Thursday, 2022-07-07

ExTechOpGood morning everyone!06:57
poetasterGood morning!06:57
attahGood morning06:57
Solrac[m]Good Morning/Evening06:58
dcalisteHello !06:59
flypigGood morning!06:59
rainemakGood morning!06:59
flypigOkay, let's begin :)07:00
flypig#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 202207:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Jul  7 07:00:57 2022 UTC. The chair is flypig. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:00
flypig#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:01
flypigI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and nose wearing.07:01
flypig#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:01
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:01
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community07:01
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, sailor @ jolla07:01
Solrac[m]#info Carlos Orama, community07:01
poetaster#info poetaster (Mark), community07:01
attah#info Anton Thomasson, community07:01
Nico#info Nico, community07:01
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla07:03
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community07:03
flypigA nice community turn out today!07:03
fridlmue#info fridlmue, community07:04
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer07:04
flypigThe community have it at 7-3 today! It's great to have everyone here, and good to see we have at least one of our questioners too.07:06
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar - sailor @ Jolla07:06
poetasterAh, good company :)07:06
flypigPlease continue to add your info during the meeting if anyone was missed.07:07
flypigDo we have remote though?07:07
flypig#topic PulseAudio update (5 min -- asked by remote)07:07
*** sailbot changes topic to "PulseAudio update (5 min -- asked by remote) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:07
flypig#info <remote> I'd like to inquire into PulseAudio version bump.07:07
flypig#info <remote> Version 15 brings high quality codecs support for BT headphones.07:07
flypig#info <remote> Is it planned?07:07
flypigThis is our first question. Here's our prepared answer.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> For general information, the PulseAudio repo can be found here:07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> As can be seen there, we're currently on version 14.2, updated with the following commit.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> Although it's no guarantee of future timescales, historically we've updated to even versions, with a roughly 18 month cadence between updates.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> Theres no update planned per se now. It's highly likely that this will happen at some point.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> Unfortunately our Audio expert is on summer holiday, thus we could not get his opinion for the PulseAudio update.07:08
flypig#info <Jolla> We therefore propose that we come back to this topic during the next meeting in two weeks' time.07:08
flypigThat's the answer. Any comments/thoughts? Does returning to it sound okay?07:09
poetasterSounds good.07:09
NicoWhere there any thoughts of switching to pipewire? :D07:09
Solrac[m]When reading the question, I thought about Pipewire as well.07:10
rainemakWe did discuss switching to pipewire last year but that's much bigger effort07:10
NicoBut yeah, returning sounds okay :307:10
poetasterI'm still an alsa+jack guy :)07:11
flypigrainemak, that's useful info I think; I'll add it to the minutes07:11
flypig#info <rainemak>: We did discuss switching to pipewire last year but that's much bigger effort07:11
Nicorainemak, agreed. It is also still a bit crashy here, leaving me without audio after a week of runtime sometimes. But it has some nice audio routing stuff :307:11
NicoMaybe in 18 months...07:12
flypigremote seems to be concerned about Bluetooth audio codecs. Would Pipewire help with that?07:12
ThaodanI think creating a PR is never wrong to push things along07:12
attahThat is my impression... as should PA 1507:12
NicoYes, pipewire has those codecs too and better audio input handling too, afaik07:12
Nico(over bluetooth)07:13
flypig#info Both PulseAudio 15 and Pipewire would help with Bluetooth audio codec support.07:13
Thaodanpipewire is a whole different beast it would require to have new pipewire modules07:13
attahI'm afraid PulseAudio on Sailfish has much more than one commit on top of master...07:14
NicoWell, you can use a lot of pulseaudio client stuff on top of pipewire, not sure about modules though07:14
flypigattah, your point is that creating a PR isn't straightforward?07:14
NicoAnd it is probably long term where desktop linux will move to07:14
attahPrecisely - still worthwhile... just hard07:15
NicoBut there is certainly no rush07:15
attahThe info above sounded like it was only the one commit07:16
flypigattah, yes, sorry, that's poor communication from me I'm afraid.07:16
attahNo worries, good to have that cleared up07:16
Thaodanit's not just one commit but rebasign the current SailfishOS version can be still done.07:17
Thaodanpipewire would require porting all the routing and policy modules07:17
Thaodanjusa could say more07:17
Thaodan(by rebasing I meant rebasign sfos pa)07:18
flypigNot a small undertaking by the sounds of it.07:18
poetasterI don't see the demand?07:18
poetasterOther than broad scale abandonment of pulse....07:19
NicoWell, it has lower latency and better sound quality here than pulseaudio07:19
NicoAnd better sound routing07:19
NicoAnd better bluetooth audio support07:19
NicoI.e. patapon is unplayable on my desktop with pulse07:19
poetasteralsa + jack has both of those, but that doesn't make it appropriate.07:19
poetasterwhat is patapon?07:20
NicoWell, PW has the jack API implemented!07:20
Nicopatapon is a rythm game07:20
flypigGood discussion and useful info, but I let this run a bit over already. Anything to add to the minutes before we move on?07:21
poetasterSorry, my audio machines are stripped down for 24 channel (firewire, BOB) audio recording. I'm not a fan of pulse. just not sure the effort is called for now?07:21
NicoWell, maybe not, but it does everything slightly better than pulse07:21
NicoBut yeah, we can also discuss that next meeting :307:22
poetastercool. reading to do.07:22
flypigNico, having a dedicated Pipewire discussion would be interesting for sure.07:22
flypigLet's move on, otherwise poetaster won't get his question answered :)07:23
Solrac[m]Expanding on PW. While I think it may not see use in phones, or at least as commonly; I'd like to point out that because of the better routing, it can open more possibilities, such as midi devices and maybe multiple mics, granted an application could make use of these.07:23
Solrac[m]Oh my apologies07:23
flypigDon't apologise; that's good info to have.07:23
flypigWe can return to PW in the General Topic at the end too.07:23
flypig#topic RGB channel swapping in Canvas, Label, etc. (10 -- asked by poetaster)07:23
*** sailbot changes topic to "RGB channel swapping in Canvas, Label, etc. (10 -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:23
dcalisteI may mention for records also.07:23
dcalisteOops sorry a bit too late…07:24
sailbotRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f23b9c24b00>07:24
flypig#topic RGB channel swapping in Canvas, Label, etc. (10 -- asked by poetaster)07:24
*** sailbot changes topic to "RGB channel swapping in Canvas, Label, etc. (10 -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:24
flypigHopefully that will work...07:24
flypig#info <poetaster> drawImage of Canvas renders images channel swapped.07:24
flypig#info <poetaster> To expand see the Stopmotion code which applies the same fixes I applied to "Paint".07:24
flypig#info <poetaster> Beside the RBG<->GBR swapping it also fixes the issue that image meta data (orientation for Portrait photos) is not being used when loading a url directly to Canvas.07:25
flypig#info See also:07:25
flypigI had trouble summarising your question a bit poetaster; hopefully that makes sense. Here's our prepared answer.07:25
flypig#info <Jolla> Thank you poetaster for raising this, and also to gabrielg, Edz, attah and others in the forum for all your excellent detective work. This made understanding the problem a lot easier.07:26
flypig#info <Jolla> We explored this a bit more internally and think we've got a solution. The qtscenegraph-adaptation package is used to store large images in hardware textures to speed up rendering.07:26
poetasterThank you. I suck. Too many digressions.07:26
flypig#info <Jolla> On hybris devices, when such an image needs to be accessed by the CPU it's done via the HybrisTextureFactory::image() function, in which eglHybrisLockNativeBuffer locks the buffer and provides a pointer to data in the buffer's native format.07:26
flypig#info <Jolla> This can be either hybris's BGRA_8888 or RGBA_8888 and in this case it's hybris's RGBA_8888 format. Then the buffer is copied into a QImage().07:26
flypig#info <Jolla> But when we copy the data out we only specify Qt formats which are equivalent to hybris's BGRA_8888 order, consequently RGBA_8888 images come out with their colours swapped. The following change should fix it:07:26
flypig#info <Jolla> However, we've not had a chance to test this across devices or use cases.07:26
flypig#info <Jolla> Before merging the change, it would be especially helpful if members of the community could test the change with various apps on different devices.07:27
flypig#info <Jolla> Testing it requires building and deploying the fixed branch of the qtscenegraph-adaptation package. Building can be performed using the application SDK.07:27
NicoWow, that is nice!07:27
flypigNo worries poetaster, the question made sense, just a little hard to summarise.07:27
dcalisteGreat investigations from both sides.07:27
