Saturday, 2013-07-27

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namefakehi! will there be a 'community' version of sailfish. some of the comments around nemo mobile seem to think so
namefakeQUOTING: "That’ll become pretty important when Sailfish is opened up (cept for Jolla’s flavour of Sailfish)."06:37
Stskeepsa sailfish device = sailfish ui (currently not open) + hardware adaptation (in ARM world, these are typically not open) + nemo middleware + mer core06:39
Stskeepsso nemo ui would allow community to play around with concepts, learn the tools of the trade, as they're nemo = nemo ui + hardware adaptation (in ARM world, typically not open) + nemo middleware + mer core06:40
Stskeepson very solid foundation06:40
namefakethanks. if the ui is closed, is there going to be any sailfish code going to nemo? (e.g. apps). by going to nemo, i mean code that nemo can use?06:42
Stskeepseverything middleware and core is currently going to nemo06:42
namefakebrilliant! thanks.06:43
Stskeepsdown to that when we have problem in development on sailfishos side, it shows up instantly on nemo side too06:43
Stskeepsso that's about as open as that area gets06:43
Stskeepsyou have to understand: a potentially open sailfish ui would be very designer driven, needing tests/QA/design for every little feature and it doesn't always foster innovation like a more community driven one can06:44
Stskeepsso there needs to be a balance, a playground06:44
Stskeepsbtw, you're marbleuser?06:44
namefakeyes, that's correct. i'm hoping for a reason to get behind jolla. i've gone from being a supporter to being back on the fence.06:47
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Stskeeps:nod: personally - if i was in your position, i'd evaluate each option you have, look at the device, look at the OS, see if it's something you want to have -- in the end, it's your own personal preferences that decide if you want to buy a product06:49
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Stskeepssome people are a better fit for openmoko freerunner, others can live with a bit of closed source in order to have a proper consumer experience06:50
Stskeepsmyself, personally -- the OS on the device and the hackability is much more than maemo ever gave, clear seperation between what's open and what's not06:52
namefakei think 2013 is going to be the year of open mobile phone promises, and 2014 is going to bring us the reality. there's going to be a few choices but between now and then i've come to the conclusion that there'll be some goalpost shifting (from everybody)06:54
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Stskeeps:nod: for sure06:56
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Stskeepseither way: feel free to follow activities in mer and nemo, and enjoy our upcoming SDK06:59
namefakethe sdk changes are another example of goalpost shifting. a lot of people on TMO feel like they've been alienated by jolla.07:07
Stskeepsthat's understandable but -- let's face reality, if you want an application that works on a device of next half year; and have ability to run it on multiple sailfish devices; qt4-x11 is a no-go07:10
Stskeepsit hurts now and it hasn't been the nicest, but it has really been the only way forward -- it's not technolust, it's necessity07:10
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namefakei think that has sunk in, if you're talking about all that surrounds libhybris. my own feeling is that i'll probably wait for xwayland support as that has the potential to bring back a lot of backward compatibility.07:17
Stskeepsxwayland, or xmir has the big bad problem that EGL/GLESv2 doesn't work with it07:18
Stskeepsso that turns a modern UI into a slideshow07:18
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Stskeepsie, apps using X11+EGL/GLESv207:18
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namefakei wasn't aware of that, but maybe using a nested xserver could mitigate that, but that's a horrible kludge. that's incredibly disapointing.07:21
Stskeepsit may be possible in the future07:21
Stskeepsit's after all EGL07:21
Stskeepsbut it doesn't do it today07:21
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namefakestill, there's quite a lot of apps that should work with it i guess. so personally i'd still be on board if xwayland ever found it's way to sailfish. anyway, thanks for the chat. gotta go.07:26
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Morpogthere is alot of interesting stuff in latest SDK release :)13:07
Stskeepswhat do you find most exciting?13:08
lbtMorpog: which release?13:09
Morpogcalligra, poppler, fmrx13:09
Morpogfor example13:09
dm8tbrlbt: there is a world readable repo...13:09
lbt*g* ... do people really sit hitting f5 on the repos dir :)13:10
Morpognot me, anyone did and posted the link :)13:10
MorpogI just digged through it :)13:11
MorpogFrom seeing all the new icons in jolla mabient makes me feel it shapes up quite nicely compared to last release.13:12
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HartziMorpog: sailfish sdk?13:23
Morpogsure, but I won't post the link here. Not sure if this hsould have been hidden.13:24
Morpogit's "only" the repo btw13:24
ericccwhat  mabient  mean?:)13:31
ericcci  looks   good  news13:34
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Yanielse now we have a "leaked sailfish sdk"15:03
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Morpogtrue, first ever leak in jolla history :)15:06
lbtit's kinda funny 'cos the commits have been pushed to public repos day-by-day15:17
Sfiet_Konstantindid we ever find any leaked information about the device in this SDK ?15:17
Sfiet_Konstantinis there any reference to the CPU used :P15:17
* lbt makes sure the MIPS rpms are hidden!15:18
dm8tbrlbt: there goes my hope for PPC :(15:19
dm8tbrlbt: people are not used to this 'development in the open' thing ;)15:19
lbtI'd like to have time to breathe once we release - hopefully help people (who want to) try out the active development repos15:21
lbtthere's a lot of potential for user-contributed patches15:22
Sfiet_KonstantinI wonder if anyone tried to do a hybrid emulator using these "leaked packages"15:23
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fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: you can always find maniacs, but most of people will just wait those few days for official installer15:42
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Sfiet_KonstantinI won't risk in breaking my SDL15:45
Sfiet_Konstantinbut some might already did that and posted screenshots :D15:45
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MorpogSfiet_Konstantin, which screenshots?16:08
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog: about a hybrid SDK with the newer packages16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinbut I did not do htat16:08
Morpogah I thought, somebody already did16:08
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Sfiet_Konstantinhello guys !18:20
Sfiet_Konstantinlbt: ping ?18:20
Sfiet_Konstantinor any SDK guy ? :)18:20
Sfiet_Konstantinin the JollaFr chan, we are talking about the SDK, and it's inability to work with a vim / simple text editor basis.18:20
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm sure that you can trigger builds with some scripts instead of the build button in QtC18:21
Sfiet_Konstantinso, basically, what's used in QtC to trigger the builds / RPM / deployment ?18:21
lbtSfiet_Konstantin: hmm18:29
Sfiet_KonstantinI also sent a mail to the ML to archive this18:30
lbtSfiet_Konstantin: so you want to build inside the VM but not use QtC18:30
lbtpretty easy :)18:31
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, you can't build without the VM18:31
Sfiet_Konstantinand you can control the VM either with virtualbox, or with the command line18:31
lbtessentially QtC runs an ssh command to mersdk user in the VM and the runs a script called mb2 which does qmake/make/rpmbuild stuff18:31
Sfiet_Konstantinthat's what I guessed :)18:32
Sfiet_Konstantinyep, the infamous mb2 :)18:32
Sfiet_Konstantinbut how to call it easily ? can't you use merssh ?18:32
Sfiet_Konstantinor you can use the plain old ssh ?18:32
lbtwell, ssh is fine - merssh is used because it works on windows too18:33
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Sfiet_Konstantinso basically, call ssh mb218:33
Sfiet_Konstantinsounds easy enough18:33
Sfiet_Konstantinor can't you just call sb2 -t ... qmake / make ?18:34
lbtmb2 is there to make package building more reliable/consistent18:34
Sfiet_Konstantincool, I guess that we will cook a script for those allergic to QtC18:34
Sfiet_Konstantinyep, I like mb2 myself :)18:35
lbtit ensures that day-to-day development uses the same context to compile as you find when making a package18:35
lbtreduces the likelihood of issues when moving to a builder (eg app store builder or suchlike)18:36
lbt(or mobs)18:36
Sfiet_Konstantinyep, but for daily dev, it might be better to call qmake make18:37
Sfiet_Konstantinas it reduce compile tme18:37
lbtno, it has been tuned18:37
lbtrun "mb2 qmake"18:38
lbtand "mb2 make"18:38
Sfiet_Konstantinlet me try :):)18:38
lbtalso, with properly setup QtC and devices you can run : mb2 deploy18:39
lbtcurrently the device/emulator is handled in QtC but that will move to control centre soon18:39
lbtwhich means localhost:8080 can be used to do target mgmt etc18:39
lbtall of this is in the VM - but again it should move to lxc easily18:40
Sfiet_Konstantinthanks lbt, will try tomorrow :)18:46
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Sfiet_Konstantinlbt: what do you mean properly setup ?19:01
lbt (which is probably slightly outdated)19:02
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Sfiet_Konstantinif you installed the SDK it should be property setup I guess, no ?19:10
lbtsent an email reply too19:10
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Sfiet_Konstantinthanks lbt, I made a script to automate this
Sfiet_Konstantinneed to polish it though, but it should be useable19:40
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Sfiet_Konstantinfeel free to release it as part of the SDK, or in addition (like wiki page), for those vim addicts19:44
lbtif you're using cli can't you just ssh into the VM?19:45
Sfiet_Konstantinlbt: well, it's not me :D19:46
Sfiet_Konstantinand vim into vm might be painful ?19:47
Sfiet_Konstantinor not, I dunno19:47
lbtshouldn't be19:47
Sfiet_KonstantinI prefer to have external control on host most of the time19:47
lbtyou can install emacs19:47
Sfiet_Konstantinmy laptop don't have too much ram19:47
Sfiet_Konstantinso most of the time, I code on host, fire up the vm, compile, and close it19:47
Sfiet_Konstantinso, it saves ram19:47
Sfiet_KonstantinI wrote that script by considering that aspect19:47
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, it is more: kill firefox, fire up vm, compile, close it19:48
lbtthe better solution will be lxc19:48
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Sfiet_Konstantinsounds nice19:49
Sfiet_Konstantinbut virtualbox is already ok for me19:49
Sfiet_Konstantin(well, I, personnaly, use platform sdk :))19:49
lbtyes, lxc is more like the platform sdk - almost no overhead19:49
Sfiet_Konstantinlbt: but just like platform sdk, lxc can only be executed on linux19:55
* ajalkane makes an obligatory "all hail linux" remark19:56
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