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| tortoisedoc_ | duhduh | 11:25 |
|---|---|---|
| tortoisedoc_ | has anyone succeeded in profiling qml on-device yet? | 11:25 |
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| Victor | hi | 13:20 |
| Victor | does anyone know for how long the current jolla smartphone will continue receiving updates? | 13:21 |
| Nicd- | for the foreseeable future | 13:21 |
| Victor | that's very non-specific | 13:22 |
| Nicd- | currently there is no EOL information | 13:22 |
| Nicd- | they have stated that SFOS 2.0 will have the same codebase for the tablet and the phone | 13:22 |
| Victor | I was thinking on buying a jolla smartphone now, but keeping in mind that a new HW partner will be releasing new phones at the end of the year, I'm not sure if that's such a great idea | 13:23 |
| Victor | does the current smartphone feel underpowered/laggy or is OK with latest updates? (I saw concerns with regards battery in the latest update, but not much about performance) | 13:24 |
| Nicd- | that is a valid concern | 13:24 |
| Nicd- | there are always people claiming battery drain with every update, personally I haven't seen such an effect | 13:24 |
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| Nicd- | the phone runs the OS quite fine and smoothly, it only feels underspecced with the memory which is an issue after 20-30 days of uptime (depending on what you run on it) | 13:25 |
| Victor | well, memory leaks are annoying, but I guess that if it is only a problem after 20/30 days I can reboot to make it a non-issue | 13:26 |
| Nicd- | as I said it depends on what you run | 13:27 |
| Nicd- | the browser is a huge memory hog | 13:27 |
| Hartzi | Victor: without andoird apps the phone runs very smooth very long time | 13:27 |
| Hartzi | android* | 13:28 |
| tathhu | ^ yep | 13:28 |
| Victor | Hartzi: I'm not sure what apps are available on jolla as native. I mostly care about mail + browser + some kind of maps + some XMPP client | 13:28 |
| Hartzi | sometimes you have to restart home screen and that releases a lot of memory. | 13:28 |
| tathhu | Screen could always be better when using outside but | 13:28 |
| Victor | and from what I've read, there should be native support for that use case | 13:28 |
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| Victor | Hartzi: restarting the home screen does have any ill effect? (ie: is something like restarting the X server in linux?) | 13:30 |
| zett_zelett | Victor: Have you a source on new hardware partners releasing new phones this year? | 13:30 |
| zett_zelett | (I’m interested in buying a Jolla / SailfishOS device myself.) | 13:30 |
| Hartzi | Victor: I don't have noticed any side effects. Ofc it kills all the running apps that have GUI open. | 13:31 |
| Victor | zett_zelett: I've seen a few news stating that the indian partner will release something at the end of the year, which is not very specific | 13:31 |
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| zett_zelett | Ah, intex or whatever? Won’t they release just in India or something? | 13:32 |
| Victor | zett_zelett: just do a quick search of intex + jolla | 13:32 |
| Victor | and you'll see a few things | 13:32 |
| Victor | yep, the target market is india, but I guess you can just ask over the internet if the device is worth it | 13:32 |
| Victor | Hartzi: I see, so is probably something like an X server restart, thanks! | 13:32 |
| zett_zelett | Are you from India? | 13:32 |
| Hartzi | Victor: propably yes | 13:33 |
| Victor | zett_zelett: nope, I live in europe | 13:33 |
| Victor | so as owners of the existing jolla phone: Would you buy one again today? (current price, specs and moment in time) | 13:34 |
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| Coolgeek | I bought mine 1 month ago | 13:41 |
| Nicd- | Victor: I would because I have the TOHKBD | 13:42 |
| Nicd- | otherwise I don't know | 13:42 |
| zett_zelett | How often do you use TOHKBD? | 13:43 |
| Victor | I see | 13:43 |
| Coolgeek | bought mine because didn't want to buy and android / ios / winphone | 13:43 |
| Victor | Nicd-: what are the best/worst things you find about jolla? | 13:43 |
| tathhu | I bought another one because I missed Sailfish UI so bad :P | 13:43 |
| tathhu | Ok it was secondhand but anyway | 13:44 |
| Victor | btw zett_zelett, this is a 1st party source stating new devices at the end of the year: https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/55_SAILFISH_INDIA_PRESS_RELEASE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF | 13:44 |
| zoldyck | best: overall physolophy | 13:44 |
| Victor | zett_zelett: not very specific, but hey... | 13:44 |
| zoldyck | worst: development speed (including apps) | 13:44 |
| tathhu | worst: screen when going outside :P | 13:44 |
| Nicd- | Victor: best: the OS, the philosophy, the freedom. worst: the OS, amount of apps, hardware | 13:45 |
| Victor | tathhu: what's wrong with the screen? I've read in the forums that people complain about it reflecting too much (ie: you have a nice mirror) | 13:45 |
| zoldyck | I don't see anything on a sunny day | 13:45 |
| tathhu | ^ that | 13:45 |
| zett_zelett | Nicd-: “best: the OS, … worst: the OS …” Explain. | 13:45 |
| Nicd- | yes, hard to see in daylight | 13:45 |
| zoldyck | have to look for a shadow | 13:45 |
| Victor | I see, that's actually a good concern | 13:46 |
| zett_zelett | Would be nice if puzzlephone would support Sailfish OS. | 13:47 |
| Victor | I'm not sure if any of you are developing applications, but do you know what's the current security model for jolla? I've seen comments with regards taking care of your privacy better than android/iOS, but looking into the developers section I was unable to find any specific information about how this security is achieved | 13:47 |
| Nicd- | zett_zelett: the OS is awesome, the gestures are so useful and make it a joy to use. I hate using android or iOS now that I've gotten used to the gesture system. the covers are nice, I like seeing what apps are running and of course the freedom of limitless multitasking is very useful. I like that it gives me the freedom to make my own choices. but it has bugs, mostly related to sync (calendar, contacts), | 13:47 |
| Nicd- | not that many features when compared to other OSes and really few native apps | 13:47 |
| Nicd- | Victor: there is no security model | 13:47 |
| Nicd- | you can prevent android apps from accessing contacts and some stuff and that's about it | 13:48 |
| Victor | Nicd-: ok, that's inline with what I saw | 13:48 |
| Nicd- | native apps can do what they like as your user | 13:48 |
| Victor | that's even worse than iOS or android :( | 13:48 |
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| Victor | Coolgeek: how long did it take for you to get the phone delivered? | 13:49 |
| zett_zelett | How much control do you have over the OS? I understand it doesn’t come with preinstalled un-uninstallable crap-apps from Facebook or Google, but do you have root rights and can do whatever you want or how does that work? | 13:50 |
| Coolgeek | Victor: around 10 days | 13:50 |
| Nicd- | zett_zelett: you can get root by enabling developer mode in settings | 13:51 |
| zett_zelett | Neat. | 13:51 |
| Nicd- | from then on it's a regular linux system | 13:51 |
| zett_zelett | NEAT. | 13:51 |
| Victor | good | 13:51 |
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| Nicd- | it's linux + btrfs + systemd + wayland + qt to list the major things | 13:51 |
| zett_zelett | Seems pretty reasonable. | 13:52 |
| Victor | I like the part about the fact that apps are C++ with QT | 13:52 |
| Victor | with lower spec HW you can do much more | 13:52 |
| Victor | but I'm not sure how that's going to play in the long run with more devices and HW compatibility | 13:53 |
| Victor | seems that there is in the way a few intel and snapdragon processors | 13:53 |
| Nicd- | how would it affect hw compatibility? | 13:53 |
| Coolgeek | have to recompile for each arch | 13:53 |
| Victor | C++ is a compiled language, you must recompile or have a compatible ABI | 13:54 |
| Victor | having a compatible ABI means you must either use always the same architecture and be extremely careful with the design of your libraries, or you'll be recompiling stuff from time to time | 13:54 |
| Victor | apple fixed the distribution problem on OSX by using "fat binaries", but I didn't see anything like that mentioned in the developer documentation for sailfish | 13:55 |
| Nicd- | well currently there is only one arch | 13:55 |
| Victor | probably also not worth worrying at the moment with the amount devices available | 13:55 |
| Victor | exactly | 13:55 |
| Nicd- | the tablet is x86 though so they'll do something before it arrives | 13:56 |
| Victor | I read in the developers mailing list that support for tablet apps will be rolled out in harbour soon | 13:57 |
| Victor | so maybe you just need to upload two binaries | 13:57 |
| Victor | (never actually used it) | 13:57 |
| Coolgeek | what is harbour exactly ? | 13:57 |
| Victor | from what I've read seems to be the equivalent of an app store | 13:58 |
| Victor | https://sailfishos.org/develop/harbour/ | 13:58 |
| Victor | https://harbour.jolla.com/ | 13:58 |
| Victor | (maybe more useful) | 13:59 |
| Coolgeek | hmm ok | 14:00 |
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| Coolgeek | thanks ! | 14:00 |
| Victor | you're welcome | 14:00 |
| zett_zelett | It sucks a bit that jolla gets to have your name, birthday and address in order to use the harbour. | 14:00 |
| zett_zelett | But you can probably type it any stuff, right? | 14:01 |
| Victor | I've never used it (I don't own any jolla device atm), so can't really say, but seems less than what apple and google request | 14:02 |
| Victor | not that it can't be improved, but.. | 14:02 |
| tathhu | Account.jolla.com only wants my name, email, birthday & langugae :( | 14:02 |
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| zett_zelett | Do you feel like the Sailfish community is growing? | 14:18 |
| Nicd- | if it is, then very slowly | 14:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Nicd-: it is | 14:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | quite a bit I have to say | 14:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | there are lots of new people around | 14:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and you have #sailfishos-porters too | 14:22 |
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| Victor | does anyone know what is the default browser in jolla? (I'd expect firefox, but being qt based, something webkit-based would make more sense) | 14:33 |
| tathhu | Victor: gecko w/ qt-stuff (or something .D) | 14:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Victor: it is a firefox (gecko) based browser | 14:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but using qtmozembed to render the view | 14:34 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | so there is qt on top | 14:34 |
| Victor | thx! | 14:35 |
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| zett_zelett | How can I browse Jolla apps without registering at Jolla Harbour? | 15:01 |
| tathhu | You can't, you need a sailfish device :( | 15:02 |
| tathhu | (And harbour is for devs to "ship" apps afau) | 15:02 |
| zett_zelett | Ah, okay. Wtf? | 15:03 |
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| coderus | why? | 15:04 |
| zett_zelett | That’s so unbelievable fucking stupid. How can I find out if I want to a purchase a Jolla or any other Sailfish device if I can’t take a closer look at the list of available native apps? | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | zett_zelett: we spent time focusing on experience for our users | 15:04 |
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| coderus | zett_zelett: stfu | 15:05 |
| zett_zelett | Oh, c’mon – can’t you see where I’m coming from heres | 15:06 |
| tbr | interesting enough its IMHO impossible for a third party individual (community) to write a shop browser as that would violate terms of service. IANAL YMMV | 15:06 |
| coderus | zett_zelett: ask more politely | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | zett_zelett: i can | 15:06 |
| Victor | zett_zelett: while not the answer you're looking for, seems that you can browse the aptoide jolla store to get an idea | 15:06 |
| coderus | Victor: aptoide? you serious? | 15:07 |
| coderus | :D :D :D | 15:07 |
| coderus | the best jolla user ever! | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | remember, jolla is a 100-120 man operation | 15:07 |
| Victor | coderus: I don't have a clue of what I'm talking about, as I said before: I don't have a jolla phone yet, but people seem to talk about that option for using android apps | 15:07 |
| Victor | coderus: just trying to be helpful :) | 15:07 |
| coderus | for android apps you can browse play store, amazon store, whatever store because its ANDROID | 15:08 |
| tathhu | Maybe someday we'll got something like google got, browse apps on your pc and just click install | 15:08 |
| tathhu | But there might be something more important :P | 15:08 |
| coderus | zett_zelett: most of sailfish apps are also hosted at openrepos.net in sailfishos section, but not all, but you can take a look at least | 15:08 |
| coderus | tathhu: while there are no push services in sailfishos its not easily doable | 15:09 |
| * tbr has well working proof of concept for push services on sailfish | 15:10 | |
| zett_zelett | Ok, thanks. | 15:10 |
| tbr | too bad no critical mass of interested people, same as for the community open source repositories | 15:11 |
| Victor | tbr: what's wrong with the community OS repos? | 15:11 |
| Yaniel | security nightmare | 15:11 |
| Yaniel | also support nightmare | 15:12 |
| tbr | Victor: the chum project never got enough interested people | 15:12 |
| locusf | opebrepos is the security nightmare | 15:12 |
| tbr | yes, openrepos is like the Mos Eisley of sailfish | 15:12 |
| locusf | chum actually has qa process | 15:12 |
| Victor | what's chum? | 15:12 |
| locusf | thanks to tbr | 15:13 |
| tbr | meh, not much thanks to me, a few people were involved | 15:13 |
| coderus | tbr: there is always lack of interest in any not implemented feature unless you show it to public :) | 15:13 |
| coderus | make a working stuff for next release or do some standalone tool for that and then we can telll the world how cool is that | 15:14 |
| tbr | making "stuff" needs a minimal group of people. If such group does not gather, then it doesn't happen. | 15:15 |
| coderus | tbr: for getting minimal group of people you first should already have that "stuff" | 15:16 |
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| coderus | it's very difficult to get support for thing is not happen yet | 15:16 |
| tbr | there was a working chum repository with manual QA for a while. interest was minimal despite showing this "stuff" to developers. | 15:18 |
| Victor | what is/was chum? | 15:18 |
| tbr | my personal conclusion at some point was that the developer community around sailfishos has no sufficient interest in something like Maemo-extras, especially as many chose to go the path of least resistance and just dump random binaries on OR. | 15:19 |
| coderus | tbr: i'm talking about push services now :D | 15:19 |
| Yaniel | people will always take the path of least resistance | 15:19 |
| Yaniel | and OBS is a PITA to set up | 15:19 |
| tbr | you don't need to set up OBS, you just need to use it | 15:20 |
| tbr | using it is not a PITA if your app is set up cleanly | 15:20 |
| tbr | coderus: well, there were/are about 10 users of my push test server | 15:20 |
| Yaniel | generally apps are not set up for OBS | 15:20 |
| Yaniel | why haven't I heard about this push test | 15:21 |
| Yaniel | just last week I was thinking it'd be a nice thing to have | 15:21 |
| Yaniel | (for notifications but anyway) | 15:21 |
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| locusf | I got my irssi notifications via tbr's mqtt push system | 15:24 |
| coderus | tbr: push test servver is cool! but i'm talking about real product for sailfishos users | 15:25 |
| tbr | target audience of a push service are developers | 15:26 |
| tbr | users, just consume the applications that use such a service | 15:26 |
| tbr | Yaniel: if you are interested in the topic, my patched mqtt library with support for jolla power management is on github | 15:27 |
| Yaniel | will take a look | 15:27 |
| tbr | patch is quite trivial | 15:28 |
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| zett_zelett | Neat, native tox client. | 15:37 |
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| Victor | seems I will be unable to have a jolla device: the checkout web page doesn't list my country between the list of supported ones, even if all documentation states clearly they would send it here | 15:48 |
| Victor | :( | 15:49 |
| Nicd- | might be that they are running out and are ramping down logistics | 15:50 |
| Nicd- | they said the first phone is going to run out soon | 15:50 |
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| gexc | any news abt the next one? | 15:52 |
| Victor | maybe, but it doesn't make sense to explicitly list it into "orders & delivery" and then don't allow to send here | 15:52 |
| coderus | also i'm sure you should discuss it in #jollamiille channel, not here | 15:53 |
| Victor | what's jollamiille? | 15:53 |
| coderus | #jollamoile | 15:53 |
| Victor | ah | 15:53 |
| coderus | #jollamobile | 15:53 |
| coderus | :D | 15:53 |
| Victor | sure, I can try | 15:54 |
| coderus | what is default mersdk username and password? i want to use F2 command prompt to setup things | 15:54 |
| coderus | ah, found docs about it | 15:55 |
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| Victor | ok, in the end I managed to order one. Is totally counter intuitive and doesn't make any sense, but it worked | 16:32 |
| Victor | thanks all for answering my questions! | 16:32 |
| Victor | :) | 16:32 |
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| tathhu | \o/ | 16:36 |
| tathhu | Victor: stella-version? :P | 16:36 |
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| Victor | tathhu: nope, normal one | 16:48 |
| tathhu | :( | 16:48 |
| Victor | i'm sure my gf would love the stella version, but i'm quite boring :) | 16:50 |
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| tathhu | I'd love it :P | 17:51 |
| Victor | tathhu: do you have a normal jolla or a stella version? or none? | 17:52 |
| tathhu | Victor: just normal :( | 17:53 |
| Victor | i see :( | 17:54 |
| Victor | are you satisfied with it? | 17:55 |
| tathhu | dunno, i'm not using it :P | 17:55 |
| Victor | why? | 17:55 |
| tathhu | I once had all tohs :( | 17:55 |
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| tathhu | Victor: i got the keira toh (and tohkbd, lol) | 17:55 |
| Victor | but why don't you use it anymore? | 17:56 |
| tathhu | Ah lol :D | 17:57 |
| tathhu | I'm using it, not that normal toh :> | 17:57 |
| Victor | ah, I see :) | 17:57 |
| zett_zelett | What is stella? | 17:57 |
| Victor | the angry birds version | 17:57 |
| Victor | special edition or whatever | 17:58 |
| zett_zelett | I mean, I’m here https://jolla.com/stella/ - don’t understand what’s going on. | 17:58 |
| tathhu | zett_zelett: it's just jolla phone with that awesome pink toh :P | 17:58 |
| zett_zelett | Oh, ok. | 17:58 |
| Victor | I was tempted on buying the black toh, but in the end I just skipped | 17:59 |
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| zett_zelett | Aloe sounds awesome to me. | 18:04 |
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| zett_zelett | How would porting Sailfish OS to any of the devices in this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Devices_running_Sailfish_OS look like? Can I do that at home with safety goggles and a screwdriver or do I need to purchase the grandmaster’s porter toolkit? | 19:00 |
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| zett_zelett | Nevermind, it’s actually explained in the given sources. | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | zett_zelett: if they're reasonably ported it's like installing android ROM | 19:02 |
| zett_zelett | (At least with some.) | 19:02 |
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| Victor | hi | 19:11 |
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| Dr_Cain | https://twitter.com/sledgeSim/status/629325072646467584 <- so does this mean android support can be installed on ported devices too? | 23:39 |
| sledges | how would this mean that? :) | 23:43 |
| sledges | Dr_Cain: android support is licenced software, available to only official jolla devices through store | 23:43 |
| Dr_Cain | yeah I kind of figured :) | 23:43 |
| Dr_Cain | but I had to ask | 23:43 |
| sledges | Dr_Cain: if you want _some_ classy android games from APKs, wait for next nexus5 release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEfCvV_mzKk | 23:44 |
| sledges | and also, ask on #sailfishos-porters if you have to ;) | 23:44 |
| Dr_Cain | ah cool :) | 23:44 |
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| Dr_Cain | that's pretty interesting actually, I didn't know this existed | 23:46 |
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