09:00:24 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 5th of August 2016
09:00:24 <merbot> Meeting started Fri Aug  5 09:00:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
09:00:24 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:00:31 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-August/007338.html
09:00:36 <abranson> He heard you!
09:00:38 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect.
09:00:48 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes) . Please prefix your name/handle with # info
09:01:16 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Community Manager, Doing many stuff at once.
09:01:29 <ArmsOfSorrow> #info Krzysztof Lesiak, community member, application developer
09:01:41 <chriadam> #info Chris Adams, sailor, will have to leave in about 25 mins so will miss the last half of the meeting.
09:01:55 <Sage_> #info Marko Saukko, Sailor @ Jolla
09:01:58 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, C as Community, "asiaatunteva"
09:01:59 <nh1402_work> #info nh1402, community member
09:02:04 <taaem> #info taaem, Community, porter
09:02:18 <M4rtinK> #info Martin Kolman, community, modRana developer
09:02:21 <JvD_> #info Tommi Keisala, community
09:02:23 <ljo> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community member, porter
09:03:33 <veskuh> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager at Jolla
09:03:34 <SfietKonstantinW> #info Lucien Xu community member
09:03:43 <ghosalmartin> #info Martin Ghosal...aarch64 hopeful
09:03:45 <SfietKonstantinW> o/ veskuh
09:03:45 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, resident auswegian
09:04:08 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla
09:04:40 <kat6> #info Vishnu, community member
09:05:02 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson, sailor on a plane
09:05:15 <SfietKonstantinW> on a plane, wow :O
09:05:16 <Lapointe> #info Lapointe, community member
09:05:30 <abranson> Imminent flight mode :)
09:05:38 <Jaymzz> Moving on in 30 sec :)
09:05:53 <kat6> its funny that if you're on a plane, you're out of the plane
09:06:06 <Jaymzz> #topic Upgrading to Bluez 5 (5 minutes, asked by: ArmsOfSorrow)
09:06:14 <Jaymzz> #info Is there a plan/timeframe to update to bluez 5? I'm developing an application using QtBluetooth and I'd like to use the same connection setup code for Linux PC, Sailfish and Android, but that library does not work in Sailfish and I was told it's not going to be fixed for bluez 4. Also, is there anything I, as a developer, can contribute to that issue?
09:07:29 <nh1402_work> ArmsOfSorrow: you have the floor
09:08:03 <ArmsOfSorrow> alright. so, I have seen that there's some private repo on bluez5
09:08:27 <chriadam> Work is ongoing to update to BlueZ5.  Veskuh would know the timeframe.  You can see the progress in https://git.merproject.org/jpoutiai/bluez5 + https://git.merproject.org/jpoutiai/ofono + https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/kf5bluezqt (and some other places like connman + buteo etc etc)
09:08:30 <ArmsOfSorrow> just wanted to ask if there's anything I can do to help you bring bluez5/QtBluetooth to sfos
09:08:59 <ArmsOfSorrow> also, is QtBluetooth going to be usable on harbour?
09:09:12 <ArmsOfSorrow> or is that a different matter?
09:09:25 <chriadam> I think most of the work is in jpoutiai's basket at the moment.  not sure if there's anything concrete that the community can help with at this stage, but again veskuh would know better than I.
09:09:32 <Jaymzz> #info Work is ongoing to update to BlueZ5
09:09:41 <Jaymzz> #link https://git.merproject.org/jpoutiai/bluez5 + https://git.merproject.org/jpoutiai/ofono + https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/kf5bluezqt
09:10:10 <veskuh> It is not ready yet for next update, but 2.0.5 or 2.0.6 are likely candidates
09:10:36 <Jaymzz> #info Bluez5 is not ready yet for next update, but 2.0.5 or 2.0.6 are likely candidates
09:10:37 <kimmoli> ooc, does bluez5 bring LE support too?
09:10:37 <ArmsOfSorrow> alright, thanks
09:11:03 <Jaymzz> ArmsOfSorrow: Did you get your answer? :) Shall we move on?
09:11:14 <veskuh> kimmoli: yes, we target to have it.
09:11:17 <hge> afaik, yes
09:11:20 <kimmoli> \o/
09:11:22 <JvD_> cool
09:11:31 <sledges> would be nice to setup an env to enable help..
09:11:35 <SfietKonstantinW> yay
09:11:37 <Jaymzz> #info We target to have BT LE
09:11:53 <Jaymzz> Moving on to the next topic in a few sec
09:12:08 <Jaymzz> #topic Mobile Data expansion (5-10 minutes, asked by nh1402 / nh1402_work )
09:12:20 <Jaymzz> #info have an option to track mobile data usage, with time period, so if you're on a contract or pay as you go and have a limited data allowance, and have a regular renewal period, you put in the time period when it resets, and tracks your data usage. (this has probably been mentioned before, but the next thing has not), Also why don't we add a messaging mode option, under Mobile data, so if you're only planning to message people via
09:12:20 <Jaymzz> Whatsapp or whatever, then it goes into 2g mode, as it doesn't need much data, and can help save on battery life.
09:12:22 <r0kk3rz> sledges: +1
09:13:55 <chriadam> some part of this is being worked on at the moment, no ETA yet but if you keep an eye on https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/connectionagent you should see some activity on this front in the near future.
09:14:14 <Jaymzz> #info some part of this is being worked on at the moment, no ETA yet
09:14:19 <ArmsOfSorrow> pretty nice idea. sounds a bit like data sense in WP, which I used a lot
09:14:27 <Jaymzz> #link  https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/connectionagent
09:14:33 <SfietKonstantinW> what is datasense ?
09:14:47 <chriadam> the latter thing, adaptive connectivity levels, I'm not sure about that.  Most likely instead of choosing 2g, it'd be implemented as longer-spaced networking heartbeats, perhaps, but we're getting into territory I know nothing about, here, so, not sure.
09:15:04 <nh1402_work> yh so basically, have a 2g toggle in Mobile network settings when only planning to use low amount of data for things like messaging.
09:15:35 <nh1402_work> the other thing being Mobile Data usage monitoring, notifying the user when about to reach a pre-defined limit for the month
09:15:42 <sledges> and battery life
09:15:43 <ArmsOfSorrow> SfietKonstantinW, basically a tool that tracks your data usage and can limit your connection when over a certain threshold
09:16:09 <chriadam> the usage monitoring + limits is what is currently being worked on via connectionagent (plus UI in the jolla-settings app)
09:16:10 <nh1402_work> limit/disable till the next cycle
09:17:35 <nh1402_work> how far are the limits going to go?, disabling background data usage maybe even per app?, or just a data usage limit?
09:17:36 <M4rtinK> could be useful, especially when roaming
09:17:39 <Jaymzz> #info the usage monitoring + limits is what is currently being worked on via connectionagent (plus UI in the jolla-settings app)
09:18:06 <sledges> chriadam: could one on a public release sfos, contribute to work in connectionagent?
09:18:34 <chriadam> sledges: yes, definitely possible.  ping mjones.
09:19:16 <Jaymzz> Seems like we can move on soon :)
09:19:19 <sledges> chriadam: cool! is he on freenode?:)
09:19:36 <r0kk3rz> nh1402_work: is there a TJC about this?
09:20:00 <nh1402_work> r0kk3rz: I haven't personally created one yet, no
09:20:20 <chriadam> nh1402_work: I don't know what the granularity of the feature is supposed to be, or what is possible with our stack currently.  you'd have to ask mjones.
09:20:35 <nh1402_work> but there is this https://together.jolla.com/question/82959/mobile-data-usage-limitbackground-data-usage-toggle/
09:20:45 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/82959/mobile-data-usage-limitbackground-data-usage-toggle/
09:21:00 <kat6> about the 2G toggle, do you mean a feature where, everytime you message, a 2G network is chosen?
09:21:05 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes :)
09:22:02 <nh1402_work> kat6: either that or a switch that overrides the preference
09:22:33 <Jaymzz> I'll give this a bit more time since this meeting is going to be short anyway. 5 more minutes.
09:22:35 <chriadam> ^ nh1402_work mjones will know
09:22:42 <sledges> perhaps it dowsizes to 2g when bandwidth is not actively used
09:23:07 <nh1402_work> sledges: bingo
09:23:21 <mjones> nh1402_work: plan is to use a hard limit on total data usage
09:23:30 <mjones> nh1402_work: no per app limits at this stage
09:24:01 <kimmoli> and hope all this can be easily opt-out? i.e. always use all data bandwith that is available?
09:24:14 <abranson> Maybe a drop to 2g after a certain proportion of your mobile quota is used
09:24:25 <nh1402_work> would this also monitor Alien Dalvik' usage
09:25:10 <OhDaeto_> nh1402_work: coll idea!
09:25:15 <nh1402_work> or just the Sailfish side
09:25:16 <kat6> if it is not a 'remaining data' based thing won't the battery drain be high?
09:25:27 <abranson> Doesn't android have some sort of 'frugal mode' where you can tell apps to minimize their usage
09:25:44 <mjones> nh1402_work: it is using the same data counters we currently employ. tbh I don't know for certain that they cover android
09:25:48 <Jaymzz> #info plan is to use a hard limit on total data usage, no per app limits at this stage
09:25:48 <abranson> Or was that symbian
09:25:53 <nh1402_work> abranson: yes, not sure if it's available in Alien Dalvik
09:26:15 <nh1402_work> unless that is just CyanogenMod
09:26:23 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes remaining, please wrap up :)
09:26:23 <nh1402_work> but I believe it's in AOSP
09:26:59 <M4rtinK> just a note: slower connection (2G/3G) instead of a faster one (4G) can drain battery more
09:27:09 <M4rtinK> as the radio needs to be active longer
09:27:37 <M4rtinK> to transfer the same amount of data, at least AFAIK
09:27:51 <M4rtinK> so it can be a trade-of
09:27:52 <nh1402_work> a basic limit is a start, maybe we can discuss later on about expanding it, I'll open a TJC post about it, or modify the one I linked earlier
09:27:59 <chriadam> ok, I gotta run - thanks everyone, sorry I had ot head off early
09:28:20 <nh1402_work> M4rtinK: My thinking was to have 2G only for things like text based messaging, it should save battery there
09:28:29 <Jaymzz> nh1402_work: Need to move on to the next topic in 30 sec
09:29:12 <Jaymzz> nh1402_work: you can talk about this further in geneal discussion in 10 mins
09:29:22 <Jaymzz> #topic Updates to the Intex Aqua Fish and the role of Intex in pushing updates (5-10 minutes, Asked by kat6 )
09:29:32 <Jaymzz> #info There has been no communication about whether or not the Aqua Fish will be receiving updates as and when released. There have also been reports that enabling Early access to Sailfish OS releases does not work on the Aqua Fish (I haven't yet verified this). Also, will it be routed through Intex? Speaking of Intex, there is enabled, a repo by the name customer-intex. I assume Intex decides what to push through there. Is there any
09:29:32 <Jaymzz> regulation on what a 'partner' can put in its 'space' ?
09:29:41 <mjones> I have to go. I'll check the TJC post
09:29:52 <Jaymzz> Thanks mjones for joining
09:30:03 <r0kk3rz> thanks mjones!
09:30:05 <Jaymzz> kat6: The floor is yours :)
09:30:51 <kat6> Thanks :)  Yes, so I think my primary question is about how it is that updates will reach the Aqua Fish
09:31:49 <dr_gogeta86> kat6, scared by fragmentation
09:32:33 <M4rtinK> there are certainly many mistakes Android did in this regard that should be avoided in Sailfish OS
09:32:55 <veskuh> #info We target to make updates available together with Intex.
09:33:02 <kat6> dr_gogeta86 yep, which is why I put in mu primary question
09:33:30 <veskuh> #info The updates would come from Jolla, but it will be collaboration with Intex.
09:33:34 <kat6> Okay, so what exactly does that mean?
09:33:38 <dr_gogeta86> kat6, i'm talking by my self
09:33:56 <dr_gogeta86> even ported device got lastest upgrades ...
09:34:16 <dr_gogeta86> this can assure you ?
09:34:23 <r0kk3rz> dr_gogeta86: ported devices arent customer devices though
09:34:50 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: what happens if the intex made stuff (that are in the intex repo) conflicts with an update ?
09:35:03 <dr_gogeta86> ^ the real thing
09:35:03 <M4rtinK> SfietKonstantinW: +1
09:35:06 <dr_gogeta86> +1
09:35:11 <veskuh> SfietKonstantinW: We manage that repo.
09:35:21 <veskuh> No change of conflict
09:35:47 <elfio> how long is going to be supported?
09:35:48 <M4rtinK> veskuh: good choice ;-)
09:36:03 <kat6> veskuh Oh, that was what I wnated to know
09:36:14 <SfietKonstantinW> cool :)
09:36:16 <elfio> is there a close limit like with android phones?
09:36:31 <Jaymzz> 3 minutes remaining on this one
09:37:06 <nh1402_work> And with more licensee's coming in, how will that affect the update process, will you have to wait for all of them to give the green light?
09:37:07 <kat6> And what about updates to the phone? Are they at the same pace? Or will it wait for Intex in some way?
09:38:27 <Jaymzz> 1 min
09:39:01 <veskuh> nh1402_work: It gets more complex for sure, our target is to have SW as close as possible for all variants and phones.
09:39:18 <Jaymzz> #info our target is to have SW as close as possible for all variants and phones.
09:39:28 <Jaymzz> Alright that's a wrap for that topic
09:39:31 <r0kk3rz> having defined integration points like PartnerSpace will help things
09:39:38 <Jaymzz> Moving on to the next one
09:39:47 <M4rtinK> AFAIK the hardware adaptation is quite separate and even has separate versioning
09:39:48 <Jaymzz> #topic General Discussion (10 minutes)
09:39:52 <veskuh> r0kk3rz: Yes, and we have moved Sailfish to have more and more of those.
09:39:58 <M4rtinK> so I guess it should work at least in theory
09:40:08 <sledges> customer-intex also jolla gatekept
09:40:39 <sledges> repo is mainly for graphics and content
09:40:56 <elfio> Is there any news about port being allowed to use jolla store?
09:41:05 <r0kk3rz> veskuh: yes its a good idea :)
09:41:22 <locusf> eekkelund: you apparently didn't file a topic about mic not supporting lvm?
09:41:37 <sledges> elfio: pketo is back from vac so hopes are high:)
09:41:45 <kimmoli> yay
09:42:00 <elfio> :D
09:42:18 <nh1402_work> M4rtinK: back to your point about switching to 2G when limit being breached, I agree, that may increase battery consumption due to longer usage but the other way to look at it is that the data usage will go down as 2G is slow
09:42:25 <dr_gogeta86> locusf, kindly asked in private for that
09:42:35 <dr_gogeta86> but you aren't the only one
09:43:17 <pketo> yep :) target is to work on things related to the store access during this month
09:43:53 <elfio> pketo: I'm glad to read it!
09:44:48 <r0kk3rz> pketo: yaaay
09:44:48 <dr_gogeta86> status on qt 5.6 ?
09:44:48 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: do you know who have access to this repo https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-polkit-agent ?
09:44:52 <eekkelund> locusf, sorry I completely forgot :(
09:46:00 <nh1402_work> dr_gogeta86: +1
09:46:32 <SfietKonstantinW> dr_gogeta86: +2
09:46:34 <locusf> eekkelund: np, next time, didnt even remember there was a meeting today :)
09:46:47 <eekkelund> Me neither.. :)
09:46:47 <veskuh> SfietKonstantinW: Hmm.. jpetrell or sage has admin access to the group
09:47:27 <SfietKonstantinW> ok good to know
09:47:28 <SfietKonstantinW> thanks :)
09:48:08 <Jaymzz> Alright, we done? Let's talk about the next meeting
09:48:13 <veskuh> dr_gogeta86: Upgrade is going quite well as far as I know.
09:48:27 <r0kk3rz> veskuh: \o/
09:48:38 <veskuh> dr_gogeta86: So I think it will be ready in next 2-3 months
09:48:39 <elfio> great!
09:48:50 <SfietKonstantinW> ok
09:48:54 <SfietKonstantinW> we have an ETA wow
09:48:54 <SfietKonstantinW> :)
09:49:01 <Jaymzz> #info Qt 5.6 Upgrade is going quite well as far as we know
09:49:02 <veskuh> Much less dramatic than our previous Qt updates
09:49:14 <abranson> I heard ubuntu touch are almost ready to go with 5.6 too, so we'll finally be aligned.
09:49:14 <r0kk3rz> SfietKonstantinW: we always have an ETA. "SoonTM"
09:49:18 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: what help do you expect from us ?
09:49:31 <OhDaeto> Please checking pull requests in mer-core/perl
09:50:01 <M-schmittlauch> Any progress in plans about opensourcing SFOS and Silica?
09:50:15 <Jaymzz> Guys no more questions please , we are out of time
09:50:30 <kat6> M-schmittlauch +1
09:50:32 <veskuh> SfietKonstantinW: mjones, chriadm and others would know better what is the best way to help
09:50:34 <Jaymzz> veskuh shall answer the two last questions and we will move to the next one
09:51:03 <SfietKonstantinW> veskuh: ok
09:51:30 <nh1402_work> also I just updated the TJC post https://together.jolla.com/question/82959/mobile-data-usage-limitbackground-data-usage-toggle/
09:51:50 <Jaymzz> veskuh shall we move on?
09:52:20 <veskuh> M-schmittlauch: The summer vacations have delayed the preparations a bit so no news today.
09:52:44 <Jaymzz> Okay everything is answered now. Moving on
09:52:47 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting time and date
09:52:53 <Jaymzz> Any proposals?
09:53:03 <M4rtinK> veskuh: so that means it is still at least planed ? ;-)
09:53:19 <Jaymzz> I will be on vacation from 15th of Aug for 2 weeks
09:53:38 <veskuh> M4rtinK: Yes, for sure
09:53:47 <nh1402_work> so will I from 12th for 3 weeks
09:54:06 <veskuh> M4rtinK: decission making process just takes time
09:54:20 <Jaymzz> What do you guys think about having the next meeting during September? maybe one month from now?
09:54:44 <ArmsOfSorrow> Jaymzz, sounds good
09:54:52 <OhDaeto> in first days
09:55:16 <Jaymzz> Monday 5th of September, 09:00 UTC?
09:55:25 <Jaymzz> Or does anyone wants to change the time?
09:55:47 <OhDaeto> ok
09:55:49 <ArmsOfSorrow> I think it's ok
09:56:04 <veskuh> ok
09:56:08 <M4rtinK> veskuh: cool! :)
09:56:12 <Jaymzz> Alright then! Cool
09:56:47 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting is going to be held on Monday, 5th of September at 09:99 UTC
09:56:55 <Jaymzz> dammit
09:56:57 <M4rtinK> veskuh: & really looking forward to it happening (& I'm sure I'm not the only one ;-) )
09:57:00 <Jaymzz> #undo
09:57:00 <merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x7948850>
09:57:12 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting is going to be held on Monday, 5th of September at 09:00 UTC
09:57:38 <Jaymzz> We shall end the meeting in one minute.
09:57:48 <Jaymzz> Thanks everyone, an email will follow as usual.
09:58:13 <Jaymzz> A small note: Next time, please dedicate more than 5 minutes to your topics, It takes 2 minutes to read the info only! Thanks
09:58:17 <veskuh> thanks
09:58:24 <JvD_> thank you
09:58:31 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting