09:01:53 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting
09:01:53 <merbot`> Meeting started Thu Jan 25 09:01:53 2018 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
09:01:53 <merbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:02:11 <Jaymzz> Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – December 21st 2017
09:02:22 <Jaymzz> ok wrong one XD
09:02:25 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: o/
09:02:27 <Jaymzz> I'm siiiick!! :D
09:02:52 <Jaymzz> #info Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – January 25th 2018
09:03:07 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
09:03:17 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
09:03:32 <leszek> #info Leszek Lesner community and dev
09:03:37 <eekkelund> #info eekkelund
09:03:42 <Jaymzz> hmm, merbot isn't registering
09:03:53 <chriadam_> #info Chris Adams, developer at Jolla
09:04:04 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori Sailor @ Jolla, technically on sick leave :D
09:04:22 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson, dev at Jolla
09:04:23 <chriadam_> I hope you get better soon, Jaymzz :-(
09:04:23 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community guy
09:04:32 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, jolla guy
09:05:00 <Jaymzz> chriadam_: Thanks man! It's just that it really affects how my brain works on these days! :P
09:05:04 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla
09:05:25 <rainemak> #info Raine M�kel�inen, sailor @ Jolla
09:05:45 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community member
09:06:37 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
09:07:45 <NotKit> #info Nikita Ukhryonkov, community member and porter
09:09:47 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (30 min)
09:10:08 <Jaymzz> let's have a long general discussion session this week as there were no topics announced
09:10:26 <Jaymzz> we can maybe start with sledges talking about FOSDEM? :)
09:10:40 <r0kk3rz> happy new beer everyone!
09:10:57 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: happy new beer to you too :D
09:11:24 <schmittlauch> #infor schmittlauch, community & currently Jolla Trainee
09:12:07 <leszek> Is Jolla aware that all official devices are affected at least by Spectre? And if they are how are the patches coming along? Can we expect patches? Should we throw away our phones? What is the status?
09:12:16 <schmittlauch> #info schmittlauch, community & currently Trainee @ Jolla
09:12:39 <r0kk3rz> spectre isnt worth throwing phones away over, really
09:13:20 <Nokius> #info Nokius community
09:13:22 <r0kk3rz> the tablet might be meltdownable though
09:13:54 <leszek> yes the tablet is affected by meltdown at least thats what the spectre-meltdown checker tells me
09:14:20 <Jaymzz> I'm not technically capable enough, but isn't spectre only affecting Intel devices (and Jolla 1 is not an intel device) ?
09:14:21 <Nokius> Jaymzz: get well soon please
09:14:29 <leszek> I've seen meltdown exploits already which are capable of logging sensible data
09:14:35 <Jaymzz> unless leszek means the tablet only?
09:14:40 <Jaymzz> Nokius: Thanks man
09:14:49 <richrboo> Spectre, I think affects Sony X
09:14:51 <leszek> Jaymzz: meltdown affects mainly intel
09:14:59 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: theres two issues, one which affects pretty much every cpu ever (spectre), and a really bad one that only affects intel cpus
09:15:06 <leszek> spectre affects Snapdragon 400, 212, 650
09:15:13 <schmittlauch> leszek: Regarding "all devices affected": What about the JollaC/ AquaFish? I thought they're safe because of the lower-tech processor
09:15:24 <Coolgeek> Is there any news about an upcoming new version of SFOS ? will there be fix for hotspot en SFOSX ?
09:15:34 <Jaymzz> Okay thanks for the info r0kk3rz and leszek
09:15:40 <leszek> schmittlauch: the snapdragon 212 has out of order execution so spectre applies here
09:16:06 <r0kk3rz> afaik theres no real mitigation for spectre at all
09:16:11 <schmittlauch> leszek: Good to know
09:16:15 <leszek> I did not see a spectre exploit yet. Though Jolla should think about how to deal with it
09:16:16 <Jaymzz> Coolgeek: Yes, the new version is being tested currently and shall be released as soon as the testing is done. There is a fix for hotspot :)
09:16:16 <r0kk3rz> not without doing very drastic things
09:16:43 <leszek> especially as some of the kernels we use on jolla devices don't get upstream patches and backporting is a pain in the ass
09:17:03 <Coolgeek> is it possible
09:17:06 <leszek> maybe some android "kernel" patches can be used for some kernels, e.g. 3.10 but I am not sure about older ones
09:17:11 <sledges> leszek: has Android addressed the issue(s)? (out of interest)
09:17:20 <schmittlauch> Intel and AMD are pushing out microcode updates against Spectre (and are breaking stuff), but I guess there's no such thing for RISC CPUs like ARM ones?
09:17:22 <Jaymzz> About spectre: I can't speak for it as I am not involved directly with the team that can relate to fixing the issue, but it is something I can ask around if no one answers it during this meeting
09:17:43 <leszek> sledges: yes the december and january patch levels have prevention for both
09:18:04 <leszek> though I am not sure about every spectre variant as it is not totally clear if both apply
09:18:07 <sledges> leszek: but when would they actually land in the users' handsets by different makers?
09:18:13 <Coolgeek> is it possible to trigger things when bluetooth connect ?
09:18:16 <Coolgeek> or disconnect
09:18:29 <Coolgeek> like firing the hostpot when the bluetooth connect to car
09:18:39 <leszek> sledges: it landed on blackberry and huawei handsets already. I saw patched devices two weeks ago
09:18:42 <Coolgeek> and shuting it donw when leaving the car
09:18:54 <sledges> leszek: samsung, google, sony, ...
09:19:12 <leszek> google, samsung and sony also have patches for it
09:19:15 <leszek> that landed
09:19:28 <leszek> even on the crappy sony devices like l devices or xa devices
09:19:46 <r0kk3rz> leszek: do you have details about those patches?
09:19:49 <leszek> though those got their patches last week
09:20:20 <leszek> r0kk3rz: not really. I only know those are the spectre fixes raising the patch level of android to either december or january
09:20:55 <r0kk3rz> you know or you guess?
09:21:42 <leszek> for some devices I know for sure as I could test stuff. For others I only read the changelog of the firmware updates
09:21:53 <richrboo> https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update
09:22:05 <sledges> #link https://9to5google.com/2018/01/10/meltdown-spectre-android-updates/
09:22:49 <Nokius> chriadam_: Gday, about the Mozilla Location service, it been a while till we talked about it. If I recall correct we stopped late 2016 with adding boundary boxes for countries. and I faced an issue with Russia (never debugged it). I'm also not sure if there are any pkg's provided for Europe where the boxes are added :-/ I never did but I wanted to remove the old binary files from the git repo as it
09:22:55 <Nokius> blows the repo up (in size) what is the status for this ?
09:23:12 <Nokius> oops it longer message :-/
09:23:23 <r0kk3rz> #link https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2018-01-01
09:24:05 <chriadam_> Nokius: I don't recall - there was some issue with one MR so I can't remember if it was merged.  but in any event I think the MRs just defined bounding boxes, they didn't include the MLS data for those bounding boxes (although I might be wrong)
09:24:09 <r0kk3rz> the update just helps limit possible side channel attacks, not the underlying problem
09:24:15 <leszek> correction it was not xperia xa but c4
09:25:24 <chriadam_> Nokius: I remember some discussion with lbt where we considered having the binary blobs in a different thing, and injected into the build within OBS, without contaminating the git repo with the big blobs
09:25:31 <Nokius> chriadam_: exactly
09:25:33 <chriadam_> but I don't think any progress was made on that idea, too busy with other stuff
09:25:55 <Nokius> chriadam_: great I will try to pick this up :)
09:25:59 <chriadam_> thank you
09:25:59 <lbt> Oh damn - no alarm
09:26:01 <abranson> Coolgeek: looks like the Situations app can do that. Detecting bluetooth connections is a built in feature, and there's a plugin to toggle the hotspot.
09:26:22 <sledges> Alarm in Darm ;)
09:26:28 <Nokius> but no ETA as I'm currently facing job search and other changes
09:26:33 <Coolgeek> abranson: in jolla store ?
09:26:37 <abranson> yes
09:26:43 <chriadam_> Nokius: good luck in your job hunt!
09:27:00 <Nokius> chriadam_: thx
09:27:06 <Coolgeek> will give it a shot, thx abranson :)
09:27:11 <Jaymzz> Nokius: Good luck man
09:27:28 <Nokius> Jaymzz: thx
09:27:51 <r0kk3rz> Nokius: maybe jolla should give you a job
09:28:04 <lbt> chriadam_: Nokius: happy to discuss approaches to merging in blobs and git to the src. I have some possible solutions in mind
09:28:27 <sledges> #info In FOSDEM we'll have the BoF room with a hopeful link to IRC meeting here on Saturday afternoon. You're welcome to (start) brainstorming topics for that involving event
09:28:41 <chriadam_> Nokius: definitely worth talking to sage or jpetrell to see if there's an opening which might match your skillset and availability
09:28:52 <chriadam_> lbt: great!
09:29:48 <chriadam_> sledges: have there been any suggestions for topics so far?
09:29:58 <Jaymzz> Nokius: You're known in the community and you are capable of doing magic ;) Definitely get in touch with us to see if there is an opening that matches you!
09:30:21 <sledges> chriadam_: nope, perfect place to add topics is TJC for this very meeting
09:30:33 <r0kk3rz> topics topics, hmmm
09:31:02 <Nokius> Jaymzz chriadam_: I'll :) thx
09:31:26 <Nokius> sledges: I have one sneak peak HW :DDD
09:32:43 <Nokius> sledges: no joke aside, is it possible to get insides about the collaboration with Sony Developers. amount of licenses, active users, bit of facts.
09:33:06 <Nokius> if possible
09:33:59 <Nokius> and another one 'future' of the Browser as this is one of the 'issue' we will face with zipper the Browser is to dusty
09:34:21 <sledges> Nokius: that's veskuh to answer, you can propose this question for fosdem, and we can see what can get answered there
09:34:38 <sledges> Nokius: browser questions go to rainemak
09:34:51 <Nokius> sledges: yes that are ideas FOSDEM questions :)
09:34:58 <Nokius> not for now ;)
09:35:07 <sledges> ah ok, misunderstood ;) thanks!
09:35:46 <Nokius> just pulled it in so we have may some brainstorms ;)
09:35:47 <leszek> the browser one is something important I would think. I talked to some web devs that don't care about "obsolete" browsers so their websites don't work on sailfish-browser anymore
09:36:02 <chriadam_> sledges: one possible FOSDEM question I have is: what is required to get a native Linux BSP for a mid-range chipset based package.
09:36:35 <Nokius> leszek: yes it's a pain
09:36:35 <schmittlauch> newer gecko versions probably require setting up a Rust build env for SFOS, right?
09:36:57 <rainemak> schmittlauch, we can bump a bit before that
09:36:57 <chriadam_> leszek: yes.  it's a very important topic.  there is internal discussion of options, costs, benefits etc.   would be good to have more discussion about that, and try to push for a clear roadmap.
09:36:59 <leszek> schmittlauch: and I think patches to compile against gcc 4.8
09:37:09 <Nokius> sledges: where shall we place this questions ? mer-community metting tjc post?
09:37:20 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: the iMX8 chip is looking interesting
09:37:36 <sledges> chriadam_: yep, that's a question about pure ports, can be summed up by locusf and vakkov
09:37:41 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: but id let purism investigate that :)
09:37:56 <leszek> purism xD
09:38:15 <stephg> oops sorry I'm late, tshirt malfunction
09:38:23 <chriadam_> if someone could summarise the issue / problems / costs / potential ways forward / etc for a clueless high level developer like me, that'd be appreciated.  send me an email some time ;-)
09:38:28 <TheKit> also, there are Spreadtrum SoCs which have adaptation for Tizen, which has more Linux-like userspace in core
09:38:46 <r0kk3rz> anyway, we can discuss @ FOSDEM!
09:38:50 <Jaymzz> Guys, keep in mind that the 30 minute mark is closing down on us
09:39:00 <leszek> TheKit: yeah though samsung sits on the sources.
09:39:01 <r0kk3rz> who from jolla is coming to FOSEDM?
09:39:11 <sledges> Nokius: sfos-community meeting tjc post
09:39:19 <sledges> #info post questions for FOSDEM in
09:39:20 <Nokius> sledges: roger
09:39:21 <sledges> #link http://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/?sort=votes&page=1
09:39:46 <sledges> stephg: as long as it's not wardrobe!
09:41:09 <sledges> r0kk3rz: myself, abranson, and TBC :D
09:41:26 <r0kk3rz> woo i can meet abranson :)
09:41:26 <Jaymzz> Time is up y'all :)
09:41:36 <abranson> hi!
09:41:42 <Jaymzz> Oh hai :D
09:42:10 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
09:42:20 <Jaymzz> sledges the stage is yours this time :P
09:43:38 <sledges> well simples, FOSDEM :D
09:43:54 <r0kk3rz> be there or be square
09:44:05 * sledges used to work for BSquare
09:44:11 <Jaymzz> Exactly :P
09:44:35 <Jaymzz> #info next meeting will be held during FOSDEM. Bthere or BSquare ;)
09:44:44 <sledges> #info Next meeting will take place in FOSDEM BoF room, 3rd February, starting on IRC at 14:30 UTC
09:44:52 <Jaymzz> That's better
09:45:18 <leszek> :)
09:45:21 <Jaymzz> Alright
09:45:23 <sledges> anyone has ideas how to podcast? ;)
09:45:33 <tbr> don't forget to reserve the room on time
09:45:38 <sledges> (Jaymzz, you can end the meeting btw)
09:46:04 <sledges> stephg and Nokius are our saturday reservation team like last year ;)
09:46:17 <sledges> *saturday morning
09:46:20 <leszek> sledges: I suggest even when not live that someone takes a camera and records the whole section. And everyone should have a microphone so people who can't come can listen to what you all have to say
09:46:46 <sledges> leszek: yes that's the plan
09:46:48 <locusf> sorry, missed this
09:46:50 <Jaymzz> Okay
09:46:54 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting