whatsup doesn't work anymore19:19
Jopetoo bad about all the integrated services becoming obsolete one by one19:19
ppthat, the internet is too slow and the browser obsolete19:19
Jopeno twitter, no maps, no facebook etc19:19
chopixbut 4 happy years19:19
attahbut heck even the C craps out there sometimes19:19
suosaaskiit is a nice "what could have been" device for those who like to think about the past instead of the future19:20
attahif i have audible running and open something like https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-feather-huzzah-esp8266/overview it borks bad :(19:20
attahthe sailfish browser really doesn't like images19:20
chopixattah what are you using now?19:21
attahchopix: C19:21
chopixas a phone19:21
chopixare you happy with it?19:21
attahit's a faster jolla what's not to like?19:21
chopixno idea, maybe its too big19:21
attahi have large hands19:22
chopixis this a threat? :p19:22
suosaaskitoo big?19:22
suosaaskiit's only 5"19:22
suosaaski(times have changed)19:22
ppI just used a nexus 5x as a navigator / wifi tablet for a week, ux is so horrid but hardware is so much > j1 (or C, probably)19:22
suosaaskiux on android is just fine, just different to sailfish so takes getting used to if you are using sailfish19:23
suosaaskialso, quality wise nexus 5x is kinda cheap feeling (compared to for example oneplus 3)19:24
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chopixI have to go19:24
chopixthanks for the chat19:24
chopixlaters maybe19:24
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attahC is indeed cheap, but it's not trying to be premium, and it's build according to the limitations and done well so i don't mind it at all19:27
attahI just wish it'd have glass from this millennium19:27
attahi saw someone driving in a nail with a N9, or was it the winderp equivalent possibly...19:28
suosaaskilumia 900 probably19:29
attahnow that's a display :)19:30
r0kk3rzsuosaaski: too much button pushing on android19:34
suosaaskiyou get used to it.19:35
suosaaskifrom what I've seen on sailfish, you still open the apps the same way19:35
attahr0kk3rz: word! and now with the new framework not using the semi-hw back button, and instead having it top left...19:36
attahthat is pure evil19:36
r0kk3rzattah: yeah, top left on a 5.5" phone19:37
r0kk3rzthanks guys19:37
attahsuosaaski: open, yes.. but back/home is so much better19:37
sakustaryeah wonder who made up the top left19:38
attahheck.. my work Z3 compact is bad enough even with my large hands19:38
sakustarso annoying to use a phone while driving now that it requires both hands19:39
attahsakustar: it's a leftie conspiracy19:39
sakustarim a leftiw19:39
suosaaskiI usually use my phone with my left hand, I am right handed19:39
attahi do it to out of necessity19:39
r0kk3rzthe good thing about gestures, is that you can do them wherever is comfortable for you, not so much with buttons...19:39
suosaaskimaybe for the rare occasions when I need two hands, my right hand is already free19:40
suosaaskiI am still not sure what gestures I would miss if I actually could use a sailfish device daily and then I would have to revert to android.19:40
sakustaryou should see me operate my android :-D19:41
sakustarthe swiping + swearing mixed with confusion19:41
Yanielswiping out of apps19:42
Yanielevery.single.time.19:42
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attahyup19:42
r0kk3rzYaniel: eerytime...19:42
suosaaskino, when I ditched my N9, I tried the swiping thing for a week or two, but haven't REALLY missed it so much that I would have to go back to similar.19:43
sakustarhave to or prefer ?19:43
suosaaskihave to = miss it so much that I couldn't live without it19:44
sakustarkinda like you dont have to have a physical qwerty19:44
suosaaskiGot used to not having it quite quickly19:44
sakustarbut after 5+ years you still typo and want to break phones because of the virtuaö kbd19:44
suosaaskiI did really want a phone with physical qwerty, but with todays screen sizes and vkbs, not anymore.19:45
suosaaskiAnd also, I can (=could) just use my voice...19:45
sakustarto type?19:46
suosaaskiwell... wouldn't have to _type_, now would I.19:46
sakustaryou must live without restrictions19:47
sakustar:)19:47
r0kk3rzsuosaaski: whether it not its a 'killer feature' thats a 'must have' is kinda irrelevant... imo gestures are clearly objectively better19:47
sakustarbeing able to yell at a phone all night could be nice19:47
sakustarbut kinda awkward to use while out in public19:48
suosaaskiYes, but the new vkbs are nice too19:48
suosaaskior "new"19:48
suosaaskijust saying, every device is a compromise. Just a different kind of compromise19:49
sakustaryeah19:49
r0kk3rzonly because they're 'one size fits all'19:49
suosaaskiTo be honest, I would probably have a Windows phone if there wasn't that app gap thing.19:49
sakustari tried to use my keyboard with usb otg but the phone didnt give out enough power :(19:49
attahjust give me the average semi-premium device and SFOS and i'm a happy camper19:50
suosaaskir0kk3rz: they aren't, but luckily there are options so one can select which feature they can compromise on in favor of another.19:50
sakustartheres no option for a keyboard19:50
suosaaskiattah: I think I might enjoy SFOS on my G3 or OP2, but not holding my breath19:51
r0kk3rztheres comparatively little difference compared to the size of the market19:51
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suosaaskisakustar: well, you could always have a small bt keyboard... well, not always, because of that is just another thing to carry around. But sometimes.19:52
sakustaruntil i get a qwerty slider i wont be happy with phones19:52
sakustar:(19:52
suosaaskir0kk3rz: depends of course on what features you are comparing.19:53
attahbb passport looks nice too19:53
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suosaaskisakustar: seems that that time has passed. I was pissed when I saw the pics of Lankku (or Lauta?), though :)19:53
attahlike the 1:1 display19:53
sakustarsuosaaski: so dissappointment for life eh? :D19:54
attahsuosaaski: Lankku (planka) :)19:54
suosaaskiit was at the time, I always thought that the N9 with a qwerty would be perfect. And there it was. Fffffffff.....19:55
suosaaskihttps://www.microsoft.com/accessories/fi-fi/products/keyboards/universal-foldable-keyboard/gu5-00008 that thing is surprisingly small19:56
suosaaskiwhen folded19:56
r0kk3rzlankku was basically production n95019:56
sakustarbt keyboards dont "just work" most of the time tho19:56
suosaaskiIt was "Lauta", not Lankku (Lankku was N950, right?)19:57
suosaaskihttp://muropaketti.com/wp-content/uploads/s/f/editor/images/X-2012101009545392858.jpg19:57
sakustarmaybe my lenovo was defective but had to restart bt and keyboard just to get them working19:58
attahlankku is N9 afaik19:59
suosaaskiright19:59
suosaaskiit is19:59
sakustare7 has a nice keyboard20:00
attah(wood) board, telling of it's solid, non-slide-out shape20:01
suosaaskiit was a quality device.20:01
sakustarshame it had the worst camera ever20:01
suosaaskinot the worst ever. By that I mean, it was not the only phone with that crap camera :)20:01
sakustarwell worst one i ever had to own20:02
attahN8 was apparently really awesome camera-wize20:02
sakustaryes20:02
suosaaskiit was20:02
attahnever had the pleasure20:02
suosaaskiso was 80820:02
attahhaha, true20:02
suosaaskiand lumia 102020:03
sakustare7 couldnt even take a picture of an A4 so that you could make out text20:03
sakustarthats my standard for a usable camera :/20:03
sakustarsuosaaski: probably the bad memory comes from getting an e7 out of repair instead of my old n90020:05
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FireFlyYou too?20:12
* FireFly shakes fist at telenor20:12
FireFly(in my case, anyway)20:12
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