#jollamobile log for Monday, 2017-03-27

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MoritzJTHas the default sshd_config changed again with the latest SFOS release?02:11
MoritzJTI reset it and cannot set it up to allow nemo and root login via password02:11
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EyaAjolla )01!@ )0h07:19
EyaAJolla 2 online07:20
EyaAcoming07:20
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EyaA)0h07:27
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Yanielwhere?07:35
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EyaAR&D07:35
EyaAspecing07:36
EyaAbeta testing07:36
Yanielcool07:36
LarstiQEyaA: eh?07:36
EyaAsample markup07:37
EyaAspread the word07:38
EyaAmake it so07:38
EyaAshout it so07:38
EyaAJolla07:38
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EyaA)01!@07:40
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Nicd-EyaA: stop lying07:48
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EyaA)oh07:48
Nicd-also stop typing like that07:48
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warfarebugzy: 2709:38
warfarewhoops.09:38
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MMoriSo all lies whqt EyaA said?09:40
MMori*what09:40
LarstiQMMori: let's phrase it this way, I'm not aware of us doing anything called 'Jolla 2'09:41
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ppI'd rather see the xperia port, honestly.09:50
LarstiQthat _is_ something we're doing09:51
coderusMMori: eyaa is just a crazy jolla fan :D09:51
HelleI am the only weird one who is more looking for cheap tablets that can run SailfishOS :)09:51
Hellebut I'm in touch with a company that might be able to get me both cheap tablets and the Android sources that go with them, so I stand a chance09:52
pppreferably such that I can choose to spend 200-400e on the hardware (vs. 150e for something that is not much faster than the jp1)09:53
ppFinally I'm at least using the tablet! Well, my kid is :-)09:54
HelleI wish I had the Jolla tablet, but eh09:55
Helleit's one of the things Android is acceptable with, tablets, because the only default app I end up using is the browser09:55
Hellewhile on a phone you, due to integration, need to way more use the supplied apps09:55
ppThe display is good! But it's also always out of battery.09:55
Hellebut I have a home automation project where a tablet running SailfishOS would be comfortable for09:56
ppnot sure what's happening there, could be android apps & intel inside...09:57
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r0kk3rzHelle: if you dont care too much about all the hardware features it should be easy to get the display up and running10:08
r0kk3rzand wifi10:08
Heller0kk3rz: exactly the plan10:10
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MMoriLarstiQ and coderus, thanks for confirming10:18
Heller0kk3rz: but the issue with many cheap Android tablets is that you absolutely stand no chance for even obtaining the GPL obligatory source10:19
Helleso I had to throw a few e-mails around10:19
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LarstiQor that the source is actually GPL compatible10:20
Helleexactly10:20
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r0kk3rzHelle: well you might get something that looks like sources, but they dont compile or work :D10:20
Helleso I had to find a cheap one, with a small enough EU importer that still actually cared10:20
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Helle(the small enough importer is that they would otherwise just ignore me)10:21
ppyou could maybe find a "cyber secure android tablet"  market if you found a good one :-)10:23
Hellepp: given that I am not particularly going for high performance....10:24
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ppso you won't need chinese (or nvidia) binary blobs :-)10:25
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M4rtinKthe Jolla Tablet is really nice10:27
M4rtinKbut it's power management unfortunately rather sucks10:28
Hellerub it in :P10:28
M4rtinKI wonder if it's intrinsic to the hardware10:28
HelleM4rtinK: having seen other Intel tablets, it is atleast part way....10:28
M4rtinKor if it is something that could have been fixed if things actually went as planned10:29
HelleM4rtinK: I think it's a mix of factors10:29
M4rtinK& Jolla people would be more likely to fix hardware adaptation bugs10:29
M4rtinKcould be10:29
M4rtinKbut still can say Sailfish OS works really well on the tablet form factor10:30
M4rtinKso hopefully more tablets are supported in the future10:30
HelleM4rtinK: yeah, but I have tinkered with a ton of stuff on tablets and uh, tablet OS is actually an easier challenge10:30
M4rtinKit's not like that Jolla Tablet itself has many exclusive features10:30
Helleespecially as Android's UI on tablets has been getting worse.....10:30
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Hellebecause they are unifying their UI, while tablets, especially larger ones, need some UI tweaks10:31
ppprobably should poke around the tablet a bit, it might even be something trivial10:31
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M4rtinKdisabling wifi seems to help10:31
ppok, so bad wifi driver :-)10:31
ppor maybe wifi driver doesn't enable power save mode10:32
M4rtinKactive power usage seems OK10:32
M4rtinKbut idle power usage seems to be horrendous10:32
M4rtinKyou basically have to plug it in once a day10:32
M4rtinKotherwise it would be discharged when you pick it up after a day or two10:33
HelleM4rtinK: aah, sounds like the old Nokia vs Google discussion on power saving10:33
M4rtinKwell, Sailfish OS uses wakelocks these days10:33
HelleM4rtinK: yes, but only where necessary10:33
M4rtinKso it should just freeze things hard, like Android10:33
Helleit still does laptop style powersaving where the hardware supports it10:33
Hellewakelocks are a headache for developers....10:34
M4rtinKthey are10:34
M4rtinK& they are used AFAIK10:34
HelleI have an app that uses multicast, yeah, good luck on Android....10:34
Helleand the reason why that is a "good luck" is because Android can't selectively keep enough of the system alive to deal with multicast10:35
M4rtinKyou have to prevent your app from being frozen10:35
M4rtinKon Sailfish OS10:35
M4rtinKat least on the Jolla phones (1/C)10:35
HelleM4rtinK: that actually isn't the issue, the problem on Android is that it basically kills the wifi, SailfishOS doesn't do that if you have a multicast listener open10:35
M4rtinKhad to do that in modRana for track recording10:35
M4rtinKoh, right10:36
M4rtinKit's true that for example Jabber works10:36
M4rtinKyeah, that could be difference10:36
Helleso SailfishOS goes to sleep, except for the stuff needed to make multicast work, a selectivity that Android cannot do10:36
M4rtinKinteresting10:36
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Helleand Google's answer is "use our push functionality, that does stay availible"10:37
M4rtinKwell, I would at least like the Tablet to survive 2-3 days in idle with some charge remaining though ;-)10:37
Hellewhich isn't /quite/ true, it only stays fully availible on GSM enabled devices (using OOB signaling on the baseband....) on wifi only devices, it just wakes up and polls the Google services for push notifications every so often10:37
M4rtinKthat can still help10:38
Helleand ofcourse, I am not going to rely on a Google server....10:38
M4rtinKby batching the stuff10:38
HelleM4rtinK: yep, that still helps, that is true, but it's undesirable from a independence and portability PoV10:38
M4rtinKcertainly10:39
HelleDoesn't help that it means it needs Play Services then10:40
Hellewhich uh, are both closed source and not on all devices10:40
M4rtinKVendor lock-in! :D10:41
Helleexactly, so not doing that, instead, on Android I draw more power and use some tricks with time and wakeups alarms to still sleep part of the time10:41
Hellebut on SailfishOS, on both the Jolla 1 and C, multicast just works and does exactly what you expect10:42
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M4rtinKit's nice when one can skip the embedded/Android hacks for one10:46
M4rtinKthe horrendous amount of hacks that it needed to run Python/Qt5 apps on Android...10:46
HelleM4rtinK: yes, I am doing that one aswell.....10:47
HelleI still need to figure out a clean build enviroment setup for it10:48
Hellecurrent one is duct-tape10:48
M4rtinKhttps://pyotherside.readthedocs.io/en/latest/#building-for-android10:50
M4rtinKare you also using PyOtherSide ? :)10:50
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M4rtinK(note of a statically compiled Python 3 and other things are compiled into a QML Plugin :) )10:51
HelleM4rtinK: yes10:52
M4rtinKHelle: cool! :)10:52
M4rtinKBTW, I'm trying to get PyOtherSide updated on Sailfish OS10:53
HelleBeen tempted to move the whole mess into QML Javascript though because of the build setup being a bit messy10:53
M4rtinKhttps://git.merproject.org/mer-core/pyotherside/merge_requests/210:53
Hellebut eeeh, too many libs10:53
M4rtinKusing Python makes it possible to keep some sanity :)10:54
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HelleM4rtinK: eeeh, I am primarily using it as there where pre-existing libraries for some stuff that I wanted to do in Python10:54
Hellewhile there where none in any sane form of Javascript10:55
Hellenor in C++10:55
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M4rtinKyeah, there are tons of Python libraries! :)11:02
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AL13Ni would like the xhr to be updated... it would make me use less python11:29
AL13Nnext to that, i'd like some File IO (possibly via dbus), but that's not so easy11:29
coderusAL13N: let me tell you can use Qt11:31
AL13NQt IO via QML ?11:32
M4rtinKAL13N: BTW, modRana 0.54.5 can set opacity for routes (and tracklogs & the logging trace) :)11:33
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AL13NM4rtinK: i read the changelog, i think it fixes the opacity problem i had in last version11:34
AL13Nah, you mean the routs11:34
coderusAL13N: you can write qml extensions plugins11:34
AL13Ncoderus: yes, i can do that, bit of work though11:34
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coderusalso you can try Mer.Cutes11:35
coderushttps://git.merproject.org/mer-core/cutes/11:35
AL13NM4rtinK: where is the setting to set opacity for the routes? i'm looking at the UI part11:36
M4rtinKOptions->Navigation11:36
M4rtinKBTW, 0.54.5 has yet to clear QA in Store11:36
M4rtinKbut is already live on OpenRepos11:36
AL13Nah, i'll wait another day then11:37
M4rtinKand indeed, layer opacity should also be fixed :)11:37
AL13NM4rtinK: did you ever get that bug fixed where scaling did a wrong offset on the calculated route?11:37
M4rtinKhmm11:37
M4rtinKmap scaling ?11:37
AL13Ndo a route and then zoom in or out11:37
AL13Nthe route is being offsetted, until you move your map around11:38
AL13NM4rtinK: i don't mind it, because then i could see through the route to the traffic overlay :-)11:38
AL13Nit was my trick11:38
M4rtinKlol11:39
M4rtinKseems to be fixed11:39
AL13Ni'll test and see if i still have it11:39
M4rtinKthere have been a lot of changes/fixes to both route rendering & map rendering on 0.54.x11:39
M4rtinKthanks! :)11:39
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M4rtinKI guess it would be useful to render some layers on top of the route11:40
AL13Ncoderus: thx for the hints, btw11:40
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AL13Nrender layers on Top of the route?11:40
M4rtinKbut I'm not sure how hard that would be ATM11:40
M4rtinKyeah11:40
AL13Nlike?11:40
M4rtinKthey can also be transparent11:40
AL13Nlike labeled route info?11:40
M4rtinKsay you put the route with opacity 100%11:40
M4rtinKat the bottom11:41
AL13Nright11:41
M4rtinKand the map with opacity 50% on top11:41
M4rtinKor just traffic overlay, etc.11:41
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M4rtinKmaybe too complicated though11:41
AL13Nbut, wouldn't the route be at the top?11:41
AL13Ni can't see the benefits11:41
M4rtinKit might improve the visibility in some case11:42
M4rtinKbut indeed probably too much work for that :)11:42
M4rtinKtransparent route should work as well :)11:42
M4rtinKI guess I should rather make it possible to tweak route width & color :)11:42
AL13Nthat would be more useful :-)11:43
AL13NM4rtinK: also, like a gradient?11:43
AL13N:-)11:43
AL13Nj/k11:43
AL13Nyou could do the hot/cold game, have gradient from UV --> IR :-)11:44
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AL13NM4rtinK: i guess after route width + color, mostly usefull would be multiple destinations, but probably not that easy11:45
AL13N(each in a diff color)11:45
AL13Nand then alternatives11:46
AL13Nand autochanging route from current position11:46
AL13Netc...11:46
AL13N*cough*11:46
AL13Nwell, back to work11:47
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M4rtinKmultiple destinations ?11:50
M4rtinKthat's just multiple routes, right ? :)11:50
M4rtinKI'm thinking about showing route variants (from multiple routers, etc.)11:51
M4rtinKalso waypoints the route should go through11:51
M4rtinKas for rerouting11:51
M4rtinKthe code for that is already there11:51
M4rtinKbut it needs a turn-by-turn navigation UI11:52
M4rtinKto make sense11:52
M4rtinKbut I do certainly plan to do that :)11:52
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AL13NM4rtinK: i don't really want a turn-by-turn navigation; but i want the current shown route to be shrinked from the current position; and if i'm going the wrong way(on purpose) that it triggers a recalc12:21
AL13Nmultiple destinations means just go to A and then to B and then to C, etc...12:22
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: waypoints sounds useful12:23
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LarstiQHelle: does https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2017/03/updates-in-g-suite-to-streamline-hangouts-and-gmail.html affect you then?12:29
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LarstiQshutting down google talk servers12:30
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LarstiQor hmm12:30
M4rtinKAL13N: that concept of multiple destinations sounds like waypoints to me :)12:33
AL13Ni guess it does12:33
M4rtinKor possibly multiple routes concatenated :)12:33
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AL13Ndepends on how you look at it12:33
M4rtinKyeah :)12:34
M4rtinKthinking about it12:34
AL13Nalso one very very tricky concept is estimated travel time12:34
AL13Ndepending on factors12:34
M4rtinKI might be able to enable the rerouting code even before having the full tbt UI12:34
M4rtinKwill just have to put in in the current UI somehow :)12:35
AL13Nrerouting code is imho more usefull then waypoints12:35
M4rtinKor just do a very simple "navigation" UI12:35
M4rtinKa "navigate" button12:35
M4rtinKthat starts that12:35
M4rtinKand some way to quit it12:36
M4rtinKand it just does rerouting for now12:36
M4rtinKas I really need to say "navigate me now"12:36
M4rtinKtriggering rerouting without that could be wrong12:36
M4rtinKthey could just be checking arbitrary routes somewhere12:37
M4rtinKwill have to think about it :)12:37
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: surely it would only need to reroute if you're choosing from 'my location to X' and you move off the path?12:40
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M4rtinKr0kk3rz: yeah, I guess that could work for now :)12:45
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AL13Nr0kk3rz: that was my thinking13:14
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HelleLarstiQ: no, the whole out of band push stuff (which I ended up using as I didn't want to depend on Play Services for legal reasons anyway) is a weird thing where Google, carriers and phone manufacturers allow Google to send push messages OOB to the baseband, which than wakes up the rest of the phone14:56
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LarstiQHelle: oho15:06
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GyrosGeierhi16:03
LarstiQhei Simon!16:03
GyrosGeier\o/16:04
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GyrosGeierlong time no see16:04
* LarstiQ nods16:04
* GyrosGeier is going to be at Revision party16:04
LarstiQsince I moved to Finland it's harder to attend all the events16:04
GyrosGeierah16:05
GyrosGeierthere was the Primitive 20 years anniversary16:05
SQUelcherGyrosGeier!16:05
GyrosGeierhehe16:06
GyrosGeiereveryone is here16:06
GyrosGeierand all I wanted was a hint what phone to get16:06
GyrosGeierI dropped my 6230i onto someone's foot, and besides causing them pain, it also loosened one of the loudspeakers, so the ringtone is no longer loud enough16:07
GyrosGeierand I got to play with a Jolla phone for a few minutes, and was wondering where to get one16:08
LarstiQGyrosGeier: we don't have any phones for sale atm, so it's either running a port, getting something secondhand or waiting (Sony Xperia X I'd say then)16:09
LarstiQGyrosGeier: https://together.jolla.com/question/136143/wiki-available-devices-running-sailfish-os/16:09
LarstiQGyrosGeier: or well, maybe you can still buy an Aqua Fish16:10
GyrosGeiermmh16:15
M4rtinKIIRC someone in Switzerland got 50 Aquafishes16:16
M4rtinKand has been selling them with a markup16:17
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SQUelcheraquafish is rubbish in most european as it doesn't support lte800.. :/16:26
M4rtinKwell, yeah16:31
M4rtinKbut the only thing you can really buy *right now*16:32
GyrosGeierhm16:32
M4rtinKother than that really looking forward to an Xperia16:32
* GyrosGeier is with Telekom16:32
GyrosGeierso 800MHz is kind of important16:32
* GyrosGeier checks16:32
SQUelcherGyrosGeier: 800MHz is important with all carriers in Germany16:32
^7heoyea16:32
^7heoGyrosGeier: why don't you simply get a fairphone and install Sailfish on it?16:33
M4rtinKjust had my Jolla C get stuck - the notification LED was on, but I could not make the device unblank the screen16:33
M4rtinKknocking or pressing the power button did nothing16:33
M4rtinKhad to reinsert the battery16:33
SQUelcherI've got a Jolla 1 and a Jolla C :>16:33
M4rtinKIt started up but then it was of course almost discharged16:33
M4rtinKhad this happen a couple of times already unfortunately16:34
M4rtinKwhich means I can't really depend on my Jolla C to be always available, so it can't be used as an alarm clock for example16:34
M4rtinKhad it get stuck & discharge overnight already a couple times16:35
M4rtinKso I really hope the Xperias will be more solid in this regard :)16:35
GyrosGeierat shop.fairphone.com I can only preorder the FP216:36
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: should be with a bit of manufacturer support16:36
r0kk3rzi got the idea that the support intex gave was probably limited16:36
M4rtinKI guess better than nothing at that time16:37
M4rtinKimagine there would have been no Jolla C & Aquafish16:37
LarstiQGyrosGeier: do I recall correctly you're in the south?16:37
M4rtinKI think we would be much worse off16:37
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GyrosGeierLarstiQ, Hamburg now16:39
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: i dunno, things are still fairly bad :)16:39
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M4rtinKr0kk3rz: well, yeah but at least some things are happening :)16:43
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phlixi_ooth i use congstar and coverage is fine for me (telekom in GER, but from reseller without LTE). so i guess for some people (like me) it doesnt matter whether lte800 is supported or not :-)17:02
phlixi_obut whatever.. gn8 :-)17:02
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pketoM4rtinK: are you on early access 2.1.0.10 and using bluetooth? that might explain the freeze17:03
M4rtinKpketo: I'm on 2.1.0.1017:04
M4rtinKpketo: but Bluetooth seem to be off17:04
M4rtinKI've certainly not been using it at that time17:04
pketook, then it is probably something else17:04
M4rtinKI think I might have confirmed an alarm a while before17:05
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M4rtinKand then there might have been a new message notification a while after (Russian Jabber spam, yay! :P)17:05
pketothough you don't need to be "using" the bluetooth, just having it on and some paired devices is enough17:06
M4rtinKand the notification led was still on17:06
M4rtinKwhen I noticed it's hot & not reacting17:06
M4rtinKso I wonder if notifications can trigger something that get's it stuck ?17:07
M4rtinKin any case I've been getting this since day one unfortunately17:07
M4rtinKat random times - even on charger! :)17:07
pketonot that I know of, the bug that slipped in .10 was in the bluetooth status indicator17:07
M4rtinKI let my Jolla C charge over night and it was OFF in the morning and almost discharged17:08
M4rtinKthe quick status indicator shows off17:08
M4rtinKas do Settings - Bluetooth section17:08
M4rtinKso probably indeed something else17:08
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