Tuesday, 2026-06-23

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zhashapoetaster: thanks, I don't know how I managed to forget to link the pulseaudio build but I've updated the post now12:13
zhashanephros_: thank you very much for those builds12:13
poetasterthanks!12:13
poetasternephros is your friend whenever you're in need :)12:14
zhashastill trying to decipher the spiderweb of components involved in making a phone call12:14
poetasterzhasha, I am blessed by rarely having to deal with the phone :)12:15
zhashaeven so, having mSBC available would be a boon to every application using a (bluetooth) microphone12:16
zhashaA2DP is unidirectional audio. When you activate the mic on a BT headset it switches to 1920s-audio-mode12:16
zhashaoh and thank you attah for the pulseaudio build and getting the ball rolling13:04
nephros_zhasha: I have taken the liberty of taking attah's fork and package only the bluez5-utils.so. Soon available at the OBS repo.13:05
zhashanice!13:05
zhashaI was hoping (though I don't think it's realistic at this point) to get it into the 5.2 build13:06
nephros_zhasha: do you know whether there is a second location where PA will look for modules?13:06
zhashano idea but I'll check the manual13:06
nephros_I'd like to avoid overwriting the original .so.13:06
malwhat pulseaudio build?13:09
nephros_mal: attah added gstreamer support to PA here: https://github.com/attah/sailfish-pulseaudio/tree/bluez5-gstreamer13:11
nephros_mal: And we're exprimenting with modern BT audio encodings here: https://build.sailfishos.org/project/monitor/home:nephros:devel:gst-bluetooth13:12
nephros_zhasha: I found the --dl-search-path= option to the PA daemon. So I'll put the special .so in /opt/pulseaudio/modules.13:13
zhashaYeah the "problem" is that bluez5-util isn't a module, but a dependency to the module, and PA uses ltdl to load the DSOs, not libc dlopen, but as far as I can tell it shouldn't be a problem as ltdl loads the DSO dependencies using itself recursively, and the search paths are (in order): the path set by --dl-search-path, env var LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH, env var LD_LIBRARY_PATH13:16
zhashanephros_: I'll happily test it out for you, but in about 5 minutes I'm leaving to pick up my kids and then cooking dinner, so it might be a few hours13:30
nephros_zhasha: no sweat at all! :)13:46
nephros_zhasha: Shold be ready now, try 'pkcon install pulseaudio-gst-bt'14:05
nephros_Does anyone know which part of the OS is reponsible for emergency shutdown on low battery?14:21
piggz[m]nephros_: dsme15:16
piggz[m]many times with the pinephone have I had to quickly telnet in and stop dsme to keep the phone on with a dead battery :D15:17
nephros_piggz[m]: thanks. I have the problem on the C2 with a bad USB-C port. It can happen that it "charges" but current is so low it actually loses charge.15:41
nephros_So it will happily dain to 3%..2%...1%....15:41
piggz[m]stop that service, and it will delay shutdown until its actually too late :D15:41
nephros_apparently you can set a min_level between 0 and 100 in "/etc/dsme/battery_levels.conf"15:53
attahnephros_: soo are we PRing this, or what remains?16:02
nephros_attah: maybe a couple of tests? But yeah we could; do you want me to PR my changes to your fork?16:10
nephros_(although actually should not be necessary, I only did some "special build" modifications)16:11
attahIf you made changes affecting the normal package, PR stat to sailfishos16:22
attahIf my changes were all that was needed there, i can do that part if you like16:23
attahBut newly packaged stuff i guess we need to ping e.g. mal about16:23
zhashaI'm having a bad time trying to get PA to load the alternative libbluez5-util.so. Nothing seems to work, not even LD_LIBRARY_PATH in its env16:25
zhashanothing in the ltdl source suggests that it tries the same dir as whatever is causing it to load16:26
attahzhasha: why exactly are we bothering with this?16:26
zhashaOstensibly to get people hooked on better codecs so Jolla wants to add it to the official build16:27
attahbut "an alternative .so file"16:28
attahwhy not just PR all the things and hope they sneak into 5.2?16:28
zhashathat's my preferred option but I frankly thought it unrealistic16:28
attahThere may be reason it would be... but i'm unaware of what those are16:29
attahsure, it might be 5.3, but apart from that16:29
zhashaI have no idea about their process. Getting stuff into distros has been a nightmare for me in the past16:29
joffhi all, i'm trying to install chum from packages16:30
joffhere is the error : Erreur fatale: rien ne fournit 'libyaml-cpp.so.0.6()(64bit)' qui est nécessaire pour l'élément sailfishos-chum-gui-0.6.12-1.13.1.bso.aarch64 à installer16:30
zhashaI'm all for just shooting off a PR with the 4 new packages16:31
joffsomeone know what to do ?16:31
attahjoff: that's chum *gui*, not chum (which is not something one installs)16:32
attahPresumably you just wait for it to have been rebuilt on 5.116:32
joffsorry ?16:32
joffi have this version : Installé        yaml-cpp-0.9.0+git3-1.7.1.jolla.aarch64 (installed)             A YAML parser and emitter for C++16:32
joffPresumably you just wait for it to have been rebuilt on 5.1 => >here it's possible to have after rebuilt ?16:33
attahand the so-version of that is 8 and/or 9 - not 6 like that chum-gui wants16:33
attahi don't understand the question16:33
joffhow install chum-gui to install after puremaps ?16:34
joffpuremaps is available on storeman ?16:34
attahwhat does puremaps have to do with anything?16:34
joffwhy can't install chum-gui ?16:35
attahjoff: i told you. Your yaml-cpp is too new. It was built against an older version16:36
joffok16:36
joffwhere can i get and install puremaps ?16:37
jofffrom command line or with storeman16:37
attahFind the chum thread on the forum. Ask when chum-gui might be available for 5.1, and then just roll with it.16:37
attahjoff: store has some version of it... that probably works16:38
joffok thank you16:40
attahI had no issues installing chum-gui from here https://sailfishos-chum.github.io/apps/sailfishos-chum-gui-installer/16:42
attahAnd perhaps pure maps from store might not work after all. Seems i have the chum *repo* configured so i seem to have a newer version from there already16:44
nephros_zhasha: OK, I mean I can either just adjust the package of the RPM, or you just copy the file over the system one.16:45
nephros_like you probably did with attah's build.16:45
nephros_But actually I didn't really follow the requirements here. So 1. pulse must support gstreamer, OK.16:46
nephros_And then gstreamer needs at least LDAC and AptX support.16:46
nephros_And then we're done?16:46
zhashayep16:46
nephros_And reading up on LC3, that one is ver likely not needed.16:47
zhashathat's really all there is to it. libbluez5-util just happens to be the only thing touched when enabling gstreamer support for bluetooth stuff in pulseaudio16:47
nephros_https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/LE-Audio-+-LC3-support16:47
nephros_^^^ that's much too new for SFOS ;)16:47
zhashaI think LC3 is supposed to replace SBC as the baseline codec in the future or something16:48
zhashayeah that looks... involved16:48
nephros_zhasha: yea but while they're at it they are replacing HFP and A2DP with it if I understand correctly.16:48
attahnephros_: Where do you have your packaging repos?16:50
nephros_attah: all over the place! :D :D16:50
nephros_But currently it's these: https://build.sailfishos.org/project/show/home:nephros:devel:gst-bluetooth16:51
nephros_I'd have to properly tar_git the libs before a PR but that's no bigiie.16:51
attahPlease do - and thanks in advance. That is really the big part.16:51
zhashaAAC should probably be included too16:51
nephros_OK I shall do my best.16:52
attahConfiguring pulseaudio was trivial, and presumably gst-plugins-bad too?16:52
nephros_but with all this multimedia stuff: do we have licensing/patent concerns for any of these?16:52
malremember the licensing issues with those codecs16:52
zhashaThe LDAC encoder is unencumbered16:52
zhashaAptX patents seem to have expired16:53
zhashanot sure about AAC16:53
nephros_attah: yea, it's just config. And I needed the libs packaged for PieWire anyway so those were already there,16:53
attahmal: meh :)16:53
nephros_AAC is Fraunhofer, the guys who are famous for both inventing and hindering MP3.16:54
zhashaAAC seems encumbered still16:54
attahOf course it is good to help you check that up, but ultimately it is for Jolla to say jay or nay16:54
nephros_I'll check Debian. If Debian ships it, it's probably OK.16:54
malfedora is another good place to check for things16:56
nephros_Eh, it's regarded non-free in Debian.16:56
nephros_Right, lets just skip aac for now.17:01
nephros_mal: do you see anything that would prevent inclusion of the two libs?17:02
malwhich libs?17:02
nephros_mal: ldacBT and freeaptx17:03
nephros_https://build.sailfishos.org/project/monitor/home:nephros:devel:gst-bluetooth17:03
nephros_(and yea I shall de-spectacle/yaml the build)17:04
nephros_Oh, and how do I do a "PR" for a new repo at github.com:sailfishos?17:08
malthere is no way to do that, issue-tracker maybe17:15
nephros_ok. I'll do proper tar_git packaging first, then the gst-plugins-bad PR, and ask for new repo in that PR.17:19
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nephros_zhasha: So, according to your Forum post, everything works fine?17:27
zhashaI haven't tried AptX but yeah I can switch to LDAC and it Just Works™17:29
zhashaI'll try AptX real quick17:29
nephros_wait a little pls, I just bumped freeaptx from 0.1.1 to 0.2.217:32
zhashait works fine pre-update at least17:32
zhashasay when and I'll update17:32
nephros_but very cool. I must test myself with my Douk box later17:32
zhashaI'm testing with a Qudelix 5K but I also have a Topping BC3 I can test with if you want some data diversity17:33
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nephros_frankly I don't care personally that much but its good to be able to point to successful tests.17:35
nephros_(I'm an analog guy wrt music ;) )17:36
zhashaas an engineer I like precision too much, so it's DSPs and class D amps for me17:37
zhashaas I said on the forum, I'm a salty about the lack of a 3.5mm port on the new Jolla phone so this seemed like a good opportunity to get BT audio up to snuff17:39
zhashaa bit salty*17:39
zhashastill gotta figure out why mSBC isn't working17:43
malhttps://github.com/mer-hybris/droid-hal-configs/blob/master/sparse/etc/pulse/default_sailfish.pa#L54 we had some issues with msbc breaking things in bt call audio if I remember correct after pulseaudio update17:47
zhashaYeah I found that, and when I enabled it I just lost audio during calls altogether17:48
zhashaI've been trying to figure out why17:48
nephros_zhasha: well at least there was PR #9 on Pulse,17:48
malyes, exactly that issue17:48
malin calls bt audio goes through android hal and somehow doing things in sailfish side breaks that17:49
malprobably both write things to hw and those cause conflict and break audio17:49
zhashaThanks mal, that's exactly the lead I was looking for :)17:50
malmaybe better way would be to only disable msbc when in call17:50
malneed to see how that could be done17:50
zhashapersonally I really only care about it for calling so I'll be debugging it either way17:51
malthat way android hal could do whatever it wants during calls and for normal audio it would be enabled17:51
malafaik android hal should be using it, not fully sure17:52
nephros_mal: did you play with SDL3 recently?17:53
nephros_attah: so I guess the Pulse PR is yours, and I'll do the gst-plugins-bad stuff?17:56
attahnephros_: worksforme17:57
nephros_nice, I like this!17:57
attahhttps://github.com/sailfishos/pulseaudio/pull/1018:06
nephros_https://github.com/sailfishos/gst-plugins-bad/pull/1218:09
nephros_:D18:09
attah:D18:19
zhashaYou guys are great18:19
toastal_Cool18:24
malis there noticeable difference in quality with that aptx?18:28
nephros_https://github.com/sailfishos/gst-plugins-bad/pull/1318:29
zhashaFrom my admittedly limited experience, AptX is only about as good as SBC-552, with AptX HD being close enough to lossless that you need fairly good equipment to hear it, and LDAC requiring very good equipment to hear it18:31
KetoI'll link those to our internal bug. Probably won't get into 5.2 due to very tight schedule at the moment, but lets see18:32
maldoes pulseaudio use that to both directions, since the SRC (encoder) is free but SNK (decoder) needs license18:44
malI mean LDAC18:45
nephros_Keto: if you link it to your bug, maybe mention that there's the three PRs mentioned here, plus two new packaging repos required for the new libs.18:46
malall those were mentioned in the bugs, one bug for each codec18:48
zhashamal: gstreamer only links to ldacBT-enc, so you should be fine18:51
zhashahttps://joakim.sindho.lt/p/yNEOy6n_tKDEJWZZPyskorNMRK2WTFeM1ctIP6uJN1iL.txt18:52
attahSeems a bit odd to have additional restrictions on top of apache-licensed libldac19:12
attahIt already explicitly grants patent rights, so what line of authority could anyone even have?19:12
nephros_true but media codecs have always been a mess wrt licensing and patents.19:14
attahAha, the difference between freeaptx and openaptx is that the latter moved to gpl319:14
attahTrue, but it was literally contributed by the rights-holder19:15
zhashaWhat are the conditions for the license grant?19:15
attahfor what?19:16
zhashalibldac19:16
zhasha'cause legally speaking you can make up any old bullshit you want when it comes to patent licenses19:17
attahThe Apache license explicitly grants patent rights is what i mean, and irrevocable at that19:17
zhashaoh19:17
attahSure, but they used a proper open source one, and walking that back should be hard19:17
attahSupposedly Sony wants "certification"19:17
nephros_The encoder of LDAC is open-source under Apache License 2.0, so that any device can be coded to transmit LDAC streams without patent or licensing issues. The decoder design remains proprietary.19:18
attahnot sure iof that is enc dec or both... but still19:18
nephros_^^^ Wikipedia19:18
attahwell then19:18
malsony website also says that encoding is fine, decoding needs license, aptx is from sony19:19
zhashathere doesn't seem to be a decoder in libldac from AOSP19:19
attahit would seem we are good then19:19
zhashaAptX is from Qualcomm19:20
zhashahttps://www.gizmochina.com/2023/03/20/qualcomm-aptx-and-aptx-hd-encoders-android-license/19:23
nephros_Generally you can  "open source" whatever and still claim patents, but with Apache it's BAM, nope, no patents for you.19:24
nephros_freeaptx is LGPL2.1, which of course is super complicated.19:25
zhashahttps://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/Bluetooth/+/refs/heads/master/system/embdrv/encoder_for_aptx/19:26
zhashahttps://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/modules/Bluetooth/+/refs/heads/master/system/embdrv/encoder_for_aptxhd/19:26
zhashaboth Apache licensed19:26
maldoes gstreamer use aptx decoding and encoding or just encoding like ldac?19:28
zhashano, it has a decoder too19:29
joff_hi all, i'm sorry but how it's possible to install puremaps with sailfishos version 5.1.0.11 (Pispala) ?19:30
joff_with latest puremaps version19:31
nephros_joff_: should be fine, with the 5.1 version from Chum.19:31
joff_where do you download it ?19:32
joff_from pkcon ?19:32
nephros_joff_: you use Chum GUI to install it.19:32
joff_i can't install chum-gui properly19:32
nephros_joff_: aha, okay.19:33
nephros_which device/architecture?19:33
joff_sony xperia 10 III19:33
nephros_so aarch64. fine.19:33
joff_yes19:33
joff_but as i said to another person here19:34
nephros_joff_: look for RPM here: https://repo.sailfishos.org/obs/sailfishos:/chum/5.1_aarch64/aarch64/19:34
joff_ok19:34
nephros_joff_: you should also find a compatible package of chum gui there.19:35
joff_ok i try19:36
attahAnd as i said before - this works fine for me https://sailfishos-chum.github.io/apps/sailfishos-chum-gui-installer/19:36
attahi.e. downloading it from there19:36
joff_thanks a lot nephros_19:37
malwondering about aptx, fedora doesn't include it because of some issues19:40
nephros_mal: tech or legal?19:40
mallegal afaik19:40
nephros_I mean, if ldac goes in, and aptx does not, we're still better off than now...19:41
nephros_pity is, it seems more devices/boxes/headphones are marketed with AptX support than LDAC.19:42
nephros_but that is not based on extensive market research, just a feeling.19:43
zhashaI mean we could just nuke the decoder from freeaptx19:44
zhashait's not a large library19:44
mala bit confused also how the codec things work, what does the decoding, the headset itself or the phone/other connected to the headset19:46
attahIn this case the phone encodes sound to be sent to the decoder in the headphones, no?19:46
zhashapulseaudio encodes the audio and the headset decodes it19:47
zhashaThis is all A2DP stuff, totally unidirectional audio19:47
malhmm, where does one need decoder then in reality, I mean the license in ldac? only headphone manufacturers?19:48
attahsounds like it19:49
zhashaYeah pretty much. Anyone making a BT thing that ingests LDAC audio19:49
malof course phone can be a bluetooth receiving end also, like playing audio from laptop to a phone, not really useful often though19:49
malin theory at least19:49
zhashahttps://joakim.sindho.lt/p/U2kPmwGs8ajSZqdrZByjMgb1QLnUXp9i1zgwOnzpD9Ts.txt19:50
zhasharemove decoder from freeaptx19:50
zhashahaven't tried deploying it on my phone but PulseAudio doesn't even try to the decoder so I doubt it would be a problem19:52
malyeah, needs to be checked in pulseaudio and gstreamer what those do19:53
zhashagstreamer makes the decoder available19:53
zhashahttps://github.com/sailfishos-mirror/gstreamer/blob/e6ee9e63e033b9c8e343ba0bdfa7590ef81449ee/subprojects/gst-plugins-bad/ext/openaptx/gstopenaptxdec.c19:54
zhashaPulseAudio also makes the decoder available it seems https://github.com/sailfishos/pulseaudio/blob/master/src/modules/bluetooth/a2dp-codec-aptx-gst.c19:55
zhashabut again, just stubbing it out in freeaptx should stop it being a legal issue19:56
zhashaAnd if we remove this singular line from gstreamer then it won't advertise the now-missing decoder either: https://github.com/sailfishos-mirror/gstreamer/blob/e6ee9e63e033b9c8e343ba0bdfa7590ef81449ee/subprojects/gst-plugins-bad/ext/openaptx/openaptx-plugin.c#L4320:00
nephros_zhasha: are you on github? could you add your findings to one of the PRs?20:23
nephros_https://github.com/sailfishos/gst-plugins-bad/pull/1220:24
zhashaDone, though I have a particular hatred for using Microsoft's premier social media platform20:35
zhashayou guys have been so helpful that I don't want to be a difficult about it20:36
nephros_zhasha: I feel you! Unfortunately improving SFOS urrently is not possible without this.20:38
nephros_zhasha: Thanks!20:38
zhashaFWIW I just stubbed out the decoder function and removed code until I ran out of unused function/variable warnings20:39
zhashaI have not tested the patch beyond building it locally20:40
zhashaI don't even need AptX, I just think it would be a tragedy not to have it since, as you said, it's far more common than LDAC20:41
nephros_zhasha: it's fine. I think we've done as much as we can do. Now the ball is in pvuorela's court.20:41
zhashaI'm gonna go to bed now. Ping me if you want me to test something, and thanks for all your work20:43
nephros_... g'night! same to you! :)20:44
nephros_and thanks20:44

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