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DarkSim | Can I say that Sailfish is Linux? | 10:26 |
---|---|---|
Nicd- | yes | 10:26 |
DarkSim | Trying to tell people about Sailfish is a bit hard you know :P | 10:27 |
DarkSim | Because it's known that Android in fact isn't purely Linux | 10:27 |
Yaniel | more linux than android, is it? | 10:27 |
DarkSim | That's what I've heard, but I just wanted to be sure | 10:28 |
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faenil | Sailfish IS linux | 10:30 |
DarkSim | I got this tidbit | 10:30 |
faenil | :D | 10:31 |
DarkSim | which isn't wrong, but it just made me laugh | 10:31 |
DarkSim | "well .. no os is more truly linux based than ubuntu phone os, isn't it? ^^" | 10:31 |
faenil | well Sailfish and UbuntuTouch both run on Android HW drivers anyway | 10:31 |
faenil | that is, you reuse drivers which manufacturers developed for those SoC to run Android (i.e. using bionic) | 10:32 |
DarkSim | but doesn't mean it runs worse or anything? | 10:33 |
faenil | that said, they don't HAVE to run on Android drivers, it's just easier because you don't have to develop your own driver, and can trust the thoroughly tested Android ones | 10:33 |
DarkSim | Since Android uses a lot of layers and stuff, but that doesn't affect the drivers? | 10:33 |
faenil | DarkSim, nope | 10:33 |
faenil | DarkSim, basically there is a layer (which is libhybris) which lets you use bionic drivers in glibc-based systems | 10:34 |
DarkSim | I'm not that intelligent | 10:35 |
jussi | DarkSim: Meego, now theres a real linux phone | 10:35 |
faenil | DarkSim, why isn't Ubuntu linux anyway? | 10:36 |
faenil | ubuntu phone* | 10:36 |
faenil | I'd say that is linux as well | 10:36 |
Nicd- | I don't think anyone said it wasn't | 10:36 |
DarkSim | I'm not saying it isn't | 10:36 |
DarkSim | but it's like the black sheep of Linux | 10:37 |
DarkSim | and it will probably alienate most of the devs | 10:37 |
DarkSim | ergo still being Linux, but something supporting Wayland Qt5 and many many goodies will do more well | 10:37 |
DarkSim | He is not wrong, but I hope you get my point | 10:37 |
faenil | yes of course | 10:38 |
faenil | black sheep is probably related to Mir plans? otherwise I don't get it | 10:38 |
DarkSim | Well Canonical have made devs mad in the past | 10:39 |
Nicd- | ubuntu seems to have NIH syndrome? | 10:39 |
faenil | DarkSim, we're definitely safe saying Sailfish is the closest thing there is to Linux, when it comes to mobile devices | 10:40 |
faenil | and nemomobile, of course | 10:40 |
DarkSim | I hope it just goes fully open-source when it's done | 10:41 |
faenil | DarkSim, fully as in UI as well? | 10:42 |
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DarkSim | Yes | 10:42 |
DarkSim | Since I heard some rumours that it will be going open once it's out | 10:42 |
faenil | UI Components may be released at one point, but I don't think the rest of UI will ever be | 10:43 |
faenil | nobody knows :) | 10:43 |
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faenil | DarkSim, do you know nemomobile? | 10:44 |
DarkSim | Nope | 10:44 |
faenil | it's another linux distro for mobile devices, but community work based | 10:45 |
faenil | Jolla uses Nemomobile middleware and contributes to it | 10:45 |
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faenil | so both Nemo and Sailfish use the same middleware (sailfish may have many 3rd party additions and closed parts related to their UI of course) | 10:46 |
faenil | and the same core (they're both based on Mer core) | 10:46 |
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faenil | so, in short words, we may say Sailfish and Nemo are the same things, except Nemo's UI is by community, hence open | 10:47 |
faenil | that makes Nemo open top to bottom | 10:47 |
DarkSim | But does mean...in very rough explanations | 10:47 |
DarkSim | that Sailfish can be Android and Nemo Cyanogenmod? | 10:48 |
faenil | I don't know much about the relation between those two | 10:48 |
DarkSim | Like...Nemo can basically be used instead of Sailfish with same results, just without the UI | 10:48 |
faenil | but Jolla sailors were most of the authors of Nemo | 10:48 |
faenil | DarkSim, yes, and without all the 3rd party and closed stuff | 10:49 |
DarkSim | Sounds good | 10:49 |
faenil | Sailfish was born from Nemo | 10:49 |
faenil | but Sailfish is a business project, so some parts will have to be closed to protect incomes/investors/etc | 10:50 |
faenil | all the open parts of Sailfish are shared with Nemo | 10:50 |
faenil | DarkSim, this same, I invite you to support Jolla, as we <3 Jolla, and join #nemomobile channel ;) | 10:52 |
faenil | if you want to take part in the development :) | 10:52 |
DarkSim | But but....I'm just a stupid end-user | 10:52 |
faenil | well, feel free to jump when you want ;) | 10:52 |
faenil | jump in* | 10:53 |
locusf | we need input from everyone :) | 10:54 |
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DarkSim | But...if Nemo is something that has existed for a long time | 10:56 |
faenil | DarkSim, me and locusf are contributors :) | 10:56 |
DarkSim | does that mean I can use Nemo now? | 10:57 |
faenil | DarkSim, we're moving to Wayland right now, it's a bit messy :) | 10:57 |
DarkSim | or does it lack things like UI and hardware support? | 10:57 |
faenil | DarkSim, we're developing a new UI for it | 10:57 |
DarkSim | Oh ok | 10:57 |
faenil | DarkSim, this is what we're doing on Nemo | 10:57 |
faenil | http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=344 | 10:57 |
locusf | yeah completely open source | 10:57 |
DarkSim | I'm literally at crossroads, I'm getting tired of my Android phone, bought it because it was good at entertainment, found out it's literally what it is worst at lol | 10:58 |
faenil | lol :) | 10:58 |
faenil | well, we're all waiting for The Jolla :D | 10:58 |
faenil | it's going to be awesome | 10:58 |
crnd | Oh my, that UI looks great! :) | 10:59 |
Nicd- | it's going to descend from the skies in a holy fanfare | 10:59 |
DarkSim | So now I'm thinking of going F*** it, I'll get a phone next that will be good for calling, texting, taking photos and reading social media and watching youtube | 10:59 |
DarkSim | Nothing else matters | 10:59 |
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DarkSim | Because if my phone gets minimum 50 degrees celsius and almost burns my fingers when I play Bloons Tower Defense 5, I'm not sure I want another phone | 11:00 |
faenil | Nicd-, yeah exactly that | 11:00 |
faenil | crnd, yeah it does :) help us make it happen! | 11:00 |
crnd | will have to look at it when i get home if i see anything i'd be able to contribute to | 11:03 |
faenil | crnd, awesome, thanks ;) | 11:04 |
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piee | the jollaphone can have cdma model? | 11:29 |
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DarkSim | btw, if I preorder a Jolla but I'm not living in Finland, does that work? | 11:57 |
faenil | you can't preorder if you don't live in finland :D | 11:58 |
faenil | don't know if it works if you have a finnish friend who can get that for you though ;) | 11:58 |
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Sfiet_Konstantin | DarkSim: well, you are supporting them by giving them 100€, that's nice of you :D | 12:18 |
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DarkSim | but that is only paid while I wait for the actual bill right? | 12:20 |
DarkSim | I don't pay 500 euros, I pay 100 for preorder, then I get it back and pay 400? | 12:21 |
Nicd- | isn't it 399 in total and 299 with the voucher? | 12:21 |
DarkSim | Voucher? | 12:21 |
Nicd- | the 100 € voucher you get | 12:22 |
DarkSim | So let me get this straight | 12:22 |
DarkSim | What is the phone's actual price (excluding everything) | 12:22 |
DarkSim | What is the preorderíng cost? | 12:22 |
DarkSim | what will be the total cost | 12:22 |
Nicd- | the actual price is 399 € afaik | 12:23 |
Nicd- | you preorder and pay 100 €, later you will get a 100 € voucher in return | 12:24 |
Nicd- | you can use this 100 € voucher to buy the phone for 299 € | 12:24 |
Nicd- | so your total cost is 399 € | 12:24 |
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mhall119 | hang on, faenil did you say that SailfishOS isn't all open source? | 13:26 |
Morpog_N9___ | not yet | 13:26 |
faenil | mhall119, the UI is not (AT THE MOMENT) :) | 13:26 |
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mhall119 | oh, I didn't realize that | 13:26 |
Morpog_N9___ | some parts maybe never (like driver blobs) | 13:26 |
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faenil | Morpog_N9___, let's not give false hopes :D we don't know if it will ever happen | 13:26 |
mhall119 | well drivers I can understand and forgive | 13:27 |
faenil | but Jolla people say it depends on how things will evolve | 13:27 |
mhall119 | bu the UI I just assumed was open source | 13:27 |
faenil | mhall119, UI is the only things which is not open in sailfish :) | 13:27 |
faenil | thing* | 13:27 |
Morpog_N9___ | faenil, not yet doesn't imply it will ever :) | 13:28 |
faenil | Morpog_N9___, well, kind of :P | 13:28 |
mhall119 | faenil: kind of a big piece though | 13:28 |
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artemma | faenil: I can already now see sources of Silica controls in the SDK, so apparently UI controls are open even if by accident (but I guess on purpose) | 14:13 |
artemma | the fact that they are open doesn't mean they are free to resell or modify though :) | 14:14 |
faenil | artemma, UI controls are BSD iirc, they were expected to be published sooner or later ;) | 14:14 |
faenil | didn't know they were included in latest sdk though ;) | 14:14 |
artemma | What I would really love to see open is the system stuff. Like ambiance changer, scheduler (whatever they use - just cron?), etc | 14:15 |
artemma | in face I am interested in API, not in the sources per se | 14:15 |
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faenil | artemma, ambiance changer is UI | 14:15 |
artemma | but I have the feeling that it's easier to see sources and then just figure out which DBus messages to send to e.g. generate ambiance :) | 14:15 |
faenil | artemma, scheduler? I guess whatever comes with Nemomobile, that's open already | 14:16 |
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artemma | uhmm… Okay, to be real precise, I want system to wake my app at certain system events such as "screen unlocked, 3 hours passed, etc" | 14:17 |
artemma | on harmattan that used to be freaking difficult and I ended up simulating a custom alarm clock handler that just happened to be invisible and doing "useful stuff" © in the background | 14:18 |
artemma | and since there is no info on app store yet, who knows how much an app can actually be allowed to do. Maybe normal apps can't have daemons or attach to scheduler in a headless way | 14:19 |
artemma | yeah.. so apparently my questions are no really technical, but more political "what's allowed, what's recommended for periodical headless execution" :) | 14:20 |
faenil | artemma, I have /etc/cron.daily in Nemo :) | 14:21 |
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artemma | and can your app add yourself to crontab? | 14:22 |
artemma | itself* | 14:22 |
faenil | don't know, not sure who's reading cron.daily | 14:22 |
faenil | as crond is not running | 14:22 |
faenil | and crontab say not found | 14:22 |
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artemma | hmm, looks similar to harmattan | 14:26 |
artemma | I have subtle memories about that I was happy discovering cron.daily and then figured it's not used :) | 14:27 |
artemma | or maybe my memory lets me down. Anyway cron wasn't really working there | 14:27 |
faenil | :) | 14:27 |
faenil | well, just have to wait for a guy from jolla to clear our doubts :) | 14:28 |
ericcc | when time guy from jolla will come:0 | 14:42 |
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Sfiet_Konstantin | ericcc: hello :D | 15:01 |
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ericcc | hi | 15:04 |
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faenil | for those interested in Nemomobile: https://twitter.com/faenil/status/385097188553940992 | 17:42 |
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artemma | Looking at Jolla device specs, it seems to mean device without the otherhalf (just 9.9mm thick) | 17:48 |
artemma | that makes me wonder if any otherhalf will be included. And what the weight will be like when a meaningful other half is added (just phone specs tell 141grams) | 17:49 |
faenil | artemma, I think that includes other half.... | 17:49 |
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faenil | both thickness and weight | 17:49 |
artemma | 9.9mm including otherhalf.. uhmm.. maybe if simplest possible half is used.. like just a cover | 17:50 |
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wmarone | or something that was nfc only | 17:51 |
wmarone | which is likely | 17:51 |
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