08:00:10 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 28th September 2018
08:00:10 <merbot> Meeting started Fri Sep 28 08:00:10 2018 UTC.  The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
08:00:10 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:10 <Mister_Magister> \o
08:00:14 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2018-September/008464.html
08:00:17 <sledges> I am the meeting’s chairperson today, while James is under the weather but still made the blog post out kudos!! ..and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be-have ;)
08:00:26 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
08:00:35 <Mister_Magister> #info Mister_Magister, community, mad porter
08:00:47 * Mister_Magister is first nice
08:00:51 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community hacker of things
08:01:18 <sledges> hIoT
08:01:27 <lbt> #info David Greaves, Sailor and Mer guy
08:01:41 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson, jolla developer
08:01:51 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva sledge and chair
08:02:02 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, dev in the community
08:02:12 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc developer
08:02:13 <pasko_> #info pasko Sailor
08:02:27 <M4rtinK_phone_> #info Martin Kolman, modRana developer and community member
08:03:16 <spiiroin> #info Simo Piiroinen - Sailor @ Jolla
08:05:25 <sledges> #topic What is beyond eglibc's End-of-life? (10 min – asked by tortoisedoc)
08:05:35 <sledges> #info As we all know, eglibc has been discontinued. What are the next steps to overcome eglibc? Backporting FTW? Switch to glibc?
08:06:52 <sledges> guess this is self-explanatory, so here goes the answer from Jolla:
08:06:54 <sledges> #info So far we have been following Ubuntu Trusty security updates for the eglibc (link below), and we're planning to go back to glibc as proposed by eglibc devel, at the latest by Trusty's end-of-long-term-support in April 2019. Thank you for the heads up!
08:06:58 <sledges> #link https://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/eglibc-source
08:07:02 <sledges> #info Patches are always welcome (e.g. a nice glibc within a submodule) to:
08:07:05 <sledges> #link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/glibc
08:08:18 <tortoisedoc> sledges : until April 2019 we will see only security updates backported?
08:09:03 <tortoisedoc> or also features needed to run sw built against more recent versions of glibc?
08:09:04 <Mister_Magister> sledges: would that actually mean update to glibc and gcc?
08:09:28 <Mister_Magister> or did i get something wrong
08:11:13 * Mister_Magister is confused
08:11:16 <sledges> tortoisedoc: security updates for sure, no plans for backport/backwards compatibility features. I'd say a new glibc will get rid of such necessity altogether
08:11:33 <sledges> Mister_Magister: topic is about glibc
08:11:50 <tortoisedoc> sledges : thanks, that clarifies
08:12:12 <Mister_Magister> sledges: so glibc will be updated?
08:12:37 <sledges> as per our answer above
08:13:59 <Mister_Magister> noice
08:14:01 <sledges> if community chips in with help, that will happen sooner than April '19 :)
08:14:44 <r0kk3rz> what can community do to help? put it on OBS and make sure stuff builds?
08:15:00 <Mister_Magister> testing?
08:15:06 <sledges> certainly so
08:15:19 <sledges> time's up folks:)
08:15:36 <sledges> #topic Community maintainership of mer-hybris device adaptations (15 min – asked by r0kk3rz)
08:15:42 <sledges> #info There are only a few device ports in https://github.com/mer-hybris and they are almost all completely outdated and unmaintained, often PRs there go unanswered. It would be great if some community members were given access to accept PRs and fork new adaptation repos into there for ongoing maintenance.
08:15:47 <sledges> #link https://github.com/mer-hybris
08:15:51 <sledges> #info Additionally for devices in mer-hybris, having a few people people with access to the associated nemo:hw:devel repos in OBS would help us keep OTA and image builds working, see:
08:15:55 <sledges> #link https://gitlab.com/sailfishos-porters-ci
08:16:30 <r0kk3rz> ok, so we were having some discussions about what it would take to keep well working ports in an updated and working state
08:16:39 <r0kk3rz> and it seems the biggest issue is access to repos and OBS
08:16:44 <Mister_Magister> i didnt put anything there cause it takes too long time lol
08:16:56 <sledges> ok here's our take on that:
08:17:04 <sledges> #info First and foremost, thank you for your relentless porting, latest hilight being r0kk3rz' Continuous Integration SFOS image builder for many devices on Gitlab \o/ (see above link)
08:17:24 <tortoisedoc> \o/ awesome
08:17:35 <sledges> #info And please accept sledges' apology for not being on the IRC channel often, doing my best when I can
08:17:41 <sledges> #info In retrospect, every time we have been asked to add repositories to github.com/mer-hybris, we did so and we made such porters to be admins (see e.g. OnePlus X onyx, Moto-G falcon)
08:18:00 <sledges> #info There are numerous github organisations created by porters (for old Sony Xperias, Motorolas, ...), and if they want to be upstreamed under mer-hybris, we'll be happy to do so and give them admin rights, just like we do for the Mer OBS build projects
08:18:01 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i havent see you in sfos porters since 2 years or so
08:18:03 <tortoisedoc> CI is definitely necessary to keep things in a good shape
08:18:43 * sledges goes Stskeeps style: Mister_Magister I charge per hour :D :P
08:18:58 <sledges> #info The only adaptation that is outdated under mer-hybris, yet has been very active downstream is OnePlus One (bacon), and we are to rectify the stale PR situation on the meritocracy basis of the current porter
08:19:01 <Mister_Magister> but what is advantage for having my repos on mer-hybris instead on my organisation
08:19:52 <Mister_Magister> i can't see any point of pushing any repos there
08:20:06 <sledges> it's not a must, but perhaps easier to discover?
08:20:25 <Mister_Magister> well thats no adavntage :P
08:20:48 <Mister_Magister> ill stay with my organisation then (too much hassle to move that anyway)
08:21:02 <r0kk3rz> it would help if someone was pushing porters to get their stuff forked in there
08:21:21 <r0kk3rz> its not so critical for actively maintained devices, but often we get people who do one or two releases and then dissapear
08:21:51 <sledges> when new porters come up, they fork 'em
08:21:52 <r0kk3rz> when often, only minimal changes are needed in between sfos releases
08:22:33 <sledges> it is stipulated in HADK to push dhd repos to mer-hybris
08:22:45 <r0kk3rz> im sure nobody reads that
08:23:00 <r0kk3rz> simply, many of our best ports arent in there
08:23:20 <sledges> let's come up with more pushy pushes then :))
08:23:45 <r0kk3rz> sure
08:24:21 <r0kk3rz> then you get the situtation of i say 'hey you should get sledges to do this' and then maybe a week later it happens :P
08:24:46 * sledges is a sailor, sails the seven seas every fortnight ;)
08:24:52 <r0kk3rz> im not blaming, just trying to spread the load a little bit
08:24:55 <sledges> comes back to a port
08:24:58 <lbt> isn't that what delegation is about?
08:25:09 <r0kk3rz> we have people who are very active
08:25:10 <lbt> and having an admin group
08:25:14 <r0kk3rz> and have been for some time
08:26:16 <sledges> hmm, i thought I made mal the maintainer of mer-hybris, but looks like he's only a member, hence less powers
08:26:24 <sledges> "mer-hybris-admin" group
08:26:46 <sledges> yet i have the same rights as he
08:27:05 <sledges> ah, probably not all dhd repos (like falcon) have the mer-hybris-admin group as member! damn github! :D
08:27:17 <sledges> that's really hard to propagage (known issue since bitbucket:)
08:27:33 <sledges> *propagate
08:27:36 * sledges will rectify that
08:27:43 <r0kk3rz> ok great :)
08:28:19 <r0kk3rz> access to poke and prod repos on OBS would also be great
08:28:35 <r0kk3rz> for instance some adaptations might still work, but their OBS libhybris is still get to minimalhooks
08:28:38 <r0kk3rz> which doesnt work
08:28:44 <Mister_Magister> sooo wanna me to sync all 71 repos to merhybris?
08:29:49 * Mister_Magister remembers that he cant do that
08:29:54 <sledges> r0kk3rz: indeed, two weeks of lead time is something that most people can't wait for, but i can't be on the Freenode IRC all the time; we'll need to delegate this as well
08:30:37 <sledges> from your topic description i didn't understand the relation to OBS, but now I see that you mean to assign an maintainer for nemo:devel:hw (and all things under), same for testing:
08:30:49 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i would love to be able to create new adaptations repos on obs but im sure i wont be able :P
08:31:04 <r0kk3rz> devel would be nice, thats what ive plugged into the ci
08:31:19 <Mister_Magister> yee i often add stuff there so it would be nice :P
08:31:28 <sledges> what about testing?
08:31:51 <r0kk3rz> sledges: step 1 is basic maintenance on device repos, step 2 is making sure OBS is pointing to the right stuff, webhooks work .etc, third step is the CI
08:32:32 <stephg> hello
08:32:36 <sledges> and that's the order of how we discussed above:)
08:32:37 <r0kk3rz> then we have an image a non-technical community member can try, and tell us if it works or is broken
08:32:54 <sledges> stephg o/
08:32:59 <stephg> sledges: \o
08:33:12 <sledges> r0kk3rz: so you're stealing the spotlight away from devaamo? :}
08:33:29 <r0kk3rz> last i checked devaamo doesnt build images from obs
08:33:46 <sledges> just talking about hosting, and mostly joking :))
08:33:59 <r0kk3rz> devaamo should be for properly released and tested images, pointing to testing repo
08:34:11 <sledges> how much storage have you got at disposal out of interest?
08:34:15 <sledges> got you!
08:34:28 <sledges> we've run overtime, time to wrap;)
08:34:29 <r0kk3rz> i think gitlab gives you 50gb for free
08:34:36 <r0kk3rz> which is nice of them
08:34:55 <sledges> and droid-hal build is onto a tmpfs of sorts? :)
08:34:56 * Mister_Magister has his own script for building on his vps lel
08:34:58 <r0kk3rz> yeah we can talk about the ci later if you have more questions
08:35:19 <sledges> alrighty
08:36:24 <sledges> I believe r0kk3rz has meritocratically earned a rightful rights to community's admin porter next to mal, to all those in favour :)
08:36:52 <abranson> +1
08:37:00 <stephg> nooooooo, I mean +1 :D
08:37:22 <Mister_Magister> sledges: and i dont?
08:37:50 <sledges> meritocracy takes time; http://www.merproject.org/
08:37:55 <sledges> let us move on
08:37:58 <sledges> #topic Next meeting’s time and date (5 min)
08:38:01 <sledges> oooops
08:38:02 <sledges> #undo
08:38:02 <merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x340cf50>
08:38:11 <sledges> #topic General discussion (15min)
08:38:35 * Mister_Magister guess duck me then heh
08:39:41 <Coolgeek> when SFOS X was annonced, there was a thing like a plan for after a year. Is this SFOS 3 ? or this this unrelated ?
08:40:07 <sledges> Coolgeek: that I believe was to announce more devices in the programme
08:40:32 <Coolgeek> so, no news for SFOS X n the futur :)
08:41:19 <sledges> these are the news of SFOS X
08:41:45 <r0kk3rz> xa2 ferry is comin
08:45:19 <sledges> (general discussion was originally 10mins :P we're veering to that!)
08:45:23 <pketo> Sailfish 3 is the upcoming Sailfish OS version, Sailfish X is the customer license sales program for different third party devices
08:45:50 <r0kk3rz> the marketing nomenclature is confusing
08:46:01 <tortoisedoc> absolutely
08:46:07 <pketo> yes, we have noticed that :)
08:46:16 <sledges> we don't follow 9 -> X version notation ;)
08:46:20 <tortoisedoc> so is the q3 release date stills tanding? :)
08:46:33 <r0kk3rz> a blog was just released about that
08:46:35 <tortoisedoc> (for sfows 3.0)
08:46:36 <tortoisedoc> :O
08:46:52 <pketo> #link https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-3-update-post/
08:47:09 <r0kk3rz> but first we get all the 2's 2.2.2
08:47:11 <tortoisedoc> pketo : whats with the reviews button in harbour? :)
08:47:23 <r0kk3rz> bonus points if the final release is
08:47:33 <stephg> heh
08:47:57 <r0kk3rz> or more likely
08:48:06 <sledges> let's hope not .222
08:48:12 <pketo> tortoisedoc: I don't know what to say about that :P
08:48:19 <tortoisedoc> first , then, then, then
08:48:24 <tortoisedoc> im sure you see a pattern here :P
08:48:35 <abranson> no tutus though
08:48:36 <sledges> tortoisedoc: that's if we push new glibc in there
08:48:43 <tortoisedoc> pketo : it does not work, fix it :P
08:48:58 <tortoisedoc> sledges : ha! excuses :P
08:49:07 <sledges> no, explanation for .2222 ;)
08:49:33 <sledges> which is the number of release candidates:))
08:49:38 <sledges> ok, time to move forward!
08:49:52 <sledges> #topic Next meeting's time and date (5 min)
08:50:16 <sledges> we need to swing back to Thursdays, because, "no reason" :D
08:50:17 <sledges> Thursday, 11th October 2018 at 08:00 UTC
08:50:21 <sledges> aye?
08:51:18 <r0kk3rz> go go thursday
08:52:04 <sledges> go go night on Thursday
08:52:43 <flypig> +1 Thursday, and hope James is okay.
08:54:27 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday, 11th October 2018 at 08:00 UTC
08:55:21 <sledges> many thanks all! let's go back to working on S3 (liking the sfos3 shorthand from a comment on twitter:))
08:55:24 <sledges> #endmeeting