13:30:33 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting SailfishOS, Open Source, Collaboration 5th of May 2016
13:30:33 <merbot> Meeting started Thu May  5 13:30:33 2016 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
13:30:33 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:30:46 <Jaymzz> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-May/007048.html
13:30:51 <a1kar> #info Amilcar Santos, App Developer
13:31:00 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect.
13:31:09 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
13:31:24 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, community, porting, tohs and apps
13:31:31 <kimmoli>13:31:56 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Community Manager, first time chairperson, wish me luck! :)
13:32:04 <urjaman> #info Urja Rannikko, community ...
13:32:29 <fravaccaro> #info fravaccaro Jolla Community Italia
13:32:32 <kimmoli> break a keyboard Jaymzz
13:32:39 <veskuh> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager at Jolla
13:32:44 <schmittlauch> #info schmittlauch, community member, early-acces tester, lurker
13:32:46 <fravaccaro> @Jaymzz good luck <3
13:32:48 <jalomann> #info Jarmo Koivunen. Community member. First time here.
13:32:49 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, hw & l10n @ Jolla
13:32:52 <Jaymzz> Thanks peeps!
13:33:01 <Venemo> #info Timur Kristóf, community member, developer
13:33:47 <lpr__> #info Philip, user & tjc
13:34:22 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla
13:34:40 <lpr__> please delay Qualcomm topic until end of this meeting...
13:34:49 <Jaymzz> One minute left :)
13:34:52 <lal> #info Swathilal, tjc member, well wisher, doesn't own a Jolla and first time here
13:34:57 <Jaymzz> Okay sure lpr__
13:35:32 <Jaymzz> we shall begin in a few seconds with the fist topic.
13:35:50 <Jaymzz> #topic Why Jolla shows Android apps for their promotion? (5 min, asked by: luca247 )
13:35:57 <Jaymzz> #info why everytime there is an event or a presentation jolla or other sailfish brands like intex are only showing android apps like whatsapp and not native ones like sailorgram or music library?
13:36:29 <Jaymzz> luca247 said please answer if he wasn't available, he will read the logs. Thanks!
13:37:29 <Jaymzz> Anyone? :)
13:38:02 <Venemo> guess someone from jolla should answer that
13:38:32 <Jaymzz> Veskuh or sledges m could anyone of you answer this? :) Not so much time left
13:38:55 <sledges> that reminds me of previous discussion about android apps in jolla store - they should be clearly separated to promote nativeness
13:39:02 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes left on this.
13:39:11 <veskuh> Jaymzz: well, events is more like comms area but I can give my view :)
13:39:28 <urjaman> i dont think anrdoid apps should even be in the jolla store ...
13:39:49 <JollaTgBot> <toxip> Irc relay bot fixed... Carry on :) (changing it to one way again)
13:40:00 <veskuh> I think in the beginning people were actually very curious on how well the ”must have” apps run on Jolla, since most people have not seen Jolla before
13:40:16 <Jaymzz> 1 minute :)
13:40:22 <veskuh> Now Jolla users know that they run quite well, but native apps are nicer
13:40:52 <veskuh> But in events and such most people still have not seen jolla devices before so its important to show that mainstream apps work on the device
13:41:00 <r0kk3rz> for people who have yet to try sailfish, how useful is it showing native apps?
13:41:12 <Jaymzz> We could try to push both of them!
13:41:25 <r0kk3rz> beyond a 'look APPS' glance at the store
13:41:26 <Jaymzz> I'll give this topic one more minute
13:41:35 <fravaccaro> both would be fair
13:41:50 <sledges> upstreams keep changing API (like facebook, or especially instagram - that broke recent development)
13:42:02 <sledges> so what native-mainstream apps could we promote?
13:42:03 <fravaccaro> but native apps would help in showing gestures and potential of native offerings
13:42:05 <veskuh> Jaymzz: make a note, I think you will be part of planning next events :)
13:42:22 <Jaymzz> Alright Veskuh , moving on to the next topic
13:42:23 <r0kk3rz> I guess showing off better examples of the Silica UI in use could be cool
13:42:27 <Jaymzz> #topic Permission to daemon and other forbidden components to the store (5 min, asked by: luca247 )
13:42:34 <Jaymzz> #info Having some great apps on openrepos that aren’t allowed on the store doesn’t make a lot of sense. Understanding that Jolla needs to have a secure store, but when are we going to have more and better apps on the store? When will the rules change/improve?
13:43:00 <Jaymzz> ( veskuh: note taken!  :) )
13:43:13 <Luca247> luca247 community member...sorry for being late :p
13:43:42 <Jaymzz> No problem, Luca247 , welcome! we are covering your second topic now
13:43:47 <lal> right on time
13:43:47 <urjaman> Luca247: we're at the daemon part now
13:44:07 <Luca247> yep...right in time...
13:44:10 <Luca247> so
13:44:19 <Jaymzz> 3 minutes left on this topic, anyone? :)
13:44:24 <Luca247> my question is simple
13:45:12 <Luca247> we have such great apps on openrepos like sailorgram but they are not permitted on the store because of daemons and other little things
13:45:22 <Luca247> why is that?
13:45:41 <veskuh> #info We have a very limited amount of people working on store QA at the moment
13:45:53 <sledges> someone from community drafted a daemon permission model design couple of years ago - it was needed because otherwise apps could wreak havoc; i can try digging it or that person out, or simply lay precedent that we'd need such design document/brainstorm again
13:46:11 <Venemo> I never quite understoof why the authors of those apps don't write their apps in a way that they'd be allowed
13:46:25 <veskuh> sledges: yes, good idea
13:46:29 <Jaymzz> 1 minute left, we could give it another extra minute if needed.
13:46:33 <sledges> Venemo: you'd want your telegram client from jolla store to fetch messages while in suspend ;)
13:46:43 <Luca247> sailorgram for example has the option to turn off the daemon
13:46:57 <r0kk3rz> Venemo: some of us cant be bothered to bend over backwards for harbour restrictions
13:46:58 <Venemo> sledges: the IRC app can work while the phone is suspended, can't it. so why couldn't the telegram client work too?
13:47:07 <sledges> but IM apps could go through telepathy integration instead
13:47:23 <Yaniel> IM apps *should* go through telepathy
13:47:35 <Jaymzz> going through the extra minute :)
13:47:43 <Yaniel> but AFAIK telepathy doesn't support some important things so nobody bothers
13:47:45 <sledges> but telepathy should then be reworked to allow all bells'n'whistles (images, voice recs)
13:47:58 <Luca247> daemons were an example anyway
13:48:11 <Luca247> there are lot other things not allowed in store
13:48:19 <r0kk3rz> i thought the major holdup was the UI for chat/text
13:48:20 <sledges> well, we allowed positioning (finally:)
13:48:28 <fravaccaro> harbour apps can't access to stuff like calendar events, can they?
13:48:36 <veskuh> We are doing some roadmapping this month and should evaluate again what improvements to Harbour QA and rules would be most useful and would not burden the QA too much
13:48:36 <sledges> but not location (i don't know the difference, or was it vice versa)
13:48:37 <r0kk3rz> and allowing accounts menu integration
13:48:49 <Jaymzz> Okay another extra minute would not hurt! it's going well still :)
13:49:09 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: 5min really isnt enough time anyway, 10min should be minimum
13:49:10 <sledges> #info Jolla is doing some roadmapping this month and should evaluate again what improvements to Harbour QA and rules would be most useful and would not burden the QA too much
13:49:22 * cybette late to the party and lurking
13:49:27 <Luca247> i perfectly understand jolla want a clean store to stay trouble free but hey we are all sailors at the end and apart from phonebook and patches we know apps don't harm the phone
13:49:32 <Jaymzz> that was the proposed time! But okay will make it 10 min instead.
13:49:36 <Luca247> :)
13:49:41 <Jaymzz> #info time changed to 10 min instead
13:49:45 <Jaymzz> 3 min left
13:50:25 <Venemo> Jaymzz: maybe we should revisit this once that roadmapping that sledges said is done
13:50:53 <Jaymzz> Venemo: sure! 2 min and then we'll move on. Any final comments sledges or veskuh?
13:51:01 <sledges> Venemo: i'll ask Dax (author of SailorGram) what prevents entering harbour, and suggest to look at communi (irc for sfos) sources for daemonology :)
13:51:09 <veskuh> Put what would your input be to planning?
13:51:20 <kimmoli> looking code, there are custom notifications too
13:51:27 <r0kk3rz> Venemo: has this not been a recurring topic for years? :P
13:51:28 <kimmoli> which afaiu are also nono
13:51:31 <Venemo> we don't have any daemon, the app runs in the background and it just works.
13:51:46 <Venemo> r0kk3rz: I haven't heard about this problem yet
13:51:48 <Yaniel> the app has to stay open though
13:51:58 <Venemo> yeah, sure
13:52:02 <Yaniel> which may or may not happen *cough*oomkiller*cough*
13:52:04 <Venemo> it has to stay open
13:52:23 <Jaymzz> Alright moving on people, we will get back to this topic in a latr meeting!
13:52:29 <Jaymzz> #topic Upgrading Qt to latest upstream (5-10 minutes, asked by Venemo )
13:52:37 <Jaymzz> #info 1) Is it among the plans to upgrade to the latest upstream Qt version? 2) What are the main roadblocks to upgrading Qt? 3) How can the community help with this?
13:52:49 <Venemo> yeah
13:52:58 <Jaymzz> #info given the previous topic's experience we'll give this 10 min as well.
13:53:30 <Venemo> Qt is binary compatible between the same major release, so I don't see why it isn't updated regularly
13:53:54 <Venemo> unless jolla uses some private API, it should be safe
13:54:00 <w00t> Venemo: because if you want to get something at product quality, you can't just grab the latest release, compile it, and call it a day
13:54:22 <Venemo> w00t: yeah, that's why I asked. :) I'm interested in knowing more.
13:54:26 <veskuh> #info Yes, we want to upgrade Qt. Our previous upgrade took a lot of time and effort so this time we have be careful.
13:54:26 * sledges was about to write: "and may the w00t be with us" :))
13:54:41 <Jaymzz> lol :D
13:54:48 <w00t> i don't remember the exact amount of work now, as it was a while ago -- but the current release has something like 100-200 backports on top of the last "official" 5.2 release (plus a whole lot more inside qtqml that i can't even count)
13:55:12 <w00t> it was a cumulative big pile of work to get it done and in good shape
13:55:14 <Venemo> so, why don't you run 5.6? what exactly is blocking you from just using it?
13:55:23 <w00t> that having been said, i'd like to see it move to something newer
13:55:46 <w00t> old releases lack things (duh), but they also have a lot of bugs that need workarounds (bad), and worse still - security holes
13:55:55 <Venemo> yeah, that's why I asked
13:55:57 <r0kk3rz> w00t: is there anything the community can do to help this situation?
13:56:12 <w00t> r0kk3rz: not sure..
13:56:20 <Venemo> I'd be especially interested in using the Qt Bluetooth module, especially the BTLE API
13:56:26 <sledges> make mer/glacier boot?
13:56:29 <Venemo> but that's not available on Sailfish
13:56:42 <veskuh> Venemo: for that we need Bluez update too
13:56:44 <w00t> i started taking a look at 5.5 last year, and it didn't look like getting things at least compiling was going to be awfully difficult, but the effort that will need to go on top of that is unknown
13:56:49 <w00t> i think i'd aim at 5.6 now
13:56:54 <Venemo> veskuh: should work with your version, IIRC
13:57:10 <w00t> it should be around for quite a long time, which is good news
13:57:22 <w00t> sledges: that might be something to think about indeed
13:57:23 <toxxip> sorry I'm late... Community. (mostly lurking)
13:57:33 <Venemo> veskuh: the docs say it works with bluez 4.x/5.x
13:57:42 <Venemo> IIRC you guys have 4.x, right?
13:57:48 <sledges> nnah :P
13:57:52 <w00t> 5.2 (plus bits of 5.4, 5.3, ...)
13:57:56 <w00t> it's a bit of a mix
13:58:00 <Venemo> talking about bluez
13:58:04 <w00t> oh. :)
13:58:08 <sledges> i understood too late ;)
13:58:09 <veskuh> Venemo: yes, but we don’t have BTLE on BlueZ 4 at the moment
13:58:36 <Venemo> what's blocking it?
13:58:44 <sledges> #info community could bring qt 5.6 to mer/nemo/glacier , via :next repos/branches ?
13:59:22 <sledges> (same is being done with aarch64 by ghosalmartin the porter ;))
13:59:25 <w00t> i think this is soemthing that we should really consider sticking on the roadmap, or at least discussing (veskuh)
13:59:48 <w00t> even if nothing else, the security aspect of sticking with stuff this old is not a good idea
14:00:00 <veskuh> w00t: yes, it is starting to be right time soon
14:00:01 <Venemo> w00t: since you brought up the roadmap... when was the last time anyone updated it?
14:00:36 <Venemo> I mean this: https://sailfishos.org/developmentroadmap/
14:00:39 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes left on this topic!
14:01:12 <toxxip> moving to the LTS release 5.6 would be a wise idea
14:01:41 <Venemo> the reason I brought up Qt at all is because
14:01:44 <Jaymzz> 1min and we'll move on
14:01:48 <w00t> Venemo: i don't know the answer to that, but probably not for some time
14:01:54 <ghosalmartin> plus blink :P
14:02:05 <w00t> oh
14:02:08 <w00t> it's on therE: "Last updated: September 9, 2015"
14:02:21 <Venemo> SFOS is a Qt-based platform, so how come that I can use Qt 5.x (x=latest) on all major platforms (competitors), but not on a platform that is actually Qt-based
14:02:27 <Venemo> to me, that's absurd
14:02:35 <toxxip> the community is really drooling for the new webkit whatever it was called
14:02:54 <Jaymzz> alright shall we move on or extra time is needed?
14:02:54 <toxxip> on 5.6
14:03:11 <nh1402_work> qtwebengine?
14:03:18 <Venemo> toxxip: the qtwebengine thing?
14:03:30 <toxxip> nh1402_work: i think it was that yeah
14:03:37 <Jaymzz> Ok moving on to the next topic :)
14:03:41 <Jaymzz> #topic Built-in icon pack support (5-10 minutes, asked by fravaccaro )
14:03:47 <Jaymzz> #info Built-in icon pack support some details about the topic: Folder trees, conf files and dconf keys are already in place for a native, built-in icon packs support for Sailfish OS. Albeit non essential in the current situation, I would like to know if there's any plan to add the missing bits in the QML files.
14:04:03 <Jaymzz> #info We'll give this one 10 minutes as well
14:04:28 <Venemo> okay, but shouldn't there be some wrap up or conclusion to the previous topic first?
14:05:14 <Jaymzz> I asked if more time is needed no one replied so I thought that means moving on :) Let's get back to this by the end of the meeting Venemo ?
14:05:17 <r0kk3rz> Venemo: conclusion is its a big task with little the community can do to progress
14:05:39 <veskuh> also yes, we plan to do it, but timing is not clear yet
14:05:43 <Venemo> okay.
14:05:44 <Jaymzz> fravaccaro: it's your topic :) feel free to elaborate
14:06:19 <fravaccaro> well, there's not that much to add, digging I noticed there are some bits already in place for a proper icon packs support
14:06:40 <fravaccaro> it's not essential, but, well, it would be nice to have some mmore customization on the platform :)
14:06:46 <kimmoli> icon packs = 3rd party icons?
14:06:49 <r0kk3rz> fravaccaro: you mean different icon themes?
14:07:13 <fravaccaro> yup
14:07:57 <fravaccaro> in /usr/share/icons there's the hicolor folder with a xdg-compliant index.theme file
14:08:24 <veskuh> #info With the new customer projects we are having, a bit more configuration options such as theming has been requested. Icon pack support might be one of the things we want to support.
14:08:34 <kimmoli> thats the application icons then
14:08:36 <fravaccaro> the only showstopper seems to be jolla icons hard-coded into the qml files
14:08:58 <fravaccaro> also for /usr/share/themes , which contains jolla default apps
14:09:48 <kimmoli> there was some change on 2.0.1. jolla ambient become sailfish default (iirc)
14:10:10 <fravaccaro> with this patch https://raw.githubusercontent.com/fravaccaro/themepacksupport-sailfishos/robust_icons/harbour-themepacksupport/usr/share/patchmanager/themepack-custom_icondirs/unified_diff.patch and changing a dconf key sailfish os can use different icon packs, both for default and native apps
14:10:22 <fravaccaro> correct :)
14:11:13 <Jaymzz> 3 minutes left, time to begin concluding :)
14:11:14 <sledges> #link https://raw.githubusercontent.com/fravaccaro/themepacksupport-sailfishos/robust_icons/harbour-themepacksupport/usr/share/patchmanager/themepack-custom_icondirs/unified_diff.patch
14:12:01 <sledges> i guess this is on of those few places jolla will need to revisit once implementing more custom icon set requests
14:12:11 <sledges> i.e. remove hardcodes
14:13:05 <Jaymzz> 1 minute and moving on :)
14:13:16 <sledges> thanks for the find, fravaccaro!
14:13:49 <fravaccaro> so is there a chance to see it implemented, at some point in the future?
14:14:04 <fravaccaro> @sledges my pleasure :)
14:14:11 <sledges> veskuh said above with #info ;)
14:14:38 <Jaymzz> Alright then, moving on to the last topic for the day
14:14:44 <Jaymzz> #topic Upgrading Jolla 1 Android drivers to Android 4.4 level (15 mins, asked by lpr__ )
14:14:48 <fravaccaro> ouch, I missed it :D
14:14:56 <Jaymzz> #info some critical bugs in qualcomm drivers were discovered and fixed drivers are only available on android-4.4.4 level, so an upgrade is needed
14:14:56 <lpr__> alright
14:15:03 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/132122/upgrade-qualcomm-android-drivers-to-kitkat44-level/
14:15:19 <fravaccaro> thanks for the answer veskuh
14:15:34 <Jaymzz> 15 minutes on this topic starts now :)
14:16:31 <lpr__> it seems there are no different drivers and galaxy S4 mini uses same drivers as Jolla1, am I right?
14:17:03 <lpr__> they just need an update...
14:18:32 <lpr__> drivers and kernel seem to be android api 17 to 19 capable...
14:19:09 <sledges> we had community port of nexus 4 on jellybeans, that has successfully went onto kitkat, but that's the whole underlying adaptations that had to change (and libhybris bits on top)
14:19:22 <Venemo> would Qualcomm even supply the updated bits to jolla?
14:19:31 <sledges> isn't jolla 4.1, which is api level 16 ?
14:19:53 <lpr__> sledges: but that's a software thing
14:19:55 <sledges> Stskeeps/Sage_ could have more insight on the scope of this ^^
14:20:39 <lpr__> the driver/kernel combo has to be api>16
14:20:47 <sledges> lpr__: it is software thing yes
14:21:14 <sledges> on nexus 5 everyone has been swapping sensors .so file around from different versions to fight battery drain bug, that seemed to work
14:21:25 <sledges> so your statement is valid: 16:18 < lpr__> drivers and kernel seem to be android api 17 to 19 capable...
14:21:33 <lpr__> so updating drivers must be possible
14:21:42 <sledges> but only if jolla was api level >=17
14:22:01 <lpr__> no, aliendalvik is a different thing...
14:22:02 <veskuh> Venemo: I think for Jolla1 the drivers were part of ODM delivery, so any update we’d need to work with them
14:22:06 <sledges> i'm not sure it is (if it's so, then it's only swapping the driver bit, without world's rebuild)
14:22:10 <nh1402_work> sledges: and a rebase to 12.1 has also been done for the nexus 5
14:22:16 <sledges> lpr__: i'm not talking about aliendalvik
14:22:36 <lpr__> ok
14:22:58 <lpr__> galaxy S4 never had 4.1 level
14:23:00 <nh1402_work> which provided rock solid bluetooth connection compared to the 11 base before.
14:23:01 <urjaman> I'd like to see both updated to 4.4 level (drivers and dalvik) :P
14:23:25 <lpr__> so i doubt the low level stack has...
14:23:54 <sledges> in low level you'd be talking more about abi compatibility, not api
14:23:55 <dr_gogeta86> sledges, without a flasher public avaiable flasher thinkering is scaring
14:23:59 <sledges> but yea, needs looking into
14:24:41 <sledges> dr_gogeta86: i don't suggest you tinker with those:)) yet swapping a wlan.ko should be doable for a test, kernel sources are available
14:25:40 <dr_gogeta86> I still dream an ext4 fs based image for sbj
14:25:48 <lpr__> ok ok...
14:25:48 <lpr__> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history#Android_4.2.E2.80.934.2.2_Jelly_Bean_.28API_level_17.29
14:25:49 <lpr__> 4.2 came out with 3.4 kernel
14:25:58 <r0kk3rz> undefined scope, ODM help needed, limited internal resources, aging device. Id be filing this in the "soon" category
14:26:05 <Jaymzz> #link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history#Android_4.2.E2.80.934.2.2_Jelly_Bean_.28API_level_17.29
14:26:29 <dr_gogeta86> r0kk3rz, for the record sbj aged better then most sammy and thcs ...
14:26:30 <nh1402_work> lpr__: 4.4 is also 3.4
14:26:37 <lpr__> yes
14:26:49 <lpr__> but 4.1.3 is not
14:27:04 <r0kk3rz> dr_gogeta86: sure, but now jolla have new devices to worry about, where as before they didnt
14:27:05 <lpr__> 4.1.2 sorry
14:27:16 <nh1402_work> but switch the numbers in the kernel version around and you still won't get the latest linux kernel!
14:27:34 <Venemo> what new devices?
14:27:39 <Venemo> are there gonna be new devices?
14:27:47 <lpr__> i'm not asking new kernel...
14:28:15 <r0kk3rz> Venemo: tablet, intex, turing...
14:28:20 <nh1402_work> Venemo: I think they're referring to Intex Aqua fish, Turing phone and mi-phone
14:28:27 <lpr__> tablet = intel
14:28:30 <sledges> and a secret device
14:28:40 <sledges> (from press release)
14:28:51 <Jaymzz> sledges: sneaky :3
14:29:06 <lpr__> intex semms to have different hw, snapdragon212
14:29:27 <kimmoli> sledges: you'll need to dodge now
14:29:35 <Venemo> r0kk3rz: is there a new tablet?
14:29:53 <Jaymzz> Time to think about a conclusion guys! 1 minute left out of 15 :) Could do with a little extra minute.
14:29:58 <nh1402_work> I think he was referring to the Jolla Tablet
14:30:00 <lal> there shouldn't be!
14:30:16 <r0kk3rz> Venemo: jolla tablets were delivered, and will need supporting, even if its <1000
14:30:27 <lpr__> topic is JOLLA1
14:30:44 <kimmoli> #blame sledges
14:31:05 <sledges> #info Jolla will look at the scope of this task
14:31:22 <r0kk3rz> lpr__: sorry, i derailed that slightly, point was i dont see it happening due to other devices coming on the market
14:31:22 <dr_gogeta86> miphone ?
14:31:56 <Jaymzz> Alright then, with sledges saying that I think this topic is coming to an end too! Anything more? or shall we end the meeting?
14:31:58 <nh1402_work> That was the african licensee was it not
14:32:19 <nh1402_work> that actually had a confirmed release quarter of Q2 2016 iirc
14:32:22 <sledges> Jaymzz: don't end before #AOB and #next-meeting topics :)
14:32:52 <Jaymzz> sledges : right :D
14:32:53 <lpr__> at the moment there are no other devices available in EU
14:33:34 <schmittlauch> Jaymzz: Is there a general discussion coming?
14:33:37 <r0kk3rz> lpr__: regulatory domains aside, they're still taking up internal resources
14:34:01 <lpr__> ok that points for new features
14:34:13 <lpr__> not for security issues
14:34:35 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (10 minutes)
14:34:44 <schmittlauch> lpr__: cough glibc cough
14:34:56 <Jaymzz> schmittlauch there :)
14:35:02 <lpr__> tigeli: what is stagefright doing?
14:35:31 <nh1402_work> scaring people off the stage by the sounds of it
14:35:39 <lpr__> schmittlauch: ?
14:36:52 <r0kk3rz> sledges: so, the mystery is a device then? since the PR says 'device related'
14:36:53 <lpr__> schmittlauch: at least most scaring cve fixed there...
14:37:41 <Yaniel> r0kk3rz: or a device EOL for sbj...
14:37:44 <toxip_> sledges: dodge this!
14:37:53 <Yaniel> that'd be device-related too :P
14:38:08 <schmittlauch> A question that came to my mind after the harbour-and-daemon thing: Currently Jolla doesn't seem to have a good security/permissons model like granting some applications access to contacts, position, etc. while preventing others from access.
14:38:18 <lpr__> tigeli: the list of stagefright cve's is growing fast, it seems
14:38:19 <toxip_> Yaniel: that'd be just evil :D
14:38:32 <schmittlauch> lpr__: Yeah, but i took a while. And it's currently only out for early-access
14:38:32 <sledges> r0kk3rz: it's the whole programme ;P
14:38:39 <nh1402_work> schmittlauch: that was answered in the last meeting, I think
14:38:58 <a1kar> Any (un)official videos on the Turing phone with SailfishOS?
14:39:05 <r0kk3rz> sledges: i will eagerly await the announcement then :)
14:39:16 <schmittlauch> It seems the current security model is based on not letting bad apps pass through harbour
14:39:26 <stephg> o/ sorry I'm late
14:39:36 <schmittlauch> nh1402_work (IRC): you mean the permissons thing?
14:39:37 <sledges> boo stephg :D
14:39:44 <r0kk3rz> schmittlauch: that about sums it up yes
14:40:06 <stephg> sledges: busy day :(
14:40:15 <sledges> stephg: tell me about it :D
14:40:20 <sledges> also fine weather!
14:40:23 <lpr__> unobtainium, isn't that the thing with which you can go to the core... ?
14:40:25 <sledges> worst combo
14:40:28 <stephg> sledges ditto!
14:40:44 <nh1402_work> schmittlauch: yes
14:41:09 <schmittlauch> Are there plans to provide a 'real' permission model, maybe as part of the sailfish-secure collaboration? Because the current situation is a bad joke, especially when advertising sfos with "security!!!"
14:41:45 <schmittlauch> nh1402_work (IRC): Ok, I then have to go through the logs. Dont't remeber having seen that in last meeting
14:41:49 <veskuh> schmittlauch: Yeah, we know we need to improve on that, and there has been prototyping work done earlier but we do need to revisit those plans too since people changed and strategy is also a bit different now
14:42:41 <urjaman> do it right, i dont think the android "i'll use all of these or you cant install me" kind of model is useless
14:42:52 <urjaman> the list can be a mile long and nobody bothers with them
14:43:01 <lpr__> schmittlauch: permission model of google play should also not let bad apps through..
14:43:02 <nh1402_work> urjaman: that changed with Marshmallow
14:43:17 <schmittlauch> veskuh: Ok, I'm happy if it lands on the roadmap
14:43:20 <Jaymzz> #info Jolla will revisit security plans for Sailfish OS since the changed strategy
14:43:25 <urjaman> *i think the android ... model i useless
14:43:29 <urjaman> *is
14:44:03 <kimmoli> there are some threads in tjc about this topic, e.g. https://together.jolla.com/question/5516/what-kind-of-security-model-does-jolla-have/
14:44:13 <r0kk3rz> urjaman: its not useless, just people do strange things like install apps with large pervasive permissions lists anyway
14:44:15 <schmittlauch> urjaman (IRC): Current Android versions provide a more fine-grained control, similar to what iOS does: Apps still have to work when being denied some permissons
14:44:21 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/5516/what-kind-of-security-model-does-jolla-have/
14:44:49 <Jaymzz> Shall we move on? :) Or is there more?
14:44:54 <schmittlauch> kimmoli: I think there's a thread in TJC for nearly every important topic - and it hasn't been updated since 2014 (;
14:45:14 <kimmoli> yeah that was gravedigging...
14:45:26 <kimmoli> but the situation hasnt changed since day0
14:45:43 <urjaman> i btw just answered one of my own questions in tjc since i happened to go there for the 4.4 thing :P
14:45:55 <Jaymzz> schmittlauch : TJC will be taken care of as soon as wl have a bit more man power. I'm currently visiting there quite frequently but it needs more effort
14:45:55 <kimmoli> but you get necromancer-badge when answering those :P
14:46:15 <schmittlauch> An interesting idea of cyanogenmod is instead of denying permissions they allow giving fake data like fake position, an empty address book, etc.
14:46:18 <urjaman> i already have that
14:46:41 <kimmoli> 8
14:46:42 <Jaymzz> Alright people time is running out!
14:46:45 <urjaman> (not an empty address book, the necromancer badge)
14:47:09 <Jaymzz> we shall move on to the next topic in a few seconds
14:47:33 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting date
14:47:34 <schmittlauch> Jaymzz: Great. Nevertheless I think that this won't help resolving those really old, really big issues
14:47:52 <Jaymzz> #info I propose 19th of May , 13:30 UTC.
14:47:58 <Jaymzz> does that work for everyone?
14:48:09 <Jaymzz> schmittlauch Yeah I understand!
14:48:12 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: +1
14:48:23 <Luca247> Jaymzz: good for me :)
14:49:03 <Jaymzz> Please do not forget to propose your topics here on TJC https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
14:49:27 <Jaymzz> if everyone is okay with the next date, we can end the meeting :)
14:50:12 <Jaymzz> Alrigh seems everyone is okay with zero complaints!
14:50:27 <Jaymzz> Thanks all for attending, I'll email the minutes as usual :)
14:50:40 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting