#jollamobile log for Tuesday, 2018-09-04

*** leinir_ is now known as leinir06:50
*** b_lindeijer is now known as bjorn09:48
akaWolfIIUC there are two images: official and community, right?12:44
malfor which device?12:44
akaWolfxperia x12:45
malnot sure if people maintain the community port or not12:46
akaWolfso updates only works with official?12:47
mallooks like not very much maintained, but should be easy to fix12:50
akaWolfthere is man: https://jolla.com/sailfishx-linux-instructions/12:53
akaWolfwhich reference SailfishOS-HardwareAdaptationDevelopmentKit-2.2.0.2.pdf12:54
akaWolfwhich image I get after building it?12:54
r0kk3rzcommunity12:55
akaWolfcan I add repos with updates with that image?12:55
r0kk3rzif you want the support from jolla, just buy the licence12:56
akaWolfI trying to understand what I need to try SFOS, which phone. with the respect that I can develop something for it in the future.12:58
akaWolfI'm*12:58
akaWolfcan I build official image if I had license?12:59
r0kk3rzmaybe, i dont think theres any major difference13:00
r0kk3rzall the licenced stuff is handled on first boot anyway13:01
akaWolfwhat is the difference between community and official image?13:12
akaWolfCurrent availability: EU, Norway, Switzerland13:13
malakaWolf: communnity image won't have certain things like android app support and some other things like that13:17
akaWolfmal: so I can build image like here: https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Sailfish_X_Build_and_Flash , then add repo with updates and it will work?13:43
malI don't know if it's possible to use official adaptation repos without buying the image, might not be13:45
malakaWolf: so what exactly do you need from the image?13:47
akaWolfability to build image with dalvik, etc13:48
akaWolfas official13:49
malis there a reason you wouldn't just buy the image? you cannot get alien dalvik legally on the device without buying an image13:51
akaWolfis there Open Source Operating System or not? :)13:52
akaWolfI want to have ability to build the same image (having or not license doesnt matter) at least with blobs13:53
malyou confusing the proprietary components and the sailfish image13:53
tadzikyeah, dalvik is not part of the open source OS13:54
malyou can build the normal community image but it won't have the android app support and a couple of other packages which require a license13:54
akaWolfbut can I build community image, add repos (there are http auth) with licensed user and get alien dalvik from repos?13:55
malmight in theory be possible but I don't really the point13:56
mal*really see the point13:57
akaWolfI want to use image with builded at my machine with Alien Dalvik13:58
akaWolf-with13:58
akaWolfso I want to build my system13:59
akaWolfand have Android apps support13:59
malI have never tried to do that, it might be possible14:08
malbut updates wouldn't be as automatic as in official image14:08
akaWolfwhy? is there separate app for update or what? if app, it can be installed from the same repos14:11
malthe updater checks for updates only from official repos somehow and if you have those then it will become essentially the official image after update so the whole point of self-built image is quite lost14:14
malcommunity images are currently updated via commandline using a couple of commands14:15
r0kk3rztbh you dont really build most of the image anyway, its all packages downloaded from obs14:16
malyes, only a limited number of packages are built during porting, all packages cannot even be built as there are certain UI parts that are closed14:17
akaWolfthat's all quite intricately :)14:17
mal?14:17
akaWolfI mean all proprietary things always make world more complicated14:18
akaWolfmuch more14:18
r0kk3rzthis is not so much proprietary things14:31
r0kk3rzmore 'building entire operating systems from source is impractical'14:31
akaWolfr0kk3rz: now I develop device at AOSP, so it doesnt look so impractical for me :)14:54
akaWolfbut regarding our case I think that at least users should have such ability14:54
akaWolfif it's not so, it's waste of my time14:55
r0kk3rzthe sources are available, but theres no big mega 'build it all' script14:55
akaWolfthere are no even clear explanation of which components are proprietary and which -- doesn't14:56
akaWolfonly difficulties like «Sorry, not available in your country»14:57
r0kk3rzyeah that does suck15:00
rigodocumentation is not the strongest point of jolla :-/15:37
rigoyou'll have to search in TMO or TJC to find conversations that contain the info, but it should be compiled somewhere as a digest15:39
r0kk3rzgeneral rule is the core is open (mer) things with nemo or sailfish in the name are also open, things with 'jolla' in the name arent15:41
rigoas soon as there are third parties with nice functionality (aliendalvik) that people want to have, modularization is a must15:54
rigoI know I trigger a lot of trolls by saying that openness also needs to make economic sense and not render devs poorer than they should be.15:55
rigoand sometimes openness plus selling service is better. And sometimes selling object code is better15:56
r0kk3rzfor the most part what jolla sells these days is consultancy services15:56
akaWolfwhy then they sell firmware is an mistery for me16:01
akaWolflet me write correctly: they sell firmware of his OS, which uses 0% people in world16:02
akaWolfnot the best way to gain popularity16:02
kimmolithat is marketing to gain that 0%16:02
r0kk3rzmost of the cost would be eaten up in third-party licences16:06
r0kk3rzlike alien-dalvik, which you said you wanted16:06
akaWolfthey only have a chance to get some part of the market if and only if they will build quality enough free firmware images with android app support16:24
akaWolfofc need a lot investitions16:25
r0kk3rzi dont think you would get any market share with free images16:26
r0kk3rzmost people use what their phone came with16:27
r0kk3rzwhat was the peak market share of cyanogenmod?16:28
r0kk3rzprobably negligable16:28
JopeCM was relevant only in the most popular handsets anyway16:30
Jopeanything more obscure (sony?) and the support wasn't there16:30
Jopewhy swap to a different distro when your stuff stops working..16:30
tadzikheh, some of us here probably swapped android for sailfish x even though a lot of stuff stopped working :P But yeah, for the general person there's no need16:40
tadzikand even for someone mildly privacy concerned it's a long shot16:40
tadzikmy sister is the kind of person who reads the terms of service of things, to the point that I had to replace windows on her laptop into ubuntu cos she wouldn't accept the things that windows 10 asked of her, and when looking for a phone she kept asking me if the one her mobile provider wanted to give her will work with "this cinnamon thing" (cyanogen)16:41
tadzikeventually the proper CM support wasn't there for either of the phones had to choose from, so she ends up running stock android16:42
Jopewell swapping to sailfish you're at least getting a different os16:45
Jopea working stock android -> an abandoned cyanogen mod release = hooray, now you ruined your phone but are leet hax0r16:46
Jopeso yeah, samsung users probably had good support16:46
Jopeand maybe some other popular devices16:46
JopeI tended to have unpopular devices so it was rather underwhelming. I spent enough years near phone r&d that I couldn't really care less for the beta experience any more..16:47
malfairphone 2 has 3 android versions available, fairphone os (aosp with google services), fairphone open os (aosp without google services) and lineageos, first two are officially supported by fairphone and lineageos is "official lineageos"16:48
maljust an example that many versions can coexist for and all still remain maintained16:49
Jopeyes, well done17:21
Jope:-)17:21
Jopeso this is the old linux in the 90s thing.. everything is supported / maintained if you have the right hardware17:21
tadzikhehe17:22
JopeI'm genuinely happy for those people who made the right choice in hardware (or used the time to purchase hardware that is supported)17:22
Jopebut if you have an android phone and someone raves on about alternative distros, then your mileage may vary a lot17:23
tadzikyeah17:23
Jopedamn I'm not typing all the words I'm thinking of, but hopefully the message comes across .. meh17:25
r0kk3rzJope: this is different, this is each android device is an ungodly house of cards so dont change anything17:28
Jopeyep, it is rather far from desktop computing :-D17:30
tadzikwoohoo, update!18:13
r0kk3rzwoo update18:21
tmynttinjust tried to update to 2.2.1, but got ”Sailfish os cannot be updated now. Try again later” message. Any tips?18:22
tadziktry again later  /me hides18:22
tiwakeheh18:23
tmynttintadzik: x) i knew that was coming for me18:23
tmynttinbut I want it NOW!18:24
tiwaketmynttin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Azz-6oT08c18:25
r0kk3rzthis has a lot of my updates, nice :)18:26
tmynttintiwake: :)18:26
r0kk3rzwoah, they actually added qmltypes to the qml plugins18:28
malr0kk3rz: what does qmltypes do?18:40
r0kk3rzautocomplete in qt creator18:40
malok18:41
tadzikoh jesus, working hours tracker is being obnoxious21:16
tadzik"started 16:00 and ended on 19:00? That's 3 hours. <accept> Today: 2 hours 59 minutes"21:16
tadzikafter 3 tries I even got it to show 2:60. 2 hours and 60 minutes21:17
tadzikuntil you click the entry, at which point it shows 2:59 again21:17

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