flypigYes, indeed, as I understand it the info everyone provided on the forum was a big help.07:28
flypigWould anyone be able to test it?07:29
poetasterI'll try.07:29
flypigSuper, thank you poetaster. It would be a great help.07:29
flypigIf you run into any trouble getting the package built, message me (but I tested it out, and didn't hit anything unusual).07:29
dcalisteTesting compilation at the moment in application SDK, everything run fine.07:31
flypigpoetaster, you have two apps with this issue, is that correct?07:31
flypigGreat, thanks for checking dcaliste.07:31
flypigPaint, Stopmotion and... ?07:32
poetasterand tidings, presumably07:32
flypigAh yes, Tidings.07:32
flypigWhat is the status of Stopmotion?07:33
poetasterIt's functional but still a 'raw' prototype. I did party tricks with it last weekend. people said 'ooh!'07:33
flypigI haven't had a chance to look at it, but am excited to see the results, I have to say.07:34
attahthat's the sound of success07:34
flypigYeah, good to hear you got a good reception :)07:34
poetastera lot of ideas/inspiration from several sources.07:34
flypigThat's the best way :)07:35
poetasterdcaliste, you've finished all the testing I presume :)07:35
flypigHaha :)07:35
flypigWe're hitting time on this. Anything anyone would like added to the minutes before we move on?07:36
poetasterjust thanks!07:36
attahindeed, nicely done07:36
flypig#info poetaster expressed his appreciation :)07:37
dcalisteI'm trying it on device. As far as I remember the issue was visible in tidings. But I've a slow data mobile connection at the moment. I need to get some example of RSS flux were it failed.07:37
NicoThat's a rare achievement!07:37
flypigI'll pass the thanks on too.07:37
flypigdcaliste, we'll move to the next question, but let us know if you find out.07:37
flypig#topic Community Bug Coordination Team summary (5 min -- asked by pherjung)07:38
*** sailbot changes topic to "Community Bug Coordination Team summary (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:38
flypig#info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports07:38
flypigThis is our usual Community But Coordination Team summary.07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> As a result of their work, we now have:07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> - 10 new high quality bug reports recorded internally and tagged as "tracked".07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> - 5 topics moved into different categories as they weren't really bugs.07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> - 4 bug reports marked as "pending" more info.07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> - 2 bug reports tagged as "fixed".07:38
flypig#info <Jolla> - 2 bug reports related to RBG-BBR swapping which hopefully we'll be able to mark as "fixed" soon.07:38
flypigAre there any CBCT members here?07:39
NicoWell, in theory I am in the same chat group, but not really active rn ;p07:39
NicoSo no idea what there would be to add, apart from the usual thank you :307:40
flypigYes, thank you from me too. I'm continually impressed, especially with how the team tests the bugs and writes up notes for how to reproduce them.07:40
NicoI am too :D07:41
poetasterKudos from me too. I find it increases signal to noise a great deal.07:42
flypigOkay, we shall move on then.07:43
flypig#topic Open Pull Requests (5 min -- asked by rainemak)07:43
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open Pull Requests (5 min -- asked by rainemak) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:43
flypig#info <flypig> During the last meeting we agreed to have a section on open Pull Requests, to help prioritise our work in reviewing them. What did we get?07:43
flypig#info <Jolla> We didn't get any submitted before the meeting, but everyone is welcome to raise interesting PRs for us to consider now.07:43
flypigSo, this is a chance to raise any lingering PRs that aren't getting the attention they deserve.07:44
NicoHeh, I didn't open any, because I was busy with work and other stuff, I'll get there some day!07:44
flypigThere is, of course, no obligation :) But for future reference, you can propose others' PRs as well.07:45
ThaodanMost PRs open right now are either wip or not so important to mention I think.07:45
flypigOkay, that's useful to know. Thanks Thaodan.07:46
NicoYeah, I haven't seen any complaints about lack of review the last 2 weeks .-.07:46
flypigThis is good.07:46
NicoOh, maybe I can dig one up07:46
ThaodanSome are great as usual but are discussed elsewhere e.g. dcaliste07:46
Nicodcaliste has a few browser PRs:
dcalisteIndeed, pvuorela thanksfully took some of his time before summer vacations to give feedback on calendar stack ones. Thanks to him.07:47
ThaodanI wouldn't mind more testers on:
flypig#info dcaliste has a couple of browser PRs that have been opened for some time.07:48
ThaodanI like dcaliste's PRs. The press and hold scheme sounds like good idea.07:49
flypig#info Thaodan requested testing on one of his PRs.07:49
NicoI guess those might need feedback from whoever is responsible for design stuff07:49
ThaodanI almost tried to do this out of instinct.07:49
NicoThaodan, same07:49
dcalisteNico, about 959, I've used it for a while and while I like the consistency, I find it a bit cumbersome to have to long-press and them tap to close one tab, which is the usual action I'm doing.07:49
flypigrainemak, do you have any comment on dcaliste's browser PRs?07:50
dcalisteThe target to close is easier to get though. But I'm not totally convinced of its advantages.07:50
dcalisteIt requires more discussion and feedback from people who tried it I think.07:50
Nicodcaliste, sounds reasonable, maybe moing the close button to below the tab cards is bettter?07:50
NicoAnd not doing the long press07:51
Nico(I mostly close my currently open tab using the menu action instead of the tab view)07:51
dcalisteNico, I should change my habit for the menu then ;)07:52
attahI think long-press is a good pattern here, that would allow slightly bigger buttons too... the current one is hard to hit07:52
NicoI think I'll just try out the long press patch for a bit07:52
dcalisteJust for records, one way to see all opened PR on SailfishOS is
thilo[m]Thaodan: how do we know if the pr is working?07:53
flypig"No results matched your search."?07:53
dcalisteflypig, maybe you need to get logged in ? Strange.07:54
Thaodanthilo[m]:  nothing breaks and for affected devices the camera app doesn't freeze07:54
ExTechOpJust tried that URL when not logged in, it gave the 404 page but allowed me to log in and then showed the PRs07:54
thilo[m]Sounds doable ;)07:55
flypigI think it's an encoding thing. The following works for me:
pherjungI'm bit a late :)07:56
flypigNice to have you here pherjung.07:56
Solrac[m] Welcome~07:57
flypig#info <dcaliste> Just for records, one way to see all opened PR on SailfishOS is07:57
NicoWe already did the bug roundup, did you have anything to add?07:57
flypigLet me move us on to General discussion; thanks for the info about the PRs.07:57
flypig#topic General discussion (20 min)07:57
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"07:57
pherjungI have an question. Could it be possible to do the same as PR review, but with bug reports? There are some I have no idea how to reproduce them07:57
pherjungIdea is to pick one and Jolla give some hint where we, the community, should look07:58
flypigIt sounds like a nice idea to me. Did you have a bug in mind for an example?07:59
pherjungNot now, but we can pick up one for the next meeting just as test07:59
ExTechOpThere's the very-long-standing issue of failing network switching with Android applications, here's one leaf of the tree:
ExTechOpThis hits me pretty much on a daily basis (home wifi / phone network while going to work / work wifi), is anyone working seriously on this?07:59
rainemakI could try to give a look & comment to dcaliste's browser PRs during this week.08:00
attahAre there any news on the ownership and "super secret engineering effort" front?08:01
pherjungthis one is already tracked, no?08:01
NicoOh, what SSEE? I never heard of that, sounds interesting!08:01
flypigpherjung, I think that'd be a great idea. Could you flag it in advance in your bug roundup?08:01
pherjungI'll do :)08:02
flypigGreat, thank you. If it works, we can then make it a regular thing.08:02
flypigrainemak, I will add your comment to the minutes, I think that's nice to hear :)08:03
flypig#info <rainemak> I could try to give a look & comment to dcaliste's browser PRs during this week.08:03
rainemak#info all Sailfish OS PRs: click the "Pull requests" link at the header, enter "is:open is:pr org:sailfishos" to the search field, press enter08:04
flypigExTechOp, I know there has been a lot of work on it (and fixes) in the past, and my understanding is that work continues, but I'd have to check to make sure.08:04
flypig#info ExTechOp raised the issue of long-standing network issues with Android.08:05
ExTechOpAs I said, still there on a daily basis. Occasionally Utilities / Restart network helps, sometimes the only thing to do is to reboot the phone.08:05
flypigThanks rainemak, useful info.08:05
pherjungflypig: here an example:
pherjungcould be great for instance to enable some logs08:06
pherjungso we can find how to easily reproduce it08:07
NicoI know someone whose phone just doesn't connect to the mobile network at all after boot and needs toggling of the flightmode to connect...08:07
NicoI don't know if that was a bad flash or not yet though, but it worked at some point08:07
flypigSo the question, pherjung, is how to help find a way to reproduce the issue reliably?08:08
sledgesExTechOp: also try restarting App Support, as last resort before reboot08:08
dcalisteSorry got side tracked. Thank you rainemak.08:08
attahNo company news to share then?08:10
flypigpherjung, I would say that some of these don't have an easy answer unfortunately, but if you could add it for the next meeting, that would be great.08:11
Nicoattah, did you buy Jolla yet? :D08:11
attahi wish08:11
NicoNo news then...08:12
flypigattah, thanks for asking, but I think there's no additional news to share today.08:12
attahokay, thanks for info08:12
flypigDo please ask again though :)08:12
NicoDoes it smell like there might be news in the near future?08:12
attahcount on it08:12
pherjungand about engineering work?08:12
flypigAnything particular related to the engineering work?08:13
poetasterhaving installed scenegraph (hybristexture config), reboot? restart lipstick?08:13
attahSince we don't know what it is... it is hard to be specific.... but how is it going?08:14
pherjungwell, community news has been reduce to worg on engineering stuff. So we are curious which part08:14
flypigpoetaster, in my testing, just restarting the app was enough, but restart lipstick if you want it across the board.08:14
NicoI'm sure they are porting to qt6 atm, right?08:14
flypigpherjung, ah, yes, it's in relation to that. Thanks for clarifying.08:14
flypigOh, that's a bad sign.08:15
attahNico: that is what i choose to believe too :P08:15
poetasterCONFIG += plugin verbose dither eglgralloctexture  hybristexture ... no changes in app behaviour08:15
Nicoattah: With a secret we can dream of anything we want!08:16
flypigpoetaster, can you share a minimal working example of the problem? We used the one provided by Edz for testing, but maybe what you're seeing is something different.08:16
attahAnd you changed to the pr commit, not just downloaded it? (definitely not speaking from experience)08:18
flypigpherjung, attah, Nico, concerning engineering work, there's nothing specific to report, but if you want the situation expanded upon, I think best to ask a question for us to prepare an answer for in a future meeting.08:19
poetasteryup. But += could be wrong.08:19
NicoWell, I only heard about it just now!08:20
flypigpoetaster, you shouldn't need to make any changes to *your* project to have the fix, you should just need to install the updated qtscenegraph-adaptation package.08:20
flypigYes, sorry Nico, that's due to me following the conversation backwards poorly :)08:22
poetasteryou need to specify in the scenegraph pro which (hybristexture for instance) to build08:22
flypigpoetaster, okay, then I'm misunderstanding. Apologies.08:22
Nicoflypig, no worries. Just spill the beans to apologize! (That's how this works, right?) ;p08:22
attahi just did "sfdk build"08:23
flypigNico: :D08:23
malhey, a small comment about pulseaudio updating, it needs first moving to meson since autotools support was dropped in pulseaudio 15, this means changing the custom patches to work with meson, I have done that but no pull requests yet, might need some more testing first08:23
poetasterProject MESSAGE: Enable the above features by adding them to the qmake config, for instance:08:24
flypig#info <mal>  a small comment about pulseaudio updating, it needs first moving to meson since autotools support was dropped in pulseaudio 15, this means changing the custom patches to work with meson, I have done that but no pull requests yet, might need some more testing first08:24
NicoMhm, meson, yummy. So much nicer than autotools08:24
flypigThanks mal, nice info.08:24
flypigWe are hitting time for today. Anything else to add to the minutes before we wrap up?08:24
flypigAlright, final topic then.08:27
flypig#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 21st July 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-07-21T0700Z08:27
flypigOops, that was premature.08:27
sailbotRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x7f23b9be44e0>08:27
flypig#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)08:27
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 7th July 2022)"08:27
flypigProposing Thursday 21st July at 07:00am UTC08:27
Nico20 seconds to disagree, otherwise it is accepted? :D08:27
flypig... 10 ...08:28
flypigExcellent. Let's go with that then.08:28
poetastercolor fix works!08:28
flypig#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 21st July 2022 at 07:00am UTC: 2022-07-21T0700Z08:28
flypigpoetaster, fantastic! And just in time too :D08:28
poetasternow for orientation :)08:28
flypig#info <poetaster> color fix works!08:28
attahThanks for hosting08:29
NicoThanks everyone!08:29
flypigAnd thanks everyone for joining and for the great discussion.08:29
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Jul  7 08:29:17 2022 UTC.08:29
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 7th July 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:29
ExTechOpThanks, everyone!08:29
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 21st July 2022 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:32
sledges08:20 < Nico> Well, I only heard about it just now!08:57
sledgesNico: things are much more active than predicted here:
Nicofancy :309:02
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