08:00:20 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting
08:00:20 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 13 08:00:20 2018 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
08:00:20 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:29 <Jaymzz> #info Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – September 13th 2018
08:00:51 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: http://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2018-September/008460.html
08:01:01 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
08:01:18 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min)
08:01:30 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori – Sailor @ Jolla
08:01:32 <Mister_Magister> #info Mister_Magister mad porter
08:01:37 <leszek> #info Leszek Lesner, Dev + Community
08:01:52 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva – Privateer @ Jolla
08:02:01 <leszek> merbot is broken wants the next meeting to be in the past :P
08:02:01 <merbot> leszek: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
08:02:10 <spiiroin> #info Simo Piiroinen - Sailor @ Jolla
08:02:15 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community
08:02:21 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community dev
08:02:29 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson - sailor
08:02:35 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm - person @ community
08:02:58 <DylanVanAssche> #info Dylan Van Assche - app developer
08:05:02 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
08:06:05 <Jaymzz> #Topic Community contributions to non open-source components (15 min – asked by flypig)
08:06:31 <Jaymzz> #info In the previous meeting we discussed this Topic without cocrete results. Here is one of the related questions. https://together.jolla.com/question/177397/xperia-x-roaming-does-not-show-local-operator-and-does-not-show-connection/
08:06:39 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/177397/xperia-x-roaming-does-not-show-local-operator-and-does-not-show-connection/
08:06:51 <Jaymzz> oops
08:06:53 <Jaymzz> #undo
08:06:53 <merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x3870f10>
08:07:09 <Jaymzz> #info In the previous meeting we discussed the possibility of Jolla providing a process for community members to make changes (e.g. bug fixes) to the closed-source portions of the Sailfish OS code, potentially under NDA. This topic is to provide the promised follow-up from sledges (see minutes, item 5 "we'll have an update during next meeting, i'll raise this during our iteration planning that will happen to happen in between thes
08:07:09 <Jaymzz> e meetings").
08:07:21 <Mister_Magister> oh yes please
08:07:31 <Jaymzz> Sorry about that :D both items were from previous meetings, my eyes got confused
08:09:13 <sledges> #info Jolla has got the enablers in place and tested, and will proceed with the plan as soon as concrete tasks are identified.
08:09:23 <sledges> #info Capability to bring in contributors is limited, but we can do it. This m
08:09:26 <sledges> eans we'll need to select the best-suitable candidates
08:09:41 <sledges> #info ...means we'll need to select the best-suitable candidates
08:10:35 <Jaymzz> flypig: any comments? :)
08:10:37 <flypig> This is good news. Can you elaborate a little more on what's planned?
08:11:12 <flypig> And also, thank you for making the enquiries, sledges.
08:11:31 <sledges> some criteria:
08:11:32 <sledges> 1) so long as we are satisfied with the intentions+skills+available time from the specific community member
08:11:51 <sledges> 2) so long as we have some developer internally who can mentor the activity (i.e. review pull requests, show prototypes to our design team, etc)
08:12:00 <sledges> 3) so long as we have available capacity to spend on mentoring the activity -- then it is relatively simple to get the activity started
08:12:34 <sledges> there are more things to iron out, and we'll keep you updated
08:12:52 <flypig> Is your intention to 'advertise' projects on TJC, say?
08:13:58 <sledges> that was the initial thought of mine, but hasn't been confirmed nor denied yet :)
08:14:04 <sledges> #info Note that community members can help the development effort even without NDA, and even if you're not a developer
08:14:16 <sledges> #info e.g. help test ongoing work from other community members
08:14:26 <sledges> #link https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:dcaliste/calligra-bundle
08:14:29 <sledges> #info built from
08:14:36 <sledges> #link https://git.merproject.org/dcaliste/calligra-bundle
08:14:46 <dcaliste> Last meeting, there was some questions raised about the motivation for signing such NDAs wrt. open source. Having done so, I would argue that it can be benefical also for open source developments.
08:15:00 <sledges> credits for the most of the thoughts above go to chriadam \o/
08:15:19 <dcaliste> Indeed, having done so, will make all the OOS devel to have GPG signature available in the native email client.
08:15:32 <sledges> dcaliste: such contributions are intended to pave way for easier opensourcing
08:15:51 <dcaliste> With as less non OSS as possible, most of the job being done in QMF or nemo-qml-plugin-email.
08:16:23 <sledges> #info ^^ having done so, will make all the OOS devel to have GPG signature available in the native email client
08:18:11 <Jaymzz> Anything further?
08:18:25 <flypig> That's all good for me. Thanks for your efforts in pursuing this.
08:18:45 <Jaymzz> Amazing. Thanks all - moving on now
08:18:55 <sledges> thank you for pushing, we'll start small but hope for more OSS as a result of this!
08:19:03 <Jaymzz> #topic general problems with roaming on Sailfish OS (update) (10 min – asked by Raymaen )
08:19:16 <Jaymzz> #info In the previous meeting we discussed this Topic without cocrete results. Here is one of the related questions. https://together.jolla.com/question/177397/xperia-x-roaming-does-not-show-local-operator-and-does-not-show-connection/
08:19:23 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/177397/xperia-x-roaming-does-not-show-local-operator-and-does-not-show-connection/
08:19:51 <sledges> I've spoken to monich
08:19:54 <sledges> #info Our modem sailor said that it is an involvingly complex task with Android's RIL daemon. He has looked in numerous times, but hasn't found a magic trick to make RIL behave.
08:20:21 <sledges> #info (It's yet to be confirmed whether an Android BSP update to 8 would fix the issue or not, but community with enough time/roaming and a xperia x to spare could flash AOSP and confirm)
08:20:33 <Jaymzz> I don't however see Raymaen on the list here. Maybe it's another nick or he's not available today. Anyhow we have the answers from Sledges :)
08:20:54 <sledges> also anyone with RILd knowledge is more then welcome to help slava out time-wise
08:21:16 <sledges> minus the typos :P
08:21:25 <Jaymzz> :D
08:22:10 <Jaymzz> Any comments from anyone else? since the author of the topic isn't here we can move on if everyone is OK with this now
08:22:32 <sledges> before anyone asks:
08:22:53 <sledges> we're focusing the android 8 effort on xa2 first, and will consider xperia x thereafter only
08:23:13 <Jaymzz> I think that deserves an # info
08:23:21 <Jaymzz> #info we're focusing the android 8 effort on xa2 first, and will consider xperia x thereafter only
08:24:03 <piggz> #info piggz (late) mido porter and app dev
08:24:16 <Jaymzz> I think there are no objections or comments here so we shall move on to general discussions and save some time :)
08:24:36 <Jaymzz> #topic general discussion (15 min)
08:25:00 <Jaymzz> We can give an extra 5 min to this one if needed based on what is being discussed and how hot the discussion is :)
08:25:17 <Mister_Magister> lol this meeting is lightning fast
08:25:31 <Coolgeek> when we purchased SFOSX, it is said that there will be plan for after a year. do you have some news on that ?
08:25:32 <Mister_Magister> 3 topics already passed
08:25:38 <leszek> nothing much in terms of topics
08:26:41 <Mister_Magister> why sfos has to be so closed
08:26:52 <Jaymzz> Coolgeek: Nothing to publish yet, but we should address that in our next Sailfish X blog update. We are discussing different models to move forwad with and we will have to see how feasible each are first before commenting publicly.
08:27:00 <leszek> How are the images for XA2 and or Gemini PDA coming along? I read somewhere that "beta" images for the Gemini should arrive in September. Is it still on schedule or can we say it takes at least another months or even longer for it to arrive?
08:27:29 <leszek> -s
08:28:40 <Mister_Magister> i have couple of stuff to do on closed source components but cant because they are closed :/
08:28:43 <piggz> ah, dcaliste has left . could have discusse kf5 packaging
08:28:47 <Jaymzz> leszek: I can tell that the XA2 stuff are going quite well. There will be an update post about it hopefully during this month (don't quote me on it yet, but we're trying to get it out this month) but about the Gemini PDA I can't comment as I'm not involved with it at the moment so if any other sailor knows better please go ahead
08:29:38 <flypig> Can any sailors/community give a verdict on how good the Gemini is as a device with SFOS?
08:30:07 <leszek> Jaymzz: there should be a blogpost about it if there was really something written before that said "September"
08:30:42 <Jaymzz> abranson: maybe you can answer flypig's question since you have one in hand? :)
08:31:19 <leszek> flypig: I am only using it as mobile pda/notebook with LTE internet connection. Not as smartphone. It works quite fine but still has some bugs like audio routing being broken via headphone jack. It plays both speakers and headphone jack and this jack is full of distortions
08:31:31 <Jaymzz> leszek: That's my point too :) I'm just being careful here with "promises".
08:31:42 <leszek> also had to install patches for the inverse landscape mode
08:32:12 <flypig> leszek, thanks. Those are things which will (hopefully) get ironed out though, yes? Not hardware problems?
08:32:14 <Raymaen> sorry I'm late...
08:32:32 <Jaymzz> Raymaen: No worries, you have answers to your topic up there!
08:32:40 <leszek> flypig: I am not sure about the headphone jack. Need to test it with android and see if it also distorts there
08:32:44 <Jaymzz> If you can't read them now, they will be in the log
08:32:50 <Raymaen> ok nice then I'll check them later
08:33:02 <Jaymzz> Raymaen: Cheers :)
08:33:08 <Raymaen> :-)
08:33:14 <abranson> leszek: i remember hearing some complaints about the headphone jack in android. someone bought a usb audio dongle because of it.
08:33:14 <flypig> leszek, but you enjoy using it as a pda?
08:33:20 <leszek> flypig: most annoying bug is a mediatek wifi suspend bug. It never goes to suspend which causes a battery drainage when the screen is turned off as it disconnects and connects again and again to the wifi network
08:33:22 <abranson> but that doesn't mean it's not fixable
08:33:22 <sledges> Raymaen: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2018/mer-meeting.2018-09-13-08.00.log.txt
08:33:39 <leszek> flypig: yeah I enjoy using it as pda
08:33:58 <leszek> abranson: audio dongle does not work on SailfishOS though as it does not route any audio to it
08:33:59 <abranson> flypig: it's a lovely device. not really as a phone, but a great micro-laptop
08:34:29 <piggz> as good as tbj + keyboard ?
08:34:34 <abranson> leszek: that should be possible though, sailfish does support otg audio
08:34:47 <leszek> piggz: even a bit better as the virtual keyboard does not get in the way :)
08:35:00 <abranson> piggz: you can just about walk and type, so more portable than tbj+kbd
08:35:02 <M4rtinK> I'm thinking some people might still have issues with the new antispam measures on FreeNode
08:35:03 <leszek> abranson: yeah needs some fiddling with pulseaudio stuff
08:35:07 <abranson> that's it
08:35:14 <piggz> leszek: the vk in tbj hides when i connect BT keyboard no problem ... i use it all the time
08:35:24 <M4rtinK> I suggest turning that off for the meetings if possible
08:35:37 <flypig> flypig, it's a very tempting device, and I'm just a little envious :)
08:35:38 <Mister_Magister> whats tbj
08:35:46 <leszek> piggz: never worked for me vk always shows here no matter if bt keyboard connected or not
08:35:48 * M4rtinK had to register just now or else messages were rejected
08:35:49 <piggz> Mister_Magister: jolla tablet
08:36:03 <Jaymzz> M4rtinK: been there :D
08:36:13 * Mister_Magister cant understand this how tbj is short of jolla tablet
08:36:14 <piggz> leszek: odd ... i use it for otg dev nearly every day
08:36:15 <M4rtinK> could by also why there were not many replies
08:36:31 <abranson> M4rtinK: freenode had to do that to stop the spam afaik
08:36:57 <piggz> Mister_Magister: its the code name
08:37:05 <sledges> tablet by jolla
08:37:07 <abranson> Mister_Magister: Tablet By Jolla i think?
08:37:58 <Mister_Magister> kk
08:38:10 <Mister_Magister> so what about dual back camera and notch support xD
08:38:19 <Thaodan> about the XA/any other qualcom soc, has anyone looked into the bluez patches for rome?
08:38:26 * Mister_Magister just kidding sadly…
08:38:42 <Mister_Magister> Thaodan: oh boi
08:39:16 <Thaodan> hm?
08:39:18 <abranson> Mister_Magister: haven't seen a dual camera yet. how does it work? does it get presented as one virtual camera with extra settings?
08:39:35 <Mister_Magister> no idea yet need to port lineage first :P
08:40:00 <abranson> well i'd be interested to know when you do :D
08:40:09 <Mister_Magister> sure :P
08:40:21 <leszek> what I saw with dual cameras is basically that the system (android in that case) detects only one camera module (the main module) and the secondary is used only and usable only with the proprietary camera app provided by the manufacturer
08:40:34 <Mister_Magister> in zenfone 5z second camera is highly bloated to make it working only in stock camera app so we will see if i even bring it up
08:40:35 <abranson> that wouldn't be a surprise :/
08:41:00 <leszek> so basically open camera only uses the main camera on those smartphones
08:41:08 <Jaymzz> giving 5 extra minutes to this general duscission. Please wrap up :)
08:41:32 <Mister_Magister> Jaymzz: we are just having nice small OT talk so thats nothing important
08:42:16 <Jaymzz> Cool :) moving on in a couple of minutes
08:42:23 <Mister_Magister> dewit
08:42:43 <Mister_Magister> or somebody want to talk bout notch support? XD
08:42:55 <Jaymzz> okay moving on now XD
08:43:10 <Mister_Magister> yee
08:43:12 <abranson> notch should be possible with patches, no?
08:43:20 <abranson> there's only the time that sits in the middle there
08:43:24 <leszek> should be something on the todo for SFOS3 I hope
08:43:25 <Mister_Magister> what about apps that dont use silica
08:43:33 <leszek> abranson: exactly
08:43:45 <Mister_Magister> leszek: it won't cause its not profitable
08:43:54 <leszek> its a one liner
08:43:56 <abranson> i don't think it'll get done in sfos until there's an official device with one
08:43:59 <Jaymzz> Mister_Magister: never say never
08:44:01 <flypig> Re notch: there's no status bar in apps though.
08:44:13 <abranson> it's also a bit of a gimmick isn't it :P
08:44:17 <Mister_Magister> abranson: i think so too
08:44:21 <leszek> of course
08:44:24 <Jaymzz> abranson: it's a horrible thing :D
08:44:28 <Mister_Magister> i would move status icons to notch area and add padding
08:44:35 <Mister_Magister> and that would be plenty enough
08:44:37 <Mister_Magister> but noooo
08:44:39 <leszek> though for apps that don't need the notch. Hiding it by scaling full screen apps might be interesting
08:45:01 <leszek> android must have some info for that somewhere so lipstick could use it to scale apps correctly underneath the notch
08:45:23 <sledges> lbt: could #sailfishos-porters have 2.2.1 target in OBS (and latest set to it) please? :)
08:45:23 <Mister_Magister> ya mean notch pixel size?
08:45:31 <Mister_Magister> obs isnt tead?
08:45:33 <piggz> flypig: btw, how was your BLE work going
08:45:34 <Mister_Magister> dead*
08:45:36 <piggz> sledges: thx!
08:45:38 <leszek> Mister_Magister: yep
08:45:56 <Jaymzz> Alright time's up for this one guys, let's talk about notches later
08:45:57 <Mister_Magister> yee sledges lbt i need make 6 updates so please hurry :)
08:46:03 <Jaymzz> #topic next meeting time & date (5 min)
08:46:09 <flypig> piggz, good question, but it's been on hold for a bit, for reasons outside of my control. So no good progress I'm afraid.
08:46:13 <Mister_Magister> whatever +1
08:46:21 <Mister_Magister> lol
08:46:25 <Mister_Magister> that was unexpected
08:47:54 <Raymaen> WB Jaymzz :-D
08:48:01 <Jaymzz> Sorry guys, got disconnected... :(
08:48:06 <sledges> Jaymzz: we have a few meeting clashes internally in jolla at this time
08:48:26 <Jaymzz> sledges: Yes, alright, shall we move this to Fridays?
08:48:29 <sledges> +1
08:49:02 <sledges> TGI Fridays \o/ (and Becky would join too)
08:49:19 <Jaymzz> alright then, 28th of September at 08:00 UTC ? anyone?
08:49:22 <Mister_Magister> whatever +1
08:49:41 <flypig> Sure +1
08:49:44 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be held on Friday, 28th of Sept 2018 at 08:00 UTC
08:50:10 <Jaymzz> Thanks guys for this meeting. I'll see you all here in about 2 weeks!
08:50:15 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting