08:00:49 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting
08:00:49 <merbot`> Meeting started Thu May 31 08:00:49 2018 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
08:00:49 <merbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:01:08 <Jaymzz> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:   https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2018-May/008391.html
08:01:10 <r0kk3rz> morn Jaymzz
08:01:31 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: morning :D
08:01:31 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
08:01:38 <Piggz_> \o jaymzz
08:01:39 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
08:01:46 <Jaymzz> Piggz_: o/
08:01:55 <lpr> #info lpr, community
08:01:57 <elfio> Hi there!
08:02:00 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Sailor @ Jolla
08:02:06 <Jaymzz> elfio: hello :)
08:02:12 <mattaustin> #info Matt Austin, community
08:02:22 <Piggz_> ha, i have no hash key ...fail
08:02:25 <elfio> #info elfio/chipiguay/pablo, community member and developer
08:02:36 <M4rtinK_phone_> #info Martin Kolman, community & modRana developer
08:02:44 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community hacker extraordinaire
08:02:46 <Piggz_> info, piggz community porter and developer
08:02:55 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, developer @ Jolla
08:03:10 <Jaymzz> Piggz_: Just copy it from here
08:03:16 <Jaymzz> otherwise it won't be registered
08:03:36 <mkosola> #info Matti Kosola, Sailor @ Jolla
08:03:44 <Piggz_> im on a jolla tablet with a bt keyboard...that isnt easy :)
08:03:46 <John888> #info John888, community
08:03:58 <Piggz_> dont worry about it
08:04:12 <nrde> #info nrde, community lurker, readonly
08:05:51 <Jaymzz> Not too many here today
08:05:58 <Jaymzz> 1st topic coming up
08:06:06 <Jaymzz> #topic patches for CVE-2014-4323 and CVE-2016-5696 still not in kernel-adaptation-sbj (15 min – asked by lpr)
08:06:15 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/163935/validate-input-arguments-from-user-space-in-kernel-msm-mdp-cve-2014-4323-remote/
08:06:25 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/142161/vulnerability-tcp-rfc-5961-of-linux-kernel-since-v32/
08:06:33 <Jaymzz> #info CVEs mentioned above seem to be forgotten/ignored for jolla1
08:06:41 <lpr> I think these patches should come to jolla1 too
08:06:55 <Jaymzz> Yes we will provide fix for above CVE's for Jolla 1 in 2.2.1 release
08:07:03 <Jaymzz> Actually let me make that # info
08:07:07 <Jaymzz> #info We will provide fix for above CVE's for Jolla 1 in 2.2.1 release
08:07:33 <Jaymzz> lpr I guess that answers the topic? :)
08:07:39 <mattaustin> :)
08:07:41 <lpr> ok, fine. just got confused by jovirkkus statement: @lpr: According to our tool the fix for CVE-2014-4323 is in Jolla1, JollaC, Jolla Tablet and Xperia.
08:08:03 <lpr> #Jaymzz : yes
08:08:05 <Jaymzz> Yes but we decided to make it for J1 as well :)
08:08:19 <Jaymzz> Jolla 1 deserves to be loved <3
08:08:20 <Jaymzz> :D
08:08:35 <lpr> yes, :)
08:08:43 <Jaymzz> moving on to your next topic
08:09:00 <Jaymzz> #topic upgrade to Linaro 4.8 2015.06 (MER#1899) (15 min – asked by lpr)
08:09:07 <Jaymzz> #link https://releases.linaro.org/archive/15.06/components/toolchain/gcc-linaro/4.8/
08:09:14 <Jaymzz> #link https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1899
08:09:15 <merbot`> Mer bug 1899 in gcc "upgrade to Linaro 4.8 2015.06" [Task,New]
08:09:28 <Jaymzz> #info upgrade to the latest and last Linaro 4.8 toolchain release (2014.04 -> 2015.06) , so package-build-process will not change but we'll see performance improvements and bug fixes
08:09:33 <lpr> I think we should use latest 4.8 version
08:09:51 <Jaymzz> #info We have been discussing to upgrade gcc to latest 4.9, with no ETA to be announced at the moment.
08:10:02 <Jaymzz> Why not a version higher? ;)
08:10:23 <Piggz_> why  not a few more higher ;)
08:10:26 <chriadam_> ooi what concrete work needs to be done to make such an upgrade happen?
08:10:38 <M4rtinK_phone_> yeah, GCC is really outdated at this point
08:10:44 <r0kk3rz> stop being so precious about sb2?
08:10:53 <lpr> because easiest think would be to upgrade 4.8 first
08:11:14 <Jaymzz> Piggz_: Good question, I think the amount of work involved plays a big roll here
08:11:21 <lpr> I am still on 4.8.5 on opensuse leap 42.3
08:11:22 <chriadam_> r0kk3rz: how is sb2 a stumbling block?  don't we just qemu whatever compiler binary?
08:11:33 * chriadam_ doesn't know much about the sdk
08:11:34 <lpr> and it's working
08:11:39 <M4rtinK_phone_> many projects (such as rinigus Valhalla package) have to resort to using custom new gcc builds
08:11:48 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: yeah but theres a performance hack that uses the platform gcc because its heaps faster
08:11:49 <Piggz_> jaymzz:but really, its just delaying the work, has to  happpen some time
08:12:07 <r0kk3rz> chriadam_: so if theres a mismatch, BadThingsTM happen
08:12:14 <chriadam_> mismatch between what and what?
08:12:27 <Piggz_> abis?
08:12:29 <r0kk3rz> the sb2 target and the host afaik
08:12:49 <r0kk3rz> thats the gist as i understand it anyway
08:13:02 <jwalck> (I'm here, but late and lurking. Hi.:)
08:13:27 <chriadam_> lbt: abranson: can either of you shed some light on this?  I'm curious :-)
08:13:37 * M4rtinK_phone_ mentions Fedora is already at GCC 8...
08:13:54 <r0kk3rz> M4rtinK_phone_: yes yes we know fedora is amazing
08:14:15 <M4rtinK_phone_> r0kk3rz: it is ;-)
08:14:15 <r0kk3rz> on gcc, ive been using this with no major issues https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:rinigus:toolbox/opt-gcc
08:14:25 <lpr> Jaymzz: no ETA is a bit too far in the future :) I saw gcc-packages to 4.8.3-1.9.5 recently
08:14:36 <r0kk3rz> its set to 4.8 ABI mode
08:14:52 <M4rtinK_phone_> r0kk3rz: yep, that's what I meant
08:14:58 <Piggz_> what version is that?
08:15:29 <Jaymzz> Piggz_: We have to allocate our time properly based on priorities and our paying customer's needs. We can't allocate too much time to this. 4.9 seems to be a version that should not be so hard to upgrade to.
08:16:09 <Jaymzz> lpr:  It should not be too far. I'm not giving an ETA yet as I don't want to risk it in case it gets delayed. But it should not be too far away based on what I've heard :)
08:16:35 <Piggz_> reasonable enough...nice to see 6.4 version with 4.8 compat available tho
08:16:52 <lpr> gcc4.9 would enable glibc2.25+ :)
08:16:54 <ApBBB> the thing is that paying customers also benefit from upgrades and stuff
08:17:30 <Piggz_> it just doesnt sound cool on paper
08:18:23 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: Indeed. but then again it is about priorities. If we are getting paid for X amount of hours to do some work, and we allocate it to these upgrades, we aren't acting very smart, business-wise
08:19:05 <M4rtinK_phone_> also unless we want to get pidgeonholed to using and outdated unsupported version of all libs/frameworks, we need to upgrade the GCC
08:19:29 <M4rtinK_phone_> upstreams are not going to support building with 4.8/4.9 forever
08:19:49 <lpr> latest gcc4.9 is https://releases.linaro.org/components/toolchain/binaries/4.9-2017.01/
08:20:03 <M4rtinK_phone_> some already don't, even just due to c++ 11 support
08:20:32 <r0kk3rz> c++11 is fine, its c++14 thats the trouble
08:20:44 <Piggz_> r0kkerz, after installing 6.4 in a target, what is needed in builds to use it?
08:21:16 <r0kk3rz> Piggz_: tell your toolchain to use it, and its best to static link libc
08:21:49 <r0kk3rz> Piggz_: so for a qt project, something like this - https://github.com/r0kk3rz/harbour-matrix/blob/master/harbour-matrix.pro#L17-L19
08:22:26 <Jaymzz> #link https://releases.linaro.org/components/toolchain/binaries/4.9-2017.01/
08:22:32 <Piggz_> good to know
08:22:34 <Jaymzz> #link https://github.com/r0kk3rz/harbour-matrix/blob/master/harbour-matrix.pro#L17-L19
08:22:59 * M4rtinK_phone_ things there should ideally be some general process for regularly updating core components so we don't end up in fire fighting mode so often & wit missmatched stone age/new versions of stuff
08:23:42 <r0kk3rz> M4rtinK_phone_: jolla doesnt want to regularly update core components, they've said that quite bluntly on many occasions
08:23:44 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes left on this topic, lpr do you think you have your answer already? :)
08:24:17 <M4rtinK_phone_> r0kk3rz: well, then thats a problem
08:24:21 <lpr> Jaymzz: yes, thanks
08:24:41 <r0kk3rz> having a relatively stable base to work from is a feature
08:25:01 <Jaymzz> Cool, I think we can move on to the general discussion and continue this discussion there. Will do so in a minute or so.
08:25:05 <M4rtinK_phone_> for the record, you don't upgrade core components in RHEL for the same reason
08:25:57 <M4rtinK_phone_> but you have major RHEL releases with updated core componens every few years, while there is a single outdated core release of Sailfish OS
08:27:01 <r0kk3rz> just because its not updated in a big monolithic jump doesnt mean it hasnt been updated
08:27:28 <Jaymzz> Alright I'm chnaging the topic here, you guys can continue the same discussion now :)
08:27:29 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (20 min)
08:27:49 <Jaymzz> it didn't change the topic :D
08:27:55 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (20 min)
08:28:03 <r0kk3rz> space?
08:28:14 <lpr> Jaymzz: oh, I forgot to say that for cve-2016-5696 patch it is important to use the right one for kernel3.4: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/commit/?h=linux-3.4.y&id=d91a2aa46cbc95c9854d4a444fc6acee444ca655
08:28:25 <ApBBB> is 2.2 readyish??
08:28:30 <Jaymzz> #topic General discussion (20 min)
08:28:47 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: Yeah, there were 2 of those buggers.
08:28:49 <r0kk3rz> ApBBB: has it been released to EA?
08:29:04 <Jaymzz> lpr: Okay, thanks :)
08:29:07 <ApBBB> no
08:29:16 <Jaymzz> #info for cve-2016-5696 patch it is important to use the right one for kernel3.4: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/commit/?h=linux-3.4.y&id=d91a2aa46cbc95c9854d4a444fc6acee444ca655
08:29:17 <r0kk3rz> then no, its not readyish then is it :P
08:29:24 <Jaymzz> #link https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/commit/?h=linux-3.4.y&id=d91a2aa46cbc95c9854d4a444fc6acee444ca655
08:29:35 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: Yes :)
08:30:02 <Jaymzz> it is closer than you might think, unless something blows up and in that case it's still not ready :D
08:30:22 <lpr> Jaymzz: cool :)
08:30:36 <r0kk3rz> Jaymzz: very diplomatic :D
08:30:46 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: :D
08:31:31 <ApBBB> Jaymzz: any progress on the systemd daemon thing? and on the keyboards?
08:31:47 <ApBBB> systemd socket
08:32:02 <Jaymzz> a sec
08:32:46 <Jaymzz> sledges is on holiday right now but regarding the KB, he asked me to say this: we have started looking into how to integrate presage text engine community's effort with jolla-keyboard, and currently analysing the licences involved
08:33:29 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: Does that answer your question so far? :)
08:33:55 <ApBBB> not much changed
08:34:31 <mattaustin> I've recently been developing some 'Progressive Web Apps' (PWAs). I was curious if support on Sailfish OS has been considered/discussed previously?
08:34:46 <Jaymzz> I have not been involved in the previous discussion followup so unfortunatey that is all I have until Simonas is back from holiday
08:35:00 <mattaustin> Android (Chrome and Firefox) has some quite nice integrations now. Offline support, notifications, launcher etc. A nice example is the Twitter mobile site which works very well.
08:35:11 <mattaustin> From my understanding iOS is gradually increasing support. Chrome desktop has some support too on Windows/Linux/MacOS.
08:35:13 <r0kk3rz> mattaustin: perhaps considered, but i dont think the browsers support all the things you need for PWAs
08:35:21 <mattaustin> Follow up question: Any chance of a browser engine update?
08:35:32 <r0kk3rz> iirc it is being updated
08:35:47 <Piggz_> to quantum?
08:35:53 <r0kk3rz> hah, i doubt that
08:35:56 <Piggz_> :D
08:36:01 <r0kk3rz> rainemak: care to comment?
08:36:07 <ApBBB> would be a dream come true to have latest ff on sfos natively
08:36:39 <mattaustin> :) Well mozilla just did release quantum firefox for enterprise with long term support!
08:37:01 <mattaustin> so if there is a release to target, the long-term-support versions could be a good choice.
08:37:41 <r0kk3rz> sure, but typically we've been an LTS version behind the latest
08:37:55 <mattaustin> understood!
08:38:27 <rainemak> let's see when next browser engine update happens, we're lacking a bit behind
08:39:13 <mattaustin> rainemak: Thanks
08:40:04 <ljo> Jaymzz: Thanks for the progress update on your internal check of the text prediction for keyboard. E.g.That the licenses are currently analysed but sledges is on vacation.
08:40:51 <Jaymzz> ljo No problem :)
08:42:09 <Piggz_> question for sailors, did PBAP get removed from the Bt stack at some point around 2.1?
08:42:18 <M4rtinK_phone_> thanks!
08:43:20 <M4rtinK_phone_> and systemd socket actiovation support (a requirement for OSM Scout Server to be in Jolla Store) - any progress on that ?
08:43:34 <M4rtinK_phone_> (or did I miss an answer ?)
08:45:34 <Jaymzz> Piggz_: it has not been removed, but due to us updating to Bluez5, it may not currently work properly
08:46:16 <Piggz_> jaymzz: well, i confirm it doesnt work in either of my cars ;)
08:47:01 <Jaymzz> oops :D
08:47:53 <Piggz_> which is really frustrating in 2018 ..... in 2010, it would still have been a noted absence :)
08:48:43 <Jaymzz> M4rtinK_phone_: There has been no progress on that front
08:48:50 <Piggz_> would be a handy workaround to push whole phonebook as a vcard ... but can only do it on a contact by contqct basis
08:49:02 <Jaymzz> And we are out of time guys
08:49:17 <M4rtinK_phone_> Jaymzz: OK
08:49:27 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting time & date (5 min)
08:49:32 <Jaymzz> gosh.... these spaces
08:49:36 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting time & date (5 min)
08:50:09 <Jaymzz> June 14th 2018 at 08:00 UTC. objections? :)
08:50:19 <ljo> +1
08:50:43 <Jaymzz> Alright
08:51:08 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be held on June 14th 2018 at 08:00 UTC
08:51:48 <Jaymzz> Thanks for your contributions guys. See you in  2 weeks!
08:51:54 <elfio> bye!
08:51:56 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting