09:03:23 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration –March 8th 2018
09:03:23 <merbot`> Meeting started Thu Mar  8 09:03:23 2018 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
09:03:23 <merbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:03:33 <Jaymzz> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2018-March/008314.html
09:03:34 <tbr> :)
09:03:42 <ced117> good.
09:03:46 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
09:03:56 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
09:04:06 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, sailor @ Jolla
09:04:16 <ced117> #info Cedric Heintz, community member
09:04:16 <richrboo> #info Richard Booth - community
09:04:44 <chriadam_> #info Chris Adams, developer at Jolla
09:05:00 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson, dev @ Jolla
09:05:29 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla
09:05:31 <atlochowski> #info Andrzej Lochowski, community
09:05:48 <Nokius> #info Nokius, community
09:05:54 <urjaman> #info Urja Rannikko, community (i guess)
09:06:12 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe - wizard, chaotic neutral
09:06:19 <ljo> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community
09:07:08 <takimata> #info takimata - community (listener)
09:07:22 <rainemak> #info Raine M�kel�inen, sailor @ Jolla
09:09:08 <Jaymzz> #topic: Sailfish OS and QtQuick Controls 2.0 (25 min – asked by marmistrz )
09:09:12 <Jaymzz> #info The Qt ecosystem is moving and what was not present in 2014 becomes the new standard. I mean: QtQuick Controls 2.0. These are getting more and more popular and mobile-optimized. Does Jolla intend to replace Sailfish Silica with custom-styled QtQuick Controls? Platforms using QQC2 get many benefits for free:
09:09:12 <Jaymzz> portability: Sailfish will benefit from the development done for Nemo or KDE Plasma and even some Android development, it's much easier to port a desktop application
09:09:12 <Jaymzz> open-source and transparency - the only proprietary bits are the ones responsible for styling - this is much better for the relations with the community
09:09:12 <Jaymzz> lower maintenance burden - all you need to maintain is the styling. The rest is done by the Qt team.
09:09:12 <Jaymzz> popularity - there are many QQC2 tutorials, much more than Silica ones ... and you don't need to open-source anything to get there.
09:09:34 <vakkov_> #info Vasil Filipov - community
09:10:22 <Jaymzz> It seems that marmistrz is not available but the info section is complete enough to go ahead and keep the topic alive for the next 25 minutes depending on the discussions around it.
09:10:27 <nh1402> #info nh1402, failed to end last meeting
09:10:39 <Jaymzz> nh1402: ;D no harm done
09:11:10 <urjaman> yeah, i hope it was okay to impersonate you for that one line :P
09:11:55 <r0kk3rz> I can lead on this one, basically there has been some noise in the community about portability of apps to different platforms
09:12:12 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz:  Thank you for this :)
09:12:26 <r0kk3rz> and with silica being closed that doesnt make things trivial, as developers have to support multiple UI component sets
09:13:00 <r0kk3rz> many other QML component sets base themselves on top of Qt Quick Controls 1/2 mostly as a Theme
09:13:25 <r0kk3rz> with a few extended components for any special concept they might have
09:13:43 <nh1402> I know this is about Qt but portability of apps also applies with Apache Cordova
09:14:02 <r0kk3rz> Is jolla open to the idea of rebasing Silica on top of something like Qt Quick Controls 2 for instance?
09:14:53 <r0kk3rz> this would at least allow apps that only use basic components like labels and buttons to be freely portable
09:15:04 <vakkov_> nh1402; +1; been trying to port it (cordova) over for the past few days
09:16:26 <Jaymzz> pvuorela: jpetrell: Would you guys care to comment? :)
09:17:50 <chriadam_> Has anyone from community done a small proof-of-concept port, using the publicly available silica .qml sources?
09:18:04 <chriadam_> e.g. of the button/label types?
09:18:43 <jpetrell> Sailfish OS -style has quite special UI design (gestures, pulleys, etc.) which is not easy to adapt to common API, Qt Quick Controls follows quite traditional toolbar, backbutton, tabs, etc. based UI design
09:19:24 <jpetrell> but definitely could be done, there has been discussion that we should provide toolbar and tabs components to make porting from other mobile systems easier
09:19:38 <chriadam_> Indeed, although various types are amenable, in theory, I guess.  But: 1) such a transition would need to be basically seamless for users.  2) we can't accept a large performance overhead (although with QQC2 I don't think that would be an issue, but would need benchmarks).
09:20:08 <Jaymzz> #info from jpetrell Sailfish OS -style has quite special UI design (gestures, pulleys, etc.) which is not easy to adapt to common API, Qt Quick Controls follows quite traditional toolbar, backbutton, tabs, etc. based UI design, but definitely could be done, there has been discussion that we should provide toolbar and tabs components to make porting from other mobile systems easier
09:20:19 <jpetrell> yeah earlier using cross-platform UI toolkits came with unacceptable performance compromises
09:20:43 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: tbh you'd probably see a performance improvement with QQC2
09:21:01 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: what's the rationale for that?
09:21:02 <ApBBB> we certainly dont need ported native apps that don't follow SFOSs style and UX :/
09:21:28 <r0kk3rz> for sure there are a lot of special silica ideas that dont really map, and indeed thats what we've found with experiments like Universal Components
09:21:45 <jpetrell> aa13q was planning to create Silica theme for QQC2, he had some proto up in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWgjSnNZxK0&feature=youtu.be
09:22:01 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: this is not *just* about sailfish, but also nemo, plasma, ubuntu .etc
09:22:27 <Jaymzz> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWgjSnNZxK0&feature=youtu.be
09:22:47 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: the Qt guys have put a *lot* of effort into performance in QQC2
09:23:06 <r0kk3rz> mostly becuase QQC1 was quite slow
09:23:37 <rainemak> QQC1 was slow (not quite)
09:23:47 <rainemak> horrible in mobile
09:23:56 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: right, but my point is that their basic idea is to separate the API from the styling in as minimal a way as possible.  but whatever styling you have, it still needs to be encapsulated in an object hierarchy.  so with Silica, we have that already, and if we ported to QQC2 in the best case, we'd have the same optimal hierarchy (because QQC2 doesn't add _extra_ overhead).
09:23:56 <rainemak> side note
09:24:43 <chriadam_> so while I might buy "QQC2 shouldn't slow things down at all" I'm not sure about "it should make things faster" -- except, of course, the act of porting could result in refactorings which might result in improvements.
09:24:49 <chriadam_> unless I'm missing something important ;-)
09:24:59 <ApBBB> r0kk3rz: the UX doesn't match. ie things like falldown (the game) and gooble invasion (game) feel out of place
09:25:15 <jpetrell> QQC2 definitely won't be faster than Silica when it comes to Sailfish OS UX
09:26:08 <User2325453> Are apps using QQC2 allowed in the harbour store?
09:26:26 <chriadam_> I assume an app could bundle it
09:26:30 <r0kk3rz> they would need to provide the QQC2 libraries, but otherwise sure
09:26:46 <physkets> #info physkets, user
09:26:48 <jpetrell> QQC2 was at tech preview state in qt 5.6
09:26:55 <jpetrell> not ready module
09:27:20 <jpetrell> Qt 5.7 or older needed
09:27:26 <jpetrell> newer sorry :)
09:27:38 <chriadam_> ah
09:28:11 <rainemak> jpetrell, actually I think 5.9 is needed
09:28:19 <r0kk3rz> yeah i was tempted to try and backport it from 5.7 branch, but if a qt upgrade is on the cards this year then maybe i'll just wait
09:29:12 <Jaymzz> about 5 minutes left of this topic's announced time. r0kk3rz would you think it's enough?
09:29:43 * stephg sorry I'm late
09:30:37 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: i think we're about done anyway, the case was made and heard :)
09:30:50 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: thanks
09:30:54 <Jaymzz> stephg: welcome :)
09:31:31 <Jaymzz> Moving on then
09:31:36 <Jaymzz> #topic Sailfish OS Open Source releases on sailfishos.org (10 min – asked by r0kk3rz )
09:31:48 <Jaymzz> #info The last code drop on releases.sailfishos.org was for 2.1.0 and we are now at 2.1.4, so can we at least get a code drop for 2.1.4?
09:31:58 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz:  the stage is still yours anyway ;)
09:32:56 <r0kk3rz> Hok!
09:33:15 <r0kk3rz> So i need to slap a few wrists because you guys have been lazy with the code drops!
09:33:18 <r0kk3rz> naughty!
09:33:22 <veskuh> We are working on pushing the code drops for the missing releases. There has been some infra changes, so changes to scripts that generate these were needed. Should be arriving in next couple of weeks.
09:33:31 <r0kk3rz> But of course it would be great to get some :)
09:33:44 <ced117> nice :)
09:33:52 <Nokius> \o/
09:34:00 <Jaymzz> #info from veskuh : We are working on pushing the code drops for the missing releases. There has been some infra changes, so changes to scripts that generate these were needed. Should be arriving in next couple of weeks.
09:34:36 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: I imagine you got your answer? :)
09:35:21 <r0kk3rz> Yeah basically it wasnt so much a question as making noise so you guys know that someone cares
09:35:49 <r0kk3rz> so we can move on
09:36:09 <Jaymzz> Awesome. Of course we care ;) moving on:
09:36:22 <Jaymzz> #topic SailfishX in India, Open-sourcing UI components  (10 min – asked by physkets )
09:36:33 <Jaymzz> #info The recent post on the SailfishX road-map (https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-x-whats-next/) indicates that India will soon be included as a place of sales. But this may be slightly meaningless, as the Sony Xperia X device is already out of stock in most places (online as well as offline). The XA, XA1 & R1 are now the Sony devices that are on sale. Given that, what exactly are the plans? Also, what is the status of open-sourcing
09:36:33 <Jaymzz> components? It would be nice to see a definite road-map for that.
09:37:29 <Jaymzz> physkets: The stage is yours for the next 10 min
09:37:36 <physkets> Thanks Jaymzz
09:38:07 <ApBBB> the whole UI opensourcing discussion has started to get on my nerves. i am 99.9% sure it wont make all those complaining about it contribute more.
09:38:59 <chriadam_> the opensourcing discussion is important and noise being made about it isn't bad IMO
09:39:09 <chriadam_> poke veskuh frequently :-P
09:39:44 <physkets> First things first... the roadmap indicated a port to a new device is in the works
09:39:57 <physkets> Is there any solid info on that?
09:40:05 <ApBBB> chriadam_: jolla has more serious issues than the UI being open or not.
09:40:13 <r0kk3rz> info on Sony XA2 was shown @ MWC last week
09:40:17 <ApBBB> physkets: XA2 was announced
09:40:26 <physkets> oh! I didn't know
09:40:40 <veskuh> chriadam_: Thanks, yeah it’s important topics. Unfortunately, I don’t have any news to share. Our position is still the same as before. There is still want to do more open sourcing, but haven’t been able to make more progress, and can’t share any concrete plans now.
09:41:34 <physkets> I don't think XA2 is available in India yet, but thats okay
09:41:57 <Jaymzz> #info from veskuh: Unfortunately, I don’t have any news to share. Our position is still the same as before. There is still want to do more open sourcing, but haven’t been able to make more progress, and can’t share any concrete plans now.
09:42:30 <Jaymzz> physkets: It's a newly released phone, and Sailfish X isn't released for it yet. I think by the time it's released, you'll have access to it in India as well :)
09:42:31 <richrboo> ApBBB: doesn't being open mitigate some issues Jolla face?
09:43:01 <physkets> That is great Jaymzz !
09:43:35 <ApBBB> richrboo: no. at least the UI part. If they decided to open apps (ie email which sucks) thats a whole different thing. but silica doesn't matter
09:44:12 <ApBBB> Other than HW which is the big one Jolla has an app problem
09:44:15 <Jaymzz> physkets: 2 minutes left, I inmagine
09:44:25 <Jaymzz> physkets: 2 minutes left, I imagine you got your anwer?
09:44:33 <physkets> Yep!
09:44:49 <nh1402> from a brief search it looks like the XA2 might launch this month in India
09:45:06 <nh1402> not sure how accurate those sites are though
09:45:22 <Jaymzz> thanks for the info nh1402 :)
09:45:32 <Jaymzz> moving on
09:45:35 <Jaymzz> #topic Multitasking meeting (5min – asked by nh1402)
09:45:41 <Jaymzz> #info I have started bi-weekly multitasking meeting on this channel to try and get it off the ground. here is the tjc post for more details
09:46:06 <Jaymzz> Pretty self explanatory - anything you wanna add nh1402?
09:46:43 <nh1402> next meeting is in 3 weeks, Thursday 29th March 2018 09:00 UTC
09:47:21 <chriadam_> uh, what was the tjc post link?
09:47:32 <nh1402> https://together.jolla.com/question/179218/picture-in-picture-split-screen-multitasking-meeting-planning/
09:47:35 <chriadam_> thanks
09:47:46 <Jaymzz> chriadam_: Oops, sorry I somehow forgot to copy
09:48:00 <Jaymzz> #info next meeting is in 3 weeks, Thursday 29th March 2018 09:00 UTC
09:48:11 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/179218/picture-in-picture-split-screen-multitasking-meeting-planning/
09:49:06 <Jaymzz> nh1402: this is a great initiative, thank you. if you have nothing more to add, we will move on to general discussion :)
09:49:32 <nh1402> well I can't think of anything else
09:49:40 <nh1402> r0kk3rz: locusf: anything you want to add?
09:50:19 <chriadam_> nh1402: concretely, do you need input from Sailors?  not sure what availability will be this month, we're pretty flat out until the next release branches at least
09:51:33 <chriadam_> I suspect denexter may have had some prototype or other, back in the day.  jpetrell would know details I guess.  but I'm not too familiar with the compositor side, so not sure which pieces would need changes
09:51:48 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: it would be nice, but its not absolutely required because all the components we're using are open
09:52:14 <r0kk3rz> but if any sailor had ideas or thoughts about how to accomplish this it would be most appreciated
09:53:18 <Jaymzz> Alright, moving on
09:53:19 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (15 min)
09:53:26 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: ping me just before the next meeting pls
09:53:33 <chriadam_> I'll try to drag denexter into it ;-)
09:53:47 <chriadam_> no promises
09:53:53 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: will do!
09:53:57 <chriadam_> ta
09:54:53 <ApBBB> Since it s general discusion. I'd like to express my dissapointment with the XA2 announcement. Was expecting/hopping something better. Jaymzz also said that the annoucement would be good and had higher hopes for MWC
09:55:13 <jpetrell> ApBBB: better how?
09:55:24 <physkets> I was just cuious about how good the cameras are, of Xperia devices, under Sailfish
09:55:25 <vakkov_> I would like to ask a few things; abranson, what do you mean by "compelling case for open sourcing the sfos one" <-- you were talking about the jolla-camera app; It was an issue when I was helping Msameer back in 2015 and we were using cameraplus... but can we still get this opened (as it is the most "up to date" camera app)
09:55:41 <ApBBB> also could someone confirm that the email improvements fix this>https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/ its a 2.5 years bug
09:56:05 <ApBBB> jpetrell: still bitter
09:56:15 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: You mean a better phone? Or what do you mean by something better? XA2 is a great device and I'd give my X up for it any day
09:56:41 <nh1402> my guess would be XZ1/XZ2 Compact
09:56:41 <ced117> oh, yes, tell me this issue is fixed.
09:56:41 <ApBBB> basically something smaller. those things are stupid big
09:56:45 <vakkov_> uhm, another thing - can we build some sort of a list/table with all the missing camera features that android has and indicate which of them are missing in the UI and which are not at all implemented in the middleware
09:56:49 <physkets> XA2 looks good, and is more affordable, than the X
09:57:14 <nh1402> don't forget available, recently announced.
09:57:18 <abranson> vakkov_: I meant that it would be a good reason to add to the list favouring open-sourcing the camera app. i don't know whether or not it's likely to happen soon, but the more reasons the better
09:57:18 <ApBBB> nh1402: if it was xz2 Compact a big case of beers would have been flying to Helsinki
09:57:37 <r0kk3rz> but the xz2 isnt so compact
09:57:45 <ApBBB> r0kk3rz: yes.
09:57:46 <nh1402> it also lacks the headphone jack
09:57:52 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: you have Sailfish UX, no screen is too big when you don't need to stretch your thumb that often to reach stuff. We're adding even more improvements in that same regard to Sailfish 3
09:58:22 <vakkov_> yet another thing - what happens with aarch64 support (i know that p11-kit has to be fixed).. so how can i obtain an aarch64 sb2 target/toolchain with this new platform sdk (some things have changed in the past 2 years)
09:58:26 <ApBBB> its not only about finger movement. its also about pocketabilityu
09:58:27 <jpetrell> ApBBB: the market has spoken, industry is gradually going to bigger display sizes. we cannot support many models, need to find good compromise.
09:58:34 <abranson> vakkov_: that's a good idea
09:58:36 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: but XZ2 compact is not that much smaller than xa2 honestly. I held both in hand and the difference is not that big
09:58:38 <physkets> nh1402: oh! the XA2 lacks a headphone jack?
09:58:39 <vakkov_> abranson, what are the reasons to still keep it closed
09:58:47 <nh1402> speaking of Sailfish 3, would the swipe from top gesture to kill apps still be available, or is that being overridden?
09:58:58 <ApBBB> if it was xz1c it would be prefect i think.
09:59:08 <nh1402> physkets: the XZ2 series does, not the XA2
09:59:14 <ApBBB> sony fucked it up a  bit with xz2c but anyway.
09:59:15 <vakkov_> by an sb2 target, I mean that i would like to build those locally, on my PC - https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor?utf8=%E2%9C%93&commit=Filter%3A&failed=1&unresolvable=1&broken=1&locked=1&deleting=1&pkgname=&repo_latest_aarch64=1&repo_latest_armv7hl=1&repo_latest_i486=1&repo_latest_x86_64=1&arch_aarch64=1&lastbuild=1&project=mer%3Acore&defaults=0
09:59:16 <physkets> ah, cool
09:59:25 <jpetrell> nh1402: we need easy edge gesture for app closing, not sure if it will stay on top
09:59:26 <ApBBB> jpetrell: any comment on the email bug?
09:59:38 <ApBBB> jpetrell: https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/
09:59:41 <abranson> vakkov_: i'm afraid i don't know the detailed arguments of why things are closed source or not. it's more of a management matter.
10:00:01 <vakkov_> abranson, well, you can be the source of this info (about the camera support), I guess - I just found out that MSameer has left
10:00:23 <vakkov_> I mean the info for the list/table of missing features
10:00:23 <abranson> yeah, i have some internal lists for various devices I've worked on
10:00:32 <vakkov_> who else deals with the camera layer
10:00:44 <vakkov_> can you "open" them on the wiki?
10:01:04 <ApBBB> jpetrell: one more complain. the guy who designed the new camera UI has probaly never used SFOS.
10:01:19 <jpetrell> ApBBB: why?
10:01:22 <nh1402> jpetrell: a screen has 4 edges, all of them are now being used, what edge gesture would be left?, from left is event, from right is back to the homescreen, from bottom is app drawer, from top is the ambience and this new shortcuts thing
10:01:24 <abranson> vakkov_: this command lists all the camera params for a device. you need gstreamer-1.0-droid-tools installed: GST_DEBUG=6 mk-cam-conf 0 /dev/null 2>&1 | grep params_parse
10:01:57 <nh1402> not complaining, I'm just wondering a possible solution to app closing shortcut would be.
10:02:03 <abranson> vakkov_: I do the middleware and droid interface now that MSameer has left. i don't know the Qt wrapper or UI so well though.
10:02:10 <phlixi_o> i never ever change ambience
10:02:18 <jpetrell> nh1402: it could be the lenght of the gesture or change in the direction of the drag (e.g. think BB10, latest iOS)
10:02:30 <phlixi_o> just make it configurable, app closing instead of stupid ambiances
10:02:42 <ApBBB> jpetrell: feels totally wrong. swiping anywhere in the screen to change vid/photo can interfere with other options if you are not precise.
10:02:51 <r0kk3rz> phlixi_o: did you not see that the ambiance menu and quick settings are being merged
10:03:29 <ApBBB> jpetrell: also he made the iso options tapable instead of a pulley and they are on the top of the screen (hard to reach)
10:03:34 <jpetrell> ApBBB: vid/photo? not sure I follow
10:03:55 <phlixi_o> r0kk3rz im fine with quick settongs only available from homescreen, without access from edge
10:03:59 <jpetrell> ApBBB: ah sorry now got it :) yeah it is quite flaky currently
10:04:08 <ApBBB> jpetrell: change between video and picture taking
10:04:20 <abranson> vakkov_: it takes some figuring out to group the params and figure out what they're supposed to do. i've got most of them sorted I think. some features can be implemented as quirks in gst-droid, and maybe enabled by default. things that need exposing as properties and mapping onto qtmultimedia properties or even creating new ones, then adding them to the UI gets progressively more complex and time consuming though,
10:04:22 <vakkov_> abranson: who should we try to make a case to .. about opening the app? Is there an updated cameraplus somewhere?
10:04:25 <jpetrell> ApBBB: ISO options are not that commonly used
10:04:32 <nh1402> speaking of words beginning with 'vi' the vivo apex phone was announced recently to be released in China, that would be very nice with Sailfish ;)
10:04:37 <phlixi_o> i want to just quickly close apps, not make a game out of it, fist go home, then longpress, then tap X
10:05:11 <locusf> blasted ..
10:05:28 <Jaymzz> 5 min left on general discussion. It has gone quiet already :P
10:05:39 <jpetrell> ApBBB: I don't know the email issues in detail, but I also don't remember that such bug would have been tackled recently either
10:05:43 <abranson> vakkov_: no, i haven't doen anything with cameraplus yet. i've had a look through it though - it seems to have a custom qt wrapping for a lot of things, different to the qtmm method used by the jolla camera app.
10:05:52 <Mister_Magister> Oh i sleep over meeting again. Hello everybody
10:06:11 <ApBBB> jpetrell: yes but there are other stuff there. tapable settings? i think its the only sfos that has them like that instead of a pulley
10:06:16 <vakkov_> abranson: I get it; can we also create a small ..diagram about how the camera stack operates now? The last time I messed up with it we were just moving to gstreamer 1.0
10:06:29 <abranson> vakkov_: if we could make a good plan of what to do with it if it's OSS, then I can pass that on
10:06:37 <jpetrell> ApBBB: you can only use drag gestures up to a point, and there are a lot of different settings in camera UI
10:06:46 <ApBBB> jpetrell: damien looked into it but no idea what the outcome was. you can see his posts on the tjc thread
10:06:48 <abranson> vakkov_: yes good idea
10:07:18 <abranson> i've expanded the docs on the wiki a little to at least mention things that it uses. more docs are needed though
10:07:27 <jpetrell> ApBBB: ok cool
10:07:29 <ApBBB> jpetrell: i hear you but thats where good design come in. make some easily available and others in a pulley.
10:07:31 <chriadam_> dcaliste might have looked into the IMAP IDLE thing, Id on't remember
10:07:38 <abranson> vakkov_: it's a very complex component of sfos, and it'd be great to get more people into it
10:08:11 <vakkov_> abranson: I suppose we should first ... document openly how it operates and what features are missing; we can then see if it is worth pressuring the management to open it or just start some community effort for an open one
10:08:14 <jpetrell> many email issues are getting fixed, but the prioritisation is done by paying customers choosing what they see important
10:08:44 <r0kk3rz> abranson: vakkov_: certainly theres a lot of devices out in the community that have special camera features and the like
10:08:45 <ApBBB> jpetrell: TBH i am trully surprised not many seem to be affected by it.
10:08:48 <abranson> vakkov_: here: https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Core_Areas_and_APIs#Multimedia
10:09:07 <vakkov_> abranson: yep, i do remember :D it took ages to get to this stage - https://twitter.com/crazybulgarian/status/581365866064908288
10:09:11 <jpetrell> ApBBB: yeah sounds serious
10:09:47 <abranson> vakkov_: it's difficult because it's very android. and they change the interface with every release :s
10:10:25 <ApBBB> jpetrell: not serious but annoying to have to enable/disable airplane mode to fix it every time you move from 4g to wifi
10:10:47 <Jaymzz> alright, time is up for general discussion. I see there still are people talking so I can give it another 5 min but please wrap it up :)
10:11:17 <vakkov_> exactly, I was on Kitkat (4.4), he was on 5.0 and it was a mess; abranson, we would need something a bit more detailed - a diagram similar to this one, i suppose - http://processors.wiki.ti.com/images/a/a7/Camera_stack.jpg
10:11:41 <abranson> vakkov_: yeah, like that but with less retina burning
10:11:48 <abranson> what were they thinking with that red
10:12:58 <abranson> vakkov_: let's talk more offline. i'll see if I can get a new wiki page started for more camera/media detail
10:13:31 <vakkov_> abranson: thank you!
10:13:53 <Jaymzz> Moving on to the last one
10:13:55 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting’s time and date (5 min)
10:14:07 <Jaymzz> 2  weeks from now on March 22nd 2018 at 09:00 UTC ?
10:14:13 <Jaymzz> gimme +1
10:14:29 <ljo> +1
10:15:05 <ced117> +1
10:15:50 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday, March 22nd 2018 at 09:00 UTC
10:16:10 <Jaymzz> Thank you all for participating, it was very productive!
10:16:20 <Jaymzz> Meeting minutes will be sent out shortly
10:16:30 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting