08:00:32 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – September 6th 2017
08:00:32 <merbot> Meeting started Wed Sep  6 08:00:32 2017 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
08:00:32 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:43 <Jaymzz> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-September/007989.html
08:00:57 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
08:01:08 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
08:01:18 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori - Sailor at Jolla
08:01:33 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling, community and porter
08:01:34 <dr_gogeta86> #info Fabio Isgrò - Community
08:01:37 <Mister_Magister> #info Mister_Magister - Mad porter and community member
08:01:38 <leszek> #info Leszek Lesner, Community Member and Developer
08:01:39 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm - Community
08:01:40 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community member
08:01:44 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, sailor at Jolla
08:01:48 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen, community
08:01:50 <piggz> #info Adam Pigg - chief xiaomi-mido porter
08:01:51 <Sugash> #info sugash community
08:02:21 <nh1402> #info nh1402, the reason for this meeting to be as long as it's going to be
08:02:40 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla
08:02:45 <tbr> #info Thomas, mer community member
08:02:47 <Mister_Magister> nh1402: lol but even without you we've got many topics today
08:03:11 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, mother of dragons, breaker of chains, and true king in the north
08:03:22 <M4rtinK> #info Martin Kolman, community & modRana
08:05:49 <stephg> r0kk3rz: lolz
08:06:24 <ApBBB> r0kk3rz: when you give birth to the next batch of dragons i want a spotted one
08:06:35 <dr_gogeta86> someone can spam the meeting out there ?
08:06:47 <r0kk3rz> dr_gogeta86: people did, i saw :)
08:07:05 <Jaymzz> First topic,coming up
08:07:10 <Jaymzz> #topic Newer version of GCC (Asked by nh1402 – 10 min)
08:07:29 <Jaymzz> info New information has come to light that you can set a flag to use an older abi version which should make it easier to get a newer version of GCC working. If a more detailed explanation of how the community could build and test it if Jolla don't have the people power to do it, then that would be appreciated.
08:07:51 <Mister_Magister> my beloved topic
08:07:52 <eekkelund> #info eekkelund
08:08:27 <Sugash> Jaymzz:  start ?
08:08:47 <nh1402> this is basically a follow up to last time, it's been mentioned that the community would have to do this if it was to move forward in Sailfish, but I was wondering what specifically would be needed to do, and how best to do it.
08:08:50 <Jaymzz> Sugash: What start? :)
08:08:53 <piggz_> sounds like a solution to me, i look forward to seeing gcc 7 in 2.1.3 ;)
08:09:45 <leszek> yeah that sounds reasonable especially as newer software depends on newer gcc versions being available for compiling (or clang)
08:09:52 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, sorry being late
08:10:16 <abranson_> #info Andrew Branson, me too
08:10:17 <Mister_Magister> is it impossible to have glibc4 and glibc 6 in the same time?
08:10:59 <dr_gogeta86> an approach like the old compat packages on rhel
08:11:00 <M4rtinK> we get latest GCC in Fedora all the time and we survive, so its doable
08:11:04 <tbr> it's not that much rocket surgery to get things going. I'd propose to set up a test project and start by rebuilding core parts of mer. I'm sure we'll find some people in #mer to help (including me, time permitting)
08:11:28 <dr_gogeta86> A guy in italy is trying to port telegram desktop on sfos
08:11:34 <M4rtinK> just not sure about keeping binary compatibility
08:11:37 <leszek> M4rtinK: Fedora rebuilded its whole repo though after the gcc5 switch
08:11:39 <dr_gogeta86> the show stopper is the gcc 6 problem
08:11:39 <leszek> or during
08:11:57 <nh1402> -fabi flag should help ease the pain
08:12:18 <rinigus> I have made quick-and-dirty gcc 6.4.0 compile and packaging for sfos with switches that should make it compatible with gcc 4.8. if anyone interested, its at obs
08:12:41 <dr_gogeta86> rinigus, is public ?
08:12:46 <jwalck> #info Jonatan Walck - shamefully late community member
08:12:46 <Mister_Magister> there is some gcc5 in openrepos dunno how it's working
08:12:47 <dr_gogeta86> -> url
08:12:59 <rinigus> yes, sure. https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:rinigus:toolbox/opt-gcc
08:13:09 <M4rtinK> leszek: well, we generally rebuild everything once per release anyway
08:13:10 <Jaymzz> #link  https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:rinigus:toolbox/opt-gcc
08:13:22 <leszek> M4rtinK: ah ok then this is no problem
08:13:34 <pketo> abranson_: you were working on the gcc update? can you say anything about this?
08:13:35 <rinigus> I haven't tested it though. be warned
08:13:38 <ApBBB> pain or not to recompile everything its a one time thing. and it will clear the repos from apps that are not maintained anymore
08:13:56 <M4rtinK> so not 100% applicable to Sailfish with all the proprietary stuff & apps mixed in
08:14:10 <abranson_> pketo: I didn't get very far with it unfortunately. I was still tracking down which of the patches were still required when I moved onto something else
08:14:25 <Jaymzz> 3 miniutes left on this topic people, today we have a pretty tight schedule
08:14:39 <piggz_> i guess if you rebuild everything, with the abi downgraded, store apps will still work?
08:14:43 <Mister_Magister> Jaymzz: meeting has time limit?
08:14:45 <dr_gogeta86> no
08:14:47 <abranson_> but as I said last time, the biggest danger is all store apps needing a recompile before they'll work again
08:14:54 <r0kk3rz> rinigus: i'll give it a go tonight, i dont care if it breaks my tablet :)
08:15:03 <ced117> #info Cedric Heintz, community member (late again...)
08:15:07 <ced117> hello everyone
08:15:14 <dr_gogeta86> abranson_, why not put it in a container
08:15:14 <rinigus> abranson_: a proper packaging would be of great help! gcc is keeping us behind
08:15:27 <leszek> abranson_: really? If its compiled with the compatible flag the binaries should be compatible and don't need recompile
08:15:28 * M4rtinK notes that apps using Flatpack rntimes would help there
08:15:29 <nh1402> I suppose we can move forward with the work rinigus has started
08:15:36 <leszek> otherwise this flag does not make much sense
08:15:36 <Jaymzz> Mister_Magister: Well, today's meeting is going to be over 100 minutes! too much over that is not going to be feasible for us
08:15:57 <M4rtinK> just add a new runtime with new GCC - done!
08:15:57 <nh1402> testing it, patching etc.
08:16:08 <r0kk3rz> leszek: indeed, although will the RPM deps be ok?
08:16:19 <leszek> r0kk3rz: they should be ok
08:16:22 <leszek> mostly
08:16:26 <rinigus> r0kk3rz: it should be possible to use it in parallel with the current gcc => shouldn't break anything, as far as I would see
08:16:32 <leszek> otherwise ship meta packages :P
08:17:00 <nh1402> shall we move on to my next topic then :p
08:17:11 <Jaymzz> nh1402: we can do that :)
08:17:33 <piggz_> is there a definitive outcome and way forward?
08:17:48 <M4rtinK> +1
08:17:56 <piggz_> ie, if X works, will we see it in sailfishos Y ?
08:18:10 <Jaymzz> nh1402: Moving on in a second, seems like there still in some discussion left
08:18:31 <nh1402> piggz_: I think those that want to help with GCC update can work with rinigus repo, test, patch etc.
08:18:42 <rinigus> abranson_: [gcc] I had some errors with arm gcc compile when having lto enabled. maybe you could look into it as well?
08:18:51 <nh1402> and discuss in #mer channel for help
08:19:04 <piggz_> yes, and if that is successful, will sailors upgrade?
08:19:39 <Jaymzz> #info those who would want to help with GCC can do so by working with rinigus repository. More to be discussed in #mer channel
08:20:08 <nh1402> that sounds about right
08:20:11 <rinigus> note that its not proper gcc packaging. for proper upgrade, we would need to work on gcc as packages currently
08:20:24 <rinigus> ... with sfos
08:20:47 <Jaymzz> #info (from rinigus) note that its not proper gcc packaging. for proper upgrade, we would need to work on gcc as packages currently with sfos
08:20:57 <Jaymzz> 3 min over time, we shall move on
08:21:06 <Jaymzz> #topic Picture in Picture (PiP) & Splitscreen Multitasking (asked by nh1402 – 15 min)
08:21:17 <Jaymzz> #info Splitscreen multitasking has been brought up before (by myself), Apparently the main thing to modify to support it would be Lipstick, PiP support would be nice, I'm not really sure which would require less work. I was wondering what specifically would need modifying (What in Lipstick), and how the community can help bring it if Jolla don't have enough resources to.
08:22:03 <nh1402> let's start with which would require less work, and if the work needed to implement it is *just* modifying Lipstick
08:22:34 <nh1402> Picture in Picture, or splitscreen multitasking. I'm guessing it's the former.
08:23:02 <nh1402> also, if anyone else is interesting in PiP
08:23:20 <Mister_Magister> split screen would be awesome. and if not just 2 window but more that will be even more awesome
08:23:27 <pketo> I would think that technically they are not much different, but I don't really know anything about this area :)
08:23:29 <leszek> in general lipstick as wayland compositor is the only thing that needs change. Of course the applications itself need to handle resizing aswell so they don't appear broken with unreachable controls
08:23:30 <dr_gogeta86> not for phones ... but for the tablets out there
08:23:36 <dr_gogeta86> was an idiegogo perk
08:23:37 <c_la> I am interested
08:23:41 <Mister_Magister> yeah i'm talking about tablets
08:23:42 <ApBBB> nh1402: making it work is one thing. the ui/ux to bring it up and make it easy for the user to use needs quite a bit of thought
08:23:42 <dr_gogeta86> *indie
08:24:07 <locusf> tv's :)
08:24:16 <dr_gogeta86> locusf, also
08:24:16 <leszek> ApBBB: yeah you are right
08:24:18 <Mister_Magister> too lol :D
08:24:38 <nh1402> ApBBB: of course
08:24:50 <Mister_Magister> on phones 2 windows can be usable still
08:25:23 <r0kk3rz> 4k 6" screens have plenty of realestate
08:25:30 <dcaliste> If I understand well, PiP may solve the security issue of having app setting run from the system setting app.
08:25:30 <ApBBB> Mister_Magister: more than 2 on any screen up to 10 inches sounds too much for me.
08:25:51 <leszek> A swipe guesture from the bottom left or right corner is what I had in mind. It will then split the screen and allow the already open app to run in the left half of the screen. The right half shows a compact app drawer of the installed apps and you can click on the other app that you want to run there. Or choose even an already opened app
08:26:00 <Mister_Magister> ApBBB: 4 windows ion 7" would do for me
08:26:12 <Sugash> but  keyboard is the problem , thats wht Samsung had failure in grand series long before
08:26:12 <nh1402> ApBBB: one thing about splitscreen is that having two apps side by side, would stop "peeking" working on one of the apps.
08:26:55 <nh1402> the way Android handles it iirc, is that if the top app needs keyboard, it just basically draws the keyboard over the bottom app.
08:27:04 <Sugash> If keyboard size is modified it will bring huge success
08:27:07 <Mister_Magister> leszek: or long tap on the edge to resize window
08:27:20 <locusf> well the keyboard is an overlay in lipstick
08:27:21 <dr_gogeta86> there was a good poc on n9
08:27:24 <dr_gogeta86> from tmo
08:27:30 <ApBBB> nh1402: thats why i said it needs a lot of thought. but from the top of my head if the half screen peek shows the whole screen underneeth having one app lose peek isn't much o f a problem
08:27:31 <locusf> so it should do the same thing
08:27:47 <leszek> Mister_Magister: also nice idea but I fear it might conflict with some applications that place their buttons at the edge (Webcat for example)
08:28:48 <ApBBB> leszek: what i had in mind is a 3 finger gesture to split and bring up the app tray
08:28:50 <r0kk3rz> locusf: i was thinking glacier could be a testing ground for this, how usable is that at the moment?
08:29:03 <Mister_Magister> leszek: then bring app drawer from bottom and hold on app icon and move it to second half of screen
08:29:04 <Jaymzz> I wonder if jpetrell is free to reply something :)
08:29:07 <Mister_Magister> that would be awesome
08:29:16 <locusf> r0kk3rz: will relay to eekkelund :)
08:29:18 <leszek> ApBBB: also a very good idea.  Though 3 finger swipe is already used to change the volume
08:29:37 <nh1402> well I propose we organise a separate meeting just for multitasking discussion, put all the cards on the table if we do this, what would happen etc. Build up a plan, and then go from there.
08:29:51 <Sugash> We can make it fo r tablets .I think For now tablets are the good choice
08:30:05 <Sugash> lots of space
08:30:06 <locusf> r0kk3rz: essentially it requires relayering of wayland surfacing
08:30:07 <locusf> *surfaces
08:30:08 <leszek> we need I think prototypes for the swipe gestures and such to try out what works best for the users
08:30:10 <locusf> which is done in lipstick
08:30:10 <locusf> and I have no idea how that could be done
08:30:38 <r0kk3rz> locusf: yeah but having open chrome probably helps too, since its the same lipstick
08:31:04 <nh1402> krnlyng: might have a better idea of wayland surfaces and how they work
08:31:37 <locusf> r0kk3rz: possibly, problem is that sailfish lipstick has different edge touch sensing from glacier
08:31:45 <r0kk3rz> ah ok
08:32:05 <taaem> technically lipstick draws already multiple surfaces in the home view, right? for android apps it shows their live application only minimized to the cover or am I mistaken?
08:32:17 <nh1402> also, is everyone happy with having a separate meeting for multitasking discussion, as in this meeting it could drag on and on.
08:32:28 <Mister_Magister> i feel this meeting to be greatest since i joined meetings
08:32:29 <Sugash> +1
08:32:36 <leszek> :)
08:32:38 <Tofe> nh1402: yup
08:32:41 <jpetrell> Jaymzz: not sure what I should comment on
08:33:20 <dcaliste> nh1402: +1 for a dedicated meeting
08:33:22 <jpetrell> edge swipe areas are invisible and not discoverable, even the current Sailfish OS signature gestures require quite much teaching in Tutorial for people to learn
08:33:25 <Jaymzz> jpetrell: The topic is about split screen and PiP, and what the community could do to help cause we do not have enough resources at the moment to implement those features
08:33:27 <Mister_Magister> +1 from me
08:33:39 <Tofe> locusf: I don't see any issue with wayland personnaly, but of course the compositor will have to be largely adapted. But nothing too technical, more design issues.
08:33:46 <jpetrell> ah
08:33:53 <ApBBB> leszek: not swipe 3 finger closing (like a 2 finger zoom)
08:34:04 <ApBBB> (zoom out)
08:34:13 <leszek> ApBBB: ah great
08:34:26 <Mister_Magister> 3 finger gesture is no good it requires to just use whole hand
08:34:38 <jpetrell> unfortunately our homescreen and Silica components are not open source yet so developing split screen is not really possible by community
08:34:48 <nh1402> double tap in to a 3 finger swipe
08:34:52 <Sugash> Mister_Magister: yes
08:35:00 <locusf> taaem: those are different surfaces, WindowPixmapItem
08:35:02 <leszek> one point more to make it open source asap
08:35:07 <Jaymzz> #info (from jpetrell) unfortunately our homescreen and Silica components are not open source yet so developing split screen is not really possible by community
08:35:23 <taaem> locusf: ah okay
08:35:26 <tbr> except of course where it is if one goes with Nemo homescreen
08:35:54 <jpetrell> for apps to change between full-screen and split modes would require more dynamic layouting (currently geometries are decided on app startup)
08:36:09 <nh1402> keyword being 'yet' so as leszek said when it could be open sourced
08:36:14 <Jaymzz> #info (more from jpetrell) for apps to change between full-screen and split modes would require more dynamic layouting (currently geometries are decided on app startup)
08:36:39 <jpetrell> that is perfectly doable, but Silica needs to be reworked. then we need system UI for managing split screen and migrate all the system dialogs to support different state combinations
08:37:00 <dcaliste> about layouting, I may be wrong, but geometry is already changed and app relayout accordingly when rotating portrait to landscape.
08:37:11 <locusf> gotta love that elbowgrease
08:37:29 <Jaymzz> #info Silica needs to be reworked and we need system UI managing split sceen and we need to migrate all the system dialogs to support different state combinations
08:37:39 <jpetrell> dcaliste: parent item dimensions yes, but not the geometries exposed by Theme object and icon sizes
08:37:45 <nh1402> the key components maybe closed, but we can discuss how to move forward, and then once we make a spec of how to handle it, then it comes to implementation eg in Nemo, wait for opensourcing etc.
08:37:52 <Jaymzz> nh1402: It's going over time again, but I'll give it a few more minutes
08:38:24 <Mister_Magister> nh1402: meeting is going overtime because of you :D
08:38:40 <Jaymzz> It's all nh1402's fault XD
08:38:46 <Mister_Magister> yes :D
08:38:58 <tbr> just my 0.02EUR, but if I were interested in this going anywhere, I'd work on the open source replacements in nemo
08:39:00 <nh1402> Jaymzz: I still have *another* topic iirc
08:39:15 <Mister_Magister> yup nh1402 have 3 topics
08:39:17 <jpetrell> split screen prototype that uses wayland and lipstick would be valuable first start
08:39:25 <Jaymzz> nh1402: You do :)
08:39:26 <dcaliste> jpetrell, mmh ok, I thought that these Theme values where only based on pixel density which is not changed by split screen, but you must be right, I'm not aware of all Theme values, I believe you ;)
08:39:37 <nh1402> tbr: I think we should discuss implementation details first, and then work on nemo
08:39:44 <tbr> all the closed source and "wait for it to be open sourced" has been a major stumbling stone
08:40:03 <tbr> also a reason why I stopped caring about the sailfish side of things
08:40:08 <nh1402> implementation details might take a while by itself.
08:40:16 <leszek> thats true
08:40:27 <tbr> nh1402: yes, but so far discussion is being squashed by "wait for xyz"
08:40:39 <Mister_Magister> i'm again lazy at work because of meeting. gotta fix my multitasking lol
08:41:05 <leszek> my patience for waiting on opensource is also running out. The end of the year is the deadline for me
08:41:13 <r0kk3rz> next topic should be quick anyway :)
08:41:30 <nh1402> so plan is organise meeting to discuss implementation details, then work on nemo homescreen to implement it.
08:41:45 <nh1402> meeting(s)
08:41:49 <locusf> wohoo \o/
08:41:49 <Mister_Magister> yup +1
08:41:54 <ApBBB> leszek: why care. apps are the problem with SFOS.
08:41:59 <tbr> this channel is generally available for meetings
08:42:18 <tbr> also it's called *mer* meeting for a reason ;-)
08:42:24 <leszek> ApBBB: you cannot improve the overall experience and convince people of SFOS if they always promise something but don't deliver it
08:42:26 <Jaymzz> #info Meetings will be organised to discuss implementation details. Work will then bein on Nemo homescreen.
08:42:33 <M4rtinK> more info about opensoircing progress would be welcome BTW
08:42:38 <nh1402> I'm fine with that, I'm not sure when or how to organise the meetings though
08:42:41 <Jaymzz> nh1402: Can we move on? :)
08:42:55 <nh1402> but this topic has been running over and should move on
08:42:58 <Jaymzz> nh1402: We can discuss it later, it's way over time now
08:43:08 <M4rtinK> quite a while since anything has really been said about that and no real user visible progress
08:43:15 <dcaliste> nh1402, choose a first time and announce it on devel mailing list + irc here.
08:43:45 <dcaliste> people who cannot attent can read the minutes later.
08:43:52 <dcaliste> and participate async on the mailing list.
08:43:54 <Jaymzz> Alright moving on to the next topic.
08:44:00 <Jaymzz> #topic: Custom Gestures & Fastening UI. (Asked by Sugash – 10 min)
08:44:15 <Jaymzz> #info Currently we have limited user customizable guestures.which causes a problem either between left and right hand users . User definable guestures can add more customizability and it can showcase Sailfish Os as the best Customizable Os.
08:44:15 <Jaymzz> Fastening UI :
08:44:15 <Jaymzz> 1.The animation speed is slow and it's seem to appeal as a Slow Ui or OS . ( The Warehouse patch is liitle laggy and it doesn't appear to be native ) . Speed can also be made User Customizable ! which adds more UI customizability !
08:44:15 <Jaymzz> 2.Remorse timer is the best of Sailfish . Few think why to wait for 5 sec for a single action ( probably Not true as we can continue with other activities ) . Many tend to wait for the completion if they work on the same page . So adding an immediate action button on the remorse action bar will make it easy & faster appealing .
08:44:18 <Sugash> i will merge 2 topics , its all about UI
08:44:19 <c_la> leszek: M4rtinK: tbr: agree, we should add the opensourcing of sfos as topic for next meeting
08:44:40 <Jaymzz> jpetrell: I think you'd be needed on this topic as well :)
08:45:05 <Sugash> we need to add timely updates with new features
08:45:06 <tbr> c_la: don't include me. I focus on mer and only that. I've long given up on sailfish.
08:45:34 <Mister_Magister> Oh i want to tell something there. on my moto x force i have big.LITTLE architecture and when i disable bigger cores i have 4x1.5GHz but ui gots very very slow every animation is slow so i had to disable little ones. Is sfos rendering everything on cpu? on moto g2 4x1.2GHz animatinos are normal
08:45:51 <M4rtinK> c_la: good point! will you do that ?
08:46:25 <nh1402> we should leave this to general discussion, Sugash go on
08:46:30 <leszek> Sugash: I think the sluggishness depends on the GPU. Take the Jolla 1 for example it handles animations much more smooth than for example the Jolla C which has a inferior GPU
08:46:43 <Sugash> since the launch sailfish 2.0 , UI has not xhanged much , Android is adding more features like multi tasking and improving UI
08:47:05 <ApBBB> i wouldn't describe J1 as smooth. on occasion you can see hickups
08:47:22 <leszek> ApBBB: its smoother than the Jolla C though
08:47:26 <c_la> M4rtinK: no problem, but please do it if I don't do it in the next few days
08:47:30 <Sugash> Users are attracted to Only whats in UI , not every one is geek . Its the only way we can bring more users
08:47:53 <M4rtinK> c_la: ok :)
08:48:17 <leszek> Sugash: there was an improvement with 2.1 which brings in a filter which smooths out stuff overall. Though yes it is just a trick as it makes the responsiveness slower in general
08:48:40 <Sugash> ya
08:48:53 <ApBBB> Sugash: design issues are rarely getting "fixed" in sfos. there have been many complains about various stuff yet none has been handles by jolla.
08:48:56 <leszek> though I like smoother animations more then responsiveness I have to say as long as it does not stand in the way
08:49:30 <leszek> When it comes to design decisions. They are decisions you will always find people disaggreeing
08:50:02 <Sugash> sailfish is lighter and fast multi tasking
08:50:06 <nh1402> I agree with having an option to control animation speed, like in Android
08:50:20 <ApBBB> leszek: you can always argue in a constructive way. its not like "i would like this white to be whiter"
08:50:21 <Sugash> but not everything is faster we need to make it faster
08:50:41 <nh1402> and point 2 I brought up before
08:50:42 <Jaymzz> jpetrell: Do you have any comments here? You're the UI guy :P
08:51:29 <Sugash> Jaymzz:  we need to make it faster and Attractive
08:51:33 <ApBBB> leszek: i wrote this > https://together.jolla.com/question/145880/gripes-with-2x-improving-the-uiux/ a while ago and havent received an answer or arguments against them
08:52:19 <Sugash> do everyone agree with custom guestures?
08:52:21 <r0kk3rz> +1 for a 'do it naow' button on the remorse timer though
08:52:27 <Mister_Magister> yeah
08:52:29 <Mister_Magister> +1
08:52:40 <M4rtinK> +1 (both)
08:52:54 <Mister_Magister> +everything
08:52:59 <leszek> hmm... needs a mockup first
08:53:19 <r0kk3rz> yes people will complain that you have to reach the top of the screen, but like they dont have to press it
08:53:21 <M4rtinK> another bad thing aboit remorse timers - they migh be canceled when you leave page they are on
08:53:30 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes left Sugash, you need to wrap it up :)
08:53:38 <M4rtinK> seen that a couple of times, pretty bad UX
08:53:42 <Sugash> gow about fastening
08:53:49 <Sugash> ?
08:54:00 <r0kk3rz> M4rtinK: sometimes it does the action, like with flight mode.
08:54:03 <M4rtinK> can't really happen wit yes/no dialogues
08:54:10 <pketo> M4rtinK: where does that happen?
08:54:16 <Sugash> app caches are must for fast app openings ,
08:54:21 <leszek> Sugash: not sure how to do it more faster.
08:54:46 <leszek> Sugash: there are caches for apps already just like for example the sailfish-browser
08:54:48 <Sugash> copping up with qt 5.8
08:54:50 <M4rtinK> IIRC system stuff is generally fine, but apps are buggy with this
08:54:51 <Sugash> 5 9
08:54:52 <r0kk3rz> Sugash: fyi fastening is affixing something in place :)
08:55:10 <leszek> Sugash: thats a totally other topic to upgrade Qt and I think we discussed that in the past already
08:55:23 <M4rtinK> eq page/delegates probably getting garbage collected
08:55:30 <Sugash> in the animation i can see the delay and switxhings
08:56:05 <leszek> Sugash: most probably a hardware limitation
08:56:11 <Jaymzz> Sugash: Time's up man, you asked for 10 minutes. Ready to move on soon?
08:56:11 <leszek> the hardware cannot handle this or the drivers are crappy
08:56:14 <Sugash> may be
08:56:34 <M4rtinK> reproducer: open mail app, try to delete message, close app
08:56:34 <leszek> I am not sure if SailfishOS uses EGL for all the UI stuff though
08:56:39 <Sugash> ok abyone giving +1
08:56:42 <M4rtinK> message will stay there
08:56:48 <Sugash> for te requeats
08:57:14 <leszek> M4rtinK: yeah thats an overall problem I guess. As closing the app would kill the timer
08:57:15 <Sugash> Jaymzz: ok get votes and move on
08:57:18 <nh1402> there are still 3 more topics iirc
08:57:49 <Mister_Magister> every topic will be over time today?
08:58:32 <Jaymzz> Mister_Magister: That's not really under my control, I can't just cut people while they're still discussing. That's why I always ask everyone to ask for more minutes than they think they need
08:58:40 <Jaymzz> Sugash: Okay moving on
08:58:47 <nh1402> Jaymzz: if mines next, just skip
08:58:52 <Jaymzz> Sugash: You can continue in general discussion
08:58:54 <jenix> Mister_Magister: That's up to you now ;)
08:58:55 <Mister_Magister> Jaymzz: it was just saying chill man
08:59:19 <Sugash> Jaymzz: ok thanks
08:59:20 <Jaymzz> 'Mister_Magister I'm chill  :D
08:59:37 <Jaymzz> #topic Update libgcrypt to at least 1.6.0 (Asked by Mister_Magister – 5 min)
08:59:39 <dcaliste> M4rtink: I'll give look when I have time. Normally, it seems to me that the remorse is intersepting the Component.delete signal or equivalent.
08:59:56 <Jaymzz> #info  I need updated libgcrypt to at least 1.6.0 for telegram-purple
09:00:11 <Mister_Magister> well there is nothing much to say. i've compiled 1.8 on my obs and it's working great so i see no reason in not updating it
09:00:17 <Mister_Magister> and one more thing will not be outdated
09:00:19 <M4rtinK> dcaliste: that could help, good point
09:00:27 <Mister_Magister> i need it for telegram plugin
09:00:35 <leszek> as long as it does not break anything else I am fully for it
09:00:58 <Mister_Magister> leszek: i didn't have any problems so far
09:01:42 <dcaliste> M4rtink: indeed, see last part of /usr/lib/qt5/qml/Sailfish/Silica/RemorseItem.qml the remorse should be executed on destroy.
09:02:00 <Mister_Magister> Just don't know who i should ask about it so i'm asking here
09:02:01 <pketo> Mister_Magister: file a bug in mer and create pull request?
09:02:31 <Mister_Magister> pketo: i don't understand what you mean
09:02:41 <dcaliste> Mister_Magister: the licence is still LGPL, I've checked, so creating a pull request in git.merproject.org should work ;)
09:03:12 <dcaliste> Fork https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/libgcrypt
09:03:26 <dcaliste> Update it with 1.8 and create a MR.
09:03:31 <Mister_Magister> ah okay i get it now will do
09:03:34 <pketo> https://bugs.merproject.org/buglist.cgi?component=libgcrypt&list_id=2255&product=Mer%20Core&resolution=---
09:03:51 <Jaymzz> #link https://bugs.merproject.org/buglist.cgi?component=libgcrypt&list_id=2255&product=Mer%20Core&resolution=---
09:04:09 <Jaymzz> Mister_Magister: 1 minute :)
09:04:32 <Mister_Magister> Jaymzz: it's done i think
09:05:05 <Jaymzz> Alrighty :)
09:05:08 <nh1402> Jaymzz: skip mine
09:05:09 <abranson_> Mister_Magister: the main thing to watch out for is a license change. if it changes to GPLv3 then you have to use the earlier one.
09:05:28 <Mister_Magister> abranson_: why?
09:05:30 <dcaliste> abranson_: I've checked that licence is still LGPLv2.1
09:05:36 <abranson_> but as dcaliste said, that one is ok
09:05:39 <Jaymzz> nh1402: Okay, do you want me to delete it from TJC also or do you want it discussed next time?
09:05:40 <M4rtinK> its that still an issue ?
09:05:43 <abranson_> Mister_Magister: not compatible with sfos
09:05:47 <Mister_Magister> okay
09:06:00 <nh1402> Jaymzz: next time
09:06:11 <Jaymzz> nh1402: You got it.
09:06:25 <dcaliste> see https://gnupg.org/software/libgcrypt/index.html
09:06:28 <M4rtinK> I kinda seem to remember some change in this regard (GPLv3) but I could be wrong
09:06:44 <Jaymzz> So, moving on to the next topic
09:06:46 <Jaymzz> #topic QtWebkit Update to 5.212 version (Asked by Leszek – 20 min)
09:06:57 <Jaymzz> #info Make QtWebkit and Webcat great again by updating the out of date version of qtwebkit 5.6 with the newest 5.212 version. This one offers accelerated canvas, fixed css, new javascriptcore and webcore supporting more modern sites. I have already created test builds and integrated the Jolla/Mer patches so it can replace QtWebkit 5.6 directly: https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:leszek/qtwebkit5212-wHtml5Audio+Video Video
09:06:57 <Jaymzz> Demo: https://youtu.be/HfzcJNgi9wY Git Repo: https://github.com/llelectronics/lls-qtwebkit
09:07:07 <M4rtinK> with all the new Qt 5 stuff being GPLv3...
09:07:07 <Jaymzz> #link https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:leszek/qtwebkit5212-wHtml5Audio+Video
09:07:07 <Jaymzz> #link https://youtu.be/HfzcJNgi9wY
09:07:07 <Jaymzz> #link https://github.com/llelectronics/lls-qtwebkit
09:07:30 <Jaymzz> leszek: The stage is yours
09:07:31 <leszek> For the benefit of users and developers we should ship the best technical solution as default WebView we can provide. even if a new WebView based on gecko is in the works we should still provide and support which comes as default now
09:07:43 <leszek> QtWebkit 5.212 uses an updated WebCore, JavaScript and CSS Engine which provides vastly improved support for modern websites
09:08:00 <leszek> it does not crash that often :)
09:08:03 <Sugash> +1 for whatever improvements in Browser
09:08:19 <leszek> html5 audio video support still rudimentary
09:08:26 <dcaliste> Sugash: it's for Webview, not the browser which is using gecko engine.
09:08:33 <leszek> it works good for audio but video struggles to play anything smooth when its over 480p resolution
09:08:41 <leszek> and sound is muted everytime media loads (some error in gstreamer or the SailfishOS package of it I assume)
09:08:53 <leszek> I made a javascript hack that currently only seems to work for audio sadly not for video (in webcat)
09:09:01 <nh1402> leszek: is this the same situation as previous topic, ie. merge request or is this a completely different repo?
09:09:34 <leszek> nh1402: I think I can do a merge request but the code is different. I did not take a look at the license yet
09:09:59 <leszek> so its a completely other code base basically speaking.
09:10:49 <nh1402> fair enough
09:10:55 <leszek> With WebCore, JavaScriptCore and other components developed in a different repo aswell on github (I think the qtwebkit official github repo just merges big chunks in their its own branch)
09:11:13 <leszek> Another thing device pixel ratio hack (to correctly scale websites for mobile phones) should land in SilicaWebView as it makes the most sense here and benefits all applications using this WebView
09:11:40 <leszek> In general I am still scratching my head why SailfishOS does not use the platform scaling option provided by Qt (its not just me everyone from Qt is scratching their heads aswell as they created it for that purpose)
09:11:48 <leszek> this would make this whole DPR patch unnecessary
09:11:55 <leszek> and make things a lot easier
09:13:12 <c_la> what a loud silence..
09:13:18 <Tofe> leszek: maybe Jolla wants some control over the app UI scaling
09:13:23 <leszek> current SilicaWebView or qtwebkit in SFOS ships btw. with deactivated HTML5 audio+video support and deactivated SVG support. I think this should change. We are living in 2017. We cannot ship a default WebView without those features
09:13:56 <leszek> Tofe: they could write their own platform specific stuff then which is compatible with the qt scaling
09:13:59 <c_la> leszek: I agree
09:14:43 <leszek> the other sad part is the outdated web technologies when it comes to security
09:14:52 <Tofe> leszek: it would mean rewrite a big part of the theming code, and it's probably impacting apps themselves too
09:16:22 <M4rtinK> good point about security
09:16:25 <leszek> Tofe: that is true. One might workaround this whole thing by using QT_SCALE_FACTOR and then set the Theme.pixelRatio variable to 0.5 or something. To scale down the whole UI Theme part
09:16:40 <M4rtinK> it usually a mess with webkit using software
09:16:46 <leszek> M4rtinK: yeah HTTP/2 is not supported until Qt 5.8
09:17:08 <leszek> so qtwebkit 5.212 in general supports it but only if you compile it against 5.8
09:17:09 <M4rtinK> a lot of effort went into fixing that in Fedora recently
09:17:30 <leszek> and qtwebkit 5.212 of course in general brings in more security due to its newer Webkit Core
09:18:10 <leszek> My current implementation also implements the Jolla/Mer patches. Though one patch in particular the "offline" patch does not work as the underlying code changed too much
09:18:28 <pketo> I would again advice to file a bug in mer
09:18:35 <leszek> I would like request by the package maintainer of the current qtwebkit to solve this issue so we have a drop in replacement for the current qtwebkit
09:18:59 <M4rtinK> well, if it has a maintainer
09:19:00 <leszek> +help
09:19:19 <leszek> M4rtinK: several patches went in qtwebkit on mer so I guess it must have some maintainer
09:19:39 <M4rtinK> that sounds promissing :)
09:19:58 <leszek> Also for better html5 audio + video support we need someone to write a platform specific video/audio player utilizing the native Silica components
09:20:06 <leszek> that would make video playback much smoother I guess
09:20:26 <Sugash> leszek: +1
09:20:26 <leszek> we could base it on the qtmultimedia platform stuff though this one is lacking Media Source Extension compatibility
09:21:08 <dcaliste> Looking at members of qtwebkit5, https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/qtwebkit5/settings/members I see many sailors who usually discuss MR within days of submission.
09:21:27 <Tofe> leszek: there are some parts in a UI which should not be scaled, i.e. expressed in pixels on purpose. Separator lines, borderimages, things like that, which would definitely not look like before.
09:22:07 <leszek> without MediaSource btw. html5test.com will not show anything. I updated the code yesterday to allow setting MediaSourceEnabled from the QML side so the new RPMs from yesterday will have that and it doubles the points on html5test.com in comparison to the current qtwebkit
09:22:08 <r0kk3rz> Tofe: even on an 8k 5.5" display? :)
09:22:18 <leszek> Tofe: I am not sure about that
09:23:36 <Tofe> leszek, r0kk3rz: I'm not sure either, but I'm just saying the effort might be not worth it, given the fact that the result will be ... exactly the same UI-wise
09:23:43 <leszek> also one important thing I want to mention. When we do patches to qtwebkit in mer we should try to upstream those. qtwebkit devs were shocked about what good ideas we had over the years on improving stuff and asked themselves why we did not upstream those
09:24:53 <leszek> the "overview" feature for example could be upstreamed directly if it would use another name for the property and many others like the simple "CookiesEnabled" option exposing to qml and such
09:25:40 <pketo> I think the main focus, when there is time, is on the gecko based webview, so I'm not sure how this will go, but having a working PR on the mer qtwebkit would make it more probable to get in
09:26:37 <Jaymzz> leszek: 5 min :)
09:27:19 <leszek> pketo: like I said I am also eagerly waiting for the gecko based webview. But I fear it will not make it this year. With so many potential devs or users trying out SailfishOS on Xperia X we should ship something that is modern and not outdated and crappy like qtwebkit 5.6
09:27:19 <pketo> and again, not my area, but trying to provide some kind of advice :)
09:28:24 <pketo> rainemak: are you around and do you have anything to say about this?
09:28:46 <leszek> In general feedback helps. So everyone who wants to help download and install the qtwebkit 5.212 (best would be the html5-audio+video ones) and give feedback. I will try to improve stuff. If someone knows javascript and such or the codebase and wants to help that would be also pretty good. We should have at least one viable alternative to gecko as browser engine
09:29:12 <rainemak> pketo, leszek : I'm here
09:30:20 <Jaymzz> ok now that rainemak is here, I guess we will run a bit over time, right leszek? (asking to re-adjust)
09:31:01 <leszek> depends on what rainemak has to say I guess. I have pretty much said everything I wanted regarding this topic
09:31:34 <Jaymzz> Alright we'll wait for his comment and see. Right now the 20 minutes is over.
09:31:38 <rainemak> QtWebKit is pretty much abandoned... but of course we can still update it in mer
09:31:42 <nekron> alternative browser engine is important
09:32:07 <leszek> rainemak: abandoned by whom? QtWebkit 5.212 revived the stuff upstream
09:33:04 <c_la> Jaymzz: is my topic the next one?
09:33:20 <c_la> (not in hurry btw)
09:33:36 <Jaymzz> c_la: It is :)
09:33:53 <leszek> nevertheless I will create a merge request then and a bug report for qtwebkit 5.212 on git mer
09:33:59 <c_la> Jaymzz: thx
09:34:01 <rainemak> leszek, sounds good
09:35:06 <Jaymzz> #info A merge request and a bug report will be created by leszek for qtwebkit 5.212 on git mer regarding this discussion
09:35:17 <Jaymzz> leszek: Are we good to go then? :)
09:35:27 <leszek> yes we are
09:35:32 <Jaymzz> #topic Possibility to use the Sailfish X license to install the proprietary bits of SFOS (exchange, dalvik, text prediction, etc.) on ported devices (Asked by c_la – 20 minutes)
09:35:43 <Jaymzz> #info it would be interesting to have the opportunity to purchase a license of Sailfish X to be able to install the proprietary bits of SFOS (exchange, dalvik, text prediction, etc.) on ported devices. This would increase the revenues for Jolla and would expand the number of smartphones where to get a full experience of SFOS thus expanding the potential user base. This topic has been inspired by the following TJC question: Can the
09:35:43 <Jaymzz> Sony Xperia X port be merged with the Fairphone 2 port?
09:35:51 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/166400/can-the-sony-xperia-x-port-be-merged-with-the-fairphone-2-port/
09:36:09 <Jaymzz> c_la: The stage is yours!
09:36:27 <c_la> the topic, I think, says it all
09:36:41 <c_la> any comment from sailors about it?
09:36:43 <Jaymzz> veskuh: I think you may have something to say here, in case you are available
09:36:54 <sledges> aliendalvik needs to be tailored per-device, krnlyng pls correct me if i'm wrong
09:37:24 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i think that too
09:37:25 <sledges> pketo could enl7ghten us about infra feasibility for such option:)
09:37:58 <Mister_Magister> interesting fact is that aliendalvik is working on nexus 7
09:38:07 <M4rtinK> in general I hope the Sailfish X is enabler both to more officially supported devices as well as to make it possible for people to buy the third party proprietary bits for ports
09:38:08 <nh1402> in this case X in Sailfish X would be [insert device name here]
09:38:15 <M4rtinK> a win-win hopefully
09:38:56 <pketo> Once we have the Sailfish X program sorted out, we should have the enablers for providing the licensed bits to community ports too, so I would say that we will definetly consider this
09:39:01 <leszek> In general I am all in for it. Though I see some practical issues with aliendalvik as it needs to be adapted for every ported device
09:39:08 <c_la> Jaymzz: I did propose something similar to veskuh some months ago during a community meeting, before the xperia announcements
09:39:17 <jenix> it seems that there are at least some Sony devices which are (nearly) identical (e.g. F5121 and F5122), so maybe this would at least be an option for those?
09:39:22 <Mister_Magister> We have got quite large amount of ports so jolla should make some more support for them
09:39:39 <dcaliste> pketo: +1
09:39:40 <Jaymzz> c_la: Things are still pretty much the same, but as pketo said, they may change after we sort everything out with Xperia X
09:39:49 <c_la> M4rtinK: exactly
09:39:51 <M4rtinK> per device crowd-funding to cover adaptation cost ?
09:40:33 <Mister_Magister> M4rtinK: i'm doing it right now lol
09:40:42 <ApBBB> M4rtinK: i doubt people can agree on a device :D
09:41:32 <Jaymzz> #info (from pketo) Once we have the Sailfish X program sorted out, we should have the enablers for providing the licensed bits to community ports too, so I would say that we will definetly consider this
09:41:46 <r0kk3rz> \o/
09:42:02 <sledges> jenix: yes
09:42:03 <jenix> I think the question here is, how Jolla is going to implement the propritary bits in SFOS X. The challange to adapt them to other ports raises with this question
09:42:05 <locusf> what about rpi2/3 :) ?
09:42:10 <locusf> dalvik ftw
09:42:20 <c_la> Jaymzz: thanks, that's a good news
09:42:43 <r0kk3rz> jenix: the same way they do with everything else? port adapting is the porters job
09:42:51 <sledges> jenix: you sideload the blobs from sony website, done:)
09:43:06 <nh1402> jenix: are you referring to piracy?
09:43:33 <jenix> nh1402: no, that was not my intention
09:44:23 <nh1402> I meant, how would Jolla prevent one person buying license, and then releasing proprietary bits to public
09:44:42 <jenix> i meant more like: will the "licence" be bound to the jolla account (which then gives you access to a specific repo containing the tailored rpms)? Or will we finally see paid apps in the store which are used for that
09:45:34 <M4rtinK> I'm sure community will not have a problem to pay for a license
09:45:38 <sledges> aah, those proprietary bits:)
09:45:50 <c_la> nh1402: I didn't look into it but in theory you might be able to extracts the proprietary bits from sailfish
09:45:51 <jenix> nh1402: that's the questions.. basically you can't, at least not without heavy DRM (please don't)
09:46:06 <M4rtinK> if someone does not want to play by the rules - no need to inconvenience those who do
09:46:07 <Jaymzz> c_la: Do you think you got your answer for this topic? In that case we can move this on to general discussion
09:46:52 <c_la> Jaymzz: yes, we can move forward
09:47:05 <Jaymzz> Alright thanks!
09:47:12 <c_la> M4rtinK: +1
09:47:12 <Mister_Magister> you can download i.e text prediction on jolla device and install it on other device
09:47:16 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (10 min)
09:47:58 <Sugash> Jaymzz:  Whats after Sailfish X . i mean the road map
09:48:06 <Jaymzz> Timing is a bit tight now guys, I have to be at another meeting in about 13 minutes :D it will overlap but let's make it quick
09:48:08 <Mister_Magister> lemme bring that again. on my moto x force i have big.LITTLE architecture and when i disable bigger cores i have 4x1.5GHz but ui gots very very slow every animation is slow so i had to disable little ones. Is sfos rendering everything on cpu? on moto g2 4x1.2GHz animatinos are normal
09:48:17 <ApBBB> regarding Sony devices. There was this info that double tap isn't supported. any news on that
09:48:40 <ApBBB> also regarding support. how much will updates cost??
09:48:51 <ApBBB> you only get a year
09:48:56 <Jaymzz> Sugash: There are no plans published yet to the community. Let's get back to it after the product is sorted out :)
09:49:27 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: Yeah Double tap to wake is not yet there, and is unlikely to make it to the initial release
09:49:36 <jenix> ApBBB: That seems not be decided yet by Jolla how they will continue after that year. But they don0t plan to cease updates
09:49:46 <jenix> Jaymzz: correct me if there are any news
09:50:02 <ApBBB> +we need a smaller sony device (wink xz compact wink). are there any plans for that since the x compact is quite old at this moment
09:50:05 <sledges> ApBBB: hw adaptation is now opensource, community can help fixing kernel ts driver:)
09:50:07 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: Regarding the year of updates, we will come out with clearer message shortly. We are sorting it out as we speak
09:50:13 <sledges> and re-enable doubletap
09:50:35 <sledges> ApBBB: community can now add more devices
09:50:35 <jenix> The biggest issue from my point of view is to get BT working
09:50:36 <Jaymzz> jenix: We won't leave you stranded of course :)
09:50:58 <mal> doubletap is just a tiny modification in kernel for sony, but it was disabled by sony due to some issues
09:51:13 <Jaymzz> mal: let's make it happen then ;)
09:51:17 <ApBBB> sledges: its all about official support.
09:51:27 <mal> Jaymzz: maybe it was disabled for a reason
09:51:27 <vk> any plans for/about a jolla-store web interface ? There's Josh but it's a bit confidential, and needs to be improved...
09:51:28 <sledges> jenix: that had breakthrough recently, wait for updates
09:51:30 <ApBBB> sledges: i can
09:51:40 <ApBBB> cant stand half baked stuff
09:51:46 <sledges> mal: yes, but sorting those issues is needed
09:51:55 <sledges> we can get details where
09:52:02 <Mister_Magister> Nobody is willing to answer my question?
09:52:08 <jenix> sledges: great to hear, that's keeping me from purchasing my Xperia X by now
09:52:09 <sledges> ApBBB: we will use same repos for official images
09:52:38 <leszek> sledges: were to find the hardware adaptation?
09:52:55 <r0kk3rz> leszek: usual place, github.com/mer-hybris
09:53:00 <leszek> thanks
09:53:19 <sledges> leszek: being pushed out now, 50% out
09:53:22 <ApBBB> sledges: how easy it is to add more gestures than double tap. ie a circle or a z or a square to the driver?
09:53:41 <Mister_Magister> ApBBB: i think that would be a lot harder
09:53:44 <sledges> ApBBB: need kernel expert to look into that
09:54:01 <sledges> also ts firmware should support any gestures, or we'll have power drain...
09:54:19 <ApBBB> is the ts firmware open?
09:54:20 <sledges> Mister_Magister: abranson_ was looking into BIG.little recently
09:54:29 <sledges> ApBBB: unsure
09:54:39 <abranson_> yeah it's important for the xperia too
09:54:48 <mal> this might be the double tap disabling https://github.com/mer-hybris/android_kernel_sony_msm/commit/0ed768b4b28045c83f23925da28d5a8d8f9cd7d8
09:54:49 <abranson_> had a few chats with Alin about it at droidcon
09:54:57 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i know but looking at big.LITTLE and slow animation problem is 2 different things
09:55:29 <mal> probably should test that
09:55:34 <Mister_Magister> like it's only change from 2GHz to 1.5GHZ wht is it so slow even with 4 cores enabled
09:56:03 <Mister_Magister> it looks like lipstick is drawing everything on cpu but then again on weaker cpus it's normal
09:56:59 <Jaymzz> 1 min remians
09:57:14 <Jaymzz> actually I wsa wrong, time's up :D
09:57:17 <Mister_Magister> i don't quite get what is happening there
09:57:20 <jenix> Mister_Magister: I'm totally unfamiliar with the hardware, but maybe there are other limitations? like missing cpu-instructions, or different bus connections?
09:57:41 <Mister_Magister> jenix: dunno but it's still weird :/
09:57:49 <leszek> Mister_Magister: shouldn't it use the GPU for drawing stuff? Maybe its using the CPU as there is no working GPU driver?
09:58:00 <leszek> or GPU GL 3D driver I mean
09:58:00 <Mister_Magister> on android problem does not exists
09:58:12 <Jaymzz> Guys we need to move on, I definitely don't have any time left. We'll continue whatever discussions you have during the next meeting.
09:58:15 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting’s time and date (5 min)
09:58:33 <abranson_> Mister_Magister: might there be some config to do in sysfs? there's lots of that to play with for the xperia
09:58:39 <Mister_Magister> Jaymzz: okay sure we will talk it on #sailfishos-porters or something
09:58:45 <Jaymzz> Wednesday, September 20th 2017 at 08:00 UTC.
09:58:50 <Jaymzz> Mister_Magister: Thanks, sorry about this
09:59:04 <Jaymzz> Everyone OK with the propoed time and date?
09:59:09 <Mister_Magister> +1
09:59:10 <leszek> yep
09:59:13 <M4rtinK> the pyotherside update to 1.5.1 should happen in next sfos update, right ?
09:59:28 <M4rtinK> afaik that was the plan back in spring
09:59:28 <sledges> +1
09:59:32 <Mister_Magister> abranson_: if you enable corectl in kernel you can check it out yourself
09:59:45 <r0kk3rz> +1, winter is coming
09:59:46 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be held on Wednesday, September 20th at 08:00 UTC
09:59:54 <M4rtinK> it bring signifficant improvements for Python developers
10:00:03 <jenix> phew, that was a long meeting
10:00:04 <Jaymzz> Thanks everyone for participating today
10:00:11 <M4rtinK> so would appreciate a confirnation of that :)
10:00:12 <Jaymzz> Meeting minutes will be sent to you all later today
10:00:18 <jenix> thanks Jaymzz
10:00:20 <M4rtinK> thanks in advance :)
10:00:21 <r0kk3rz> thanks Jaymzz
10:00:23 <objectifnul> bye thx
10:00:35 <leszek> bye
10:00:39 <Jaymzz> M4rtinK: I don't know the answer to that unfortunately
10:00:39 <jenix> and thanks all others
10:00:49 <Jaymzz> Cheers all
10:00:51 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting