#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2017-03-01

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Pawkyis there a downlodable SFOS ROM for experia X if buying a phone from an ordinary store, for "development" purposes of course?06:43
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JopeI'm sure this will be announced once it's available for consumption :-D06:45
PawkyJope: well... then one could just buy the one.... for consumption, i of course mean to get ahead in the process.06:47
JopeI'm waiting for jolla to release some firmwares before spending money on a toy06:48
Jopehere's hoping there will be one for the x compact, but z5c is fine too06:48
Jope:-D06:48
PawkyThe question is, could one buy a Xperia X today, and later on change the firmware to SFOS once it will be released publicly or will there be some lock in "you have to buy a specific version" type of limitation to it all?06:50
Dottiprobably too early to say06:52
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Jopewell definitely the firmware must be adapted for the hardware07:00
Jopeso .. if you buy an xperia x and the firmware is for the xperia xa, then you have a nice android phone, but can't run sfos unless you do the adaptation yourself07:01
Jopeor am I missing something, losing something in translation07:01
Jopejust wait until there is some firmware to download, then buy a phone that can run it. no reason to rush out to buy them, these are mass produced devices, they will be available new and used when the time comes07:02
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Jopehttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/ something with psion lineage.. hmm07:35
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PawkyWhy do all phone makers persist in having fingerprint scanners as authentication alternative on the phones, when your fingerprints are scanned into passport databases , police records, when entering USA, and on whatever glas or item you will touch? Isn't this type of security a bit naive and only servers the purpose for your spouse and kids to not find out what ever pr0n site you've been visiting?07:50
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Helle_Pawky: casual security can still be security, so yes07:51
PawkyHelle_: against whom?07:52
Pawkyor what07:52
PawkyI would say even a three digit pin code would be more secure than fingerprint readers...07:53
PawkyI'm happy it was never put into the Jolla phone...07:55
coderusdon't use fingerprint lock if you dont need, what is your problem?07:55
Helle_Pawky: it's easy to trivial to snoop on pincodes or even worse, the Android swipe codes07:55
Helle_Pawky: I always manage to learn them in one go if I see someone do them from any angle behind them, and in 2-3 goes when in front of them....07:55
PawkyHelle_: I didn't say pin codes are secure, i just mean fingerprints aren't much better...07:56
larstiqPawky: https://phys.org/news/2017-01-android-device-pattern.html07:56
Helle_Pawky: they are a bit better, you can't casually reproduce them07:56
PawkyHelle_: oh yes you can :-)07:56
r0kk3rzPawky: its convenient, not so much extra secure07:56
Helle_Pawky: not casually, you need to actually try07:56
larstiqPawky: different methods suit different threat models07:57
larstiqthat said, I'd go for a long pin07:57
coderusif you don't wipe screen with alcohol each time after entering code/gesture it can be easily reproduced :)07:57
Pawkycoderus: exactly07:58
coderusso i don't get your point why fingerprint is worse :D07:58
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pdanekPsion is back!07:58
PawkyHelle_: this is old, but still inspirational :-) http://www2.washjeff.edu/users/ahollandminkley/Biometric/index.html07:59
pdanekhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/07:59
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kimmolipdanek: no its not. it is yet another indiegogo fail08:52
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r0kk3rzdecacore!08:53
r0kk3rzsomeones been taking a leaf out of the Turing playbook08:53
Nicd-I said earlier, not at that price point08:53
Nicd-r0kk3rz: decacore is real though08:54
kimmolipokecore08:54
r0kk3rzNicd-: sure, but it still seems excessive08:54
Nicd-eh, the point is to have high performance cores, mid performance and low performance08:55
Nicd-then just turn off the unneeded cores08:55
Nicd-you can get battery savings and performance improvements that way08:55
