08:00:07 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 11th July 2019
08:00:10 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 11 08:00:07 2019 UTC.  The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
08:00:10 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
08:00:18 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2019-July/008678.html
08:00:37 <sledges> I am the meeting’s chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and show some love to our James whose precious car has been vandalised, no wonder he can't attend now :(
08:00:57 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
08:01:36 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva – privateer for Jolla
08:02:34 <vknecht> #info Vincent Knecht - community
08:02:35 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, community
08:02:48 <birdzhang[m]> #info Bird Zhang - community
08:03:38 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla (and with sympathy for poor James)
08:03:43 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela - sailor @ Jolla
08:06:16 <sledges> looks like holiday period has kicked in!:)
08:06:24 <sledges> #topic Status of allowing more APIs/apps/whatever to the official store (10 min - asked by ApBBB)
08:06:48 <sledges> #info The status of the official store is not that good and openrepos seem to do better.
08:06:55 <sledges> #info Its been discussed in previous meetings that some things need to be done on Jollas side in order to allow more apps that are available in openrepos to be also in the store. Whats the status of that.
08:07:22 <sledges> #info < Jolla> We will be allowing more APIs in the official store in the future. We will do this so that we will maturize the APIs, and once they are mature enough they will be allowed. With the release of 3.1.0 we will allow Keepalive API.
08:10:06 <flypig> There was some discussion previously about allowing apps using unstable APIs into the store with a 'dangerous' flag. Is that still a possibility?
08:10:54 <ViGe> flypig: I would say the probability of that happening is really low.
08:10:56 <sledges> flypig: this is Jolla's current position on that: http://meetingwords.com/sailfishos-community-irc
08:12:04 <flypig> Okay, it seems sensible to focus on maturing the APIs, given openrepos works well.
08:13:26 <flypig> Fixing the APIs has broader benefits.
08:14:52 <ViGe> Yes indeed. And unfortunately it also seems that the most asked APIs are also the ones which need most work.
08:15:05 <sledges> apbbb22: you can read the logs so far http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2019/mer-meeting.2019-07-11-08.00.log.txt
08:15:10 <sledges> time to move on in 1
08:16:34 <leszek> #info Leszek Lesner - Community + dev
08:17:00 <sledges> #topic Feature für phonenumber blocking (5 min - asked by Raymaen)
08:17:20 <sledges> #info < Raymaen> There is this question from 2013!! that did not get any attention from Jolla (as far as i could see) but I think this is a pretty standard functionality for a smartphone that should be implemented (especially in a system that wants to be secure).
08:17:30 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/7614/blocklist-for-phone-calls-and-sms/
08:17:44 <sledges> #info < Raymaen> Is this feature planed to be implemented in Sailfish OS or what is the reason we still don't have it?
08:18:01 <sledges> #info < Jolla> This is in our backlog for Phone/SMS improvements for future, but we had higher priority fixes for improving usability of the core apps. This is still not yet scheduled to work on as we still have higher priority issues in features and usability of the core apps planned for this year.
08:19:00 <chriadam> this should be something which community could contribute to, also
08:19:16 <chriadam> means writing an ofono plugin
08:19:39 <flypig> There are some apps on openrepos that claim to do call blocking, but I've not tried them.
08:19:55 <flypig> E.g.: https://openrepos.net/content/omnight/phonehook
08:19:56 <chriadam> then some closed source bits in the UI application code to allow adding/removing numbers to the blocklist, I guess.
08:22:34 <sledges> looks like "answer phonecalls from cmdline" joke might truly become "block phonecalls via cmdline"!
08:22:40 <sledges> until UI catches up:)
08:22:51 <sledges> time to move it:)
08:22:58 <sledges> #info < chriadam> this should be something which community could contribute to, also means writing an ofono plugin
08:23:09 <sledges> #link https://openrepos.net/content/omnight/phonehook
08:23:43 <sledges> #topic End of BETA-Status for Xperia devices (15min - asked by Raymaen)
08:23:59 <sledges> #info < Raymaen> Dear Jolla-Team, first of all, thanks for the hard work! Is there a timeline planned for the end of the BETA-status for the Xperia devices (Sailfis X in general)? I know your situation and that corporate customers are being favored over community and private customers.
08:24:08 <sledges> #info < Raymaen> But it would be great to have a timeline for the END of the BETA-Status and have finaly a working device as a daily driver.
08:24:13 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/198517/wiki-state-of-sailfish-x-sensors-apps-and-androidtm-support-on-sony-xa2-variants/
08:24:29 <sledges> #info < Jolla> We are not preannouncing out of Beta in this meeting. We will announce it properly when its right time and we are hoping it won't take long anymore. We are working hard to make this happen as soon as possible.
08:26:08 <sledges> it's quite hard to read that wiki now, as many things say that they actually work
08:26:57 <flypig> It's impressively detailed.
08:27:56 <leszek> flypig: I never expected anything else
08:28:40 <leszek> I mean Jolla would shoot themselves in the foot telling anything more detailed
08:28:59 <sledges> i think flypig was referring to the wiki
08:29:16 <flypig> Oh, yes, sorry, I was talking about the wiki :)
08:29:38 <leszek> ah I see
08:29:46 <leszek> its still early in the morning
08:30:04 <flypig> But I agree with you also leszek
08:31:59 <tortoisedoc> #info tortoisedoc developer
08:33:18 <sledges> Jolla has always been dissed about being closed source, and yet Xperia X and XA2 hw adaptation is opensource, yet there aren't much help coming from community to fix daily-driver-blocking issues
08:33:52 <tortoisedoc> sledges : there's currently an effort for BT going on!
08:34:01 <sledges> awesome!
08:34:11 <sledges> tortoisedoc: source? (pun intended:)
08:34:24 <tortoisedoc> SOON (tm) ;)
08:34:25 <vknecht> and there's something coming for X too
08:34:44 <sledges> vknecht: in the next #topic ;)
08:34:49 <vknecht> too bad topic was not noticed https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2019-July/008665.html
08:35:06 <vknecht> ah :)
08:35:08 <Guest73> ApBBB here. i cant post on the channel.
08:35:09 <sledges> vknecht: it was, sorry i forgot it in the mail
08:35:29 <Guest73> sorry for not replying earlier but something was blocking my replies questions
08:35:32 <sledges> Guest73: you need to nickserv identify your nick
08:35:44 <faenil64> Regarding the xperia ports, is Jolla's plan to actively work on a full port for Android 9 based Sony devices?
08:35:58 <faenil64> Or is that left to community?
08:36:06 <Guest73> sledges didn't know. sorry for not replying eariler
08:36:25 <sledges> faenil64: please wait for general discussion, i was planning to post the link then and talk about it
08:36:49 <faenil64> Right sorry :)  saw xperia in the topic and hijacked :)
08:38:12 <sledges> faenil64: passed your hot-seat question internally, hope for the best ad-hoc answer:)
08:38:38 <faenil64> sledges: hehe cheers mate
08:39:21 <sledges> alright moving on
08:39:59 <sledges> #topic Mechanism for teams to maintain apps in the store (5min - asked by KeeperoftheKeys)
08:40:22 <sledges> #info < KeeperoftheKeys> There are a lot of orphaned apps in the store, the ones that are actually maintained by upstream projects still can't be updated because the app is linked to a specific username of whoever originally packaged it for SailfishOS. There are 2 things needed as far as I can tell:
08:40:34 <sledges> #info < KeeperoftheKeys> 1 - a mechanism for others to take over maintaining OSS packages that are unmaintained, this will provide an immediate solution to this problem.
08:40:46 <sledges> #info < KeeperoftheKeys> 2 - as a more long term solution allowing teams to own applications instead of specific users. Case in point - I am starting to maintain gPodder for SFOS and have been granted rw access on the official github repository however I won't as far as I understand be able to submit a new version of gPodder that replaces the current one since that belongs to a different user.
08:41:06 <sledges> #info < Jolla> We have changed store app ownership in couple of cases. For this both the old and new ownder should contact developer-care@jolla.com
08:41:48 <sledges> #link mailto:developer-care@jolla.com
08:44:27 <flypig> If the old owner is unresponsive (for unmaintained package), I guess there is no good solution.
08:44:51 <flypig> (in general I mean, not just for Jolla Store).
08:45:26 <sledges> not for the moment, maybe a proof of attempts to contact previous owner timing out (1 month?) would suffice
08:47:23 <sledges> since KeeperoftheKeys has been given rw access to repo, means original author is still reachable, and they can swap ownerships in the store too, in this case
08:47:54 <flypig> Yes, it would seem so.
08:48:59 <piggz[m]> it would be harder if packages were signed by a developer
08:49:00 <flypig> I know other repos, like npm, have grappled with this. The issues for Jolla Store may not be the same, but it can be tricky: https://blog.npmjs.org/post/182828408610/the-security-risks-of-changing-package-owners
08:49:23 <sledges> #info if you have other cases where previous owner is unreachable for a very long time, please create another topic for this meeting, and we'll see if a more in-depth solution could be found, or case-by-case`d
08:49:37 <sledges> moving on
08:50:12 <sledges> #topic WIP AOSP8 rebase for X / X Compact (10 min - asked by vknecht)
08:50:19 <sledges> sorry vknecht, had to shorten this one due to many other topics
08:50:29 <sledges> #info < vknecht> Been working to bring Nile-style port to Loire and getting to my limits. Device boots but no USB connectivity nor GUI yet, mainly due to dhc pattern problem preventing mic to copy sparse/ files to rootfs.
08:50:38 <sledges> #info < vknecht> Is Jolla ready to help, or better get the ball rolling and update official port using this work?
08:50:45 <sledges> #link https://build.merproject.org/project/show/home:vknecht:hw:qualcomm:f5121
08:51:13 <sledges> vknecht: i think mal had such a port, with GUI up
08:51:36 <mal> yes, most things worked in that
08:51:48 <mal> only bt and usb issues
08:52:00 <vknecht> little update: it boots to GUI when extracting the missing droid-config-f5121-[1.1/sailfish/bluez5] RPMs in rootfs
08:52:49 <vknecht> gets calls and sms, but blocked to lockscreen due to license page skipped -> language not retained -> wizard not starting
08:53:13 <piggz[m]> maybe you had the same issue as me last night
08:53:20 <piggz[m]> missing -sailfish package installed
08:53:38 <piggz[m]> droid-config-*-sailfish
08:53:46 <piggz[m]> prevents loading wizards
08:54:15 <vknecht> yep, but I also have to exclude it from patterns (with the config-bluez5 too) otherwise mic says "not installable provider" (different from "uninstallable provider")
08:54:54 <mal> I had no such issue, maybe you did something wrong somewhere
08:55:05 <sledges> vknecht: the problem you are having with patterns might be stemming from the fact you haven't followed package-to-package when porting f5121 the way sony-nile is. Lads over here did an exemplary job: https://github.com/marina-bay/
08:55:27 <sledges> you should end up with droid-config-sony-loire repos and others
08:57:02 <vknecht> well, nile & ix5 repo and talks have been a reference, maybe missed something
08:57:25 <sledges> that's why best is to ask us for the best approach before starting a job of such magnitude:) especially, when mal has already a PoC
08:59:24 <sledges> at Jolla we did speak during the planning to rebase X under XA2's wing, so if community could join forces and iron out remaining issues (mal's BT and USB e.g.), that would be a great kickstart for next discussion and actions
08:59:48 <mal> I also know why usb failed but didn't fix it yet
08:59:54 <sledges> especially seeing that there's lesser effort when the port is done
09:00:15 <vknecht> the usb.configfs.rc not being used ?
09:01:02 <sledges> let's revisit this in the next meeting, there's always lots happening at Jolla, so every little from community helps:)
09:01:04 <mal> vknecht: yes, something like that
09:01:18 <sledges> please take technicalities to #sailfishos-porters:)
09:01:29 <mal> sure
09:01:47 <sledges> let's move on to gen discussion, where a related effort will be talked about
09:01:53 <sledges> #topic General discussion (10min)
09:02:20 <Guest73> sledges one question that i couldn't post on the first topic. is there any ETA for socket activation??
09:02:56 <piggz[m]> for general.....in prev meetings, jolla has been positive about bringing FP to community ports, or helping with the details of what to do...any progress on this?
09:03:32 <sledges> Guest73: (ApB): the only ETA that we announce currently is KeepAlive API (ETA = 3.1.0), others will be as per the earlier answer: as and when ready
09:03:50 <Guest73> and are there any news regarding newer devices new hw ??
09:03:57 <Guest73> sledges ok read that
09:04:02 <sledges> #info Jolla has made an Android 9 proof-of-concept hw adaptation for Xperia 10, and is inviting community to work together on the port:
09:04:12 <sledges> #link https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Sailfish_X_Xperia_Android_9_Build_and_Flash
09:04:15 <piggz[m]> slkedges
09:04:28 <sledges> pikggz
09:04:31 <piggz[m]> sledges, community fixed droidmedia for ya ;)
09:05:13 <piggz[m]> android9 based fxtec is working reasonably
09:05:16 <sledges> yes, that's one fine example of community (namely piggz[m] :P) being a two-way-street when it comes to opensource and collaboration! https://github.com/sailfishos/droidmedia/pull/50
09:05:30 <sledges> i hope others will follow suit
09:05:46 <sledges> thanks to piggz[m], xperia 10 now has camera and media playback working out of the box!
09:06:04 <piggz[m]> ha :)
09:06:14 <faenil86> :)
09:06:33 <sledges> faenil86: and as to your answer: we are looking into Android 9 BSP already which some of you might have already noted. Nothing official to announce yet
09:06:50 <flypig> The fxtec looks great with SFOS. Amazing work piggz[m].
09:06:57 <mal> piggz[m]: after telling you how to fix it :P
09:07:21 <sledges> :P
09:07:26 <Guest73> fxtec is gigantic :/
09:07:31 <piggz[m]> mal, yeah, its fairly boiler plate code!
09:07:42 <faenil86> sledges: I see, so no official commitment to trying to do a full SFOS port to Android 9 Sony devices
09:08:25 <vknecht> what's the plan for 4.9 kernel branch ?
09:08:52 <sledges> fxtec is a true reminiscence of Nokia Lauta (a never-released N950 successor:) https://www.geek.com/mobile/scrapped-nokia-lauta-slider-with-meego-would-have-followed-the-n9-1513551/ (N950 was also never released officially lol, only available for developers/awards)
09:09:31 <tortoisedoc> sledges : recall the bug tracking on the sb2 hooking issues with glibc internal apis? thats still pending
09:09:53 <piggz[m]> i should do an fxtec/n950 side by side!
09:10:13 <sledges> Guest73: so Xperia 10 would be the new hw, if it all goes ahead. but you can flash an alpha-state sfos to it already now :p
09:10:28 <sledges> we just added Xperia 10 Plus yesterday too btw
09:10:55 <Guest73> sledges those phones are not for me. they are massive
09:11:09 <Guest73> no idea what to do if my J1 dies :/
09:11:14 <sledges> vknecht: kernel 4.9 is now in use with android 9 bsp: https://github.com/mer-hybris/android_kernel_sony_msm/commits/hybris-sony-aosp-9.0.0_r37_20190620
09:11:28 <sledges> Guest73: Xperia10 is narrow
09:11:48 <sledges> and sfos is suited for one-hand-use ;) it's so sad to see android minimise itself to lower-right corner for such purposes xD
09:11:49 <vknecht> yep I've seen the branches, and the fact that sony says 4.4 is security maintenance only
09:12:00 <Guest73> sledges yes but my thumb isn't 20cm long
09:12:07 <sledges> Guest73: ^^
09:12:20 <vknecht> so only for Pie based, not for XA2 ? (and X ;-) ?
09:12:50 <piggz[m]> maybe the pinephone will be a bettr size for you
09:13:34 <Guest73> without properly sized HW sfos cant shine :./
09:13:46 <Guest73> piggz[m] still too big
09:14:16 <sledges> tortoisedoc: yes, me and lbt are waiting for your TJC post on sb2 hooks;)
09:14:35 <piggz[m]> sledges....fp community support?
09:14:45 <flypig> Guest73, you want SF ported to the Palm Phone?
09:15:03 <sledges> Guest73: you don't need 20cm thumb in sfos, in android you would, i mean just look at this horrid kludge :D https://www.androidcentral.com/how-use-galaxy-note-5s-one-handed-operation-mode
09:15:05 <piggz[m]> no, nokia 8110
09:15:23 <Guest73> flypig xz2c would be ok i guess.
09:15:40 <birdzhang[m]> so, is sfos on feature phone dead ?
09:15:50 <sledges> piggz[m]: ping mal on this, i've lost track with internal discussion
09:16:01 <Guest73> i don't think a phone should be bigger than 122x63
09:16:44 <piggz[m]> sledges, will do, ive already been on it :)
09:16:44 <sledges> ok, time to wrap up
09:17:28 <piggz[m]> no time to squeeze in a qt 5.9 eta?? :D
09:17:29 <sledges> #topic Next meeting time & date (5min)
09:17:34 <piggz[m]> j/k!
09:18:37 <sledges> it's Finnish holiday season big time in July, so I suggest we meet in 4 weeks!
09:18:53 <chriadam> sounds sensible
09:19:04 <sledges> prep your topics, as I've seen some good ones here in General discussion, that would need a revisit or two
09:19:34 <tortoisedoc> sledges  : did you get my msg before?
09:19:43 <sledges> tortoisedoc: yep, replied
09:20:03 <sledges> tortoisedoc: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2019/mer-meeting.2019-07-11-08.00.log.txt
09:20:09 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on 1st April 2019 at 08:00 UTC
09:20:22 <chriadam> uh
09:20:33 <sledges> oops
09:20:35 <sledges> that's 3 weeks irght
09:20:37 <sledges> #undo
09:20:37 <merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x37c4a90>
09:20:39 <flypig> Early April fools joke
09:20:42 <birdzhang[m]> xD
09:20:47 <tortoisedoc> sledges : _b
09:20:59 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on 8th August 2019 at 08:00 UTC
09:21:00 <sledges> ;)
09:21:03 <sledges> lol
09:21:09 <chriadam> +1
09:21:25 <chriadam> from me
09:21:29 * sledges brain in holiday mode already
09:21:37 <faenil59> Guest73: I bought a xz2c to replace my j1 :)
09:21:47 <sledges> vknecht: forgot to add earlier: Android 9 sfos wiki has been designed with porting X and XA2 to 9 as well (see the -pie suffix on repo names)
09:21:52 <Guest73> faenil59 it doesn't run sfos :/
09:21:56 <sledges> so the soil is fertile
09:22:00 <faenil59> Not yet ;)
09:22:01 <sledges> thanks all!
09:22:03 <vknecht> ok :)
09:22:04 <chriadam> thanks all
09:22:04 <sledges> #endmeeting