11:02:37 <Stskeeps> #startmeeting Nemo Steering roup Meeting 13/12/2011
11:02:37 <MerBot> Meeting started Tue Dec 13 11:02:37 2011 UTC.  The chair is Stskeeps. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
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11:02:55 <Stskeeps> #topic Status
11:03:19 <niqt> hi
11:03:44 <Stskeeps> so we are we at? From Core side, we have a toolchain upgrade ongoing which will give us qtwebkit 2.2 on armv7hl, but expect a possible drop in quality when this one comes out as it is much more strict about symbols and library dependancies
11:04:33 <Stskeeps> i've also been working on upgrading the fbdev-sgx driver but running into more bizarre non-upstreamed patches (to sort out the tearing issue on n950/n9)
11:05:12 <Stskeeps> how about the rest of you? :)
11:05:22 <Sage> I can continue a bit.
11:05:50 <Sage> I made a draft of the OBS project structure diagram: http://sage.kapsi.fi/Mer/misc/Nemomobile-OBS-project-structure-draft.png
11:06:41 <Sage> Would be nice to get some comments on it. I will push it to the wiki at some point after getting some comments on it.
11:07:01 <Stskeeps> looks pretty accurate, and enables us to know what will happen if we pull out for instance tracker, or mtf
11:07:28 <Sage> ah, point. Need to add some hack projects :P
11:07:37 <Sage> Tracker stuff isn't in any of those atm.
11:07:42 <Stskeeps> and knowing where to submit in the stack
11:08:40 <Sage> That image isn't complete I didn't put all the projects there yet, but only the ones that are publicly accepted as part of the nemo mobile.
11:09:02 <Stskeeps> :nod:
11:09:24 <veskuh> Tracker stuff needs to go in. Realistically speaking we cannot remove it unless we get  a lot more contributions.
11:09:29 <Stskeeps> #info http://sage.kapsi.fi/Mer/misc/Nemomobile-OBS-project-structure-draft.png
11:09:36 <Stskeeps> #info http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/llvmpipejoy.png
11:10:00 <Sage> veskuh: yes but those components needs a lot of cleaning that I haven't had time to do.
11:10:14 <Stskeeps> #info Nemo on top of LLVMpipe/X86 in a VirtualBox. 21-25fps in widgets gallery, QML apps not all working for some reason, on a single-core non-hardware virtualization machine
11:10:47 <Stskeeps> #info pre-alpha on http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/meego-nemo-handset-i586-testing-0.20111128.3.CE.2011-12-01.2-
11:11:13 <Sage> veskuh: I don't want to push packages in that aren't packaged properly as that would most probably mean that it will end up being there for the rest of the time. Current solution having the separate :Tracker project is working nicely.
11:11:49 <Sage> About the OBS and BOSS.
11:11:58 <veskuh> Sage: yep, makes sense
11:12:57 <Sage> The BOSS has improved quite a bit during last months from the user point of view and we contributions have been moving much more smootly. New update was done yesterday which fixes some problematic points.
11:13:40 <Sage> In case of problems with the contributions feel free to ping me at #nemomobile
11:14:04 <Sage> Then I have two things that would need testing:
11:14:37 <Sage> 1) qt-mobility organizer is available at home:sage:mkcal that isn't tested and would be nice to get merged to Mer Core if it works as such
11:15:16 <Stskeeps> :nod: i plan to do a push for qtwebkit 2.2 + qt mobility organizer, plus qmf and such after toolchain upgrade
11:15:39 <Sage> 2) telepathy packages are available at home:sage:telepathy and would need also testing. These are going to be merged to the CE:MW:Shared after we have verified the functionality.
11:16:29 <Sage> So if we have people interested on testing those I would be interested about the results.
11:16:43 <niqt> i'll test organizer in this week
11:17:18 <veskuh> BTW; Please file those as task's in relevant bugzilla's. Applies also to other clear TODO items. easier to track what is happening.
11:17:22 <Sage> That is about the status I have atm. I have couple of questions to SG though but I'll ask those after status. (cc: Stskeeps)
11:17:27 * w00t has (still) been working on qt5 stuff the past weeks, may be bootstrapping brikon nemo a bit in coming days as she might have some spare time on her hands
11:17:27 <Stskeeps> :nod:
11:17:29 <niqt> telepapthy package is with qt-telepatht or only telepathy?
11:17:52 <Sage> niqt: there is telepathy-qt4 as well
11:17:57 <Stskeeps> #info http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/marketing/2011-December/000050.html may also be relevant for Nemo, with a Qt5 perspective
11:18:00 <niqt> ok
11:18:01 <Sage> veskuh: ok, Will create bugs for those.
11:18:29 <Sage> veskuh: the organizer is a mer bug though.
11:18:51 <Sage> as qt-mobility is part of mer core
11:19:10 <veskuh> I've been mostly working on testing, testing bug fixes and fixing bugs. I've tried to actively update bugzilla on my findigs. And currently I'm investigating bug #2 Device does not notify user from incoming call
11:19:39 <veskuh> for ringtone the issue is in theme. Also tones are themed and darko does not have tones. For ui pop-up reason unclear.
11:21:04 <veskuh> And one thing about N9 support. It seems that for official moslo we might have to wait for 1.2. which is bad news.
11:21:28 <veskuh> of course if somebody from community finds a way.. ;-)
11:21:43 <Stskeeps> marquiz has been contributing some work in his free time on an unofficial moslo, which he is working with vgrade to test
11:22:04 <Stskeeps> but still alpha
11:25:40 <Stskeeps> ok, moving on to AOB
11:25:42 <Stskeeps> #topic AOB
11:26:16 <Stskeeps> http://identi.ca/attachment/62021057 , Nemo hardware adaptation seen in the field
11:27:42 <Sage> I have question to the SG: how user can contribute new hardware adaptation as part of nemo mobile? Is that possible?
11:28:28 <Sage> No need to decide now just wanted to raise the question as we have seen a lot of new adaptation around and would be nice if we could help users to maintain them in a controlled manner.
11:29:57 <Stskeeps> personally if they are under redistributable licenses and legally sound, open source mostly, they are OK to join?
11:30:02 <Stskeeps> similar to how we ourselves work
11:30:32 <Sage> So we can just create CE:Adapatation: X project for those?
11:30:45 <Stskeeps> if we have a owner for it who takes bugs for it, i guess
11:31:39 <Sage> and can the adaptation maintainer then call it "official" port or how would that go? atm. we have N900, N950, x86-generic as the "official" ports.
11:32:04 <veskuh> that would need be approved by SG.
11:32:05 <Stskeeps> i guess it depends on quality, they're kinda at another level than UI
11:32:11 <Stskeeps> but yeah, approval by SG
11:32:34 <Sage> And after approved by SG will that port be part of the released images?
11:32:54 <Stskeeps> on a sidenote, i'm planning on kickstarting mer governance soon, http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Governance_draft - and Nemo would be an obvious Interest Group
11:33:23 <Stskeeps> Sage: makes sense i guess
11:33:53 <Sage> We should probably create a wiki page about this as "Hardware Adaptation Contribution to Nemo Mobile" or something?
11:34:53 <veskuh> Yes, something like that. In general we should have more documentation how to contribute.
11:35:01 <Sage> anyway lets give it a moment and come back to next meeting or so.
11:35:18 <Sage> and create a draft proposal of that process.
11:35:29 <Sage> that sounds ok to all?
11:35:43 <veskuh> Yep.
11:36:00 <Stskeeps> ok
11:36:20 <Sage> Ok, then to another thing. With is related to bugzilla entries in changelogs.
11:36:39 <Sage> We have agreed to have NEMO#<number> as the bugzilla format, right?
11:36:43 <Stskeeps> right
11:37:25 <Sage> That isn't always enough because changelog can mention bug entry also like "Part of the fix for NEMO#X"
11:38:26 <Sage> There is a plan to use BOSS automation with bugzilla so that after bug is fixed and marked in changelog it would be set automatically as released by BOSS after a fix is accepted to the official CE: projects
11:38:45 <Stskeeps> :nod:
11:39:29 <Sage> So now the question is that if we should actually define the syntax a bit more. Lets say when fixing a bug the changelog would need to be in format "- Fixes NEMO#<nb>: comment..."
11:40:08 <Sage> or something similar
11:40:10 <Stskeeps> make a guidelines wiki page perhaps
11:41:09 <Sage> Yes, that needs to be done.
11:41:31 <Sage> Any objections for specifying the format more for these kinds of things?
11:42:03 <veskuh> No, but lets not do any overkill here. Simple format defining couple of things.
11:42:03 <Stskeeps> send a proposal to mailing list?
11:42:04 <mikhas> I would advice to include the full bug title
11:42:15 <Sage> Also the decision can go to next meeting. And just create a proposal to wiki about the format.
11:42:35 <veskuh> I would trust your judgement, no SG decisision needed
11:42:40 <Sage> mikhas: bug title can change. But it should always be commented.
11:43:28 <Sage> veskuh: yes, the point is not to make it too complicated. And to get bugzilla entries closed properly automatically.
11:44:27 <Stskeeps> :nod:
11:44:38 <Stskeeps> i'd trust sage's judgement too, of course some review would be good first :)
11:45:19 <Sage> ok, I'll try to draft a proposal before next meeting (no need to handle in SG just need some deadline ;))
11:45:47 <Stskeeps> ok, anything else or can we close the meeting?
11:45:50 <Sage> I think that is all from me.
11:46:02 <veskuh> couple of thigns
11:46:37 <veskuh> I'd like to see more activity on bugzillas
11:47:02 <Stskeeps> should we start monday morning with a triage?
11:47:11 <Stskeeps> i mean, better to triage bugs than cause monday accidents :)
11:47:22 <Sage> hehe, agreed ;)
11:47:32 <veskuh> If that helps, then yes.
11:47:37 <Stskeeps> i think it would
11:47:52 <Stskeeps> 10:00 finnish time for bug triages in here on mondays?
11:48:05 <veskuh> fine by me.
11:48:10 <Sage> who will be leading that?
11:48:23 <Stskeeps> anyone can, i guess, we just have to create some bugzilla searches on need-triage@
11:48:42 <Sage> ok. sounds good.
11:48:46 <Stskeeps> ok
11:48:54 <Stskeeps> #info 10:00 monday finnish time, weekly bug triages
11:49:24 <veskuh> Then the second worry is that on user visible issues in nemo the progress is slowing down a bit, since the easy fix stuff is starting to be fixed.
11:49:33 <Stskeeps> :nod:
11:50:07 <Sage> veskuh: we would need an update for the whole MTF packaging.
11:50:10 <Stskeeps> i think we should do a review on hardware adaptation things that we ought to fix while we can as well
11:50:20 <veskuh> So I'd hope that the guys contributing would also step a bit outside of comfort zone to take a look once in awhile if there is anything they could fix.
11:51:20 <Stskeeps> as UI is something we can always do, while hardware adaptation has a expiry date
11:51:38 <mikhas> how long do you intend to keep MTF in Nemo?
11:52:03 <w00t> mikhas: it'll probably always be there (well, at least until it becomes an inconvenience) for applications in harmattan that might use it </imho>
11:52:13 <veskuh> Practical view would be as long as we do not have qml replacements for main apps.
11:52:25 <Stskeeps> long term we have to look at qt5 as well, which MTF doesn't fit too well into
11:52:26 <w00t> "when it becomes an inconvenience" probably being when there's a real push for qt5
11:52:26 <mikhas> how much pain is it causing right now?
11:52:36 <w00t> mikhas: in the applications we use, a lot
11:52:43 <Stskeeps> mikhas: systemui, compositor, settings, ..
11:52:55 <mikhas> because I look at the latest patches that go in, and it's all totally N9 related
11:52:58 <w00t> dialer (yes, still), sms, ...
11:53:23 <mikhas> and the quality of the patches is more a less "permament workaround"
11:53:29 <mikhas> *or
11:53:59 <Stskeeps> best way to fix it is effort to get rid of MTF apps, at least
11:54:13 <Stskeeps> homescreen can probably be replaced with lipstick eventualy
11:55:04 <Stskeeps> but that's a longer topic
11:55:17 <Stskeeps> let's continue further in daily irc discussions?
11:57:58 <Stskeeps> ok, finishing up the meeting
11:58:03 <Stskeeps> thank you all for coming
11:58:05 <Stskeeps> #endmeeting