13:30:23 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 3rd February 2018 - live from FOSDEM! Audio cast: https://meet.jit.si/SailfishFOSDEM
13:30:23 <merbot`> Meeting started Sat Feb  3 13:30:23 2018 UTC.  The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
13:30:23 <merbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:30:38 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
13:30:42 <sledges> I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be-have :)
13:30:56 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
13:31:01 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, sailor @ Jolla, presently @ FOSDEM
13:31:05 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, community, breaking things.  not@fosdem, maybe next time, neverknow.
13:31:08 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community
13:31:18 <nh1402_> #info nh1402, community member
13:31:19 <andrewalker> #info Andre Walker, community, @ fosdem
13:31:21 <tadzik> #info tadzik, community, small-time developer, @fosdem
13:31:25 <Sfiet_Konstantin> #info Lucien Xu community member. @FOSDEM
13:31:26 <jwalck> #info Jonatan Walck, community, at FOSDEM on the second row.:)
13:31:27 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, sailor @ Jolla, Sitting at home wishing I was at FOSDEM :(
13:31:28 <DylanVanAssche> #info Dylan Van Assche, community @FOSDEM
13:31:30 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson, sailing @ fosdem
13:31:38 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe - @FOSDEM
13:31:39 <Stskeeps> #info Carsten Munk, CTO @ Zipper
13:31:40 <Tofe> #info Christophe Chapuis, community member
13:31:44 <luen> #info Erik Lundin, community
13:31:52 <Mister_Magister> #info Mister_Magister, community and mad porter
13:31:52 <Sfiet_Konstantin> Stskeeps: @FSODEM too right ?
13:31:54 <dr_gogeta86> #info Fabio Isgrò, community
13:31:59 <mal> #info Matti Lehtimäki, porter etc
13:32:01 <alterego> #info Tom Swindell cheer leader
13:32:06 <zarel> #info David zarel Costa, community, @fosdem
13:32:09 <jvd_> #info Tommi Keisala, community @FOSDEM
13:32:22 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling, community, porter
13:32:22 <AL13N_jolla_> #info AL13N , betatester @ Fosdem
13:32:27 <rainemak> #info Raine M�kel�inen, sailor @ Jolla
13:32:30 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla
13:32:38 <Piggz_> #info piggz mido porter, not @fosdem
13:32:47 <objectifnul_> #info cedesguin near Brussels, community lurker
13:33:01 <jusa> #info Juhu Hämäläinen, sailor @ Jolla, not @fosdem, presently doing other things but try to idle here and react to possible highlights
13:33:05 <eekkelund> #eekkelund @fosdem
13:33:10 <jusa> #info Juho Hämäläinen :)
13:33:27 <sledges> #topic Splitscreen/PiP Multitasking (asked by nh1402 - 10 min)
13:33:34 <sledges> #info Previously talked about, arrange time for separate meeting to get it off the ground, to work on it with the glacier ui.
13:33:36 <krnlyng> #info Frajo Haider, sailor @ jolla
13:33:50 <stephg> whowver has the Black X compact can they start sending it back to the back of the room so the new people can have a play?
13:34:00 <kimmoli> sledges: only 3 min gone
13:34:16 <sledges> kimmoli: we're squeezing timeand space
13:34:26 <krisko> #info krisko, community member
13:34:41 <nh1402_> yes, so this topic was last brought up a few months back now
13:35:02 <gischpelino[m]> #info jolladiho, community
13:35:47 <nh1402_> and we agreed to have a separate meeting to get it off the ground, agree on implementation details, before actual development work
13:37:03 <lbt> #info David Greaves; Sailor and Mer guy :)
13:37:07 <ApBBB> nh1402_: not something we need -since there are no tablets- but nice to have i guess
13:37:09 <sledges> jpetrell: couple of words perhaps on the topic? :)
13:37:31 <nh1402_> it doesn't have to be tablet only...
13:37:35 <Mister_Magister> ApBBB: there are tablets
13:37:39 <Mister_Magister> for example nexus 7
13:37:43 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: i have a tablet :p
13:37:44 <Sfiet_Konstantin> Agree to use it on a phone too :)
13:37:45 <nh1402_> android has Picture in Picture on phones, and that works fine
13:37:54 <tadzik> I guess even w/o a tablet having a bit of a screen dedicated to an always-on-top app
13:37:58 <tadzik> (phone call, perhaps)
13:38:03 <ApBBB> the ux how you initiate the split screen is something that needs a lot of tought
13:38:11 <sledges> nh1402_: certainly important topic, several hands went up in the audience here who agrees for th eneed
13:38:17 <ApBBB> no tablets = nothing widely available
13:38:34 <ApBBB> the audio is a bit choppy BTW
13:38:50 <nh1402_> I suppose the best place to have a meeting would be on this channel at some point
13:38:52 <r0kk3rz> you can still buy the son tablet im using
13:39:12 <AL13N_jolla_> it should work on pbones too, small apps
13:39:12 <r0kk3rz> sony
13:40:01 <qwazix> It's quite useful for chatting e.g. while browsing.
13:40:23 <dr_gogeta86> or even for videos
13:41:28 <jpetrell> larger the screen more important split screen is. thus e.g. sailfish os tablet UX doesn't work that well in 8"+ screens
13:41:29 <nh1402_> ApBBB: yes, I can't follow what discussion is going on
13:41:33 <sledges> small brainstorm about having sfos on projectors, also for splitscreen benefit?
13:41:39 <ApBBB> on one hand devices like the phone we are quite covered with the fast switching between apps. on tablets -two hand devices- that is a different story
13:41:45 <Sfiet_Konstantin> What about ... windows like on a desktop ?
13:41:59 <Sfiet_Konstantin> I guess this won't be a popular idea on phones but on tablets this *can* make some sense
13:42:06 <nh1402_> sledges: when you say projector do you mean that Xperia projector?
13:42:32 <ApBBB> Sfiet_Konstantin: the desktop paradigm is different than mobile (tablets phones)
13:43:21 <nh1402_> it is but phones are capable, performance wise of having proper multitasking
13:43:25 <stephg> nh1402_: yes
13:43:36 <nh1402_> in whatever form that might be
13:43:36 <ApBBB> i would suggest a three finger closing switpe to halve the screen and get a luncher for another app on half the screen
13:43:53 <stephg> nh1402_: alin jerpalea said that it's not in the Open Devices programme yet but will be very soon
13:43:54 <jpetrell> Sfiet_Konstantin: hard to make optimal layout if the window size is fully dynamic that you can shrink and expand as you like
13:43:59 <Sfiet_Konstantin> ApBBB: ???
13:44:05 <Sfiet_Konstantin> jpetrell: ok
13:44:17 <Mister_Magister> apps would need to be updated for splitscreen too
13:44:26 <abranson> #info Community meetings will be held in the same style as Chris' Cal/CardDAV meetings
13:44:28 <sledges> #topic Sailfish Browser (asked by Nokius - 10 min)
13:44:34 <tadzik> there are some android deices doing splitscreen, perhaps some ideas can be stole^Wborrowed
13:44:36 <sledges> #info What are future plans to keep the Browser on the edge of time. It will be one issue with zipper as the Browser is bit dusty. The engine is old and users face issues with mis-functioning websites. The Browser is one of the most important application on a mobile device. Is it a option to move to QtWebEngine as it has a relationship to Chromium. Is a step to Qt 5.10 LTS needed first?
13:44:41 <Mister_Magister> content of each app would have to be pur in scrollable
13:44:48 <Mister_Magister> put*
13:45:27 <jpetrell> split screen puts quite much demain on homescreen (multitasking), system UI (keyboard, system dialogs, focus handling), UI toolkit (scalability) and apps (different size variants), a big project
13:45:43 <ApBBB> if we can get the new firefox stuff on SFOS -or firefox itself- would be awesome :/
13:46:45 <abranson> #info things like webrtc are in the platform, but haven't been integrated into the browser UI
13:46:51 <nh1402_> to build firefox the minimum version of GCC needed is 4.9
13:47:01 <nh1402_> Sailfish uses 4.8 iirc
13:47:04 <Sfiet_Konstantin> nh1402_: super transition to some later topic :D
13:47:31 <abranson> #info the question now is whether it's worth investing more effort into maintaining the embedded gecko engine, or should we switch to another engine that's better maintained externalls
13:47:34 <Sfiet_Konstantin> how easy is to plug all these stuff (webrtc & friends) to connect to the gui ?
13:47:53 <Sfiet_Konstantin> + isn't gecko now need rust ?
13:48:10 <nh1402_> I think it's possible to modify firefox ui via userchrome.css changes to use that natively
13:48:10 <abranson> #info a decision should be made this year about which direction to take, but it's not a simple one
13:48:22 <jwalck> nh1402_: it'd be interesting to see what's stopping us from running Firefox on Sailfish OS. I remember early firefox mobile/fennec development on maemo as the primary platform...
13:48:33 <jpetrell> moving to new Chrome-tech based Browser engine is big project, would need prototyping to better understand effort. something community member could perhaps do. :P :)
13:48:35 <jwalck> so GCC version may be one limit
13:48:39 <Mister_Magister> jpetrell: gcc version mainly
13:48:46 <Mister_Magister> we have very ancient gcc
13:48:49 <Sfiet_Konstantin> jpetrell: interesting
13:48:54 <nh1402_> about quicksilver, the build system was significantly changed
13:48:54 <ApBBB> with firefox/mozilla engine getting a lot better is kind of weird to change now
13:49:05 <Mister_Magister> jolla should update it like every normal distribution
13:49:08 <nh1402_> I tried to update that but it was too different.
13:49:39 <nh1402_> technically you can build chrome for Sailfish too, but not sure about GCC version
13:49:48 <rainemak> nh1402_, sf browser doesn't have xul ui and has been utilizing partially elecrolysis since dawn
13:50:08 <Sfiet_Konstantin> rainemak: the electrolysis part is interesting
13:50:37 <alterego> I bet chrome has better hardware support like what was previously mentioned.
13:50:50 <jpetrell> ideally we kept all the upstream libraries, including gecko engine, always up-to-date in recent version. unfortunately we don't have resources to do that alone internally. there are more focus on upgrading the middleware, e.g. due to security nowadays compared to situation few years back
13:51:20 <jpetrell> middleware upgrades are again something community can help with, it is all open source
13:51:34 <Sfiet_Konstantin> jpetrell: what kind of upgrades are you talking about ?
13:52:44 <jpetrell> Sfiet_Konstantin: Browser, Tracker, different app-specific backends, there are hundreds of libs
13:52:54 <Sfiet_Konstantin> ok
13:53:16 <nh1402_> rainemak: I was talking about using firefox natively in Sailfish, and not modifying the sf browser
13:53:26 <rainemak> ok
13:53:53 <nh1402_> work actively being done to get firefox working in wayland
13:54:08 <jpetrell> upgrading upstream framework often requires upgrading half-dozen other libraries. some will cause conflicts that need sorting out, creating patches and testing
13:54:48 <sledges> #action approach other manufacturers/communities for help, such as Mozilla, Vivaldi
13:54:53 <sledges> #info Sony Xperia X insides about the project (asked by Nokius - 10 min)
13:54:58 <Sfiet_Konstantin> jpetrell: how could we help on this one ?
13:55:08 <ApBBB> nh1402_: an app on sfos wihtout proper UI is useless
13:55:10 <sledges> #undo
13:55:10 <merbot`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x3e45e10>
13:55:15 <sledges> #topic Sony Xperia X insides about the project (asked by Nokius - 10 min)
13:55:19 <sledges> #info some details about the topic: For me as community member SailfishX was the biggest Story for Jolla in 2017. Could we, the community get some insides about the project like: active Users; sold licenses; markt responce; contribution from the community (patches / fixes / ...); tell us about good and downsides (if possible); What does Sony say? Do they like this SailfishOS on there Device \[^_^]/
13:55:36 <nh1402_> ApBBB: ui can be modified, via userchrome.css
13:56:09 <Sfiet_Konstantin> veskuh-laptop is happy with the sales number
13:56:50 <abranson> #info numbers are better than we expected, but we're not giving a fixed number ;) It's not taken over the world, but it's very encouraging. Tell your friends...
13:59:33 <abranson> #info Alin from Sony likes his Sailfish install
14:00:14 <nh1402_> what happened to Sony's mainlining effort?
14:00:17 <dr_gogeta86> sledges, write it down
14:00:23 <dr_gogeta86> was all stutter
14:00:43 <stephg> nh1402_: how do you mean?
14:00:45 <abranson> #info Thanks to him and his team for providing the AOSP base, which is also helped stephg bring Sailfish to the X Compact, and r0kk3rz bring it to his Z3 tablet
14:00:46 <Sfiet_Konstantin> we all miss double tap though :D
14:01:21 <AL13N_jolla_> ah, I noticed that too
14:01:34 <nh1402_> a couple of years ago now, at fosdem they announced they were trying to mainline their kernel patches
14:01:38 <nh1402_> i think
14:01:38 <dr_gogeta86> audio down
14:01:57 <stephg> nh1402_: upstream you mean?
14:02:04 <nh1402_> yes
14:02:35 <r0kk3rz> nh1402_: its still on going
14:02:53 <luen> @steph: How far away is a public image for Xperia X Compact?
14:03:18 <stephg> I will try and get it out this week
14:03:30 <sledges> #topic Nokius Looking back into 2017 / Outlook for 2018 (asked by Nokius - 1 min)
14:03:34 <luen> Beautiful! :)
14:03:51 <sledges> #info Please share a bit about what happened in 2017? What was achieved what is an outcome, where is improvement needed? Did Jolla reached there end year gole? Where you like to go in 2018. Are the millstones for this year. [please answer this question to target the audiences community not your investors ;) bit transparency to the community many thanks in advance
14:03:57 <sledges> #link https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-x-whats-next/
14:04:29 <sledges> #topic QtFeedback QML module (Dylan Van Assche - 10 mins)
14:04:50 <sledges> #info The simple QtFeedback QML module isn't allowed in Jolla Harbour, is there a reason for this? For some apps (messaging, ...) it might be interesting to provide the user some haptic feedback. I was surprised this module was not allowed in Jolla Harbour since it's included in the Components example app in the SDK.
14:05:15 <veskuh-laptop> pvuorela: ^
14:06:29 <nh1402_> on a side note is this audio cast being recorded offline, for future reference?
14:06:31 <pasko_> Hi. Sorry I'm late.
14:07:07 <nh1402_> because I can't follow it live, and would like to hear the discussion
14:07:19 <Mister_Magister> nh1402_: there is almost nothing to hear
14:07:22 <abranson> #info Dylan said it's used as an example in the SDK, but isn't allowed in the harbour
14:07:27 <Mister_Magister> quality is terrible i cant understand thing
14:07:32 <rainemak> we had discussions with jpetrell and pvuorela that we should document QtFeedback well supported parts
14:07:34 <sledges> nh1402_: Mister_Magister: because no-one is talking :) these are more Q&A rather than discussions
14:07:59 <Mister_Magister> sledges: even if someone is talking its hard to understand a word
14:08:16 <sledges> Mister_Magister: im using it as mic, and talking straight into, also bringing up to other people when they talk
14:08:23 <sledges> repeating questions from the back
14:08:48 <DylanVanAssche> rainemak: allowing would be great even if there's no documentation for it yet
14:09:06 <sledges> unfortunately we do not record this offline, so we'll summarise main points (for two last discussion/like topics)
14:09:11 <sledges> nh1402_: ^
14:09:19 <andrewalker> is the documentation the reason for it to be blacklisted?
14:09:21 <Sfiet_Konstantin> rainemak: is this also a call to have documentation be written (maybe by us ?)
14:09:45 <tadzik> I think all developers would appreciate some transparency regarding blacklisting
14:09:56 <rainemak> Sfiet_Konstantin, did mean that
14:09:57 <tadzik> like "why is this thing not allowed even if it's preinstalled" etc
14:10:07 <rainemak> DylanVanAssche, yes there's a clear need
14:10:08 <Sfiet_Konstantin> tadzik: agreed
14:10:14 <sledges> andrewalker: maybe it has just fallen through the cracks
14:10:17 <abranson> #info Pekka's not around, so we'll postpone this question, but it could be added after this request.
14:10:29 <sledges> time is precious, moving on
14:10:33 <sledges> #topic C++ compiler upgrade (Sfiet_Konstantin (Lucien Xu) - 10 mins)
14:10:35 <Sfiet_Konstantin> a simple table in SFOS wiki could do
14:10:37 <tadzik> there's a striking about of apps that are either nerfed for harbour or not available there at all
14:10:39 <sledges> #info Is Jolla thinking or planning to upgrade the version of GCC to support C++14/17 in the near future ? Any roadmap ?
14:10:43 <veskuh-laptop> tadzik: I think we are working other way around. We've whitelisted some libs that we know that are good.
14:11:06 <tadzik> veskuh: nodnod
14:11:35 <matteone> hi, did I miss the meeting is thre
14:11:48 <Mister_Magister> sledges: even if somebody is talking quality is too bad to understand anything cause its cutting in half words sometime you can hear…
14:11:48 <matteone> there a transcript?
14:11:53 <stephg> matteone: is still on going
14:13:08 <sledges> Mister_Magister: well, we tried, sorry:)
14:13:14 <Mister_Magister> np ;)
14:13:19 <Mister_Magister> thanks for trying
14:13:27 <Mister_Magister> just leave some info here too
14:13:33 <sledges> we're in Faraday cage here, will improve in future, with offlince recording ;)
14:13:38 <sledges> yep, minutising in progress
14:13:56 <Sfiet_Konstantin> sledges: FOSDEM is basically a huge faraday cage :(
14:14:06 <Mister_Magister> gcc topic is back almost on every meeting it really should be updated
14:14:11 <abranson> #info it's not on the short-term roadmap for now. there are lots of interactions with the build environment, and compatibilty issues to address
14:14:33 <matteone> sailfish browser does not support WebRTC :/
14:14:35 <Sfiet_Konstantin> community help needed too ^
14:14:56 <Mister_Magister> wouldnt it be possible to have both 4.8 and newer?
14:15:54 <Mister_Magister> for keeping back compatibility
14:16:35 <Sfiet_Konstantin> we are discussing C++11 ABI change
14:16:51 <Mister_Magister> ps i really need to be on fosdem 2019…
14:16:52 <Sfiet_Konstantin> hoping that new GCC still have the "keep old ABI" flag
14:16:59 <Sfiet_Konstantin> Mister_Magister: please yeah
14:18:18 <sledges> let us move ahead
14:18:19 <sledges> #topic Community involvement in SFOS (asked by Nokius - 10 min)
14:18:21 <sledges> #info Insides where get's community involved in SailfishOS. Is Community a driving factor for Jolla / SailfishOS? What are KPIs in the Community involved Project Translations. Where could community be involved more?
14:18:29 <Mister_Magister> Sfiet_Konstantin: i'm wondering what is difference between sfos and other distros that we cant update abi like others
14:18:36 <Sfiet_Konstantin> there are some discussions around about gcc
14:18:58 <Sfiet_Konstantin> Mister_Magister: one thing is the build system: host gcc should be upgrated too, and probably scratchbox
14:19:07 <Mister_Magister> yeah
14:19:12 <dr_gogeta86> video is on
14:19:26 <Mister_Magister> dr_gogeta86: i see black hole
14:20:08 <sledges> can't get video frames out, just tried to show what swag we have, so next time you should come to FOSDEM and grab it ;)
14:20:19 <dr_gogeta86> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/959792355971928064
14:20:38 <dr_gogeta86> Network team wants to raise awareness we see MITM attack attempts. Use secure protocols to connect to the outside! Also if you are the one doing this please come to the NOC, we have a present for you ;)
14:20:50 <dr_gogeta86> from @fosdem
14:20:59 <Mister_Magister> sledges: send photo then :D
14:21:02 <sledges> thanks, we use mobile data access points
14:21:14 <sledges> Mister_Magister: i'll, but not via jitsi
14:23:41 <Mister_Magister> if you mean community i made some PR so i think it also counts :P
14:23:50 <Sfiet_Konstantin> dicussions here were about: we really need new gcc for C++>11. Can we build it from community, as a separate package on /opt ? And can Jolla, at some point benefit from it, gracefully transitioning their package to this new gcc too ?
14:23:51 <Mister_Magister> or what mal is doing
14:24:02 <Sfiet_Konstantin> indede
14:26:35 <abranson> #info veskuh: we're very proud of the community translation programme - it's grown to the point where ten new languages were added to a release. it's a great example of community collaboration done right.
14:36:49 <sledges> #info PSA: the next upgrade will remove harbour-warehouse and harbour-storeman, and we're calling community's help to get involved and upgrade the package-kit api that the next upgrade will change
14:36:55 <Mister_Magister> maybe we should move forward
14:37:06 <sledges> we tried to reach out to the author of warehouse, but it bore no fruit sadly
14:37:28 <Mister_Magister> sledges: better author of storeman
14:37:58 <M4rtinK> so what's the plan foreward for OpenRepos ?
14:38:19 <sledges> Mister_Magister: anything goes at this point
14:38:34 <Mister_Magister> sledges: what?
14:38:49 <sledges> M4rtinK: warehouse and/or storeman need to update the way they talk to packagekit in its new API
14:38:50 <M4rtinK> it's the main source of applications for a lot (majoriy ?) of Sailfish OS users due to Harbour limitations
14:39:16 <tadzik> the harbour store is also not available on community ports, or is it?
14:39:21 <Mister_Magister> yeah like i never go into harbour
14:39:22 <sledges> M4rtinK: can still download rpm through browser from openrepos
14:39:22 <Sfiet_Konstantin> mer contrib is a set of repo in which any community member can submit PRs before inclusion in Mer
14:39:23 <tadzik> maybe it is, nevermind
14:39:26 <Mister_Magister> always into openrepos
14:39:29 <sledges> tadzik: it is
14:39:41 <Mister_Magister> tadzik: ofcourse it is
14:39:53 <Mister_Magister> maybe you were using some *weak* port
14:40:00 <Sfiet_Konstantin> Sorry for bringing this now, but is there any news about components open sourcing ? (sledges ?)
14:40:15 <M4rtinK> so many ports will loose *all* user friendly application access ? that sounds pretty catastrophic
14:40:17 <tadzik> yeah, not sure where I got that idea now that I think of it :)
14:40:27 <Mister_Magister> sledges: you still can add repo manually :P
14:41:03 <Mister_Magister> M4rtinK: openrepos are main source of applications thats true
14:41:33 <Mister_Magister> so audio is dead completly
14:41:41 * Sfiet_Konstantin think about SFOS Silica
14:42:00 <Sfiet_Konstantin> (to link with other topics: so that you can have Qt 5.bleeding edge build of Silica)
14:42:48 <abranson> #info veskuh says that we've been consulting with a former Meego colleague about the best way to proceed with this. Hopefully he'll be able to recommend a plan to legally take steps to open source stuff in the right way.
14:43:00 <sledges> let's move on to the last
14:43:20 <sledges> let's discuss warehouse/storeman elsewhere, and we'll communicate properly, also in next meeting
14:43:20 <Mister_Magister> sledges: waiting for general discussion :P
14:43:23 <sledges> #topic Jolla & Zipper collaboration Q&A (r0kk3rz - 10 mins)
14:43:41 <Sfiet_Konstantin> veskuh-laptop: please keep us posted
14:43:48 <sledges> #info Since we will have representatives from both Jolla and Zipper present @ FOSDEM this is a good opportunity for the community to talk to them about the Zipper project and where it fits in with Sailfish OS
14:47:56 <abranson> #info From Jolla's side, there are lots of possibilities that Zipper could bring, such as paying for payments, donating to websites, rewarding translations and putting up bug bounties
14:48:30 <M4rtinK> I think at this point *any* integrated payment/donation method is good
14:49:33 <Mister_Magister> this meeting is really quiet
14:49:43 <lbt> not sure if Stskeeps is still around
14:49:59 <ApBBB> i am down for payment methods as long as its using fiat currencies
14:50:48 <M4rtinK> I guess some sort of automatic conversion would would work
14:51:17 <M4rtinK> eq. having some third party convert any *coin you get to "real money" automatically
14:51:20 <ApBBB> M4rtinK: conversions = middleman = increased cost
14:51:25 <sledges> Mister_Magister: sorry no time for general discussion in fosdem :) we are being kicked out :D
14:51:36 <M4rtinK> sure, but you actually can have a cost this way :)
14:51:45 <Mister_Magister> sledges: F*********
14:51:52 <abranson> #info but the technical aspects of store payments were never difficult to implement - the problems was always the legal/administrative aspects for exchanging money for this
14:51:59 <ApBBB> sledges: when are you expected to annouce the next device? approximately
14:51:59 <M4rtinK> time for hallway discussion ? :)
14:52:10 <sledges> with the amount of people and voice/text general discussion would go out of control :)
14:52:18 <M4rtinK> we are a mobile community, right ? ;-)
14:52:28 <Mister_Magister> sledges: doubt nobody is writting there
14:52:29 <Sfiet_Konstantin> M4rtinK: :D
14:53:01 <M4rtinK> so I guess there will be some meeting notes later on posted ?
14:53:25 <M4rtinK> (I guess not everything was transcribed & the streaming unfortunately did not work very well)
14:54:13 <sledges> M4rtinK: all important bits were transcribed in #info
14:54:25 <Mister_Magister> rainemak: can i ask you something after meeting?
14:55:51 <M4rtinK> sledges: cool! :)
14:57:11 <jwalck> one thing that we couldn't fit today but which I would like an update on: Fairphone and Jolla status. I'll search for answers while I'm here in Brussels.:)
14:57:25 <Sfiet_Konstantin> :D
14:57:32 <sledges> jwalck: no announcements on the marriage:)
14:57:32 <abranson> #info Sebastian Wolf is working on his own german-based payment system for his Piepmatz twitter app. He's got quite far along withit, dealing with a reseller.
14:57:37 <Sfiet_Konstantin> I would say that it is currently a one man effort (thanks mal)
14:58:06 <jwalck> sledges: but you're talking about the marriage as a thing that exists/is planned? engaged already?;)
15:00:37 <sledges> jwalck: it was called like this few years ago
15:00:56 <sledges> thank you all!
15:01:03 <sledges> #topic Next meeting date
15:01:15 <sledges> proposing two Thursdays later
15:01:24 <sledges> 15th February 2018
15:01:24 <Mister_Magister> Quasarmx have paymant system and its working
15:01:25 <sledges> +1?
15:01:40 <Mister_Magister> +1 whatever
15:01:54 <Jaymzz> +1
15:02:39 <Mister_Magister> hmm rainemak is afk? no good
15:02:43 <sledges> 2weeks before MWC:)
15:03:01 <sledges> thank you, that was intense and awesome!!
15:03:03 <sledges> #endmeeting