Saturday, 2014-12-13

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sandsmarkhmm, has anyone tried building a grsec kernel for the jolla?00:10
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specialsandsmark: what are you interested in from grsec, in particular?00:23
sandsmarkwell, nothing in particular, but it blocks a lot of common attack vectors00:24
sandsmarkuderef would be really nice00:24
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sandsmarkactual aslr is also nice :)00:29
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HBP_the common attack vector on mobile is the stupidity of the user, I think01:07
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ShadowJKConsidering that, even on Jolla, even such a simple thing as flasighliht, turned out to be bad01:15
ShadowJK... I believe it's impossible to stop malware with the current methods, regardless of platform01:16
ShadowJK.. And how was user supposed to know not to download the flashlight app? hm?01:18
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ShadowJKAndroid as a whole has the issue of "Yes, it's bad, if you don't like it, don't use it"01:22
ShadowJKIn the case of flashlight app, once it was revealed, the author relented and gave up, replacing spyware app with clean app01:23
ShadowJKBut "peer pressure" only worked because sailfish is small enough01:23
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sandsmarkShadowJK: true, proper sandboxing/permission system would be good as well04:05
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sandsmarkgah, silica makes me feel so stupid04:39
sandsmarkI want a page that disappears when the user swipes back from it04:40
sandsmarkbut if I call destroy() when the state is inactive, silica starts complaining about properties it can't set, and if I try to pop the page stack, it says I can't do it in the middle of an animation :V04:41
sandsmarkand if it is a dialog, and I reject it, it isn't removed from the page stack04:46
sandsmark(it was me being stupid)05:08
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tbrboth on a platform and individual application level07:16
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DiosDelRayotbr I read this about wbc and beside that it is a really bad idea to store keys of any sort in an application I think it can never make something else then hide, and if you hide something you can still find it. So maybe an attacker would need a little bit more time to get the key, but in the end he will get the key if he has access and controll over the system. so imho I think is waste of ressources. key should in my opinion simply never07:50
DiosDelRayobe hardcoded.07:50
tbrDiosDelRayo: I agree, generally. API keys with rules attached to them to "never disclose", while not making sense, are a reality though.07:51
DiosDelRayoyep, API keys are a big mess. Good that I never used some :)07:55
tbrI'm still thinking of how we could solve the distribution problem for building software that needs such keys on OBS.07:58
DiosDelRayowhat kind of software really need something like that? facebook-apps, youtube-apps,....?08:04
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DiosDelRayoanyway in an open system you can store it simply open and put in the file that api-keys which must be distributed to different clients is still stupid and the problem of the party which fore you to do so.08:08
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tbrputting keys in the open gets them revoked, however stupid you may find that, real life is a bitch08:10
DiosDelRayoI think something like that should be anyway implemented ;)08:10
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DiosDelRayoIt's also something I miss really on my Jolla at the moment08:11
DiosDelRayoan other question, is there a unique id you can rely on the Jolla and in future on the Jolla Tablet?08:12
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tbrI think we had that topic at some point and identified a few things. I'm not sure if there is an official to the OS way.08:14
DiosDelRayoI was thinking about that after I installed tonight an from the Warehouse DeviceId and get ther Device Id xxxxx - Not unique08:14
* tbr doesn't go anywhere near warehouse08:14
* DiosDelRayo goes for a walk, his kidney hurt like hell08:17
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tbrwharehous is an amalgamation of random binaries of unknown provenance passed off as legitimate. No QA, no rules, just upload random stuff, no traceable source code.08:23
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Morpog_PCjust like jolla harbour08:24
* Morpog_PC hides08:24
coderustbr: ifharbour can be less restrictive for at least obs builds it will make sense :)08:25
coderusbut you know08:25
coderuswe decided it many times08:25
coderusand we're all know reasons :)08:25
coderusdiscussed i mean :)08:25
coderusother half of my brain didnt wake up yet :D08:26
tbrsure, I'm just restating my point and it hasn't changed a bit.08:26
tbrDiosDelRayo was not part of those conversations, so it might be new for him.08:26
coderusBasilSemuonov always saying obs - openrepos bridge almost done08:26
coderusbut he always busy to test and launch it :D08:27
* Morpog_PC whips BasilSemuonov 08:27
coderusif you choose obs in openrepos, you can't upload random binaries to application, and it will be marked with OBS TRUSTED tag :)08:28
coderusand you can setup warehouse to display only trusted stuff :D08:28
tbrI belive I've stated that before, this still doesn't address many other issues08:28
tbrsomething being built on OBS doesn't make it more trusted08:29
coderustbr: but well, many of yours can use warehouse then :D08:29
Morpog_PCtbr, well even apps in harbour could have nasty stuff deep hidden08:29
coderusyou say "cannot trace source code" :D08:29
coderusMorpog_PC: thats true08:29
tbrcoderus: yes, but that is not my only criticism. Addressing ONE point doesn't make the WHOLE problem go away.08:30
coderusi'm doing this to make my app pass QA :D08:30
coderustbr: sure08:30
tbrcoderus: go back to square one, don't pass start, don't collect trust bonus08:30
coderusit just makes easier to check sources/maintainer and decide :)08:30
tbrit is small step in the right direction, yes08:30
tbrand as you said, we've had this discussion before, unless you are bringing something new to the table there is no need to go through this.08:31
coderusi never say it solves all problems :)08:31
Morpog_PCwarehouse could have a chum section where only QA'ed apps appear from obs08:31
coderusjust saying about some improvements pending :)08:31
coderusMorpog_PC: openrepos can be setup to show applications only from trusted section of obs08:32
tbrto sum this up, there's nothing new. Caveat emptor wrt Wharehouse.08:32
* Stskeeps looks at coffee machine08:32
coderusand yes we can create own obs openrepos_trusted section08:32
coderusand do QA here :)08:32
tbrwe can close this discussion, if anyone wants to go through this, they can look at the previous logs on this. nothing new.08:32
coderustbr: EXACTLY :)08:33
Morpog_PCtbr, sure but you tell newcomers always your points about warehouse08:33
Morpog_PCthey don't know the whole discussion08:34
tbrMorpog_PC: yes, because even more often people will say "just go to whorehouse" it fixes everything, without clarifying anything08:34
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tbrMorpog_PC: and I'm happy to point out the previous discussions, as you noticed08:35
tbrMorpog_PC: people need to be aware and I don't think they are08:35
coderustbr: but well, now my eyes are blind and i see only: "i'm not using any of your apps from openrepos" :D08:35
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Morpog_PCbut in the other side there are well known and trusted community developers and even jolla sailors publishing apps there. Should we really warn about these too?08:36
tbrmaking informed decisions is important on a platform that emphasizes privacy amont other things08:36
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tbrMorpog_PC: they do so as private people, this does not add any legitimacy to the platform as a whole, it rather subverts it.08:36
Morpog_PCcommunity devs like coderus are always private persons08:37
DiosDelRayoOTGi lost some parts Ehen i switched oder, is there a way to read what happened before I got connected on  a channels?08:37
Morpog_PCDiosDelRayo, there are oublic logs08:38
tbrMorpog_PC: I will always warn about the platform due to its inherent risks. It is about making informed decisions. If someone trusts someone because they are a sailor or santa claus, then they should carefully install _exactly_ those apps. Making sweeping statements like you just did, legitimizing a platform by pars pro toto is outright irresponsible and dangerous.08:38
DiosDelRayoOTGbut inside irc is no Commando to get 5 min before, not.08:39
Morpog_PCwell, I don't always see the world as black and white only. Seems we won't comply on that discussion ever :)08:40
Morpog_PCDiosDelRayo, not that I know of08:40
coderusMorpog_PC tbr we should really end this discussion08:40
coderusi agree: there are nothing new we can tell now08:41
DiosDelRayoOTGthanks a lot, got it :)08:41
coderusMorpog_PC: even mitakuuluu have small part of code not opensourced, but contains it in binaries on openrepos.08:42
coderusit can contain malwares :D08:42
kimmolii have noticed few tweets containing dropbox link and "beta-test my game, download here"08:43
coderusat the other side webOS TV Remote application contains hidden parts of code, hidden from QA to successfully pass it, and this parts contains coll stuff making application better, but these parts are not legal for Harbour :D08:43
Morpog_PCbtw nice app there coderus tried it on my dads LG08:43
Morpog_PCmouse support could need a bit acceleration08:44
Morpog_PCAt least on that 4K TV :D08:44
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coderusMorpog_PC: well, i don't want to add any settings, but maybe just some trigger enabling acceleration - yes :)08:46
coderusMorpog_PC: ping me when you will be in your dads home08:47
coderusi need to get some tv configs08:47
coderusprobably i can just enable/disable acceleration based on this08:47
DiosDelRayoOTGHm, short thought, what makes me trust companies Mord then "private" person?08:47
coderusMorpog_PC: detect high resolution and enable acceleration08:47
coderusDiosDelRayoOTG: because of QA procedure for apps08:48
Morpog_PCcoderus, I am there atm08:48
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tbrDiosDelRayoOTG: I wouldn't even think of it in that perspective. In most cases it's some sort of conventions and process that can create trust08:49
tbrprocess adds overhead and "problems" for developers, so they hate it08:49
tbrfrom a developer perspective it's so much nicer if you just build a RPM, upload it and are done.08:50
tbrwe had quite interesting discussions on that topic in Tampere at NewFactory a while ago08:51
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DiosDelRayoOTGi think it's a big missery nowadays that "we" trust Mord in laws, rules, organizations, companies, "experts" and "authorities" instead trusting in persons08:51
coderusMorpog_PC: are you on linux pc?08:53
Morpog_PCnope, but well I got a Jolla :D08:53
DiosDelRayoOTGi changing my life and thia process leads me also to Jolla, back to OSS.08:53
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coderusMorpog_PC: well, you need some ssdp sniffer08:53
tbrif you look closer at OSS, you'll find an immense emphasis on trust in conventions and processes, abstracting the trust relationship by many levels away from you08:54
Morpog_PCI could get some ubuntu in virtualbox08:54
Morpog_PCor fedora08:55
coderusMorpog_PC: pm08:55
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DiosDelRayoOTGi personally decided to trust only in people. and if there is no personal contact then you can only trust in what someone die and not what someone declare so open source is a essential part oft trust.08:57
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tbrDiosDelRayoOTG: out of interest, how many authors of open source software that is on your computer do you personally know and trust?09:00
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DiosDelRayoOTGnot one. but I can, if I want read the source.09:01
tbrmy point being, you are vesting trust in a structured process and community, if you install a linux distribution. It is not a person, it is many layers of abstraction.09:01
DiosDelRayoOTGI used almost 10 years apple products. how many apples workers I know personally? also none. but can I verify their promises? no, I cant09:02
tbrthat does not invalidate my argument, this is a tangential point09:03
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DiosDelRayoOTGI was writing before I read ;) but anyway, I used often a piece of code which was not in a distribution to get things work, I haven't even read the source code sometimes, but the existence of the sour…09:06
DiosDelRayoOTG…ce, which you compile or can compile gives in my opinion a trust, because people with bad intention normally try to hide there acts09:06
DiosDelRayoOTGso a process, organization, company or whatever don't give me more trust09:07
DiosDelRayoOTGif I want to get something bad on apples appstore I can succeed if I put enough effort inside. so why I should trust?09:09
DiosDelRayoOTGit's the same in real world, you think laws or rules change people and there acts? I don't think so. the only thing what it's changing is the power of people in the structure of the system.09:11
DiosDelRayoOTGI personally would never trust a policeman only because he has a badge, contrary if he needs a badge my trust is already gone.09:12
DiosDelRayoOTGI think this relying on processes and organizations make the thing so bad in Germany and the rest of the world.09:13
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DiosDelRayoOTGhm, looks like I said something wrong. now everybody is quit here :S I'm probably to extreme.09:24
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r0kk3rzpresumably this qmltype works?10:17
r0kk3rzgetting a could not resolve prototype in qtcreator10:17
r0kk3rzand doesnt seem to show anything in the app10:18
Nicd-qtcreator complaining is normal10:19
r0kk3rzwait it does work10:20
r0kk3rzjust doesnt show the label like i expected it to10:20
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r0kk3rzah, really needs the width property being set10:26
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r0kk3rzpresumably there is still no silica version of filepdialog10:54
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mekluthe existing supposed file dialogs are too abstract and pander to the 'library' generation of file management :/10:59
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mekluand also only pick up media files and documents11:00
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Yanieladded an idea to that question11:00
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Yanieljust a rought concept but please add your thoughts on it11:03
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r0kk3rzi want to pick a directory in a settings menu11:17
r0kk3rzi might settle for a text field where the user can type it in11:17
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r0kk3rzbut would be nice if it had some autocomplete or GUI way of doing it11:17
r0kk3rzwithout having to roll my own11:18
r0kk3rzmight write a small library11:18
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r0kk3rzive already got a recursing menu GUI i could probably use a filesystemmodel for11:21
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coderusr0kk3rz: there is should be browser internal filepicker11:27
coderusyou can reuse11:27
mekluthe browser file picker is abstract11:29
mekluit lets you select media and documents11:29
r0kk3rzcoderus: any code examples?11:29
meklu(the stuff from import Sailfish.Pickers 1.0)11:29
r0kk3rzsounds useful11:30
mekluI had a similar sounding use case11:30
mekluwanted to do folder selection but opted for a text field (for now)11:31
r0kk3rzbasically i want the user to be able to tell me where their music lives11:31
r0kk3rzso i can filter out everything else11:31
mekludoesn't seem like it's possible with the stuff in Sailfish.Pickers11:32
mekluunless they secretly added something sensible in Uitukka11:32
mekluit gives you media listings11:32
mekluit's like the gallery app but selection-only11:32
r0kk3rzi'll take a look11:33
r0kk3rzmight be useful, might not be11:33
mekluit'll take you straight to the specific media type if you specify that hint or use the right kind of component11:33
meklucan't quite recall the semantics11:33
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coderusr0kk3rz: i not used it11:34
coderusr0kk3rz: check browser qml11:34
meklucoderus: it gives you a list of media files11:35
meklucoderus: it's not a real file picker11:35
r0kk3rzyeah i dont really want a file picker as such, more a directory picker11:36
r0kk3rzmaybe filter out some directories that wont be useful like /dev /etc11:36
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coderusr0kk3rz: just create your own then with QDirIterator11:41
r0kk3rzi think thats the go11:42
r0kk3rzroll it together into a small library so people can reuse11:42
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coderuskimmoli: can you tell about funky led emitting toh software?12:27
kimmolicoderus: still heavily WIP12:28
kimmolibut i can tell, what you want to know?12:29
coderuskimmoli: like disco features based on gstreamer :)12:29
coderuskimmoli: and amilight backlight based on ambience :D12:30
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kimmolihmm... wonder where the repo is...12:33
kimmoliah it was on my own private server12:34
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kimmoliwhich is few commits behind. fu.12:37
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urjaman+   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~14:21
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coderuskimmoli: also what status of eInkTOH?16:09
kimmolicoderus: waiting for time to look for better display16:10
kimmoliand reply from one supplier... reluctant to reply16:10
coderuskimmoli: cool16:14
coderusit will be better than toholed 100x16:14
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ln-"Error fatal: There is no update candidate for harbour-paint-0.5-1.armv7hl"16:14
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kimmolicoderus: no16:15
kimmolimaube 1.2x16:15
kimmoliln-:  ?16:15
kimmoliln-: uninstall and re-install. i moved to mer-obs, and vendor in rpm changed16:16
ln-oh, a known problem then... ok, i'll reinstall.16:18
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coderuskimmoli: at least for power it should be 1000x better :D16:35
kimmolinot necessarily16:36
kimmoliupdate takes power16:36
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muppisHello there.  I tried to install SDK 1407 to Ubuntu 15.04, but it fails with TypeError: Result of expression 'version' [undefined] is not an object. Any workaround?16:42
coderusmeklu: what fails? installation? sdk? applicatoin deployment?16:43
muppisSDK installation right after first Next -click.16:44
muppisBacktrace: <anonymous>()@://metadata//org.merproject/installscript.qs:107'16:44
coderusif you didn't get answer here quickly try mailing list16:45
muppisI'm not that hurry. :)16:45
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muppiscoderus, any roadmap about Whatsapp?16:49
meklucoderus: bad tabbing? :D16:50
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sandsmarkhum, my Dialog seems to get accepted immediately when I show it, without me clicking on it?17:49
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sandsmarkis it a bad idea to have one dialog on top of another?18:00
Nicd-why does your confirmation need a confirmation?18:00
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sandsmarkbecause I need two full-screen contents, and none of them should be permanent18:04
sandsmarkfirst one to edit the picture, second one to select recipients18:04
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sandsmarkotherwise I'm not sure how to close the first page when the dialog is accepted (trying to pop it when the accepted signal is triggered only tells me I can't pop during animations...)18:16
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sandsmarkdoes org.nemomobile.thumbnailer work? for video files?19:07
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sandsmarkyo :D19:24
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ulvusdoh, or are this not the simpsons channel ! rofl19:28
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ulvushomer simpsons says doh.19:36
ulvusHi sandsmark19:37
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nadleyhi all20:46
ulvushi again nadley20:51
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coderusmeklu: yeah... my tabs are wrong sometimes :D :D20:57
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coderusmuppis: mid-end on January as i suppose.20:58
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qt_junkieHi, does Jolla Store accept applications that sniff D-Bus? I was working on application that has to listen to incoming SMS messages, but now I'm wondering if it wil be accepted.21:19
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anYcHi, can I somehow backup a RPM on the jolla that I want to replace with a patched RPM?21:27
anYcrpm --repackage doesn't work21:27
tbrwhy not pkcon download?21:28
anYcI'm not familiar with all these stuff yet. so I thought making a backup would be a safe choice. If pkcon will find the same package I'm fine with that, thank you21:31
anYc"this stuff"21:31
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coderusqt_junkie: listening dbus is permitted22:34
coderusanYc: once installed rpm you can't reconstruct it from device files22:35
coderusanYc: get it from repository if you (really?) need this22:35
coderusanYc: i mean why you need this if you can always reinstall it from repository anyway?22:35
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anYcI wasn't sure if I can simply download it again. I'm new to Mer/SFOS23:05
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anYcyay, got carddav sync working with owncloud without having to set rewrite rules on the server23:08
coderusits linux23:08
coderusall stuff in repos23:08
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anYcnot every pkg in sfos :)23:09
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anYcwell, doesn't matter now. thank you all, I will post a pull request tomorrow.23:11
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