14:30:32 <cybette> #startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 11-Feb-2016 @ 14:30 UTC
14:30:32 <merbot`> Meeting started Thu Feb 11 14:30:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is cybette. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
14:30:32 <merbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:30:47 <cybette> #info Happy Chinese new year from Taiwan! And welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting
14:30:52 <sledges> was all good:)
14:30:54 <cybette> #info Meeting info and agenda: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-February/006960.html
14:31:01 <cybette> I'm the meeting chair for today and will be keeping time and order. Please behave and show mutual respect, and let's have a productive discussion!
14:31:06 <cybette> #topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info
14:31:12 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, Community member.
14:31:14 <lainwir3d> #info Richard Rondu - Community app developer & Whisky drinker
14:31:27 <cybette> #info Carol Chen, community member, hatless meeting chair today
14:31:27 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe - community developer
14:31:38 <gerbick> good morning
14:31:48 <veskuh_> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Jolla, Program Manager
14:31:50 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, sailing porting and pootling with Jolla
14:31:51 <eugenio> #info Eugenio Paolantonio - community member, lurker
14:31:55 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling, porter, community
14:31:57 <jlassila1> #info Juhani Lassila, Head of Communications, Jolla
14:32:01 <daitheflu> #info François, community
14:32:05 <gerbick> #info William McBee - UX developer, tester, community
14:32:06 <lbt> #info David Greaves, sailor and Mer guy
14:32:08 <fravaccaro> #info Fra, community member. Happy new year @cybette <3
14:32:16 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc, doctor of tortoises
14:32:31 <n9mx> #info n9mx,Community member
14:32:33 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla
14:32:34 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen community
14:32:35 <cybette> fravaccaro: thanks :)
14:32:59 <Sage_> #info Marko Saukko, Chief Engineer @ Jolla
14:33:27 <guzik> #info Kuba Domaszewicz, Chief Engineer of Aidlab for Jolla project
14:33:35 <Jare> #info Jarkko Lehtoranta, SDK Developer @ Jolla
14:34:08 <cybette> 1 more min, intro yourself with #info
14:34:33 <dcaliste> #info Damien, community
14:35:35 <cybette> any more intros? (prefix with #info)
14:35:50 <cybette> ok let's get to the topics
14:36:00 <cybette> #topic Status update from Jolla (tablets, financing, resourcing, etc.) - Jolla + community (10 min)
14:36:06 <cybette> #info please address the subject of the tablet situation (delivery to backers, taobao situation) - Also, what about additional perks - e.g. 64GB upgrades - and $20 USD delivery fee that we were asked to add to the tablet contributions? Are those included in the current theoritical refund plan?
14:36:17 <cybette> i think we have several sailors here today, thanks for joining!
14:36:23 <cybette> jlassila1: will you take the lead on this?
14:36:32 <jlassila1> Yes thanks I can do that!
14:36:38 <jlassila1> Hi everyone :)
14:36:54 <jlassila1> First of all about the status:
14:37:06 <jlassila1> We've been working super hard to create a seamless process for the refund program. It's not a trivial task, as we did not have a ready solution available.
14:37:16 <jlassila1> We've progressed nicely, but some parts are yet to be worked on. But we're getting there soon, and starting to send intstructions etc.
14:37:34 <jlassila1> About the perks.
14:37:46 <jlassila1> All of them will be included in the program.
14:38:25 <jlassila1> About Taobao:
14:39:16 <jlassila1> According to our knowledge there would have been a few hundred devices on sale there.
14:39:20 <cybette> #info Refund program for Jolla tablet is not a trivial task as there is no ready solution available. Jolla has been working super hard on it with good progress, and is starting to send instructions etc. to contributors.
14:40:00 <cybette> #info All the perks (64GB upgrades, delivery fee etc.) will be included in the refund program
14:40:17 <jlassila1> According to the sellers there would be more devices on Taobao - we are investigating this, since we did not know about this.
14:40:36 <jjoe> what about the 540 tablets? How many 64GB and 32GB tablets are in this batch?
14:41:35 <jlassila1> In this batch there are both 64 an 32GB versions, I don't have the exact figure here.
14:41:56 <cybette> #info Regarding Jolla Tablets on Taobao, according to Jolla's knowledge there would have been a few hundred devices on sale there, but the sellers indicate there are more devices. Jolla is still investingating this.
14:42:59 <cybette> #info There are both 64GB and 32GB tablets in the batch of 540, but no exact figures of each.
14:43:05 <fpe> any news on when the shipping of the remaining 540 devices starts?
14:43:11 <jlassila1> Selling unofficial devices on Taobao with SFOS on them is not OK for us. We have raised this topic with our partner.
14:43:30 <cybette> 3 more min, any more questions for jlassila1?
14:43:57 <r0kk3rz> jlassila1: what of people who have purchased from taobao?
14:44:00 <jlassila1> fpe: we are just going through this process, contributor lists etc. so it should not take long unless something unexpected occurs.
14:44:05 <tortoisedoc> jlassila : when the first preview of the intex phone? :)
14:44:16 <cybette> tortoisedoc: that's in the next topic
14:44:22 <cybette> tortoisedoc: please wait
14:44:26 <stephg> :)
14:44:26 <tortoisedoc> XD sorry
14:44:34 <jlassila1> r0kk3rz: there is a FAQ in the latest blog addressing this Q.
14:45:38 <cybette> #info It should not take long for the shipping of remaining 540 tablets, although no exact date yet. Please also refer to FAQ in latest blog post for other questions.
14:45:59 <cybette> ok time almost up for this topic!
14:46:11 <cybette> thanks jlassila1 for the update
14:46:14 <cybette> let's carry on
14:46:20 <coley_> are the unknown quantity of tablets now beyond Jolla's reach?
14:46:27 <cybette> #topic Open actions for jlassila - petervink (20 min)
14:46:37 <cybette> #info roadmap development, more frequent communication, public release, licensing (turing phone / intex), update sailfishos website
14:46:51 <cybette> it seems petervink isn't here
14:47:08 <cybette> stephg: you're named as the substitute
14:47:21 <cybette> stephg: please take the lead to direct the questions for jlassila1
14:47:29 <stephg> I am but I wasn't consulted
14:47:33 <stephg> two secs
14:47:38 <cybette> stephg: hmm
14:47:48 <stephg> quickly reading ttjc
14:48:04 <jjoe> well, that's more of a direct topic for jlassila1 to comment on, why would this need community anyway?
14:48:05 <cybette> jlassila1: do you have responses for the questions addressed?
14:48:18 <M4rtinK> isn't that basically what was actioned on the last meeting ?
14:48:34 <M4rtinK> at least the roadmap update thing was IIRC
14:48:38 <cybette> jjoe: the community member who raises the questions should have the responsibility to be present to direct the discussions
14:48:45 <stephg> cybette I don't really have any input for this item (but do have some for the next)
14:48:57 <jlassila1> Ok I can take these then.
14:49:02 <jlassila1> Quickly.
14:49:05 <cybette> jlassila1: thank you
14:49:36 <cybette> stephg: ok no problem
14:49:41 <TylerTemp> Is "turing phone moved to Sailfish OS" a real thing?
14:49:42 <jlassila1> Roadmap: previously already stated that currently it is hard to give a long roadmap as our strategy is being worked on.
14:49:59 <jlassila1> More frequent comms: trying our best :)
14:50:27 <jlassila1> Public release: veskuh_ can comment?
14:50:42 <veskuh_> is pending on one critical issue
14:50:42 <cybette> #info Roadmap: as stated previously, it is hard for Jolla to give a long roadmap as the strategy is still being worked on
14:50:55 <veskuh_> So this one actually: https://together.jolla.com/question/128005/bug201taalojarvi-auto-ignoring-incoming-connection/
14:51:04 <cybette> #info Jolla is doing their best to have more frequent comms
14:51:30 <jlassila1> OK, then licensing:
14:51:35 <cybette> (personally I think jlassila1 and sailors being active here in the irc meetings are a great step!!)
14:51:52 <cybette> #info Public release of is pending on one critical issue
14:51:58 <jlassila1> Intex phone is being presented in Mobile World Congress 1,5 weeks from now.
14:52:12 <fravaccaro> @veskuh so will there be another ea release, as stated elsewhere?
14:52:32 <Smar> (yes :)
14:52:49 <veskuh_> fravaccaro: we do not yet know the issue well enough to say if we will have another ea or hotfix later
14:52:51 <jlassila1> The Intex project is moving well, and if you want to see the phone, come to Barcelona :)
14:52:57 <stephg> :)
14:53:27 <jlassila1> Turing CEO announced their intentions last week, and we can confirm the partnership.
14:53:41 <cybette> #info the blocking issue for is https://together.jolla.com/question/128005/bug201taalojarvi-auto-ignoring-incoming-connection/
14:54:01 <fravaccaro> ok, thanks :)
14:54:10 <sledges> is https://together.jolla.com/question/126942/2017-optimization-loop/ a blocker too?
14:54:12 <pketo> for there are also openssl and openssh updates, which, afaik, are building at the moment :)
14:54:14 <cybette> #info Intex phone is being presented in MWC in less than 2 weeks, if you want to see the phone, come to Barcelona
14:54:38 <cybette> #info Turing CEO announced their intentions last week, and Jolla can confirm the partnership
14:54:48 <sledges> (or is a catch22 situation, since the bug is in 2.0.0..)
14:54:56 <tortoisedoc> jlassila1 : will it sell outside of india too?
14:55:06 <jlassila1> SailfishOS.org website will have a slightly bigger update before MWC, we're working on it as we speak.
14:55:09 <cybette> #info There are also openssl and openssh updates for, which are building at the moment
14:55:35 <jlassila1> tortoisedoc: Intex phone will be available in India only.
14:55:36 <cybette> #info SailfishOS.org website will have a slightly bigger update before MWC, Jolla is working on it as we speak
14:55:42 <tortoisedoc> ;_;
14:55:49 <tortoisedoc> no chance for a new jphone for me then?
14:56:02 <r0kk3rz> tortoisedoc: sneeky trip to mumbai?
14:56:11 <cybette> #info Intex phone will be available in India only
14:56:16 <tortoisedoc> r0kk3rz : too expensive :/
14:56:25 <cybette> 10 more min
14:56:40 <M4rtinK> hmm, damn
14:56:50 <cybette> although I think jlassila1 covered all the action points.
14:56:51 * kimmoli needs to refresh my india contacts...
14:57:05 <cybette> let's have 3 min for questions
14:57:07 <Smar> there’s been other rumours too, just need to wait someone to get something ready... :P
14:57:20 <tortoisedoc> Smar : what other rumors
14:57:26 <tortoisedoc> bring them up here :p
14:57:28 <tortoisedoc> fast :P:P
14:57:37 <Smar> well, ”rumours”, but fairphone, that turing phone, was there something else too? :D
14:57:46 <tortoisedoc> Nokia? :D
14:57:50 <M4rtinK> some tablet would be nice ;-)
14:57:53 <tortoisedoc> lolz
14:57:59 <Smar> puzzlephone?
14:58:05 <andybranson> Is PriveSCB another licensee?
14:58:15 <cybette> are there any questions for jlassila1 ? I understand he has to leave shortly
14:58:28 <M4rtinK> for all the devs expecting them & people in regions where Jolla phone has not been available
14:58:32 <Smar> well, knowing if they are licensing sailfish would be nice to know
14:58:35 <fravaccaro> will the Intex phone come to Europe at some point?
14:58:38 <Smar> turing is, but the two others
14:58:48 <mal-> I'm hoping to do a prerelease of fairphone 2 sailfish soon(tm)
14:58:58 <coley_> Any more on Jolla and SSH communications?
14:59:07 <cybette> jlassila1: ^
14:59:12 <jlassila1> fravaccaro: Intex has ambitions to go outside India, but that's their decision.
14:59:26 <jlassila1> Nothing confirmed from their side.
14:59:53 <cybette> 1 more min
14:59:59 <sledges> #info Fairphone 2 pre-release soon by mal- \o/
15:00:08 <jlassila1> coley_: with SSH our cooperation is moving slow, but still. Nothing really to tell here.
15:00:10 <cybette> sledges: cool! o/
15:00:10 <stephg> yey
15:00:33 <kimmoli> SSH is sshhh.--
15:00:43 <sledges> sshussh
15:00:48 <cybette> #info Decision to go outside India is up to Intex, nothing confirmed from their side for now.
15:00:49 <tortoisedoc> ssh uses gnu-coding stile so meh :P
15:00:49 <urjaman> hoping to => "release soon"
15:01:01 <fravaccaro> so, to sum it up, for the first half of 2016 sfos will be available on Fairphone 2 and Puzzlephone (unofficial) and Turignphone (official). Correct?
15:01:01 <cybette> #info Jolla's cooperation with SSH is moving slow, not much to share at the moment.
15:01:16 <r0kk3rz> sledges: anything to report wrt pootling since fosdem?
15:01:26 <cybette> ok thank you jlassila1 for covering the first two topics so well! let's move on
15:01:30 <sledges> r0kk3rz: WIP and getting there, together with pketo :)
15:01:38 <jlassila1> My pleasure :)
15:01:42 <stephg> +1
15:01:47 <stephg> thanks
15:01:58 <cybette> #topic Collection of files and instruction of public ports for 'non-developer'-users - petervink (10 min)
15:02:05 <sledges> community's pootle input at fosdem input was invaluable for documentation that i'm working on
15:02:09 <cybette> #info How to bring public ports that are fully working to users that are not-developers but want to run Sailfish OS on their device. We can generate some more traction in the community if we can make this more accessible and attractive.
15:02:26 <cybette> stephg: since petervink is not here, please take this
15:02:31 <stephg> thanks
15:02:40 <stephg> I can only speculate at exactly what petervink's intentions were but there was chat in #sailfishos-porters on Tuesday (I think)
15:02:49 <stephg> #link http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23sailfishos-porters/%23sailfishos-porters.2016-02-09.log.html
15:02:57 <stephg> and the generan consensus was that more exposure of the ports was a good thing, and that the situation could be improved.
15:03:05 <stephg> Any porters present, please correct me if I'm wrong
15:03:21 <stephg> Nokius had a working selector based upon the one in the CyanogenMod wiki but it needs both a bit of work itself as well as porter-pages within the wiki so the onus would be on the (porting?) community to help tidy that up.
15:03:37 <stephg> I can't share the link right now as the wiki is down for maintenance
15:03:45 <cybette> #info (off topic) Pootle is WIP and getting there, community's input at FOSDEM was invaluable for documentation
15:04:01 <kimmoli> there was also question in channel to make port repositories collected in one place /wiki page? /one github?
15:04:09 <stephg> but it looked very much like this
15:04:11 <stephg> https://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Devices
15:04:17 <r0kk3rz> stephg: i went through a lot of it not so long ago, lots of ports are missing info about how they were built or what sources, where uploaded configs are
15:04:21 <locusf> https://together.jolla.com/question/128326/community-port-requests-2016/ <- there are some requests here
15:04:35 <sledges> stephg: sadly Nokius ran into some licencing oppresion from cm wiki creators of that device selectron
15:04:50 <locusf> r0kk3rz: thats probably due to the fact that the oldest ports were non-modular
15:04:51 <stephg> r0kk3rz: yes that's the impression I got as well. Nokius were we to ressurect this or put effort in, what is needed to be done?
15:04:52 <sledges> and so the effort stopped
15:05:01 <stephg> locusf: didn't know that, thanks
15:05:16 <stephg> (sledges appologies!)
15:05:41 <stephg> Personally whatever the solution is I do feel it should be in the mer wiki as that's where everything else is
15:05:41 <sledges> currently we have the famous libhybris adaptation wiki table, with first column being a link to install instructions
15:06:02 <stephg> sledges: yes, and to me it was good enough but not for him
15:06:11 * lbt apologises for the wiki downtime - I hate mediawiki and apache configs (working on it atm)
15:06:15 <sledges> any suggestions to make this more obvious/unified (like cm did) are very welcome
15:06:34 <sledges> *beautified, you name it:))
15:07:05 <r0kk3rz> sledges: some kind of unified template would be nice, atm its very inconsistent
15:07:06 <stephg> sledges: I would wonder how much a barrier it actually is, but anything that increases the porting effort presence is obvisouly a good thing
15:07:16 <r0kk3rz> with links to merwiki, or xda, or peoples blogs, or wherever
15:07:19 <stephg> Regarding simplicity for non-developers, well, each port is different and require differing levels of technical compentence.
15:07:45 <sledges> r0kk3rz: yes, every porter found their fav channel - quite a few porters came from xda, where back there they found biggest audience for sfos too
15:08:05 <sledges> i agree, it's heterogeneous:)
15:08:08 <cybette> #info More exposure of ports is a good thing, situation can be improved, such as adding missing info for ports (how they are built, what sources, where the uplodaed configs are)
15:08:13 <locusf> what about pure (non-hybris) ports?
15:08:20 <stephg> sl	+1
15:08:26 <stephg> sledges +1
15:08:32 <stephg> (sorry really laggy internet)
15:08:47 <stephg> locusf: they're no different?
15:08:54 <locusf> stephg: very different
15:09:00 <stephg> so should porters have an effort to clean up port pages in the wiki?
15:09:15 <stephg> locusf technically they may be but a port is still a port, no?
15:09:16 <sledges> if we could copycat cyanogenmod devices wiki without breaching any licences, i'd see this as the best templatised approach, also with nice photos:)
15:09:42 <locusf> stephg: well mer wiki only discusses librhybris ports
15:09:51 <r0kk3rz> stephg: i think if you want to be listed in the table, you should meet certain criteria wrt reproducabillity
15:10:06 <cybette> #info Each port is different requiring differing levels of technical competence, so simplicity for non-developers is not straightforward.
15:10:24 <sledges> r0kk3rz: yes, many porters sadly didn't keep the hit-by-a-bus theory :(
15:10:28 <stephg> locusf so reorganisation is needed
15:10:36 <sledges> but can't blame them, hadk was horrid in the past, so was the non-modular approach
15:10:51 <cybette> i think we need more time for this topic, adding 5 more min
15:11:02 <sledges> locusf: quite often you'll find libhybris still used in e.g. 10% of hw peripherals support
15:11:04 <stephg> so I have no problem in spending a bit of time here and there cleaning the wiki up, but each device is very much domain specific knowledge
15:11:16 <stephg> and wherther the port is active or dormant or...
15:11:17 <r0kk3rz> sledges: for sure, but without some kind of install instructions, its misleading
15:11:47 <stephg> r0kk3rz: each device is different. it's necessarily not completely n00b friendly
15:11:50 <locusf> my idea: have a list of devices, each linking to a subpage with templated information
15:11:56 <r0kk3rz> or maybe not install, but configs/sources/something
15:11:59 <stephg> locusf: good idea
15:12:16 <locusf> templated meaning that they should follow a general pattern
15:12:18 <sledges> r0kk3rz: if there aren't install instructions, most probably port died off, hit a wall of e.g. some proprietary modem controls or other factors; at that time it didn't look worth the time to document eveyrthing; however this year is looking good wrt to modem-bringup (we've advanced in porting that)
15:12:19 <stephg> r0kk3rz: so as sledges says that already exists for the hybris devices in the hybris table...
15:12:20 <locusf> just like cm wiki does
15:12:29 <sledges> where modem was and still is biggest show stopper in a port
15:12:31 <cybette> #info Cleaning and consolidating the info for various ports will require domain specific knowledge for each device
15:12:51 <r0kk3rz> stephg: for many devices i could find nothing
15:13:13 <stephg> r0kk3rz then that's bad porting on our part :/
15:13:44 <sledges> a porter simply wandered off, with all repos still in their build hosts
15:13:52 <sledges> life kicked in, or modem didn't bring up
15:14:01 <sledges> to summarise the porting's past:)
15:14:06 <stephg> yeah
15:14:11 <cybette> stephg, sledges: i don't think this is something we can resolve with limited time of the meeting. can you take it to porters channel/meeting for further discussion? and present possible solutions at future meetings?
15:14:28 <r0kk3rz> as always happens, but trying to retain as much knowledge and work is a good idea for the porting project
15:14:28 <mal-> modem used to be a big problem, not so much anymore
15:14:29 <stephg> cybette: that sounds reasonable
15:14:32 <sledges> yep, #templatizeallthethings
15:14:46 <mal-> at least on qcom devices
15:15:06 <stephg> (again, also not my question :P )
15:15:12 <sledges> since most ports these days reach an acceptable state, we can start writing up porting etiquette;)
15:15:24 <r0kk3rz> sledges: +1
15:15:34 <cybette> #info Discussions to continue in #sailfishos-porters and to be revisited in future meetings hopefully with solutions :)
15:15:41 <cybette> stephg: thanks for standing in nonetheless!
15:16:02 <cybette> we should require that the person who propose topics also inform the "substitutes" :P
15:16:10 <stephg> yes.
15:16:19 <cybette> ok let's go to lbt's topic
15:16:28 <cybette> #topic Documentation priorities for SailfishOS - lbt (20 min)
15:16:33 <cybette> #info There's actually lots of documentation for the components that make up SailfishOS but it's rather scattered and there is a lot missing. So the discussion is "What are the priorities - and why?"
15:16:43 <cybette> #info Remember that this is more than just for SFOS app developers; we have platform developers; hardware adaptaters; UI designers etc. We also need to provide information about the whole platform; APIs for each area; tool documentation etc. Finally there are things like collaboration and processes (MRs, code reviews, bug/feature handling).
15:16:53 <cybette> lbt: take the stage!
15:17:15 <lbt> Sure :)
15:17:45 <lbt> Most of what we want to discuss is in the topic
15:18:12 <lbt> The main thing is that we're just beginning this effort to collate the information
15:18:14 <stephg> lbt is there a particular angle you/someone is coming from for cleanup?
15:18:23 <lbt> and getting the community involved really early
15:18:36 <lbt> let me paste an outline ...
15:19:16 <lbt> http://pastie.org/10718032
15:19:24 <sledges> sfos wiki -> tabula rasa?:)
15:19:29 <r0kk3rz> lbt: a question i had in relation to this; A number of times people have developed patches or published code on TJC with the idea to help jolla fix/implement some kind of function
15:19:41 <lbt> I had meant to get this to a more readable format but I've hit issues on the Mer wiki that took up my day so far
15:19:53 <r0kk3rz> what code licences would help jolla make use of these kinds of things?
15:20:28 <lbt> so stephg ... we want to provide more documentation - it's what community, developers, customers and users have been saying
15:20:40 <stephg> k
15:20:41 <cybette> #link SailfishOS documentation outline http://pastie.org/10718032
15:20:50 <Smar> fwiw, comprehensive collection of examples/tutorials would be really useful for newcomers, for me it’s been hard to find out how a thing x or y should be done, and sometimes it requires reading of existing applications for hints...
15:21:13 <stephg> Smar: you're speaking from an app dev perspective? (only asking)
15:21:17 <Smar> yes
15:21:17 <lbt> I think we'll be doing a lot of CC licensing for the content
15:21:34 <lbt> and the current plan is to use a wiki for a lot of the material
15:21:49 <stephg> which is sensible
15:21:57 <lbt> this will be a sailfishos.org site
15:22:09 <stephg> so how much is rewrite and how much is organising
15:22:10 <sledges> \o/
15:22:28 <stephg> (former hard, latter easily broken down)
15:22:40 <lbt> the initial work is to prepare an outline structure - that's my task over the coming days
15:22:59 <lbt> then with that in place we can begin to accept contributions
15:23:07 <r0kk3rz> lbt: from what ive seen it sounds like a good start really
15:23:08 <cybette> #info Current plan is to use a wiki for most of the material, and as a sailfishos.org site with a lot of CC licensing for the content
15:23:15 <lbt> this will include translations etc
15:23:52 <lbt> there's a TJC question : https://together.jolla.com/question/129182/what-should-sailfishos-documentation-be-providing/
15:24:01 <lbt> #info there's a TJC question : https://together.jolla.com/question/129182/what-should-sailfishos-documentation-be-providing/
15:24:31 <lbt> initially we'll probably gather information there
15:24:42 <sledges> lbt, are we going to have a wiki on sailfishos.org ?
15:24:46 <lbt> sledges: yes
15:25:14 <stephg> lbt tjc seems a good place to start as at least folks can vote and you get an idea of priority
15:25:15 <lbt> we know a wiki isn't ideal but we think it's the best solution for now
15:26:05 <cybette> #info Use the TJC link above to gather info, votes and feedback
15:26:07 <cybette> 10 more min
15:26:21 <sledges> lbt: would some things cropped up by jolla stay in stone like https://sailfishos.org/develop/ (cc Smar) ?
15:26:26 <sledges> or would be moved to wiki as well?
15:26:42 <sledges> (^question to all, really)
15:27:01 <lbt> sledges: over time we'd like to ensure that all content has similar contribution capabilities
15:27:10 <sledges> yep
15:27:31 <daitheflu> lbt: just make sure content is reviewed and the wiki will be ok :)
15:27:31 <lbt> there's likely to be some which has a slightly more 'marketing' feel but that should just be the top page :)
15:27:41 <r0kk3rz> lbt: any comment on how contributions would work?
15:28:08 <sledges> just thinking where to put pootle docs: maybe the process described by jolla could be frozen, and tables with language coordinators and teams could be in a wiki (best)
15:28:14 <lbt> r0kk3rz: we're hoping for authorised users
15:28:25 <lbt> ie a login - but that will include community
15:28:34 <locusf> jolla id?
15:28:35 <Smar> sledges: my workflow has more or less been ”Click few times to get the doc” ”Oh, this doesn’t explain how to do this” -> click around -> go to google to find out if there is anything else.... so I’d be inclined to restructure stuff so that the there is clear sections, and not too deep paths as there is now
15:28:42 <lbt> locusf: we'll see
15:28:48 <Smar> if that’s what you were asking?
15:29:11 <lbt> Smar: when you look at the doc outline it becomes clear that the task is not small
15:29:11 <stephg> Smar: well if you're having pain points then yes I guess that's what he's asking :)
15:29:20 <lbt> also we have upstream docs which we'd like to include
15:29:31 <lbt> (eg Qt library docs etc)
15:29:41 <r0kk3rz> lbt: is linking to upstream not sufficient?
15:29:48 <Smar> lbt: I know, I’m just trying to give my impression from when I was trying to do something with sailfish :)
15:30:09 <lbt> so there's likely to be some areas of autogenerated docs - which I'd hope would have 'fork me' type banners for doing git-based commits
15:30:27 <Smar> oh yes, there should be links to upstream docs, last time I checked they were missing
15:30:34 <Smar> like, ”this includes this, see the upstream doc”
15:30:40 <lbt> r0kk3rz: we'll see - this is quite new - I think the intention is to publish all docs we have
15:30:59 <lbt> r0kk3rz: there's often a lot of upstream in the git repos or docs/ dirs
15:31:03 <cybette> 5 more min for this topic
15:31:13 <r0kk3rz> lbt: i guess being able to point to docs for exact Qt information in sailfish is important
15:31:27 <r0kk3rz> rather than whatever QtProject has as latest
15:31:32 <lbt> r0kk3rz: ah yes - the version issue :)
15:31:36 <lbt> oh such fun
15:31:40 <Smar> Qt project does contain versioned docs?
15:31:42 <r0kk3rz> :)
15:32:09 <Smar> ...not for 5.2 :(
15:32:17 <lbt> any experience in handling things like versioning in wikis would be good
15:33:03 <lbt> personally I favour having HOWTO and woolly architectural stuff in the wiki and then linking to more versioned API docs
15:33:04 <Smar> generating own copy of Qt’s doc is possible too, then you could just link to that
15:33:19 <lbt> tutorials are messily in the middle
15:33:23 <Smar> +1
15:33:27 <lbt> Smar: that's what I'd like to do
15:33:35 <lbt> time/resources permitting
15:33:36 <Smar> okay, sounds good :)
15:33:37 <cybette> #info Things to be considered: contribution capabilities, upstream docs, handling versioning in wiki
15:33:53 <cybette> 3 more min
15:34:10 <lbt> we can continue this topic next time too - by then we should have quite a bit of content in the wiki
15:34:26 <r0kk3rz> lbt: community can help with tutorials, some of us have written some elsewhere anyway
15:34:45 <lbt> r0kk3rz: yes, that really would be helpful
15:35:13 <cybette> lbt: let's do that. great topic btw, good to see some momentum towards it.
15:35:27 <cybette> ok thanks lbt, moving on
15:35:30 <lbt> I'll see if we can do a blog post
15:35:37 <lbt> to announce when the wiki is kinda up
15:35:37 <stephg> cool
15:35:37 <cybette> cool
15:35:47 <cybette> #topic General discussions - everyone (10 min)
15:35:54 <sledges> i imagine outline being in the wiki, and then those in-the-know would fill in the content ^_^
15:35:59 <cybette> floor is open to all :)
15:36:01 <sledges> soz, past the time:)
15:36:03 <stephg> lbt: one little general thing re the wiki
15:36:17 <stephg> I'm doing a bit of a daily cleanup of the spam, maybe 50-100 articles a day
15:36:25 <stephg> which is fine, but I think we need a captcha :/
15:36:29 <lbt> stephg: #mer ? :)
15:36:41 <nh1402> I guess I missed a good chunk of the meeting
15:36:44 <stephg> will take it there then :)
15:37:05 <cybette> nh1402: check the minutes after this :)
15:38:16 <cybette> noone? well, i'm having delayed FOSDEM flu :P
15:38:29 <r0kk3rz> sledges: agreed, if the bones are there, and theres a path to contribution, then we can put on the meat
15:38:42 <nh1402> I did read the log in hopes of catching up, but by the time I finished, the actual meeting was wrapping up.
15:39:06 <r0kk3rz> cybette: mild fosdem flu here
15:39:08 <urjaman> read faster
15:39:13 <cybette> nh1402: you have 7 more minutes to ask/say something :)
15:39:19 <kimmoli> hi
15:39:37 <ghosalmartin> has there been anymore discussion on the open sourcing of sfos's closed components?
15:39:37 <urjaman> /jk, but i was also late by some 10min
15:39:44 <cybette> r0kk3rz: yay i'm not alone! (get well soon :))
15:39:54 <lbt> Stskeeps: ^^  ??
15:40:30 <nh1402> Developers are more than welcome and definitely needed in terms of sfdroid. Development will slow down from March onwards on that front.
15:40:30 <urjaman> yeah there was lots of open source talk when things werent so well, but it kinda stopped?
15:40:38 <r0kk3rz> ghosalmartin: at the FOSDEM BoF this was mentioned as still ongoing
15:40:42 <stephg> nh1402: what's needed there?
15:40:55 <ghosalmartin> rokk3rz: ahh thanks
15:41:14 <cybette> #info Developers are more than welcome and definitely needed for sfdroid. Development will slow down from March onwards.
15:41:14 <nh1402> stephg: help
15:41:18 <ghosalmartin> also are Jolla going to release any kind of statement to do with Turing phones?
15:41:26 <urjaman> k...
15:41:27 <stephg> yeah but what/how
15:41:36 <r0kk3rz> ghosalmartin: good news was now jolla is smaller, investors see greater importance on community contributions
15:41:39 <r0kk3rz> or something like that
15:41:40 <stephg> ghosalmartin: check the minutes :)
15:41:54 <ghosalmartin> stephg: will do
15:42:27 <nh1402> stephg: porting to the other CM bases, abstracting sensors and input to work through Sailfish without lag/delay, rendering lag, integration (which i think I can handle, but need to learn QT first.
15:42:45 <nh1402> CM and AOSP bases, whatever base is used.
15:42:57 <Stskeeps> (not here, sick kid laying on my stomach)
15:42:58 <stephg> nh1402 ok so for those porter devices are needed
15:43:07 <Raymaen> will Jolla officialy Write something about the colaboration with TuringPhone or do we have to wait for MWC?
15:43:18 <cybette> ghosalmartin: #info Turing CEO announced their intentions last week, and Jolla can confirm the partnership
15:43:21 <cybette> 2 more min
15:43:55 <stephg> Raymaen: wait I suspect
15:44:28 <stephg> nh1402: for sfdroid don't know where to start looking for howtos and docs and things
15:44:32 <nh1402> stephg: The main and currently only developer of sfdroid and CM related modifications has been krnlyng and he's about to get busy with life/work stuff.
15:44:43 <stephg> right
15:45:03 <cybette> my guess is Jolla is busy with MWC prep now and will make announcements during the event
15:45:05 <nh1402> his modifications are up on github
15:45:13 <cybette> alright time to wrap up
15:45:20 <cybette> #topic Wrap up and next meeting (5 min)
15:45:44 <cybette> next meeting in 2 weeks?
15:45:45 <stephg> nh1402: ok
15:45:58 <stephg> cybette: does that clash with MWC?
15:46:13 <cybette> stephg: you're right, i just checked the dates
15:46:19 <cybette> maybe the week after will be better
15:46:26 <veskuh_> cybette: +1
15:46:29 <stephg> either a week before (unless there's nothing) or as you say the week after?
15:47:03 <cybette> i think next week the Jolla sailors will be extremely busy with MWC so i'll suggest the week after
15:47:15 <r0kk3rz> cybette: +1
15:47:35 <sledges> +1:)
15:47:35 <cybette> ok so 3rd of March. i think i'm available to host unless there are other takers
15:48:23 <cybette> #info Next meeting Thurs Mar-03 @ 14:30 UTC, Chairperson cybette
15:48:33 <cybette> any parting thoughts?
15:49:01 <lbt> keep an eye on the docs wiki please - it'd be nice to see community contributions in MWC
15:49:12 <lbt> #info keep an eye on the docs wiki please - it'd be nice to see community contributions in MWC :)
15:49:20 <cybette> great :)
15:49:35 <stephg> lbt: cool
15:49:53 <cybette> thanks all for being here today! see you in 3 weeks and all the best to those attending MWC! we want to hear good news from there!
15:50:04 <cybette> #endmeeting