15:00:03 <cybette> #startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 24-March @ 15:00 UTC
15:00:03 <merbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 24 15:00:03 2015 UTC.  The chair is cybette. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
15:00:03 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:09 <cybette> #info Welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting
15:00:21 <cybette> #info Meeting info and agenda: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-March/005879.html
15:00:33 <cybette> I'm the meeting chair for today and will be keeping time and order. Please behave and show mutual respect, and let's have a productive discussion!
15:00:37 <cybette> #topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info
15:00:39 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, sailor in #sailfishos-porters and community translations (pootle)
15:01:00 <cybette> #info Carol Chen, Community chef at Jolla, hatless meeting chair today
15:01:19 <iekku> #info Iekku Pylkk�, Developer Community sailor at Jolla
15:01:19 <situ> #info Siteshwar, community
15:01:44 <silver_hook> #info Matija Šuklje, community member (& FSFE Legal Coordinator)
15:01:55 <M4rtinK_jolla_> #info Martin Kolman, community member & modRana developer
15:02:11 <vmaatta> #info Ville Määttä, hacking and developing @ Ruriat, member: EFFI, FSF, FSFE
15:02:15 <giucam> #info Giulio Camuffo, developer at Jolla
15:02:21 <otsaloma> #info Osmo Salomaa, app developer
15:02:28 <daitheflu> #info François Kubler, community member & developer
15:02:29 <Wnt> #info Jonni Nakari, community member, app developer
15:02:33 <pvuorela> #info Pekka Vuorela, developer at Jolla
15:02:39 <SfietKonstantinW> #info Lucien Xu, community member, app dev
15:02:55 <Jaakko> #info Jaakko Roppola, designer at Jolla
15:02:56 <chem|st> #info Rüdiger Schiller, community rep, tjc mod
15:04:16 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, tohs et al.
15:04:30 <cybette> intros please (1 more min), prefix with #info
15:04:37 <Jare> #info Jarkko Lehtoranta, developer at Jolla
15:05:00 <Morpog_work> #info Morpog, community member
15:05:43 <cybette> glad to see all of you here! let's dive into the topics
15:05:52 <cybette> #topic Centralised translation server/service for Mer/Nemo/Sailfish/apps - silver_hook or M4rtinK (20 min)
15:05:57 <cybette> #info Currently pretty much every project and app handles translations by itself – spanning several servers/services and in some cases still managed manually.
15:06:04 <cybette> #info It would be a lot more effective if there was a central point for translations for all the Mer/Nemo/Sailfish and all their apps.
15:06:10 <cybette> #info Apart from lowering the entrance bar for new translators and having a better overview of projects and their translations, this would likely trigger a network effect that people who are translating project A, might also take on projects B and C, because they’re already there.
15:06:29 <cybette> silver_hook: welcome to the meeting and the stage is yours :)
15:06:42 <silver_hook> cybette: Thanks.
15:07:36 <silver_hook> Well, that’s basically it. I just noticed while translating an app that there is no central place for Jolla/Sailfish/Nemo/Mer/… translations and though it wierd.
15:08:24 <Morpog_work> I thought Jolla got something for that in the work already since alot of time?
15:08:27 <silver_hook> After mentioning this to some people, some rumours popped up that something might be in the work in that regard, so I was volunteered to raise this issue at the next meeting.
15:08:56 <Taaeem> I think many devs use transifex.com
15:09:05 <ApBBB> There is a tool for translating SFOS comming soon (no eta given) but no idea if it can also include 3rd party apps
15:09:22 <SfietKonstantinW> could fit in the Mer infra
15:09:28 <SfietKonstantinW> if lbt can manage it
15:09:30 <silver_hook> Since different apps started using different services (or nothing at all) for handling community translations, I thought that it’s high time this gets solved.
15:10:21 <sledges> there have been bigger picture efforts  to translate the whole sailfishos
15:10:35 <sledges> by community developers, like Slovak translation
15:10:46 <ApBBB> TBH i don't see it as a big problem to have every app handle translations by itself but i have an aversion for translated software.
15:10:56 * lbt gets back
15:11:04 <iekku> might be worth of taking look if we could use that as 3d party tool too
15:11:22 <iekku> sledges, ^
15:11:37 <lbt> I'm sure mer infra could support it, yes
15:12:10 <mal-> #info Matti Lehtimäki, random porter
15:12:20 <SfietKonstantinW> could be nice to use the same translation tool as in Jolla
15:12:25 <SfietKonstantinW> maybe it can ease maintenance ?
15:12:27 <sledges> this is part of our developer programme to welcome community's effort to contribute to sailfishos translations, including new languages
15:12:49 <SfietKonstantinW> sledges: however the infra is not yet present :(
15:12:53 <sledges> the service is wip, and will most likely use mer obs
15:12:58 <SfietKonstantinW> ok
15:13:04 <kimmoli> nice
15:13:08 <ApBBB> sledges: ETA on it?
15:13:11 <sledges> no eta
15:13:12 <silver_hook> From my experience (as a translator) it would make sense to have a central translations service/system/whatever/… because having it all in one repo, once you finish translating package A, you’re still in the zone and just choose some random package X as well, since you’re already at it.
15:13:14 <SfietKonstantinW> so if this service could also be used for 3rd parties, could be nice
15:13:22 <sledges> nothing prevents adding new projects for apps to it
15:13:28 <SfietKonstantinW> silver_hook: +1
15:13:40 <silver_hook> Proof of concept: see KDE
15:13:42 <vmaatta> is this really something that Mer/Nemo/Sailfish should think much about .. or am I missing something; QT Translations APIs in 5.4
15:14:40 <silver_hook> Also the local translations teams (e.g. LUGOS-Slo in Slovenia) when organising translation sprints see the same effect – once you e.g. finish your KDE translations, you help out with GNOME or LO.
15:14:43 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen, community member & developer
15:16:13 <jackdaniel> #info Daniel Kochmański, porter
15:16:14 <silver_hook> sledges, lbt: is there an ETA when we can learn more about it?
15:16:19 <cybette> #info Jolla is working on translation service (WIP, no ETA) that allows communtiy translation contributions. Should be feasible to use it for adding new projects (for 3rd party apps) to it.
15:16:47 <sledges> e.g. sailfish-browser (along with other opensource components) is already translated within internal translation service, and could benefit immediately once public service goes live
15:16:56 <sledges> *and nemo/mer could benefit immediately
15:17:33 <M4rtinK_jolla_> at least Fedora has its own instance on Zanata ( and previously had on Transifex) and most other distros have something similar
15:17:40 <M4rtinK_jolla_> and it works well
15:18:11 <sledges> pootle is of the choosing
15:18:30 <sledges> ideas welcome how to nicely migrate slovak translation from transifex to pootle
15:18:30 <silver_hook> There’s also Pootle and Weblate
15:18:32 <iekku> silver_hook, no ETAs but we will share more info as soon as it's possible
15:18:40 <M4rtinK_jolla_> I think any sane tool will do
15:18:42 <silver_hook> iekku: That would be awesome :)
15:18:52 <silver_hook> M4rtinK_jolla_: +1 on any sane tool, as long as there is one
15:18:59 <silver_hook> (preferably *one*)
15:19:12 <M4rtinK_jolla_> one suggestion: allow anonymous pull
15:19:14 <iekku> we are using pootle internally, so it makes sense to use it as a community tool
15:19:32 <M4rtinK_jolla_> transifex lacks this which really sux
15:19:49 <sledges> M4rtinK_jolla_: could you elaborate?
15:19:54 <vmaatta> Pootle seems to support QT TS format
15:19:54 <cybette> #info Tool of choice is Pootle, and ideas welcome for migrating Slovak translations from transifex to pootle
15:20:09 <cybette> 5 more min
15:20:24 <M4rtinK_jolla_> if you have translation cintent pulls in your build scripts
15:20:49 <M4rtinK_jolla_> it forces people to register to the service
15:20:53 <sledges> m4	that's where obs comes in
15:20:57 <sledges> M4rtinK_jolla_: ^
15:21:15 <sledges> unless you mean cross-platform aspect
15:21:49 <M4rtinK_jolla_> people might be building locally
15:21:51 <sledges> which is a bit too broad for initial deployment
15:22:46 <M4rtinK_jolla_> its just a suggestion based on personal experience with transifex
15:22:59 <sledges> thanks for early feedback!
15:23:47 <cybette> 2 more min, last questions/comments on this topic?
15:23:56 <M4rtinK_jolla_> but might be more important if third party Sailfish apps start using the service
15:24:09 <M4rtinK_jolla_> thats all from me :)
15:24:55 <silver_hook> I’m done as well :)
15:25:03 <vmaatta> keep in mind that QT should provide the APIs and anyone can choose their service :)
15:25:16 <sledges> we're at Qt 5.2..
15:25:16 <cybette> silver_hook, M4rtinK_jolla_: thanks for proposing the topic and early feedback. we hope to share more info about Pootle soon :)
15:25:17 <vmaatta> from 5.4 that is
15:25:21 <cybette> ok moving onö
15:25:33 <cybette> #topic Q/A and open discussion on Sailfish OS 2.0 design - SfietKonstantinW or chemist (30 min)
15:25:42 <cybette> #info Requesting small QA session with some people from the design team, to share about the new design that was shown at MWC for Sailfish 2.0.
15:25:44 <silver_hook> Ideally, I’d like to pull the whole translations repo and tranlate locally and push it up.
15:25:47 <silver_hook> (whoops)
15:26:01 <cybette> #info Goal is to have constructive criticism, and some explaination from design, no design by commitee.
15:26:33 <cybette> SfietKonstantinW: I won't copy all the questions here, please ask them one at a time and hopefully we'll have someone ready to respond :)
15:26:37 <SfietKonstantinW> yep
15:26:42 <SfietKonstantinW> just opened the list of questions
15:26:50 <Jaakko> let's do this :)
15:26:58 <SfietKonstantinW> :)
15:27:19 <iekku> :D
15:27:26 <SfietKonstantinW> So first question, a bit like an introduction: what motivated the change of design ?
15:27:46 <SfietKonstantinW> For some people, Sailfish OS 1.0 design was very bold
15:27:51 <SfietKonstantinW> and interesting
15:28:16 <SfietKonstantinW> what was shown with 2.0 is more a back to "known stuff", like the 3-panel, harmattan like homescreen, and status bar
15:28:18 <ApBBB> It had/has its quirks though.
15:28:43 <Jaakko> sure, we got feedback that sfos 1.0 was complex, and that had to be simplified and made more consistent.
15:28:59 <SfietKonstantinW> (agreed for the consistency)
15:29:40 <Jaakko> basically the whole homescreen was the pain point
15:29:49 <SfietKonstantinW> ok, interesting
15:29:53 <sledges> i agree for simplification too, for newcomers from other mobile OSs PoV
15:30:00 <SfietKonstantinW> mind to develop what were the exact pain points ?
15:30:06 <Jaakko> and lock screen separation and reduction of different  views was requested
15:30:23 <ApBBB> My question is if some of the new features will be configurable. Ie hide the status bar/activate it with a peak. Or if i can have the favorite apps shown on the home screen
15:30:53 <Jaakko> lack of feedback basically
15:30:55 <Jaakko> :)
15:31:03 <SfietKonstantinW> agreed that a lockscreen should not be present in the homescreen
15:31:12 <SfietKonstantinW> however, it had this nice feature of behaving like a status bar
15:31:36 <SfietKonstantinW> the big clock (for example) was something I liked a lot, as you can see time clearly when pushing app away
15:31:49 <Jaakko> the system status was seamless part of the homescreen, yes
15:31:57 <SfietKonstantinW> now it has been replaced by a small status bar, that's a bit of a regression :)
15:32:01 <Morpog_work> ApBBB why wuld you want to hide the status bar if there is no gain in it? It doesn't seem that it will be shown on apps.
15:32:23 <chem|st> Morpog_work: have a fav-bar instead
15:32:34 <Morpog_work> such small?
15:32:46 <chem|st> no the way it is with 1.x
15:32:57 <ApBBB> Morpog_work: i hate clutter and i don't like things that i don't need all the time to be shown all the time.
15:33:46 <kimmoli> -1 for changing design for other OS users...
15:34:05 <situ> Jaakko: I don't like that swipe cover actions were changed to buttons.
15:34:17 <SfietKonstantinW> just to support ApBBB's sentence of clutter, remember Slush13 (?) where the design team @ Jolla said they tried to remove clutter, thus removing the status bar
15:34:19 <Jaakko> sfos 1.0 design was to minimize complexity (excluding the lockscreen mistake) so that OS development could be done as fast as possible, so that certain baseline of features would be reached faster.
15:34:36 <Morpog_work> but you all have to agree that the lock screen was useless and annoying on sfos 1.0, all it was good for was peeking the status bar infos
15:34:47 <Jaakko> now, some of that has become irrelevant over the sfos 2.0
15:35:06 <Jaakko> in other words, it doesn't rate high in "now that's really cool, please tell me more" :)
15:35:16 <ApBBB> Also one more thing. Will the gestures be configurable?? Ie i'd like to have Rswipe minimize and Lswipe close so i can have TopSwipe lock the phone.
15:35:36 <Jaakko> Morpog_work: yeah, the lock screen separation was planned a long time ago, way before sfos 2.0 designs
15:35:46 <Jaakko> to make it more usable, and extendable
15:36:54 <Jaakko> but also, please remember I'm not doing the design alone
15:37:47 <Jaakko> there's a team of designers led by Martin Schuele (who some of you talked at MWC)
15:37:48 <ApBBB> BUt it seems like the design was influenced by people with an iOS/android philosophy
15:38:24 <cybette> Note: please remember this is Q&A to get some clarity on why certain design decisions are made. let's not make it into "I want this, I pefer that." We can use TJC for that (where the feedback behind some of the decisions came from :) )
15:38:34 <Morpog_work> ApBBB: nah, it feels like it's influenced by harmattan
15:38:37 <Jaakko> ApBBB: yes, it has a bit of those characteristics
15:38:59 <iekku> cybette, +1
15:39:21 <Jaakko> all major OSses resemble more or less the desktop paradigm that was born 40 years ago :D
15:39:23 <sledges> it's best of all worlds, so we don't restrict our target audience to only those coming from gesture based UXs
15:39:48 <ApBBB> cybette: the design team doesn;t have much presence in tjc so we can discuss stuff. Even though i believe they read
15:41:01 <Jaakko> I apologize for not being there anymore. I really tried, but got tired at some point.
15:41:09 <Jaakko> in TJC I mean
15:41:18 <cybette> ApBBB: yes they do read and consider the feedback and comments even if they may not have time to respond
15:41:24 <chem|st> for what reason are pulls (inside) and swipes (outside) made the same and sacrifice cover-actions?
15:41:51 <ApBBB> sledges: I somehow disagree. to dumb down stuff instead of making them cool so more people will want to learn seems wrong to me
15:42:05 <sledges> ApBBB: it's iterative process
15:42:18 <Morpog_work> chem|st: care to explain where that happens?
15:42:19 <sledges> where's a fine line
15:42:26 <chem|st> SfietKonstantinW: you better take over asking again, this gets into discussion alot
15:42:29 <Jaakko> chem|st: there was a user study where cover actions were tested, but they didn't rate high
15:42:30 <daitheflu> it might be off-topic, but can you share how/where did you get feedback that leads to these decisions ?
15:42:45 <chem|st> Morpog_work: home-screen pulls left/right/bottom are the same as swipes
15:42:46 <cybette> SfietKonstantinW: please continue with the questions!
15:42:59 <SfietKonstantinW> Well, we can talk about cover actions
15:43:04 <SfietKonstantinW> I had 2 questions in the list
15:43:12 <M4rtinK_jolla_> I can say I don't really mind Harmattan 2.0, but I would also not like to loose some nice Sailfish inventions
15:43:13 <chem|st> Jaakko: Jolla users or android/ios users?
15:43:33 <M4rtinK_jolla_> like easy notification screen access and cover actions
15:43:43 <SfietKonstantinW> 1. the "swipe" for cover action was not the most practical option, but it prevent misclicking. It might not be the case anymore with "clickable actions"
15:43:47 <Jaakko> chem|st: a local study done at Tampere and Helsinki IIRC
15:43:48 <vmaatta> Jaakko: design by user study = design by committee IMHO
15:44:11 <SfietKonstantinW> 2. on a bigger screen, it might make sense to have even richer cover actions (multiple buttons, search field, reply to text message on cover ?)
15:44:31 <SfietKonstantinW> will Jolla profit from this form factor to provide an interesting experience ?
15:44:40 <kimmoli> widgets?
15:44:47 <SfietKonstantinW> vmaatta: you need user to validate design
15:44:56 <cybette> chem|st: there were both Jolla and non-Jolla users
15:45:01 <SfietKonstantinW> kimmoli: the live covers already behave like "widgets" (like clock etc.)
15:45:10 <SfietKonstantinW> I'm thinking about something between a widget and a dialog
15:45:28 <cybette> vmaatta: it was not design by user study, the study was to see how people respond to the (new) designs
15:45:29 <vmaatta> SfietKonstantinW: yeah sure :)
15:45:34 <Jaakko> vmaatta: it was a short study, but I don't have details on how it actually went
15:45:41 <cybette> (sorry I had to put my Jolla hat back on for a bit)
15:45:41 <alterego> SfietKonstantinW: reply to what text message exactly? :)
15:45:52 <M4rtinK_jolla_> community-partner screen hosting widgets ? :)
15:46:30 <cybette> 10 more min
15:46:38 <SfietKonstantinW> alterego: maybe SMSes ?
15:46:57 <SfietKonstantinW> alterego: for example, on FB on Android you can reply to FB messages from the homescreen
15:47:22 <M4rtinK_jolla_> oh, right - same thing in Gnome Shell
15:47:40 <alterego> SfietKonstantinW: just doesn't make sense to me, using a cover action to reply to what, exact message? The most recent? Just seems like that could suffer horribleuser experience if you're chatting a lot.
15:47:40 <Taaeem> SfietKonstantinW: I don't think that would be really useful
15:48:03 <M4rtinK_jolla_> you can also click on links in message notifications withou opening the messaging app
15:48:05 <Taaeem> Btw I like the new Sailfish OS 2.0 design
15:48:22 <SfietKonstantinW> alterego: more recent
15:48:28 <cybette> daitheflu: many places, including TJC, polls from some of the community blogs, emails, tweets, comments on FB and other channels
15:48:29 <alterego> Oh, you're talking about notifications.
15:48:30 <Jaakko> the problem with android homescreens and the myriad of widgets, that it would take couple of years to just make those widgets so that everyone would be happy :)
15:48:50 <Jaakko> without any extra feature work
15:49:03 <SfietKonstantinW> no widgets plz :)
15:49:41 <chem|st> if you add a desktop please include a mouse in the box... cause that is what people are used to...
15:49:47 <SfietKonstantinW> :D
15:49:48 <Jaakko> :D
15:49:52 <ApBBB> +1 on no widgets
15:50:37 <cybette> 5 more min
15:50:41 <ApBBB> but could at least get an answer on the configurability of some of the features?
15:50:51 <vmaatta> I can't stand touch on desktop / laptop form factor :)
15:50:53 <Morpog_work> There really needs a fast way to close apps if we loose the ability to close via swipe down. Idea 1, replace the lockscreen button when swiping down with an close app button. Idea 2, add a button next to lock screen to close the app. Idea 3 let us close apps by swiping that multitasking card up or down (like webos).
15:50:54 <chem|st> covers are widgets if done right, and they are widget enough for people that need widgets... music widgets have buttons to control the music... we have cover-pulls... back to buttons
15:50:59 <Taaeem> +1 on reply from notifications for some apps
15:51:12 <M4rtinK_jolla_> ApBBB: +1
15:51:14 <chem|st> why do gestures get removed instead of added?
15:51:39 <iekku> Morpog_work, might be good idea to add that to tjc?
15:51:46 <SfietKonstantinW> chem|st: +1 for covers = widgets
15:51:51 <alterego> chem|st: it was explained, it's to simplify the experience to lower the bar for new users.
15:52:06 <kimmoli> yes, if user survey was that cover actions as swipes are not usefull, survey was made on wrong peoole
15:52:09 <Morpog_work> iekku: will do
15:52:20 <Jaakko> there will most likely be configurability on edge swipes, since the default behavior has been made so simple
15:52:34 <M4rtinK_jolla_> == dumbing down to least common denominator ? ;-)
15:53:00 <alterego> M4rtinK_jolla_: something like that. And from the feedback from people at MWC, it worked.
15:53:01 <Jaakko> the demo software  (MWC videos) was not intended to show daily use, but impress bored people :)
15:53:05 <chem|st> alterego: a same answer different question...
15:53:06 <ApBBB> Jaakko: THANK YOU :D
15:53:10 <Jaakko> :)
15:53:14 <Morpog_work> Well, the dumbing down made reviews of sfos 2.0 alot better for first time user it seems. Just compare videos of MWC 2014 and 2015
15:53:18 <vmaatta> +1 for not removing something just because some don't get it... they should be for 'not-required' stuff.. but be there
15:53:26 <alterego> Morpog_work: exactly! :)
15:53:26 <iekku> Morpog_work, there's at least this: https://together.jolla.com/question/1916/suggestion-new-gesture-to-close-app-made-relevant-again-by-sfos-20-ui-changes/
15:53:45 <cybette> 2 more min, let's wrap up
15:54:00 <SfietKonstantinW> please just promise not to abandon power-usage of Jolla UI
15:54:11 <kimmoli> i don't like ... changes...
15:54:13 <SfietKonstantinW> you made it efficient, removing clutter etc with SFOS1
15:54:19 <M4rtinK_jolla_> +1
15:54:22 <chem|st> Morpog_work: not true, the Jolla1 videos showed people unable to use "swipes" even fanboys had problems, now they all seemed familiar with the idea of gestures
15:54:27 <SfietKonstantinW> don't regress on SFOS2
15:54:30 <cybette> #info Lots of good questions and discussions about Sailfish OS 2.0 design, please read full logs for details
15:54:34 <ApBBB> kimmoli: change is constant :P
15:55:02 <kimmoli> ApBBB: i know, but it is the direction that matters
15:55:20 <alterego> Obviously we want to keep evolving the experiences until as many people as possible are happy :)
15:55:24 <cybette> on the topic of change, it's time to change topic
15:55:34 <Jaakko> we'll forward these comments to Martin and the rest of the team :)
15:55:40 <chem|st> we will see what is coming our way... I will set tjc on fire then...
15:55:47 <M4rtinK_jolla_> big 'do stuff' button :)
15:55:49 <cybette> #topic Keyboard layouts missing from the phone - ApB (15 min)
15:55:51 <ApBBB> kimmoli: even if the direction is wrong it will get fixed at some point. Thats how evolution works.
15:55:53 <kimmoli> if the direction is "yet another android" this will ...
15:55:56 <SfietKonstantinW> thanks Jaakko
15:56:11 <cybette> #info There are keyboard layouts missing and people have to use unofficial ones. Also jolla hasn't done anything to include those community layouts in the OS as a community contribution or at least in the store.
15:56:32 <kimmoli> virtual keyboard layouts....
15:56:46 <ApBBB> OK. The question is simple. When if jolla is planing to solve that.
15:57:09 <ApBBB> It is important IMO.
15:57:20 <pvuorela> two problems with custom layouts: api stability and security.
15:58:08 <pvuorela> now with split keyboard mode the api has already changed a bit. could be the biggest change, but cannot be sure more isn't needed.
15:58:17 <ApBBB> If we leave custom stuff outside what is the status of missing stuff
15:58:29 <pvuorela> missing stuff being what?
15:58:34 <ApBBB> greek is missing
15:58:45 <ApBBB> ok small percentage of people but still.
15:59:03 <ApBBB> and there were some more if i remember the TJC threads
15:59:07 <pvuorela> greek could be something to consider.
15:59:24 <pvuorela> like just implementing internally.
15:59:44 <ApBBB> any eta. I need it (greel) :P
15:59:48 <ApBBB> k
16:00:28 <cybette> #info Two problems with custom keyboard layouts: API stability (e.g. changed with split keyboard mode) and Security
16:00:59 <M4rtinK_jolla_> same thing fo czech keyboard
16:01:22 <Morpog_work> also an official emoji keyboard would be great
16:01:23 <pvuorela> ApBBB: better not make promises. tjc item i found has 18 votes, so even if important to you, a bit on the marginal side on total.
16:01:30 <M4rtinK_jolla_> as for security - the current method of distribution is also not very secure :)
16:01:55 <pvuorela> Morpog_work: need better emoji support in general before making keyboard layout. problems acknowledged there, though.
16:02:20 <mal-> close to the topic, the should be a selection in settings for virtual keyboard layouts, when the support for hw keyboard will be finished
16:02:55 <kimmoli> mal-: ?
16:02:59 <Morpog_work> mal-: there is already, or do It get you wrong?
16:02:59 <mal-> I'm porting sailfish for a device with hw keyboard and that would be practical
16:03:18 <hieutrinh> hello
16:03:25 <pvuorela> mal-: there should be layout setting for hw keyboards too.
16:03:54 <kimmoli> pvuorela: and api to change it
16:04:07 <pvuorela> kimmoli: yeah.
16:04:47 <hieutrinh> there are no tutorial for developer
16:04:51 <ApBBB> i know the amount of people is small but greece is one of the countries someone can buy your phone. I don't expect jolla to translate the full os for everyone but at least a keyboard for every country that someone can buy the phone is expected in a way :/
16:05:21 <cybette> hieutrinh: what kind of tutorial are you looking for? btw we are in the middle of a meting
16:05:24 <cybette> *meeting
16:05:27 <ApBBB> There is even one already made by the community that you might be able to copy include.
16:05:52 <cybette> 5 more min
16:05:56 <mal-> it does show the hw keyboard there but only so that you can select it to be active or not, no language, maybe I just have to figure out how to define the language and layout for that
16:06:25 <pvuorela> ApBBB: for legal reason better not just copy stuff :/
16:06:42 <Morpog_work> mal-: I guess the TOHKBD developers could be good hint givers for you
16:06:53 <M4rtinK_jolla_> including more keyboards should really not be that hard
16:06:54 <ApBBB> pvuorela: yes i understand. I don't remember the lisence of it.
16:06:55 <pvuorela> mal-: support for hw keyboard layouts is not there yet.
16:07:04 <kimmoli> there is no way to change hw layout in sailfish
16:07:23 <mal-> that was the problem I was talking about
16:08:08 <pvuorela> mal-: it'll come.
16:08:17 <mal-> ok, I'll have to wait then
16:08:25 <kimmoli> mal-: we did discuss that on previous meeting, i had some actions also...
16:08:41 <kimmoli> mal-: but no progress. been busy with 1k of other things
16:09:21 <cybette> kimmoli: was it this meeting http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2015/mer-meeting.2015-02-17-15.00.html
16:09:47 <mal-> kimmoli: sure, if there is something a can do please let me know
16:10:10 <kimmoli> cybette: y
16:10:23 <pvuorela> kimmoli: i started looking into changing layout on bt keyboard, but bumped into qtwayland still not having proper support. for wl_keyboard yes, but there's some custom key protocol too according to giulio.
16:10:48 <ApBBB> pvuorela: can you open an internal but on the Kb missing so it is visible to the person that handles that sruff??
16:10:48 <cybette> ApBBB, mal-: let's continue this discussion on irc and TJC etc. thanks for bringing up the topic.
16:11:00 <ApBBB> bug i mean
16:11:04 <kimmoli> pvuorela: ok, tnxfor update. and there is tohkbd proto in ruoholahti at least
16:11:22 <pvuorela> ApBBB: for greek keyboard? i'm the person handling that stuff :)
16:11:28 <cybette> moving on..
16:11:29 <iekku> kimmoli, we should have protos in tampere.
16:11:45 <cybette> #topic General discussions - everyone (10 min)
16:11:45 <ApBBB> greek hungarian or whatever else missing. I miss greek personaly :P
16:12:01 <iekku> ok i have couple of lines from thp
16:12:08 <cybette> you can continue the kbd layout discussion of course, but i think there are some things from iekku
16:12:09 <iekku> he couldn't make to meeting
16:12:11 <kimmoli> iekku: dirk did send it, and afaik Jope has it (last info)
16:12:25 <kimmoli> cybette: i'm done
16:12:28 <kimmoli> cybette: sorry
16:12:29 <iekku> #info QtPositioning will be supported in Harbour
16:12:29 <iekku> #link https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/pull/54
16:12:29 <iekku> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/11446/support-for-qtpositioning-qtlocation-apis/?answer=87430#post-id-87430
16:12:32 <cybette> kimmoli: np, thanks :)
16:12:33 <iekku> #info voicemail notification fix is on its way
16:12:35 <iekku> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/8779/no-notification-when-new-voicemail/
16:12:52 <iekku> kimmoli, he sent them to tampere :) no worries
16:13:02 <kimmoli> iekku: ok
16:13:08 <ApBBB> cybette: or iekku status of here? i read the previous logs and you would ask stefano
16:14:23 <iekku> ApBBB, negotiations are ongoing, no news to share. i hope stefano will update TJC once we have something to share
16:14:50 <SfietKonstantinW> cool good news iekku :)
16:14:56 <sledges> \o/
16:15:16 <daitheflu> voicemail fix \o/
16:15:26 <iekku> SfietKonstantinW, thp manage almost to keep one week schedule ;)
16:15:35 <sledges> M4rtinK_jolla_: ^^
16:15:40 <SfietKonstantinW> yep :)
16:16:13 <iekku> for voicemail, thp's comments are bit hidden, you need to see more comments
16:16:33 <vmaatta> comment: last meeting; payment, this meeting; localization… i.e. something that a recent QT takes a stab at… just want to say don't reinvent the wheel.. try to get up to date with QT instead.. I do appreciate it's hard to update but still.
16:16:56 <Morpog_work> would be good to info the here information
16:17:22 <iekku> #info no news about HERE status, TJC will be updated once there's info
16:18:25 <cybette> 2 more min
16:18:26 <M4rtinK_jolla_> thp: thanks yet again for pushing this through! :)
16:18:32 <pketolai> oh...
16:18:35 <Morpog_work> paid apps really need to be top priority, it was after all promised for H2 2014, which was already late for most people/developers
16:18:47 <pketolai> #info TJC now shows the rough status of the questions tracked by Jolla and allows filtering the search based on that status. Note that the question tracking is still in quite early state and not all questions, which might have internal items filed, have the linking in place.
16:19:07 <ApBBB> yes the app situation needs to be improved there are even apps rotting in the store
16:19:26 <Morpog_work> pketolai: how to see that?
16:19:29 <iekku> pketolai, \o/
16:19:48 <pketolai> Morpog_work: it's the tracked questions selector in the side bar
16:20:08 <vmaatta> pketolai: great
16:20:14 <Morpog_work> Ahhh, good to know. Great
16:20:19 <pketolai> and questions them self have the "tracked by jolla..." under the title
16:20:47 <cybette> thanks for some good news from iekku and pvuorela :) let's wrap up the meeting.
16:20:50 <daitheflu> feedback \o/
16:20:54 <cybette> #topic Wrap up and next meeting (10 min)
16:21:16 <cybette> so, in two weeks that'll be April 7th
16:22:27 <iekku> +1 for that
16:22:54 <cybette> note possible time change in your region with the start of summer time
16:23:12 <vmaatta> sure, +1
16:23:22 <cybette> (in Finland time changes on March 29)
16:23:36 <cybette> iekku: will you be available to chair next meeting=
16:24:03 <Morpog_work> ok, gtg, cya all
16:24:13 <cybette> Morpog_work: thanks for joining, bye!
16:25:06 <vmaatta> thanks, cya l8r
16:25:17 <iekku> cybette, i should be.
16:25:26 <cybette> iekku: ok thanks!
16:25:47 <cybette> let's make it so
16:25:52 <cybette> #info Next meeting Tues Apr-7 @ 15:00 UTC, Chairperson iekku
16:25:53 <iekku> +1
16:26:03 <cybette> anything else?
16:26:20 <iekku> thank you all for participating and thanks cybette for chairing
16:27:08 <cybette> thanks to everyone, see you next time!
16:27:15 <kimmoli> o7
16:27:18 <sledges> o\/
16:27:20 <daitheflu> thanks :)
16:27:25 <cybette> #endmeeting