08:00:17 <Jaymzz_> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – May 3rd 2017
08:00:17 <merbot> Meeting started Wed May  3 08:00:17 2017 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
08:00:17 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:25 <Jaymzz_> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-May/007885.html
08:00:33 <Jaymzz_> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
08:00:42 <Jaymzz_> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
08:00:57 <Jaymzz_> #info James Noori, Community Manager at Jolla
08:01:02 <tbr> #info Thomas, Mer community
08:01:18 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling, comporterunity
08:01:27 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc, developer
08:01:35 <bshah> #info bshah, Plasma Mobile maintainer and Halium developer
08:01:48 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, sailor @ Jolla
08:01:59 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen, Nemo community
08:02:11 <juiceme> #info juiceme, general hacker
08:02:37 <eekkelund> #info eekkelund, Maemo Community Council, community dev
08:02:52 <pasko_> #info pasko, user
08:03:12 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community
08:03:14 <Venty> #info Martin Ebnoether, SailfishOS User
08:03:49 <leszek> #info Leszek Lesner, User + Dev
08:05:23 <Jaymzz_> #topic General discussion (30 min)
08:05:25 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, Community, Porter
08:05:29 <Jaymzz_> #info As we did not receive any new topics on the planning page for this meeting, we are holding a longer general discussion than usual.
08:06:59 <stephg> sledges: how is/are the Xperia ports coming along?
08:07:10 <sledges> stephg: steadily
08:07:15 <Jaymzz_> In case anyone wants new information regarding the Sony project, we are making solid progress and are on schedule :)
08:07:24 <tortoisedoc> so it seems there's a tablet resurrection discussion going on
08:07:28 <Jaymzz_> Oh, well, I pressed enter too late :P
08:07:28 <sledges> we'll share more information later in Q2
08:07:36 <stephg> Jaymzz_: beat you :P
08:07:41 <stephg> sledges: cool
08:07:45 <tortoisedoc> sledges : any info on that ^
08:07:52 <tortoisedoc> (that you can share)
08:07:52 <Jaymzz_> haha :) both stephg and sledges :P
08:08:14 <Yaniel> tablet resurrection as in actually producing a tablet or resuming the refunds? :P
08:08:34 <PureTryOut[m]1> producing a tablet iirc
08:08:36 <tortoisedoc> Yaniel : as this seems to be a non-jolla initiative, i'd say the former :P
08:08:40 <leszek> Yaniel: producing a new tablet based on the hardware design of the jolla tablet
08:08:52 <PureTryOut[m]1> independently from Jolla though
08:09:05 <juiceme> AFAIK "the tablet resurrection" is an operation not handled by Jolla at all
08:09:06 <phlixi_o> is it a bad idea to buy an xperia x right now? (of course it should run sfos later)
08:09:28 <Jaymzz_> Yaniel: That tablet is completely independent from Jolla. We are not commenting any further yet.
08:09:40 <r0kk3rz> juiceme: there was comments about adaptation work for jolla
08:09:42 <Yaniel> ah
08:09:55 <tortoisedoc> Its important to hear jolla's input on this, as it seems there's going to be money to given
08:10:09 <tortoisedoc> officially I mean (not here ofc9
08:10:11 <tortoisedoc> )
08:10:17 <juiceme> r0kk3rz, I see no need for any new adaptation since the HW is same as before
08:10:22 <r0kk3rz> i hope they're giving chen mates rates for finishing their tablet project
08:10:36 <tortoisedoc> r0kk3rz : define "they"
08:10:37 <r0kk3rz> juiceme: no 'need' perhaps, but there is a 'want' as its allegedly a bit rough
08:10:49 <Jaymzz_> Of course, we are aware of the situation and are investigating it further, it's just that nothing from our side is public yet therefore I can't comment on any specifics.
08:10:49 <r0kk3rz> tortoisedoc: jolla of course
08:11:11 <tortoisedoc> @Jaymzz_ : thats good info already, thanks
08:11:28 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: You're welcome :)
08:11:28 <stephg> #info re third party tablet: <@Jaymzz_> Of course, we are aware of the situation and are investigating it further, it's just that nothing from our side is public yet therefore I can't comment on any specifics
08:11:36 <juiceme> mmh, well but any changes to the tablet firmware/OS adaptation are going to be benefit of the original *and* the new one since they are same
08:11:46 <Jaymzz_> Thanks stephg, you beat me again :D
08:11:53 <tortoisedoc> juiceme : afaik : there's same hw as jolla tablet?
08:11:56 <PureTryOut[m]1> what does Jolla and the SFOS community think of the Plasma Mobile project? it's a promising chance on a fully FOSS interface, but it requires a newer Qt version than SFOS right now offers
08:12:13 <Coolg33k> for the Xperia, will there be devices with sfos embedded available to buy ?
08:12:14 <leszek> newer revision boards as far as I understood. Might be some hardware bugs fixed (like overheating of wifi and bt)
08:12:25 <juiceme> tortoisedoc, yes, it is the exactly same BOM as before
08:12:27 <tortoisedoc> PureTryOut[m] : what does the Plasma Mobile Project think of SFOS?
08:12:30 <r0kk3rz> PureTryOut[m]1: more power to them :)
08:12:46 <tortoisedoc> juiceme  : wow overheating fixed would be awesome
08:12:58 <Jaymzz_> #info (just to have the Xperia story logged properly) Sony Xperia project is being progressed steadily and we are on schedule.
08:13:37 <PureTryOut[m]1> tortoisedoc: nothing special I think. just a platform it could potentionally run on
08:13:44 <juiceme> tortoisedoc that would require HW redesign I think, so no change to heating problems. (I never had any overheating BTW...)
08:13:48 <tortoisedoc> Jaymzz_ / sledges : about Sony XPeria, is the intention to provide ROMs for flashing or deliver phones in unlocked modes, send phones with sfos...
08:14:08 <leszek> tortoisedoc: regarding plasma mobile as far as I am aware the plasma mobile project does not like the mer (rpm) base and the outdated packages. And then there is the problem with the not 100% FreeSoftware SFOS
08:14:23 <phlixi_o> is it a bad idea to buy an xperia x right now? (of course it should run sfos later) <<- in march the answer to this was "there will be news about this soon", now the next month is the last of q2...
08:14:47 <bshah> PureTryOut[m]1: tbf, both projects are different (this comment is not negative just to be clear)
08:14:55 <r0kk3rz> phlixi_o: that probably wont be finalised until the very end of the project
08:15:20 <PureTryOut[m]1> bshah: obviously. one is a DE and the other a full mobile distro
08:15:28 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: That is in the planning. We will announce our plans regarding delivering Sailfish OS to Xperia X later when we have all the puzzle pieces in the right place :) Everything is in consideration and in the end we will choose what is feasible for everyone.
08:15:34 <tortoisedoc> PureTryOut[m]1 : are you aware SFOS runs qt 5.6 nowadays?
08:16:18 <nh1402> will the Xperia X port support Vulkan?
08:16:26 <stephg> #info That is in the planning. We (Jolla) will announce our plans regarding delivering Sailfish OS to Xperia X later when we have all the puzzle pieces in the right place :) Everything is in consideration and in the end we will choose what is feasible for everyone.
08:16:30 <r0kk3rz> tortoisedoc: not new enough for plasma-mobile, they want 5.7, that said there is a 5.8 repo on OBS
08:16:34 <leszek> tortoisedoc: Plasma Mobile created kirigami as new UI/UX Framework that can be used on different platforms. Though I did not see any port for SFOS yet. Might be something interesting to try and maybe adapt in terms of making it more SFOS like from the UI perspective
08:16:47 <tortoisedoc> @Jaymzz_ ok great, it was mentioned at some point by someone (Antti iirc) that the next community device would have been from this XPeria land; any more info regarding this?
08:16:51 <bshah> tortoisedoc: yes, but since Plasma Mobile is still in development stage and uses the same kwin_wayland as we use on desktop we depend on qt5.7.. but well, this is something considerably off-topic I believe
08:17:12 <tortoisedoc> leszek : does it support Silica :P
08:17:22 <leszek> tortoisedoc: nope it doesn't
08:17:54 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: Yes, that is going to be the case. We are planning our next community device program and our choice is the Xperia X. How we will deliver is still unknown to the public but will be announced as soon as everything is secured in place :)
08:18:07 <tortoisedoc> cool!
08:18:13 <Jaymzz_> #info the next community device will be the Sony Xperia X as promised.
08:18:53 <tortoisedoc> okay so tablet we covered, community device  we have an update..
08:18:54 <juiceme> nice!
08:18:54 <tortoisedoc> how about
08:19:02 <leszek> How is the development of SFOS 2.2 ? Can we expect a new gstreamer version with it finally ?
08:19:02 <tortoisedoc> paid apps support in harbour?
08:19:12 <r0kk3rz> tortoisedoc: keep dreaming :)
08:19:20 * tortoisedoc is pulling out all the skeletons from their graves
08:19:33 <tortoisedoc> r0kk3rz : it does not need to come from jolla
08:19:36 <abranson> leszek: gstreamer 1.10.4 is the one we have in the latest branch
08:19:43 <tortoisedoc> could it be service-based?
08:19:49 <tortoisedoc> (like flatter but just not flatter )
08:19:56 <tortoisedoc> open?
08:19:58 <tortoisedoc> (of course)
08:20:11 <ced117> #info Cedric Heintz, community member (sorry, i'm late :D)
08:20:12 <LarstiQ> leszek: we're working on 2.1.2, not 2.2
08:20:13 <leszek> abranson: nice. This will fix the hickups with Youtube HD Streams then
08:20:15 <ced117> hello everybody :)
08:20:21 <leszek> ah 2.1.2 then :)
08:20:28 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: Currently we have a lot of work to do other than the paid app situation, our resources won't allow us to complete everything at the same time. For now, we are delivering to our customers.
08:20:54 <tortoisedoc> roger Jaymzz_ :)
08:21:14 <nh1402> leszek: when you say HD, do you mean 720p or 1080p?
08:21:18 <leszek> How is the progress on working on a global mimetype handling ? (I was informed more than 1 year ago via harbour that this is in the works)
08:21:30 <abranson> leszek: not sure - there may be bugs in gstreamer. we've just found and fixed one concerning video duration reporting
08:21:31 <leszek> nh1402: 720p
08:22:06 <nh1402> when is 1080p and above support coming for that.
08:22:22 <leszek> abranson: also if possible please look at vp8 and vp9 playback. I think this is now needed especially for youtube player apps (if you don't want to use the webbrowser [which supports it])
08:22:24 <PureTryOut[m]1> tortoisedoc: I am aware, but they want 5.7 minimum
08:23:13 <bshah> and 5.8 is too new :P (totally broken in terms of qt5-wayland)
08:23:18 <abranson> leszek: yes, there's already support for it in gst-droid by mal. would like to get that approved.
08:23:23 <tortoisedoc> bshah : oh?
08:23:28 <abranson> leszek: it's disabled atm
08:23:31 <jwalck> #info Jonatan Walck, community member
08:23:33 <tortoisedoc> bshah : how comes
08:23:48 <jwalck> sorry I'm late!
08:24:01 <ced117> you were not the only one jwalck ;)
08:24:06 <bshah> tortoisedoc: there are several regressions included in qt 5.8.x release which makes it impossible to use kwin_wayland... and qt is not going to have 5.8.1 release so...
08:24:08 <RodSeq> #info Rodolphe Sequeira, community member
08:24:30 <tortoisedoc> bshah : moving directly to 5.9?
08:24:34 <jwalck> ced117: not being alone is hardly a good excuse:)
08:24:44 <bshah> tortoisedoc: yeah
08:24:49 <locusf> hmm
08:25:02 <locusf> lipstick works just fine with 5.8 (compositor of sfos/nemo)
08:25:02 <leszek> anything on global mimetype support (like setting defaults for browser, mail client and so on which will work not only on the system itself but allow choosing native apps for opening from android apps)
08:25:16 <tortoisedoc> locusf : lipstick uses qt5-wayland from mer?
08:25:41 <locusf> tortoisedoc: it can use upstream qtwayland with patches to lipstick
08:25:45 <lbt> damn ... I forgot to put this in my calendar and have to go out.
08:26:03 <tortoisedoc> locusf : ah ok in that sense :9
08:26:10 <ced117> haha right jwalck
08:26:25 <tortoisedoc> so patching qt-wayland from upstream works fine
08:26:50 <locusf> tortoisedoc: no no, not patching qtwayland, patching lipstick
08:26:55 <Jaymzz_> 10 minutes left guys.
08:27:10 <nh1402> Is the splitscreen multitasking still shelved?
08:27:21 <ced117> any news regarding the partnership with Fairphone by any chance ?
08:27:38 <Jaymzz_> ced117: Nothing in that regard.
08:27:47 <abranson> i've got some super fresh news
08:27:54 <abranson> lbt just created this: https://git.merproject.org/mer-core-contrib
08:27:54 <leszek> nice
08:27:56 <ced117> alright Jaymzz_ :)
08:28:08 <Jaymzz_> #link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core-contrib
08:28:17 <ced117> oh, that's nice !
08:28:27 <abranson> the idea is that we can fork things from mer-core into there, but the projects there are maintained by community members
08:28:43 <tortoisedoc> locusf : ah!
08:28:58 <lbt> we can also build stuff from there on OBS and add repos to devices to make them explode
08:29:21 <LarstiQ> it makes us less of a bottleneck to get MRs accepted
08:29:28 <eekkelund> abranson, nice !
08:29:32 <tortoisedoc> still empty :P
08:29:37 <tortoisedoc> but nice!
08:29:39 <ced117> for now :)
08:29:40 <lbt> tortoisedoc: it's 10mins old
08:29:43 <tortoisedoc> ;)
08:29:44 <abranson> then we can bring things over into mer-core as and when they're production ready
08:29:44 <ced117> haha
08:29:56 <nh1402> I'll take that as a yes
08:30:10 <LarstiQ> nh1402: yeah
08:30:12 * tbr still has a qt 5.8 build on mer obs that would need some qt-wayland love
08:30:13 * tortoisedoc looking for a question
08:30:48 <tortoisedoc> Jaymzz_ : what's the thing with the China "ecosystem" (if you pass me the word); how does that impact harbour?
08:31:03 <tortoisedoc> i.e. will they open their own harbour?
08:31:08 <tortoisedoc> or will we share?
08:31:18 <tortoisedoc> will apps from harbour be available there+
08:31:40 <r0kk3rz> tortoisedoc: its china, they will want control
08:31:56 <tortoisedoc> r0kk3rz : correct, but control does not necessarily exclude harbour
08:32:19 <tortoisedoc> r0kk3rz : my concern is just, will our apps be excluded from that market?
08:32:47 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: That is yet to be disclosed. Things I can say about the China Consurtium at the moment: Things are going well and are moving forward. Things I can't yet disclose: Everything else. In other words, it's in very early stages to publicly comment on specifics, but I can assure you that things are moving fast :)
08:33:13 <tortoisedoc> Jaymzz_ : moving fast is promising, but not really addressing anything :P
08:33:33 <tortoisedoc> as in to moving to where :)
08:34:15 <stephg> tortoisedoc: regarding app exclusion even if it ends up being a parallel 'harbour' wouldn't you just submit your app to that in addition to the Jolla one?
08:34:28 <nh1402> is the China deal for Sailfish specifically in China, or does it also include Chinese phone manufacturers selling outside of China also, eg. ZTE ?
08:34:33 <tortoisedoc> stephg : who said you will be able to do so from outside china
08:34:48 <tortoisedoc> nh1402 + 1
08:35:08 <tortoisedoc> ofc there's always openrepos
08:35:13 <tortoisedoc> but well, openrepos :)
08:35:14 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: I understand! This can be a topic of its own. Let's give it more time and make a topic for it in an IRC meeting later on so we can address your questions as good as possible. As of now, progress is being made for bringing in different partners into the project.
08:35:43 <tortoisedoc> Jaymzz_ ok great, what I understand from this is that this is still in early stage, but is progressing :)
08:36:01 <Jaymzz_> nh1402: Again, that is still too early to comment on!
08:36:08 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: Yes :)
08:36:32 <Jaymzz_> But time's up for our general discussion
08:36:47 <tortoisedoc> Jaymzz_: great! apart of the Sony devices, outside of the china consortium, is there any plans for EU?
08:36:56 <tortoisedoc> this is still in? :P
08:37:11 <Jaymzz_> Let's have more topics for the next meeting! Anyone who has questions, can easily make their topics on the planning page: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
08:37:57 <abranson> Jaymzz_: I thought it was good to still have a general discussion, even when there are no specific topics, rather than postponing the meeting.
08:38:07 <stephg> abranson: +1
08:38:10 <r0kk3rz> you'll get better answers from jolla if you give them more than 10 seconds to prepare
08:38:20 <stephg> also true
08:38:24 <Jaymzz_> tortoisedoc: We are always in discussion with different potential partners, for now, the only public project is Xperia. There of course are discussions for more possibilities inside EU :) But we can't say anything until they are concrete
08:38:29 <tortoisedoc> thats a good point!
08:38:38 <Jaymzz_> abranson: Yes I agree! I won't postpone meetings anymore :)
08:38:52 <juiceme> +1
08:39:06 <tortoisedoc> yes this was pretty good! :)
08:39:32 <Jaymzz_> Awesome!
08:39:36 <Jaymzz_> Let's move on
08:39:44 * LarstiQ happy
08:39:47 <Jaymzz_> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
08:39:56 <Jaymzz_> Wednesday, 17th of May 2017 at 08:00 UTC, anyone? :)
08:40:00 <leszek> Is it known already if the Xperia X device can use the full potential of the camera ? (e.g. Sony disables some features on AOSP for the camera [needs some proprietary stuff I think]) ?
08:40:13 <leszek> hmm... :/
08:40:40 <tortoisedoc> leszek :put it in  https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
08:41:00 <ced117> i wont be available that day, but that's not a problem.
08:41:06 <Jaymzz_> leszek: For that, we need veskuh to answer, who is not here today. Please add your questions as topics so we can have a more organised discussion next time :)
08:41:20 <leszek> k
08:41:25 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz_: +1
08:41:32 <ced117> but right, excellent question leszek.
08:42:12 <stephg> leszek: I suspect we'll get the features that AOSP get and nothing more?
08:42:18 <Jaymzz_> Alright seems like no one (except for ced117 )has a problem with the timing for our next meeting. ced117 you can read the logs afterwards, I think it's better to keep it consistent like this :)
08:42:37 <Jaymzz_> #info Next meeting will be held on Wednesday, 17th of May 2017 at 08:00 UTC
08:42:38 <richdb> What about 3 year old bug? https://together.jolla.com/question/40725/call-ended-but-phone-is-still-processing-the-ending/
08:42:59 <ced117> yes sure Jaymzz_ :)
08:43:16 <Jaymzz_> richdb: Could you please add this as a topic for our next meeting? You can add it here: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
08:43:20 <juiceme> richdb, it is pretty difficult bug since not everybody haz it....
08:43:44 <Jaymzz_> Yeah I don't have it on any of my devices... (I used to have it on Jolla 1 but it is gone already)
08:44:17 <Jaymzz_> Anyway, thanks everyone for this meeting
08:44:32 <Jaymzz_> See you all in 2 weeks time! don't forget to add topics here https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
08:44:39 <Jaymzz_> #endmeeting