Tuesday, 2013-10-01

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DarkSimCan I say that Sailfish is Linux?10:26
DarkSimTrying to tell people about Sailfish is a bit hard you know :P10:27
DarkSimBecause it's known that Android in fact isn't purely Linux10:27
Yanielmore linux than android, is it?10:27
DarkSimThat's what I've heard, but I just wanted to be sure10:28
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faenilSailfish IS linux10:30
DarkSimI got this tidbit10:30
DarkSimwhich isn't wrong, but it just made me laugh10:31
DarkSim"well .. no os is more truly linux based than ubuntu phone os, isn't it? ^^"10:31
faenilwell Sailfish and UbuntuTouch both run on Android HW drivers anyway10:31
faenilthat is, you reuse drivers which manufacturers developed for those SoC to run Android (i.e. using bionic)10:32
DarkSimbut doesn't mean it runs worse or anything?10:33
faenilthat said, they don't HAVE to run on Android drivers, it's just easier because you don't have to develop your own driver, and can trust the thoroughly tested Android ones10:33
DarkSimSince Android uses a lot of layers and stuff, but that doesn't affect the drivers?10:33
faenilDarkSim, nope10:33
faenilDarkSim, basically there is a layer (which is libhybris) which lets you use bionic drivers in glibc-based systems10:34
DarkSimI'm not that intelligent10:35
jussiDarkSim: Meego, now theres a real linux phone10:35
faenilDarkSim, why isn't Ubuntu linux anyway?10:36
faenilubuntu phone*10:36
faenilI'd say that is linux as well10:36
Nicd-I don't think anyone said it wasn't10:36
DarkSimI'm not saying it isn't10:36
DarkSimbut it's like the black sheep of Linux10:37
DarkSimand it will probably alienate most of the devs10:37
DarkSimergo still being Linux, but something supporting Wayland Qt5 and many many goodies will do more well10:37
DarkSimHe is not wrong, but I hope you get my point10:37
faenilyes of course10:38
faenilblack sheep is probably related to Mir plans? otherwise I don't get it10:38
DarkSimWell Canonical have made devs mad in the past10:39
Nicd-ubuntu seems to have NIH syndrome?10:39
faenilDarkSim, we're definitely safe saying Sailfish is the closest thing there is to Linux, when it comes to mobile devices10:40
faeniland nemomobile, of course10:40
DarkSimI hope it just goes fully open-source when it's done10:41
faenilDarkSim, fully as in UI as well?10:42
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DarkSimSince I heard some rumours that it will be going open once it's out10:42
faenilUI Components may be released at one point, but I don't think the rest of UI will ever be10:43
faenilnobody knows :)10:43
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faenilDarkSim, do you know nemomobile?10:44
faenilit's another linux distro for mobile devices, but community work based10:45
faenilJolla uses Nemomobile middleware and contributes to it10:45
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faenilso both Nemo and Sailfish use the same middleware (sailfish may have many 3rd party additions and closed parts related to their UI of course)10:46
faeniland the same core (they're both based on Mer core)10:46
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faenilso, in short words, we may say Sailfish and Nemo are the same things, except Nemo's UI is by community, hence open10:47
faenilthat makes Nemo open top to bottom10:47
DarkSimBut does mean...in very rough explanations10:47
DarkSimthat Sailfish can be Android and Nemo Cyanogenmod?10:48
faenilI don't know much about the relation between those two10:48
DarkSimLike...Nemo can basically be used instead of Sailfish with same results, just without the UI10:48
faenilbut Jolla sailors were most of the authors of Nemo10:48
faenilDarkSim, yes, and without all the 3rd party and closed stuff10:49
DarkSimSounds good10:49
faenilSailfish was born from Nemo10:49
faenilbut Sailfish is a business project, so some parts will have to be closed to protect incomes/investors/etc10:50
faenilall the open parts of Sailfish are shared with Nemo10:50
faenilDarkSim, this same, I invite you to support Jolla, as we <3 Jolla, and join #nemomobile channel ;)10:52
faenilif you want to take part in the development :)10:52
DarkSimBut but....I'm just a stupid end-user10:52
faenilwell, feel free to jump when you want ;)10:52
faeniljump in*10:53
locusfwe need input from everyone :)10:54
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DarkSimBut...if Nemo is something that has existed for a long time10:56
faenilDarkSim, me and locusf are contributors :)10:56
DarkSimdoes that mean I can use Nemo now?10:57
faenilDarkSim, we're moving to Wayland right now, it's a bit messy :)10:57
DarkSimor does it lack things like UI and hardware support?10:57
faenilDarkSim, we're developing a new UI for it10:57
DarkSimOh ok10:57
faenilDarkSim, this is what we're doing on Nemo10:57
locusfyeah completely open source10:57
DarkSimI'm literally at crossroads, I'm getting tired of my Android phone, bought it because it was good at entertainment, found out it's literally what it is worst at lol10:58
faenillol :)10:58
faenilwell, we're all waiting for The Jolla :D10:58
faenilit's going to be awesome10:58
crndOh my, that UI looks great! :)10:59
Nicd-it's going to descend from the skies in a holy fanfare10:59
DarkSimSo now I'm thinking of going F*** it, I'll get a phone next that will be good for calling, texting, taking photos and reading social media and watching youtube10:59
DarkSimNothing else matters10:59
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DarkSimBecause if my phone gets minimum 50 degrees celsius and almost  burns my fingers when I play Bloons Tower Defense 5, I'm not sure I want another phone11:00
faenilNicd-, yeah exactly that11:00
faenilcrnd, yeah it does :) help us make it happen!11:00
crndwill have to look at it when i get home if i see anything i'd be able to contribute to11:03
faenilcrnd, awesome, thanks ;)11:04
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pieethe  jollaphone can have cdma model?11:29
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DarkSimbtw, if I preorder a Jolla but I'm not living in Finland, does that work?11:57
faenilyou can't preorder if you don't live in finland :D11:58
faenildon't know if it works if you have a finnish friend who can get that for you though ;)11:58
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Sfiet_KonstantinDarkSim: well, you are supporting them by giving them 100€, that's nice of you :D12:18
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DarkSimbut that is only paid while I wait for the actual bill right?12:20
DarkSimI don't pay 500 euros, I pay 100 for preorder, then I get it back and pay 400?12:21
Nicd-isn't it 399 in total and 299 with the voucher?12:21
Nicd-the 100 € voucher you get12:22
DarkSimSo let me get this straight12:22
DarkSimWhat is the phone's actual price (excluding everything)12:22
DarkSimWhat is the preorderíng cost?12:22
DarkSimwhat will be the total cost12:22
Nicd-the actual price is 399 € afaik12:23
Nicd-you preorder and pay 100 €, later you will get a 100 € voucher in return12:24
Nicd-you can use this 100 € voucher to buy the phone for 299 €12:24
Nicd-so your total cost is 399 €12:24
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mhall119hang on, faenil did you say that SailfishOS isn't all open source?13:26
Morpog_N9___not yet13:26
faenilmhall119, the UI is not (AT THE MOMENT) :)13:26
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mhall119oh, I didn't realize that13:26
Morpog_N9___some parts maybe never (like driver blobs)13:26
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faenilMorpog_N9___, let's not give false hopes :D we don't know if it will ever happen13:26
mhall119well drivers I can understand and forgive13:27
faenilbut Jolla people say it depends on how things will evolve13:27
mhall119bu the UI I just assumed was open source13:27
faenilmhall119, UI is the only things which is not open in sailfish :)13:27
Morpog_N9___faenil, not yet doesn't imply it will ever :)13:28
faenilMorpog_N9___, well, kind of :P13:28
mhall119faenil: kind of a big piece though13:28
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artemmafaenil: I can already now see sources of Silica controls in the SDK, so apparently UI controls are open even if by accident (but I guess on purpose)14:13
artemmathe fact that they are open doesn't mean they are free to resell or modify though :)14:14
faenilartemma, UI controls are BSD iirc, they were expected to be published sooner or later ;)14:14
faenildidn't know they were included in latest sdk though ;)14:14
artemmaWhat I would really love to see open is the system stuff. Like ambiance changer, scheduler (whatever they use - just cron?), etc14:15
artemmain face I am interested in API, not in the sources per se14:15
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faenilartemma, ambiance changer is UI14:15
artemmabut I have the feeling that it's easier to see sources and then just figure out which DBus messages to send to e.g. generate ambiance :)14:15
faenilartemma, scheduler? I guess whatever comes with Nemomobile, that's open already14:16
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artemmauhmm… Okay, to be real precise, I want system to wake my app at certain system events such as "screen unlocked, 3 hours passed, etc"14:17
artemmaon harmattan that used to be freaking difficult and I ended up simulating a custom alarm clock handler that just happened to be invisible and doing "useful stuff" © in the background14:18
artemmaand since there is no info on app store yet, who knows how much an app can actually be allowed to do. Maybe normal apps can't have daemons or attach to scheduler in a headless way14:19
artemmayeah.. so apparently my questions are no really technical, but more political "what's allowed, what's recommended for periodical headless execution" :)14:20
faenilartemma, I have /etc/cron.daily in Nemo :)14:21
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artemmaand can your app add yourself to crontab?14:22
faenildon't know, not sure who's reading cron.daily14:22
faenilas crond is not running14:22
faeniland crontab say not found14:22
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artemmahmm, looks similar to harmattan14:26
artemmaI have subtle memories about that I was happy discovering cron.daily and then figured it's not used :)14:27
artemmaor maybe my memory lets me down. Anyway cron wasn't really working there14:27
faenilwell, just have to wait for a guy from jolla to clear our doubts :)14:28
ericccwhen time   guy from  jolla  will  come:014:42
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Sfiet_Konstantinericcc: hello :D15:01
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faenilfor those interested in Nemomobile: https://twitter.com/faenil/status/38509718855394099217:42
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artemmaLooking at Jolla device specs, it seems to mean device without the otherhalf (just 9.9mm thick)17:48
artemmathat makes me wonder if any otherhalf will be included. And what the weight will be like when a meaningful other half is added (just phone specs tell 141grams)17:49
faenilartemma, I think that includes other half....17:49
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faenilboth thickness and weight17:49
artemma9.9mm including otherhalf.. uhmm.. maybe if simplest possible half is used.. like just a cover17:50
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wmaroneor something that was nfc only17:51
wmaronewhich is likely17:51
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