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Liekethe problem with fingerprints versus pin codes is, you can't just go and change your fingerprint09:18
Jopealso, fingerprints can't be hashed09:23
Jopekimmoli, do you have some background info about the gemini?09:24
Jopeis it just a bunch of guys riding on psion's reputation?09:25
Jopesome known con artists?09:25
kimmoliJope: no. it just triggered09:30
Jopeok09:30
kimmolibut i could bet it wont ship Nov 201709:33
Jopethat is usually the case with these more ambitious projects..09:35
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kimmoliat least i would need new suspenders, with that 400g weight09:43
JopeI'll just use my manbag09:43
kimmolibut it is ~2162 kg/m3, which is little less than aluminium09:43
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PawkyLieke: Well, in one sence you have 10/20 times to change it, after that you run out of fingers and toes ;-)09:48
PawkyLieke: maybe its time to develop a a morphable key finger you can use, and modify to your liking, without ever having to use your own. Something to crowdsource maybe? :-D09:51
Liekesounds fun :D09:53
Pawkyan index finger with a key ring to attach all other keys :-)09:53
Pawkywith some RSA key exchange possibilities, and bluetooth, wifi so you can send your fingerprint to some one else if need be ;-)09:54
r0kk3rzsmartwatch unlock is a thing09:56
PawkyI mean, fingerprints seem to be the edge of security these days as lots of items implement it :-D09:56
r0kk3rzsure, its convenient09:56
Pawkyr0kk3rz: nah... no phones, and computers have smart watch unlock cababilities, they all have these ... finger print scanners..09:56
r0kk3rzPawky: android phones do, with android wear watches09:57
r0kk3rzhave done for a while now, few years at least09:57
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r0kk3rzhttp://www.talkandroid.com/guides/android-lollipop-guides/how-to-setup-trusted-devices-on-android-lollipop-to-automatically-unlock-your-phone-or-tablet/10:02
r0kk3rzlooks like it would also work with an NFC ring10:02
r0kk3rzwhich also is a thing that exists and you can buy10:02
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pdanekIs Jolla reborn?11:14
pdanekWith the Sony deal11:15
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tillIf I can buy devices with Sailfish OS preinstalled I would say yes :)11:15
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r0kk3rztill: looks like you'll probably flash it through Sonys own flash tool11:22
r0kk3rzand the end result will be the same11:23
pdanekBut will it support Android apps?11:25
PawkyI have heard hints it will...11:25
pdanekAnd what about the development11:26
pdanekIs it back to speed same as before?11:26
Pawkyno clue...11:26
PawkyLooking into the Jolla store itself, I belive most programers have gone feet up when it comes to active development.11:27
r0kk3rzseems that yes it will have dalvik, theres been multiple reports of that11:27
PawkyWithout the Dalvik as a saviour to apps, Sailfish would probable already be dead. There are just so many apps I wish would be native, but unfortunately is android..11:29
M4rtinKPawky: or developers stopped bothering with the Store & publish on OpenRepos :)11:32
PawkyM4rtinK: ahh there you are! :-)11:32
M4rtinKPawky: there are still too many hoops to jump through for many popular apps11:32
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phlixi_or0kk3rz i am curios, what makes you thinking it is "probably"  that you will download and flash it through sonys website?13:20
r0kk3rzphlixi_o: i own a sony device, and thats how you reflash them currently13:21
r0kk3rzits a software, detects device model, shows image options, and downloads and flashes for you13:22
phlixi_ook, so nothing official, just "pure intuition" :D13:22
kimmolihttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1524390&postcount=12713:22
phlixi_othanks kimmoli13:23
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r0kk3rzannoyingly enough, it only works on windows though13:28
r0kk3rzhttps://developer.sonymobile.com/open-devices/flash-tool/use-the-flash-tool-for-xperia-devices/13:28
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phlixi_oat least you dont need flash to play the video which shows you how to flash :D13:50
phlixi_owhat bothers me more is, that it seems to me as if i would have to register or something like that in order to unlock the phone13:52
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r0kk3rzyou do13:58
r0kk3rzpresumably for warranty reasons13:58
r0kk3rzit also kills some of the proprietary bits and bobs on the device13:59
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phlixi_oi dont mind the killed blobs, every potatoe is a better camera than jp1301 and jc. i am pretty sure even the killed-blob-camera in xepria phones is still way better than what i have now^^14:03
phlixi_oand in the dream world there is some of the stuff included in the sfos images (or the preloaded sold ones)14:04
r0kk3rznot quite, without the rather impressive noise reduction algorithms the cameras on my tablet are a bit shithouse14:04
r0kk3rzbut its a tablet, so who cares, on a phone though14:04
phlixi_oi can not imagine a camera worse than the on of the jp130114:05
r0kk3rzwell no14:05
r0kk3rza broad bean would take a better picture14:05
phlixi_omaybe the camera module i got together with my simens phone back in 200014:05
phlixi_othen its fine for me :-)14:06
phlixi_oactually a worse camera than the jp1301 :-D https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Siemens_S55_with_IQP-500.jpg14:07
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caitlinbis there  a way i can get access to this sony thing early or did i need to be a community member 6 years ago?16:15
caitlinbmy poor jolla is a bit weary but i can’t let go of sailfish16:15
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r0kk3rzcaitlinb: yeah probably16:17
Tegusomehow I am not that interested in the community devices.. but I hope they will eventually help to make a new customer device as well16:18
r0kk3rzonce we get the patched android tree a few of us sony porters will do up images16:18
r0kk3rzTegu: why?16:19
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Tegur0kk3rz: *shrug* of course it is nice to get new hardware with official sailfish but it would be nice that it would be available for everybody. so let's put it this way, they're nice but a customer device would be nicer.16:38
Tegudefinitely nice for developers, though16:38
larstiqTegu: having enough customers to make that worthwhile would be nice, yes16:38
r0kk3rzTegu: why is it not available to everybody?16:41
kimmolii hope that this stunt will give some more visibility, and possible customers16:41
Tegur0kk3rz: as far as I know, it would require signing to a developer program?16:43
Teguso, while anybody coud do that, it's an additional barrier16:44
TeguI guess I'm being too negative, though. I should look at it from the other way around, that it's good that there will be devices at all16:44
r0kk3rzmaybe, but i havent seen anything saying that16:44
Teguand lack of warranty drops more16:45
Tegupotential buyers16:45
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r0kk3rzif it works the way i think its going to work, the only signup will be the small one to get the bootloader code for your device16:47
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ramsesHDHRMPF second Jolla 1 with a broken touchscreen. The quality is "amazing".18:59
muzzlefuzDoes someone out of germany have a intex aqua fish?19:00
ramsesHDmuzzlefuz: no, but I'm thinking about getting one.19:00
muzzlefuzi am asking because of the missing lte band 20 800mhz, does someone have experience ?19:00
kimmolithere was some customs issues to get them shipped to germany19:00
muzzlefuzi know. but there are other channels to get19:01
kimmoliyep19:01
muzzlefuzi ordered one, i am very exited but donmt know how problematic it would be for me because of using telekom D1 probably LTE Band 20 800mhz19:02
ramsesHDmuzzlefuz: Wikipedia says that it is compatible to 800 MHz.19:04
muzzlefuzi thought only jolla C not intex aqaua fish19:05
ramsesHDhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_Fish - have a look at the specifications19:05
phlixi_can not tell how bad it is if band 20 is missing, since i miss 20 3 and 7 :D19:09
phlixi_however, in the mean time all three use all three bands19:09
phlixi_that is: each on of them, telekom, vodafone and o2 use 3, 7 and 20 in GER19:10
muzzlefuzok thats interesting thanks19:10
* SQUelcher just noticed clicking noises from his jolla c19:10
SQUelcheri hate it when that happens.19:10
phlixi_(i just have a congstar card in my jp1301 at the moment, which means, no LTE at all^)19:11
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attahSeems wikipedia is misinformed with regard to the bands.. definitely no LTE800 on AF19:29
attahSQUelcher: yep, annoying.. usually takes a reboot for me after having even opened just about any camera-enabled android app (there is a TJC on it)19:30
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