Thursday, 2018-02-22

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zGrr'bry :)08:11
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nh1402PSA: meeting on splitscreen/PiP multitasking on #mer-meeting at 09:00 UTC (32 minutes time)08:28
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p4prik4any plans for a sailfish for PCs?18:25
r0kk3rzwhat for?18:25
p4prik4so jolla can turn a profit18:25
blopwhat would sailfish offer on a pc that a standard linux distro does not18:26
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p4prik4oops I was thinking more something they can offer across linux distros18:27
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r0kk3rzso.. you would pay for sfos on desktop?18:28
p4prik4I posted this on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7zdov8/to_capture_more_of_the_desktop_market_linux_needs/duns26h/18:29
^7heor0kk3rz: I wouldn't pay for sfos on smartphone if there was something else than android, ios, and it.18:31
^7heor0kk3rz: the only reason I got sfos is because it's not (android|iOS)18:31
^7heobut it still has huge problems, and doesn't really tick any other box on my list.18:31
tadzikbut there are other things on the desktop18:32
^7heobut, well, it's better than nothing; that's for sure.18:32
^7heotadzik: exactly. That's why I would never use sfos on a desktop.18:32
^7heobecause on my desktop, I have a lot more options that tick a lot more of the boxes on my list.18:32
tadzika waste of resources it not better than nothing18:32
tadzikI don't see what sfos on desktop would accomplish18:32
^7heowell, unification between devices.18:33
^7heosame OS everywhere accross the spectre of devices.18:33
^7heowhich I understand, would be cool.18:33
tadzikoh, sorry, I mistook you for p4prik418:33
^7heobut not worth it; by any mean.18:33
tadzikI'd rather use something else than walled gardens18:33
^7heoI'm fine with walled gardens as long as it's something I can audit.18:34
^7heoOpenBSD is something I can potentially audit.18:34
^7heoanything bigger...18:34
^7heoanyway18:34
p4prik4it would be a curated app store was what I was thinking of mostly18:34
^7heoand r0kk3rz, sorry, I also mistook you for p4prik418:35
^7heobut long story short, please don't try to use humans to curate stuff.18:36
^7heoplease try to make something scalable AND well design for a change.18:36
^7heoI know, it's hard to do both18:36
^7heoso anyone would likely fail at that18:36
^7heobut by trying more we could have more shots at it.18:37
^7heoand potentially succeed.18:37
r0kk3rzpeople have been throwing time and money after that idea for years, and nobody has actually succeeded at it18:38
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r0kk3rzi really dont think a diaspora of open source hobbyists can create such a beast18:39
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p4prik4By curated mostly just meant that it's a centralized site that gives community tools. like I would even pay/or not mind freeware type things to have access to a place to look up apps under one roof. something close to like alternativeto.net but exclusively for Linux with fewer clicks to search for and download software. curated only in so far as helping you find software. maybe adding recommendations based on your software + sea18:48
p4prik4curate by adding editors choice etc what the Play store does pretty much18:49
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beidlthe issue afaict with linux in the hands of "average" users lies deep within technical and historical burden.18:55
r0kk3rzmeh, give me something by programmers for programmers18:55
beidlas Linus himself said, ABI stability is hit and miss, and this would require changes in the way all dislocated projects work torwards a common goal18:55
beidlr0kk3rz: you already have, sadly your way kills the possibility of consumer friendly Linux a little18:56
beidlnot trying to start a flamewar by any means18:57
r0kk3rzthe 'consumers' i know don't want linux anyway18:57
tadzikp4prik4: have you seen snap/flatpak? What are your thoughts?18:58
beidlsure, I wouldn't just want a kernel either :P18:58
beidl*just a kernel18:58
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r0kk3rzyeah yeah, you know i mean kernel + userspace :P18:59
beidlofc :)18:59
beidlhaven't heard of flatpak being talked about as an alternative on sfos for a long time, how's that going?19:00
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tortoisedochey19:03
tortoisedoccan someone tell if there's a way to create carddav accounts from command line?19:03
tortoisedocit so happens my jollac's screen is not reactive precisely on the username field so I cant enter it19:03
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tortoisedochmhm radio silence..19:07
tortoisedocthere was some vnc app on openrepos iirc..19:07
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tadzikI have no clue :(19:09
blopfreenx was better than vnc for a while, i had it running on a psion netbook19:10
p4prik4@tadzik ya snaps and flatpak are great and a step in right direction. appimages are a third option (my prefered). but for Linux to go big repositories need to up their game.  And I think the new installation formats make this a ripe time for someone to create an APP store19:11
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tortoisedocalso hcitool is not available for community device19:13
tortoisedocJollaC that is19:13
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blopp4prik4: you're young. you think app store is way to go.  it is not.  repositories are.19:24
p4prik4I'm speaking on behalf of average joe not me19:25
tadziktbh, as a user, I don't care whether I'm using an appstore or repositories19:25
tadzikas long as there's a nice UI in front of it, who cares19:25
r0kk3rzp4prik4: and what makes you spokesperson for average joe? what does he have to say about it?19:25
tadzikwhat does that hypothetical appstore provide that our regular repos don't?19:25
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r0kk3rza web ui and pretty downloader app? these things arent mutually exclusive of course19:27
p4prik4its a good question/if not the question. I can answer it... just bit busy.19:28
beidlalso consider seperation of system and user applications19:28
p4prik4ya r0kk3rz is on the right track19:28
blopon the other hand that brings up a point.  since the next generation thinks all software comes from an 'appstore'.  call the repository front end an 'appstore'.19:28
bloplike warehouse19:28
p4prik4think of all the conveniences the Playstore brings really19:28
p4prik4ya a repository front end store19:29
p4prik4would work too. point is a company needs to create it though19:29
beidlor the community and wait for consensus to never come :P19:29
p4prik4and appimages for linux can be treated very much like apks do for android19:29
p4prik4exactly @beidl19:30
beidlp4prik4: appimages are missing separation, permissions though19:30
p4prik4this is why jolla I feel would be well suited for this.19:30
p4prik4For app images just need extra step right. to make executable?19:31
beidlI mean like androids permission system. snaps I have to admit are very good at replicating and improving upon those ideas19:32
p4prik4I'm not versed in this, most just trying to ignite a fire here. If snaps way to go then sure. or a combination of formats. its the delivery that has to be less convoluted19:35
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beidldon't get me wrong, flatpaks have similar concepts, though not as versatile as in snap packages afaict19:41
beidland I'm pretty sure jolla won't build an app store upon snaps :)19:41
tadzikyour nickname sounds familiar beidl, have you created some apps? :)19:45
beidltadzik: haha yea19:48
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tadzikah, owncloud!19:49
tadzikcheers :)19:49
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beidltadzik: just pushed a new version, in case you use the app :)19:51
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tadzikI do! It confuses me recently though. That owncloud daemon that backs things up, is it configurable or visible in the UI anywhere?19:52
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beidltadzik: the settings UI in the main app should show additional options when the daemon is installed19:54
beidlI guess you have additional wishes? :)19:54
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tadzikooh19:56
tadzikthe settings are at the bottom!19:56
tadzikthat explains a lot of things19:56
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beidltadzik: ding ding ding :P19:58
beidlI'd recommend upgrading to the newest version via openrepos as well19:59
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tadzikI think I have the newest one, but I don't think the daemon updated20:00
tadzikstoreman claims that there is an update for it, but when I click on that it can't find it20:00
tadzikand I can't find it myself on the website either20:00
beidlbest to update via cmd line for the moment20:01
p4prik4https://discourse.appimage.org/t/a-discussion-on-the-chmod-x/162/16    <according to this the distribution has to implement a way to allow the app images ask for permissions.20:01
beidlp4prik4: you are talking about a different "kind" of permissions20:02
tadzikbeidl: but where is that daemon?20:02
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beidltadzik: uploaded afaict20:05
beidldo you have developer mode activated?20:06
beidldevel-su pkcon update harbour-owncloud-daemon20:06
beidljust to be sure, beforehand: devel-su pkcon refresh force20:06
tadzikah, it did install alright (I removed it before to see if it'll change anything)20:08
tadzikit still confuses my why it doesn't show on openrepos.net20:08
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beidltadzik: dey don wont tha app tah win, mane! :P20:17
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tadzik:o20:18
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