#jollamobile log for Monday, 2017-02-27

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rubdosone month of battery life? Just make it twelve times thicker already! :D09:31
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tortoisedochello"09:34
tortoisedocare we ready for some news?? :)09:34
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MariusLotterHello, do you know the name of the app, that is a native app with functions like redshift. It is not in the store but you must download the installer. Can't remember it...09:41
rubdosHe what about this: Nokia brings out a bunch of new Android smartphones, and Jolla re-releases them (without buttons)? Would that be a nice announcement?09:42
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rubdosWhy do people leave, a second after they say something?09:46
MariusLotter1I had a internet connection interuption09:47
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r0kk3rzMariusLotter1: tint overlay?09:48
r0kk3rzMariusLotter1: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/tint-overlay09:48
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rubdosOooh, okay :)09:49
MariusLotter1Yes, thank you09:49
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Stskeepshttps://techcrunch.com/2017/02/27/jolla-inks-exclusive-license-to-kick-start-its-android-alternative-in-china/?ncid=rss11:11
Nicd-this is interesting: 'Jolla says it’s aiming to release an official version of the Sailfish OS for a range of Sony Mobile’s Xperia devices “soon”.'11:14
pp__ooh11:14
Stskeeps(i don't know anything, fwiw, just linking)11:15
Nicd-whatever you say Stskeeps ;)11:15
tbrquoting myself from elsewhere: so you can also read this as "jolla is now using Sony ODP devices instead of Nexus devices to showcase its software"11:15
r0kk3rztheres that word again11:18
phlixi_oi dont mind as long as they ship devices with alien11:18
phlixi_o...someone ships11:18
rigoso I think this is a very good move from our side in that our developers can keep a proper device for Sailfish and use that. And why not our fans as well?”11:18
Nicd-what's ODP in this context?11:19
rigowhy don't they make a contract with Sony so they can sell Xperia devices with some added price that covers everything?11:19
Nicd-rigo: expected revenue balanced against the costs of certification, support, polishing...11:19
pp__this one? https://developer.sonymobile.com/open-devices/11:21
r0kk3rzNicd-: sony publish sources, keep an AOSP build script public, as well as a mainline kernel effort11:22
phlixi_oNicd- open device program11:23
pp__I might even buy one :-) Xperia X looks okish, maybe a bit overkill (price too) but not too bad11:23
phlixi_oNicd- https://developer.sonymobile.com/open-devices/list-of-devices-and-resources/11:23
r0kk3rzpp__: will be interesting to see what troubles they had11:23
taaempp__: maybe wait til they make a community device with Alien Dalvik11:23
RaYmAnSony open devices has the majority of hw support open source - the amount of blobs is pretty limited these days :)11:24
RaYmAn(on AOSP that is)11:24
taaemthat's the good site of Sony11:24
pp__yep, I do need dalvik11:24
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tbrpp__: you might want to consider sfdroid. more likely to happen.11:29
M-schmittlauchCall me old-fashioned, but I still prefer phones with user-replaceable batteries :\11:30
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r0kk3rzM-schmittlauch: how are the OEMs going to get you to buy a new device every year or two?11:36
M-schmittlauchr0kk3rz: That's the spirit why I'd like to wait for a Fairphone 3, given the company survives long enough to present one.11:37
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phlixi_oSo, when Jolla is talking about "Sony Xperia X" are they referring to the "F5121", the "F5122" or both?12:15
r0kk3rzor are they referring to the whole X series?12:16
r0kk3rzunified kernel and all that12:16
phlixi_ohavent seen much, but i bet if it would be more then one device, it would have been way more emphasized12:18
M4rtinK_yet again - more information needed12:18
phlixi_oand https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sony_Jolla_press_release_MWC2017_FINAL.pdf says: "t12:19
phlixi_ohe first project is12:19
phlixi_oa12:19
phlixi_oSailfish OS12:19
phlixi_opowered12:19
phlixi_oXperia X"12:19
phlixi_ooops12:19
M4rtinK_hardware looks nice12:20
phlixi_oand https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sony_Jolla_press_release_MWC2017_FINAL.pdf says: "the first project is a Sailfish OS powered Xperia X"12:20
M4rtinK_but what form will it take ?12:20
M4rtinK_can I order one from Jolla ?12:20
M4rtinK_or do I get it from a shop & install an image from Jolla ?12:20
M4rtinK_and will it have Android support or SFDroid has to be extended for it ?12:21
r0kk3rzi guess this depends on whether they've renegotiated stuff with myriad12:21
r0kk3rzthe only benefit of the 'buy from jolla' model is alien-dalvik12:21
phlixi_oM4rtinK_ afaik not clear yet...12:21
M4rtinK_phlixi_o: exactly12:21
phlixi_o...let me know if you see anything official, i have the same questions12:22
TofeThe firmware binaries are online, so I guess they would be able to provide a flashable image, this time12:22
M4rtinK_phlixi_o: but even just "no Alien dalvik" could be useful to know for the SFDroid community12:22
M4rtinK_Tofe: good point!12:22
phlixi_oi see problems with alien and image for downloads12:22
r0kk3rzTofe: not quite, the binaries are available but for 'personal use only'12:22
r0kk3rzstupid licensing12:22
Tofer0kk3rz: yes, but that would be easy to negociate for Jolla I think. It's not the same as with trying to put online binaries that never were there12:24
phlixi_or0kk3rz well, for me thats (until now) a pretty important benefit12:24
phlixi_oi guess i am not alone with that12:24
phlixi_ono alien dalvik => problem12:24
r0kk3rzphlixi_o: of course, and worth the faff of jolla flashing and reselling sony devices. But if they can avoid that i think they will12:25
Tofephlixi_o: I don't see the point for Jolla in saying they support this particular device and not provide full support; otherwise they would have supported Nexus5 a long time ago12:25
phlixi_oTofe i asume so, but nothing official for now12:26
Tofephlixi_o: right12:26
r0kk3rztimes have also changed12:27
phlixi_oand if it is a fre download, then i would not expect the alien there12:27
r0kk3rzclearly they want to offer something for the euro market, but no OEMs are biting12:27
r0kk3rzso perhaps this is the alternative solution12:27
phlixi_oi like the idea more of an premium sony device, rather than some oem with a tiny batch of cheapo hardware12:28
Tofephlixi_o: no need to be free, people would easily pay a bit for having dalvik12:28
phlixi_oTofe sure, but payment is a problem12:28
TofeYep. Let's see how it goes... :)12:29
M4rtinK_in any case a device available in EU is sorely needed12:29
phlixi_otry to make payment on a website for something easy as selling your self made kniit goods... its a pain in the **12:29
pp__rpm repository with jolla account?12:29
M4rtinK_and a non-low end device device in general - Jolla C had some serious hardware issues & generally very low end hardware12:30
M4rtinK_BTW, anyone else who has their Jolla C randomly turn off (even on charger) and/or drain the battery ?12:32
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M4rtinK_can no longer use it as an alarm clock as it might be OFF & with empty battery in the morning...12:33
phlixi_onot here12:34
teveM4rtinK_: I've same problem. Usually restarts while on charger.12:35
M4rtinK_teve: good to know I'm not the only one! :)12:38
M4rtinK_it's super annoying12:38
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M4rtinK_but surprisingly I've not seen this really mentioned anywhere12:39
M4rtinK_on Together or talk.maemo.org...12:39
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SfietKonstantinWwow12:43
SfietKonstantinWsuch announces, much awesome12:43
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phlixi_o:)12:45
r0kk3rzahoy SfietKonstantinW!12:46
SfietKonstantinW:)12:47
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r0kk3rzhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/15:25
r0kk3rzfor those keyboard afficionados15:25
r0kk3rzthey're even doing to do a 4g one15:26
dlavsowow cool15:31
Nicd-yeah, not going to happen with that price and those specs15:35
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rubdosWhy Sony? :(16:12
* rubdos is a sad Lenovo dealer now.16:12
r0kk3rzrubdos: unified kernel16:13
* rubdos Googles16:14
r0kk3rzprobably not much on google16:14
r0kk3rzbut basically all sony devices are using one kernel tree16:14
rubdosOh, that's pretty cool16:14
r0kk3rzwhich makes it a lot easier to support many devices16:15
rubdosSo ± any Sony device will run SFOS16:15
rubdoscool16:15
r0kk3rzpotentially yeah16:15
rubdosWell, I'd love to have heard that they had an official Lenovo Moto G5 with SFOS16:15
rubdosbut there's that :P16:15
r0kk3rzyeah that would've been nice too16:16
rubdosBut well, seems like I'll have a new smartphone soon :)16:16
r0kk3rzyeah not sure what this sony stuff is going to look like16:18
rubdosIndeed. I really like my mother's Moto G4+, so I'd probably love to go with the G5.16:19
