| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o abr | 07:34 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o rainemak | 14:52 | |
| rainemak | Hello everybody! | 15:56 |
|---|---|---|
| rubdos[m] | Oh hi! | 15:56 |
| CLMA31[m] | Hello! | 15:57 |
| direc85[m] | Hello! | 15:57 |
| ViGe | Hi! | 15:57 |
| mini_coe[m] | Hello | 15:58 |
| rainemak | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025 | 16:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Oct 9 16:00:00 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 16:00 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/24948 | 16:00 |
| rainemak | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 16:00 |
| rainemak | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 16:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla | 16:00 |
| ExTechOp | #info Otto Makela, community | 16:00 |
| mal | #info mal, Jolla | 16:00 |
| rubdos[m] | #info Ruben -rubdos- De Smet, community | 16:00 |
| ViGe | #info Ville Nummela, community | 16:00 |
| CLMA31[m] | #info CLMA31, community | 16:00 |
| flypig | #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community | 16:00 |
| direc85[m] | #info Matti Viljanen, Jolla | 16:01 |
| Nico | #info Nico, community | 16:01 |
| legacychimera247 | #info 247, community member | 16:01 |
| rainemak | oh, nice amount of participants! | 16:01 |
| rainemak | very good | 16:01 |
| Keto | #info Pami Ketolainen, Jolla | 16:02 |
| rubdos[m] | Totally by accident. Virally couch bound today. | 16:02 |
| mini_coe[m] | #info Thorsten M., community | 16:02 |
| ViGe | I can't stay for long :( | 16:03 |
| rainemak | I'm having a bit flu or something, sore throat and almost deaf ear. Not stopping this thou. | 16:04 |
| rainemak | Good number of topics today. Please keep on asking. Kudos from multiple questions from CLMA31. I like this kind of activity. | 16:04 |
| rubdos[m] | very flu like here as well | 16:04 |
| rubdos[m] | The whole .eu I suppose. Ah well. | 16:04 |
| Nico | Yeah, pretty much everone here caught something | 16:05 |
| rainemak | Let's get started | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #topic Amount of supported devices (10 mins -- CLMA31) | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> I am too new here to have historical package and understand that | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> this topic might be unpopular. But anyway is this list up to | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> date: Supported Devices | Sailfish OS Documentation? If so has it | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> been considered that most of the devices could be moved to | 16:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Amount of supported devices (10 mins -- CLMA31) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:05 | |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> “Ceased support” category? I don’t know if in reality keeping so | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> many models supported causes any extra work for upkeep. But I | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> would guess it does, which is why I ask. Wouldn’t it make more | 16:05 |
| CLMA31[m] | I have been thinking I bomb too many questions lately and dont leave enough space for other questions 😅 | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> sense to focus only few models at the time and really fine tune | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> the user experience? Maybe it would make development like the | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> Perceived responsiveness of the UI easier and faster? | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #link https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/ | 16:05 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/perceived-responsiveness-of-the-ui/2499/82 | 16:05 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], it's good, no worry. I'll start filtering if there are too many | 16:05 |
| rainemak | filtering == moving to next meeting | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> This we already somewhat answered in some other context. We said | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> that we're not dropping older officially supported Sailfish OS | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> devices. Quite commonly it's the kernel that dictates the timing | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> of dropping older devices. We actually have a matrix of things to | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> support being it number of devices, kernel version and AppSupport | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> which is making it more difficult. | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> | 16:06 |
| CLMA31[m] | Good, I wouldn't mind | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> We have quite a wide community user base using in Xperia line | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> devices which is super good. You are reporting issues and using | 16:06 |
| rubdos[m] | CLMA31 FYI, Raine is here via the OFTC bridge, so emoji responses won't work for them :) | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> them. That's also part of way of doing things -- we want to | 16:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> support devices as long as it is feasible. | 16:06 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], I can open both :-) | 16:07 |
| * rubdos[m] checks participant list | 16:07 | |
| rainemak | There's quite is a great value of having multiple official supported ports along side with community ports | 16:09 |
| rainemak | There's is a great value of having multiple official supported ports along side with community ports | 16:09 |
| CLMA31[m] | I see the benefits of supporting multiple devices for a long period of time as from a user perspective. I don't like to buy a new phone every two years either. Also great that there are options for everyone. Just wondering could the limited resources be used more efficiently with little less supported devices? At least until financial situation gets better --> more resources | 16:10 |
| Keto | The list of supported devices looks a bit long, but basically what comes to supporting them the different variants of same model can be counted as one | 16:10 |
| rubdos[m] | Maybe worth noting that Jolla currently only actively does the C2 and two times two very alike Xperia 10 models afaik, so there's quite some "focus" in some sense I would say. | 16:10 |
| rainemak | Keto, thanks for adding that | 16:11 |
| mini_coe[m] | Should I buy Sony Xperia 10 III now? | 16:11 |
| CLMA31[m] | Keto: Definitely good thing to note. But there us also a lot of devices supported already more than 5years | 16:11 |
| ExTechOp | mini: | 16:11 |
| rainemak | 4 mins | 16:11 |
| ExTechOp | mini_coe If you can live without working echo cancellation, sure. | 16:11 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, I lived with 10 III for many years | 16:12 |
| ViGe | I still have 10 III as my daily driver | 16:12 |
| CLMA31[m] | rubdos[m]: If this would be the official stance, would it make version updates easier and accelerate the development? | 16:12 |
| ExTechOp | Same here | 16:12 |
| rainemak | one practical trick is use headphones with 10 III... for example if you have a meeting that you'd need to participate | 16:12 |
| CLMA31[m] | I am up for something else also. Just tried to think some ways that would accelerate the development or make it easier | 16:13 |
| mini_coe[m] | I have a Sony 10 II since some years. But it responses more and more slower. | 16:13 |
| ExTechOp | A nicer practical trick would be to actually have the echo cancellation which somehow(?!) works with Android | 16:13 |
| abr | Me too with the 10iii. Weirdly never had the echo problem myself. (sorry I'm late) | 16:13 |
| rubdos[m] | Oh I always forget about the XA series. Nevermind my statement. | 16:13 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], it doesn't help much | 16:13 |
| rubdos[m] | (or make it "thrice two very alike") | 16:13 |
| Keto | Xperia XA2 and 10 support will probably end soon, as their old kernel versions and mixed 64/32bit flavor is causing issue... | 16:14 |
| ViGe | I also have encountered the echo problem like only two or three times ever | 16:14 |
| CLMA31[m] | rainemak: This was the answer that is enough for me. Need to keep thinking other ways | 16:14 |
| rainemak | Keto, that's correct but I think 5.1. will go with them still | 16:14 |
| flypig | +1 more on an Xperia 10 III and very happy with it. But I'm keen to move to the 10 V. | 16:14 |
| direc85[m] | I still have XA2 Ultra, it's great! | 16:14 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], great | 16:14 |
| Keto | yeah, for 5.1 they are still ok | 16:14 |
| rainemak | we're on time... let's move on | 16:14 |
| rainemak | #topic Open Sourcing: Expectations (10mins -- nephros) | 16:15 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open Sourcing: Expectations (10mins -- nephros) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:15 | |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> It’s great that the Open-Sourcing process has finally landed, | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> and we have seen repos (currently: Weather and Notes, with | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> Camera recently added) appear on Github. | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> In communications prior to the relicensing and publishing, it | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> has been said that depending on what happens with these “Test | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> Balloon” applications, more could follow. | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> What are the factors that are monitored at Jolla regarding this, | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> or what is the expectation of what kinds of community | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> contributions will happen? | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> In other words, what would be something that would indicate to | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> the ones in deciding positions that “Hey, Open-Sourcing has been | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <nephros> a great success for us, let’s do more of that!”. | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> A very good question as well. As you may think, it's about the | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> traction being contributions, bug reports, feature proposals, | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> percieved welcoming, etc. At the same time, we want to be | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> transparent on these. You can go and check what these open sourced | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> apps do. What's the actual factor probably will be something that | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> has likely a bit of objective and subjective aspects as all cannot | 16:15 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> be easily measured. | 16:15 |
| rainemak | Trust me, we're over measuring these. | 16:15 |
| rainemak | f**ck | 16:15 |
| rainemak | Trust me, we're not over measuring these. | 16:16 |
| rubdos[m] | lol | 16:16 |
| rainemak | yeap | 16:16 |
| ViGe | :-D | 16:16 |
| ExTechOp | \o/ | 16:16 |
| rainemak | good fun for everybody | 16:16 |
| rubdos[m] | I had a slight itch to look at the camera app source and dust off my background in image processing... but only very slight. | 16:16 |
| Nico | So once you have 1000 PRs per year, you will open source everything, right? | 16:16 |
| abr | anyone know what happened to the guy who said they'd switched the weather app to another provider? did they post any patches anywhere? | 16:17 |
| rainemak | I like this topic a lot. You have taken this very well on forum and this seems to create a positive spirit. | 16:17 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], I think camera app and piggz[m] 's Advanced camera would go great together | 16:18 |
| rainemak | we can surely have more options and settings | 16:18 |
| ExTechOp | A complete dilettante asks: now that these "traditional" applications are open source, what is the build process for them, ie. who decides when new releases get made? Do they get autobuilt into Chum, or what? | 16:18 |
| Nico | Once I finished with my current construction project, I really need to look at the weather app, because my dad is bugging me about it a lot and helped me a lot... | 16:18 |
| rainemak | Nico, let's first get some... Damien created one for notes already | 16:18 |
| rainemak | ^ maybe account asked nephros could be next? who knows | 16:19 |
| Nico | rainemak, no, I always aim for the top to then get disappointed! | 16:19 |
| Nico | Your approach would be way to reasonable | 16:19 |
| rainemak | It's also about your comments. What would you like to see next and why? | 16:20 |
| rainemak | please add comments to the forum respected forum posts | 16:20 |
| rainemak | 5mins | 16:20 |
| Keto | ExTechOp: we are not going to start realasing the apps separately, at least any time soon. so any cahnges will land with the usual OS updates | 16:21 |
| rubdos[m] | My main itch would be to look at denoisening models, I think. | 16:21 |
| Nico | I'm really happy with the weather app being one of the first ones, it is nice and tangible. There is more stuff, but I don't even know, if those things are open or closed and what is part of it :D | 16:21 |
| rubdos[m] | Just steal some ideas from Darktable 🤔 | 16:21 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], +1 | 16:21 |
| rainemak | Let's get rid of that Foreca thingie | 16:22 |
| CLMA31[m] | [@rubdos:rubdos.be](https://matrix.to/#/@rubdos:rubdos.be) +1 | 16:22 |
| abr | last time i looked there were a few other features (like denoising) that could be set in the camera api. there was a desire internally to keep the ui simple, so a few never made it in, which is why advanced camera was started iirc | 16:22 |
| rainemak | I'd not aim first for plugin based rather something kiss | 16:22 |
| rainemak | abr, that I have changed already | 16:23 |
| rubdos[m] | Shouldn't even be in the UI imo. | 16:23 |
| rainemak | the approach I mean | 16:23 |
| rubdos[m] | noise is noise, and if you have a good model for your sensor, it should just get applied :'-) | 16:23 |
| abr | cool! | 16:23 |
| mal | abr: I think one way would be to have some advanced setting button in the camera ui | 16:23 |
| abr | i remember there was a bool to set it. | 16:23 |
| Nico | Make the advanced use case the one, where you disable the denoise? | 16:23 |
| abr | slo-mo and timelapse for video too :) | 16:24 |
| rubdos[m] | Nico not even. The advanced setting gives you raw files. In my humble opinion :'-) | 16:24 |
| rubdos[m] | default is "best we can offer JPEG", and if you want fancy processing, get yourself a DNG and throw it in Darktable | 16:24 |
| CLMA31[m] | With future release notes it would be amazing to have a section for the open sourced native apps | 16:24 |
| Nico | Yeah, sounds somewhat reasonable | 16:25 |
| rainemak | do we need more time on this? | 16:25 |
| rainemak | 5mins? | 16:25 |
| rubdos[m] | Uhh, maybe one last off-side remark from me: I won't really do anything voice or video or picture related as long as I can't access the camera on my IV :'-) | 16:26 |
| rubdos[m] | but iirc that's one of the next topics hehe | 16:26 |
| rainemak | we have some probably shorter topics | 16:26 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], next after that | 16:26 |
| piggz[m] | abr: advanced cam came around because i wanted HDR ... maybe an issue now is that there are multiple android APIs for talking to the camera, and mine uses the old one via gst. Not sure if gst supports the newer API | 16:27 |
| rubdos[m] | (voice, video, picture, includes Camera app contributions, and audio/video calls in WF...) | 16:27 |
| abr | piggz[m]: there's been work in there to support api2 for ages so the 10iii and up would work properly. dunno how far along it is now | 16:27 |
| rainemak | coming to the current weather, notes and camera? has this been a good starting point? | 16:28 |
| rainemak | have we listened you? | 16:28 |
| rubdos[m] | I'd say that's a great start. | 16:28 |
| flypig | Yes, same here. Very happy to see these. | 16:29 |
| Nico | Yep! | 16:29 |
| rainemak | abr, discussed during summer at office about camera api2 but got feeling that current approach is not too far | 16:29 |
| rainemak | s/but/and/ | 16:29 |
| abr | that's good | 16:29 |
| flypig | Accounts would be good next... including Nextcloud integration :) | 16:30 |
| rainemak | alright, let's move on | 16:30 |
| abr | +1 on nextcloud | 16:30 |
| rainemak | flypig, let's see :) | 16:30 |
| flypig | :) | 16:30 |
| mal | abr: video recording is not properly working, also some cleanup of settings side etc | 16:30 |
| CLMA31[m] | +1 on nextcloud | 16:30 |
| abr | nextcloud server running on the mind2 as well pls :) | 16:30 |
| rainemak | let's continue on this on general if we have time left | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #topic Unable to set lock pin for Android apps requiring it (mins -- CLMA31) | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> There has been multiple persons reporting that they are unable to | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> set lock pin for Android apps that require it. Usually the apps | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> requiring the pin are quite crucial for peoples daily usage. Has | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> this been investigated by Jolla and is this at some roadmap on | 16:30 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Unable to set lock pin for Android apps requiring it (mins -- CLMA31) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:30 | |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> planned fixes? Here is couple links of the subjects: Unable to | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> set lock pin for Android apps requiring it & Android app | 16:30 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> requiring lock pin | 16:31 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/unable-to-set-lock-pin-for-android-apps-requiring-it/15806 | 16:31 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/android-app-requiring-lock-pin/8204 | 16:31 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> This is well an understood topic but again not so easy to tackle -- so has been investigated. | 16:31 |
| rainemak | this is 5 mins, accidentally changed window... | 16:31 |
| rainemak | but sure, we do understand the need | 16:32 |
| CLMA31[m] | Is this on any road map on problems to tackle with some wage timeline? | 16:32 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], I'd rather not make state on that as there are many other things already | 16:33 |
| rainemak | statement | 16:33 |
| CLMA31[m] | A little bit related to this. I have been wondering if there could be voting system where (for example the people with monthly voluntary subscription) could vote the most critical bugs or missing features in their use case? | 16:33 |
| rainemak | CLMA31[m], we have been thingie that as well... let's what kind goodies we figure out. | 16:34 |
| CLMA31[m] | rainemak: Understandable. Also understand that native side is the most important but all help to AAS for transition is welcomed | 16:34 |
| CLMA31[m] | Good to hear! | 16:35 |
| rainemak | okey, time to move on | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #topic Any new information about next gen Jolla phone (5mins -- CLMA31) | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> Many of us are probably almost holding our breath if we could get | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> some updates on next gen Jolla phone. Most interesting topic on | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> this is, will there be next gen Jolla phone? There seem to be | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> more and more interest for alternative solutions and as Sailfish | 16:35 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Any new information about next gen Jolla phone (5mins -- CLMA31) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:35 | |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> offers just that, but many which or need better HW phone. Is | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <CLMA31> there any updates regarding this? | 16:35 |
| mini_coe[m] | Are there any changes planed reg. the cyber resilience act in SFOS? | 16:35 |
| rainemak | mini_coe[m], general topic please | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Unfortunaly, we cannot reveal/expose this yet. | 16:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Please, do understand. | 16:35 |
| mini_coe[m] | Ok. I'll propose it for the next meeting, sorry. | 16:36 |
| CLMA31[m] | Can understand, just too eager. Had to try.... | 16:36 |
| flypig | CLMA31[m], just for clarification, what do you mean by "next gen"? Do you just mean "the next phone after the C2"? | 16:37 |
| rainemak | mini_coe[m], thank you | 16:37 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/next-gen-jolla-phone/23882 | 16:37 |
| CLMA31[m] | Yes, the one where there were polls about hw specs | 16:37 |
| flypig | Understood; thanks CLMA31[m]! | 16:38 |
| CLMA31[m] | That one, thanks Raine! | 16:38 |
| abr | mini_coe[m]: you can bring it up in the 'general' topic at the end he means. no need to wait until next meeting (unless there isn't an immediate answer available...) | 16:38 |
| rainemak | 2mins | 16:38 |
| rainemak | We're quite booked already and that "cyber resilience act" would be very good also for the next topic | 16:39 |
| rainemak | abr, I think there are some topics that you'd like to continue as well | 16:40 |
| abr | who me? :) | 16:40 |
| rainemak | all | 16:40 |
| rainemak | camera, open sourcing, random discussion | 16:40 |
| rainemak | let's move to the roadmapping | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #topic Roadmap (10mins -- Cryx) | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Cryx> Having a general Roadmap again (and regular posts on the official | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Cryx> Jolla blog) would be an addition to this topic - right know we all | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Cryx> can just guess s into the blue to where the journey might go on | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Cryx> both software and hardware side. | 16:41 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Roadmap (10mins -- Cryx) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:41 | |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> A very good raise by Cryx. Thank you. | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> First thing is that we need to educate what is roadmap. Quite | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> commonly what happens is that one carves the published roadmap | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> into a stone. In reality, roadmap is a planning tool that changes | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> over time. That's also reason why rainemak has not opened too long | 16:41 |
| Cryx[m] | Sorry, I'm late, but nothing to add... | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> lasting roadmaps. It just cannot be a "snapshot" from a moment. #info <Jolla> We need to have a proper public tool that we can use as a | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> discussion platform. Surely, blog is not good for that. | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Still writing to Jolla Blog is good. We're open to take | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> contributions to there as well. Simple fact is that writing a | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> superior blog compared to writing to announchement to Sailfish | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Forum takes much more time. Theoretically, we could communicate as | 16:41 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> much as you'd like but that's always away from something else. | 16:41 |
| rainemak | Cryx[m], JIT | 16:41 |
| rainemak | Personally I'd like to have an interactive addon on GitHub that each can follow | 16:43 |
| rainemak | No blog post for static pngs | 16:43 |
| rainemak | No blog post nor static pngs | 16:43 |
| rainemak | I think I need to increase my font size :-) | 16:44 |
| flypig | Personally I'd prefer more frequent, less polished, announcements on the forum, than fewer polished announcements on the blog! | 16:45 |
| rainemak | Regarding Blog, I'm open to do a blog with of you -- surely credits would on author | 16:45 |
| CLMA31[m] | flypig: +1 to that! | 16:45 |
| rainemak | flypig, you probably know how time consuming polish blog is (even to Jolla Blog) | 16:46 |
| ExTechOp | I know writing a Polish blog would take a lot of time, since I don't read or write Polish. | 16:46 |
| rainemak | polished | 16:47 |
| rainemak | :-) | 16:47 |
| ExTechOp | :-D | 16:47 |
| piggz[m] | +1 for flypig's awesome nightly reads | 16:47 |
| Cryx[m] | I think the community would like to get any information of development in a more frequent way. Just think on the Xperia IV/V... | 16:47 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, I'm copying and typing | 16:47 |
| rainemak | bare with me | 16:47 |
| Keto | I guess the community news posts on forum do work quite well as short term summary of what is going on? | 16:47 |
| ExTechOp | +1 Yes, Flypig's stuff is fun, even though a majority of the technical details escape me | 16:48 |
| rainemak | Keto, that's target... we can surely extend that more | 16:48 |
| Cryx[m] | Maybe community news are a way to. But up to now there were not really device and development focused. | 16:48 |
| rainemak | also if you have ideas for the community news, please share them | 16:48 |
| flypig | Thanks piggz[m], ExTechOp! The technical details escape me too most times sadly! | 16:49 |
| rainemak | shall we move to 10V? | 16:50 |
| ExTechOp | +1 ! | 16:50 |
| rainemak | let's leave a bit of time for general... I'm ok to go overtime as well | 16:50 |
| rainemak | 16:50 | |
| rainemak | #topic Xperia 10V (5mins -- koza) | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #info <koza> Get some official statement when or if ever we will get camera and | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #info <koza> rest of main phone features what does not work now ( mainly: | 16:50 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Xperia 10V (5mins -- koza) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 16:50 | |
| rainemak | #info <koza> camera, jack audio, fingerprint). Just lot of people purchased | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #info <koza> these Xperias because Jolla promised that until xmass 2024… so | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #info <koza> would be nice to get real status to decide if selling device is | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #info <koza> better solution for all who wasted money caused by Jolla | 16:50 |
| rainemak | #info <koza> promises … thanks | 16:51 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> We'll get back to this with the dedicated topic that we promised | 16:51 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> earlier. We know that we get camera working, battery indicator | 16:51 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> working, maybe some others as well. Fingerprint is a hard nut to | 16:51 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> crack -- frankly it's very likely something that won't happen. | 16:51 |
| rainemak | We are testing new blobs and integration. | 16:51 |
| rainemak | Do you mal have any insights? | 16:51 |
| rubdos[m] | oh wow, wasn't aware about the fingerprint sensor until now 🫣 | 16:52 |
| rainemak | I used it already during spring as my daily along with Jolla C2. | 16:52 |
| flypig | For those using it as a daily driver, how do you find it? | 16:52 |
| mal | camera has been difficult because of issues in the vendor blobs | 16:52 |
| ViGe | I have to go now and read the rest from the logs :/ | 16:53 |
| rainemak | thanks ViGe for joining! | 16:53 |
| ExTechOp | rainemak I think I've asked this before, but how does Sony itself avoid these issues, just load more proprietary bits with their Android to avoid the firmware issues? | 16:54 |
| mini_coe[m] | Is the 10 V better than the C2. Also from performance POV? | 16:55 |
| mal | fingerprint would need monitoring certain communications on device with official android and reverse-engineer the protocol used | 16:55 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, Open Device Program is a different beast as market Sony. | 16:55 |
| rainemak | Open Device Program may share some issues... not necessarily all of them | 16:56 |
| rainemak | Hello, TheKit | 16:56 |
| ExTechOp | Ah, I was under the impression that the blobs that came from Sony were parts of the same stuff that gets flashed with Android, apparently the aren't? | 16:56 |
| abr | Not at all, they're freshly developed for AOSP by the SODP team within Sony | 16:57 |
| rainemak | maybe mal can elaborate more | 16:57 |
| TheKit | Hello :). Sorry for coming out of blue, but do you think doing a community port on top of official blobs could solve some of the issues? Even if it Jolla would have more issues with redistribution in this case | 16:57 |
| TheKit | the problem with Open Device Program is that they attempt to reimplement some of the HAL components, often in not fully feature complete way | 16:58 |
| mal | yeah, the official android is quite different from sony aosp, including different blobs etc | 16:59 |
| ExTechOp | I've understood one of the issues here is also that they quite rarely deliver corrections for reported bugs in the blobs? | 16:59 |
| rainemak | Let's extend this a bit | 16:59 |
| TheKit | I think they fix the issues eventually, but do this for newer Android bases and then SailfishOS has to chase the changes | 16:59 |
| rainemak | we have 3 topics to cover still (open pull requests, general, next meeting) | 17:00 |
| abr | because upgrading the base android version would be really tricky on an existing sfos install | 17:00 |
| rainemak | I'm happy to go over time if that suites you | 17:00 |
| rubdos[m] | that really changes my opinion on the ODP, wow. | 17:00 |
| direc85[m] | +1 | 17:00 |
| ExTechOp | I don't quite see why they re-develop bits that they have already done for the Android distribution, some strange Sony-internal political thing? | 17:02 |
| rainemak | thanks mal, TheKit, abr for elaborating... Maybe this is covered. | 17:02 |
| filip | #info Filip, community | 17:02 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, please let's not start speculating | 17:03 |
| rainemak | time to move forward it sounds | 17:03 |
| rainemak | #topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) | 17:03 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 17:03 | |
| rainemak | Small contribution / issue reporting related PR for Camera (see my comments) | 17:04 |
| rainemak | https://github.com/sailfishos/jolla-camera/pull/2 | 17:04 |
| piggz[m] | oh, i might just chip in here, that yesterday we successfully built qt 6.8.3 on OBS using a branch of SB2 from Thaodan_ ... will this PR be getting merged, it appears to fix a long standing issue https://github.com/sailfishos/scratchbox2/pull/39 | 17:05 |
| rainemak | My thinking is that for each repository we'd create a simple README but common things would be in issue-tracker. How does that sound like? | 17:05 |
| mal | piggz[m]: as that PR is a rather big one it needs time to review and more testing like full rebuild of devel | 17:07 |
| rainemak | piggz[m], could be something for 5.1. -- Keto / mal comments? | 17:07 |
| rainemak | mal, +1 | 17:07 |
| mal | I'll do such a test build soon and see what happens | 17:07 |
| piggz[m] | mal knows it doesnt actually built itself .. i have a branch with a few small changes | 17:08 |
| rainemak | Would 22mins extra be ok? | 17:08 |
| Keto | yeah, reviewing that sb2 PR has been on my todo list, but it's quite scary :) | 17:08 |
| rainemak | Keto, indeed... I don't dare to start reviewing nor I have time for it | 17:09 |
| Keto | and I would think it can very well land on 5.1 if there isn't any major issues | 17:09 |
| mal | Keto: maybe splitting the work a bit like reviewing all commits separate but dividing the work so nobody needs to check all | 17:10 |
| piggz[m] | it is awesome that it works though, makes us quite happy to not have the file permission issues from the old version | 17:10 |
| rainemak | maybe ViGe has ideas as well even though he left already | 17:10 |
| rainemak | ^ review perspective | 17:10 |
| direc85[m] | piggz: Great to hear it works well for you :) | 17:11 |
| rainemak | splitting it is sounds like a good idea to me | 17:11 |
| rainemak | should we move to general chatting... I doubt setting up next takes much time. | 17:12 |
| mal | yes | 17:12 |
| rainemak | #topic General discussion (whatever left -- meeting end target 30mins past) | 17:12 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (whatever left -- meeting end target 30mins past) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 17:12 | |
| rainemak | anything still from the roadmapping? | 17:13 |
| rainemak | or from Open Sourcing: Expectations | 17:14 |
| rainemak | at least these both created a lively discussions | 17:14 |
| ExTechOp | So, when we can expect the Sony Xperia 10IV/V article? | 17:14 |
| flypig | Re: open sourcing. Keep up the good work! | 17:15 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, soonTM, once we get new blobs discussed and tested | 17:15 |
| rainemak | ExTechOp, super hard to say more than that | 17:15 |
| mal | just a small comment about wpa3 topic which was moved to next meeting: we have a work in progress implementation which is still missing some parts and only seemed to work on some devices so more work is needed | 17:16 |
| CLMA31[m] | There was a question on the forum about the echo problem on Sony 10 III. Is it probably that it will be fixed soonish or is that something that Sony need to fix? | 17:16 |
| TheKit | regarding open sourcing, just a hopeful wishing would be to have the whole dependency chain of the open-sourced applications available, so it could be possible to compile them with community Qt 6.x for example | 17:16 |
| ExTechOp | Can you reveal anything on the process how the blobs would get updated, if I remember correctly this hasn't been done before? | 17:16 |
| rainemak | I pushed some old branches for notes and camera... tried to check whether they are out dated or not | 17:16 |
| rainemak | for notes I liked the idea of bringing categories | 17:17 |
| rainemak | and replacing note coloring in favor of category | 17:17 |
| filip | I wonder how 5.1 testing is going. or will be another 5.0 before? | 17:17 |
| rainemak | filip, I think we have one 5.0 still. We some good network fixes for Jolla c2. | 17:18 |
| abr | ExTechOp: you would just need to flash that one partition with the new blob img. Not something you'd expect a general consumer to do, but advanced sfos users who've done a bit of flashing in their time should be fine with it. | 17:18 |
| rainemak | filip, for 5.1. we just integrated new GCC and we need to run for a while | 17:18 |
| filip | gcc == scary upgrade jenga | 17:19 |
| rainemak | correct, but so far none after integrating it | 17:19 |
| rainemak | only that one runtime buggie that we mentioned in the last week's newsletter | 17:19 |
| ExTechOp | abr This is not something that could be integrated into the normal OS update, but it would have to be a separate operation done with the specialized Android tools one needs for initial installation? | 17:19 |
| rainemak | filip, so bigger upgrade jenga we have already passed | 17:20 |
| abr | ExTechOp: I guess it could but it would be a lot of work. I think it's far simpler to use the existing tools given that it's not something likely to need doing very often. | 17:22 |
| abr | But it's not up to me | 17:22 |
| rainemak | mal, would like to say something about wpa3? I think you have the best understand of the current state.. | 17:23 |
| rainemak | we have had now 2 times in row very good questions which have raised a lot discussions. | 17:24 |
| mal | rainemak: already mentioned it | 17:24 |
| rainemak | thanks | 17:24 |
| rainemak | would it be ok, if we extend this meeting by default to 90mins and limit to 5-6 topics? | 17:24 |
| Keto | I think the problem mainly is that we can't distribute the blobs, so automating their updates is nearly impossible | 17:24 |
| rainemak | Keto, correct and thanks | 17:25 |
| rainemak | one would need to accept terms from Sony's website | 17:25 |
| mal | yeah, would need some UI to accept the license and then downloading those from server to flash | 17:26 |
| abr | yep. on the device. then have space to download the image onto the device somewhere | 17:26 |
| rainemak | anything for this: "would it be ok, if we extend this meeting by default to 90mins and limit to 5-6 topics?" | 17:27 |
| Keto | and it would make the system update dependent on 3rd party service, which brings it's own complications | 17:27 |
| rainemak | previously said already that for most topics 5mins ain't enough | 17:27 |
| TheKit | that would be require of extra work as opposed to having to flash those with fastboot (as it was done during SFOS install originally) | 17:28 |
| TheKit | -would be | 17:28 |
| direc85[m] | I'm ok with 90min meetings | 17:28 |
| flypig | Extending the meeting: I'm okay with it too. | 17:28 |
| rainemak | I already extend some to 10mins and some dropped 5mins | 17:28 |
| abr | a new mode for the flashing script might not be too difficult, but using that wouldn't be much more simple than just calling fastboot | 17:29 |
| abr | but could do the checking that it does already | 17:29 |
| abr | to make sure you have the right image etc | 17:29 |
| rainemak | direc85[m], I think approx. right amount of topics is around 5-6 | 17:29 |
| rainemak | + pull reqs + general + ending | 17:29 |
| direc85[m] | rainemak, that a good amount I think | 17:30 |
| rainemak | what a meeting once again!!! time start ending this one | 17:30 |
| rainemak | super good questions and lively discussion! let's keep doing like this | 17:30 |
| rainemak | next topic... final | 17:31 |
| rainemak | #topic Next meeting time and date (1 mins) | 17:31 |
| rainemak | Proposing Thursday 23rd October at 04:00 PM UTC | 17:31 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (1 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 9th October 2025)" | 17:31 | |
| flypig | Works for me :) | 17:31 |
| direc85[m] | +1 | 17:32 |
| rubdos[m] | <3 | 17:32 |
| mini_coe[m] | +1 | 17:32 |
| rubdos[m] | Don't count on me, I won't have a lot of internet that week. | 17:32 |
| flypig | That sounds like a story? | 17:33 |
| rainemak | If you all don't mind, we'll take a bit liberty to adjust times already in the Forum. We have a gut feeling which topics tend to create more discussion. | 17:33 |
| rubdos[m] | Story after the fact :) | 17:33 |
| rainemak | rubdos[m], there's always the logs | 17:33 |
| rubdos[m] | exactly | 17:33 |
| rubdos[m] | and I'm not the most reliable to join anyway! | 17:33 |
| CLMA31[m] | Sorry, couldn't participate in the end but thank you for today! | 17:33 |
| rainemak | thank you CLMA31[m]. You raised good questions as did nephros and Cryx | 17:34 |
| rainemak | and koza | 17:34 |
| rainemak | better two have more discussion every 2nd week than cutting the discussion short | 17:35 |
| rainemak | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 23rd October 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-10-23T1600Z | 17:35 |
| rainemak | Thank you everybody who participated! Let's keep on working together. | 17:36 |
| flypig | Thank you rainemak and everyone! Enjoyed it today. | 17:36 |
| rainemak | and also the ones who read the logs :-) | 17:36 |
| direc85[m] | Thank you all! | 17:36 |
| rainemak | #endmeeting | 17:37 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Oct 9 17:37:04 2025 UTC. | 17:37 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-10-09-16.00.html | 17:37 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-10-09-16.00.txt | 17:37 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-10-09-16.00.log.html | 17:37 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on October 9th 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-10-09T1600Z" | 17:37 | |
| TheKit | thank you! | 17:37 |
| rainemak | abr, would you mind to extend github calendar invite to 90mins. If it is shorter, then it's shorter. 5-6 topics per week max. | 17:41 |
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