15:01:42 <iekku> #startmeeting  SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 16-December @ 15:00 UTC
15:01:42 <Merbot> Meeting started Tue Dec 16 15:01:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is iekku. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
15:01:42 <Merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:02 <iekku> #info Welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting
15:02:44 <iekku> #info Meeting info and agenda: http://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/005398.html
15:03:08 <iekku> #topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info
15:03:55 <iekku> #info Iekku Pylkk�, developer community sailor, having chair hat until cybette comes
15:04:03 <eleroux> #info Eric Le Roux, TJC & Bz admin @ Jolla
15:04:58 <M4rtinK> #info Martin Kolman, community member, modRana developer
15:05:31 <filippz> #info Filip Matijević, community
15:05:42 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, community sailor, sailfishos for everyone (sf on android devices)
15:05:46 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling community
15:05:53 * stephg that was close
15:05:53 <SK_work> #info Lucien Xu, community member, developer / hacker for SFOS
15:06:57 <iekku> (let's continue 17:10 to next topic, didn't notice cybette's postpone)
15:08:40 <harha1> #info Harri Hakulinen, Sailor @ Jolla
15:08:50 <cybette> #info Carol Chen, community chief @ jolla, breathless chair today from running here
15:08:58 <iekku> :)
15:09:02 <iekku> #chair cybette
15:09:02 <Merbot> Current chairs: cybette iekku
15:09:05 <cybette> iekku: thanks for staring the meeting on time!
15:09:26 <iekku> cybette, np :)
15:10:07 <iekku> cybette, do you want to continue?
15:10:18 <cybette> iekku: yeah, i can continue from here, thanks :9
15:10:19 <cybette> :)
15:10:25 <cybette> #topic Status of Sailfish.Pickers and Sailfish.Media qml imports - MartinK on
15:10:38 <cybette> #undo
15:10:38 <Merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x982e710>
15:10:54 <cybette> #topic Status of Sailfish.Pickers and Sailfish.Media qml imports - MartinK on behalf of lukedirtwalker (10 min)
15:11:14 <cybette> are either of them here?
15:11:21 <iekku> M4rtinK, ping
15:11:29 <M4rtinK> I'm here
15:11:40 <cybette> M4rtinK: ok great, please go ahead
15:12:54 <cybette> #info Asking the status of the 2 qml imports, Sailfish.Pickers and Sailfish.Media: will they ever be allowed in harbour? If yes is there a rough Timeframe?
15:13:02 <M4rtinK> so I think that especially  the pickers are very helpful, and should be allowed as a Harbour dependecy
15:13:28 <M4rtinK> also the interface looks pretty simple and clean
15:13:50 <M4rtinK> so I hope it should be easy to add
15:14:13 <M4rtinK> as for the Media import
15:14:35 <M4rtinK> there it looks a bit more chaotic
15:15:11 <cybette> I don't know if we have any Jolla sailors here today who can comment?
15:15:24 <M4rtinK> I kinda got an impression that it is a bit of dumping ground for rather unrelated functionality
15:16:17 <iekku> cybette, working on it
15:16:35 <M4rtinK> so for Media I would propos to maybe first alliw only some more widely used elements until the rest stabilizes
15:17:29 <M4rtinK> for examle I've seen that quite many apps use the volume key access elements
15:18:01 <M4rtinK> so I think  this would be a good candidate for initial inclusion
15:18:31 <M4rtinK> so that would for the introduction from me
15:18:56 <kontio_> so regarding Sailfish.Pickers and Sailfish.Media, I remember that we discussed a long time ago some of the Sailfish.* qml imports, I can't remember if these 2 were part of it. So you can guess on that we didn't plan much on them yet, so no timeframe yet.
15:19:52 <M4rtinK> so what about adding these two to the plans now ? :)
15:19:54 <kontio_> and we also didn't discuss them a few weeks back when we discussed to open up stuff for update 10
15:20:15 <kontio_> yes I will create 2 bugs internally to discuss them
15:20:31 <M4rtinK> thars is why it was proposed for this meeting AFAIK
15:20:52 <cybette> #info not much plans at the moment, and so no timeframe yet
15:20:54 <kontio_> so please if you have things ask for it :) if somebody ask it will hardly come on our radar :)
15:21:01 <cybette> #action kontio to create bus internally to discuss them
15:21:15 <cybette> #undo
15:21:15 <Merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x98b3510>
15:21:18 <kontio_> s/somebody/nobody/ :)
15:21:20 <SK_work> can't we just allow them as "beta" ?
15:21:25 <cybette> #action kontio to create bugs internally to discuss them
15:21:55 <cybette> do we need more time? if not i'm moving on to next topic
15:21:57 <SK_work> and ie: they will not really be developed, as Jolla and sailors develops and use Sailfish.Pickers 1.1 internally ?
15:22:26 <kontio_> SK_work: we discussed that, but would need some changes in store and harbour, and as you might have noticed, changes there need time :(
15:22:39 <SK_work> kontio_: yeah I kno
15:22:56 <SK_work> but that was a way to discharge "maintenance and compatibility burden" from sailors
15:23:13 <cybette> thanks kontio for providing the status and taking an action on this, let's move on
15:23:14 <M4rtinK> well, it is possible to have a fallback in the app if the import is not available
15:23:38 <M4rtinK> btw, slughtly related
15:23:51 <cybette> M4rtinK: still on this topic? we're past time allocated
15:23:57 <M4rtinK> what about the QtPositioning import
15:24:17 <M4rtinK> yep, this last thing, if possible :)
15:24:39 <cybette> M4rtinK: ok go ahead, 2 min
15:24:47 <M4rtinK> it would be at least good to also add it to tracking
15:25:00 <M4rtinK> if it is not yet in
15:25:00 <cybette> (please remember to propose more time for your topics too ;)
15:26:10 <M4rtinK> kontio_ so any comments on the QtPositioning import ? :)
15:26:21 <cybette> #info M4rtinK also asked about QtPositioning import to be added
15:27:07 <M4rtinK> it was discussed las time and the reply was 'we will look into it'
15:27:25 <stephg> sounds like another bump for adding to the internal tracker...
15:27:26 <M4rtinK> so I would like to make sure it is tracked :)
15:28:00 <iekku> it is
15:28:21 <M4rtinK> iekku: thanks! :)
15:28:27 <cybette> thanks iekku, we are way over time for this topic now, next.
15:28:32 <cybette> #topic The availability of the use of Jollas configuration files in other projects - Aleksi Suomalainen (15 min)
15:28:52 <cybette> is aleksis here?
15:28:59 <filippz> Since locusf didn't make it (?) maybe I can step in and see if we can solve this?
15:29:10 <cybette> filippz: please, thanks :)
15:29:28 <filippz> cybette: ok, small intro first...
15:29:42 <filippz> Question arose during our work on nemo. At first there was no vibration notification on shutdown - which turned out to be missing pwroff event in ngfd-settings-basic.
15:29:58 <filippz> On Jolla those ngfd-settings-basic are not being used,  but jolla-common-configurations proprietary package that has (amongst others) ngfd settings
15:30:14 <kontio_> M4rtinK: no updates on QtPositioning...
15:30:20 <filippz> Same thing happened with connman settings and profiled (well profiled has different sound scheme, but should in other respects be almost identical)
15:30:39 <filippz> Discussion lead us to conclusion that "sensible/default settings for each package should be included in the package itself" - which is not the case ATM
15:31:00 <filippz> We could do PRs against those default/unmantained settings packages, but we then copy proprietary files and changes on them are visible to us only with the release of new updates for SFOS
15:31:21 <filippz> Is there a reasons for jolla-common-configurations package instead of mantaining "default" settings packages for settings that are not jolla (as a device) specific?
15:32:36 <M4rtinK> kontion_: Ouch! :P But thanks for the info! :-)
15:32:48 <phaeron> it is a configuration management issue, what is correct for one device is not correct for others
15:33:17 <phaeron> and allows for other users of mer to have their own configuration packages instead of forcing stuff
15:33:28 <M4rtinK> kontio_: And please do something about it, if possible. ;-)
15:34:02 <phaeron> that being said if you find something that looks like a sane default and is not a differentiation point, no one will disagree to putting it into the defaults package
15:34:16 <phaeron> so the usual, pull request , discuss , get accepted
15:34:33 <filippz> phaeron: problem is that at the moment those settings have no use on any device - for example dsme calls for pwroff event on all devices - why not include in defaults
15:35:20 <cybette> #info Working on nemo brought up the observation that default settings for each package which could be included in the package itself are not handled this way at the moment. Question of why there's jolla-common-configuartions package instead of maintaining default settings packages for non-Jolla/device specific cases
15:35:21 <filippz> phaeron: OK, then using those files in nemo is acceptable. Can we expect that sailors update them also?
15:36:15 <phaeron> filippz: once a setting has moved to the default settings file they will always be changed there. it might depend on how flexible the piece of software is , so in some cases it might not be possible
15:36:19 <stephg> ^^ or open where possible? I mean the nemo sfos overlap is obviously large
15:37:41 <phaeron> filippz: you need to go through the PR mechanism of course to discuss if it is ok to move them
15:38:05 <phaeron> just repackaging the files is not OK imho as it breaks the vendor neutral model
15:38:37 <phaeron> (just repackaging the stuff into default I mean)
15:39:50 <filippz> phaeron: OK I understand, but it seems that there are many case where setting is not device specific but software specific - for example connman needs some config lines to bring wlan up, but in older versions it worked as is
15:40:10 <cybette> 4 more min
15:40:29 <phaeron> filippz: sure in those cases it makes sense to have the default correct
15:40:56 <filippz> moving onto newer version and leaving old config breaks already established way of work
15:41:24 <filippz> In such cases updating config files should be done (IMHO)
15:41:52 <phaeron> I already agreed that default files should be correct for non differentiation configs
15:43:15 <filippz> ^OK, for now we'll make PR's where we can, and I hope that sailors can keep those defaults updated where it is sensible to do so
15:44:00 <cybette> #info < filippz> ^OK, for now we'll make PR's where we can, and I hope that sailors can keep those defaults updated where it is sensible to do so
15:44:02 <sledges> if that file is removed from jolla-common-configurations package, sailors will adjust the one upstream
15:44:15 <sledges> if that's doable
15:44:49 <phaeron> yep hopefully the software can handle multiple files overriding configs :)
15:45:22 <sledges> my thoughts exactly
15:45:32 <cybette> thanks filippz, phaeron and sledges for this discussion.
15:45:41 <cybette> #topic General discussions - everyone (10 min)
15:46:27 <cybette> we have a request from Jolla sailors to move these meetings up an hour (i.e. 14:00 UTC) so more sailors can participate
15:46:55 <cybette> comments?
15:47:27 <eleroux> cybette: or later :) The point is to keep prior practice of alternating
15:47:57 * stephg thinks the meeting time will be a perennial topic for discussion
15:48:04 <cybette> indeed :-/
15:48:07 <eleroux> :)
15:48:30 <cybette> anyway I don't think we should make the decision in this meeting, there's too few of us present
15:48:40 <stephg> +1, probably
15:48:57 <iekku> +1
15:49:54 <cybette> perhaps we can have a vote on TJC, but let's do that at the start of next year. I think people are starting to go on holidays now/very soon
15:49:54 <eleroux> we should poll on tjc then and see what is the actual feedback on this?
15:50:01 <eleroux> :)
15:50:07 <cybette> yep :)
15:50:21 <iekku> like we do every time :)
15:50:27 <eleroux> cybette: I can take the action
15:50:46 <stephg> another thing, unrelated, SK_work locusf (who's not here) tbr or other nemo folks:
15:51:01 <stephg> I have all of this source now and know broadly where things come from, what should I be doing with it
15:51:21 <cybette> #action eleroux to create a poll for community meeting time on TJC (start of next year)
15:51:26 <stephg> ^^ that is the feeds from git.merproject.org and the github nemomobile things
15:51:31 <SK_work> stephg: good
15:51:35 <SK_work> send the stuff to me
15:51:38 <stephg> what's useful, what's searchable, what should do
15:51:38 <eleroux> cybette: thanks
15:51:50 <SK_work> stephg: let's move to #sailfishos ?
15:51:54 <iekku> I have one request too..
15:52:08 <stephg> SK_work sure, k
15:52:11 <cybette> iekku: please go ahead :)
15:53:07 <iekku> Several community members have asked how they could help. Some aren't able to code so looking for some other stuff. This might be answer for him/her: Community member needed to help with Browser: to write Browser bugs down from TJC to https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-browser/issues
15:53:37 * iekku volunteers to help with how to make a report
15:53:55 <cybette> #info One way of helping, Community member  needed to help with Browser: to write Browser bugs down from TJC to https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-browser/issues
15:54:14 <cybette> #info If you need help on how to make a report, ping iekku
15:55:15 <eleroux> iekku: you probably want to use our template, it will help harmonize
15:55:32 <cybette> iekku: maybe good to share this info on e.g. JPF and other forums? (both dev and non-dev)
15:56:09 <iekku> cybette, i will do that
15:56:28 <iekku> eleroux, that or simpilified but similar
15:56:53 <cybette> great :)
15:56:56 <cybette> let's wrap up
15:57:09 <iekku> almost managed to not typo something today..
15:57:11 <iekku> :)
15:57:14 <cybette> #topic Wrap up and next meeting (5 min)
15:57:32 <cybette> iekku: i already made several typos (and several #undos)
15:57:50 <iekku> cybette <3
15:57:55 <cybette> I think next meeting will be in 2015 ... :)
15:58:31 <iekku> +1 there's many sailors on vacation 30th and i assume so are community members too
15:58:36 <iekku> travelling etc
15:58:42 <cybette> Does Jan-6 sound ok, or do you need more time to recover from the Xmas/New year hangover?
15:58:52 <sledges> sgtm
15:59:04 <stephg> ditto
15:59:09 <iekku> cybette, 6th is bank holiday in FI
15:59:15 <sledges> not 5th?
15:59:31 <cybette> 5th is monday, 6th is tuesday
15:59:57 <sledges> true:)
16:00:47 <cybette> bank holiday hmm... is 13th iteration day? I'd prefer not to push this too far back
16:01:21 <sledges> 7th ?
16:01:31 <iekku> Epiphany (6th of January)
16:01:39 <cybette> maybe we have exception this time and make it 7th as sledges proposed?
16:01:42 <iekku> hmm, unlike day :)
16:01:44 <iekku> why not
16:02:02 <cybette> any objections from those present today?
16:02:10 <stephg> 6th is ephiphany? good to know
16:02:25 <sledges> if we reach:)
16:03:02 <cybette> last call for objections
16:03:22 <iekku> +1 for 7th
16:03:30 <eleroux> same
16:03:41 <stephg> not the week after
16:03:49 <stephg> (otherwise don't care)
16:03:59 <cybette> #info Next meeting Wed 7-Jan-2015 @15:00 UTC, Chairperson cybette (unless someone else volunteers)
16:04:30 <cybette> ok, thank you all for being at this meeting, every attendence is much appreciated!
16:04:35 <cybette> cheers, till next time
16:04:40 <iekku> if nothing catastrofical happens i can chair
16:04:41 <cybette> #endmeeting