10:00:09 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting
10:00:09 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 10:00:09 2018 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
10:00:09 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
10:00:18 <Jaymzz> #info   Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – July 26th 2018
10:00:27 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: http://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2018-July/008432.html
10:00:36 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
10:00:43 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min)
10:00:50 <Jaymzz> #info Please prefix your name/handle with # info
10:00:57 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori - Sailor @ Jolla
10:01:09 <TheGraphicEQ> :)
10:01:34 <eekkelund> #info eekkelund
10:01:38 <leszek> #info Leszek Lesner, community & dev
10:01:50 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones - random community dev
10:01:50 <TheGraphicEQ> #info Innocent bystander
10:02:09 <lpr> #info lpr  - user , community
10:02:20 <pasko_> #info pasko user
10:02:28 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson, sailing by
10:03:00 <Nokius__> #info Nokius user, community, just reading today
10:03:35 <ljo> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community
10:03:55 <rainemak> #info Raine Mäkeläinen, Sailor @ Jolla
10:04:02 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
10:04:57 <Markkyboy> #info Markkyboy ~ user, community
10:05:08 <Jaymzz> #info topic no.1 on TJC is being postponed to the next meeting when we have more manpower to take that topic.
10:05:18 <Jaymzz> #topic Android Implicit (foreign app) open seperate sailfish window (15 min – asked by Sugash )
10:05:26 <Jaymzz> #info when an android app transfers an implicit intent to an foreign app... The foreign app opens in the same sailfish window ( in android it opens a seperate window .. which is user friendly) .The implicit intent can be caught and the app be opened in a seperate sailfish window.
10:06:04 <Jaymzz> #info the OP of this topic has requested us to move on if he was not available at the meeting. We will however attempt to answer it and move on instead so we can have it in the logs.
10:06:23 <Jaymzz> #info This is caused by either a missing feature or a bug (depending on the situation). Both can be fixed and we are looking to do this in an aliendalvik upgrade.
10:07:05 <Jaymzz> I will wait a couple of minutes, if there weren't any important and related comments to this topic, I'll move on to the next one.
10:07:19 <ApBBB> even the user is not around :/
10:07:26 <ApBBB> as it seems at least
10:07:40 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: yes, that is why I'm itching to move on as per the user's request
10:07:45 <flypig> Maybe a stupid question, but what are the pros/cons of opening a new window, or using the same one?
10:08:29 <abranson> this is a known bug about the way alien recognizes and separates android apps
10:08:42 <Jaymzz> Well I guess we can point to what the requester of the topic has said about it being more user friendly :)
10:09:08 <flypig> Yeah, I just wonder what that means in practice. It's an idle question, so no need to dwell on it.
10:09:08 <leszek> I am not even sure that can be fixed as even android itself confuses stuff
10:09:09 <abranson> it's been investigated before, and it's a really tough fix. we're hoping to resolve it in the android update
10:10:27 <Jaymzz> alright I suppose there are no more comments here, so we'll move on
10:10:34 <abranson> shall I info that?
10:11:02 <Jaymzz> abranson: It's already info:ed up there that we will try to fix it with the android upgrade :) so it's cool
10:11:06 <Markkyboy> Sad that we still have to have some reliance on Android :(
10:11:06 <abranson> ok
10:11:15 <Jaymzz> #topic how to build a » kernel-adaptation-sbj-3.4.108.xxx « myself (20 min – asked by lpr )
10:11:23 <Jaymzz> #info as there are a lot of non-security related kernel patches for kernel 3.4 and 3.2, I would like to compile a kernel with some patches. So I would like to know how to deal with things needed like droid-tools-devel, mer-kernel-checks and other topics like ION and kernel-perf...
10:13:52 <lpr> as 3.2 is EOL now, maybe it's the right time to pick some patches...
10:16:04 <abranson> lpr: we asked about this, and the problem is that the internal mechanism we use to build it depends on a lot of things that can't be shared.
10:16:49 <Jaymzz> Sugash: Hi, you are just a bit late. We went past your topic, but answered it anyway. Take a loot at the logs after the meeting to find your answer.
10:17:08 <lpr> abranson: maybe sharing not public?
10:17:24 <Sugash> Jaymzz: yeah sorry.. thanks
10:17:29 <abranson> the kernel sources are in the source drop
10:17:32 <Jaymzz> Sugash: no worries
10:17:56 <abranson> the problem is packaging it into the boot image afterwards
10:18:16 <abranson> `PLATFORM_SDK $ split_bootimg` should show the params for `mkbootimg` that could be recompressed back into boot.img but with a recompiled kernel blob. One needs to be mindful of any kernel modules that need recompiling and redeployed on rootfs too.
10:18:32 <abranson> There are also tools like abootimg, unmkbootimg which could help, it is possible to compile the kernel from the defconfig and build a new boot.img from that + ramdisk and such from an existing boot.img.
10:19:02 <abranson> but as no-one's tried this method before, it'll likely involve a lot of tinkering to get right
10:19:29 <lpr> abranson: puh, I see...
10:19:58 <Jaymzz> #info PLATFORM_SDK $ split_bootimg` should show the params for `mkbootimg` that could be recompressed back into boot.img but with a recompiled kernel blob. One needs to be mindful of any kernel modules that need recompiling and redeployed on rootfs too.
10:20:02 <abranson> for these devices, the kernel usually gets built as part of the whole android device tree.
10:20:04 <Jaymzz> #info There are also tools like abootimg, unmkbootimg which could help, it is possible to compile the kernel from the defconfig and build a new boot.img from that + ramdisk and such from an existing boot.img.
10:20:57 <lpr> abranson: maybe having a git repo like with sailfishX kernel... ?
10:22:43 <abranson> lpr: exactly the same sort of thing. the difference is sailfish x is based on the sony open devices aosp port, while most commercial devices aren't based on aosp at all, so can't just be shoved on github.
10:23:31 <leszek> oh I would like a company just have the guts and do it
10:23:44 <leszek> the same way those companies keep shitting on the GPL
10:23:51 <flypig> Aren't the commercial devices still using GPL code?
10:24:14 <lpr> abranson: hm, maybe without closed components...
10:24:20 <abranson> yeah, and that's published in the source drop.
10:25:07 <lpr> abranson: yes it's published, but I can't make commits to it :)
10:25:08 <abranson> not just about closed components - in addition to things that end up as binaries on your device, there are all the build bits too.
10:25:30 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes left for this topic, but since we cut the last topic short I can give this one extra time if needed.
10:26:00 <abranson> if you have fixes, we can test them and include them. but of course without being able to test those fixes first, it gets a lot harder...
10:26:07 <lpr> Jaymzz: would be great
10:26:18 <abranson> but backports from elsewhere etc might be appropriate as-is?
10:26:46 <lpr> abranson: yes, more likely
10:27:27 <urjaman> yeah source code (as per GPL) includes scripts used to control compilation and installation ...
10:27:45 <LarstiQ> urjaman: are you thinking of gplv3?
10:27:47 <Jaymzz> lpr do you think you'd need extra time? 3 minutes left
10:27:50 <lpr> abranson: but I think a better channel of communication is needed (not tjc)
10:27:51 <urjaman> no, GPLv2
10:28:11 <urjaman> " For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable."
10:28:15 <lpr> Jaymzz: +5 min?
10:28:22 <Jaymzz> lpr totally fine.
10:29:35 <sledges> lpr: so why not just try and compile sbj kernel the-linux-way and remake via split_bootimg/mkbootimg? that could be a starting point, and if you run into problems, shout out during the next meeting
10:30:23 <abranson> urjaman: what we're saying is there's enough in the source drop to do all that, we've just not done it that way and can't really advise you on how it works
10:31:02 <urjaman> i'm just saying that imo that means that the source code drops need to actually be compileable without writing more scripts :P
10:31:08 <lpr> sledges: hm, okay. maybe with a bit more hints how to start. That would be great
10:31:32 <abranson> urjaman: yeah it should be, but in a droid build tree there are lots of other bits that aren't gpl, and they do it differently
10:32:45 <abranson> i don't know the fine details of the relationship between the two, but you can bet that whoever designed it had gpl compliance in mind when they did it.
10:32:48 <sledges> lpr: build kernel sources the linux-way https://source.android.com/setup/build/building-kernels#building, install Sailfish OS Platform SDK to get split_bootimg
10:33:16 <Jaymzz> #link https://source.android.com/setup/build/building-kernels#building
10:33:18 <abranson> that's true - android docs is probably the best place to look
10:33:39 <lpr> sledges: thx
10:34:13 <sledges> lpr: installing android-tools will have that split_bootimg
10:34:36 <Jaymzz> lpr it's time :) let me know if you need extra. We have 5 more minutes capacity
10:34:50 <lpr> okay
10:35:05 <sledges> lpr: that command will give all output how to reassemble boot.img with mkbootimg (which is provided by another package called droid-tools)
10:35:44 <sledges> then fastboot boot boot.img , like with any other android device, but be prepared for dragons
10:35:52 <abranson> a jolla1 community kernel would be quite cool :D
10:36:26 <sledges> lpr: also join #sailfishos-porters : a bunch of knowledgeable people there
10:36:35 <lpr> abranson: and easy to take patches from
10:37:07 <abranson> lpr: yes that's true.
10:37:09 * sledges now needs to drive off after parking in a lay-by :D o/
10:37:18 <lpr> sledges: okay, cool
10:37:39 <abranson> thanks, guy-who-actually-knows-what-he's-talking-about!
10:38:12 <Jaymzz> lpr move on? :)
10:38:28 <lpr> Jaymzz: yes :)
10:38:29 <Jaymzz> #info extra 10 minutes spent on this topic
10:38:36 <Jaymzz> #topic general discussion (15 min)
10:38:45 <Jaymzz> discuss on :)
10:39:06 <ApBBB> dcaliste: or chriadam . any update on this > https://together.jolla.com/question/97109/email-imap-idle-doesnt-work-with-both-connections-active/
10:39:19 <Sugash> any update  on sailfish x in India ?
10:39:30 <ApBBB> also any updates on socket activation and keyboards>
10:39:31 <ApBBB> ?
10:39:59 <Jaymzz> Sugash: not yet. summer holidays now, slow progress
10:40:13 <dcaliste> ApBBB, sorry, didn't look at it since a long time. I'm busy on GPG (S/MIME also) signature / encryption for email.
10:40:20 <flypig> Is Harbour still reviewing apps over the summer?
10:41:00 <abranson> flypig: think so, but probably slower than usual.
10:41:02 <ApBBB> dcaliste: its something jolla must fix :?
10:41:07 <Jaymzz> flypig: yes, but at a slower pace as many are on vacation at the same time and duties are divided between sailors. So if your app is late, please accept our apology and I'm sure you understand :)
10:41:25 <abranson> sounds like finland has melted though, so that's going to affect things
10:41:33 <flypig> abranson, jaymzz, great, thank you. I totally understand, but just wanted to check.
10:41:34 <Sugash> Jaymzz: xperia x and xa2 both the devices  are not available  for purchase in India ... please check over
10:41:56 <dcaliste> ApBBB, for the connection issue, no. It's lying I guess in the OSS parts, but not sure since not clearly identified (and thus not corrected).
10:42:39 <Jaymzz> Sugash: thanks for the heads up. We are however aware of the situation. And that is also one slowing factor. Let's see how things move forward after the summer.
10:42:41 <ApBBB> dcaliste: i didn't mean it in a closed vs open way.
10:42:55 <Markkyboy> melting here in Costa Blanca!
10:42:59 <ApBBB> its something that affects one of the most importand areas of a smartphone
10:43:56 <flypig> We lost our chair?
10:44:30 <ApBBB> probably has connection issues
10:44:36 <abranson> ah he said he was having trouble
10:44:43 <abranson> unreliable connection
10:45:06 <Jaymzz> sorry about that
10:45:11 <ApBBB> no worries
10:45:27 <Jaymzz> I am not at home today so my internet connection is horrible. is there something I have missed?
10:45:39 <dcaliste> ApBBB, yes, I understand. I cannot speak for Jolla people if they will look at it or not. From my side, I'm afraid I won't have time before autumn is coming. It's easy to reproduce but with lengthy conditions, which makes the investigation eating a lot of time.
10:45:47 <abranson> Jaymzz: nothing apart from people wondering where you'd gone :)
10:45:52 <flypig> Jaymzz, nothing missed
10:46:04 <Jaymzz> ah, thanks :) it may happen again, just FYI.
10:46:07 <ApBBB> dcaliste: no need to appologize
10:46:17 <ApBBB> Jaymzz: is chris adams on vacation?
10:46:31 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: let me check
10:46:46 <flypig> In case it's of interest, I see Sailfish gets a mention in Linux Format magazine this month (in a review of the Gemini PDA). They say nice things :)
10:47:12 <abranson> oh cool. i got a gemini. it's awesome.
10:47:24 <flypig> abranson, I'm deeply envious!
10:47:41 <dcaliste> ApBBB, will comment anyway if I find something.
10:47:44 * ApBBB mumbles something about the need of a compact device
10:47:44 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: I don't think so, but at least he's not available at this moment. It's about 9PM where he lives so I undrstand if he's not at the office
10:47:56 <ApBBB> no prob.
10:48:11 <ApBBB> the email bug is annoying and reallly long standing
10:48:24 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: feel free to email him about the email bug. emailception :)
10:49:29 <Jaymzz> I assume there are no more discussions, so we shall move on shortly
10:49:36 <regggie> xz2 compact will be added to open devices (jerpelea said it needs bootloader update), hopefully Jolla might consider it after xa2 support is done
10:50:11 <Jaymzz> regggie: no promises, but I can say that if everything goes fine, that is a possibility
10:50:13 <Sugash> A suggestion  : can the dialer and cintact appa be merged ? @Jaymzz ..  2 seperate apps is liitle bit not user friendly
10:50:38 <Sugash> *contact apo
10:50:58 <Jaymzz> Sugash: I'm not the guy to talk to for that, you may wany to create a new topic for the next meeting :)
10:51:14 <ApBBB> Jaymzz: pleeeeeeeeeeeasssseeeeeeeeeeeeee do xz2c. my j1 needs to be upgraded.
10:51:20 <Sugash> Jaymzz: Yeah .. thanks
10:51:49 <Jaymzz> ApBBB: If I were to decide, we would have done the X compact as well! So let's see how things go. Fingers crossed :)
10:51:59 <Jaymzz> Sugash: no problem
10:52:17 <Jaymzz> alright people time is up
10:52:32 <Jaymzz> moving on
10:52:34 <Jaymzz> #topic next meeting time and date (5 min)
10:52:56 <abranson> Sugash: I don't think merging those would be good - not all sailfish devices support telephony
10:53:24 <Jaymzz> 9th of August, same time (10:00 UTC). we will be back at 08:00 UTC from the meeting after that one.
10:53:34 <Jaymzz> votes?
10:54:00 <Sugash> abranson: we can have a discussion  on  next  meeting :)
10:54:10 <Sugash> +1
10:54:16 <abranson> ok
10:54:17 <abranson> +!
10:54:27 <flypig> +1
10:54:51 <Jaymzz> alrighty
10:55:00 <Sugash> when will sailors will be back ?
10:55:12 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday, 9th of August at 10:00 UTC
10:55:21 <Jaymzz> Sugash: different sailors different times really
10:55:39 <Sugash> Jaymzz: oh .. thnks
10:55:56 <Jaymzz> anyhow, thanks everyone for your contributions today, we'll talk in 2 weeks again! cheers :)
10:56:05 <Jaymzz> meeting minutes will be sent to you shortly
10:56:08 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting