#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2016-08-17

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rigomy android icons do not show up. I searched TJC to no avail. Is this a known issue?09:05
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coderusyes, some apps cant generate icons09:42
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HtheBcoderus: any idea why some apps generates more then 1 icon?09:48
HtheBlike today, I suddenly got 2 Play Store icons :/09:48
coderusHtheB: thats not possible09:48
HtheBcoderus: it is09:48
HtheB(I mean app icons in the app drawer)09:48
HtheBTry installing "Mobile Voip", you will end up having 2 icons :/09:49
coderus:(09:50
coderustwo main activities, probably09:51
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rigoHtheB, coderus: I installed apps and the icons do not appear11:00
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HtheBcoderus: let me check the .desktop files11:08
HtheBrigo: I had the same problem when incorrectly installed the Google Play services11:09
HtheBhave you tried to install Play services?11:09
rigono, this started with the first android app (here app)11:10
HtheBapk or jolla store?11:10
rigojolla store. I have no openrepos yet and certainly will try to do without android apps as far as I can11:11
rigobut did not realize the here app was android until it was too late11:11
HtheBlol11:11
HtheBHere is indeed Android11:12
HtheByou need the dalvik, thats probably the reason why you dont see it in the drawer11:12
rigoha! I have android support installed. Does this add dalvik as a dependency? If not why not :)11:13
rigoor is dalvik the android support package?11:13
rigostarting slowly to dig fom N9 into jollaC11:14
Nicd-android support is dalvik11:15
Nicd-or rather, includes dalvik11:15
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temmi_hooHtheB: do you have anything to say on how to install google play services onto a jolla phone?11:24
HtheBtemmi_hoo: which jolla11:24
temmi_hoothe jolla phone from few years back11:24
temmi_hoonot the latest gratest offering11:25
HtheBhttp://htheb.com/list/index.php?dir=jolla%2Fapps%2FPlayStoreforJolla%2FJolla%2F11:25
temmi_hoothe usb connection is necessary or can i just use ssh over wifi as per usual?11:26
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temmi_hoothx anyway, i'll be looking at this later on today11:28
temmi_hoojust now googling resulted in a new thread on tjc (15hrs old) that i understandably could not find several weeks ago11:29
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HtheBtemmi_hoo: ssh is fine11:43
HtheBthe tutorial is made for n00bs11:43
HtheBif you prefer ssh, thats ok11:43
temmi_hooi've loved ssh from when ssh1 was new and it basically allowed me to remotely log into real production servers over the interwebs tubes11:48
temmi_hoobefore that it was already known that plaintext remote access is just not done outside "trusted local network"11:49
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temmi_hooof course we now know there is no such a thing as a trusted network be it how local you wish12:47
LarstiQtemmi_hoo: user@localhost? ;)12:50
temmi_hooread the paper on trusting trust - it's turtles all the way down12:51
LarstiQtemmi_hoo: ah but there is a defence against that12:51
LarstiQtemmi_hoo: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html12:52
temmi_hooso you need to draw a line somewhere while understanding that it's a compromise and basically all you can do is mitigate the worst case damage in a number of worst cases to something that is manageable12:52
LarstiQ(of course, then we have issues with hdd malware and such..)12:52
temmi_hoomanaging the worst doesn't mean you can trust any part of anything12:52
temmi_hoowell12:53
temmi_hooin practice you have to trust some things but what's really important is to keep in mind that the whole trust issue is artificial and anything you trust can be broken12:53
LarstiQsure12:54
temmi_hooso you need to have measures against those cases as well or at least your risk analysis has to include such unlikely things as cpu containing malware or foreign spies using your hosts to their own purposes and the like and contain some ideas on how to deal with the situation should the worst happen12:58
temmi_hoocpus can contain malware as well12:58
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pahi13:06
pai was wondering: is jolla still going with qtmozembed or are you guys planning to switch to qtwebengine?13:06
r0kk3rzpa: i expect they would continue with qtmozembed13:09
par0kk3rz, is it mainly developed by jolla? qtmozembed i mean13:10
r0kk3rzafaik its _only_ developed by jolla13:11
r0kk3rzpa: any reason you ask?13:12
par0kk3rz, well i was wondering if it wouldn't be a viable alternative to qtwebengine13:13
paand something that would deserve to be more community developed (especially firefox community)13:13
r0kk3rzpa: there was a mozilla guy who showed some interest... but he never got back to me13:14
par0kk3rz, qt doesn't care at all?13:14
r0kk3rzbut yes, its an alternative to qtwebengine for sure13:14
r0kk3rzno idea about qt13:14
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chriadamsee e.g. https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-components-webview13:38
chriadamqtwebengine integration is something that might happen in future depending on when we can update to the next LTS release of Qt after 5.6 (I suspect 5.9 will be another LTS but I may be wrong)13:40
chriadambut for now, we're going with qtmozembed.13:40
dunphttp://hackaday.com/2016/08/15/turn-your-motorola-android-phone-into-a-raspberry-pi13:41
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SfietKonstantinWthanks chriadam for sailfish-components-webview :)15:58
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Venemopa: I believe nobody's got time for switching16:13
Venemoat least that has been the excuse so far16:13
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r0kk3rzVenemo: that and qtwebengine is still experimental16:36
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Venemor0kk3rz: IIRC there was a guy at jolla who created a blink-based browser, don't remember who it was but I remember Stskeeps telling me about it16:37
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r0kk3rztworaz's quicksilver, yeah thats experimental as well :)16:37
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Venemoso we now have like 4-5 experimental browsers16:51
Venemoand a default browser which is equally as crap16:52
locusftworaz made a chromium browser16:52
locusfah so thats the engine16:52
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r0kk3rzon jollac sailfish-browser works great17:26
Venemor0kk3rz: you mean the default?17:27
Venemoit is equally crappy as on jolla1, just the better hardware hides away some of the crappiness17:27
taaemlocusf: i think he isn't with Jolla anymore17:29
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r0kk3rzVenemo: make something thats better then :P17:30
Venemor0kk3rz: lol17:30
taaemsailfish-browser is open source so...17:31
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r0kk3rztaaem: and webpirate, and webcat17:36
r0kk3rzfor me sailfish-browser is good enough that i cant be bothered making my own or improving one of those17:36
taaemr0kk3rz: same goes for me17:37
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Venemosailfish-browser is slow as hell17:44
taaemgecko and not chromium17:44
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locusfhmm17:51
locusfwonder if the rust engine would be portable17:51
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temmi_hoomaking own browser is always of course the best answer to a browser being slow or bad18:16
temmi_hooas opposed to patching the slow bad one to be good and fast18:16
phlixinot sure i agree with that18:17
phlixibuiling a browser binds huge amounts of resources18:18
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temmi_hoohey it's the linux way to fork projects like slicing bread so that everybody has their own personal project18:21
temmi_hoojust like when ifconfig is bad and crufty it's better to invent /sbin/ip instead of fixing ifconfig18:22
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phlixiplus, making your own browser, doesnt make it any better than existing engines18:30
phlixiyou can aim for beeing better, but look at the budged of firefox...18:31
phlixichromes and trinity is probably even a lot huigher, but i dont know if there are figures18:31
phlixitrident*18:32
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temmi_hoo:)18:39
temmi_hoonaturally i'm joking at the expense of everybody who forks a browser project instead of providing patches or pull requests to an existing project18:40
temmi_hoofor some decades now i've been astounded at the tendency of gnu fan people to either fork projects or start new projects instead of joining an existing one18:41
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r0kk3rztemmi_hoo: because the gnu fan is an antisocial nerd who doesnt want to bother people18:48
temmi_hoopossibly18:49
temmi_hoo"i'd rather install xdm instead of gdm - NATURALLY i'll fork the distribution instead of just installing the existing one like i wish"18:50
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christoph_debianandroid seems to be the only way to get a reasonable browser18:54
christoph_debianat leaswt android firefox is OK18:55
christoph_debianand has a still supported gecko18:55
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temmi_hooi'm not sure android is reasonable in any way19:03
christoph_debianwhat's the alternative?19:05
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evenfallchristoph_debian: amish19:09
r0kk3rzchristoph_debian: gecko on sailfish is getting updated19:11
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par0kk3rz, btw now there's http://blog.qt.io/blog/2016/07/18/qt-webbrowser-1-0/ apparently21:20
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pabut i'm not sure how good that would be for a phone21:20
pabut ideally it would be cool to have a minimal browser with a decent ad blocker, a decent privacy-badger sort-of, and bookmark/pwd syncing possibly to an open source server :-)21:21
paah yeah, and session management too, but that's lo prio21:22
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r0kk3rza minimal browser with loads of features :)21:25
pawell, 3 features :-)21:32
pai mean i avoid chromium generally because to sync bookmarks and stuff i have to use google account, which sucks21:32
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pabut i'd like to use an open source chromium-based browser that syncs my passwords and bookmarks to say mozilla server, or even better to a self hosted server21:33
palike mozilla used to be before they changed their sync21:33
r0kk3rzsounds a bit like vivaldi to me21:34
pai think vivaldi had some implication like data collection for making money21:34
taaemthey're probably using their own servers for sync no?21:34
pai read an interview to one of the creators some time ago21:34
r0kk3rzyeah but at least its someone else rather than giving google more stuff21:35
r0kk3rzthey already know too much21:35
pai agree21:37
pathat's why i say that with a little effort the qt opensource chromium based browser could be something usable even on desktop21:38
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paafter all, who needs a mail client or an rss reader in the browser, like vivaldi does21:38
r0kk3rzpeople are starting to crank out browsers with webengine21:39
paindeed21:40
taaemwe don't have webengine on sailfish currently21:40
pait would be good to have one reference browser instead of a zillion21:41
paone that people can trust21:41
paand that is not too minimal, so that can't be used, but that is also not a monster21:41
palike it doesnt have to have features that helps the creator to make money21:42
pasince it wouldn't be its point21:42
paand if this browser would be usable on desktop, it would be a huge win for say jolla too, because then you would have the same on the phone, with sync and  stuff21:43
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taaemis firefox sync open source?21:47
r0kk3rztaaem: not yet, but with qt5.6 we will21:49
taaemoh yeah true21:49
taaemfirefox sync is https://github.com/mozilla/fxa-auth-server/wiki/onepw-protocol well complicated21:50
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