Friday, 2014-03-07

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razorrwassup sailfishOSer?00:10
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razorrI wonder Sailfish Slice components are opensource or not00:19
Yanielyou have a bit bad timing, most if not all people who really know about the details are probably asleep00:22
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razorrmaybe some of them woke up after bad dream :)00:31
YanielI assume s/Slice/Silica/00:32
razorrI heard about Silica QML may not be opensource, continuation MeeGo components!00:33
Yanielthat by "Slice" you actually meant "Silica"00:33
Yaniela substitution, if you will00:33
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Yaniel(because if you really meant Sailfish Slice then I have no idea what you are talking about)00:34
YanielSilica is not opensource at the moment as far as I know, but Jolla said they are working on that00:35
razorrIf Silica is opensource, android developers may begin to commonly use that too00:36
razorrSailfishOS can already run APK00:36
Yanielhave you read for example ?00:36
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razorrBlackberyOS has many development platforms, they also support android app devs, Qt...00:37
razorrSo if sailfishOS can also cares android development with slice components, it can be good.00:38
razorrdevelopers can publish their apps to both OS if so00:39
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Yanielthey can already use generic QML00:39
bencohgeneric qml for android ?00:40
bencohdidn't know one could do that00:40
YanielI was thinking about BB00:40
Yanielbut if there is Qt for android.. why not00:40
bencohif :)00:41
razorrI know, But it is not popular yet. one APK can have big size (includes qt5 libs..) but It can be work witth android and sailfishOS if it uses silica components00:41
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Yanielanyway I don't think Sailfish cares about being compatible with android in that direction00:41
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Yaniel(just me guessing)00:41
razorrsailfishos can follow Blackbery policy :)00:41
Yanielwhich is?00:42
razorrMulti dev platforms00:42
razorrjava, c++, Qt..00:42
Yanielwell there are already C++, QML, Python....00:43
EztranDalvik's generally been presented as a solution for apps which aren't getting a port to Sailfish, rather than a means to say 'look, I ported it, it runs'.00:43
razorrForexample, if SailfishOS can create a good documentation about how to run PyOtherSide for android and sailfishos, many developers can focus on this project00:44
Yanielwhy would Jolla care about PyOtherSide on android?00:44
razorrSO they dont have to buy PyQt license00:44
razorrbecause Python has rich libraries and it can be possible to develop apps with them. also it is opensource00:45
YanielI see why they would care about PyOtherSide or some equivalent on Sailfish00:45
razorrpyotherside opensource too00:45
Yanielbut not on android00:45
YanielPython already works00:45
Yanielon sailfish00:45
Yanielyou can't get python apps to the app store yet but it works00:46
razorryou mean google play store or sailfish store?00:46
YanielJolla's app store00:46
Yanielto be honest I probably couldn't care less about android00:47
YanielJolla obviously can (that's why they have drivers. and a bunch of apps at launch)00:48
razorrI explained my opinion for better future of sailfishos00:48
YanielI understood you want sailfish APIs to be ported to android?00:48
Yanielor something like that00:49
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razorrno I want sailfishOs QML components %100 opensource. So android can use those beautiful comonents with QT500:49
razorrthere is Qt5 for andorid which can active GPS, sensors... and sailfishOS can run android apps, so it would be portable to build one APK to both operating system00:51
razorrjust problem can be big size of apk becasue of including qt libs..00:51
Yanielthe point of the android support is not that you can just build an apk of your app and get it on both systems for free00:52
Yanielif you actually want to target sailfish you should still create a native package for it00:52
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razorrI may be wrong. I dont know sailfishOS exactly. just tested an emulator00:52
Yanielbesides, Silica would not integrate nicely into existing android user interfaces as-is00:53
EztranMmm, was thinking Android's UX is fragmented enough already without more components.00:53
Yanielit looks awkward already running apps in alien dalvik00:53
Yanielon a jolla00:53
razorrI see. forexample, MeeGo harmattan components works great with android (pyside-android)00:53
razorrSo I though sailfishos silica components also can work with android.00:54
YanielI don't want to see the mess of copying that too to hrm "enrich" the android UX00:54
Yanielin theory they could00:54
EztranAs Android differentiates from AOSP, too, Dalvik is going to have more trouble supporting apps.00:55
Yanielbut would it really look good on android? I am about 97% sure it would not00:55
Yanielnor would it feel nice00:55
razorrM4rtinK realized to use Meego components on android, maybe he can also realize to build silica components, as you said, it is not flexible for it.00:55
Yanielit certainly is possible to make Silica run on android00:56
Yanielto some extent00:56
razorryes it is hard.00:57
Yanielbut that is a bit like saying "hey elephants are cool and ferraris are cool so let's put a couple of elephants in a ferrari"00:57
razorrso android is not compatible with it because of hardware of device00:58
Yanieltechnically possible; but WHY would you do that00:58
Yanielno, the hardware is actually almost the same00:59
razorrI told meego components on android.. it works slow with 512mb ram, but it works very good with 1gb ram. I think there may be same issue with silica components. they made this for 1GB ram jolla00:59
Yanielthe problem is not if it would work *technically*00:59
razorrBecause Silica components are beautiful :)01:00
Yanielit would (potentially with some modifications to make it work with the qt version ported to android)01:00
Yanielbut it would end up looking & feeling like shit01:00
Yanielbecause it is about the last thing any android UI I have seen is like01:01
Yanielstarting with android's buttons at the bottom of the screen01:02
razorrWell, I am studying to build pyotherside for android. If succeed, I will try to use pyotherside for aandroid using meego components, or trying silica components..01:02
Yanieland Silica was designed to be used with jolla's ambience system01:02
Yanielwhich does not exist on android01:03
razorrchecked silica source, pure QML 2.0 and some c++01:03
Yanielyes, you could approximate it by hacking some way to access theme information (if that exists in your image)01:03
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Yanielwhere image == android ROM01:03
razorrbut problem is appsize may be more than 65 MB after installation :)01:04
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EztranThat's a problem right there.01:04
Yanielyou don't get what I'm saying at all, do you01:04
razorrsorry, what do you mean "where image == android ROM"01:04
razorrok ok01:05
razorrI got01:05
Yanielthe (heavily customized) version of android you are using01:05
razorrI use custom rom01:05
Yanieldoes it have the concept of a "theme"?01:06
Yanielspecifically one that defines highlight etc colors01:06
razorrI dont know well..01:06
Yanieldo all other android roms have that?01:06
razorrbut one of rom uses CM1001:06
Yanielthe same one even01:06
razorrYaniel: I mean, integrating QT5 clibs, python 3.3, python build headers in one APK. It is not about my rom01:07
razorrthink like running Qt creator for android device01:08
Yanielif you target android - I don't see how that is Jolla's problem01:08
razorrI tested pyside apk to another devices too01:08
Yanielif you target SailfishOS.. WTH are you making an apk01:08
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razorrIf i target android, sjolla already should run also apk01:09
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Yanielit may or may not work01:09
razorrI never tested android app, but I saw its properties01:09
Yaniela lot of apps apparently work01:10
Yanielbut you are not targeting sailfishos then01:10
Yanielit's like developing your apps only for windows because "meh linux and mac users can run it with wine anyway"01:10
razorrpyside-android may not work but pyotherside-for android ma work (if it is possible to use silica components)01:10
Yanielwhich is simply retarded01:10
razorrYes you are rignt01:11
Yanielespecially if you are writing python01:11
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Yanielyou don't even need to recompile anything (almost)01:12
Yanieljust generate a different package01:12
Yanielone for android with whatever you need to make it work01:12
razorrnowadays devices begin to produce commonly 1GB ram, so I think it wont be problem for 1GB ram devices01:12
Yanieland one for sailfish without qt and pyside01:12
razorrand many of them commonly 8GB memory or up. so app size may not important too01:13
EztranHaving resources does not mean you have to use them.01:13
Yanielor even should01:13
razorrYaniel:You are right, QT libs already in jolla01:14
YanielI don't see why you are so keen on running a virtual machine inside a virtual machine just to be able to run an emulator01:14
Yanielwhen you could just have a native app01:14
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EztranIt's a pretty common approach on Android, unfortunately, that 'hardware will make up for it'.01:14
razorrfor android app size may be 60mb, for sailfishos is 1-2 MB01:14
razorrEztran: right01:16
razorrNice to talk with you all01:17
razorrgood night :)01:17
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bencohthat was quite ... strange01:18
Yaniel...I still don't think he got what I was trying to say01:18
EztranThat was an interesting approach, to say the least.01:18
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EztranAlso, if your mobile app is approaching 60MB with no real content, something has gone wrong. IMO, anyway.01:18
Yanielsomewhere, something has gone VERY wrong01:18
bencohI think we're way past the wrong point ^^01:19
bencohanyway, 'night time :)01:19
Yanieland developing android apps (with python even) to run them on sailfish is IMHO just like I said:01:19
Yaniel"running a virtual machine inside a virtual machine just to be able to run an emulator to run your app"01:20
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EztranPerfect for a mobile platform.01:21
Yaniel(linux vm on windows so you can run virtualbox on linux to virtualise windows to run a java applet in your browser)01:21
Yanielwhen you could just make a desktop app for windows in the first place01:21
Yanielwith reasonable effort01:22
EztranI dunno, how would the effort compare to making Silica work on Android, though?01:22
Yanielthat I don't know01:23
YanielI was  thinking about developing apps for that01:23
Yanielmaking silica work should be reasonably easy for the most part01:24
Yanielas in up to the parts that interface with the system01:24
EztranIt'd certainly be interesting, but worthwhile?01:24
YanielI doubt it01:24
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svxshey all :> i've built an RPM package that i'd like to test now, but i can't figure out what to do... does anyone have any tips on how to get the SailfishOS Emulator VM to "run" my RPM (like how Qt creator would do it) by hand?01:40
svxsfor example - in Qt Creator you'd click on Run and it would start the VM, build and somehow copy the RPM file over, and then run the executable in the archive... i'd like to do that by hand since i've packaged my RPM myself01:42
Yanieldid you build a i486 or armv7hl rpm?01:43
svxsit's am armv7hl rpm01:43
zhxtI'm afraid that is not possible to run an arm version app on on i586 emulator...01:44
svxsit shouldn't be a bother to make an i486 rpm either... i'm not certain what architecture the VM runs01:44
svxsi'll make an i486 one then :> but what to do with it?01:45
zhxtssh to VM, then install it, find the launcher , click it. OR run it in the CLI.01:46
svxsthe install it part... ahh... what's the command? :p01:47
svxsi've never worked with rpm files before, sadly01:48
zhxtrpm -ivh XXXX.rpm01:48
* svxs facepalms01:48
zhxtor zypper in xxxx.rpm01:48
svxsoh, that makes sense01:48
svxsthanks :>01:48
zhxtyou're welcome.01:49
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Nicd-ln-: because some people might not want it to refresh automatically06:16
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ln-Nicd-: what kind of people?06:30
Nicd-well, when I first implemented it I figured it might cause unwanted wakeups for the phone, thus diminishing battery life06:33
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Nicd-now it seems the timers are pushed back to whenever the phone decides to wake up on its own, but I'm not going to refactor it out06:33
specialnormal timers like QTimer won't wake the phone if it's suspended06:34
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Nicd-but ln-, it's open source and liberally licenced, you're free to make a fork :)06:36
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ln-Nicd-: true, i could, but i still don't see what is the use case where people do not want auto-refresh.07:14
Nicd-to be honest I don't mind extra configurability in such a simple app07:16
Nicd-so it's not worth the effort to remove it07:17
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chriadamm4g0g: most of those apis aren't public yet.  that is, you can't use them.07:56
chriadamin many cases, it's because the APIs need more polish07:56
chriadamin some cases it's because they're not stable upstream (eg, QtPIM is a good example of that)07:56
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chriadamthe APIs which are available for use are documented.  and as more APIs are added to the supported list, they'll also have their documentation made just as good as the Sailfish Silica docs.07:56
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m4g0gchriadam: I wan to create picasa transfer engine pplugin but without docs it is very complex08:00
chriadamm4g0g: the APIs which you need to do that, may not be opened up yet.08:01
chriadambut actually, there are some docs for that:
chriadamthat one's actually quite well documented.  eg has good documentation of what's required for subclasses etc.08:03
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m4g0gchriadam: How I can test this via emulator? I mean transfer engine09:48
chriadamno idea09:48
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chriadamprobably better to try on a real device09:48
m4g0gI think I shold install gallery to emulator09:51
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Andy80so quiet the channel.... I hope Sailors are busy releasing the 1.0.4 :D13:59
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dodgeramreshi all15:07
dodgeramresi have a Problem with my Jollaphone15:08
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dodgeramresI can't adjust my volumetone15:08
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dodgeramresthe tone is always in the same loudness15:10
Stskeepsspeaker or earpiece15:10
dodgeramreshave everyone a idea?15:10
dodgeramresit is the normal speaker15:11
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dodgeramreswhen I listen music its ok15:11
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dodgeramresI have all regulators in the settings down15:18
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dodgeramresactually I shouldn't hear the rintone any more15:25
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dodgeramresbut when I slide with pullymenu of silenc sounds its ok15:28
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dodgeramresit is then quiet15:30
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Nightmare__the volume set by the hardware keys is only for multimedia(videoplayer for example), not ringtones15:37
leszekringtone volume changes can be done in the settings15:39
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jtjj222Sorry to appear so ignorant, but is there any news on Sailfish running on the nexus 4? I absolutely adore Sailfish, and I would love to know if there is a way I can help test it16:02
Stskeepssend sledges a /msg16:03
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Stskeepsjtjj222: we are signing up early adaptors and willb e rolling out in phases16:04
jtjj222Great! How do I sign up?16:05
Stskeepssending sledges a message..16:05
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jtjj222Ok, thanks16:05
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dodgeramresyes I understand, but this doesn't work any more16:06
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Stskeepsdodgeramres: consider sending care@ a mail16:07
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dodgeramressorry for my bad english...16:09
dodgeramresyes it is a new Jolla Phone16:09
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situIs there any equivalent of JSON.stringify(js_object) for C++ model in QML ?16:21
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sardinivar = var.toString();   ?16:24
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AL13N_jolla_i've had some ui hangs lately17:50
AL13N_jolla_while trying to call or something17:51
AL13N_jolla_in the end, i had to reboot17:52
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NokiusHi guys20:05
NokiusIs there someone who like to part this Password generator from harmanttan to SailfishOS?20:05
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Nokiusif some one like to port could help with icon (icon is ready)20:31
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slateisnt there a password generator out already for sailfish? I thought I saw one roaming around.20:35
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Nokius@slate not like this there is none which make from username and master pw and … but not just a simple PWGen :(20:55
SpeedEvilstrings /dev/random|dd bs=8 count=120:56
NokiusI know20:56
NokiusIIRC the app had an session history used it of new PW add work20:57
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NokiusWhat i saw in the SDK it looks like tht the Poblem it with meegotouch/MApplication in the main.cpp [but i'm not a dev :( ] not sure if its only a bit of Silica magic   ;)21:07
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pp_something like: def password(site, master): passwd = base64.b64encode(hashlib.sha512("%s:%s"%(site, master)).digest()).replace("+","").replace("/","")[0:16] setclipboard(passwd)21:19
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pp_localhost:~ pp$ python google21:20
pp_-> Z0uIR1pioqN68bZh :D (not my google password :-) )21:20
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