09:00:44 #startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration meeting, 5th of December 2016 09:00:44 Meeting started Mon Dec 5 09:00:44 2016 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 09:00:44 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 09:00:58 #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-December/007574.html 09:01:07 I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect. 09:01:17 #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes) . Please prefix your name/handle with # info 09:01:26 #info James Noori, Community Manager, Jolla 09:01:35 #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community 09:01:51 #info Lewis Rockliffe, community 09:02:06 #info Chris Adams, developer at Jolla 09:02:07 #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager, Jolla 09:02:09 #info Claudio Campeggi, community member 09:02:36 c-la_: just to confirm, you are C_la on tjc right? 09:03:03 #info Rodolphe Sequeira, community member 09:03:10 #info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla 09:03:16 @chriadam how can I open a private chat with you? I'm on jolla phone and unable to find out how to 09:03:32 #info Andrzej Lochowski, community member 09:03:39 #info Damien Caliste, community 09:03:41 #info Hongwei Ge, sailor 09:04:22 Jaymzz: yes I'm on irc using jolla phone and can't find a way to change username, I'm c_la on tjc 09:04:35 c-la_: alright thanks! 09:04:57 Jaymzz: sorry about the inconvenience 09:05:13 c-la_: It's absolutely fine :) 09:05:30 #info Simonas Leleiva, hw'n'l10n @ Jolla 09:05:55 #info Kimmo Lindholm 09:06:21 #info Andrew Branson, dev @ Jolla 09:06:37 #info Fabio Isgro, community member 09:06:38 #info Pekka Vuorela, dev @ Jolla 09:07:03 #topic 2017 roadmap (30 min, asked by c-la_ ) 09:07:15 #info before last summer, soon after James became a sailor, he announced that a roadmap would have been released soon. Now that 2017 is approaching is there a chance to have the roadmap? 09:10:00 as stated in the description, I would like to know if there is a roadmap for 2017 09:10:35 and when/if will be public 09:10:37 #info short-term roadmaps are now indirectly revealed in translation rounds on pootle new UI strings, follow official announcement tags on TJC 09:10:51 #info Overall our Roadmap is a lot dependent on the customer projects we will sign up. And customer plans we really can not reveal. Therefore the content may change a lot. 09:11:13 #info At the moment it looks like the following items are important. 09:11:31 #info ARM 64-bit Sailfish OS and Android 6 adaptation 09:12:01 #info Security: FS encryption, Boot security, sandboxing 09:12:14 #info Corporate features: MDM, Cloud support improvements 09:12:33 #info Connectivity: BTLE, VPN 09:12:46 #info UI: Selected UI improvements on key apps like: Camera, Email, Calendar 09:12:59 #info Android Runtime: Continues improving compatibility with most popular apps and supporting more use cases 09:13:29 That’s the high level view at the moment for 2017 09:13:46 But like said it depends a lot on the customers we work with. 09:13:47 I suppose splitscreen multitasking is still off the cards then 09:13:59 thank you veskuh, very good answer 09:14:04 sounds like a number of things the community has been wanting for a while, thanks veskuh 09:14:25 veskuh wrapped it up really well, thank you! 09:14:26 nh1402: That would depend if we sign up a big screen project. 09:14:28 any open-sourcing items on the roadmap ? ;-) 09:14:50 nh1402: splitscreen is nice but many core functionality needs improvement first 09:15:05 it has been about a year since this has been mentioned in any capacity 09:15:09 does the security thing involve Polkit? 09:15:14 I agree with veskuh listed items 09:15:32 M4rtinK_phone_: Yes, that is one big item and we hope we can proceed in steps during next year 09:15:55 c-la_: I agree, I'm just wondering if it'll be implemented eventually, on a roadmap in a year or two maybe? 09:16:28 sounds good! hopefully it will finally happen this time :) 09:16:42 I suppose Polkit/permission system is covered under sandboxing. 09:17:04 nh1402: I think it will eventually be, just in more than one year :) 09:17:06 May I ask which libraries, QML components do you plan to accept in store ? 09:17:30 jpetrell: has been organising an activity to open up a variety of things, he could answer ^ 09:17:42 apis for harbour apps to use, I mean 09:18:17 any chance Flatpak or some other standardized sandboxing/bundling format will be supported ? 09:19:04 M4rtinK_phone_: personal opinion: I'd personally very much support using flatpak. first, we need SELinux support, though, and while some internal investigation has been done into that (JB#24717) more needs to be done. 09:19:57 chriadam: Nice, that sounds very promissing! :) 09:20:24 flatpak is also something an enterprising community member could investigate 09:20:48 dcaliste: other way, any specific you'd like to see accepted? 09:21:07 #info Open sourcing is one big item that we hope we can proceed in steps during next year (2017) 09:21:34 No not really ! I'm still using for my personnal projects some Gnome related libraries like libsoup or cairo 09:21:42 But I'm not really advocating for these. 09:21:53 It was more a general roadmap discussion. 09:21:58 IIRC Endless Computers are already using Flatpak tl distribute *all* application software on their machines 09:22:04 I would like to see the qtwebengine supported 09:22:18 Besides, I'm wondering if things like nemo-filemanager will be allowed. 09:22:22 dcaliste: anything that Sailorgram requires pls :D 09:22:40 After all, they are in-home developped :) 09:22:52 M4rtinK_phone_: yes. alex larsson sent me the video where the endless architect explained how they use ostree + flatpak for that. I forwarded it to lbt for opinions, and there are some difference between how we build SFOS via mic2 and how the ostree builds are done, but flatpak is definitely feasible IMO 09:23:19 but that is my personal opinion based on limited information ;-) 09:23:33 chriadam: cool! 09:23:40 im late 09:23:42 :D 09:23:46 dcaliste: rainemak is polishing a bunch of pickers and I believe they will be made available very soon 09:24:00 chriadam: cool 09:24:10 chriadam:A custom runtime could probably solve a lot. :) 09:24:12 so, files / images / videos / and also things like dates / times / etc. that may or may not obviate the requirement for nemo-filemanager. 09:24:31 which topic are we on currentlY? 09:24:43 tortoisedoc: see /topic 09:25:34 dcaliste, not during this year thou... early 2017 is the target 09:25:48 but soon 09:25:57 M4rtinK_phone_: especially since that would allow us to do BIC library changes on a per-runtime basis. 09:26:04 rainemak: not in a hurry, more of general info for future. 09:26:07 Thanks 09:26:11 Alright , seems that this topic is wrapped up already, c-la_ do you have anything more to add or do we move forward to your next topic now? 09:26:52 Jaymzz: thanks, we can move to next topic in my opinion 09:27:13 #topic Salfish devices and Jolla revenues (45 min, asked by c_la_phone ) 09:27:21 chriadam: yeah - you could have runtime per major release, etc. 09:27:22 without devices out I guess is very hard for Jolla to have a reliable and constant cash revenue over time. What are your plans, Jolla? Do you plan to release more hardware ? Open the licensing to third party hardware (so that one can buy a license for his ported device and have full sailfish experience)? Please inform us the community about how you plan to be safe from new cash crisis going forward. 09:27:23 how do I change nickname? :/ 09:27:33 c_la_phone: it's changed now :) 09:28:10 Jaymzz: because the cell coverage is spotty where I am :) 09:28:33 c_la_phone: slash nick and the name you want after that 09:28:35 c_la_phone: Ah, hope you can get to read everything about your topics 09:29:07 anyway, what I would like to discuss is how to enable jolla yo have more income 09:29:49 either by having more hardware for sale 09:30:26 or by having a paid app option on the harbour store 09:30:30 Jaymzz: #info the big blob pls?:) 09:31:01 or by selling licenses for ported devices, so a person can use exchange and jolla store on many ported devices sailfish is available for 09:31:13 nh1402: exactly 09:31:27 sledges: oops, sorry 09:31:37 cla is right. jolla needs to expand the userbase outside contract with goverments/enterprice and the lot. even if it targets that audience having a phone (HW) that will appeal to them to sell them will be IMO benefitial for both jolla and the number of enthusiats/community that want new HW 09:31:39 #info without devices out I guess is very hard for Jolla to have a reliable and constant cash revenue over time. What are your plans, Jolla? Do you plan to release more hardware ? Open the licensing to third party hardware (so that one can buy a license for his ported device and have full sailfish experience)? Please inform us the community about how you plan to be safe from new cash crisis going forward. 09:31:57 #info Jolla’s current and future revenues now come mostly from licensing partners. However, we will continue working on our community device programs, to bring new Jolla devices for Sailfish OS 09:32:09 thx bro 09:32:29 sledges: Thanks to you! 09:32:31 so far the HW has been -to put it mildly- bad and doesn't make the OS justice. 09:32:31 veskuh: 'community device programs' you mean like fairphone? or like jolla c? 09:33:28 As R&D person I cannot comment much more about our busines plans. I’d recoommend reading last week’s techcrunch article about Sailfish for Russia if you are interested in our business model 09:33:37 my point is that jolla can sell a license for ported devices but is not obliged to pay the lincensee until that license is actually claimed 09:33:47 we need to get community ports to some 3rd party reviews ? But is it worth without android support? 09:34:09 also an OS without a device one can easily buy is bad - see Open WebOS for example 09:34:30 r0kk3rz: Something like Jolla C. We are still also interested in partners like Fairphone. 09:34:51 so it would also enable the few philanthropists of the community to gove mobey to jolla legally, biying licenses and not using them 09:35:15 I know at least a few people who would go for a Jolla C like device 09:35:29 Both suggestions, licenses to ported devices and paid apps are interesting options too 09:35:36 kimmoli: thanks, I mentioned exchange but I didn't mention android support 09:35:38 but for who getting the Aquafish is too much of a hassle 09:35:39 i know i wouldnt go for a Jolla C like device :/ 09:35:47 in terms of HW that is 09:35:58 #info licenses to ported devices and paid apps are interesting options 09:36:19 veskuh: can we have a public statement from Antti about it? 09:36:46 ApBBB: good enough for now IMHO (typing on it right now) 09:36:47 ApBBB: me neither. fairphone has better hw for me 09:37:22 i could pay for the exchange license 09:37:55 would people pay decent margins over licensing costs? 09:38:25 it'd probably need to be a similar cost to a device for it to be worth it for Jolla 09:38:42 depends on the person and the cost involved 09:38:48 a jolla device needs to appeal not only to the SFOS enthusiat but also the other people. hence JC doesn't cut it IMO. We need a really good device. 09:39:56 then contact oneplus and make 3T -> 3S (with SailfishOS) :) 09:40:04 right now we need *any* device people can actually buy somewhere 09:40:14 r0kk3rz: I thought about 39 euro each license, so Jolla coud get a thick margin 09:40:14 speaking of hardware, I would like NFC and Force touch capability in Sailfish 09:41:16 c_la_phone: ok, say they sell 1000 licenses... would the amount received be greater than the wages of the person processing the orders? 09:41:17 a high end device would be nice, but we basically have no easily buyable hardware right now 09:41:46 veskuh I remember reading that jolla can't receive donations legally, licenses can be a workaround to that 09:42:05 is it true that Intex are not interested in releasing another device with SFOS? 09:42:28 r0kk3rz: I don't know, but once you set it up you have little operational costs 09:42:35 It’s a tricky balance to find a device with suitable specs, good price and volumes suitable for us, but we do know the need to have decent device. 09:43:26 and from my point of view the current jolla reveues from partners are not enough to make a profit 09:43:40 there's puzzlephone 09:43:43 what are the Problems with Fairphone? its been a half year now since there were first talks and demos of Sailfish running on Fairphone. Is it so hard to team up with them? What are the negotiation issues? 09:43:44 User734384: See the techcrunch article 09:43:51 User734384: where did you hear it from? 09:44:04 morning, sorry I'm late 09:44:16 Raymaen: ultimately up to them if they want to licence the OS or not, and release a device 09:44:20 stephg: morning :) 09:45:34 c_la_phone: he read it on techcrunch 09:45:50 User734384: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/29/jollas-sailfish-os-now-certified-as-russias-first-android-alternative/?ncid=rss 09:45:53 r0kk3rz: but a paid app model would work 09:45:57 #link https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/29/jollas-sailfish-os-now-certified-as-russias-first-android-alternative/?ncid=rss 09:45:58 I missed it, will read 09:46:25 nh1402: again, its a case of margins and volume, i think the volume on paid apps would be tiny 09:46:33 c_la_phone: I just pasted the link here so feel free to read it later :) 09:46:52 but on licenses for ported devices? 09:46:54 r0kk3rz: it would be something 09:47:00 Jaymzz: thanks :) 09:47:58 nh1402: so great, jolla gets another 100€ in the bank a month, thats neither here nor there. 09:48:01 veskuh: apart from decent you also need a world device. 09:48:07 We just have too many half-finished ports in my view: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris 09:48:19 PeterPost: feel free to help ;) 09:48:21 That doesn't help the volume either 09:48:37 I know, not that smart myself ;) 09:48:39 #link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris 09:48:50 PeterPost: ports are done by community members in there spare time, its not always that easy to get a fully working port 09:48:53 But isn't JollaHQ able to help with that? 09:49:16 they do 09:49:27 most visibly through sledges 09:49:28 r0kk3rz: little income is better than no income 09:49:40 martyonand will help more through pketo ;) 09:50:30 jolla store for ports, and needs more care after port is done, what's next. going i to maint.mode is less exciting, but will need to boost with jolla store available and instructions how to xda and grow users around 09:50:54 s/martyronand/and/ :) 09:51:04 fully agree with sledges 09:51:12 r0kk3rz: also with paid apps you attract more deveopers, it's not only about direct money revenue 09:51:40 more developers mean more attractive platform to users 09:51:57 It's too much diy atm... needs to be more user friendly to port a device 09:52:09 it may cost more but give benefits beyond the money 09:52:42 PeterPost: the porting process is better than it was for sure, but diagnosing problems is never going to be user friendly 09:53:05 and 90% of the porting effort is diagnosing problems 09:53:06 It's not the drag... it's the user that needs to port his device 09:53:23 Not the dev... the 'normal' user... 09:53:25 Jolla store for ports will probably open this week... was already quite ready last week, but did not wan't to mix the deployments with the 2.0.5 public release 09:53:35 pketo: \o/ 09:53:36 \o/ 09:53:42 woop 09:53:56 pketo: that's really good news! 09:54:03 \o/ 09:54:07 #info Jolla store for ports will probably open this week... was already quite ready last week, but did not wan't to mix the deployments with the 2.0.5 public release 09:54:21 And when 2.0.6? Or do we move to 2.1/3.0 instead? 09:54:29 \O/ 09:54:50 Due to the big arch change (as written in the changeling/blog) 09:54:55 PeterPost: numbers mean nothing eitherway 09:55:18 yeah, paid are not just about money to Jolla, but also to developers 09:55:18 PeterPost: That is going to be discussed in an upcoming topic :) 09:55:50 PeterPost: there are revealations in L10n Jolla announcements about future versions;) 09:56:07 could be an incentive to get more of them 09:56:14 sledges: some call em "leaks" lol 09:56:34 l10eaks 09:56:43 sledges: there we go :D 09:56:44 M4rtinK_phone_: i still wonder that when nobody, or few, actually purchase the app the initial enthusiasm will wane 09:57:12 sure 09:57:23 but it will be actually there 09:57:30 Paid apps only works when there is volume in the market... if dev receive 5 dollars/euro/crowns a month they will stop... 09:57:48 As said before, we need more working / ported hw 09:58:00 even just improving the current donation support would help 09:58:12 its rudimentary at best 09:58:18 PeterPost: true, but way better than the only option that is now flattr 09:58:24 PeterPost: having store added to ported devices is a step to the right direction I'd say 09:58:43 Jaymzz: definitely agree 09:58:44 flattr accoun integration, etc 09:58:48 And what about stable apps to move them from warehouse/openrepos to Jolla Store? 09:59:04 PeterPost: +1 09:59:10 People trust a Jolla Store more that an OpenRepos page 09:59:11 PeterPost: it'd be nice to think that with better ports and paid apps, it could snowball. but you can never be sure of that. 09:59:13 PeterPost: up to dev, if APIs allow. +1 for Sailorgram etc 09:59:16 PeterPost: +1 09:59:43 Atm I have to tell my gf it is safe... You should see her face... She prefers (and I understand fully) Jolla Store apps... 10:00:21 May not be better as OpenRepos apps, but it's the way how it is presented... Feels more like a company like Jolla is behind it and trusts the app to run on their platform 10:00:41 abranson: of course, but I'm pretty sure the userbase will increase quite a bit 10:00:47 PeterPost: with good reason, openrepos should throw warning signs 10:01:37 Who says they haven't build in a key logger or other malware in the openrepos app... 10:01:37 we would not need it as much if Jolla Store was not such a hassle 10:01:46 For a normal user, not safe enough... 10:01:54 + wasn't missing critical features 10:01:57 c_la_phone: apps in the harbour have to go throug a number of validators in order to be accepted, so this ensures at least a basic level of quality 10:02:01 like web version 10:02:26 c_la_phone: i'd really hope so, but it's still a gamble. 10:02:30 User734384: still a blob though 10:02:59 Which is fine they do more rigorous testing... but atm there is good openrepos apps out there that better be in the Jolla Store asap... 10:03:06 User734384: there could be any numver of hidden time/remote activated surprises 10:03:46 10 minutes left on this topic guys, time to begin the wrapup :) 10:04:01 for the record I would not mind submitting the application source to Jolla Store or OpenRepos to be built there 10:04:14 M4rtinK_phone_: yes, the validators are mailny about the package structure, but app isolation and containerisation as a different topic and as already mentioned is being worked on 10:04:24 eq. what all Linux distros do 10:04:53 if someone from the community could commit to concretely helping with investigating SELinux and flatpak support, I am willing to facilitate communication / organisation within Jolla for that activity. 10:05:02 someone/multiple someons 10:05:04 M4rtinK_phone_: Personally I think that is better 'security' than sandboxing apps. 10:05:04 User734384: that's true 10:05:07 Jaymzz: I'm okay, feel free to move on when others are okay as well :) 10:05:25 okay here too 10:05:25 abranson: only if someone actually looks at the sourcecode ;-) 10:05:27 c_la_phone: alrighty, moving on soon then :) 10:05:50 abranson: and that takes manpower. or, writing scripts to sanitise the source - but that's not simple and leaves multiple vectors if done poorly 10:06:43 abranson: I think that ideally you want both 10:07:23 OK moving on -> 10:07:31 #topic Bluetooth tethering on Jolla 1 not working (15 min, asked by c_la_phone ) 10:07:38 #info Sorry to bring this up again, about 6 months ago I brought this topic to a community meeting and I've been told that since jolla 1 and Jolla C shared the same bluetooth components, when it would have been fixed it would ahve worked on both phones. Jolla C had it fixed but still does not work on Jolla 1. What can I do to help in getting this fixed? 10:09:03 #info Bluetooth tethering on Jolla1 has not been studied lately. BlueZ 5 work has been priority. There is some difference in connman. We will take a new looks once BlueZ 5 is getting better. 10:09:15 #info https://together.jolla.com/question/107787/11728-bluetooth-tethering-via-connman-no-longer-supported/ 10:10:02 r0kk3rz: Yes, no further info. 10:10:08 #link https://together.jolla.com/question/107787/11728-bluetooth-tethering-via-connman-no-longer-supported/ 10:11:01 this hss been answered privately by chriadam, a sailor is investigating it, an answer should be available approx by next week 10:11:34 c_la_phone: so that means we're done with this topic? :) 10:11:47 veskuh: timing on bluez 5? 10:11:53 #info this hss been answered privately by chriadam, a sailor is investigating it, an answer should be available approx by next week 10:11:59 is next topic, btw.. 10:12:14 Jaymzz: almost :) 10:12:15 well, more info should be available 10:12:18 not necessarily an answer 10:12:24 Thanks sledges :) 10:12:31 but jarko is investigating the connman things. 10:13:13 chriadam, dcaliste: sorry missed the question earlier. Regard opening APIs for Store, we have been looking for easy API picks like text linking (2.1.0), content and file pickers and thumbnailer (2.1.1 hopefully), but also prototyping harder ones like providing settings API (not there yet) 10:13:47 chriadam: yes,you're right, sorry for the bad writing 10:13:52 #info regarding the previous topic : Regard opening APIs for Store, we have been looking for easy API picks like text linking (2.1.0), content and file pickers and thumbnailer (2.1.1 hopefully), but also prototyping harder ones like providing settings API (not there yet) 10:14:30 Jaymzz: we can move on :) 10:14:43 Alright 10:14:43 jpetrell: good indications. Thank you for the hint. Nice items indeed for 2017 roadmap ;) 10:14:45 #topic Bluetooth LE implementation status (15 min, asked by c_la_phone ) 10:14:55 #info I would like to know if BTLE implementation is going forward and when it is expected to be released 10:15:13 veskuh: is there an eta? 10:15:25 for bluez 5 10:15:29 isn't that just getting bluez 5 working 10:15:53 #info BlueZ 5 support is progressing steadily. The biggest missing piece is audio. The release target would be in February for Jolla C. 10:16:49 And for other devices? 10:16:51 it's also available in https://build.merproject.org/project/show/mer:core 10:17:29 #link https://build.merproject.org/project/show/mer:core 10:17:42 PeterPost: The packages will be available, but it won 10:17:48 will BTLE work also for Android apps? 10:18:28 PeterPost: It won’t necessarily be enabled for all devices. For some recertification may be needed and that is a problem and for some the testing might not be finished yet. 10:18:51 thisisme: Not in february, we are investigating that later. 10:19:12 https://together.jolla.com/question/8589/proper-bluetooth-le-support/ 10:19:26 #info BTLE packages will be available but won’t necessarily be enabled for all devices. For some recertification may be needed and that is a problem and for some the testing might not be finished yet. 10:19:44 #link https://together.jolla.com/question/8589/proper-bluetooth-le-support/ 10:19:51 veskuh: is certification necessary? I mean, you can release Bluetooth le witout officially claiming ot btle 10:20:24 for example on jp01 would be enough.imho 10:20:55 c_la_phone: Our understanding has been that it is since we are changing so much of the BT stack. 10:21:39 #info certification is necessary since we are changing so much of the BT stack 10:21:56 What is the cost of cert btle? 10:22:12 Can we crowdfund it? 10:22:49 veskuh: my understanding is that certification is required if you change bt chip firmware, not sure about os libraries, but certainly you know it better :) 10:22:50 Official claiming you support it would also help developing a bigger user base in my view... 10:23:26 PeterPost: i thought about crowdfundig as well, also for aptX 10:24:59 c_la_phone: +1 10:25:12 5 mins remaining on this topic. 10:25:30 one certification for all Bluetooth related stuff 10:26:55 Would also be nice for WPA-802.1X though 10:27:35 PeterPost: yes ofc 10:28:08 Next topic :) 10:28:48 thanks, we can move to rokk3rz topic then :) 10:29:03 yes 10:29:14 #topic Upcoming Architecture Changes (20 min, asked by r0kk3rz ) 10:29:22 #info There has been talk about the upcoming major version of Sailfish including significant changes such as Qt5.6 and Bluez5, at a high level what will application developers need to know to prepare their applications for the changes? 10:29:47 And when is it expected to be released? 10:30:11 So how much time do we have to adapt? 10:31:29 #info Qt5.6 should be in next update. 10:31:58 Before xmas? 10:32:01 Maybe chriadam or sledges could comment on how to prepare? 10:32:17 PeterPost: it will be ready when it is ready :) 10:32:28 as usual... 10:32:42 Personally, I saw single rendering issue in Tweetian and fix was one line of QML. 10:33:10 sorry, was just busy. As topic states, what are some of the things that application developers will have to consider with things like the upcoming Qt5.6 and Bluez5 changes and any others you might have planned 10:33:18 I have a small tip :) Some Qt classes such as QDataStream need to be explictly included in 5.6. You get a compile error otherwise. 10:33:30 would battery life be improved, go down or stay the same with QT 5.6? 10:33:57 what new/newly allowed in Jolla Store APIs can we expect as a result of Qt 5.6 ? 10:34:12 ;-) 10:34:38 there are a couple of corner cases which are causing issues, e.g. QQmlValueType::metaObject() due to the Q_GADGET change in 5.6. That was qml-private exported symbol only, so shouldn't affect most people, but I have seen at least one case (related to QGeoCoordinate, I believe) which says that there may be some cases which can still hit this, using only public API. 10:35:17 the #include tip is pretty vital too ;-) 10:35:22 heh 10:35:32 there's an IO one too iirc 10:35:37 is it recommended people recompile and submit their apps to the store? 10:36:27 r0kk3rz: recompiling shouldn't* be necessary, but doing so will let you take advantage of any optimization in inline code 10:36:30 #info there are a couple of corner cases which are causing issues, e.g. QQmlValueType::metaObject() due to the Q_GADGET change in 5.6. That was qml-private exported symbol only, so shouldn't affect most people, but I have seen at least one case (related to QGeoCoordinate, I believe) which says that there may be some cases which can still hit this, using only public API. 10:36:34 *: unless someone messed up 10:36:49 nh1402: I haven’t noticed any difference. 10:36:56 r0kk3rz: my personal recommendation would be: test against the EA release. 10:37:29 w00t: so its probably a good idea in any case, even if visibly nothing has changed 10:37:50 r0kk3rz: can't hurt. although you then won't be able to run against older OS releases. 10:38:24 yes i suppose this will be fun for people still clinging on to the old UI 10:38:51 All official Jolla devices should be upgraded by people anyway... best for the environment out there... 10:39:06 So, no older os support is not a bad thing 10:39:22 Just don't do it the Apple way and make it slower on older devices... 10:40:15 Anything else we can expect besides qt5.6 and bluez? 10:41:03 about bluez5 and porters: currently with mal are fixing bluez-configs issue for 2.0.5, the fix will lay ground for upcoming bluez5 packaging, that porters will be able to enable for themselves on-demand and test in 2.1.0, more info to follow 10:41:31 #info about bluez5 and porters: currently with mal are fixing bluez-configs issue for 2.0.5, the fix will lay ground for upcoming bluez5 packaging, that porters will be able to enable for themselves on-demand and test in 2.1.0, more info to follow 10:42:39 r0kk3rz: Do you have anything more to add here? 10:42:42 (anyone else? long waits...) 10:43:10 Ok, move on. 10:43:12 PeterPost: I think we should move on to general discussion in a few seconds if nobody has anything more to add 10:43:30 Jaymzz: not in particular, was just a general concern out in the community 10:43:31 we have volunteer to host next meeting? 10:43:43 Alright moving on 10:43:46 #topic General Discussion (15 minutes) 10:44:06 so 10:44:20 kimmoli: I'll be here :) 10:44:51 Jolla watch? What is the potential? 10:45:27 the first watch that shares same gestures from its mother OS :) 10:45:36 RasberryPi running Jolla? 10:45:36 sorry was away; is qt the only big change in the upcoming update? 10:45:40 yes, excellent collaboration with AsteroidOS, great to see 10:45:50 veskuh : ^ 10:46:00 kudos to kido for Asteroid OS \o/ 10:46:08 waiting for "HADK-the watch edition" 10:46:09 \o/ 10:46:09 Will there also be a Smart-Pocketwatch? 10:46:24 kimmoli: it's just a phone on your wrist ;p UI is a different matter 10:46:30 Or an ebook reader? with e-ink screen? 10:46:31 looking forward to have fridge-enabled sfos :P 10:46:37 (more correct: a tablet on your wrist) 10:47:03 So, we all want an Sailfish running home... sure... but what is the real potential 10:47:08 Think about a smart TV with Sailfish OS, swiping your remote control :D 10:47:09 PeterPost: I'll do the rpi2/3 adaptation update, soonish 10:47:29 kimmoli: port asteroidos 10:47:34 locus: +many (but can give only +1 officially) 10:47:42 locusf: +many (but can give only +1 officially) 10:48:10 tortoisedoc: Well, BlueZ 5 packages will be available but not yet enabled. Of course there are bug fixes and new features too, but I’m not going to preannounce any features now :) 10:48:15 what port Sailfish to smart tv's with webos? 10:48:37 I have written on TJC yersterday a topic about google play services (15mn): any chance to discuss it in this meeting ? 10:48:51 veskuh: okay no problem :) , but I mean under the hood, nothing that should break "legacy" things? 10:48:56 No GooglePlay on my Jolla device.... 10:49:01 #info regarding previous topic : BlueZ 5 packages will be available but not yet enabled. Of course there are bug fixes and new features too, but I’m not going to preannounce any features now :) 10:49:03 We just need ported apps... 10:49:22 PeterPost: same here but good for basic users.. 10:49:31 RodSeq: where did you write it? 10:49:48 speaking of which, are Jolla planning to get Alien Dalvik to pass the SafetyNet API checks? 10:49:55 But in general... how can we get apk packages that actually work fine into the Android App Markets for Jolla? 10:50:11 Now you have to search the internet to find an apk somewhere, but when you install it, it runs fine... 10:50:33 Just don't use the Instragram/Facebook apps... they really mess up your Jolla running smooth... 10:50:46 RodSeq: Please add your topic to the main wiki page next time you are making an entry. Otherwise It'll be hard for me to spot 10:50:49 PeterPost: harbour supports APKs, has done for a long time now 10:51:02 Jaymzz: not everyone has karma to do that 10:51:20 Yes, so we have to get more APKs out there of popular apps into Harbour... how? Anyone good ideas? 10:51:44 r0kk3rz: in which case it would be good to message me personally at least one day before so I can add it myself. 10:52:06 Jaymzz: noted, other community members can do the deed as well 10:52:14 Yes please 10:53:16 Alright, seems like we're almost done here 10:53:19 PeterPost: I think aptoide does that job - Jolla can't really lift apks from elsewhere. it's up to the vendors of the software to submit to the harbour themselves. 10:53:27 Or not 10:53:32 so turingphone is dead before it got officially released? how does that affect jolla? 10:54:24 Raymaen: well obviously they wont be getting any money from turing. 10:54:34 Raymaen: Turing is not dead, they informed us that their FB page statement is not official. I don't have more details but they should get back to us and their fand/customers with more details soon enough 10:55:01 Not dead at all 10:55:02 https://www.reddit.com/r/turing_tech_support/comments/5fyao0/turing_phone_review_after_5_months/? 10:55:06