Wednesday, 2015-03-04

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LexSfXcan/should i install sailfishos on my x86 desktop machine on a separate drive?  i want to try an alternative os to windows.  i know how to install OSes, assuming there's a decent installer02:48
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LexSfXi want to try it natively, on the real machine, not a virtual machine.  is this possible and/or recommended?02:53
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Juubahmmm, my btrfs sdcard is mounted readonly, how-to fix ?04:15
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jaacoppi LexSfX I don't think sailfish is something you want to try as an alternative to windows06:06
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LexSfXjaacoppi: is it only for dicking around with on a telephone?06:07
jaacoppiin practise, yes06:08
jaacoppiif you want a desktop OS go with a desktop linux, bsd, haiku or something like that06:08
coderusLexSfX: on touchscreen device :)06:08
LexSfXcoderus: why limit it to those?06:09
LexSfXi guess just to avoid having to handle all the different hardware06:09
coderusLexSfX: because its os for touchscreen devices06:09
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LexSfXthat's circular reasoning06:09
coderusLexSfX: no06:10
LexSfXjaacoppi: thank you for the info  :)06:10
LexSfXcoderus: "Why is it limited to touchscreen devices?"  "Because it's limited to touchscreen devices."06:10
jaacoppibecause it's designed to be06:11
coderusLexSfX: because its designed for touchscreen use :)06:11
jaacoppiyou can install it to a desktop machine and then ssh to it, but that's not a desktop machine anymore as I define it06:12
Nicd-the Sailfish UI paradigms won't work at all on desktop06:12
jaacoppibesides, I think x86 is not supported anyway, it's armv706:13
Nicd-it's really really difficult to make a UI that works on desktop and mobile06:13
Yanielwell the tablet is going to be x8606:13
Nicd-jaacoppi: x86 has been supported from the start06:13
coderusjaacoppi: no such restrictions06:13
LexSfXoh, i had read that x86 is supported in my quick research, which is why i came here.  what i read may have been wrong06:13
Yanieland the emulator too06:13
LexSfXoh, okay06:13
Yanielthe phone itself is armv7hl though, yes06:13
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coderusLexSfX: you just will get exactly same as emulator, just with different resolution. you want it on your desktop instead of windows? :)06:14
jaacoppiaah okay06:14
Nicd-anyway, there's not much ROI in trying to make an OS that scales to both mobile and desktop. especially as making a good desktop UX is hard enough in itself06:14
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Yanielsee canonical06:15
coderusYaniel: you LOL?06:15
coderusubuntu for phones is absolutely different OS :D06:15
LexSfXas an OS, though (aside from UI), could sailfish handle my hardware?  this is assuming i don't care about the user experience and i just wanted a functional computer, hypothetically.  could it handle my mouse, keyboard, motherboard, chipset, video card, hard drives, etc. theoretically?06:15
YanielLexSfX: in theory yes06:16
LexSfXokay, thanks06:16
Yanielit's pretty much just another linux distro06:16
coderusLexSfX: linux kernel will handle your hardware, not sailfishos06:16
LexSfXi was thinking sailfishos used a linux kernel06:16
LexSfXis that false?06:17
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coderusomg..06:17
coderusobviously it's linux based :D06:18
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coderuswhat a bunch of something in your head? :D06:19
Nicd-yes, sailfish runs on the linux kernel06:19
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jaacoppiLexSfX: what OSes have you used before?06:21
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LexSfXjaacoppi: dos, windows 3.1 -> 8, ubuntu, arch linux, osx (various versions), ios, android06:23
Nicd-arch <306:25
jaacoppiI suggest you try a bsd and see how that works out for you. For truly alternative experiences, see the OSes on osdev.org06:25
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Nicd-menuetos!06:26
jaacoppifor example, yeah06:26
Juubachem|st: ideas? why my sdcard (btrfs) is readonly mounted?06:26
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Juubaanyone else, what can I do to change it to rw?06:27
LexSfXjaacoppi: thanks!  maybe i will try bsd and check out osdev.org06:27
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coderusjaacoppi: did you already tred everything from google?06:30
coderusbecause imho we have no any complete answer, will do googling myself06:31
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jaacoppicoderus: didn't need google for that, I simply suggested some things based on my own experience. There's no "answer", just a friendly suggestion06:40
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coderus jaacoppi sorry, i wanted to mention Juuba, lol :D06:47
Juubacoderus: will try to googlegoogle, but my linux knowledge is limited06:49
Juubajust noticed this morning on the train when I was trying to save the PDF train ticket from android Firefox06:49
Juuba:D06:49
Juubapanic ensued06:49
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Juuba(i didn't remember my password to the VR ticket store, so I had to use synced firefox that did remember it)06:50
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Juubabut then the password came to me, and I could login with sailfish browser... funny enough, the VR Mobile app didn't accept the password.06:51
JuubaTieto/Accenture quality.06:51
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Juubai have the  /etc/systemd/system/androidsdcard.service06:53
Juubain it: ExecStart=/bin/mount -o subvol=android,compress=lzo,dirsync,noatime,users /dev/mmcblk1 /data/media06:53
Juubai didn't change this when 1.1.2.15-16 came06:54
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JuubaWtf06:59
Juubasomething changed06:59
Juubabecause at 1.1.2.15 it was "rw"06:59
Juubanow it is "ro"06:59
Juubathis is from a week ago or so:  https://gist.github.com/juuba/69b1b9eea0475f88183206:59
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Juubanow the same command outputs... everything "mmcblk1" is "ro"06:59
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Juubathis is current:   https://gist.github.com/juuba/4924e4d0882c3c078de207:04
Juubacommented/asked in the TJC: https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/?comment=84870#comment-8487007:09
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JuubaExecStart=/bin/mount -o subvol=android,compress=lzo,dirsync,noatime,users /dev/mmcblk1 /data/media07:16
Juubahups07:17
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Juubaif i manually umount and then mount the card, it is rw07:22
Juuba-> mount -o subvol=android,compress,dirsync,noatime,users /dev/mmcblk1 /data/media07:22
Juuba--> /dev/mmcblk1 on /data/media type btrfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,noatime,dirsync,thread_pool=4,compress=zlib,ssd,noacl,space_cache)07:22
Juubabut the automatic mount at boot does not work anymore...07:23
Juuba"data" is in the rbind section as it should07:23
Juubahalp07:24
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Juubaran btrfs check --repair  /dev/mmcblk1  -> https://gist.github.com/juuba/69529f59d671496ca33b07:28
Juubafixed something, lets see07:28
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muppisWhat's state of Sailfish OS for Nexus 7? Is Merproject wiki up-to-date?07:48
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Juubanope, still mounts SDcard at boot as read-only07:50
Juubahuoh07:50
Juubahalp! :D07:50
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chem|stJuuba: hmm have you tried it in a desktop OS?08:26
Juubanot yet08:26
Juubadont have the adapter at the moment08:26
chem|stwht does journal tell?08:27
Juubait mouts it first as RW (at least manually)08:28
Juubathen after a while it is RO again08:28
chem|stbtrfs has some sever bugs... to not have btrfs at the latest version is in my opinion plain stupid at this stage of development08:32
Nicd-well, it's not possible to have the latest btrfs in the phone at least08:32
chem|stJuuba: find a system with a more current btrfs (3.18)08:34
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chem|stNicd-: I know that it is hard to keep up but the bugs in 3.16 and 3.17 are known to mess up alot08:34
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chem|stNicd-: I don't know if the actual driver is the issue or just the tools being unable to fix problems like that08:36
Nicd-well, the kernel in the phone is 3.4 iirc and is not going to be updated08:36
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Nicd-backporting the latest btrfs is pretty much impossible to my understanding08:36
chem|stlets hope we can have some more current things with the tablet then, intel seems to like to show of with jolla :)08:38
chem|stJuuba: it might also be that your card is really corrupted though08:38
Juubacould be08:39
Juubastarting to think that it is.08:39
chem|stwhen you get a system with adapter I'd check the guts of that card, best is format it to something that is known to work properly and then test it, any write or read errors... bin it08:41
Juubaproblem: how to access btrfs on a windows 7 pc ? :D08:42
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chem|stformat it exfat08:42
chem|stas you are ro, you can read your data while still in the device, winscp to copy over wlan08:43
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Juubaso, formattin exfat wont overwrite the data ?08:46
Juubaerr08:46
Juubaor08:46
Juubai'll just backup the card over ftp from jolla08:47
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Nicd-Juuba: it will08:54
Nicd-or... if you do a quick format it won't but it won't be that easy to find the data anymore :P08:54
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ShawnMcCoolthe background of the emulator is so ugly10:27
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dr_gogeta86install gallery and ambiances via ssh10:29
ShawnMcCoolyea, cool10:29
dr_gogeta86pkcon install zypper10:30
dr_gogeta86as root10:30
dr_gogeta86thus10:30
dr_gogeta86zypper ref10:30
dr_gogeta86and zypper search gallery10:30
ShawnMcCoolthanks10:30
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JuubaNicd-: yea, I realized what he meant just as I hit enter.10:56
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zGrrmoin :)11:41
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SkorpyGot a new patch done. Is there a good guide how to make a RPM package out of it? Last time I made one I screwed up a lot with the package.13:11
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m4g0gfor (int i = 0; i < 100000; ++i) std::cout << "I want SailfishOS 2.0" << std::endl;13:31
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Tegufor (;;) std::cout << "Me too" << std::endl;13:34
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muppisWhere I can talk about Sailfish OS for Nexus 7, here?14:06
ikarusfor the process of porting and getting it optimal, no14:06
ikarusthis is more for development on the agnostic part of sailfish and applications on it14:06
Nicd-muppis: #sailfishos-porters14:07
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muppisThank you.14:17
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Sailor11736. .zmzmspz.,.14:30
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coderusSkorpy: i'm using mb2 inside mersdk14:45
coderusSkorpy: do you have sdk installed?14:45
Skorpycoderus: not at the moment14:45
Skorpygotta try that later14:45
coderusbtw, everybody at MWC and nobody can change topic of #sailfishos with 1502 SDK? :D14:46
Skorpygot it built though, with the same guide (schturman's) which I used last time and failed horribly. Did some things differently this time though.14:46
Nicd-new SDK released?14:46
coderusNicd-: yes14:46
Skorpyadding the patch to openrepos a this moment14:47
coderusSkorpy: did you tested it? :D14:47
Skorpyyes of course :D14:47
Skorpyinstalls and uninstalls just fine14:47
Skorpythis time. :D14:47
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Skorpyhttps://openrepos.net/content/sevanteri/patch-disable-left-swipe-android-apps14:52
Skorpyoh boy14:52
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anandrkrishSkorpy: https://together.jolla.com/question/1989/suggestion-switch-to-disable-swiping-in-android-apps/14:55
Skorpyanandrkrish: toggling swipes on/off with gestures would require quite a lot, if even possible to implement in a patch14:58
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anandrkrishSkorpy: am not asking you to implement it :) just sharing to say there is demand...14:59
Skorpyanandrkrish: ah :D14:59
anandrkrishcoderus - hi14:59
Skorpyanandrkrish: there seems to be quite a lot of demand for changes to the gestures15:00
anandrkrishyeah true15:01
Skorpyfor myself, I'd like to see more advanced gestures available and customizable15:01
Skorpywould be neat to define your own actions for gestures15:01
anandrkrishit may be required to disable it on right side at times15:02
anandrkrishhttps://twitter.com/anandrkris/status/54921229415705805015:02
coderusSkorpy: property bool topmostIsAndroidApp: topmostApplicationWindow.window.surface.className.substr(-8) != "desktop"15:03
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coderusanandrkrish: hello15:03
anandrkrishhttps://together.jolla.com/question/12694/display-current-date-on-home-screen-status-area-peeking/15:03
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Skorpycoderus: well damn it. of course there's a simpler way to do it... :D15:03
coderusSkorpy: :D15:03
anandrkrishcoderus: seems to have some patches but not sure if it is available in openrepos15:04
coderusanandrkrish: yeah, sadly they are not publishing it to openrepos15:06
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anandrkrishhmm...also not sure if they would work on latest OS version...15:07
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coderusyou mean SailfishOS 2.0? :D15:08
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Skorpycoderus: in my spec file, I have "Requires: sailfish-version >= 1.1.1". is this correct? I tried to put 1.1.2.16 but didn't work with that.15:11
SkorpyI took your mazelock's spec file as an example15:11
anandrkrishlol15:13
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Skorpy(I suck with the spec files)15:14
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coderusSkorpy: you can put 1.1.215:23
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coderusrpm -qa sailfish-version15:23
Skorpycoderus: ah, ok thanks15:24
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fgkigany good irc clients15:25
fgkigany115:26
Skorpyfgkig: for jolla? -> the one in jolla store15:26
fgkigwhats it called15:27
Skorpy"IRC for SailfishOS"15:27
fgkigha ha15:27
Skorpythe one and only IRC client there is in the store. :D15:27
Mikaelaand that is why it's so easy to choose which client to use :)15:28
Skorpyyup :P15:29
ShawnMcCoolis there a specific preferred way to change the usb connection mode without replugging it in?15:29
Mikaelajpnurmi being also ZNC contributor makes ZNC support good15:29
j-dogeor use irssi and suffer fingerterm :P15:29
MikaelaI prefer WeeChat to irssi, but I don't want to suffer fingerterm, always when I use terminal, I ssh nemo@172.16.1.915:30
ShawnMcCoolwhere are android apps installed on the filesystem?15:36
Mikaelasomewhere under /opt/alien which appears to be the android root15:38
ShawnMcCoolthanks15:38
TeguI just suffer fingerterm and ssh15:40
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fgkigwhats fingerterm15:50
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ShawnMcCooli added an entry to ~/.ssh/config so i can 'ssh phone'15:55
ShawnMcCoolthen i copied my public key to the phone and added it to /home/nemo/.ssh/authorized_keys15:55
coderusShawnMcCool: ssh-copy-id command doesn't works for you?15:55
ShawnMcCooland whenever i plug in my usb i choose developer mode, then 'ssh phone' get me straight there15:55
ShawnMcCoolcoderus: i didn't actually know that one, thanks15:56
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MikaelaTegu: fingerterm is the default "terminal" app which you get when you enable developer mode16:12
Teguforwarding that to fgkig ^16:13
Mikaelayes16:13
Mikaelasorry16:13
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TofeI wonder, after all these blog posts about ergonomics, what is the rationale behind the new swipes of sailfish 2.016:47
Tofeespecially for good ol' events swipe16:47
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ShawnMcCoolcoderus: thanks so much for powermenu 2, really needed that17:00
ShawnMcCoolwould be nice if it was natively styled, but whatever. i'll take it17:00
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coderusShawnMcCool: it's natively styled, no?17:25
ShawnMcCoolso, i have ready about a swype-like keyboard for Jolla called Magical Keyboard, does anyone know how to find / run this on a jolla device17:25
ShawnMcCoolcoderus: hmm, it seems weird and bright green to me17:25
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ShawnMcCooli mean, it's _super_ useful.17:25
coderuseverything was copied from wifi dialog17:26
ShawnMcCoolhmm17:26
coderuscheck connect to wifi dialog on your current ambience17:26
coderusshow me screenshots if colors are not the same, i'll check then17:26
ShawnMcCoolcool screenshot app too, btw17:26
ShawnMcCoolOk, so you're right. despite so much of my ui being blue, it's blinding green. i'll play with ambiance stuff17:27
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ShawnMcCoolcoderus: is tere a way to change the usb mode (charging | pc share | developer mode) without unplugging and replugging?17:40
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ShawnMcCoolapparently there's not really, and just more apps to do it, k17:47
ShawnMcCoolah man it's good to finally have a linux phone17:47
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coderusShawnMcCool: i saw some app should appear in harbour soon for changing usb mode17:51
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ShawnMcCoolcoderus: sorry to bother, could you tell me sort of what your android notification app does?19:16
ShawnMcCooli'm trying to better understand the way these tools work together19:16
ShawnMcCoolit seems like it's listening for the notifications, filtering them, and then raising new notifications in the sailfish os19:17
ShawnMcCoolbut even the new notifications seem to be actually the same sandboxed android app19:17
ShawnMcCoolfor example, if i use telegram or whatsapp, i actually get a notification that i can directly reply to without switching to the full app19:17
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coderusShawnMcCool: https://github.com/CODeRUS/android-notifications19:29
coderus>> if i use telegram or whatsapp, i actually get a notification that i can directly reply to without switching to the full app19:29
coderusyou mean on android?19:29
Acceshould the translations from https://github.com/nemomobile/transfer-engine/tree/master/example work?19:29
Acceas per my testing, they don't.. and I'm wondering how to do it19:30
coderusAcce: no, i think this engine was updated in u10 and examples was not19:30
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Accecoderus: :(19:31
Accefor whatever reason, it always loads the finnish translation19:31
coderusAcce: you changed https://github.com/nemomobile/transfer-engine/blob/master/example/example.pro right?19:31
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Acceyes, I added en_GB translation with the same name scheme19:37
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Accemaybe I named the files wrong with respect to the id of my plugin or something19:37
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Accewell, there must be something right because it is able to find the finnish translation at least19:42
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r0kk3rzAcce: remember that debugging from qtc sets language to C19:47
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Accer0kk3rz: yep19:50
Acceif I move the *fi.qm file, then the default strings from the translation comments are used, hmm19:51
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coderusAcce: what is your phone language?20:02
coderuscheck locale in terminal fr proper naming20:02
ShawnMcCoolis there a significant charge time difference in usb developer mode?20:03
ShawnMcCoolcoderus: thanks for the link20:03
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Accecoderus: I switched to en_GB for testing, was fi before20:10
Accelocale gives en_GB.utf8 for all in fingerterm20:11
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Accewhy can't I find the code in transfer-engine which loads plugin translations..20:14
coderusShawnMcCool: no difference in charging20:14
ShawnMcCoolok great!20:14
ShawnMcCoolthat solves that20:14
coderusAcce: because engine loads translation, not plugin20:15
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Nokiusis there a a documnataion how to have a pullmenu on bootom? cc cvp_21:07
Nokiusdid find a hint in the tumbler21:07
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Nokiusbtw if you need maps for monav take a look here https://nokius.net/stuff/monav-maps/ map source from 03.03.1521:11
ejjomanNokius: see PushUpMenu in Silica reference21:12
Nokiuscvp_: ^21:13
Nokiusejjoman: THX21:16
Nokiusno Europe map preprocssor cashed during build21:16
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cvp_ejjoman, thanks... but i want to know how i get a "slider" from top to bottom21:20
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ejjomancvp_: slider?21:25
cvp_brightness slider or so21:26
ejjomanNokius: asked about pullmenu :D21:26
Nokiusejjoman: to late my brain stucks :D21:27
cvp_yeah i know :D but this is the wrong question :D21:27
ejjomanokay :D21:27
ejjomancvp_: tried rotation already?21:28
ejjomanhttp://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qml-item.html#rotation-prop21:29
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Nokiusejjoman: got the "problem" cvp_ like to have it on downer position on the page atm it on the top21:40
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ejjomanwithout code it's hard to say :) but try anchors (.bottom) or even with y position21:44
ejjomanor (when nothing else works) with an dummy item which pushes it down21:47
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Nokiusejjoman: https://www.zerobin.net/?8949630b8e352721#IGOkDA4BWXObKnleFj0DrsUey34W3xW7Jt6h00DSNbY= hope cvp_ don't mind :) but yeap y x will do it http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150304/36wigewh.png21:50
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Nokiustry my best atm21:51
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ejjomanNokius, cvp_: The better way would be to set anchor.bottom: parent.bottom on column21:53
ejjomanmaybe with a margin (anchors.bottomMargin)21:54
ejjomananchors*21:54
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ejjomanand the contentHeight of the flickable must be set to parent.height, i think21:54
ejjomanbtw, i love how ugly the emulator is :D21:55
Nokius:D21:56
Nokiushe has some ideas to fill the empty space :)21:56
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ejjomanwhere is the problem then? :D21:58
ejjomanthen it will be automatically on bottom?21:59
ejjomancoderus: any plans to update your qmltypes repo to new SDK release?22:00
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coderusejjoman: sure, when will have time forr that22:03
coderusbut nothing significantly changed22:03
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ejjomanokay, thank you :) will use it as-is then for now :)22:04
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ejjomanNokius: or you want to let it stay at bottom? like the bottom menu in jolla's settings app?22:12
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NokiusI know what he want as result so I made him this https://www.zerobin.net/?13f20ba073ae11db#6wotBePFltTsYGW+LlUTqY29srFBTihiSaC5WiN2k6Y= he like to have http://chaosspace.de/hyperion-remote22:15
Nokius:P22:15
samzanemesisWould sailfish support generic wayland DE like Weston or maybe even Gnome to a strech?22:15
samzanemesisOr does it need to be patched to have libhybris support22:16
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ejjomanNokius: ich lese deutsch :D22:18
NokiusBut this Channel is ENG :P22:18
NokiusI know that we can speak German22:19
Nokiusah type22:19
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ejjomanhttp://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/082/456/Okay.png22:19
Nokiusejjoman: sei nicht traurig but I don't like to get band22:20
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ejjomanNokius: no problem :P do you have access to a real jolla? :D ssh into it and take a look at /usr/share/jolla-settings/pages/FrontPage.qml22:21
Nokiusejjoman: YEAH since 17.12.1322:22
ejjomanor take a look here: http://pastebin.com/w0SyB6hF22:22
Nokiuswhat is 2013 oh22:22
ejjomanc&p'ed it22:22
ejjomanyou see the item element (spacer)?22:23
ejjomanthat is the way i would go22:23
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ejjomanset the height of the spacer to the remaining space... so it pushes the bottom items down :)22:24
Nokiusah Thanks !!!22:24
Nokiusthis is what I ask my self for some weeks now22:24
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ejjomanit is a very nice solution :) it keeps the items at the bottom when there is space left, but still allows you to scroll when the content is out of bounds :)22:30
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Nokiusejjoman: so the project is now on github cvp_ is now familiar with git o/23:20
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cvp_:) jippi ... good night23:29
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ejjomanvery good :)23:31
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