09:00:00 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 30th November 2017
09:00:00 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 30 09:00:00 2017 UTC.  The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
09:00:00 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:00:16 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-November/008125.html
09:00:30 <sledges> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be kind
09:00:36 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
09:01:00 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc developer
09:01:40 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, connoisseur
09:01:47 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community
09:02:13 <bshah> #info Bhushan Shah, KDE Plasma Mobile maintainer
09:02:16 <eekkelund> #info eekkelund
09:02:25 <jpetrell> #info Joona Petrell, sailor @ Jolla
09:02:31 <objectifnul> #info objectifnul, community
09:02:52 <Mister_Magister> #info Mister_Magister, community and mad porter
09:02:58 <rainemak> #info Raine M�kel�inen, sailor @ Jolla
09:03:21 <Mister_Magister> so sledges today is chairman
09:03:29 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
09:03:31 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, sailor @ Jolla
09:04:23 <atlochowski> #info Andrzej Lochowski, community
09:04:31 <martonmiklos> #info Miklos Marton, community
09:05:48 <RodSeq> #info Rodolphe Sequeira, community
09:06:29 <sledges> skipping first topic until tortoisedoc is around (might be only in two weeks:)
09:06:33 <tortoisedoc> hei
09:06:36 <cfb014> #info Carmen Fdez., community
09:06:36 <tortoisedoc> im actually here :)
09:06:42 <tortoisedoc> so I can throw the argument in the wiold
09:06:46 <tortoisedoc> *wild
09:06:48 <sledges> k
09:06:53 <tortoisedoc> (seems my meeting got postponed)
09:07:09 <tortoisedoc> so
09:07:22 <tortoisedoc> in order to clarify about the applications stats
09:07:22 <sledges> #topic Apps install/usage stats per device in Harbour (NOT Jolla store) (Asked by tortoisedoc - 20 min)
09:07:37 <tortoisedoc> the original idea refers to the developer's applications stats
09:07:41 <tortoisedoc> NOT to public harbour
09:08:00 <tortoisedoc> and the idea is to have per-device install stats on the (developer) harbour
09:08:09 <sledges> tortoisedoc: let me paste your desc first
09:08:24 <Nokius> #info Nokius, community
09:08:27 <sledges> #info As a developer, I'd benefit from an improved view of my userbase, splitted by device type and Application, visible from the developer Harbour summary page. For example, this helps in identifying where to focus testing efforts to, and eventual issues with application on specific devices.
09:08:36 <kimmoli> tortoisedoc faster than rabbit ?
09:09:58 <sledges> tortoisedoc: this is the same topic from last time's general discussion
09:11:18 <pketo> sorry I'm late
09:11:36 <Mister_Magister> nobody commenting?
09:12:19 <chriadam_> pketo or xfade I think would be the right people to answer this, not sure
09:13:34 <Ygriega> Well, I completely agree with that. Though, I don't really need the device type (still have all available form factors at home), but more a distribution over countries and some statistics over time (downloads in the last week/month/year). Anyway, more statistics would be nice.
09:15:11 <sledges> last meeting the message from Jolla was that there are no short-term plans to implement that; would we have an update on mid-to-long term plans?
09:15:29 <Ygriega> Countries are of interest for translation efforts and for my plans to start selling SFOS software. Tax laws actually make it quite hard to sell software outside of EU for a single person - of course only if you want to comply to the laws... ;)
09:15:31 <sledges> ljo_: please fix your client
09:15:35 <sledges> ljo_: ^
09:15:41 <sledges> ljo: ^
09:16:43 <ljo> sledges: sorry, the trainride is not good for connectivity
09:16:56 <sledges> ah :)
09:17:29 <sledges> 10 more mins on the topic; pketo ?
09:17:46 <pketo> At the moment there is no update on long-term plans on this, but we will put all the Harbour improvements on the priority list when we have time and resources to consentrate on that
09:18:06 <sledges> #info At the moment there is no update on long-term plans on this, but we will put all the Harbour improvements on the priority list when we have time and resources to consentrate on that
09:18:31 <sledges> tortoisedoc: have you received your answer? (i can't ask if you are happy with it :} )
09:18:46 <Ygriega> If Jolla has no resources to build it, we need to do it on our own. I actually included a registration/statistics feature in the most recent version of Piepmatz. About one week live now, works smoothly and gives me a nice impression about the distribution of my user base.
09:19:23 <Mister_Magister> number of things that jolla don't have resources for is too damn high :D
09:20:02 <sledges> or maybe number of people in the community is too damn high (which is awesome!) :D
09:20:40 <pketo> As a plus side, we have currently some internal requirements for improving the store statistics, so this will be taken into account when working on those
09:21:04 <sledges> #info in the meantime Ygriega has implemented own solution, community can contact?
09:21:14 <sledges> #info As a plus side, we have currently some internal requirements for improving the store statistics, so this will be taken into account when working on those
09:21:14 <Mister_Magister> still waiting for harbour to be ready for my app
09:22:04 <Ygriega> Some info about my solution is on http://wagnis.ygriega.de/ - Devs/community can contact me at any time if you are interested
09:22:53 <sledges> #info Ygriega: Some info about my solution [that's been rolled out on the Piepmatz app] is on http://wagnis.ygriega.de/ - Devs/community can contact me at any time if you are interested
09:23:02 <corvinux> maybe it time to opensource everything.
09:23:10 <sledges> #link http://wagnis.ygriega.de/
09:23:22 <Mister_Magister> corvinux: no resources for this :D
09:24:03 <dcaliste> corvinux: not in the hands of people who would like this to happen, I'm afraid…
09:24:53 <sledges> ok, moving on before time, probably tortoisedoc gotten in their meeting in the end :)
09:25:05 <sledges> #topic Sailfish Browser content DPI calculating is broken in (Asked by Mister_Magister - 20 min)
09:25:28 <sledges> #info Since and changes for better support for FullHD screens, webpages DPI is calculated clearly wrong. On Motorola Moto G2 everything is too small and on Motorola Moto X Play everything is too big. Moto G2 has 5" HD display and X Play has 5.5" FullHD display. https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1855
09:25:28 <merbot> Mer bug 1855 in .Other "Sailfish Browser content DPI calculating is broken in" [Major,New]
09:25:34 <sledges> #link https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1855
09:25:41 <jpetrell> rainemak: ^^
09:25:54 <Mister_Magister> Yeah its broken since 2.1.3 before that everything was okay
09:26:05 <Mister_Magister> confirmed on 3 devices
09:26:21 <rainemak> ok, there are basically 2-3 things to check from your ports
09:26:38 <sledges> Mister_Magister: strange, it looks fine on OnePlus One (1080 x 1920)
09:26:45 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: i'm ready and happy to help
09:27:11 <rainemak> 1) dconf dump /desktop/sailfish/silica/
09:27:15 <sledges> (pixel_ratio 2.0)
09:27:16 <Mister_Magister> sledges: on g2 is totally too small (as you can see in link) and on n7 2013 and x play its a bit too big
09:27:37 <rainemak> 2) in browser about:config and search layout.css.devPixelsPerPx
09:28:18 <rainemak> 3) this not related per se but does all of those devices get correct dpi
09:28:44 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: 2) is 1
09:29:19 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: btw layout.css.dpi is -1
09:29:28 <stephg> Mister_Magister: make that 4, I think I've seen that on Xc
09:29:33 <stephg> (sorry I'm late)
09:29:48 <rainemak> ^ e.i. is physical screen size reported correctly up to Qt level (can be checked from the first QScreen of QGuiApplication)
09:29:50 <sledges> layout.css.dpi is -1 also one oneplus one
09:29:51 <Mister_Magister> stephg: 4 is too big but yeah its changing
09:30:12 <rainemak> stephg, no... that will be reset on the fly
09:30:29 <rainemak> stephg, no... that will be reset after browser restart as it should not be tampered
09:30:53 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: 1) http://paste.opensuse.org/58299896
09:31:03 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, for fullhd I'd think that both of them could go with 1.75 silica pixel ratio
09:31:13 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: g2 is HD 5"
09:31:26 <rainemak> those area wrong
09:31:32 <rainemak> s/area/are/
09:31:37 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: silica pixel ratio is all ok
09:32:08 <rainemak> 1.0 is not correct for either of the device
09:32:24 <Mister_Magister> for silica it is
09:32:59 <Mister_Magister> 1.75 seems a lot better but too big
09:33:02 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, I cannot know what kind other quirks you have done but it should not be 1.0
09:33:11 <Mister_Magister> why?
09:33:45 <sledges> pixel ratio formula: https://github.com/mer-hybris/droid-hal-configs/blob/master/droid-config-%40DEVICE%40.spec.template#L16
09:33:51 <gabriel_> hi! any chanche to update qtwebkit on 2.1.4? right now on together app it is very slow when charging photos or web version of threats :(
09:33:52 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: 1.5 seems okay
09:33:52 <jpetrell> labels need to be readable, touch items finger-tappable
09:34:03 <rainemak> it is meant for keeping everything pixel perfect and correctly sizes
09:34:08 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: and they are
09:34:14 <sledges> gabriel_: please wait until general discussion
09:34:44 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, have tampered qwindow's pixelratio instead?
09:34:47 <rainemak> have you
09:35:05 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: what do you mean?
09:35:26 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qwindow.html#devicePixelRatio
09:35:37 <sledges> 10 more mins
09:35:51 <rainemak> don't recall by heart the conf value for that
09:36:04 <rainemak> nevertheless that should be zero as well
09:36:17 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: i'm a bit lost
09:36:56 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, based on the info that I have so far seen those devices are not properly scaled to full hd
09:37:24 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, I'd recommend that we'd check those after the meeting
09:37:30 <Mister_Magister> rainemak:  nexus 7 2013 is fullhd though
09:37:36 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: okay
09:37:44 <sledges> Mister_Magister: did you use the formula? ^^
09:37:52 <Mister_Magister> sledges: ofcourse not
09:37:56 <sledges> well then
09:38:34 <Mister_Magister> i'll talk with rainemak after meeting so we can move on i think
09:38:45 <Mister_Magister> sledges: ^
09:38:47 <rainemak> sledges, and even that formula can produce suboptimal values
09:39:07 <rainemak> sledges, but that formula is a good starting point
09:39:10 <sledges> rainemak: it is, but it's a starting point
09:39:24 <rainemak> :)
09:39:28 <sledges> (:
09:39:29 <Mister_Magister> but making everything bigger is no sense
09:41:18 <Mister_Magister> if you buy bigger screen you want more place not everything bigger
09:41:18 <sledges> first get 4-rows of icons in app grid and 2x2 / 3x3 app covers grid
09:41:18 <Mister_Magister> sledges: covers grid is fixed in 2.1.3
09:41:18 <Mister_Magister> sledges: no thanks
09:41:18 <Mister_Magister> it's workaround its not fix
09:41:18 <Mister_Magister> everything was good until 2.1.3
09:41:18 <sledges> i'm still talking as a starting point: if you follow the formula, the browser should be ok (so in this way we know nothing else is wrong)
09:41:22 <jpetrell> labels and touch items should be roughly of same physical size to remain readable and finger-tappable, with physically larger screen you do get more content
09:42:00 <Mister_Magister> sledges: but if i set "proper" pixel ratio there i can rescale silica later?
09:42:16 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: yeap thats why i didnt use formula
09:42:56 <sledges> Mister_Magister: we don't have official sfos devices with big screens + resolutions, that's why there be dragons if you try to deviate away from the formula
09:43:07 <Mister_Magister> sledges: its HD 5"
09:43:14 <jpetrell> Mister_Magister: that is what the formula does, increases size if pixels grow, reduces if display dimensions grow
09:43:24 <jpetrell> Mister_Magister: HD not full HD?
09:43:24 <sledges> 2 mins
09:43:26 <Mister_Magister> sledges: there would not everything was okay untill 2.1.3
09:43:35 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: HD
09:43:35 <sledges> Mister_Magister: because we are adapting for xperia x
09:44:00 <Mister_Magister> sledges: so what i'm saying that your way is workaround not fix
09:44:25 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: this formula makes everything bigger
09:44:25 <jpetrell> Mister_Magister: ok so close to Jolla C's 1.25 pixel ratio
09:44:36 <Mister_Magister> it just rescales 4.5 jolla 1 display to 5"
09:44:46 <jpetrell> sounds like we are using different formula
09:44:57 <jpetrell> or interpreting it differently
09:45:06 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: if so correct formula would give me 1.0
09:45:11 <sledges> 2.1.3 works on all official devices, "we don't have resources to maintain all community devices too" :)
09:45:26 <r0kk3rz> sledges: thats just lazy
09:45:31 <sledges> the UX scaling issue was popping up in community many many times in the past
09:45:36 <Mister_Magister> yyeah sledges you have me for testing
09:45:51 <Mister_Magister> sledges: but now everything is okay except browser
09:45:56 <Mister_Magister> browser broke in 2.1.3
09:45:57 <sledges> Mister_Magister: i want more than anyone to have community devices to scale, but it's not up to me ;)
09:46:01 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, will check that calculation results after the meeting
09:46:02 <sledges> and it's a tough job!
09:46:41 <rainemak> Mister_Magister, regarding browser that is
09:46:49 <sledges> thanks rainemak & jpetrell, we know that making other form factors scale would benefit Jolla too when an official device comes along :)
09:46:57 <sledges> moving on
09:46:59 <Mister_Magister> yeah we will just talk later and i'll explain my point :)
09:47:11 <sledges> #topic MEGA.nz integration into Sailfish OS (Asked by Mister_Magister - 10 min)
09:47:20 <jpetrell> I did tune app grid and active cover layouts quite a bit in 2.1.3 to better suit higher-resolution displays. the margins were off and not pretty
09:47:30 <sledges> #info Mega.nz is another cloud storage service. They have github with sourcecode for every of their tools. (url: https://github.com/meganz) There is one commandline tool so that can be used for adding mega.nz integration into sfos. Can it be added to "we dont have resources for this for now" list? Can it be done? Eventually i'll do it myself ¯_(ツ)_/¯
09:47:40 <sledges> #link https://github.com/meganz
09:47:59 <Mister_Magister> irc broke my meme ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:48:07 <r0kk3rz> if you can DIY then DIY :)
09:48:21 <Mister_Magister> r0kk3rz: but i dunno how to integrate it into sfos
09:48:23 <sledges> Mister_Magister: no it didn't ;) pure copypaste ;)
09:48:24 <gabriele> So it can be added to OS but resources are limited
09:48:35 <jpetrell> we have no plans to work on MEGA.nz cloud integration, but community is free to develop an app in Store that connects to MEGA.nz
09:48:39 <martonmiklos> is the SFOS cloud integration plugin API public/documented?
09:49:01 <chriadam_> the synchronisation parts are, yes.  the account parts are not, no.
09:49:07 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: i want to make it like dropbox or somethhing
09:49:14 <Mister_Magister> to be available as account
09:49:20 <r0kk3rz> Mister_Magister: with like accounts and sharing dialog? pretty sure we've done community things with those parts
09:49:22 <Mister_Magister> but dunno if there is documentation for it
09:49:35 <Mister_Magister> r0kk3rz: but no documentation
09:49:40 <martonmiklos> any plans on opening the accounts API?
09:49:53 <r0kk3rz> Mister_Magister: since when do you read documentation?
09:50:02 <Mister_Magister> r0kk3rz: since always?
09:50:26 <Mister_Magister> libpurple have no legit documentation tell me more about that
09:50:40 <jpetrell> we want to enable 3rd party accounts, unfortunately there is quite much technical debt and security issues we need to sort out before we can provide 3rd party API
09:50:47 <chriadam_> martonmiklos: my intention is to replace the current accounts middleware with one that I wrote.  I don't really want to expose the current one, for a variety of reasons, and have to keep BC/SC etc.  But let's see how it pans out, changing our entire stack to the new accounts framework might be quite a bit of effort, that needs to be resourced internally.
09:51:16 <Mister_Magister> i can make app for it but thats not what i wanted :/
09:51:34 <Mister_Magister> and im out of resources too
09:52:00 <dcaliste> chriadam_: make the guideline / plan public, we may help in implementation.
09:52:05 <sledges> #info we want to enable 3rd party accounts, unfortunately there is quite much technical debt and security issues we need to sort out before we can provide 3rd party API
09:52:06 <martonmiklos> chariadam_ : that sounds great
09:52:08 <r0kk3rz> stick it on TJC, maybe someone will pick it up
09:52:56 <sledges> i gather it's more tight-knit to sfos internals
09:53:04 <martonmiklos> chriadam_: what does the BC/SC means? sorry this is the first time when I see this
09:53:21 <bshah> Binary/Source Compatibility
09:53:26 <martonmiklos> ah
09:53:32 <martonmiklos> okay
09:53:33 <chriadam_> dcaliste: indeed.  first step is to opensource the new accounts framework.  then I can document the steps to port parts of our stack.  but a big chunk of work is currently closed source settings/accounts stuff (and no plan to opensource that stuff in the near future, from what I know)
09:53:46 <jpetrell> I think we all would love to see better cloud integration (syncing all content types, cloud folders, automatic camera roll sync, more supported services, etc.), but really we need 1.) more time or 2.) paying customer project to speed things up
09:53:51 <chriadam_> but need to discuss with jpetrell and internal stakeholders more ;-)
09:54:46 <sledges> 3 more mins
09:55:06 <chriadam_> Mister_Magister: fwiw, you can check the buteo-sync-plugins-social for .. 90% of the dropbox/onedrive code
09:55:24 <chriadam_> the other 10% is in closed source repo, unfortunately, related to listing files for backup/restore cases
09:55:30 <Mister_Magister> chriadam_: can i have link to that?
09:55:36 <chriadam_> oh, plust he accounts plugins but they're just QML and can be found on teh device
09:56:08 <chriadam_> https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/buteo-sync-plugins-social
09:56:10 <sledges> #info fwiw, you can check the buteo-sync-plugins-social for .. 90% of the dropbox/onedrive code; the other 10% is in closed source repo, unfortunately, related to listing files for backup/restore cases
09:56:12 <dcaliste> Mister_Magister: https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/buteo-sync-plugins-social
09:56:25 <sledges> #info plus the accounts plugins but they're just QML and can be found on teh device
09:56:31 <sledges> #link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/buteo-sync-plugins-social
09:56:42 <Mister_Magister> chriadam_: and if i make it ready is it possible to make it into sfos?
09:57:04 <Mister_Magister> dcaliste: thanks
09:57:07 <sledges> moving on?
09:57:28 <sledges> Mister_Magister: try to embark more pirates on your ship:)
09:57:31 <chriadam_> Mister_Magister: contributions to open sourced repos can follow normal contribution process.  the problem is the accounts side stuff - it's closed and we cannot accept contributions to that currently, as we have no defined process
09:57:35 <Mister_Magister> sledges: just wondering if it will be integrated into sfos if i make it
09:57:38 <dcaliste> There will be also the issue of using the single sign on framework, don't you think?
09:57:46 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i have one :P
09:57:55 <sledges> Mister_Magister: you could raise a community support group around this one; cc jpetrell
09:58:06 <sledges> (like chriadam_ does around c*dav)
09:58:16 <Mister_Magister> chriadam_: so i have to make into jolla and then make it internally
09:58:19 <Mister_Magister> seems like good plan!
09:58:27 <chriadam_> grin
09:58:42 <chriadam_> I just mean, the sync plugin is a good start, then we can discuss further
09:58:47 <Mister_Magister> chriadam_: sledges: just wait for me :P
09:58:57 <Mister_Magister> chriadam_: okay!
09:59:00 <sledges> #topic Covers are sometimes displayed wrongly
09:59:01 <chriadam_> thanks
09:59:15 <sledges> #info asked by Mister_Magister, 10mins
09:59:17 <dcaliste> Mister_Magister: I'm trying to do the same with WebDAV synchronisation.
09:59:20 <sledges> #info Sometimes covers are rendered too big for a window (link to screenshot: https://imgur.com/v4F6E99). This bug started from 2.1.3
09:59:48 <sledges> #link https://imgur.com/v4F6E99
09:59:54 <tbr> 'sup everyone
09:59:58 * tbr checks in
10:00:00 <Mister_Magister> When i enter app and leave it it fixes, its weird bug
10:00:03 <sledges> dcaliste: Mister_Magister: could you join forces outside meeting pls? :)
10:00:21 <Mister_Magister> sledges: doubt we have 2 different plugins :P
10:00:29 <gabriele> I haven't met this bug yet on 2.1.3
10:00:35 <sledges> Mister_Magister: it's about accounts integration - what we've mainly discussed ^^
10:00:36 <dcaliste> sledges: sorry being out of topic time. Will discuss it later.
10:00:36 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i have friend that will amke it with me
10:01:21 <sledges> dcaliste: all good, more helping hands the better to overcome accounts integration (which is the biggest show stopper atm)
10:01:28 <Nokius> this bug has been reported by me before it happens after phone calls I have to check tjc how the reproducing works
10:01:51 <dcaliste> This bug can be reproduce after a phone call.
10:01:51 <sledges> #info this bug has been reported by Nokius before it happens after phone calls, have to check tjc how the reproducing works
10:01:55 <Mister_Magister> Nokius: not even after calls for me it just happen sometimes
10:02:02 <dcaliste> Oups, sorry Nokius !
10:02:11 <sledges> tjc linky pls :)
10:03:22 <jpetrell> like said I did tune active cover layouts, though it should not directly affect such scaling
10:03:33 <jpetrell> there has been similar layout issues in active covers before, maybe my active cover layout changes made those issues more common on some community devices
10:03:52 <Mister_Magister> yeah about covers even with my "broken" dpi they are proper 2 columns now since 2.1.3
10:04:09 <Mister_Magister> so thats a good thing
10:04:36 <jpetrell> the cover width is calculated from display width and margins around and between covers
10:04:45 <sledges> Mister_Magister: and 3x3 when >4 apps open?
10:05:00 <Mister_Magister> sledges: yeap
10:05:15 <sledges> Nokius: dcaliste: have you seen this on community ports only?
10:05:20 <Mister_Magister> sledges: they are all good no matter the pixel ratio
10:05:33 <sledges> great job jpetrell! :)
10:05:40 <Mister_Magister> sledges: my brother with jolla phone didnt had it
10:05:44 <sledges> so i can adjust the formula description :)
10:05:46 <dcaliste> For me it happens almost all the time on JollaC after phone calls.
10:06:27 <gabriele> I don't have this bug on Jolla 1 :)
10:06:31 <jpetrell> dcaliste: after phone call the phone cover contents are incorrectly scaled?
10:06:44 <dcaliste> jpetrell, exactly.
10:06:52 <Nokius> sledges: on non ports ;)
10:06:55 <jpetrell> dcaliste: cool I'll try to reproduce
10:07:09 <jpetrell> I can fix if I can find a way to repro
10:07:25 <sledges> Nokius: you mean official device(s)?
10:07:41 <Nokius> sledges: yes, it happened on the Xx too
10:08:00 <dcaliste> I cannot reproduce it on demand though, but it happens very often for me. I guess first something with screen blanking when put the phone near ears, but it's not reproducible just playing with the captor when the phone rest on the table.
10:08:01 * sledges can't find TJC
10:08:04 <sledges> on that
10:08:06 <objectifnul> I experienced it with Jolla 1 and Xperia X
10:08:16 <objectifnul> (randomly)
10:08:34 <sledges> dcaliste: helps to reproduce if you swipe the top (jolla phone) app to background during phonecall maybe?
10:09:10 <r0kk3rz> jpetrell: as an aside, is there any way to tune the whitespace between app covers on the homescreen?
10:09:49 <sledges> probably it wasn't an eye-watering bug, because it goes away after enter/exit any app
10:10:03 <jpetrell> r0kk3rz: the margin there is Theme.paddingLarge, you can tune paddings but then all apps are affected
10:10:12 <Mister_Magister> nice netsplit
10:10:27 <r0kk3rz> jpetrell: hmm ok, i'll have to check the latest version with your new tweaks anyway
10:10:29 <jpetrell> the issue should be fixed, though severity depends on how many see it
10:10:56 <sledges> time to move on, Nokius could you find its tjc please, and if not, could you file one with Mister_Magister?
10:11:08 <Mister_Magister> sure why not
10:11:14 <sledges> thanks!
10:11:29 <sledges> also with hints how to reproduce quicker than later :)
10:11:33 <sledges> #topic Email app improvements and long standing bugs in email and connection switching (Asked by ApBBB - 15 min)
10:11:47 <sledges> #info https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/ & https://together.jolla.com/question/91937/bug-imap-idlepush-of-some-email-service-providers-some-users-does-not-work-with-generic-imap-account/?sort=votes&page=1 are two bugs that affect email. Also we have the case that emails arrive late etc etc.
10:11:56 <sledges> #info One of the things that a smartphone must do well is communication and email is one of the main ways people communicate outside proprietary apps. And the situation is no good for some at least. So what are the plans for improving this.
10:12:03 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/
10:12:09 <Nokius> sledges: I can't find it atm, but it should be there let me search on
10:12:12 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/91937/bug-imap-idlepush-of-some-email-service-providers-some-users-does-not-work-with-generic-imap-account/?sort=votes&page=1
10:12:15 <dcaliste> sledges: it is happening also without sending the app to background. Typically: phone on the table, ringing. Pull down to answer, pick the phone put it to ear 45°, speak. Later hang off, let the phone app disappear and show the home screen, then covers are wrongly scaled.
10:13:04 <sledges> #info sticking to previous topic, how to repro scaled covers: phone on the table, ringing. Pull down to answer, pick the phone put it to ear 45°, speak. Later hang off, let the phone app disappear and show the home screen, then covers are wrongly scaled.
10:13:08 <sledges> sorry ApBBB :)
10:13:12 <sledges> the stage is all yours now
10:13:23 <dcaliste> oops, sorry again, too slow to type :(
10:13:37 <ApBBB> As the title suggests. Not much to add to it other than its quite annoying to have emails arriving late or having to activate/deactivate flight mode to have the email app working
10:13:58 <ApBBB> and both those stuff are loooooong standing bugs
10:14:46 <jpetrell> sounds serious, we should have a look
10:15:01 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: how often do you need to do that?
10:15:12 <jpetrell> we are actively working on improving email and calendar
10:15:23 <dcaliste> For the issue with both connections active, see my TJC answer : https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/?answer=175138#post-id-175138
10:15:23 <sledges> \o/
10:15:26 <ApBBB> every time i go out and have to reconnect to my appartment wifi
10:16:32 <dcaliste> In a nutshell, any change in the NetworkSession (disconnecting, roaming…) will stop the idle IMAP connection.
10:16:42 <ApBBB> meaning two-three times a day
10:16:56 <dcaliste> I cannot see from the code where this connection is reestablished.
10:17:25 <jpetrell> in 2.1.3 we fixed a lot of long-time connectivity issues, were connections didn't always recover when device switched between connection methods (WLAN hotspots, mobile data), both Qt and Android apps were improved
10:18:02 <ApBBB> jpetrell: i am on
10:18:09 <ApBBB> and still get those issues
10:18:19 <jpetrell> ApBBB: well different issue probably
10:18:41 <dcaliste> I'll try to investigate this reconnection issue in imapservice.cpp in the coming weeks and report in TJC if I find something.
10:18:50 <ApBBB> jpetrell: BTW have you taken into accont the community suggestions with the email design and stuff?
10:18:59 <ApBBB> dcaliste: thanks
10:19:06 <chriadam_> dcaliste: if you get stuck let me know and I'll forward questions to mvogt
10:19:46 <dcaliste> Thanks chriadam_, my main concern here is that I cannot see where the connection is reestablished after network hickups which is strange.
10:20:13 <chriadam_> by "connection" do you mean connection to the imap server, or the lower level qtbearer connection config?
10:20:21 <gabriele> I woudl
10:20:38 <jpetrell> ApBBB: yes. community suggestions and votes in together jolla are active used for ideas to suggest for the paying customers
10:20:46 <dcaliste> The latter, see imapservice.cpp#1962
10:21:21 <gabriele> ops I would say that something has to be fixed with connecting to secured wifi hotspot. Still can't log in with default browser on university :( have to use another web browser
10:21:31 <ApBBB> jpetrell: good. i hope the whole inverted UI to get into the folders is fixed
10:21:38 <dcaliste> chriadam_: I didn't try yet to reproduce, just tried to read the code and find inconsistencies.
10:22:06 <chriadam_> dcaliste: rainemak might be able to help with the qtbearer level stuff, he investigated / fixed some things there recently
10:22:23 <Mister_Magister> gabriele: when i was in itally that was workign ok for me
10:22:28 <Mister_Magister> buggy but ok
10:22:38 <sledges> gabriele: please adress during general discussion in 3 mins ;)
10:23:11 <jpetrell> ApBBB: we would also like to do comprehensive UX redesign of Email, it is not easy for new users, HTML viewer could be much better, folder ux is broken, etc.
10:23:15 <dcaliste> chriadam_: currently I don't think it is in the qtbearer things, more in the way imapservice is reacting to its signals.
10:23:27 <chriadam_> ah, right
10:23:36 <jpetrell> unfortunately it is hard to get funding for non-functional UX improvements
10:24:18 <jpetrell> sorry non-functional UX improvements = non-functional requirements like UX. non-functional as in quality improvement and not new features
10:24:19 <ApBBB> jpetrell: open source it then and let the community do the design stuff.
10:24:31 <sledges> #info dcaliste has kindly stepped forward to look into the matter, and will keep us updated, with help from Jolla
10:24:35 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/?answer=175138#post-id-175138
10:24:50 <ApBBB> jpetrell: UX is painfull in some areas
10:25:06 <ApBBB> not only in the email app. we ahve discussed that in the past i think
10:25:17 <ApBBB> and i made some suggestions
10:25:57 <ApBBB> at the end of the day you will be able to offer a better more usable product to your paying customers
10:25:58 <sledges> seamlessly moving on to...
10:26:00 <dcaliste> sledges: :) yes, the issue is lying in the open source parts, so it should be possible to fix it from the community.
10:26:01 <sledges> #topic General discussion - 15mins
10:26:04 <Mister_Magister> this meeting is kinda long :P
10:26:07 <bshah> uh
10:26:16 <bshah> sledges: my topic was missed? :P
10:26:22 <ApBBB> sledges: where is my officially supported xz1 compact
10:26:24 <ApBBB> :D
10:26:24 <jpetrell> ApBBB: open sourcing is decision only the investors/owners can ultimately make. if you have money buy controlling stake at Jolla and open source the asset :P :)
10:26:31 <sledges> bshah: no topic of yours here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-November/008125.html
10:26:47 <bshah> sledges: well yes, it was missed in email as well :P
10:26:51 <objectifnul> Any work in progress regarding partitioning scheme in SailfishX/XperiaX ?
10:26:53 <Mister_Magister> bshah: maybe added to late
10:27:06 <Mister_Magister> james didnt edited that
10:27:07 <ApBBB> jpetrell: i get that. but opening an app or two will help enormusly.
10:27:14 <jpetrell> agree
10:27:21 <dcaliste> bshah: when adding a topic, don't add it as an answer it is often missed.
10:27:31 <ApBBB> i was not talking about opensourcing the whole thing
10:27:41 <ApBBB> it doesn't matter
10:27:45 <ApBBB> but apps
10:27:50 <ApBBB> is another storry
10:27:55 <bshah> dcaliste: I don't have enough karma to do otherway
10:28:03 <Mister_Magister> Well lets everybody clap their hands on my first sfos contribution!
10:28:12 * ApBBB claps
10:28:19 <Mister_Magister> aka hwcomposer pullreqest for inverted screens
10:28:19 <bshah> anyway here was my topic, and Mister_Magister added it to wiki today : https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/?answer=174543#post-id-174543
10:28:27 <sledges> objectifnul: not prioritised on that at the moment
10:28:30 <dcaliste> bshah: sorry, will vote for your answer!
10:28:30 <chriadam_> thank you for your contribution, Mister_Magister.
10:28:39 <Mister_Magister> bshah: today is probably too late :P
10:29:01 <Mister_Magister> chriadam_: thanks :3
10:29:06 <ApBBB> sledges: any news on nes xperia hw?
10:29:16 <bshah> .... but but I added topic week ago.. anyway.. it's fine if is not discussed today I guess... uh
10:29:18 <bshah> :p
10:29:20 <bshah> :(
10:29:30 <sledges> ApBBB: nintendo entertainment system? :)
10:29:36 <gabriele> MisterMagister how do you know I am in Italy? Anyway, connecting to wifi hotspot in university is diffucult still :( Have to use or webpirate
10:29:41 <chriadam_> bshah: who was the author?
10:29:42 <Mister_Magister> sledges: highfive thought about the same
10:29:48 <r0kk3rz> jpetrell: so whats this sailfish-secrets thing all about? - https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-secrets
10:29:55 <sledges> bshah: sorry, we've had lots of topics, let's let people eat some lunch today :) will pick up next week!
10:30:00 <Mister_Magister> gabriele: i had login page at my hotel
10:30:04 <bshah> sledges: okay, fine with it
10:30:36 <bshah> chriadam_: author for?
10:30:38 <Mister_Magister> sledges: yeah getting hungry but dont wanna miss anything :P
10:30:39 <sledges> r0kk3rz: that would be telling :P
10:30:39 <chriadam_> bshah: if you can send me an email with the sha1s of the changes which are missing from upstream, I will try to follow up.  chris dot adams at jolla dot com as per usual
10:30:56 <r0kk3rz> sledges: yes i guess it wouldnt be very secret!
10:31:03 <bshah> chriadam_: actually, this is useful : https://github.com/bhush9/qtmultimedia-patches
10:31:12 <bshah> (I guess)
10:31:32 <chriadam_> bshah: ok, I will check tomorrow
10:31:35 <dcaliste> r0kk3rz: it's what the README is reporting, a framework to store and perform crypto operations.
10:31:43 <sledges> bshah: for next times: we need some time to prepare an answer, so the earlier it appears in tjc wiki body the better
10:31:51 <gabriele> What about bringing back swype gestures for active covers actions? They were so cool in older Sailfish! :)
10:31:59 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: similar to android's KeyChain
10:32:13 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: ah ok, so mostly password management?
10:32:31 <jpetrell> gabriele: unfortunately they conflict/overlap with sailfish 2 homescreen carousel navigation
10:32:31 <dcaliste> Not only.
10:32:39 <bshah> sledges: I was unable to edit wiki, so just added as comment/answer, but it's okay I will improvise next time..
10:32:43 <jpetrell> R0kk3rz: secure place for storing passwords, certificates, etc. (like iOS keychain, gnome keyring, etc.)
10:32:51 <jpetrell> also some cryptography stuff
10:32:53 <sledges> bshah: it's fine to ask someone else, just explaining the contingency
10:32:56 <Mister_Magister> sledges: need more people in my team or more pirates on my boat :D
10:33:25 <hge> +1 to gabriele's suggestion
10:33:36 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: main use case is cryptographic keys + certs.  importantly, the crypto operations happen in the daemon process (or even in TEE if the plugin is implemented that way) instead of the client process, so it simplifies accreditation of a variety of client-application use-cases, etc.
10:33:47 <ApBBB> sledges: ha. new
10:33:53 <Mister_Magister> bshah: next time talk with somebody who can
10:33:57 <Mister_Magister> like me :P
10:34:11 <Mister_Magister> send me pm and it will be done :P
10:34:17 <ApBBB> sledges: my wallet is ready for a compact xz1
10:34:19 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: sounds useful :)
10:34:22 <sledges> thanks chriadam_ for winging bshah's question!
10:34:33 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: review would be appreciated ;-)
10:34:34 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: so buy one and do the port :)
10:35:10 <ApBBB> r0kk3rz: i am most likely going to brick it and i don't like 500euro bricks
10:35:22 <gabriele> jpetrell: uff :( What about the possibility to have, on the browser for example, a playing youtube video, and in another tab a web page?  I used to do it on BlackBerry 10 :)
10:35:22 <ApBBB> + i have no knowledge of doing it
10:35:34 <Mister_Magister> ApBBB: you have us
10:35:40 <Mister_Magister> and half dead mal
10:35:41 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: these sony devices are a bit hard to brick, unless you're stephg
10:35:54 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: proper flashing tools mean you really need to break them to get a brick
10:36:02 <Mister_Magister> r0kk3rz: what does stephg have to do with bricking?
10:36:14 <r0kk3rz> he knows :)
10:36:21 <Mister_Magister> okay :D
10:36:32 <sledges> ApBBB: all except x, x dualsim, and xcompact are android 7. and sailfish x is on android 6, so it will be taking time for those
10:36:36 <Mister_Magister> gabriele: not possible
10:36:37 <jpetrell> garbriele: would be cool. hopefully some day :)
10:36:38 <r0kk3rz> stephg broke flash mode on his XC somewhoe...
10:36:45 <jpetrell> gabriele sorry ^^
10:37:08 <sledges> currently busy with what's on jolla.com frontpage and also what's been announced at today'a slush :)
10:37:16 <Mister_Magister> gabriele: last time i asked this: browser is freezing closing other apps because its eating too much ram so playing yt in other card will eat too much resources
10:37:18 <ApBBB> sledges: those are old phones
10:37:28 <ApBBB> things need to move forward
10:38:06 <r0kk3rz> they arent that old, and still are nice devices
10:38:23 * Mister_Magister just bought two 4yo devices
10:38:26 <sledges> ApBBB: we are moving with Jala (android 7), so that will transpire if/when we're asked to line up other xperias
10:38:29 <gabriele> on blackberry q10 with 2gb ram it was still possible, they limit open apps to 8, but at the end was possible.
10:38:31 <Mister_Magister> old? ha ha ha…
10:38:34 <r0kk3rz> but all the stuff is open, jolla doesnt need to do everything
10:38:51 <r0kk3rz> theres a number of people wanting to port to sony aosp7 devices
10:39:00 <ApBBB> sledges: the community asked already :P
10:39:31 <sledges> ApBBB: noted :D keep pushing! ;)
10:39:53 <martonmiklos> I would have a different kind of question:
10:40:01 <sledges> on all cylinders
10:40:14 * sledges suggests to take fairphone approach in that ;)
10:40:20 <Mister_Magister> and i'm waiting for mal making hybris for aosp8
10:40:22 <Mister_Magister> whay about that
10:40:24 <Mister_Magister> :D
10:40:35 <ApBBB> sledges: will sending beers to vesku or jpetrell help?? :D
10:40:39 <Mister_Magister> nexus 7 2013 have mainline kernel but its for mainline aosp :P
10:40:41 <gabriele> and emojs on the keyboard?
10:40:48 <gabriele> default keyboard :)
10:40:48 <sledges> ApBBB: fp approach was broader than that ;)
10:40:50 <Mister_Magister> gabriele: emoji keyboard
10:40:53 <Mister_Magister> isntall it
10:41:00 <martonmiklos> are there any public details about the Nuance predictor licensing?
10:41:08 <Mister_Magister> and with mainline kernel i will have freedreno and opengl and basicall run xorg :D
10:41:14 <martonmiklos> have you licensed it only to the already supported languages?
10:41:28 <Mister_Magister> Ah guys Moto X1 and X2 are comming!
10:41:31 <Mister_Magister> i mean sfos fo them
10:41:41 <Mister_Magister> (dont ask how many ports i have/i'll have
10:41:47 <sledges> gabriele: emoji's on silica input fields require newer qt iirc, something community could skunkwork ;)
10:42:11 <martonmiklos> now by adding the community languages official would it be possible to add predictors as well for those languages
10:42:18 <ApBBB> Mister_Magister: xorg is dead
10:42:20 <sledges> ok, we're way overdue and hungry now :D (at least folks in finland and same timezones for sure)
10:42:33 <chriadam_> martonmiklos: pvuorela might know
10:42:33 <Mister_Magister> ApBBB: shhhhh
10:42:42 <ApBBB> Mister_Magister: it stinks
10:42:46 <gabriele> but even ubuntu touch has emojis on stock keyboard, will wait community? :o
10:42:56 <Mister_Magister> gabriele: you can isntall emoji keyboard
10:43:01 <Mister_Magister> you dont have to wait
10:43:11 <chriadam_> martonmiklos: maybe raise this question at the next meeting, as a proper topic
10:43:25 <Mister_Magister> sledges: yeah me too
10:43:41 <martonmiklos> I have just asked it because I have started to work on a presage (open source predictor) based predictor
10:43:53 <sledges> martonmiklos: baby steps ;) let enjoy officialised languages, no promises on expanding text prediction atm in forseeable future (community solution possible to cover interim term?)
10:44:09 <sledges> martonmiklos: i knew you'd say that, great! \o/
10:44:24 <Mister_Magister> we need to make alternative text prediction
10:44:25 <martonmiklos> on the last meeting this have been mentioned next to community language inclusion topic
10:44:30 <Mister_Magister> opensource etc
10:44:44 <sledges> martonmiklos: i'll update you next meeting on nuance, for now i'd stay keep polishing presage solution ;)
10:44:48 <dcaliste> martonmiklos: great for your work on presage.
10:45:02 <martonmiklos> okay so if there is a "real business need" behind an open source backend I will continue to work on it
10:45:03 <sledges> #topic Next meeting date
10:45:18 <Mister_Magister> +1 on whatever
10:45:29 <martonmiklos> sledges: presage is not my work I just ditching a layer above it :)
10:45:42 <sledges> *presage-based i meant
10:45:54 <martonmiklos> yeah that is correct
10:46:01 <sledges> (not presage as solution either ;))
10:46:27 <sledges> Thursday 14th December 2017 09:00 UTC
10:46:33 <sledges> already OKd by Mister_Magister
10:46:41 <sledges> one more ok and we wrap up
10:46:45 <chriadam_> sure, +1
10:46:46 <stephg> ok!
10:46:52 <sledges> #info Next meeting Thursday 14th December 2017 09:00 UTC
10:46:54 <Mister_Magister> sledges: just type +1 yourself :P
10:47:10 <sledges> thanks all, great participation!!
10:47:14 <sledges> don't forget London meetup ;)
10:47:16 <sledges> #link https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/935473194215071744
10:47:18 <Mister_Magister> sledges:  and now we all can go eat :D
10:47:18 <sledges> #endmeeting