16:00:20 #startmeeting MeeGo Community OBS Replacement Meeting 10/07/2012 16:00:20 Meeting started Tue Jul 10 16:00:20 2012 UTC. The chair is vgrade_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 16:00:20 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:35 #info Welcome everyone I have the Agenda at http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00596.html 16:00:40 o/ 16:00:43 hi 16:00:45 #info Last meeting log at http://mer.bfst.de/meetings/mer-meeting/2012/mer-meeting.2012-05-15-15.59.html 16:00:52 Who's here today? 16:00:56 o/ 16:01:01 hi sage, X-Fade 16:01:06 Stskeeps: 16:01:15 hi 16:01:26 lbt \o 16:01:34 hi phaeron 16:02:03 OK then let start. 16:02:10 #topic 1. Mer NFP Status including progress on Donation/Sponsorship Procedures 16:02:10 hmm 16:02:14 jit ? 16:02:19 #info https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Donation_Policy 16:02:45 yes 16:02:47 yep, approved, and http://www.merproject.org/donations.html 16:02:59 good news 16:03:10 and I've had this validated by my accountant (who actually called in a specialist to discuss it) 16:03:24 i'd like to inform that during this week, there will be donation coming from Jolla (as you may have seen as Mer users) for the equivalent of 2 EX-4S'es over 6 months for the purpose of Mer community OBS 16:03:27 #info http://www.merproject.org/donations.html 16:03:30 I do have to prepare a diagram to show cash flows 16:04:07 or, rather, within the next week to be precise 16:04:28 Stskeeps: great news 16:04:37 yeah 16:04:37 EX-4S'es being http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s 16:04:43 #info 'd like to inform that during this week, there will be donation coming from Jolla (as you may have seen as Mer users) for the equivalent of 2 EX-4S'es over 6 months for the purpose of Mer community OBS 16:05:20 so this should help kickstart the work 16:06:29 lbt, do you have a plan for receipting these donations 16:07:11 for companies I'll be invoicing them 16:07:24 nothing specific for individuals 16:07:48 SD69, \o 16:07:49 in terms of accounting the transactions will be made available 16:07:57 hello 16:08:06 SD69: http://mer.bfst.de/meetings/mer-meeting/2012/mer-meeting.2012-07-10-16.00.log.txt to catch up 16:08:07 I think all should get a receipt 16:09:55 vgrade_: how? 16:10:09 I can offer one on demand 16:10:21 ok 16:10:23 certificate for persons, invoice for company? 16:10:26 but donations can come with no notice or information 16:10:31 community pride is important :) 16:10:36 oh, sorry 16:10:38 let me be clear 16:10:57 I can offer a receipt to anyone for any transaction they make 16:11:15 I can't guarantee to Mer that all transactions will be receipted 16:11:32 since it's possible to push money at us essentially anonymously 16:11:53 I've suggested in the blurb that people contact me first 16:11:57 :nod: 16:12:05 companies have to contact me as an invoice is needed 16:12:19 we discussed anonymity a while back at the AB and it's permitted 16:12:37 we have no firm plans to offer "banner" info 16:12:45 I'd like to ... 16:13:03 then I can say "yay, thanks vgrade \o/" a lot more 16:14:24 a receipt would close the loop on the bank transfer, making sure it got to the right account 16:15:15 so lbt to provide a receipt on demand 16:15:26 agreed ... and I should put some more time into the reporting mechanisms 16:15:43 #topic 2. Legal Entity Progress 16:16:33 This is a low priority task to track the Legal issues related to operating a new OBS 16:16:42 No further movement yet 16:16:47 ok 16:16:57 Will entity be a UK entity? 16:17:52 SD69, can you maybe summarize how it's going with hildon foundation as well? 16:18:25 SD69: the current one is but I have no pre-conceived limitations for a final solution 16:18:42 lbt, can you remind us of the timescale we are working on for the shutdown of MeeGo Community OBS? 16:18:56 Hildon Foundation has been sent to the Maemo community list for review and comment 16:19:00 drop dead is 2013 16:19:19 and there has been no sign of anything before that yet 16:19:43 Intel are maintaining it still, security updates, HW fixes 16:19:47 SD69: alright, got a link for mailing list archives? 16:19:58 even moving VMs to more powerful machines 16:21:16 stskeeps: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-July/005552.html 16:21:21 thank you 16:21:26 #link http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-July/005552.html 16:21:48 any common things between the two entities? 16:22:04 to share the work? 16:22:46 there is overlap in purpose between the entities 16:22:56 think it's just good to keep track of eachother for now and see where things develop 16:23:27 cOBS is possibility for sharing work 16:24:44 I was wondering about the legal research, if that could be shared. 16:25:35 For Hildon Foundation, I will recommend the Debian Patent Policy 16:25:48 #info Mer and Hildon Foundation to track legal entity process 16:26:22 I expect they'll sort out legal issues before I do and I'd be happy to track+copy 16:26:34 ok 16:26:52 anything else on this? 16:27:06 I'm happy to share with Mer on, e.g., IPR issues 16:27:49 sorry to interupt, but except name. what can be legal issues? can someone link me to discussion of that? 16:28:04 SD69_: maybe we should plan a scoping/issues brainstorming session 16:28:26 ZogG_laptop: long story short, you may be responsible for patent or copyright infrigement of your users 16:28:29 ZogG_laptop: probably worth checking old logs 16:28:33 ZogG_laptop: there was much discussion on this in previous meetings, sec for link 16:28:39 ZogG_laptop: and we don't want that to happen and take down Mer, for instance 16:29:10 ZogG_laptop: see this thread, http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00413.html 16:29:16 dmca takedowns come thick and fast 16:29:32 Stskeeps, so it's more about content itslef but not the system. ok i think it's enuf info for me. answers the question. though i'll check logs. sorry again 16:29:40 #info SD69_: maybe we should plan a scoping/issues brainstorming session 16:31:37 ZogG_laptop: no probs, ask away, don't say sorry 16:32:10 OK 16:32:18 #action lbt, SD69_ to arrange a scoping/issues brainstorming session RE Mer and Hildon Foundation Legal Entitiy 16:32:38 I need to move on 16:32:39 #topic 3. Feedback on Maemo OBS progress, Harmatten, Freemantle targets 16:33:19 I've not been following this X-Fade whats going on here? 16:33:56 vgrade_: We've been working on getting fremantle apps to build on OBS. This looked rather promising. 16:34:33 We then started to look at Stskeeps' new SB2 on OBS approach. 16:35:10 #info http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_OBS:Meeting_Minutes 16:35:14 Due to the recent news from Nokia, the pace has slowed a bit. 16:36:15 Still dedicated to get this in a workable state, but I need to do this in my spare time unfortunately. 16:36:59 X-Fade, are you doing it alone or have help form community 16:37:39 from* 16:37:45 ZogG_laptop: It is a community project. Now more than ever ;) 16:39:48 Thanks X-Fade 16:39:49 I don't think I have more to add atm. 16:40:04 #topic 4. Any new topics. 16:40:07 X-Fade: how are you doing for resources 16:40:49 lbt: What kind of resources? :) 16:40:55 people mainly 16:41:15 but also do you have any info about host availability? 16:41:43 Had some help from some people from the community. Did some checking with javispedro. 16:41:52 But haven't seen him around in a while. 16:42:04 * Sage_ has topic to talk about but waits for the previous discussion to end. 16:42:26 Sage_: nod 16:42:27 just wondering if you were in a "call for help" mode or "getting on with it" 16:42:43 X-Fade, do you have any topic on TMO or on maillist? i don't have too much time now, but i might have from next week. and i might try to help in what i can. 16:43:12 lbt: It would benefit from a revival. But this one of these, way to many things todo. 16:43:16 ZogG_laptop: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_OBS:Meeting_Minutes 16:43:28 X-Fade: OK 16:43:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85061 - that thread maybe relative to get help from community? i saw some people asking how they can help 16:43:59 there's a big learning curve to be productive too 16:44:08 Sage_: 16:44:09 anyhow... done ... thanks X-Fade 16:44:21 I was contacted by people from Communications Engineering department of Tampere University of Technology, and they asked me to present their idea for the meeting. 16:44:32 The idea is about creating a research project about "distributed hybrid cloud style OBS" and with that provide relatively large amount of build nodes for community OBS usage. Research topics for example security and performance. 16:44:42 This is an initial query that needs improving, but at first they would like to know if the community would be interested of this if they can get such a research project started? They have the resources, networking skills and academic insterest on this, but they are missing the actual use case for the project. 16:45:26 wasn't there a study to implement this mentioned on obs mailing list ? 16:45:27 I'm very interested in the security aspect 16:46:15 Sage_: personally i feel that fits right in with mer mission as well, as well as exciting possibilities 16:46:16 From the community point of view also the free resources aspect is nice. 16:46:18 our main constraint to accepting cpu/build resource and to using generic cloud is security oriented - so if they're looking for solutions,,,, yes, we have use cases 16:46:32 we can even help them do random mer qa builds for tests ;) 16:46:50 Stskeeps: actually that would be even better use case. 16:47:04 http://dspace.cc.tut.fi/dpub/bitstream/handle/123456789/20758/seppanen.pdf?sequence=3 <--- also tampere university 16:47:34 phaeron: it is the same department where this query came from :) 16:47:36 #link http://dspace.cc.tut.fi/dpub/bitstream/handle/123456789/20758/seppanen.pdf?sequence=3 16:48:05 Sage_: sounds like what I was involved in at some point earlier. TTY wanted to do something there but things didn't pan out at that time. 16:48:11 i'd like to propose that we welcome this move and welcome them to join the community, participate as part of it and we can help them with interesting new challenges :) 16:48:11 http://opensuse.14.n6.nabble.com/Elastic-Build-Service-provisioning-workers-flexibly-to-Amazon-EC2-td3397200.html 16:48:19 dm8tbr: yes 16:48:48 so they have previous know how , I guess 16:49:02 phaeron: heh, I supervised that thesis on the Tieto side 16:49:14 they can even independently take mer and use it as a reference set for builds 16:49:18 due to our characteristics 16:49:20 it's a small planet .. :) 16:49:54 Sage_: i can at least volunteer to pitch in an hour once in a while to help them get started 16:50:19 Sage_: me too 16:50:36 ok, so there is definite interest 16:50:51 Stskeeps, lbt : thanks 16:51:05 I'd add a note of caution on using resources as per reasoning from donation policy 16:51:05 me too :) 16:51:36 lbt: yeah, but for example for community OBS, demands may be lower 16:51:49 and even research into how to make it safe is interesting 16:51:54 also for doing QA stuff lower as well? 16:52:01 Sage_: can you take an action to contact them and let them know of the discussions here? 16:52:06 e.g. making images and running tests in distributed network? 16:52:14 yep, just a note of caution, not an objection :) 16:52:18 Sage_: yes, that's also an interesting direction 16:52:36 because QA is something we haven' actually prepared any resources yet 16:52:43 I can think of lots of things to do with more HW! 16:52:45 there's plenty of interesting research topics in OS development still 16:53:04 Mer started out in research, too :) 16:53:08 vgrade_: sure, I'll keep in touch with them and tell that there is interest around the area. 16:53:40 #action Sage_ contact Communications Engineering department of Tampere University of Technology re OBS research project 16:53:41 did you see the solution to the gcc compiler self-modifying/hiding code security problem 16:54:01 #topic AOB 16:54:10 #info Stefan Werden from open-slx has asked "Is there is something we may help additionaly (no donation) please come back." 16:54:16 #info Please reply to mer-general with anything you think open-slx could help with. 16:55:58 hnm 16:56:07 they do OBS support+deployment 16:56:25 wondering if they can do regression testing on Mer vesion of the OBS 16:58:05 lbt, if you feel like swerden can help he has made the offer on mer-general 16:58:22 anything else guys 16:59:05 just made it in the hour, thanks for your participation 16:59:12 #endmeeting