12:03:38 <Stskeeps> #startmeeting Mer QA meeting
12:03:38 <MerBot> Meeting started Thu Aug  9 12:03:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is Stskeeps. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
12:03:38 <MerBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
12:03:48 <Stskeeps> phaeron might jump in to chair at any moment, but i'll get the ball rolling
12:04:03 <Stskeeps> welcome to the Mer QA meeting - if you have any questions or ideas, feel free to butt in at any time
12:04:06 <Stskeeps> #topic Status
12:04:44 <Stskeeps> so who can report of recent news in the QA area in #mer ?
12:05:10 <Stskeeps> we have had prereleases checked by phaeron's VM testing tools with testrunner-ui, qa-reports, etc
12:05:37 <Stskeeps> which was very useful to guide if we could actually release
12:06:39 <sivang> Stskeeps: in terms of wiki docs, I've added https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution#How_can_I_contribute.3F with a clear slant to encourage 'end users' to test Nemo as a test measure for Mer.
12:06:46 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:07:09 <sivang> Stskeeps: the first link that calls for help testing is 'Nemo/Installing' :)
12:07:18 <Stskeeps> we have tools available as well for designing test sets, testplanner for instance
12:07:31 <Stskeeps> and any kind contribution is welcome in order to get some basic test sets off the ground
12:07:37 * sivang recognizes this from the Meego days, should rediscover
12:09:02 <Stskeeps> lbt: any news from your side?
12:09:16 <lbt> yes
12:09:55 <lbt> #info Finally reviewed and promoted Sage's ruby SR to Mer:Tools:Testing and will include it in next Tools release
12:10:11 <Stskeeps> that enables tdriver, etc?
12:10:24 <lbt> yes it does
12:10:58 <Paimen> good
12:11:00 <Stskeeps> there's also a new irc channel it seems, #tdriver
12:11:06 <Stskeeps> for that project
12:11:39 <Paimen> not really popular yet, but few guys that are behind recent qt5 fixing are there
12:12:02 <Stskeeps> :noD:
12:12:14 <Stskeeps> good they are launching as their own project as such, so it's not orphaned
12:12:52 <Paimen> well it is more like having at least some channel where people can discuss, not really yet sure how it will grow from there
12:13:02 <Stskeeps> yes
12:13:14 <Paimen> but anyways it is a start
12:14:18 <Stskeeps> on my side i'm slowing down Mer CI to make a obs upgrade, so we can begin per-change QA
12:17:30 <Stskeeps> right, anything else to discuss?
12:19:38 * lbt will ask about an OBS snapshot/release in #mer
12:20:50 <sivang> Paimen: tdriver is the cuecumber thing?
12:21:09 <Paimen> sivang tdriver can be used with cucumber yes
12:22:16 <phaeron> we need cucumber packaged thouh
12:23:24 <curiosity> hello!
12:23:28 <juriikon> hi! sorry to interrupt, but I just  wanted to inform that I'm partiparting here as a mer and meego newbie... I have previously done release testing mainly with Symbian platform. And now trying to learn about mer project and meego testing & QA side
12:23:33 <juriikon> hi curiosity :)
12:23:56 <Stskeeps> juriikon: sure :) did you use automated tools or what kind of tools did you use?
12:24:14 <juriikon> yes mostly automated testing with nokia internal tools
12:24:23 <juriikon> but also manual testing
12:24:49 <sivang> phaeron: didn't we have one from meego?
12:24:49 <Stskeeps> alright - for background information, http://wiki.meego.com/Quality , http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools , https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Quality is good to walk through
12:24:53 <Stskeeps> and kind of find your niche
12:24:56 <juriikon> I have done both UI level testing and lower level testing
12:25:11 <Stskeeps> juriikon: ever done TDriver and such?
12:25:17 <juriikon> yes I have been reading those pages now few days about
12:25:26 <phaeron> sivang: where is it ?
12:25:32 <sivang> juriikon, curiosity : Mer testing is exciting :)
12:25:36 <juriikon> nope, TDriver isn't familiar to me yet
12:25:43 <curiosity> yes
12:25:43 <Stskeeps> alright
12:26:14 <juriikon> but there was also tool called testrunner when testing with symbian
12:26:27 <Stskeeps> yeah, i think ours is called testrunner-lite, a more lite version, or something
12:26:32 <Paimen> phaeron: I think cucumber could been used with meego, but it just resited on host side, so I'm not aware it has meego packages
12:26:52 <Paimen> but with Mer as you want to use it in SDK that is Mer that needs to be done, but I can be wrong
12:27:21 <Stskeeps> juriikon: so let's say you had to smoke test a core release, like, a base system, how would you go about planning one?
12:28:00 <Paimen> basically for Meego TDriver just assumed that on client agent_qt needs to be present and other parts are on host that is general linux/win/mac platform
12:28:17 <phaeron> Paimen: yeah testrunner-lite has host based testing which sshes to device and runs tests
12:28:27 <juriikon> well I guess there needs to one basic test came from all tested technology areas
12:28:39 <phaeron> we should decide if we need to support both
12:28:42 <juriikon> case
12:29:04 <juriikon> actually I haven't done much planning
12:29:16 <Stskeeps> so most actual testing/running it?
12:29:28 <juriikon> more test execution, error reporting and  and test case asset maintenance etc.
12:29:32 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:29:40 <Paimen> phaeron: well testrunner-lite is good to test platform, but for application testing and to be presise from automated functional testing POV TDriver is good tool
12:29:43 <Stskeeps> juriikon: did you by chance try to install Mer Platform SDK yet?
12:30:07 <Paimen> I'm not sure should it be used as testing tool for Mer as is, but Mer should provide it for vendors
12:30:13 <juriikon> yes I have installed that, but I don't have any device to try executing
12:30:18 <Paimen> but this is my 2 cents
12:30:21 <phaeron> Paimen: testrunner reads test.xml files and executes whatever harness is specified so it can Tdriver
12:30:32 <Stskeeps> juriikon: you can possibly use Nemo's VirtualBox and use it as a 'device'
12:30:32 <phaeron> *use
12:30:34 <juriikon> and I think that emulator requires newer PC which I have now
12:30:47 <Stskeeps> i have a i486 virtual image if you want one, prod me after meeting
12:31:11 <juriikon> ahaa ok :)
12:31:25 <Paimen> ok we might be talking about apples and oranges here
12:31:36 <phaeron> yes
12:31:53 <sivang> juriikon: also, devising a test plan/sets for human smoke testing (as Ubuntu had in the begnning which was very  useful) with the common use cases for and end user release, like Nemo would make sense I think
12:32:01 <phaeron> testrunner-lite reads test.xml (test-definition) runs things and collects results
12:32:32 <sivang> for Mer I'd say it can be much more automatic as it has to provide a set of capabilities to run adaptation on it.
12:33:03 <yunta> (I wouldn't personally go for cucumber)
12:33:06 <Paimen> phaeron: yup, but I was trying to answer to question should mer provide support for both
12:33:18 <Stskeeps> i think we need both host side and target side, simply because of workflow
12:33:29 <phaeron> lol, that question was about host based and device based
12:33:34 <Paimen> grah
12:33:37 <phaeron> yes what Stskeeps is saying
12:33:43 <Paimen> misunderstood, sorry
12:33:46 <sivang> Stskeeps: what's host side / target side here? host-> controller of device, target-> device itself?
12:33:54 <Stskeeps> sivang: host side = SDK, target = device
12:33:58 <Stskeeps> you talk about DUT, device under test
12:34:11 <Paimen> SUT is better term I think
12:34:23 * sivang is a bit confused.
12:34:38 <sivang> why is SDK = host?
12:34:47 <Stskeeps> sivang: because it's the one controlling testing
12:34:56 <Paimen> but well as we need to have Mer SDK that is Mer as host cucumber needs to be packaged for mer
12:35:04 <sivang> ah okay, so the machine initiatin the automated test.
12:35:28 <sivang> and target is both automated and human on device yes?
12:35:38 <sivang> (like using the device itself with its promised set of capabilities)
12:37:29 <Paimen> phaeron: but well Mer could also state that cucumber is not usable from SDK
12:37:48 <Paimen> because you still coud do testing outside SDK with Cucumber if you want to use it
12:38:09 <yunta> let's state that cucumber is generally unusable :D
12:38:27 <sivang> well, we don't have to use cucumber, it had some interesting features last time I checked.
12:38:30 <phaeron> yunta: unfortunately some test assets already need it
12:38:44 * lbt doesn't see a problem packaging cucumer for SDK
12:39:14 <yunta> let's just do it then....
12:39:31 <Stskeeps> :nod:
12:39:45 <sivang> right
12:42:47 <Paimen> task to bugzilla so it is not forgotten?
12:43:06 <Stskeeps> yes
12:46:46 <lbt> make it block MER#407 too
12:53:43 <phaeron> ok so stalled here
12:53:46 <Stskeeps> yep
12:53:49 <Stskeeps> thank you all for coming
12:53:52 <Stskeeps> #endmeeting