Monday, 2014-12-01

salyavinThus all LAS Android app picks.00:01
sledgesaironeous: it's not LAS that's online now, looks like Linux Unplugged00:01
aironeousoh ok00:01
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M4rtinKposted the link on twitter :)00:04
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aironeousmetrolink machine ate my $200 for monthly pass, ignored the last $20 bill and gave me a $180 refund voucher. It will take one month to get my money back. That means the money I was going to use for the Jolla tablet on my next paycheck on Dec 5th will go instead to a monthly pass00:09
aironeousi lit them up on twitter for that. I really wanted to contribute to the Jolla tablet campaign00:10
sledgessalyavin: yes, times have changed significantly with Android age; also the presence of many Windows-only ways to unlock android phones on XDA show that even hackers use windows, not many even know what Linux desktop distro is..00:11
sledgesM4rtinK: RTed\o/00:12
sledgesaironeous: ouch sorry to hear, let's hope campaign will be extended, especially for you :)00:12
M4rtinKslate: thanks :)00:13
aironeousI am very mad at Metrolink and made it very clear a number of times on Twitter00:13
sledgesaironeous: thanks to you we found out one of their hosts is using Sailfish on his Nexus5 ;)00:13
M4rtinKaironeous: wow, that's pretty expensive for a monthly pass00:13
M4rtinKaironeous: the yearly pass around here costs about 200$00:13
aironeousit's $215 from Oxnard to Moorpark and back00:13
M4rtinKand it is for the whole city00:14
aironeousunlimited travel on the weekend\00:14
M4rtinKand if you have the yearly pass you can take another adult person and two kinds with you on weekends and holidays00:15
aironeousi hope there is a way I can preorder later or cross my fingers my company gives me a christmas bonus00:15
M4rtinKbut we don't actually have any metro, just trams, buses and trolley buses00:15
aironeouswow M4tink that is cheap00:15
M4rtinKwell, I would say it could be cheaper :)00:16
aironeousi don't see why the Jolla Tablet can't put a WYSIPS panel as a stretch goal since the battery is so small00:17
M4rtinKBTW, students pay half as much but don't have that take-others-with-you-on-weekends/holidays perk00:17
aironeousthat would charge the battery and not require extensive rearranging of the insides00:17
M4rtinKprobably too new/expensive ?00:17
M4rtinKor might not sell to them in smaller volume00:18
aironeousthey have an office in China00:18
M4rtinKcould be other factors00:18
M4rtinKI'd rather see wacom/active pen support:
aironeousthey are doing small volume right now and will ramp up in August 201500:18
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M4rtinKI can still charge it or keep it plugged in00:19
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M4rtinKbut can't make it magically accept precise pen input with pressure sensing :)00:19
aironeousbut with a WYSIPS panel it just chrages itself and what do you do all the time with a tablet? You lay it down on a table in from of the lights00:19
M4rtinKbut still quite an interesting technology, that is for sure :)00:20
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aironeousimagine Jolla tablet has a WYSIPS panel and also a tiny LiFi sensor00:22
aironeousor maybe I should have phrased that differently00:23
salyavinThat makes me sad sledge00:23
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aironeousWYSIPS can act as LiFi receiver00:24
M4rtinKactually even having a simple powerful infraport would be nice :)00:24
M4rtinKwow, that's actually pretty clever :)00:24
aironeousfor me it is a compete no brainer you lay your tablet on the tablet on surfaces all the time where it can soak up energy and also receive LiFi00:25
aironeousOoops mistyped00:25
sledgessalyavin: tell me about it.. but can't blame anyone - school youth with time on their hands and only hackable droids around, what do you do :) if not libhybris, don't even want to think 8)00:25
sledgesif we would have many feasible alternatives00:26
salyavinYea even Ubuntu Touch has to use libhybris on most hardware.00:26
salyavinIf only Ubuntu Touch would multitask like Sailfish instead of iOS it would be more fun.00:27
sledgeslinux tried to find its way to consumer devices all this time, yet in embedded systems world it has no troubles thriving00:27
aironeous WYSIPS website let me try to find the youtube video of the WYSIPS using LiFi00:28
salyavinYea it's in my TV, blu-Ray, DVR, most of the world's phones00:29
sledgesso all of us GNU desktop users and embeded board BSP tinkerers come from different times/background if compared to the xda youth, serious trend-setting is in order :P00:29
aironeouswysips LiFi
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sledgessalyavin: still not talking about android ;) but yea, times of TI OMAP, Freescale, Xilinx, ... all had GNU/Linux SDKs. TI withdrew, others switch to Yocto, but main trend is, sadly, Android00:30
aironeouswiat this one is better00:30
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salyavinAndroid has a clunky interface and doesn't multitask well.  Most try to lock it down.  Not a full normal "Linux" (or GNU if you like) environment etc.00:31
salyavinand most carriers don't give more than a few updates and leave them hanging.00:32
sledgesbitrotting:) (new word learned recently)00:32
salyavinLack of updates are sad, like asking to have their customer's phones p0wned00:33
salyavinor tablets00:33
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M4rtinKBTW, about XDA youths00:34
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M4rtinKanybody remembers what XDA actually stands for ? :)00:34
sledgesi guess not for cross-(platform)-development-android :D00:35
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M4rtinKnope, it is actually quite older than Android :)00:36
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aironeousi remember when Android was just a suggestion and a play thing00:36
M4rtinKit used to be a site for tweaking the Windows Mobile 5.0 running MDA phone/PDAs00:36
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M4rtinKreleased ~200500:37
aironeousi remember trying it out on my desktop00:37
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M4rtinKI remember a friend with MDA showing the that website back then :)00:37
aironeousi can't remember I sighned up for some kind of group to try it out00:37
aironeousca'nt remember the name it was something like droid me or something like that00:38
salyavinCool.  My first mobile phone was an N900.  I carried Nokia internet tablet (on wi-fi SIP) and Sharp Zaurus for mobile computing before that.00:38
M4rtinKI was of course a Palm OS user back then :)00:38
M4rtinKI had the original Tungsten T, then Palm TX00:39
sledgeslinux on HP iPAQ H1930 is how i got into all this..00:39
* Aard had treo 270, treo 680 and finally centro until 201000:39
sledgesno way back:)00:39
M4rtinKalso had the Smart Q7 tablet (slowly) running Ubuntu for some time, helping testing (the original!) Mer releases :)00:40
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salyavinLinux came out when I was in uni when I was searching for a free UNIX to play with as I was programming on early AIX00:40
FireFlyMy first mobile phone was a Siemens MC60... after that a bunch of Nokias culminating in the N90000:40
M4rtinKand then directly to N900 in 201000:40
M4rtinKand the rest is history :)00:40
sledgesand ofc OpenMoko00:40
* Aard got his n900 (which was my first own nokia phone) from nokia while working on meego00:40
M4rtinKBTW, I still carry my 6610i as my main mobile phone for calling :)00:40
M4rtinKoh, right I also had a FreeRunner00:41
salyavinAwesome, I never got one of those but appreciate what they were trying to do.00:41
M4rtinKlent from school for my bachelors thesis (modRana :) )00:41
salyavinNot sure how far the Neo900 will get00:41
sledgeslike someone said, all failed linux phones are the result of where we are now00:42
M4rtinKbtw, one of the very few FreeRunners that got the navigation board installed00:42
sledgesso -nothing- was in vain00:42
M4rtinKpressure, sensor, gyroscpope, magnetic compass, additional I/O... :)00:42
salyavinN900 was so amazing.00:42
aironeousshould have kept my N900 back then one of my coworkers had my phone for hours playing numpty physics for a few weeks in a row he could not put it down00:42
sledgesnumpty physics ftw!!00:43
salyavinYou can still buy them you know00:43
M4rtinKactually the initial version of Rana (before I forked it to modRana) was developed for the FreeRunner :)00:43
M4rtinKso without OpenMoko, there might not have been any modRana! :)00:43
aironeousresistive screen made for a better numpty physics experience00:44
M4rtinKBTW, Numpty Physics ran quite nicely also on the FeeRunner - and Moko Maze as well! :)00:44
sledges^ is where i found out about np00:44
M4rtinKbut now the FreeRunner development seems to be really dead at least00:45
M4rtinKeven QtMoko seem to be in a limbo:
aironeousok well now we are at the age of VR anyone got a VR headset like I do? Can someone with a Jolla run an Android VR app and tell me if it works?00:45
aironeousI have this headset Link: and a HTC One00:47
salyavinMaybe you should make Jolla glasses00:47
aironeousthere are tooo tooo many VR start ups Fibrum, Cmoar a bunch of them00:47
sledgesand a piece of carton paper:)00:47
salyavinwow had no idea they are so cheap00:47
sledgessalyavin: google cardboard version ;)00:48
sledgesplastic costs extra $30 ;)00:48
aironeousthe CMOAR campaign failed but I feel it was/is the best one as it has one headset 3 sets of lenses, VR, AR, 2D widescreen movie watching00:49
salyavinThis item does not have the Magnet Parts so it can not control like the Google Cardboard 3D. But you can use this item view 3D movie and 3D game on your cellphone.00:49
salyavinaha you're not joking00:49
aironeousi do not think the magnet is practical00:49
aironeousit does not work on my HTC One because of the metal housing i"m guessing00:50
aironeousa gamepad like the moga is much better and I have played a number of games using it and the VR headset it is really immersive00:50
aironeousi had to tape some pupple wrap to the nose piece on my VR headset because I have a big nose00:52
aironeouswait let me take a picture and upload it to photobucket00:53
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aironeousThis is the Moga gamepad I use with the HTC One I am wondering if it will work with the next Jolla phone and a VR headset and a VR Android app00:59
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aironeous taped cushion to the nose area01:01
aironeousthere are a few games that are quite immersive and fun on the VR headset and an Android phone so I am wanting to share them with Jolla phone owners01:04
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aironeousSince Jolla owners can run Android games here are some VR game suggestions and tell me if any of these work on your jolla Vanguard V
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sledgesaironeous: I can suggest you to start a topic on where you could get answers of those interested regardless of their timezones01:08
aironeousFroggy VR (Multiplayer yes seriously)
aironeousoh good suggestion I will01:09
sledgesalso good opportinity to create a jolla account if you haven't one yet;)01:09
aironeousi have one01:09
sledgesfrom sailfish on android devices project;)01:10
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aironeousi had a N900 an N9 an N95 8GB and an N810 I am a fan of this line of linux creativity01:10
aironeousoh yeah and an n801:10
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aironeousok bye then01:11
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aironeousjupiter broadcasting has started a new show just for women in tech called women's tech radio please ask Carol and any other females in Jolla willing to volunteer for an interview
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salyavinYou can ewach Carol easily yourself03:26
aironeousi already tweeted her but don't know the other females of Jolla03:30
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salyavinFprgot jer name but another is listed on under community I think.03:36
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aironeous<salyavin> ok tweetiing her now03:42
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m4g0gI use Text to display rich text.07:25
m4g0gI have this part of text:07:25
m4g0g<ul  style="list-style: none;font-size: 12px;"><li> <!--noindex--><a rel='nofollow' class="colorbox" title="" href="" ><img src="" width="07:25
m4g0g<ul  style="list-style: none;font-size: 12px;"><li> <!--noindex--><a rel='nofollow' class="colorbox" title="" href="" ><img src="" width="07:26
m4g0g - this part of text07:26
m4g0gbut Text draw this picture over text and this image covers part of item. Why? How to fix position of the image?07:27
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m4g0git shows like this:
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coderus(have you mooed today?)08:38
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gogetamorning coderus08:40
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stephgcoderus: not yet!08:43
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coderusm4g0g: use webview or parse html to lines08:58
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Juubasooo, is there a solution to why the Sailfish loses "log in" to some services09:01
Juubafor me it's google09:01
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Juubaalmost daily the Settings - Accounts says that Google "Not Signed In"09:02
Juubaemails still come thru tho'09:02
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SK_workchriadam: ^09:05
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Juubathis seems to be similar...
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gogetahi SK_work09:58
SK_workmorning gogeta09:59
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gogetadid you know the list with fixed header like ios or android addressbook ?10:00
gogetaan example10:00
gogetathere is something already done10:01
gogetain qml or silica10:01
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SK_workgogeta: why would you do this :)10:03
SK_work(IMO) useless eye candy10:03
SK_workand no, no example :(10:03
gogetatell to my gf10:03
gogetasailgrande need that in some ways10:03
SK_workhow come ?10:03
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SK_workin sailfish, there shouldn't be any fixed headers but well10:04
SK_workdon't know how to do this at all :(10:04
SK_workexcept huge hacks10:04
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gogetain bb10 is pushed in tat listview10:04
gogetaand is pure qml10:04
TemeVDidn't mitäkuuluu have static header10:04
TemeVin the chat view10:05
gogetawhile scrolling ?10:05
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TemeVyes, I think so10:05
gogetais not the exsact thing10:05
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SK_workyep, it's not the exact same thing :(10:05
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SK_workthe fact is that you need to know the section header component coordinates10:06
SK_workand btw, BB10 have their own components, not compatible with QtQuick10:06
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TemeVOh, I missed the example pic. Yeah, not the same10:06
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coderusgogeta: listView.section.labelPositioning: ViewSection.CurrentLabelAtStart ?10:10
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gogetai need to test10:11
gogetacoderus, lil ot you got 32inch lg ?10:11
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gogetayour lg tv10:13
coderusi have 4210:13
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gogetaze is for russian market ehehe10:15
gogeta320 euros10:16
gogeta+ shipping10:17
gogetatoday is the third time i've lost folders in 2 month10:18
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SK_workcoderus: didn't knew of this property (for sections)10:29
SK_worklooks nice10:29
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coderusSK_work: qt5 feature :)10:52
SK_workcoderus: yay10:52
coderusQtQuick 2.x10:52
SK_workmy Qt 5 QML features is a bit rusty10:52
SK_workdone too much harmattan10:52
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zGrrmoin :)10:53
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gogetafinally tizen ... but on buget ..
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erikn42hi, my new sd card just arrived. is the wiki article pn sd cards still up-to-date with the mount point being moved some versions ago?12:25
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erikn42does it make sense to move /home to the sd card, or is it too much of a hassle?12:49
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sandsmarkaren't SD-cards kind of slow?12:53
sandsmarkat least compared to internal storage12:53
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Stskeepsit'll probably not happily boot up12:53
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coderuserikn42: why move home?13:04
erikn42that have more space for music and pictures all neatly packed into my home13:05
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coderuswhy keeping music and pictures  in home and not in sdcard directly?13:06
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erikn42that's how i'd do it on all my other linux devices if they only had 16gig on root13:07
erikn42apart from tjat i don't really see a reason13:08
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erikn42how do i configure the media app. it can't set a library folder and ot wont find my music that i put onto home..13:11
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sandsmarkdoesn't it find it?13:14
sandsmarkI thought it used Tracker13:14
sandsmarkwhich should index Everywhere(tm)13:14
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erikn42i just noticed: something went wrong at the file transfer. jave to check again when I'm home from work13:21
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MatziOkay... I have one newbie question about exit code 127. Does it mean that I must install additional packages on MerSDK build engine? Or am I completely lost...13:34
SK_workMatzi: what did you do ?13:35
SK_workisn't 127 failure to connect or something like that ?13:35
SK_workwhat's inside the app output console ?13:35
MatziTried to build project and it gives me "No such file or directory" -statement13:35
Matziand remote application finished with exit code 12713:36
MatziThere's said (end of the page) something about installing packages13:37
Matzibut does it mean that i should install those on build engine13:37
Matzii'm trying to build this:
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meklu127 means command not found13:40
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sandsmarkMatzi: why do you want to build it yourself?13:43
Matzigetting something to start with in my own project - i think that's the basic reason13:45
sandsmarkfile -> new?13:46
sandsmarkand choose the project13:46
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sandsmarkhmm, though that should be pretty straightforward13:47
Matzii'm not so familiar with i2c so i thought that would be nice :P13:47
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Matzisounded interesting concept and therefore i ordered jolla13:47
Matziis there a tutorial for using i2c in sailfish os environment?13:49
Matzior something like that13:49
mekluping kimmoli ^13:50
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kimmoliMatzi: check the spec file EOL, CR/LF13:54
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kimmoliand it is also available in store13:58
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kimmoliand for writing own apps, i suggest using driverBase class by skvark , e.g here
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carepackhey guys, got my jolla today. Everything is fine but can someone advice me to get carddav working? I have all my contacts there14:38
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daithefluhi guys, I have a n00b question : I have a SilicaListView with several items, and when I click on one of these items, I want to push a "DetailsView" : when/where should I load the data displayed in the DetailsView ? :/15:00
Accecan you elaborate on that?15:01
Accewhat do you mean by loading it?15:01
Accepassing the data to the new page?15:01
lukedirtwalkermaybe show some code15:01
SK_workdaitheflu: you need to use the properties of pageStack.push15:02
daithefluFor my ListView I just load the minimum amount of data15:02
SK_workpageStack.push(Qt.resolvedUrl("DetailedPage.qml"), {data:})15:02
daitheflushould I load everything ?15:02
SK_workand in DetailedPage have "property var data"15:02
Acceuhmm you should load it when you want to show it?15:03
SK_workthis property will be set automatically15:03
Accethen just show some loading animation, like busy indicator while it loads?15:03
daithefluSK_work: so everything is already loaded when I'm the ListView ? I thought it was some kind of bad practice :)15:03
SK_workdaitheflu: depends on what you load15:04
daithefluAcce: I can't use a BusyIndicator : I'm using Qt.LocalStorage and I can't use a WorkerScript with this :(15:04
SK_workif your model only loads some name and id, pass the id and name, and then in detailedPage load it15:04
SK_workwhy can't you use a BusyIndicator ?15:05
daitheflumaybe I could :/15:06
daitheflubut that's not the real problem here15:06
AcceTry to explain your problem bit more in detail. Are you loading something huge and the UI hangs or something?15:07
ZuccaAlright. Time to install Sailfish to my Nexus 7 (grouper). Wish me luck.15:07
AcceZucca: may the force be with you15:08
ZuccaThanks. :)15:08
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SK_workdaitheflu: I think you can15:08
SK_workespecially with Qt 5.2 the busyindicator is multithreaded15:08
SK_workanimator ftw15:08
daithefluit's a tasks list, so I think it could be pretty long. Each task has a description, and can have a due date and time, a project, annotations, tags, dependencies...15:09
SK_workdaitheflu: two solutions15:10
SK_work1. use C++ to write a threaded (and threadsafe) way to retrieve data15:10
SK_work2. test localstorage and the busyindicator and see if it works15:10
daithefluin the details view, I just want to show the label when a value is set (if no due date, don't show the "Due date : ......." label)15:11
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daithefluand I'd like to know if can avoid writing a big "refreshUI()" function that would set the visible property + value for each label15:13
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daithefluSK_work: C++ is not an option for me :(15:14
Accewhy would you want to write something like that?15:14
SK_workdaitheflu: how do you do your stuff ?15:14
SK_workfor what I understand you have one localstorage15:14
SK_workand you load this in a model to get a list of tasks15:14
SK_work(with tags etc.)15:14
daithefluAcce: because if I don't, QML tells me that it can't access a property of a null object :)15:14
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SK_workto load the main model, you perform a nice query, and fill your model accordingly (fetching only id, name, tags (?) for the model)15:15
SK_workwhen clicking on the delegate to push details, you select the info when page is pushed15:15
SK_workdaitheflu: show some code15:15
daitheflufor now, for the ListView I just load the task id + the task description15:15
daithefluwhen I click on an item, I pass the task id15:16
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daithefluon the DetailsView, I load all the data for this specific task via the onTaskIdChanged handler15:16
Acceand where do you get the null object complaintment?15:16
Accewhen trying to load your data?15:17
SK_workdaitheflu: what's this onTaskIdChanged ?15:17
SK_workyou can use Component.onCompleted, if the properties has been passed via pageStack.push15:17
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daithefluI'd rather upload the code on github someday15:17
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SK_workdaitheflu: the DetailedPage and "Main" page15:18
SK_workshould be enough :)15:18
daithefluSK_work: the DetailsView has a "property int taskId"15:18
Accethe null object thingy sounds like you're referring to an object which is automatically destroyed when the listview becomes non-visible15:18
daithefluand I switch to the DetailsView with pageStack.push(..., {taskId: taskId})15:18
Accesince the listview dynamically creates the delegates, depending on if they should be visible or not.. but not sure, since no idea how've you done it :)15:19
SK_workdaitheflu: show the DetailsView code15:19
daithefluAcce: wrongly, obviously :D15:19
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daithefluyep, just let me polish it a bit, it's become a mess15:19
daitheflupasted on
SK_workgot it15:26
SK_workyou are using task.status in the pulley menu even if the task might be null15:26
daithefluI always have troubles when it comes to loading data with QML, I really need to understand that once for all15:26
SK_workso, 2 solutions here15:26
SK_workyou are not doing it badly15:26
daithefluSK_work: in the pulley + others places15:26
SK_workexcept the refreshUI that is not useful here15:26
daithefluah :)15:27
SK_workyou can easily bind description.text with task.description15:27
SK_workjust leave the bindings at it, keep most of the stuff declarative15:27
daithefluokay, I'm giving it a try15:28
SK_worksame for the getStatus, getPriority15:28
SK_workbind everything, it sjhouldn't change much15:28
SK_workinstead of visible: task.status === ... better consider hiding the parent component (the silicaflickable)15:29
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SK_workha, sorry, they are visible for different reasons15:30
daithefluSK_work: yep, basically, I just show them if the user set a value15:30
SK_workinstead of having onTaskIndexChanged, should cosider using Component.onCompleted15:30
SK_workthe taskIndex won't change during the life of the component15:31
SK_workand if you don't want cannot read status of null, consider using15:31
SK_workvisible: task != null ? task.status === "something" : false15:31
SK_workQt.rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.2) => replace this with Theme.secondaryColor15:32
SK_workor something like this15:32
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daithefluthanks a lot :)15:33
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daithefluseems like it's working :D Thanks a lot guys ( SK_work, Acce ) !15:44
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Accenp, although I didn't do much in the end :) hope to try your app soon16:02
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* Zucca has succesfully installed SailfishOS on his Nexus 7 grouper.16:19
AcceZucca: cool :) how's the scaling?16:21
ZuccaAcce: Not very accurate it seems.16:22
ZuccaI guess I need to install latest update...16:23
Accewell, I'm not sure if for example the scaled icons were even there yet.. but they were mentioned to be in the works16:24
Accesome time ago16:24
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ZuccaHm. What's the default password for nemo?16:56
ZuccaI need to change it.16:56
urjamanthe one you set in the remote access configuration thingy16:56
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Nicd-in dev mode settings16:57
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Nicd-would be nice to get screenshots16:58
Nicd-I'd like to see what sailtime looks on that :D16:58
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daitheflugotta go, thanks again for your help, see you tomorrow for another newbie question ;)17:15
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jwalckhey, anyone else using addons with the built in sailfish browser? about:addons sticks at a spinning wheel for me under Uitukka17:20
jwalckand I cannot scroll on the page at all, just see the top left in either portrait or landscape17:21
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