phlixi_oif you are looking for an officially supported device, i would not get hopes to high for "all sony devices", i pretty much expect them to officially support 1 (one) device, maybe a few more later...16:24
tbrfor values of "official" I guess16:26
phlixi_oof course jolla did not say they will not support all... but why should they^^16:26
tbrbut any work from their side is a big plus16:26
phlixi_oyeah, sure16:26
r0kk3rzthe PR did say 'official' but we will see16:26
phlixi_oand i am excited (as usual) if there comes an opportunity to throgh money at sailfish devices :D16:27
tbrPR says a lot if marketing gets their hands on the good™ drugs. ;-)16:27
phlixi_oor at tbr in case i am to slow ordering :D16:27
friesewell, anybody heard anything about android/myriad support for xperia x yet? that's been suspicially quiet and that one pic on tjc with the launcher only shows native sfos apps...16:27
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tbrfriese: if I were you, I'd be asking about sfdroid16:28
phlixi_ofriese nothing official, except that they said they will support a device (starting xperia x) and i expect oficially supported devices to have alien dalvik (or similar)16:28
r0kk3rzAOSP doesnt do sfdroid16:28
friesealright16:29
friesesfdroid, yes, not bad actually, but if i remember there's still no gps support? a good navigations app is basically the only thing i really miss on sailfish right now...16:29
phlixi_oiirc for jolla c they said "pure sailfish os" and it was almost fine print "supports android apps". i would have thought next time jolla is a bit more explicit on android support. however, i asume things will become clearer in (near?) future, for sure before there is something to buy16:30
tbrphlixi_o: don't expect anything to buy16:31
phlixi_onav is actually  another point hinting that there will be androd support, since they shipped last devices with nokia here16:31
phlixi_otbr well, i do16:31
friesewell let's hope for it. basically i have my shine fairphone 2 with mal's awesome port but it's just gathering dust while my jolla 1 is still daily driver16:31
tbryou'll have to buy a sony android device, unlock it to do sony odp, then flash sailfish16:31
phlixi_otbr do you know something i dont?16:32
tbrphlixi_o: yes, I know that launching a product is a massive legal liability16:32
friesemaybe if it's about licensing they could also sell sfos (or at least the android part)...16:33
tbrif they would sell phones, they'd need to fully certify16:33
tbr€€€16:33
phlixi_othen i maybe can buy another year of community thingy... which maybe let me download stuff from the store ( => dalvik) jolla needs that as development device, and i think they know its a big plus to have alien on the device16:33
* tbr just took a look at the myriad corporate page, no mention of aliendalvik as a product, whoops. :)16:34
phlixi_oin my dreams (ok, i do not actually dream of phones an such stuff, but if i would^^) jolla jumps ont the sfdroid train16:35
phlixi_obut i dont know how far away that is from reality16:36
phlixi_obtw, tbr http://www.myriadgroup.com/en/products/device-solutions/mobile-software/alien-dalvik/16:37
tbrwell hidden16:37
r0kk3rzit seems searchable but no in any of the menu trees16:37
tbryeah, no way to get there by navigation16:39
M4rtinK_friese, phlixi_o: check out OSM Scout Server, modRana & Poor Maps for native navigation support on Sailfish OS :)16:40
M4rtinK_some seriously nice stuff right there already :)16:40
M4rtinK_including offline map rendering, routing & POI search16:40
frieseM4rtinK_: i did, yeah, actually use that already, but it doesn't have a "real" turn-by-turn navigation with voice output for driving navigation16:41
M4rtinK_well, I kinda have that in the modRana core16:41
M4rtinK_still have to make the Qt 5 UI part for that though...16:41
phlixi_owell, i just mentioned nokia here stuff, since it is "jollas offial solution for maps"... i dont use it my self.16:41
M4rtinK_(the TTS using spoken instruction generator is there)16:42
r0kk3rzhere is no longer nokia16:42
M4rtinK_(just not the UI part)16:42
phlixi_o(which makes me think jolla has to support android apps)16:42
phlixi_oi thought it is still branded nokia, but yea, that might have changed in the meantime16:42
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phlixi_oor is it "here we go" now?16:43
phlixi_oidk16:43
phlixi_o^^16:43
r0kk3rzits not been branded nokia since it was sold to daimler16:43
phlixi_omust have overlooked that ... as mentioned, i dont use it16:44
r0kk3rzi do, its turn-by-turn is better than googles for sure16:44
malfriese: helping hands are welcome to make sfdroid work properly on fp2 :)16:44
friesemal: i know, i know, but i sure wouldn't be of much help there, didn't even get it to run yet...16:45
phlixi_obut since you are here anyway M4rtinK_, thank you for your efforts in maps! much appreciated :-)16:47
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M4rtinK_phlixi_o: thanks! :)16:48
M4rtinK_but there is still a lot to do :)16:48
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M4rtinK_like the turn-by-turn navigation with spoken directions16:48
M4rtinK_I'd also like to add a local POI database16:49
M4rtinK_so that users can add & show arbitrary POIs on the map16:50
M4rtinK_again, the code is already there in the core, just the UI needs to be added/extended16:50
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louisdkHabe anyone tried buying a Intex Aqua Fish case from this site: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20170227090635&SearchText=intex+aqua+fish+case - did it fit?17:07
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phlixi_ofriese, r0kk3rz, tbr i just noticed that Russian SFOS comes without alien dalvik. if they said it comes WITH dalvik (which they did not), then this would have made me more confident about alien dalvik on xperia x... source: https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/27/jolla-inks-exclusive-license-to-kick-start-its-android-alternative-in-china/ "During the press event Jolla also noted the Russian17:40
phlixi_oversion of its platform will not be utilizing Android app compatibility — which makes sense if you’re touting something being “absolutely Google free!”."17:40
tbrwhich also makes sense with their emphasis on security17:42
frieseguess we'll have to see. i don't see that 100% google-free claim for sony and i think it's only for russian devices becuase its the unique selling point for the government there, so i hopefully doubt that applies to sony devs as well17:42
r0kk3rzphlixi_o: why would those two things be related at all?17:44
phlixi_obecause it would have had meant the strategy has not changed, to ship sfos with alien dalvik17:45
phlixi_oit does not mean it has not changed, but its not indicating in that direction :-)17:46
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r0kk3rzits an additional feature, seems in line with what the russian govt wants to do to leave it out17:47
phlixi_osure17:47
phlixi_ono doubt about that17:47
phlixi_oi perfectly makes sense17:47
phlixi_obut was not my point :-)17:47
phlixi_oit*17:47
r0kk3rzbut since we dont know what form the sony stuff comes in17:47
phlixi_o :D17:47
r0kk3rzthen... who knows whether anything has changed there17:48
phlixi_olol wtf https://developer.sonymobile.com/unlockbootloader/email-verification/17:53
phlixi_obut, whatever... gn8^^17:54
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AL13Nis it normal that a bunch of qttools packages are out of date? i tried installing qttools-linguist, but no dice, the version was lower than the main qttools package19:22
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ced117why didnt they do something with Fairphone... :(19:45
ced117M4rtinK: i never had this issue with my JollaC (randomly restarts while on charger)19:47
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ced117and, maybe i missed something, but Sony will NOT sell devices with SailfishOS directly, Jolla will only offer flashable image, right ?19:49
ced117M-schmittlauch: here take at look at everything you have to remove just to change the battery (xperia x) https://ifixit.com/Guide/Sony+Xperia+X+Battery+Replacement/6596219:51
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ced117Oh well, it's nice to see more partners supporting SailfishOS anyway ! :)19:53
r0kk3rzced117: it hasnt really been announced how it will work19:53
r0kk3rzbut no, it seems unlikely that sony will sell anything19:53
ced117i was reading the backlog and some tweets, but right, it's unlikely :/19:54
M-schmittlauchced117: 'Difficulty: moderate' Ok, it might not be the worst, nevertheless exchangeable batteries saved my ass multiple times and are in some aspects better than external powerbanks: Smaller, more efficient, don't hang around etc.19:54
ced117I totally agree with you M-schmittlauch, thats why i'm sad that they didnt announce anything official with Fairphone19:55
ced117user-exchangeable batteries is the way to go, thats for sure.19:56
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ced117oh and i forgot, thanks again mal for your work on the Fairphone2 SailfishOS port ! ;)19:57
ced117i love it.19:57
mal:)20:11
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M-schmittlauchargh. ran into the "pulley menus are getting stuck" issue again. So annoying21:14
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