13:30:24 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 2nd of June 2016
13:30:24 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Jun  2 13:30:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
13:30:24 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:30:34 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007150.html
13:30:42 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect.
13:30:56 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes) . Please prefix your name/handle with # info
13:31:16 <DylanVanAssche> #info DylanVanAssche
13:31:28 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Community Manager at your service :)
13:31:41 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, tohs, apps, ports, et.al. just add beer
13:31:50 <veskuh> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager at Jolla
13:31:52 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community
13:31:53 <c_la> #info Claudio Campeggi, community member
13:32:03 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc, developer
13:32:04 <sledges> r0kk3rz: bwhahahaha!
13:32:12 <gerbick> #info William McBee, UX Designer, former programmer (kicked the habit), community member
13:32:13 <kuca247> luca247, community member
13:32:18 <MSameer> #info Mohammed Hassan, Jolla, larking
13:32:23 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, HW adaptation and l10n @ jolla
13:32:31 <dr_gogeta86> #info Fabio isgò , community ... ported phone user
13:32:37 <dr_gogeta86> *Isgrò
13:32:52 <MSameer> #info Mohammed Hassan, Jolla (convert coffee to code), larking
13:33:08 <dcaliste> #info Damien, community, coding here and there
13:33:54 <oniongarlic> #info Kaj-Michael Lang, Community, Independent developer (Y-Radio, Onki)
13:34:27 <eekkelund> #info Eetu Kahelin, Community, Maemo Community Council
13:34:33 <citylight2> citylights2, community member
13:35:15 <chem|st> #info R. Schiller, Community, Maemo Community Board, TJC TMO
13:35:41 <Jaymzz> Quite a handful this time :) Moving on to the next topic in 1 minute, get your intros done guys :)
13:35:46 <gaelic> #info gaelic, Enthusiast, User, Programmer
13:35:59 <nh1402_work> #info nh1402, Community, sfdroid co-founder
13:36:37 <Jaymzz> And moving on ->
13:36:39 <ballock> #info Bolesław Tokarski, community, porter
13:36:43 <Jaymzz> #topic Bluetooth tethering – status of the fix (20 minutes, asked by: c_la)
13:36:55 <Jaymzz> #info The 1.1.7 update broke bluetooth tethering. Some work was done by sailors but to my understanding no real fix has been made.
13:38:12 <c_la> Chris Adams gave some insights on the email sent to the mailing list, is anyone from jolla that is here able to get more details about it?
13:39:34 <veskuh> Chris’ mail: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007151.html
13:39:59 <Jaymzz> #link https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007151.html
13:40:33 <sledges> kimmoli know bluetooth ;)
13:40:45 <SfietKonstantinW> :)
13:40:46 <SfietKonstantinW> hello
13:41:01 <kimmoli> que?
13:41:09 <veskuh> #info This is not high Jolla’s priorities. We have connectivity issues and new hardware seem to always keep our limited connectivity guys busy.
13:41:46 <veskuh> #info The related components should all be open source so any contribution would be welcome though.
13:43:06 <c_la> @veskuh is the thethering bug open at jolla visible from outside? TO uinderstand what has been discovered
13:44:31 <c_la> what about the new bluez 5? Any timing about its implementation?
13:44:34 <sledges> at least this one is
13:44:36 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/107787/11728-bluetooth-tethering-via-connman-no-longer-supported/
13:44:41 * lbt is late
13:44:41 <sledges> with already some research
13:44:47 <sledges> o/ lbt
13:45:03 <Jaymzz> lbt o/
13:45:33 <r0kk3rz> is there much usecase for BT tethering instead of wifi hotspotting?
13:45:43 <veskuh> c_la: No public bug, but TJC article has pretty much same info as internal bug
13:46:05 <veskuh> c_la: BlueZ 5 is ongoing work and hopefully lands sometime this summer
13:46:07 <Thaodan> r0kk3rz: keeping the hotspot hidden for others?
13:46:19 <Thaodan> maybe wifi issues in generall
13:46:20 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: how easy it is today to bridge nemo bugtrcker with jolla one ?
13:46:33 <SfietKonstantinW> for example discussing this bug on nemo bz should be nice
13:46:38 <SfietKonstantinW> (maybe nicer than on tjc ?)
13:46:39 <SfietKonstantinW> don't kno
13:46:40 <SfietKonstantinW> w
13:46:47 <phlixi_> Thaodan: hiding  a wlan AP is useless... just use a passphrase
13:46:50 <r0kk3rz> SfietKonstantinW: +1
13:47:01 <c_la> @veskuh so no more work after last update on march 12?
13:47:11 <veskuh> For individual bugs it is not an issue, we now have many times linked bug from mer bugzilla to internal one.
13:47:24 <Jaymzz> 10 minutes passed, 10 minutes remaining!
13:47:44 <veskuh> c_la: yes
13:47:49 <lbt> SfietKonstantinW: in general the link is from Mer bugtracker to Jolla bz. That's an active WIP and jolla are using the Mer bz a lot more nowadays
13:47:59 <Thaodan> phlixi_:  this is not what I meant. I mean sometimes there are to many wlans in your area and your connection can be bad
13:48:07 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: maybe this one is worth being tracked on mer bz ?
13:48:07 <c_la> @rokk3rz in my (and other community members) case the tomtom GO devices: they get live traffic over bt tehering
13:48:36 <veskuh> The comments look like its connman issue so BlueZ 5 update would not help
13:48:38 <r0kk3rz> c_la: ah cool, i guess they dont do wifi or usb
13:48:45 <c_la> @SfietKonstantinW I searched on mer bugzilla but no mention of bt tethering
13:49:05 <c_la> @rokk3rs right, only bluetooth :)
13:49:14 <c_la> @rokk3rz right, only bluetooth :)
13:49:17 <stephg> oops.sorry I'm late
13:49:30 <Jaymzz> stephg o/
13:49:46 * sledges tickles stephg
13:50:27 * stephg giggles
13:50:32 <Jaymzz> lol :D
13:50:44 <r0kk3rz> keep it pg guys :P
13:50:59 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes remaining!
13:51:40 <veskuh> SfietKonstantinW: Yes, as far as I understood its issue in Mer and anyone from community could try to fix it.
13:52:04 <c_la> @veskuh if it's conman and I would help to look into it, would Jolla devs give me some help how to debug it?
13:52:19 <sledges> SfietKonstantinW: r0kk3rz: it's already on TJC so, why pushing the crowd to use something else all of a sudden? (yes, we have mer-jolla bz bridging in place)
13:52:36 <SfietKonstantinW> sledges: because bz is made for devs ? :)
13:52:49 <sledges> SfietKonstantinW: yes so let's split tjc? :P
13:52:58 * sledges flame warning ;)
13:53:17 <c_la> at least to get started
13:53:20 <SfietKonstantinW> sledges: IMO I see TJC as a crowdsourced place to report bugs. When something is bring to devs, it is bridged to a bz (Jolla one). When it is a Mer bug it could be bridged to a public bz
13:53:27 <r0kk3rz> sledges: it makes sense for middleware bugs to go on middleware project? sure users dont need to know that so TJC is a good catchall
13:53:30 <SfietKonstantinW> and when the bz ticket is closed, the TJC post is also closed
13:53:35 <SfietKonstantinW> anyway, that's my vision
13:53:38 <SfietKonstantinW> r0kk3rz: +1
13:53:54 <sledges> tjc-merbz bridging...
13:54:04 <lbt> once the bug moves from device functionality to specific issues in source code then it's sensible to open a Mer bug. TJC shouldn't really mention packages and src - Mer bz shouldn't be about device level functional bugs
13:54:06 <sledges> (note tjc-jollabz bridging is also in place already as you know :D)
13:54:32 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes remaining :) let's begin wrapping this one up
13:54:33 <lbt> (like SfietKonstantinW says)
13:54:33 <SfietKonstantinW> :)
13:54:41 <SfietKonstantinW> +1 lbt
13:55:00 <sledges> it's free world/speech;) no-one prevents you from creating a bug in mer bz, but somehow no-one has
13:55:14 <sledges> in 9 months time:)
13:55:25 <kimmoli> no dev interested on this?
13:55:25 <veskuh> c_la: Well, of course you can ask at IRC how to get started, but we do not have many connman experts around and it may be quite tricky to fix and even get started.
13:55:49 <sledges> ok, then let an interested dev create a bug and pave a great example way ;)
13:55:52 <Jaymzz> 1 min remains
13:56:06 <kimmoli> fallback device to pre 1.1.7 and diff?
13:56:08 <lbt> sledges: +1
13:56:10 <c_la> veskuh: do you tink it's tricky to fix? in the moofang answer on TJC I read "not difficult to change the code in the problematic place but should understand why it was written as it is in the first place. "
13:56:14 <r0kk3rz> kimmoli: you're it kimmo, its all yours :)
13:56:27 <kimmoli> r0kk3rz: plöö
13:56:43 <c_la> so it seems an easy fix but did not want to go forward because he wanted to dig deeper on the cause
13:56:55 <dr_gogeta86> is still in 2016 connman an advantage ?
13:56:56 <sledges> c_la: dit ;)
13:57:15 <Jaymzz> Alright, are we done with this? moving on in a few seconds
13:57:18 <c_la> sledges: dit?
13:57:23 <dr_gogeta86> even wifi bugs aren't few
13:57:24 <sledges> c_la: do-it-together
13:57:30 <kimmoli> do it tomorrow
13:57:36 <sledges> lol
13:57:46 <sledges> do it tonight :P
13:57:46 <c_la> well I woukld be fine getting a 1.1.7 image and sticking to it :)
13:57:58 <sledges> c_la: in 2016? ;)
13:58:24 <c_la> sledges: why not? :) it worked.. after all :)
13:58:41 <Jaymzz> Alright, moving on ->
13:58:42 <c_la> Jamyzz: thanks, we can move on
13:58:42 <sledges> and on this bombshell, Jaymzz time to move on:)
13:58:48 <Jaymzz> #topic 2016 roadmap (15 minutes, asked by: c_la)
13:58:55 <Jaymzz> #info It's June, we're almost halfway through the year, but no roadmap has been published. Will there be a 2016 roadmap? What are the roadblocks to release it?
13:59:34 <pavi> diificult question
13:59:43 <c_la> Jamyzz you mentioned one month ago, just as you joined jolla, that a rodmap was being drafted
13:59:53 <Jaymzz> #info I give a little extra time to each topic since one of the topics were deleted from TJC before the meeting.
14:00:25 <Jaymzz> c_la that was regarding the Sailfish OS website right?
14:00:39 <c_la> what is its status and when we should expect to have it released?
14:01:21 <c_la> Jamyzz: you wrote it on TJC, let me pick the link
14:01:38 <Jaymzz> We were mostly waiting for the Community Program to become public, after dealing with the event and also the responsibilities related to the program, I will take care of the website as soon as I have the green light
14:01:53 <Jaymzz> c_la: I know what I said :)
14:01:59 <sledges> Jaymzz: i think c_la means https://sailfishos.org/developmentroadmap/
14:02:12 <Jaymzz> Yes that's what I think he means too!
14:02:16 <sledges> (and high level https://sailfishos.org/roadmap/ )
14:02:38 <sledges> ok, got confused about "of the website" bit :P
14:02:47 <c_la> https://together.jolla.com/question/115416/request-for-roadmap-2016-and-a-huge-thanks-for-the-earlier/
14:03:07 <Jaymzz> I will update that as soon as I have the green light. At this moment we're mostly busy with the Community Device Program :)
14:03:20 <Jaymzz> sledges: Yeah couldn't think of the link for a sec xD
14:03:41 <sledges> cool!
14:03:49 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: typically this was updated after an interation planning meeting @ jolla. but i guess you guys have been busy doing rather than planning
14:03:50 <veskuh> Highlevel roadmap is something we maybe can do. The detailed roadmap is nowadays more problematic since we do a lot of work for client requirements
14:03:54 <c_la> Jamyzz thanks for the answer, we can move on then
14:04:29 <Jaymzz> #info Highlevel roadmap is something we maybe can do. The detailed roadmap is nowadays more problematic since we do a lot of work for client requirements
14:04:31 <r0kk3rz> veskuh: ah the wonders of the NDA
14:05:21 <sledges> use new strings dump in pootle as short-term roadmap ;P (or early release warning taster if you wanna call it :))
14:05:27 <veskuh> r0kk3rz: yep, and yes we’ve not had that many planning meetings as we’ve been so busy with Intex, Jolla C and others
14:05:28 <c_la> veskuh: Jamyzz: high level is better than nothing :)
14:05:47 <Jaymzz> #info the reply I gave on TJC pointed to the now-revealed community device program. we have now released that and are busy "doing" what's related to it. I (Jaymzz) will try my best to push the updates for the roadmap as soon as we're a little less busy on the Community Device Program
14:05:49 <kimmoli> quarter resolution?
14:06:26 <Jaymzz> c_la: So, shall we move on then? Hopefully you got the answer :)
14:06:47 <c_la> Jamyzz: definitely, we can move on
14:06:53 <Jaymzz> #topic Show notes of contact [Open source contact app?] (15 minutes, asked by: c_la)
14:06:53 <c_la> thank you for that
14:07:00 <Jaymzz> #info the feature request to show and edit contact notes is one of the most voted on TJC, but still no efforts seems to be made. Is Jolla planning to fix it? If not, how can the community help it? opensource contacts app may be an alternative? Remember that contact notes are already saved in contact database, they simply are not displayed
14:07:10 <Jaymzz> c_la : Anytime :)
14:07:56 <chem|st> Jaymzz: would be nice of you to refer links in the minutes with #link
14:08:08 <chem|st> bot does that for you
14:08:39 <Jaymzz> chem|st: Yes, will do, forgot to do with the last two ones! Sorry
14:08:49 <veskuh> Chris’ email gives a good picture on what happened on this feature.
14:09:09 <sledges> #link https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007151.html
14:09:44 <chem|st> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/7509/
14:10:14 <chem|st> question here is "one of the most voted" 140 is not most voted, the question is misleading
14:10:55 <c_la> Chris said in the email that's a tricky implementation because there may be multiple notes, I thought that as contacts app already manages multiple phone numbers, Addresses, etc would be easier
14:11:12 <c_la> chem|st you're right I remembered more votes to it
14:11:26 <sledges> #info ^^ Chris’ email gives a good picture on what happened on this feature.
14:11:43 <chem|st> it is an important feature in business env, just like a hardware keyboard!
14:12:26 <veskuh> #Info At the moment we are not really adding many features to apps as we are mostly busy with other stuff (new HW, couple of key features, mw updates, ..)
14:12:51 <chem|st> close to none of the features requested for People got implemented yet, even basic features still missing
14:13:28 <chem|st> as this is a general problem with core apps, if Jolla does not have the manpower to work on them, opensource them please
14:13:51 <c_la> can peoplemapp be opne sourced to make community help the development?
14:14:02 <c_la> people app*
14:14:10 <r0kk3rz> at least then when nobody develops for it you can shift the blame :)
14:14:13 <c_la> i.e. the contacts app
14:15:09 <c_la> rokk3rz: well my thought is to set a bounty and the developer who implements it gets the money
14:15:21 <c_la> if it gets opensourced
14:15:35 <chem|st> c_la: it is a lot more attached than just that some of it already foss
14:16:03 <chem|st> but the gui is the bottleneck closed bit
14:16:04 <veskuh> c_la: Yes, if we get approval for open sourcing contacs app open sourcing shouldn’t be a problem
14:16:54 <Jaymzz> #info if we get approval for open sourcing contacs app open sourcing shouldn’t be a problem
14:16:54 <c_la> veskuh: the open sourcin of it has already been submitted for approval?
14:17:03 <c_la> sourcing*
14:17:08 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes left :)
14:17:24 <r0kk3rz> c_la: there has been a wider open-sourcing proposal to the board ongoing for a number of months now
14:17:27 <veskuh> c_la: We are working on proposal for the company board.
14:17:30 <chem|st> c_la: stakeholders are scared of foss'ing
14:18:00 <veskuh> It needs to be well prepared since board naturally is more business oriented group
14:18:20 <c_la> rokk3rz: veskuh: chem|st: thank you
14:18:42 <c_la> Jamyzz we can move on
14:19:14 <Jaymzz> Alright then!
14:19:32 <Jaymzz> #topic API access to calendar (15 minutes, asked by: c_la)
14:19:34 <phlixi_> the board should mind, that the core apps right now are minimal, and if there is no resources to further develop them, whats the point in not open them up?
14:19:37 <chem|st> from my point of view, it can all stay closed, as long as you have the manpower to handle requests, as that is not the case for a lot of GUI, do the math, SFOS marketshare will not grow much as long as the core apps are not up to speed
14:19:41 <Jaymzz> #info some time ago I asked the situations app developer about situations based on calendar events (meetings, for example). He replied that Jolla does not provide (on harbour approved app) the API to access the calendar.
14:20:35 <c_la> chem|st I completely agree with you
14:20:43 <veskuh> phlixi_: chem|st Yes, those are good points and we will use same kind of argumentation
14:20:56 <chem|st> veskuh: ;)
14:21:10 <c_la> on the calendar api Chris provided lot of details
14:21:55 <chem|st> veskuh: I can offer to pay one employ for a 240day triage, if I get the actual gain in return :P
14:22:41 <veskuh> chem|st: haha, #info that :)
14:22:47 <chem|st> lol
14:23:06 <chem|st> so where is the API?
14:23:19 <c_la> does any sailor have something to add?
14:25:29 <Jaymzz> Okay moving on :)
14:25:40 <chem|st> Jaymzz: really no comment?
14:25:40 <Jaymzz> #topic Email App development (15 minutes, asked by: c_la)
14:25:42 <pvuorela> could add that there's also privacy part for calendar. currently the db is not even readable by apps.
14:25:57 <Jaymzz> #info the mail app has not improved much lately, my feeling is that development significantly slowed down once Vdvsx left. Given the many TJC topics on it (and some with a good vote count), is Jolla commited to work on it? how can the community help? Could you consider open source it, at least some parts (like for example the engine)?
14:26:14 <Jaymzz> chem|st: I don't have anything on that really :)
14:26:22 <chem|st> pvuorela: ta!
14:26:33 <Jaymzz> Since no one else replied I figured it's done ,anyway, next topic it is!
14:27:30 <veskuh> Well, Chis’ email again gives good overview
14:27:39 <chem|st> so email, I just ran in a showstopper, the mail app does not support serverside encrypted passwords eg ubcrypt and stuff, only serverside plaintext, which is in regards of current amount of db theft a real issue at hand!
14:27:59 <oniongarlic> a way to present calendar app with pre-filled "add event view" would help
14:28:16 <c_la> even in email development Chris provided lot of details oin the email, I didn't know that the email core was alkready open source
14:28:26 <r0kk3rz> i had a chat with chrisadm on irc this morning about this
14:28:40 <oniongarlic> (sorry for late comment, trying work here too...)
14:28:50 <r0kk3rz> around what the actual app itself actually does, and what would it take to replace it
14:28:52 <chem|st> c_la: the app itself has issues too, some of them 3 years old
14:28:57 <r0kk3rz> chriadam | from what I can see, there is basically zero cpp code in the jolla-email app, what's there just provides a dbus interface to allow calling into it and opening the composer etc.  the qml code just uses nemo-qml-plugin-email, but you'll need to be privileged user to access the databases and accounts etc
14:29:01 <r0kk3rz> was the response
14:29:12 <c_la> chem|st I know :) as I use email heavily
14:30:18 <kimmoli> chem|st: from day 0
14:30:30 <chem|st> kimmoli: exactly
14:30:41 <dcaliste> The source of QMF is free and one can add features if want to. I'm trying to add GPG signature support for instance. One can see it in gitlab #link https://git.merproject.org/u/dcaliste
14:30:51 <r0kk3rz> so it looks like a prime target for a third-party developer to pick up
14:30:56 <chem|st> Jolla1 was released with some of the still open bugs
14:31:23 <dcaliste> Then, it will be up to Jolla to either open source the UI or implement the view themselves.
14:32:05 <sledges> #info < dcaliste> The source of QMF is free and one can add features if want to. I'm trying to add GPG signature support for instance. One can see it in gitlab
14:32:08 <sledges> #link https://git.merproject.org/u/dcaliste
14:32:26 <sledges> #info < dcaliste> Then, it will be up to Jolla to either open source the UI or implement the view themselves.
14:32:29 <r0kk3rz> #link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/nemo-qml-plugin-email
14:34:09 <Jaymzz> c_la: Got the answer you were looking for? :)
14:34:52 <dr_gogeta86> I think the question is will SailfishOs will be great again ?
14:35:02 <chem|st> Jaymzz: we are looking for comments from Jolla on that matter, after VDV left nothing happened so far
14:35:23 <dcaliste> I think, as a community, we can add quite several features to QMF, but the closed UI will often block us to add user-related interactions…
14:35:41 <c_la> Jamyzz: yes
14:36:01 <dcaliste> To continue on the GPG side, there will be a need to cretae a nemo-qml-plugin-gpg or sort of to expose key management to QML.
14:36:12 <chem|st> dcaliste: remove the will, it does for 3 years
14:36:15 <r0kk3rz> dcaliste: the closed bit of the UI seems to be very thin, and probably not that much work to create an open equivalent
14:36:19 <c_la> Jamyzz, but there is a discussion ongioing
14:36:29 <Jaymzz> Alright :) I will give this a few more minutes and will move on
14:36:36 <dcaliste> That can easily be the job for community members also, IMHO. I'll do when I have time.
14:37:48 <c_la> rokk3rz: so you suggest to create "our own" gui instead of waiting for jolla to open source its own?
14:38:00 <dcaliste> r0kk3rz: Well, after looking into the QML parts that are bundle into the jolla-email execuatbel, I really don't want to rewrite them…
14:38:16 <r0kk3rz> c_la: yep, this is what i did with jolla-media, i didnt like it so i wrote my own
14:38:20 <chem|st> does not work, you will never get it approved in store
14:38:44 <chem|st> it will depend on things you are not allowed to depend on, as usual :)
14:38:58 <r0kk3rz> chem|st: for harbour sure
14:39:03 <c_la> rokk3rz: and is it publicly available? I missed it
14:39:33 <dcaliste> chem|st: my opinion is to push as much community middleware development as possible, so people in Jolla can hopefully convince their board.
14:39:48 <c_la> rokk3rz if it couldn't be on harbour it doesn't make much sense
14:39:54 <r0kk3rz> c_la: there is many jolla-media replacements around these days :)
14:40:29 <r0kk3rz> c_la: harbour restrictions are up to jolla...
14:40:59 <Jaymzz> Time to wrap up guys! moving on to general discussion soon
14:41:00 <chem|st> dcaliste: the community did an awesome job in circumventing shortcommings for 3 years, iirc only wlan tethering made it officially, what else?
14:41:23 <gaelic> Even wpa-enterprise is still missing :(
14:41:46 <chem|st> gaelic: that got under the buss in November fallout
14:42:03 <dr_gogeta86> gaelic, is son of connman bug-a-lore
14:42:20 <Jaymzz> Alright, time's up for this one. We can move the rest to general discussion
14:42:22 <chem|st> at least it was roadmapped to have cert management
14:42:33 <Jaymzz> #topic General Discussion (10-15 minutes)
14:43:10 <kimmoli> so, JollaC is coming...
14:43:18 <Jaymzz> Yeah :D
14:43:25 <Jaymzz> Exciting times
14:43:43 * r0kk3rz cannot go to launch event :(
14:43:43 <c_la> Jaymzz: can we get back to "rotating" time for meetings? to accomodate people in different timezones and people who work
14:43:59 <speactra_> Jaymzz: Will there be any confirmation mail regarding attending on June 17? I haven't got any yet.
14:44:09 <kimmoli> and community R&D stuff. any leaks what they could contain?
14:44:17 <Jaymzz> c_la: Yeah as long as it is feasible for all.
14:44:37 <Jaymzz> speactra: No confirmation, you're in as long as you RSVP'ed :)
14:44:46 <madhu> when jolla store will open for ported devices
14:44:53 <Jaymzz> speactra: And yes, your name is on the list!
14:44:54 <c_la> reference to https://together.jolla.com/question/43843/invitation-sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meetings-weekly-on-irc/
14:45:11 <speactra_> Jaymzz: Good, was a bit worried when everything else is booked :)
14:45:33 <chem|st> Jolla did spend a whole lot of time on getting SFOS screen size and resolution independent, I think now is time to actually develop core-usage apps like People, Mail, Calendar, Mediaplayer to an extend that it is getting attractive for new users, and the answer is not "there are alternatives better than ours", the approach for Joe and Jane is, out-of-the-box experience needs to be 5stars
14:46:06 <Jaymzz> c_la: let's get to the rotation times during the next topic which is related to that :)
14:46:17 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/43843/invitation-sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meetings-weekly-on-irc/
14:46:38 <chem|st> incl 1st level of underlaying things like gestures, sync, backup etc
14:46:38 <c_la> jamyzz next topic? Isn'tthis the last one? :)
14:46:40 <dr_gogeta86> chem|st, the problem are the services ... last night for example
14:46:59 <dr_gogeta86> 1) Instagram dropped so many apis ... aren't usefull
14:47:02 <Jaymzz> c_la: the last one is always related to deciding the next date and time etc
14:47:10 <dr_gogeta86> 2) you can't chat without their crap
14:47:17 <chem|st> dr_gogeta86: I am not talking about external stuff
14:47:25 <c_la> Jamyzz: I see. thanks
14:47:26 <chem|st> that is a whole other topic
14:47:30 <dr_gogeta86> nowadays those are selling points
14:47:38 <r0kk3rz> chem|st: Jolla has paying customers now, so they get what they want
14:47:53 <chem|st> I talk about emailing, calling, texting, listening to music, managing contacts and calendar
14:48:02 <dr_gogeta86> I know many ex jolla user back to ios/android for that
14:48:17 <dr_gogeta86> If i need to fill jolla 1 with android apps ...
14:48:19 <veskuh> chem|st: Yeah, that’s true, but also there are couple of bigger MW components that are getting old too.
14:48:30 <Jaymzz> c_la: btw just a small thing, please spell my nick correctly so I can see easier between all the messages ;D it's Jaymzz not Jamyzz
14:48:38 <veskuh> like Qt, gecko, bluez..
14:48:41 <chem|st> I myself think about getting a BB device as primary just to have something actually working
14:48:44 <dr_gogeta86> better buy a good android pone
14:48:50 <chem|st> *with keyboard
14:49:10 <nh1402_work> chem|st: I don't see the Blackberry priv being possible
14:49:45 <gaelic> dr_gogeta86: I totally understand as I also have thoughts in that direction
14:49:52 <c_la> Jaymzz: oops! Sorry for that! :|
14:49:58 <chem|st> nh1402_work: I am not talking about putting SFOS on it, that kinda fails the purpose
14:50:03 <Jaymzz> c_la no worries xD
14:50:11 <dr_gogeta86> for the record I'm using sfos on onyx ....
14:50:17 <sledges> madhu: pketo is the best person to answer when jolla store will open up to ports
14:50:34 <dr_gogeta86> sledges, good to know
14:50:52 <sledges> dr_gogeta86: i didn't say anything good nor bad;)
14:51:06 <chem|st> we are 3 years in and I am still unable to sync my contacts, not even from Jolla1 to Jolla1 beware owncloud or something else
14:51:08 <dr_gogeta86> you are working for ported
14:51:16 <nh1402_work> I remember paid apps in Jolla store being asked, and answered, but forgot what the answer was.
14:51:37 <phlixi_> chem|st: owncloud works perfectly fine for me for caldav and carddav
14:51:46 <phlixi_> missing cert?
14:52:01 <sledges> PSA: to all those helping translating sfos: please don't just add suggestion for search and replace all occurrences of some term, without creating a proper discussion first, and afterwards effecting the change in the Terminology project
14:52:16 <chem|st> phlixi_: I sync 312 of 355 contacts as buteo has some issue with what I have stored in the contacts
14:52:36 <pketo> madhu: I can't give exact eta of the store for ported devices, but it is in the short term road map
14:52:42 <sledges> \o/
14:53:08 <dr_gogeta86> something is needed from user side
14:53:09 <phlixi_> then next step is to have paid support, in order to able to buy android support on ported sf :-)
14:53:10 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes remaining
14:53:16 <phlixi_> ...i hope
14:53:17 <phlixi_> ^^
14:53:22 <madhu> thanks
14:53:23 <sledges> *proper discussion on TJC, as suggested in https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Translate_the_OS#Terminology
14:53:27 <dr_gogeta86> phlixi_, i prefer donate to apkenv
14:53:41 <nh1402_work> apkenv/sfdroid
14:54:07 <phlixi_> is there a button where i can put money?
14:54:12 <dr_gogeta86> I hope achive also bluetooth support
14:54:15 <sledges> some users on nexus5 reported sfdroid to work better than aliendalvik ;)
14:54:21 <sledges> e.g. memory hungry android apps ;)
14:54:56 <phlixi_> i only need one single tiny android app :-D
14:55:09 <chem|st> phlixi_: you do not need paid apps for that, Jolla could unlock the repo from elsewhere (just for the alien case I mean)
14:55:16 <sledges> dr_gogeta86: aliendalvik doesn't have bluetooth support iirc, so yes, vivad communauté :)
14:55:22 <nh1402_work> phlixi_: You can donate to krnlyng, which device and what's the minimum android version that app supports?
14:55:24 <phlixi_> i asume this would be a licence problme.
14:56:19 <nh1402_work> sledges: something might be in planning stage for that ;)
14:56:33 <Jaymzz> 1 minute remaining! better wrap up the discussions :)
14:56:37 <phlixi_> nh1402_work: i just ordered an jollac, thus no immediate need, nor specific device. just want to support it. the android app i am (have to be ) using is threema
14:56:54 <sledges> nh1402_work: woop!
14:57:11 <sledges> phlixi_: there are loads of peeps who use ported devices;)
14:57:12 <chem|st> phlixi_: don't use messaging where there is no libpurple
14:57:19 <sledges> so you're not the only one:)) (by at large)
14:57:57 <Jaymzz> Alright guys, time to move on :)
14:58:03 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting date and time
14:58:03 <nh1402_work> and more people porting sfdroid
14:58:09 <dr_gogeta86> eta for jolla c shipment
14:58:21 <chem|st> dr_gogeta86: July
14:58:25 <Jaymzz> #info I propose 23rd of June (3 weeks from now), 13:30 UTC
14:58:35 <Jaymzz> #info I'll be in Finland on 16th (2 weeks from now) busy preparing the event for International Sailfish Community Event, hence the 3 week proposal.
14:59:35 <Jaymzz> Any comments? :)
14:59:37 <dr_gogeta86> holidays with onyx ...
14:59:42 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: SGTM
15:00:20 <chem|st> Jaymzz: all good
15:00:23 <sledges> Jaymzz: no rotation of time?
15:00:53 <Jaymzz> sledges, c_la : How would that work? I have not been a part of rotational time meetings!
15:01:05 <veskuh> Jaymzz: I’m flying that day and probably will be at train or airport, but I can provide you with info in advance if needed
15:01:08 <c_la> Jamyzz: I woul propose 7:00 UTC or 19:00 UTC
15:01:08 <sledges> just shift by convenient hours for aussies:)
15:01:22 <dr_gogeta86> 19UTC please
15:01:27 <nh1402_work> what about the Americans
15:01:51 <r0kk3rz> sledges: last time we did this we got very few people from gmt+10
15:01:54 <sledges> they can fit in one of the two offerings:)
15:01:55 <dr_gogeta86> is 12/13 is ok
15:01:56 <c_la> Jaymzz I'm fine with any time after all, I'll join the meetings when I'll be able to
15:02:09 <r0kk3rz> at the expense of GMT+0 people
15:02:12 <sledges> r0kk3rz: yes, but chriadam has chipped in this time, via email though
15:02:30 <Jaymzz> sledges: so that means 2 meetings in a day with the same topics and slightly different people? :D
15:03:05 <ljo_> nope, one
15:03:14 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: no it just means that the meeting is at a time that people in GMT+10 can attend without it being like 2am
15:03:16 <sledges> Jaymzz: alternating each meeting
15:03:47 <Jaymzz> What time would suite us all best then? :)
15:04:01 <Jaymzz> Thanks for explaining all! :)
15:04:34 <Jaymzz> say, on June 23rd, what time would be the best?
15:04:38 <sledges> for chriadam anything until 8pm australian time is fine
15:05:00 <c_la> dr_gogeta86: maybe 19UTC isn't great for australians
15:05:36 <Jaymzz> 9UTC then? how's that?
15:05:37 <nh1402_work> I was about to suggest 10am GMT+1 but that would be 8pm there
15:06:12 <Jaymzz> Yeah that's why I suggest 9UTC, but it'd be really early for some in Europe and they might be at work...
15:06:37 <kimmoli> 9utc is lunch time...
15:06:49 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: this is the trade off, yes
15:06:51 <c_la> Jaymzz yeah 9am UTC for me is the same as 13:30 as I'll be at work
15:06:59 <ljo_> well, most times people are at work.
15:07:05 <LarstiQ> j
15:08:11 <Jaymzz> If we say 8utc, it is not lunch time, it's convenient for many in Europe (as long as they can skp work for an hour xD) and it's good for Australia
15:08:17 <gaelic> well, most people are in utc+1 or +2 i assume?
15:08:43 <Jaymzz> Yeah +1 +2 and +3 I think
15:09:22 <Jaymzz> For me, anytime would work as long as I'm not sleeping :) You guys can vote for something!
15:09:35 <Jaymzz> Shall we stick to the previous time? 13:30?
15:09:55 <kimmoli> utc 13
15:10:27 <Jaymzz> that could work here as well!
15:10:35 <Jaymzz> Any votes? inputs?
15:11:05 <c_la> Jaymzz at this point for me is the same
15:11:09 <sledges> it's either too early for europe, or too late for australia
15:11:20 <sledges> i vote for middle ground 11:30 UTC
15:11:21 <veskuh> I think 8 or 9 utc would be good, it’s almost midsummer so people may want to leave early
15:11:22 <Jaymzz> sledges: true...
15:12:02 <r0kk3rz> sledges: +1
15:12:05 <kimmoli> 9 utc is ok for me (8 not)
15:12:35 <sledges> ok, 9 utc just got 2 votes so ;) it's fine for me too
15:12:43 <Jaymzz> 9utc works for me too. As long as we get a few more votes on 9utc we will decide
15:12:51 <c_la> I proposed 7 UTC, too early for some?
15:13:00 <c_la> but ok for 9 utc
15:13:03 <r0kk3rz> c_la: way too early
15:13:05 <LarstiQ> c_la: waaay to early
15:13:07 <kimmoli> too early
15:13:10 <sledges> lol i'm still sleeping
15:13:11 <c_la> ok ok :)
15:13:13 <ljo_> 9utc
15:13:24 <Jaymzz> Alright then 9utc it is!
15:13:29 <sledges> \o/
15:13:40 <kimmoli> need to go out for lunch (and beer)
15:13:50 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be on 23rd June 2016 at 9:00 UTC
15:14:07 <Jaymzz> Thanks guys for this meeting! I will email y'all the minutes :)
15:14:15 <sledges> yo!
15:14:28 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting