09:00:43 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 31st of October 2016 09:00:43 <merbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 31 09:00:43 2016 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 09:00:43 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 09:00:54 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-October/007478.html 09:01:04 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect. 09:01:18 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes) . Please prefix your name/handle with # info 09:01:24 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, community, porting, tohs, apps and stuff 09:01:28 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Community Manager, Jolla 09:01:46 <luen> #info Erik Lundin, community 09:01:48 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community member 09:01:48 <mattaustin> #info Matt Austin, community, developer, python 09:01:48 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen, community, ports and stuff 09:01:56 <marmistrz> #info Marcin Mielniczuk, community member 09:02:11 <mal-> #info Matti Lehtimäki, community, porter 09:02:16 <atlochowski> #info Andrzej Lochowski, community 09:02:30 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, hw and l10n @ Jolla 09:02:42 <Venty> #info Martin Ebnoether, User and Fanboy 09:02:56 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla 09:03:44 <nh1402> #info Nadir Hanid, community, sfdroid 09:04:17 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community 09:04:17 <chriadam|windows> #info Chris Adams, developer @ Jolla 09:05:30 <Jaymzz> 1 more minute and we'll move on to the first topic 09:06:21 <Jaymzz> #topic Future of SailfishOS ports - new devices (10 minutes, asked by marmistrz ) 09:06:33 <Jaymzz> #info Most new devices have an aarch64 CPU and run CM13, which Sailfish doesn't support. Can we expect a aarch64 Sailfish and CM13 compatibility, if yes: when? 09:07:21 <r0kk3rz> #info lbt can't make the meeting but wants to mentions that mer:core's aarch64 port is looking much better and we're on track for an up-to-date core for armv7hl/i586/aarch64/x86_64 09:07:40 <Jaymzz> Thanks r0kk3rz 09:07:50 <marmistrz> Does Jolla plan to maintain official aarch64 SFOS? 09:07:51 <sledges> community has made breakthrough in libhybris https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/791586085826625536 09:08:05 <sledges> for android 6 09:08:10 <Jaymzz> #link https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/791586085826625536 09:08:24 <nh1402> but now Android 7 is out 09:08:48 <mal-> CM13 support is almost ready, I have made a CM13 based port which has almost everything working (the one pictured in that link), not all changes are yet upstreamed 09:09:08 <mal-> libhybris is still somewhat experimental for android 6 09:09:28 <Jaymzz> nh1402 Android 7 is not that mainstream yet. Minority of devices run it. 09:09:32 <nh1402> a CM13 rebase for Mako would mean krnlyng can start sfdroid work on it. 09:09:33 <r0kk3rz> mal-: whats the deal with libhybris? 09:10:17 <mal-> r0kk3rz: android 6 linker is still not in libhybris upstream, probably needs some cleanup and fixing 09:10:47 <sledges> krnlyng wrote stable libhybris android6 support, but it broke qt apps after cleanup:)) so needs a bisect 09:10:53 <locusf> thats usually the primary pain point when upgrading versions (AOSP, CM) 09:10:59 <sledges> marmistrz: same porters community is working on aarch64 on nexus 5x 09:11:24 <locusf> sledges: could armv7hl + aarch64 mongrel work? 09:11:43 <locusf> so aarch64 kernel + armv7hl userland 09:11:46 <mal-> I have plans to test CM14 porting also using the same linker used android 6, there is still no stable release of CM14 so it will be experimental for a while 09:12:04 <sledges> locusf: ghosalmartin has tried all permutations, but no success with mongrels 09:12:13 <locusf> sledges: ok 09:12:26 <locusf> full metal pedigree then 09:12:42 <nh1402> Jaymzz: but it is the Android version of the future. It would be best to get libhybris working on the latest version as soon as it comes out so new devices can get ported 09:13:01 <sledges> locusf: pure aarch64 needed, that's whu ghosal works with glacier ui/nemomobile as it already has aarch64 support, jolla's sfos is catching up behind the scenes:) 09:13:06 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: sledges: any word about aarch64 sailfish userland stuff? like Jolla things we cant build ourselves 09:13:16 <marmistrz> Jaymzz, +1 09:13:21 <Jaymzz> nh1402 I agree, but one step at a time :) let's get aarch64 done first! 09:13:39 <locusf> https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/nemo:devel:ux 09:13:50 <veskuh> marmistrz: Yes, obviously future HW at some point is 64-bit so we will support Sailfish on 64-bit HW. 09:13:51 <sledges> nh1402: most vendors that come to jolla will have aosp6, from that perspective 09:13:52 <NeKit> nh1402, what do you mean under mongrel? 09:14:00 <Jaymzz> #link https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/nemo:devel:ux 09:14:08 <locusf> nemo is ready 09:14:33 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes left on this. 09:15:28 <sledges> r0kk3rz: answered just before you asked:) 09:15:35 <nh1402> NeKit: I didn't say under mongrel 09:15:44 <NeKit> arm + aarch64 mix worked on OnePlus 2 with CM12 09:15:58 <marmistrz> Your estimate, when can upstreamed hybris Android 6 support & full aarch64 happen? 09:16:42 <sledges> marmistrz: when it's ready ;) communuty did monstruous job already 09:16:46 <sledges> thank you! 09:16:57 <marmistrz> thanks 09:16:57 <Jaymzz> Yes, thanks a billion. community <3 09:17:21 <sledges> PoC can already be shown really soon, and aosp6 lh upstream is just a polish away 09:17:30 <Jaymzz> #info pure aarch64 needed, that's whu ghosal works with glacier ui/nemomobile as it already has aarch64 support, jolla's sfos is catching up behind the scenes:) 09:17:32 <veskuh> sledges: marmistrz Yes, big thanks to community. Sooner the better :) 09:17:45 <Jaymzz> #info PoC can already be shown really soon, and aosp6 lh upstream is just a polish away 09:17:56 <Jaymzz> Alright guys, moving to the next topic 09:18:07 <r0kk3rz> #peoplepowered 09:18:07 <sledges> #info but arm+aarch64 hybrid worked on opo2 cm12 09:18:09 <Jaymzz> #topic Sailfish OS for Fairphone 2: Help willing developers to contribute 09:18:21 <Jaymzz> #info The Fairphone 2 has been out for a while and my perception is that it is among the most wished devices for full SFOS support (there where even rumours about official support). Given the interest, I'm pretty sure that there is more than one eager developer with the skills and will to contribute with testing and bug fixes, but all development so far appears to have been done by one person (mal-, as known on the Mer wiki). I have 09:18:21 <Jaymzz> some development abilities and have been using SFOS on the FP2 as my daily phone since the first alpha in March, but the threshold to actually contribute with testing and debugging troubles me. Let's talk about how to make the development process more visible and how to make it easier to contribute. Also, is Jolla investing any time in the project? 09:19:06 <Jaymzz> #info This topic is asked by luen and neds 15 minutes :) 09:19:30 <luen> First I would like to say thank you to those who are working on the FP2 porting! 09:19:52 <Yaniel> (that # info got cut short) 09:21:12 * kimmoli bows towards mal- 09:21:38 <sledges> it's a community port, so contributing goes through https://sailfishos.org/hadk 09:21:58 <Jaymzz> #link https://sailfishos.org/hadk 09:21:58 <mal-> I'm currently the only active porter working on FP2, I have been a little lazy pushing the patched repos to github so only the adaptation repos are on my personal github, I probably should finally push all of the repos to mer-hybris 09:22:01 <sledges> mainly joining #sailfish-porters channel; also fp forums 09:22:03 <chriadam|windows> specifically, what are the requirements for this effort? what skills do you need? what is the current status of the port, what remains, etc? 09:22:04 <luen> A lot of stuff is working, but there are some remaining issues (e.g. too weak vibration, display turns off on incoming call etc) that probably have to be solved before I could recommend it to non-geek users 09:22:53 <locusf> I keep hearing this "we need official support" so much my ears hurt 09:23:15 <r0kk3rz> locusf: +1 09:23:17 <locusf> its not going to get much more official if people don't start contributing in the issues that are existing already 09:23:17 <sledges> s/#sailfish-porters/#sailfishos-porters 09:23:51 <locusf> really everyone waits for the perfect solution to arrive just by Jolla snapping their fingers .. :) 09:24:01 <locusf> which is, I imagine, not so simple 09:24:02 <eekkelund> locusf +1 09:24:09 <locusf> even the community port is already very good 09:24:22 <locusf> sfdroid is working hard WRT getting android support 09:24:23 <r0kk3rz> locusf: dont forget its up to FP to actually licence the os... 09:24:28 <locusf> yes 09:24:49 <sledges> it als8 takes two (jolla+fairphone); we're working 8n agreement, but for now this remains community port, no ETAs as usual:) 09:24:57 <locusf> /rant over 09:25:00 <mal-> there are some issues on FP2 that need kernel expertise (the vibrator (I have a partial implementation of that but haven't finished it yet) and double tap to wake), compass issue is something odd 09:25:22 <mal-> call display issue is some bug in Qt as far as I know 09:25:23 <kimmoli> compass issue is also on onyx 09:25:26 <Jaymzz> #info it also takes two (jolla+fairphone); we're working on agreement, but for now this remains community port, no ETAs as usual:) 09:25:33 <kimmoli> i could help with vibra, but i dont have device 09:25:38 <luen> I would love to contribute, but have no clue where source code is, how to get a working dev environment, what files typically need to be tweaked etc. 09:26:02 <mal-> luen: the patched repos needed to build are currently only on my computer 09:26:29 <locusf> mal-: push push 09:26:35 <mal-> of course the patches can be applied by anyone but probably better that I push those to github 09:26:36 <locusf> we gotta help you out :) 09:26:39 <sledges> mal-, could you perhaps enable community to rebuild/reflash kernel and other HW adaptation layers to be able to chip in better? itherwise it's mostly about HADK document 09:27:05 <luen> mal-: would it be possible to write up some instructions on the Mer wiki with some basic "getting started" instructions for devs? 09:27:23 <mal-> luen: yes, after I get those repos to github 09:27:39 <r0kk3rz> sledges: hadk is all about CM, and it doesnt mention AOSP at all 09:28:01 <locusf> r0kk3rz: they don't differ _that_ much 09:28:02 <luen> mal-: thanks! 09:28:17 <sledges> r0kk3rz: that's why i said 'mostly' ;) no breakfast, just lunch:)) 09:28:27 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes remaining on this topic (which is the last topic!) 09:28:31 <r0kk3rz> sledges locusf: no, but if thats the case it takes 2 seconds to put AOSP instructions in there 09:28:39 <locusf> r0kk3rz: indeed 09:28:42 <sledges> luen: you can do 80% of prep from hadk pdf and joining our helpful irc 09:29:22 <mal-> FP2 port is using the custom AOSP sources from Fairphone so it's not exactly the same, I needed to manually patch those 09:29:22 <luen> sledges: thanks, I will check that out 09:29:28 <chriadam|windows> step by step instructions for this particular case would nonetheless lower the bar to entry for newcomers a lot, so thanks for volunteering to do that, mal- :-) 09:29:32 <locusf> #sailfishos-porters is hands down one of the best communities I've come across 09:29:38 <locusf> theres always help there 09:30:10 <sledges> and sfdroid/libhybris aosp6 b7rthplace;) 09:30:14 <Jaymzz> #info FP2 port is using the custom AOSP sources from Fairphone so it's not exactly the same, I needed to manually patch those 09:30:15 <r0kk3rz> luen: yeah join the porters channel, and start asking questions, we'll get you up and running 09:30:59 <itdoesntmatt> hi to all 09:31:33 <mal-> most of the remaining issues are either kernel related or middleware, the adaptation layer is quite good otherwise 09:31:45 <sledges> chriadam|windows: +1! 09:31:47 <Jaymzz> #info most of the remaining issues are either kernel related or middleware, the adaptation layer is quite good otherwise 09:32:27 <luen> I'm not too much into IRC. It's probably good for getting in touch with people, but stuff that more than one may ask about should probably be documented in a less volatile way. 09:32:32 <kimmoli> tip; to search logs (with google at least) use site:www.merproject.org/logs/#sailfishos-porters/ and your issue, part of errormsg... 09:32:52 <kimmoli> everything is logged 09:32:52 <Jaymzz> #link www.merproject.org/logs/#sailfishos-porters/ 09:33:25 <r0kk3rz> luen: theres also faq pirate pads, and other stuff documenting tribal knowledge 09:33:44 <sledges> luen: it's the ature of porting - involved process, per-dev7ce peculiar issues, hence irc works best 09:33:50 <kimmoli> see ¤sailfishos-porters -channel /topic 09:33:55 <sledges> sorry for typos, on the road 09:34:32 <Jaymzz> Alright time's up for this one :) any final comments? 09:34:43 <mal-> I will have to make a new release since the last release was quite long time ago 09:35:08 <Jaymzz> #info mal- to make a new release for FP2 soon 09:35:09 <luen> mal-: Thanks again for your work! :) 09:35:14 <sledges> aosp porting pad for fp would be best, may even land in hadk 09:35:59 <abranson> and it wouldn't hurt to let Fairphone know you're still waiting for official Sailfish on their phone! 09:36:23 <sledges> keep pinging! 09:36:32 <Jaymzz> Alright, moving on 09:36:34 <Jaymzz> #topic General Discussion (15 minutes) 09:36:44 <sledges> one more nail was the ready Dutch translation ;) by community! 09:36:46 <sledges> of sfos 09:37:33 <chriadam|windows> regarding the CalDAV/CardDAV community contributions activity, we now have a VM set up in the mer infra, and dr_gogeta86 has installed a docker compose env on it, and (I believe) that some services are running on it. 09:37:35 <sledges> (fp is Dutch who didn't know) 09:37:42 <kimmoli> someone just should convince dutch prinzess to use sfos 09:37:54 <chriadam|windows> david is working on setting the dns entries up properly, and then I can start testing 09:37:55 <kimmoli> chriadam|windows: << really? 09:37:56 <chriadam|windows> so that's a huge step 09:38:00 <sledges> is she already using fp?:)) 09:39:27 <chriadam|windows> if you're interested in helping with testing (manual testing against the test servers, or adding unit tests to the existing plugins, etc) please be in this channel on IRC this time next Monday ;-) 09:39:38 <chriadam|windows> I'll send an email to the sailfishos-developers list about it, too. 09:44:03 <Jaymzz> Okay, seems like there ar eno more discussions going on 09:44:14 <sledges> i'll just leave thishere: https://openrepos.net/content/martonmiklos/nederlands-community-translation-jolla 09:44:32 <Jaymzz> #link https://openrepos.net/content/martonmiklos/nederlands-community-translation-jolla 09:44:57 <Jaymzz> I'll give this 2 more minutes, if there were no discussions, I'll move on to the next part 09:45:11 <sledges> expect to receive all other languages tht are in https://translate.sailfshos.org community-made 09:45:15 <sledges> in that repo 09:47:26 <Jaymzz> Moving on :) 09:47:28 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting date (5 min) 09:48:15 <Jaymzz> Proposal: November 21st (Monday) same time? suggestions? 09:48:46 * kimmoli +1 09:48:57 <kimmoli> i mean that is ok, not +1h 09:49:05 <Jaymzz> 3 more votes and we're set :) 09:49:06 <kimmoli> for me 09:49:13 <chriadam|windows> sounds fine for me 09:49:19 <Jaymzz> 2 more 09:49:31 <sledges> +0100 not +0100h for me too 09:49:34 <r0kk3rz> aye aye captin 09:49:50 <Jaymzz> Alright! We're set :) 09:49:55 <ljo_> +1 09:50:16 <Jaymzz> #info next meeting will be held on Monday, 21st of November 2016 at 0900 UTC 09:50:22 <kimmoli> thanks for Jaymzz being so polite host o/ 09:50:27 <Jaymzz> Thanks everyone for joining this meeting 09:50:31 <Jaymzz> Kimmoli <3 09:50:35 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting