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| lpotter | I'm hoping with apple's new gesture based phone, it will increase interest in sailfish... | 05:59 |
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| pykape | lpotter: I hope Jolla was smart enough to patent all SFOS gestures so Rotten Apple has to pay | 06:15 |
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| lpotter | I'm sure nokia has patents on some | 06:33 |
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| r0kk3rz | considering the trivial stuff they got patents on... | 08:07 |
| nh1402 | I didn't watch their conference, can't stand them talking down to everyone. Did they claim they were the first to bring a gesture based OS? | 08:12 |
| r0kk3rz | probably | 08:13 |
| r0kk3rz | i always imagine an asterisk pointing to caveat "on an apple device" when they say things like that | 08:14 |
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| nh1402 | I hope Jolla and/or Nokia sue them over it. | 08:17 |
| r0kk3rz | jolla doesnt have the cash | 08:18 |
| nh1402 | they could team up with Nokia | 08:18 |
| r0kk3rz | AAPL could probably bleed both of them dry before a verdict | 08:19 |
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| nh1402 | if some small Brazilian firm can beat Apple over the iPhone name, I'm sure Nokia can beat them | 08:21 |
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| r0kk3rz | thats a trademark, not a patent though | 08:21 |
| r0kk3rz | different game | 08:21 |
| nh1402 | but still, Nokia have tons of patents | 08:22 |
| r0kk3rz | that doesnt really change things | 08:22 |
| FireFly | What would they be sued over? | 08:24 |
| nh1402 | software patents over a gesture controlled OS | 08:25 |
| FireFly | I guess it depends on what the patent says | 08:25 |
| FireFly | and how broad it is | 08:25 |
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| leszek | hmm... wasn't Palm with its WebOS the first swipe based operating system? | 08:37 |
| r0kk3rz | who could own those patents now? HP? LG? | 08:37 |
| nh1402 | depends if the patents were sold when LG got a hold of the OS | 08:38 |
| r0kk3rz | obviously. | 08:39 |
| leszek | do patents exists for this even? | 08:39 |
| nh1402 | but speaking of Palm, they'll be coming back next year TCL I think the ones who brought back Alcatel and are now making Blackberry phones. | 08:39 |
| nh1402 | there's a chance the Palm phones will be an unlockable bootloader version of the blackberry phones. | 08:40 |
| nh1402 | even if they're not, a big part of the Palm phones previously was that they had hardware keyboards, right?, so they might bring that aspect back, regardless. | 08:41 |
| r0kk3rz | i doubt it, they didnt for BB | 08:42 |
| nh1402 | that's with Blackberry's input though | 08:43 |
| leszek | BlackBerry is using their boot magic that they used for BB10 also for the Android stuff. That makes unlocked bootloaders impossible | 08:43 |
| leszek | as for Palm I doubt that we will see keyboard Palm devices from TCL | 08:44 |
| r0kk3rz | no my bad, the KEYone is made by TCL and has a keyboard | 08:45 |
| nh1402 | leszek: yes, but TCL could manufacturer the same phone without the boot magic | 08:45 |
| leszek | ah you meant that. Yeah keyTwo seems on the way and TCL will build it | 08:45 |
| leszek | nh1402: they aren't allowed to do this. Basically the TCL part that makes BlackBerry Keyboard phones is a new company called BlackBerry something something. This means the rest of TCL can't build the same hardware | 08:46 |
| leszek | BlackBerry Mobile I think is the official name for the company building the phones | 08:46 |
| nh1402 | aah | 08:46 |
| nh1402 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Mobile | 08:48 |
| nh1402 | it looks like that's a trade name. | 08:49 |
| leszek | ah ok | 08:49 |
| leszek | though it is still that BlackBerry Ltd owns the hardware design | 08:49 |
| nh1402 | well they may still not be allowed to sell Blackberry branded phones as Palm, they still know how to manufacturer phones with keyboards | 08:49 |
| leszek | and they have also patents for them like the keyboard | 08:50 |
| leszek | though then something like the Samsung BlackBerry Keyboard clone will come out which are not only ugly but not very usable | 08:50 |
| nh1402 | yh the touch sensitive keyboard thing they probably aren't allowed to do, but having just adding a normal physical keyboard is still possible, not completely out of the realm of possibility. | 08:51 |
| leszek | true but then it won't be a good keyboard. The Palm keyboard back then wasn't that good either | 08:52 |
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| leszek | and BlackBerry has a patent on the keyboard not only the touch sensitivity of the keyboard but also the keyboard with its strings seperating each row and buttons with the different angles on each of them | 08:52 |
| Aard | leszek: the palm keyboard was excellent (https://www.amazon.com/PalmOne-Portable-Keyboard-Palm-Handhelds/dp/B00004RC2I) | 08:53 |
| leszek | xD | 08:53 |
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| leszek | btw. when it comes to keyboards the SailfishOS virtual one needs improvements. I always mistype stuff on it as the single keys space is simply wrong or some keys are too big and others too small | 08:56 |
| nh1402 | for a phone that has a gesture based OS, not having a gesture based keyboard is baffling | 08:57 |
| leszek | would be great if one could copy the size of the blackberry virtual keyboard. It might be slightly bigger in height but is sooo much better when try to type something | 08:57 |
| nh1402 | they do have that on the play store iirc, as soon as get my %^*£ together with Anbox, you could pick whatever keyboard you want (for android apps) | 08:58 |
| nh1402 | as soon as I get* | 08:58 |
| Aard | nh1402: that already was a big argument when I was still working for jolla. the prediction engine jolla has licensed contains support for gesture based typing as well, just some people don't believe that it's useful, so it never got priority for implementation | 08:59 |
| nh1402 | a friend of mine who has a Jolla C, *hates* the fact there isn't an officially supported gesture based keyboard | 09:01 |
| nh1402 | even though the OS is gesture based. | 09:01 |
| Bysmyyr | there is patent issues | 09:02 |
| leszek | I wonder if i can hack the SailfishOS keyboard the way I want | 09:02 |
| Aard | Bysmyyr: no, there isn't. see above, license is included with the prediction engine | 09:03 |
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| nh1402 | Aard: wow, over 500 votes, and still not implemented https://together.jolla.com/question/333/swype-like-virtual-keyboard/ | 09:06 |
| r0kk3rz | Aard: really? thats a shame... | 09:06 |
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| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: well if something with over 500 votes on tjc doesn't get implemented there goes any hope of anything else that I want it to have. | 09:11 |
| r0kk3rz | not quite, its just not as democratic as people thing. tjc is for suggestions only and jolla reserves the right to do whatever it wants | 09:13 |
| r0kk3rz | s/thing/think | 09:13 |
| leszek | thats pretty normal to wait for stuff to be implemented isn't it ? I was promised I think it is now 2 or 3 years ago that a mimetype manager will "soon" be included into SailfishOS | 09:13 |
| nh1402 | well when I asked about a remorse timer before, it got like 30 votes or so then I asked again, and then they go straight to the vote number | 09:14 |
| nh1402 | asked for an update* | 09:15 |
| r0kk3rz | imo meetings should be for discussions and not feature demands | 09:19 |
| nh1402 | I think it should be about announcements, and discussions about feature requests | 09:22 |
| r0kk3rz | blog should be for announcements :P | 09:22 |
| nh1402 | blog is for tablet refund demands | 09:23 |
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| stephg_ | heh | 09:27 |
| leszek | xD | 09:31 |
| r0kk3rz | yes hopefully jolla finish that off soon | 09:32 |
| Aard | leszek: I remember that, that was shortly before almost everybody left :) | 09:36 |
| leszek | might be. It means they abandoned that aswell I guess | 09:37 |
| Aard | probably not abandoned, just pushed back indefinitely :) | 09:37 |
| leszek | its a pitty though because SailfishOS feels unfinished without a global graphical mimetype tool | 09:37 |
| r0kk3rz | leszek: it might be a moot point because most apps dont declare mimetypes | 09:41 |
| leszek | though it would be cool to just simply add a mimetype to open that particular file or adress with an android app which can handle this | 09:41 |
| r0kk3rz | or handle the cli invokation to open files... | 09:41 |
| leszek | as for native apps. Yeah they need to support this. Best would be by providing a modified SDK template | 09:42 |
| Aard | r0kk3rz: back then at least they couldn't really declare mime types, as they were not allowed to put stuff where it'd have been required to declare them. work related to that was one of the last things I've been doing 2 years ago, and I guess that and related things are truly abandoned now | 09:43 |
| r0kk3rz | Aard: but its part of the .desktop spec? and has worked for ages | 09:43 |
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| r0kk3rz | at least i implemented it for my app in 2015 | 09:44 |
| Aard | yeah, but apps are limited where they can write to. goal was to do relocatable apps, and put each app into a container. which requires apps only writing to a single prefix | 09:44 |
| r0kk3rz | most of the time you might only want read anyway, like set the default browser, set the default mail application, set the default music player | 09:47 |
| leszek | the biggest problem of those is really the dbus connection for those default applications which needs to be implemented by those applications. So if one application is opened already it will get the file that was clicked on | 09:48 |
| leszek | and for android I am not sure how that works at all but I guess they use something similiar and have something in their sdk for the apps to use. So SailfishOS needs that too | 09:48 |
| r0kk3rz | leszek: i did that for my music player app, it was easy as | 09:49 |
| leszek | yeah did that for lls Vplayer and Webcat aswell. Its just something that needs to be default in the SDK for new apps to automatically use it or at least have a template to edit | 09:50 |
| r0kk3rz | turn off single instance, on app startup check dbus you another instance of your app, if found > forward command and exit | 09:51 |
| r0kk3rz | sure libsailfishapp could bake that in by default | 09:51 |
| leszek | exactly | 09:52 |
| leszek | as for feature requests and implementation | 09:53 |
| leszek | I think I have another idea. Might be a bit risky but works fine for other projects like the HaikuOS | 09:53 |
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| leszek | Bountys for specific features | 09:53 |
| nh1402 | bounty as in financial incentive ? | 09:54 |
| leszek | So people can do votings on toghether.jolla.com what feature they want to be implemented. | 09:54 |
| leszek | exactly | 09:54 |
| nh1402 | I mean that's pretty much how Canonical work isn't it | 09:54 |
| nh1402 | Ubuntu itself is free, but if a business wants a certain feature, they pay Canonical to implement it. | 09:55 |
| leszek | then jolla will put the most requested most voted feature on kickstarter/indiegogo or something else with the appr. money the need for it to be implemented. And then people can finance this feature request | 09:55 |
| nh1402 | leszek: are you going to bring it up in the next meeting? | 09:57 |
| leszek | when is the next meeting? | 09:57 |
| nh1402 | next Wednesday | 09:57 |
| leszek | not sure I have time. But maybe | 09:57 |
| nh1402 | tbh I don't think there's enough people in the community to fund anything significant for Jolla to work on such features. | 09:58 |
| r0kk3rz | bring it up, see what they say. i would expect any work would get de-prioritised if an ODM came along and wanted development time | 10:00 |
| leszek | thats not the idea of the bountys. A feature is usually worked on by one or maybe two developers not more | 10:01 |
| leszek | so the rest can still work on the stuff they want | 10:01 |
| r0kk3rz | still. at some point push will come to shove and the ODMs demands will win :D | 10:02 |
| leszek | might be | 10:03 |
| nh1402 | I thought they stopped trying to license Sailfish to ODM's and have targeted regions instead | 10:04 |
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| r0kk3rz | they mostly have, but eg. jala is doing a sailfish os phone | 10:05 |
| nh1402 | I suppose it's now based on what the regions want | 10:06 |
| r0kk3rz | and im sure there would be a workload involving chinese odms for the china government strategy, OMP for russian government strategy .etc | 10:06 |
| nh1402 | I suppose VPN support and that manager thing like Android device manager was funded by some group | 10:06 |
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| leszek | nh1402: the mdm is necessary for handling many devices. So I guess if the russian post office wants to use SailfishOS devices this is a technology they need | 10:15 |
| nh1402 | leszek: I was just saying Jolla probably got paid by them to implement it. | 10:21 |
| leszek | either this or it was something developed by the OpenMobile Consortium in russia that got upstreamed | 10:22 |
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| nh1402 | I still want to experiment to see if I can set an Android keyboard as default in Sailfish | 10:34 |
| nh1402 | once the other stuff is done | 10:34 |
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| svip | Is it possible to compile Firefox Mobile for Sailfish OS? | 13:30 |
| Krikke | the android version works | 13:31 |
| nh1402 | I was looking into it, and was thinking how to convert the Firefox android version to Sailfish, but I don't know enough about Sailfish app development to do it, and haven't looked into the Firefox Android app source code into enough detail anyway | 13:34 |
| leszek | there is already the gecko engine. So why bother with porting firefox? | 13:37 |
| leszek | especially as the gecko engine will be updated hopefully soon with a new update and already provides multimedia and wayland support | 13:39 |
| nh1402 | gecko or servo? | 13:39 |
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| leszek | nh1402: gecko. I guess version 45 or 52 is the one coming next for sailfishos | 14:09 |
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| vispi | Sailfish affected? (blueborne) https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/240311 | 14:51 |
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| r0kk3rz | vispi: yes but a payload would probably need to be sailfish specific which lessens the risks somewhat | 14:53 |
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| blap | hello, has anyone gotten retroarch from warehouse to work? | 19:45 |
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| blap | it wants libPVROGL.so and libPVROCL.so | 20:21 |
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| blap | is there a 'locate' for sfos? | 23:35 |
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