13:30:24 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 2nd of June 2016 13:30:24 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 2 13:30:24 2016 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 13:30:24 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 13:30:34 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007150.html 13:30:42 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect. 13:30:56 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes) . Please prefix your name/handle with # info 13:31:16 <DylanVanAssche> #info DylanVanAssche 13:31:28 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Community Manager at your service :) 13:31:41 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, tohs, apps, ports, et.al. just add beer 13:31:50 <veskuh> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager at Jolla 13:31:52 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community 13:31:53 <c_la> #info Claudio Campeggi, community member 13:32:03 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc, developer 13:32:04 <sledges> r0kk3rz: bwhahahaha! 13:32:12 <gerbick> #info William McBee, UX Designer, former programmer (kicked the habit), community member 13:32:13 <kuca247> luca247, community member 13:32:18 <MSameer> #info Mohammed Hassan, Jolla, larking 13:32:23 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, HW adaptation and l10n @ jolla 13:32:31 <dr_gogeta86> #info Fabio isgò , community ... ported phone user 13:32:37 <dr_gogeta86> *Isgrò 13:32:52 <MSameer> #info Mohammed Hassan, Jolla (convert coffee to code), larking 13:33:08 <dcaliste> #info Damien, community, coding here and there 13:33:54 <oniongarlic> #info Kaj-Michael Lang, Community, Independent developer (Y-Radio, Onki) 13:34:27 <eekkelund> #info Eetu Kahelin, Community, Maemo Community Council 13:34:33 <citylight2> citylights2, community member 13:35:15 <chem|st> #info R. Schiller, Community, Maemo Community Board, TJC TMO 13:35:41 <Jaymzz> Quite a handful this time :) Moving on to the next topic in 1 minute, get your intros done guys :) 13:35:46 <gaelic> #info gaelic, Enthusiast, User, Programmer 13:35:59 <nh1402_work> #info nh1402, Community, sfdroid co-founder 13:36:37 <Jaymzz> And moving on -> 13:36:39 <ballock> #info Bolesław Tokarski, community, porter 13:36:43 <Jaymzz> #topic Bluetooth tethering – status of the fix (20 minutes, asked by: c_la) 13:36:55 <Jaymzz> #info The 1.1.7 update broke bluetooth tethering. Some work was done by sailors but to my understanding no real fix has been made. 13:38:12 <c_la> Chris Adams gave some insights on the email sent to the mailing list, is anyone from jolla that is here able to get more details about it? 13:39:34 <veskuh> Chris’ mail: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007151.html 13:39:59 <Jaymzz> #link https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007151.html 13:40:33 <sledges> kimmoli know bluetooth ;) 13:40:45 <SfietKonstantinW> :) 13:40:46 <SfietKonstantinW> hello 13:41:01 <kimmoli> que? 13:41:09 <veskuh> #info This is not high Jolla’s priorities. We have connectivity issues and new hardware seem to always keep our limited connectivity guys busy. 13:41:46 <veskuh> #info The related components should all be open source so any contribution would be welcome though. 13:43:06 <c_la> @veskuh is the thethering bug open at jolla visible from outside? TO uinderstand what has been discovered 13:44:31 <c_la> what about the new bluez 5? Any timing about its implementation? 13:44:34 <sledges> at least this one is 13:44:36 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/107787/11728-bluetooth-tethering-via-connman-no-longer-supported/ 13:44:41 * lbt is late 13:44:41 <sledges> with already some research 13:44:47 <sledges> o/ lbt 13:45:03 <Jaymzz> lbt o/ 13:45:33 <r0kk3rz> is there much usecase for BT tethering instead of wifi hotspotting? 13:45:43 <veskuh> c_la: No public bug, but TJC article has pretty much same info as internal bug 13:46:05 <veskuh> c_la: BlueZ 5 is ongoing work and hopefully lands sometime this summer 13:46:07 <Thaodan> r0kk3rz: keeping the hotspot hidden for others? 13:46:19 <Thaodan> maybe wifi issues in generall 13:46:20 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: how easy it is today to bridge nemo bugtrcker with jolla one ? 13:46:33 <SfietKonstantinW> for example discussing this bug on nemo bz should be nice 13:46:38 <SfietKonstantinW> (maybe nicer than on tjc ?) 13:46:39 <SfietKonstantinW> don't kno 13:46:40 <SfietKonstantinW> w 13:46:47 <phlixi_> Thaodan: hiding a wlan AP is useless... just use a passphrase 13:46:50 <r0kk3rz> SfietKonstantinW: +1 13:47:01 <c_la> @veskuh so no more work after last update on march 12? 13:47:11 <veskuh> For individual bugs it is not an issue, we now have many times linked bug from mer bugzilla to internal one. 13:47:24 <Jaymzz> 10 minutes passed, 10 minutes remaining! 13:47:44 <veskuh> c_la: yes 13:47:49 <lbt> SfietKonstantinW: in general the link is from Mer bugtracker to Jolla bz. That's an active WIP and jolla are using the Mer bz a lot more nowadays 13:47:59 <Thaodan> phlixi_: this is not what I meant. I mean sometimes there are to many wlans in your area and your connection can be bad 13:48:07 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: maybe this one is worth being tracked on mer bz ? 13:48:07 <c_la> @rokk3rz in my (and other community members) case the tomtom GO devices: they get live traffic over bt tehering 13:48:36 <veskuh> The comments look like its connman issue so BlueZ 5 update would not help 13:48:38 <r0kk3rz> c_la: ah cool, i guess they dont do wifi or usb 13:48:45 <c_la> @SfietKonstantinW I searched on mer bugzilla but no mention of bt tethering 13:49:05 <c_la> @rokk3rs right, only bluetooth :) 13:49:14 <c_la> @rokk3rz right, only bluetooth :) 13:49:17 <stephg> oops.sorry I'm late 13:49:30 <Jaymzz> stephg o/ 13:49:46 * sledges tickles stephg 13:50:27 * stephg giggles 13:50:32 <Jaymzz> lol :D 13:50:44 <r0kk3rz> keep it pg guys :P 13:50:59 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes remaining! 13:51:40 <veskuh> SfietKonstantinW: Yes, as far as I understood its issue in Mer and anyone from community could try to fix it. 13:52:04 <c_la> @veskuh if it's conman and I would help to look into it, would Jolla devs give me some help how to debug it? 13:52:19 <sledges> SfietKonstantinW: r0kk3rz: it's already on TJC so, why pushing the crowd to use something else all of a sudden? (yes, we have mer-jolla bz bridging in place) 13:52:36 <SfietKonstantinW> sledges: because bz is made for devs ? :) 13:52:49 <sledges> SfietKonstantinW: yes so let's split tjc? :P 13:52:58 * sledges flame warning ;) 13:53:17 <c_la> at least to get started 13:53:20 <SfietKonstantinW> sledges: IMO I see TJC as a crowdsourced place to report bugs. When something is bring to devs, it is bridged to a bz (Jolla one). When it is a Mer bug it could be bridged to a public bz 13:53:27 <r0kk3rz> sledges: it makes sense for middleware bugs to go on middleware project? sure users dont need to know that so TJC is a good catchall 13:53:30 <SfietKonstantinW> and when the bz ticket is closed, the TJC post is also closed 13:53:35 <SfietKonstantinW> anyway, that's my vision 13:53:38 <SfietKonstantinW> r0kk3rz: +1 13:53:54 <sledges> tjc-merbz bridging... 13:54:04 <lbt> once the bug moves from device functionality to specific issues in source code then it's sensible to open a Mer bug. TJC shouldn't really mention packages and src - Mer bz shouldn't be about device level functional bugs 13:54:06 <sledges> (note tjc-jollabz bridging is also in place already as you know :D) 13:54:32 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes remaining :) let's begin wrapping this one up 13:54:33 <lbt> (like SfietKonstantinW says) 13:54:33 <SfietKonstantinW> :) 13:54:41 <SfietKonstantinW> +1 lbt 13:55:00 <sledges> it's free world/speech;) no-one prevents you from creating a bug in mer bz, but somehow no-one has 13:55:14 <sledges> in 9 months time:) 13:55:25 <kimmoli> no dev interested on this? 13:55:25 <veskuh> c_la: Well, of course you can ask at IRC how to get started, but we do not have many connman experts around and it may be quite tricky to fix and even get started. 13:55:49 <sledges> ok, then let an interested dev create a bug and pave a great example way ;) 13:55:52 <Jaymzz> 1 min remains 13:56:06 <kimmoli> fallback device to pre 1.1.7 and diff? 13:56:08 <lbt> sledges: +1 13:56:10 <c_la> veskuh: do you tink it's tricky to fix? in the moofang answer on TJC I read "not difficult to change the code in the problematic place but should understand why it was written as it is in the first place. " 13:56:14 <r0kk3rz> kimmoli: you're it kimmo, its all yours :) 13:56:27 <kimmoli> r0kk3rz: plöö 13:56:43 <c_la> so it seems an easy fix but did not want to go forward because he wanted to dig deeper on the cause 13:56:55 <dr_gogeta86> is still in 2016 connman an advantage ? 13:56:56 <sledges> c_la: dit ;) 13:57:15 <Jaymzz> Alright, are we done with this? moving on in a few seconds 13:57:18 <c_la> sledges: dit? 13:57:23 <dr_gogeta86> even wifi bugs aren't few 13:57:24 <sledges> c_la: do-it-together 13:57:30 <kimmoli> do it tomorrow 13:57:36 <sledges> lol 13:57:46 <sledges> do it tonight :P 13:57:46 <c_la> well I woukld be fine getting a 1.1.7 image and sticking to it :) 13:57:58 <sledges> c_la: in 2016? ;) 13:58:24 <c_la> sledges: why not? :) it worked.. after all :) 13:58:41 <Jaymzz> Alright, moving on -> 13:58:42 <c_la> Jamyzz: thanks, we can move on 13:58:42 <sledges> and on this bombshell, Jaymzz time to move on:) 13:58:48 <Jaymzz> #topic 2016 roadmap (15 minutes, asked by: c_la) 13:58:55 <Jaymzz> #info It's June, we're almost halfway through the year, but no roadmap has been published. Will there be a 2016 roadmap? What are the roadblocks to release it? 13:59:34 <pavi> diificult question 13:59:43 <c_la> Jamyzz you mentioned one month ago, just as you joined jolla, that a rodmap was being drafted 13:59:53 <Jaymzz> #info I give a little extra time to each topic since one of the topics were deleted from TJC before the meeting. 14:00:25 <Jaymzz> c_la that was regarding the Sailfish OS website right? 14:00:39 <c_la> what is its status and when we should expect to have it released? 14:01:21 <c_la> Jamyzz: you wrote it on TJC, let me pick the link 14:01:38 <Jaymzz> We were mostly waiting for the Community Program to become public, after dealing with the event and also the responsibilities related to the program, I will take care of the website as soon as I have the green light 14:01:53 <Jaymzz> c_la: I know what I said :) 14:01:59 <sledges> Jaymzz: i think c_la means https://sailfishos.org/developmentroadmap/ 14:02:12 <Jaymzz> Yes that's what I think he means too! 14:02:16 <sledges> (and high level https://sailfishos.org/roadmap/ ) 14:02:38 <sledges> ok, got confused about "of the website" bit :P 14:02:47 <c_la> https://together.jolla.com/question/115416/request-for-roadmap-2016-and-a-huge-thanks-for-the-earlier/ 14:03:07 <Jaymzz> I will update that as soon as I have the green light. At this moment we're mostly busy with the Community Device Program :) 14:03:20 <Jaymzz> sledges: Yeah couldn't think of the link for a sec xD 14:03:41 <sledges> cool! 14:03:49 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: typically this was updated after an interation planning meeting @ jolla. but i guess you guys have been busy doing rather than planning 14:03:50 <veskuh> Highlevel roadmap is something we maybe can do. The detailed roadmap is nowadays more problematic since we do a lot of work for client requirements 14:03:54 <c_la> Jamyzz thanks for the answer, we can move on then 14:04:29 <Jaymzz> #info Highlevel roadmap is something we maybe can do. The detailed roadmap is nowadays more problematic since we do a lot of work for client requirements 14:04:31 <r0kk3rz> veskuh: ah the wonders of the NDA 14:05:21 <sledges> use new strings dump in pootle as short-term roadmap ;P (or early release warning taster if you wanna call it :)) 14:05:27 <veskuh> r0kk3rz: yep, and yes we’ve not had that many planning meetings as we’ve been so busy with Intex, Jolla C and others 14:05:28 <c_la> veskuh: Jamyzz: high level is better than nothing :) 14:05:47 <Jaymzz> #info the reply I gave on TJC pointed to the now-revealed community device program. we have now released that and are busy "doing" what's related to it. I (Jaymzz) will try my best to push the updates for the roadmap as soon as we're a little less busy on the Community Device Program 14:05:49 <kimmoli> quarter resolution? 14:06:26 <Jaymzz> c_la: So, shall we move on then? Hopefully you got the answer :) 14:06:47 <c_la> Jamyzz: definitely, we can move on 14:06:53 <Jaymzz> #topic Show notes of contact [Open source contact app?] (15 minutes, asked by: c_la) 14:06:53 <c_la> thank you for that 14:07:00 <Jaymzz> #info the feature request to show and edit contact notes is one of the most voted on TJC, but still no efforts seems to be made. Is Jolla planning to fix it? If not, how can the community help it? opensource contacts app may be an alternative? Remember that contact notes are already saved in contact database, they simply are not displayed 14:07:10 <Jaymzz> c_la : Anytime :) 14:07:56 <chem|st> Jaymzz: would be nice of you to refer links in the minutes with #link 14:08:08 <chem|st> bot does that for you 14:08:39 <Jaymzz> chem|st: Yes, will do, forgot to do with the last two ones! Sorry 14:08:49 <veskuh> Chris’ email gives a good picture on what happened on this feature. 14:09:09 <sledges> #link https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-June/007151.html 14:09:44 <chem|st> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/7509/ 14:10:14 <chem|st> question here is "one of the most voted" 140 is not most voted, the question is misleading 14:10:55 <c_la> Chris said in the email that's a tricky implementation because there may be multiple notes, I thought that as contacts app already manages multiple phone numbers, Addresses, etc would be easier 14:11:12 <c_la> chem|st you're right I remembered more votes to it 14:11:26 <sledges> #info ^^ Chris’ email gives a good picture on what happened on this feature. 14:11:43 <chem|st> it is an important feature in business env, just like a hardware keyboard! 14:12:26 <veskuh> #Info At the moment we are not really adding many features to apps as we are mostly busy with other stuff (new HW, couple of key features, mw updates, ..) 14:12:51 <chem|st> close to none of the features requested for People got implemented yet, even basic features still missing 14:13:28 <chem|st> as this is a general problem with core apps, if Jolla does not have the manpower to work on them, opensource them please 14:13:51 <c_la> can peoplemapp be opne sourced to make community help the development? 14:14:02 <c_la> people app* 14:14:10 <r0kk3rz> at least then when nobody develops for it you can shift the blame :) 14:14:13 <c_la> i.e. the contacts app 14:15:09 <c_la> rokk3rz: well my thought is to set a bounty and the developer who implements it gets the money 14:15:21 <c_la> if it gets opensourced 14:15:35 <chem|st> c_la: it is a lot more attached than just that some of it already foss 14:16:03 <chem|st> but the gui is the bottleneck closed bit 14:16:04 <veskuh> c_la: Yes, if we get approval for open sourcing contacs app open sourcing shouldn’t be a problem 14:16:54 <Jaymzz> #info if we get approval for open sourcing contacs app open sourcing shouldn’t be a problem 14:16:54 <c_la> veskuh: the open sourcin of it has already been submitted for approval? 14:17:03 <c_la> sourcing* 14:17:08 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes left :) 14:17:24 <r0kk3rz> c_la: there has been a wider open-sourcing proposal to the board ongoing for a number of months now 14:17:27 <veskuh> c_la: We are working on proposal for the company board. 14:17:30 <chem|st> c_la: stakeholders are scared of foss'ing 14:18:00 <veskuh> It needs to be well prepared since board naturally is more business oriented group 14:18:20 <c_la> rokk3rz: veskuh: chem|st: thank you 14:18:42 <c_la> Jamyzz we can move on 14:19:14 <Jaymzz> Alright then! 14:19:32 <Jaymzz> #topic API access to calendar (15 minutes, asked by: c_la) 14:19:34 <phlixi_> the board should mind, that the core apps right now are minimal, and if there is no resources to further develop them, whats the point in not open them up? 14:19:37 <chem|st> from my point of view, it can all stay closed, as long as you have the manpower to handle requests, as that is not the case for a lot of GUI, do the math, SFOS marketshare will not grow much as long as the core apps are not up to speed 14:19:41 <Jaymzz> #info some time ago I asked the situations app developer about situations based on calendar events (meetings, for example). He replied that Jolla does not provide (on harbour approved app) the API to access the calendar. 14:20:35 <c_la> chem|st I completely agree with you 14:20:43 <veskuh> phlixi_: chem|st Yes, those are good points and we will use same kind of argumentation 14:20:56 <chem|st> veskuh: ;) 14:21:10 <c_la> on the calendar api Chris provided lot of details 14:21:55 <chem|st> veskuh: I can offer to pay one employ for a 240day triage, if I get the actual gain in return :P 14:22:41 <veskuh> chem|st: haha, #info that :) 14:22:47 <chem|st> lol 14:23:06 <chem|st> so where is the API? 14:23:19 <c_la> does any sailor have something to add? 14:25:29 <Jaymzz> Okay moving on :) 14:25:40 <chem|st> Jaymzz: really no comment? 14:25:40 <Jaymzz> #topic Email App development (15 minutes, asked by: c_la) 14:25:42 <pvuorela> could add that there's also privacy part for calendar. currently the db is not even readable by apps. 14:25:57 <Jaymzz> #info the mail app has not improved much lately, my feeling is that development significantly slowed down once Vdvsx left. Given the many TJC topics on it (and some with a good vote count), is Jolla commited to work on it? how can the community help? Could you consider open source it, at least some parts (like for example the engine)? 14:26:14 <Jaymzz> chem|st: I don't have anything on that really :) 14:26:22 <chem|st> pvuorela: ta! 14:26:33 <Jaymzz> Since no one else replied I figured it's done ,anyway, next topic it is! 14:27:30 <veskuh> Well, Chis’ email again gives good overview 14:27:39 <chem|st> so email, I just ran in a showstopper, the mail app does not support serverside encrypted passwords eg ubcrypt and stuff, only serverside plaintext, which is in regards of current amount of db theft a real issue at hand! 14:27:59 <oniongarlic> a way to present calendar app with pre-filled "add event view" would help 14:28:16 <c_la> even in email development Chris provided lot of details oin the email, I didn't know that the email core was alkready open source 14:28:26 <r0kk3rz> i had a chat with chrisadm on irc this morning about this 14:28:40 <oniongarlic> (sorry for late comment, trying work here too...) 14:28:50 <r0kk3rz> around what the actual app itself actually does, and what would it take to replace it 14:28:52 <chem|st> c_la: the app itself has issues too, some of them 3 years old 14:28:57 <r0kk3rz> chriadam | from what I can see, there is basically zero cpp code in the jolla-email app, what's there just provides a dbus interface to allow calling into it and opening the composer etc. the qml code just uses nemo-qml-plugin-email, but you'll need to be privileged user to access the databases and accounts etc 14:29:01 <r0kk3rz> was the response 14:29:12 <c_la> chem|st I know :) as I use email heavily 14:30:18 <kimmoli> chem|st: from day 0 14:30:30 <chem|st> kimmoli: exactly 14:30:41 <dcaliste> The source of QMF is free and one can add features if want to. I'm trying to add GPG signature support for instance. One can see it in gitlab #link https://git.merproject.org/u/dcaliste 14:30:51 <r0kk3rz> so it looks like a prime target for a third-party developer to pick up 14:30:56 <chem|st> Jolla1 was released with some of the still open bugs 14:31:23 <dcaliste> Then, it will be up to Jolla to either open source the UI or implement the view themselves. 14:32:05 <sledges> #info < dcaliste> The source of QMF is free and one can add features if want to. I'm trying to add GPG signature support for instance. One can see it in gitlab 14:32:08 <sledges> #link https://git.merproject.org/u/dcaliste 14:32:26 <sledges> #info < dcaliste> Then, it will be up to Jolla to either open source the UI or implement the view themselves. 14:32:29 <r0kk3rz> #link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/nemo-qml-plugin-email 14:34:09 <Jaymzz> c_la: Got the answer you were looking for? :) 14:34:52 <dr_gogeta86> I think the question is will SailfishOs will be great again ? 14:35:02 <chem|st> Jaymzz: we are looking for comments from Jolla on that matter, after VDV left nothing happened so far 14:35:23 <dcaliste> I think, as a community, we can add quite several features to QMF, but the closed UI will often block us to add user-related interactions… 14:35:41 <c_la> Jamyzz: yes 14:36:01 <dcaliste> To continue on the GPG side, there will be a need to cretae a nemo-qml-plugin-gpg or sort of to expose key management to QML. 14:36:12 <chem|st> dcaliste: remove the will, it does for 3 years 14:36:15 <r0kk3rz> dcaliste: the closed bit of the UI seems to be very thin, and probably not that much work to create an open equivalent 14:36:19 <c_la> Jamyzz, but there is a discussion ongioing 14:36:29 <Jaymzz> Alright :) I will give this a few more minutes and will move on 14:36:36 <dcaliste> That can easily be the job for community members also, IMHO. I'll do when I have time. 14:37:48 <c_la> rokk3rz: so you suggest to create "our own" gui instead of waiting for jolla to open source its own? 14:38:00 <dcaliste> r0kk3rz: Well, after looking into the QML parts that are bundle into the jolla-email execuatbel, I really don't want to rewrite them… 14:38:16 <r0kk3rz> c_la: yep, this is what i did with jolla-media, i didnt like it so i wrote my own 14:38:20 <chem|st> does not work, you will never get it approved in store 14:38:44 <chem|st> it will depend on things you are not allowed to depend on, as usual :) 14:38:58 <r0kk3rz> chem|st: for harbour sure 14:39:03 <c_la> rokk3rz: and is it publicly available? I missed it 14:39:33 <dcaliste> chem|st: my opinion is to push as much community middleware development as possible, so people in Jolla can hopefully convince their board. 14:39:48 <c_la> rokk3rz if it couldn't be on harbour it doesn't make much sense 14:39:54 <r0kk3rz> c_la: there is many jolla-media replacements around these days :) 14:40:29 <r0kk3rz> c_la: harbour restrictions are up to jolla... 14:40:59 <Jaymzz> Time to wrap up guys! moving on to general discussion soon 14:41:00 <chem|st> dcaliste: the community did an awesome job in circumventing shortcommings for 3 years, iirc only wlan tethering made it officially, what else? 14:41:23 <gaelic> Even wpa-enterprise is still missing :( 14:41:46 <chem|st> gaelic: that got under the buss in November fallout 14:42:03 <dr_gogeta86> gaelic, is son of connman bug-a-lore 14:42:20 <Jaymzz> Alright, time's up for this one. We can move the rest to general discussion 14:42:22 <chem|st> at least it was roadmapped to have cert management 14:42:33 <Jaymzz> #topic General Discussion (10-15 minutes) 14:43:10 <kimmoli> so, JollaC is coming... 14:43:18 <Jaymzz> Yeah :D 14:43:25 <Jaymzz> Exciting times 14:43:43 * r0kk3rz cannot go to launch event :( 14:43:43 <c_la> Jaymzz: can we get back to "rotating" time for meetings? to accomodate people in different timezones and people who work 14:43:59 <speactra_> Jaymzz: Will there be any confirmation mail regarding attending on June 17? I haven't got any yet. 14:44:09 <kimmoli> and community R&D stuff. any leaks what they could contain? 14:44:17 <Jaymzz> c_la: Yeah as long as it is feasible for all. 14:44:37 <Jaymzz> speactra: No confirmation, you're in as long as you RSVP'ed :) 14:44:46 <madhu> when jolla store will open for ported devices 14:44:53 <Jaymzz> speactra: And yes, your name is on the list! 14:44:54 <c_la> reference to https://together.jolla.com/question/43843/invitation-sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meetings-weekly-on-irc/ 14:45:11 <speactra_> Jaymzz: Good, was a bit worried when everything else is booked :) 14:45:33 <chem|st> Jolla did spend a whole lot of time on getting SFOS screen size and resolution independent, I think now is time to actually develop core-usage apps like People, Mail, Calendar, Mediaplayer to an extend that it is getting attractive for new users, and the answer is not "there are alternatives better than ours", the approach for Joe and Jane is, out-of-the-box experience needs to be 5stars 14:46:06 <Jaymzz> c_la: let's get to the rotation times during the next topic which is related to that :) 14:46:17 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/43843/invitation-sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meetings-weekly-on-irc/ 14:46:38 <chem|st> incl 1st level of underlaying things like gestures, sync, backup etc 14:46:38 <c_la> jamyzz next topic? Isn'tthis the last one? :) 14:46:40 <dr_gogeta86> chem|st, the problem are the services ... last night for example 14:46:59 <dr_gogeta86> 1) Instagram dropped so many apis ... aren't usefull 14:47:02 <Jaymzz> c_la: the last one is always related to deciding the next date and time etc 14:47:10 <dr_gogeta86> 2) you can't chat without their crap 14:47:17 <chem|st> dr_gogeta86: I am not talking about external stuff 14:47:25 <c_la> Jamyzz: I see. thanks 14:47:26 <chem|st> that is a whole other topic 14:47:30 <dr_gogeta86> nowadays those are selling points 14:47:38 <r0kk3rz> chem|st: Jolla has paying customers now, so they get what they want 14:47:53 <chem|st> I talk about emailing, calling, texting, listening to music, managing contacts and calendar 14:48:02 <dr_gogeta86> I know many ex jolla user back to ios/android for that 14:48:17 <dr_gogeta86> If i need to fill jolla 1 with android apps ... 14:48:19 <veskuh> chem|st: Yeah, that’s true, but also there are couple of bigger MW components that are getting old too. 14:48:30 <Jaymzz> c_la: btw just a small thing, please spell my nick correctly so I can see easier between all the messages ;D it's Jaymzz not Jamyzz 14:48:38 <veskuh> like Qt, gecko, bluez.. 14:48:41 <chem|st> I myself think about getting a BB device as primary just to have something actually working 14:48:44 <dr_gogeta86> better buy a good android pone 14:48:50 <chem|st> *with keyboard 14:49:10 <nh1402_work> chem|st: I don't see the Blackberry priv being possible 14:49:45 <gaelic> dr_gogeta86: I totally understand as I also have thoughts in that direction 14:49:52 <c_la> Jaymzz: oops! Sorry for that! :| 14:49:58 <chem|st> nh1402_work: I am not talking about putting SFOS on it, that kinda fails the purpose 14:50:03 <Jaymzz> c_la no worries xD 14:50:11 <dr_gogeta86> for the record I'm using sfos on onyx .... 14:50:17 <sledges> madhu: pketo is the best person to answer when jolla store will open up to ports 14:50:34 <dr_gogeta86> sledges, good to know 14:50:52 <sledges> dr_gogeta86: i didn't say anything good nor bad;) 14:51:06 <chem|st> we are 3 years in and I am still unable to sync my contacts, not even from Jolla1 to Jolla1 beware owncloud or something else 14:51:08 <dr_gogeta86> you are working for ported 14:51:16 <nh1402_work> I remember paid apps in Jolla store being asked, and answered, but forgot what the answer was. 14:51:37 <phlixi_> chem|st: owncloud works perfectly fine for me for caldav and carddav 14:51:46 <phlixi_> missing cert? 14:52:01 <sledges> PSA: to all those helping translating sfos: please don't just add suggestion for search and replace all occurrences of some term, without creating a proper discussion first, and afterwards effecting the change in the Terminology project 14:52:16 <chem|st> phlixi_: I sync 312 of 355 contacts as buteo has some issue with what I have stored in the contacts 14:52:36 <pketo> madhu: I can't give exact eta of the store for ported devices, but it is in the short term road map 14:52:42 <sledges> \o/ 14:53:08 <dr_gogeta86> something is needed from user side 14:53:09 <phlixi_> then next step is to have paid support, in order to able to buy android support on ported sf :-) 14:53:10 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes remaining 14:53:16 <phlixi_> ...i hope 14:53:17 <phlixi_> ^^ 14:53:22 <madhu> thanks 14:53:23 <sledges> *proper discussion on TJC, as suggested in https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Translate_the_OS#Terminology 14:53:27 <dr_gogeta86> phlixi_, i prefer donate to apkenv 14:53:41 <nh1402_work> apkenv/sfdroid 14:54:07 <phlixi_> is there a button where i can put money? 14:54:12 <dr_gogeta86> I hope achive also bluetooth support 14:54:15 <sledges> some users on nexus5 reported sfdroid to work better than aliendalvik ;) 14:54:21 <sledges> e.g. memory hungry android apps ;) 14:54:56 <phlixi_> i only need one single tiny android app :-D 14:55:09 <chem|st> phlixi_: you do not need paid apps for that, Jolla could unlock the repo from elsewhere (just for the alien case I mean) 14:55:16 <sledges> dr_gogeta86: aliendalvik doesn't have bluetooth support iirc, so yes, vivad communauté :) 14:55:22 <nh1402_work> phlixi_: You can donate to krnlyng, which device and what's the minimum android version that app supports? 14:55:24 <phlixi_> i asume this would be a licence problme. 14:56:19 <nh1402_work> sledges: something might be in planning stage for that ;) 14:56:33 <Jaymzz> 1 minute remaining! better wrap up the discussions :) 14:56:37 <phlixi_> nh1402_work: i just ordered an jollac, thus no immediate need, nor specific device. just want to support it. the android app i am (have to be ) using is threema 14:56:54 <sledges> nh1402_work: woop! 14:57:11 <sledges> phlixi_: there are loads of peeps who use ported devices;) 14:57:12 <chem|st> phlixi_: don't use messaging where there is no libpurple 14:57:19 <sledges> so you're not the only one:)) (by at large) 14:57:57 <Jaymzz> Alright guys, time to move on :) 14:58:03 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting date and time 14:58:03 <nh1402_work> and more people porting sfdroid 14:58:09 <dr_gogeta86> eta for jolla c shipment 14:58:21 <chem|st> dr_gogeta86: July 14:58:25 <Jaymzz> #info I propose 23rd of June (3 weeks from now), 13:30 UTC 14:58:35 <Jaymzz> #info I'll be in Finland on 16th (2 weeks from now) busy preparing the event for International Sailfish Community Event, hence the 3 week proposal. 14:59:35 <Jaymzz> Any comments? :) 14:59:37 <dr_gogeta86> holidays with onyx ... 14:59:42 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: SGTM 15:00:20 <chem|st> Jaymzz: all good 15:00:23 <sledges> Jaymzz: no rotation of time? 15:00:53 <Jaymzz> sledges, c_la : How would that work? I have not been a part of rotational time meetings! 15:01:05 <veskuh> Jaymzz: I’m flying that day and probably will be at train or airport, but I can provide you with info in advance if needed 15:01:08 <c_la> Jamyzz: I woul propose 7:00 UTC or 19:00 UTC 15:01:08 <sledges> just shift by convenient hours for aussies:) 15:01:22 <dr_gogeta86> 19UTC please 15:01:27 <nh1402_work> what about the Americans 15:01:51 <r0kk3rz> sledges: last time we did this we got very few people from gmt+10 15:01:54 <sledges> they can fit in one of the two offerings:) 15:01:55 <dr_gogeta86> is 12/13 is ok 15:01:56 <c_la> Jaymzz I'm fine with any time after all, I'll join the meetings when I'll be able to 15:02:09 <r0kk3rz> at the expense of GMT+0 people 15:02:12 <sledges> r0kk3rz: yes, but chriadam has chipped in this time, via email though 15:02:30 <Jaymzz> sledges: so that means 2 meetings in a day with the same topics and slightly different people? :D 15:03:05 <ljo_> nope, one 15:03:14 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: no it just means that the meeting is at a time that people in GMT+10 can attend without it being like 2am 15:03:16 <sledges> Jaymzz: alternating each meeting 15:03:47 <Jaymzz> What time would suite us all best then? :) 15:04:01 <Jaymzz> Thanks for explaining all! :) 15:04:34 <Jaymzz> say, on June 23rd, what time would be the best? 15:04:38 <sledges> for chriadam anything until 8pm australian time is fine 15:05:00 <c_la> dr_gogeta86: maybe 19UTC isn't great for australians 15:05:36 <Jaymzz> 9UTC then? how's that? 15:05:37 <nh1402_work> I was about to suggest 10am GMT+1 but that would be 8pm there 15:06:12 <Jaymzz> Yeah that's why I suggest 9UTC, but it'd be really early for some in Europe and they might be at work... 15:06:37 <kimmoli> 9utc is lunch time... 15:06:49 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: this is the trade off, yes 15:06:51 <c_la> Jaymzz yeah 9am UTC for me is the same as 13:30 as I'll be at work 15:06:59 <ljo_> well, most times people are at work. 15:07:05 <LarstiQ> j 15:08:11 <Jaymzz> If we say 8utc, it is not lunch time, it's convenient for many in Europe (as long as they can skp work for an hour xD) and it's good for Australia 15:08:17 <gaelic> well, most people are in utc+1 or +2 i assume? 15:08:43 <Jaymzz> Yeah +1 +2 and +3 I think 15:09:22 <Jaymzz> For me, anytime would work as long as I'm not sleeping :) You guys can vote for something! 15:09:35 <Jaymzz> Shall we stick to the previous time? 13:30? 15:09:55 <kimmoli> utc 13 15:10:27 <Jaymzz> that could work here as well! 15:10:35 <Jaymzz> Any votes? inputs? 15:11:05 <c_la> Jaymzz at this point for me is the same 15:11:09 <sledges> it's either too early for europe, or too late for australia 15:11:20 <sledges> i vote for middle ground 11:30 UTC 15:11:21 <veskuh> I think 8 or 9 utc would be good, it’s almost midsummer so people may want to leave early 15:11:22 <Jaymzz> sledges: true... 15:12:02 <r0kk3rz> sledges: +1 15:12:05 <kimmoli> 9 utc is ok for me (8 not) 15:12:35 <sledges> ok, 9 utc just got 2 votes so ;) it's fine for me too 15:12:43 <Jaymzz> 9utc works for me too. As long as we get a few more votes on 9utc we will decide 15:12:51 <c_la> I proposed 7 UTC, too early for some? 15:13:00 <c_la> but ok for 9 utc 15:13:03 <r0kk3rz> c_la: way too early 15:13:05 <LarstiQ> c_la: waaay to early 15:13:07 <kimmoli> too early 15:13:10 <sledges> lol i'm still sleeping 15:13:11 <c_la> ok ok :) 15:13:13 <ljo_> 9utc 15:13:24 <Jaymzz> Alright then 9utc it is! 15:13:29 <sledges> \o/ 15:13:40 <kimmoli> need to go out for lunch (and beer) 15:13:50 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be on 23rd June 2016 at 9:00 UTC 15:14:07 <Jaymzz> Thanks guys for this meeting! I will email y'all the minutes :) 15:14:15 <sledges> yo! 15:14:28 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting