12:00:24 <Stskeeps> #startmeeting Mer release management meeting 24/1/2012
12:00:24 <MerBot`> Meeting started Tue Jan 24 12:00:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is Stskeeps. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
12:00:24 <MerBot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:00:40 <Stskeeps> #topic Since last
12:00:49 <Stskeeps> #topic Since last
12:01:35 <Stskeeps> #info Released 0.20120120.1
12:02:02 <Stskeeps> bunch of upgrades, fixes, qt4.8.0, etc, but not qtwebkit 2.1.0 yet, as well as switching to GNU style symbol hashes for platforms that support it (MIPS don't)
12:02:41 <Stskeeps> #info First booting to qmlviewer on MIPS (O32 ABI, MIPS32 processors), http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mer-on-mipsel-qemu.png
12:03:02 <Stskeeps> #info Mer reference image kickstarts, http://releases.merproject.org/releases/0.20120120.1/kickstarts/
12:03:16 <Stskeeps> anything else?
12:03:38 <Stskeeps> oh, and
12:03:43 <Stskeeps> #info FOSDEM ARM BoF: http://fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/arm_bof
12:03:58 <lbt> from me
12:03:59 <lbt> #info Significant progress on the sample HA packaging
12:04:19 <lbt> #info Joggler HA now works
12:04:49 <lbt> #info Wiki structuring effort started and looks good
12:05:30 <lbt> that's most of what I've been doing
12:06:58 <Stskeeps> right, switching to plans
12:07:12 <Stskeeps> (unless anyone else has anything to report in "since last" ?)
12:07:25 * lbt looks at phaeron ... :)
12:07:31 <phaeron> mmm
12:07:33 <Stskeeps> oh, right
12:07:39 <phaeron> I hate spectacle :D
12:07:50 <Stskeeps> #info OBS exports 'blocked' state over the repository cache
12:07:56 <phaeron> we should take over developing
12:08:09 <Stskeeps> phaeron: fork it and call it mer-spectacle
12:08:16 <phaeron> Stskeeps: agree
12:08:32 <phaeron> Stskeeps: oh yeah about that , are you using something to detect whether a repo is published
12:08:36 <phaeron> before downloading its state
12:08:47 <Stskeeps> yes, myself ;)
12:08:58 <phaeron> oh :D
12:09:08 <lbt> rofl
12:09:11 <Stskeeps> didn't work this time, must be a bug
12:09:20 <phaeron> there's a function to check for that in python-buildservice
12:09:24 * lbt offers to make a patch for Stskeeps...
12:09:33 <phaeron> heh what component do I report it against
12:09:49 <phaeron> anyway
12:09:51 <Stskeeps> .Other and catch in triage
12:10:24 <Stskeeps> i stole some of phaeron's packages and added a bit on top, https://build.pub.meego.com/project/packages?project=home%3Astskeeps%3Atools
12:10:27 <Stskeeps> with a working 'mic'
12:11:05 <lbt> OK - I want those tools to go through some kind of QA release cycle too
12:11:13 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:11:14 <lbt> we did this in Nokia and it's a PITA
12:11:21 <lbt> really really annoying
12:11:28 <lbt> so we need to do better
12:11:51 <phaeron> yeah but the difference is this time we're mostly forking them
12:11:53 <Stskeeps> the idea was to create a Mer Tools project, right?
12:11:59 <lbt> Stskeeps: yes
12:12:08 <lbt> it's actually #1 on my 'plans'
12:12:09 <phaeron> no meego upstream to scream at
12:12:11 <Stskeeps> then we can take it over gerrit and release it against mer core
12:12:19 <lbt> Carry on with SDK (including Mers tools setup)
12:12:33 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:13:14 * phaeron wanted to try review board ..
12:13:15 <lbt> then #2 is Take a look at infra backlog - IMG probably highest prio
12:13:35 <lbt> phaeron: yeah ... we were supposed to have a months trial of gerrit....
12:13:49 <phaeron> month's or months'
12:13:56 <phaeron> :D
12:14:12 <lbt> OTOH it seems to provide a reasonable service
12:14:31 <lbt> my concern is that we're getting towards needing a pkgDB
12:14:48 <phaeron> I vote for having one inside obs
12:14:54 <lbt> yeah ...
12:15:07 <lbt> I'm kinda leaning that way
12:15:11 <phaeron> \o/
12:15:45 <lbt> as usual I worry about monolithic OBS
12:16:56 <Stskeeps> ideally no strict ties to obs, if anything, to the core's .xml descriptions
12:17:57 <lbt> having text based is the other idea
12:18:28 <lbt> tbh it's still a little in the distance
12:18:39 <lbt> getting QA process sorted first is higher prio for me
12:18:42 <Stskeeps> yes
12:18:48 <lbt> if anything cleaning up IMG
12:19:06 <lbt> though phaeron did most of that already
12:19:54 <lbt> so phaeron lets put RB on the back burner for a couple of weeks?
12:19:59 <phaeron> ok
12:20:01 <lbt> bring it up again after FOSDEM ?
12:20:04 <Stskeeps> yes
12:20:27 <lbt> hmm Stskeeps, you're away-ish next week
12:20:32 <Stskeeps> yes, anyone up for chairing?
12:20:32 <Stskeeps> :P
12:20:37 <lbt> sure
12:20:40 <Stskeeps> ok, plans time
12:20:45 <lbt> any agenda items for a FOSDEM meetup?
12:21:18 <Stskeeps> icecream?
12:21:22 <lbt> maybe just action each of us to identify topics best suited to f2f meetings
12:21:28 <lbt> like icecream:)
12:21:54 <Stskeeps> let's think a bit about that during the week
12:21:57 <Stskeeps> #topic Plans
12:22:46 <Stskeeps> i'm currently moving SB2-OBS into Mer production, as stated on the mailing list
12:22:52 <Stskeeps> so we're intentionally first releasing in a few weeks
12:23:16 <Stskeeps> as well as adding MIPS port on top when we have it
12:23:32 <Stskeeps> this will require SB2-OBS to be accessible in package form for people having OBS'es and local builds
12:23:45 <Stskeeps> ie, packages of obs
12:23:53 <phaeron> oh yeag
12:23:56 <phaeron> *h
12:24:02 <Stskeeps> and COBS should have it :)
12:24:35 <phaeron> I looked at how opensuse build their rpms. they use the source service to pull from git
12:24:43 <Stskeeps> ok
12:24:44 <Stskeeps> can we do same?
12:24:59 <phaeron> if lbt agrees to enable it :)
12:25:16 <lbt> if we do it properly
12:25:17 <Stskeeps> build.opensuse.org is a bit hosed atm, so let's not rely on that one for builds
12:25:35 <timoph> I think it would be saner than uploading tarballs to obs
12:25:47 <timoph> just my 0.02
12:26:00 <phaeron> it , is a bit hackish though :(
12:26:20 <phaeron> lbt: so we need to look at that again
12:26:49 <lbt> I'd like to see git push to OBS rather than the other way round
12:27:17 <phaeron> pandora's box
12:27:34 <timoph> so obs would host a git repo that you commit to?
12:27:39 <phaeron> I agree of course
12:27:46 <lbt> timoph: no need
12:27:53 <phaeron> timoph: no git commit pushes to obs
12:28:07 <lbt> git/gerrit/boss trigger sends a tarball to OBS
12:28:13 <Stskeeps> also, we have to do this within two weeks..
12:28:13 <timoph> ah. ok
12:28:13 <Stskeeps> :P
12:28:15 <lbt> possibly tarball+patches
12:28:24 <phaeron> Stskeeps: that's the problem :)
12:28:28 <lbt> we have to build packages in 2 weeks
12:28:42 <lbt> we don't need a tools cycle within 2 weeks
12:28:50 <Stskeeps> yes, ok
12:29:13 <lbt> the critical thing is that we document (spec) it well enought that any one of us can do it manually
12:29:16 <lbt> then we automate it
12:29:24 <lbt> not the other way around
12:29:48 <Stskeeps> ideally also able for people using mer in their own obs to pick it up
12:30:09 <lbt> yes
12:30:22 <Stskeeps> but anyway, just stating what's coming, so noone's surprised when their builds fail ;)
12:30:59 <lbt> hehe
12:31:05 <Stskeeps> some tasks for bugzilla
12:31:14 <Stskeeps> #info add 'mipsel' architecture support to 'mic'
12:31:54 <phaeron> and to cobs ?
12:32:06 <Stskeeps> i guess
12:32:07 <Stskeeps> btw
12:32:20 <Stskeeps> #info obs: 'mipsel' architecture doesn't work in practice, 'mips' does
12:32:21 <Stskeeps> :P
12:32:26 <Stskeeps> so it's Core_mipsel / mips
12:32:33 <Stskeeps> mipsel simply won't work in meta prj
12:32:42 <phaeron> yet another alias
12:32:44 <lbt> yeah ... that naming needs more explanation
12:33:04 <lbt> see http://releases.merproject.org/releases/latest/builds/armv7l/packages/
12:33:38 <Stskeeps> the arm* dirs will hopefully go down in amount with sb2
12:34:09 <lbt> meanwhile could we explain them somewhere
12:34:12 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:35:20 <Stskeeps> there's a lot less hocus pocus going on with the new cross compile approach, so
12:35:40 <lbt> that's a good part of the justification then
12:35:50 <lbt> and deomonstration of Mer value add
12:36:12 <lbt> (ie it's worthwhile documenting the old rubbish)
12:37:28 <lbt> anyhow, yes, add mips to mic and obs - with documentation in the wiki in http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Arch
12:38:21 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:39:53 <lbt> infra then
12:40:34 <lbt> I'm thinking we can get an IMG setup or a base Mer COBS setup before FOSDEM
12:40:39 <lbt> probably not both
12:41:00 <lbt> given SDK/Tools is higher prio (which I agree with)
12:41:13 <lbt> we have a c.obs and no signs yet of shutdown
12:41:25 <lbt> Intel will give us some notice I'm sure
12:41:35 <lbt> so IMHO that's low prio until they do
12:42:03 <lbt> and I think X-Fade is keeping current backups of key stuff
12:42:36 <lbt> so I would like to use swerden's machine for an IMG deployment
12:43:07 <lbt> the other use was to take the wiki onboard - but then we get into ldap and stuff
12:43:30 <lbt> so IMG is more valuable
12:43:34 <Stskeeps> mm, i respectfully disagree, as we're not only putting us in risk, but also PA, Nemo efforts - and i don't want to rely on notices, as i think we already had one
12:43:35 <lbt> .
12:43:45 <Stskeeps> so i'd prefer base COBS setup, even if minimal
12:44:02 <Stskeeps> as this was what we were approached with at first, with the PA angle in mind as well
12:44:10 <Stskeeps> to show progress
12:44:30 <lbt> if we deploy cobs to it we can't use it for IMG
12:44:36 <lbt> so no image creation
12:44:51 <Stskeeps> i know, and for the nearby laying things, we can do manual image creation
12:44:54 <Stskeeps> ie, platform sdk, etc
12:45:00 <lbt> have you heard anything on meego cobs?
12:45:21 <lbt> it's only january and we got april as an indication
12:45:58 <Stskeeps> also, another thing to perhaps keep in mind: IMG supporting 'mic'
12:46:11 <phaeron> that's easy
12:46:15 <Stskeeps> that needs to be done as well
12:46:25 <Stskeeps> #info IMG should support 'mic'
12:46:33 <phaeron> one character change at least
12:46:38 <lbt> :D
12:46:41 <Stskeeps> phaeron: bit more than that :)
12:47:05 <lbt> it should also use the Mer SDK/bootstrap
12:47:11 <phaeron> the options seem to be mostly the same and most of them are inside the kickstart anyway
12:47:22 <lbt> but anyhow...
12:48:33 <lbt> the other thing from my PoV is getting into a c.obs setup is a move away from the process and RE
12:48:50 <lbt> and I don't really want to context switch just yet
12:49:27 <Stskeeps> well, you're of course welcome to select your own priorities - i'd personally like us to be on a level where we have a development OBS we aren't afraid will disappear at any minute
12:49:37 <Stskeeps> but OK, if you want to go with IMG, go with IMG
12:49:49 <lbt> I do agree
12:49:55 <lbt> and c.obs is very high on the list
12:50:01 <Stskeeps> even a FE/BE that responds without workers is fine
12:50:26 <phaeron> is the new machine physically connected to the same infra ?
12:50:28 <lbt> no
12:50:44 <lbt> there's a lot of vpn tunneling I need to review
12:50:49 <phaeron> ah so one machine won't be able to host cobs + surrounds
12:50:55 <lbt> it seemed to take a lot of cpu to encrypt
12:51:12 <lbt> it's a single 4-thread 8Gb machine
12:51:13 <Stskeeps> lbt: this was when i forgot to add obs worker cache
12:51:14 <Stskeeps> :P
12:51:21 <lbt> Stskeeps: hehe
12:51:22 <lbt> OK
12:51:46 <lbt> phaeron: oh, and it runs suse 12.1
12:52:00 <phaeron> fun
12:52:03 <lbt> yeah
12:52:15 <lbt> 3Tb disks wouldn't boot on 11.4
12:52:23 <lbt> or something like that
12:52:46 <Stskeeps> lbt: OK, how about 'set up IMG' and 'wiki page describing migration plan and setup for new-COBS'?
12:52:55 <Stskeeps> along with some dates
12:53:25 <lbt> and spec
12:53:26 <Stskeeps> for pre-FOSDEM
12:54:12 <Stskeeps> i think that works for me, then we can show activity and actual plans
12:54:45 <lbt> is Stefan going do you know?
12:54:59 <Stskeeps> good question, let's ask?
12:54:59 <lbt> our phone conferences were not very useful
12:55:12 <Stskeeps> there's a lot of opensuse people going, so
12:55:13 <phaeron> I agree that living up to the promise and making people safe when they bet on you is important
12:55:34 <phaeron> *feel safe
12:55:44 <Stskeeps> we also need a plan for Nemo BOSS migration, too
12:56:08 <lbt> yeah, true
12:56:20 <lbt> ouch
12:56:30 <lbt> that's a lot of sysadmin work
12:56:34 <phaeron> that's what I meant by surrounds
12:56:45 <lbt> phaeron: I misunderstood
12:57:07 <lbt> I thought "I've not heard anyone mention Surrounds in a long time..."
12:57:38 <phaeron> I didn't know it was a reserved keyword :D
12:58:08 <lbt> #info prepare migration plan and setup for a Mer COBS. Describe what's needed to make it happen.
12:58:31 <lbt> Stskeeps: we could do that on 4 of the Hetzner machines couldn't we?
12:58:45 <Stskeeps> dowhich?
12:58:51 <lbt> complete COBS
12:59:04 <Stskeeps> not workers
12:59:09 <Stskeeps> we need space for CI OBS
12:59:17 <lbt> no, 4 new one
12:59:19 <lbt> s
12:59:20 <lbt> just saying that for $600 + $200 per month
12:59:44 <Stskeeps> that is true, though i'd like to see how much it actually costs in traffic for remote workers too
13:00:09 <Stskeeps> we do have something like 40tb traffic each on the phosts we have
13:00:23 <Stskeeps> er, total
13:00:32 <lbt> allowance or used?
13:00:37 <Stskeeps> allowance
13:00:43 <lbt> and LAN is unlimited
13:01:01 <lbt> we may want to tell them to allocate physically close if we take that route
13:01:12 <phaeron> I gtg
13:01:14 <Stskeeps> cya
13:01:17 <lbt> but I was mainly thinking of a HW spec
13:01:18 <Stskeeps> yes, let's wrap up the meeting
13:01:19 <phaeron> bye
13:01:21 <lbt> bye
13:01:41 <Stskeeps> so yes, img and COBS deployment plan
13:02:00 <Stskeeps> pre fosdem
13:02:32 <lbt> #info prepare IMG deployment plan (and maybe deployment)
13:04:21 <lbt> anything else?
13:04:55 <lbt> I wanted to ask about Mer Groups but that can be in #mer
13:05:09 <Stskeeps> think that's it
13:05:13 <Stskeeps> thank you all for coming
13:05:19 <lbt> ty
13:05:19 <Stskeeps> #endmeeting