08:00:34 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – 16th of April 2020
08:00:34 <sailbot_> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 08:00:34 2020 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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08:00:58 <Jaymzz> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2020-April/009136.html
08:01:17 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting’s chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle.
08:01:43 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
08:02:01 <Jaymzz> hmm, it didn't register
08:02:28 <Jaymzz> it'll be correct in the logs anyway so please go ahead :)
08:02:41 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori - sailor @ Jolla
08:02:55 <piggz> #info Adam Pigg - Commnity porter
08:02:56 <Nico[m]> #info Nico, community dev
08:04:57 <julienb> #info Julien, app developer
08:04:58 <Jaymzz> Not many attendees today, I thought everyone was staying home :)
08:05:42 <Nico[m]> But if you are staying home, why get up early? ;p
08:05:55 <Jaymzz> Good point ;)
08:06:03 <Nico[m]> Also I forgot it was thursday
08:06:31 <Jaymzz> Yeah you do lose the track of time when you aren't going out...
08:06:44 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones, sailor @ Jolla
08:06:58 <Jaymzz> Anyway I hope everyone is safe and healthy :) I'll move on to the first topic in a moment
08:08:40 <Jaymzz> #topic NFC access from android layer
08:08:53 <Jaymzz> #info Details: huawei phones have no GMS now and use their substitute HMS (https://mobile-review.com/articles/2020/huawei-pay.shtml ). There is an app that works there for NFC payments. if Jolla would allow Android apps to use NFC, would it work on SFOS?
08:09:29 <Jaymzz> #link https://mobile-review.com/articles/2020/huawei-pay.shtml
08:09:51 <Jaymzz> Answer coming up:
08:09:54 <Jaymzz> #info Currently we are working on our NFC support in general for Sailfish OS and it is still in early phases. It will still take some time until we will start checking feasibility of adding support for the Android App Support side.
08:10:20 <Jaymzz> The person asking the question is offline. So let's see if anyone else has anything to say about this :)
08:11:32 <rinigus> sounds like very reasonable approach. let's get it working well on Sailfish and Android layer can always wait.
08:11:56 <Jaymzz> Yes indeed :)
08:13:02 <Jaymzz> I think we have a record today for the amount of people attending the meeting, in terms of how low the number is :D so I guess I can move on to general discussion and see if anyone has anything to bring up '
08:13:51 <flypig> That's an unfortunately record :)
08:14:14 <bionade24> Hi, I'm late. In the libsilica wiki, there are Links to Qt 5.14. Could those maybe replaced to the 5.6 ones in the internet Archive?
08:14:27 <julienb> i was not sure i could attend today, so i did not bring the topic to the schedule, but if there is a bit of available time i'd like to raise this request on the table : https://together.jolla.com/question/191167/working-with-multiple-addressbooks/
08:14:43 <piggz> well, as a general question, has anyone had an issue with 3.3 where mail no longer automatically downloads unless the email app is open?
08:14:52 <Jaymzz> ok I'll change the topic to general discussion then
08:14:56 <Jaymzz> #topic general discussion (20 min)
08:15:27 <flypig> piggz, there are new folder sync settings, could that be the cause?
08:16:04 <Nico[m]> piggz: I didn't notice that, but I almost always have my email app open anyway, so...
08:16:07 <julienb> @piggz no, but i got hang of phone app two times (need to kill it and reopen it, unsure if phone was still able to receive calls)
08:16:16 <flypig> bionade24, that's a sensible idea. Probably ViGe is the person to ask about that?
08:16:22 <piggz> flypig: maybe ... i checked in accounts and the account is set to sync every 30 mins
08:16:35 <flypig> Also, the folder sync. It might be set to not sync any folders?
08:16:58 <piggz> its a gmail account ... flypig, where are the folder sync settings?
08:17:09 <bionade24> flypig: Even with 3.2 it never synced all folders
08:17:59 <bionade24> piggz: ^
08:18:14 <flypig> Settings > Accounts > Gmail > scroll to "Synced folders" I think (I don't have a Gmail account configured just now to double check).
08:18:28 <piggz> well, i only care about the inbox syncing, not bothered about the spam folder :)
08:18:58 <piggz> flypig: it says Synced folder: inbox only
08:19:01 <piggz> which seems ok
08:19:01 <bionade24> ViGe: R u there?
08:19:14 <flypig> piggz, yeah, then I guess not that.
08:20:05 <flypig> If you have to set it sync every 30 mins, that would be buteo's job to do.
08:21:15 <Nico[m]> Is there a way to contribute documentation or guides to sailfish? I needed to dig a bit to figure out how to use background tasks appropriately (from C++), and I would like to document that, if possible. I could of course contribute that to the library documentation, but I had trouble finding that in the first place. Maybe that would be good to post in the forum, when it is released?
08:21:45 <piggz> flypig: ill check logs later :)
08:22:11 <Nico[m]> (There is documentation for the Qml type on the silica page, but not for the C++ type)
08:23:10 <piggz> other question i saw from leszek on telegram ...  is the tabview private only?
08:23:30 <flypig> I'm pretty sure the tabview is still private.
08:23:45 <piggz> as im i, thats what i said, just checking
08:24:00 <Nico[m]> Would be neat, if it wasn't though :D
08:24:33 <flypig> Yes, I agree, it'd be nice if it wasn't, but I think there were a few things that needed to be checked/ironed out before.
08:24:53 <flypig> Nico[m], I think the intended approach for documentation is via a PR, but otherwise, yes, I'd say the new developer forum sounds good.. when it exists.
08:25:10 <piggz> question 3 : can you please fix the browser in the sdk emulator
08:25:38 <piggz> definitley becuase i want to use the browser in the emultor for my day to day work
08:25:53 <Nico[m]> flypig: A PR to the library or is there some other repo for documentation?
08:26:39 <flypig> Q3: a good point, but I think another one for the SDK team. Jaymzz, I guess these can be passed on?
08:27:19 <Jaymzz> flypig: absolutely
08:27:21 <bionade24> piggz: What doesn't work excactly? I tried it and it worked for me.
08:27:28 <abranson> no I think that's a gecko problem. hopefully that will get fixed shortly
08:27:47 <bionade24> piggz: Sorry I thought silica webview
08:27:49 <abranson> the browser shows nothing but a blank page on the emulator (and native devices)
08:27:58 <flypig> Nico[m], yeah to the library, as the docs are then doxygen generated. I take your point though: for tutorial-type stuff that may not really appropriate.
08:28:08 <flypig> *be appropriate.
08:29:28 <piggz> Jaymzz: the pinephone port would be a great benficiary to the emulator being fixed ... which is quite random :)
08:29:33 <flypig> Nico[m], sounds like it would be good documentation to have somewhere though, certainly.
08:29:48 <Nico[m]> flypig: I'll see what I can do. Some more guidance/documentation would be appropriate in the library, but I think some general guides on how to do stuff in Sailfish would be nice to put somewhere :3
08:29:53 <ViGe> hi
08:30:12 <Jaymzz> piggz: wouldn't it? :) random but true!
08:30:21 <ViGe> bionade24: Where exactly are the wrong links?
08:30:58 <bionade24> ViGe: https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/ They point to latest
08:31:16 <rinigus> not sure we need to update the links to old Qt. Wouldn't it be better to focus on getting Qt version bumped to match the current link?
08:31:30 <piggz> rinigus: +1
08:31:59 <flypig> Nico[m], I fully agree. ViGe, is there a repo for general tutorial/docs that Nico[m] could contribute to?
08:32:03 <piggz> q4: is jolla impacted by the ongoing Qt/kde  shenanigans ?
08:32:08 <bionade24> rinigus: 5.14 will never have LTS. I would stay on 5.12
08:32:10 <julienb> rinigus: in any case the Qt version would reasonably need to be an LTS one, not the latest one
08:32:12 <abranson> piggz, Jaymzz: looks like gecko isn't working with mesa, which both of those use?
08:32:29 <piggz> abranson: i know that ;)
08:32:40 <abranson> not very random then :)
08:32:57 <bionade24> piggz: Are they really ongoing? I thought it's over now.
08:33:02 <piggz> i know, but it may seem random to those not in the know ;)
08:33:14 <piggz> bionade24: who knows, i loose track!
08:33:20 <ViGe> flypig: Unfortunately the repo is not public :/
08:33:47 <flypig> Oh, that's a shame. Not yet public, or not likely ever?
08:34:19 <Nico[m]> ViGe: That's just a setting, that you can change! Just flip the switch! (Jokes aside, having that repo public would probably be useful)
08:34:36 <rinigus> I would say that the issues with qt/kde are ongoing. so, reasonable question
08:35:07 <bionade24> rinigus: What happened in last days after tQtC released their statement?
08:35:22 <rinigus> ... but probably hard to have any response as Jolla doesn't seem to have yet Qt update policy set
08:36:00 <bionade24> rinigus: I think the biggest problem for Jolla is the License change of QtWayland to GPLv3
08:36:02 <Jaymzz> glad to see the discussion liven up after a rather underwhelming start :)
08:36:11 <rinigus> bionade24: don't know much about whether anything happened. but statement was vague
08:36:15 <Nico[m]> I'd say Jolla isn't affected by the Qt stuff, as it lags in Qt versions by more than a year usually anyway! ;p
08:37:02 <rinigus> bionade24: when did qtwayland license change? do you know the version of corresponding qt
08:38:19 <bionade24> rinigus: Oktober 2019 https://www.qt.io/blog/change-in-open-source-licensing-of-qt-wayland-compositor-qt-application-manager-and-qt-pdf
08:38:29 <bionade24> rinigus: Qt 5.14
08:39:10 <rinigus> ok, so 5.12 is still gplv3-safe
08:39:39 <bionade24> rinigus: It's LGPLv3, though. Don't know why this is a problem for Jolla
08:40:28 <piggz> it would be nice to get a statement from Jolla on the exact issues preventing a Qt upgrade, on  a package by package basis
08:40:40 <bionade24> piggz: +1
08:40:48 <rinigus> no idea, and lost any hope to get an answer regarding qt / license issues any time even soon^TM
08:41:04 <rinigus> piggz: yes, such statement is needed
08:41:19 <Jaymzz> piggz I'll try to get your questions answered by the next meeting as good as I can
08:41:27 <piggz> or even just a statement saying we intend to stick with 5.6 for the forseeable, so we stop going round in circles
08:41:57 <piggz> Jaymzz: thx v much :)
08:42:28 <rinigus> I wonder if we should switch to nemo after 5.12 update there. or have some kind of hybrid...
08:43:06 <piggz> rinigus: that be fighting talk :D
08:43:27 <rinigus> Jaymzz: please do, that qt state has to be clear for all.
08:43:56 <Jaymzz> piggz it would make it much easier if you could email me your questions. Would you be able to do that? :) Just wanna have them organised and avoid potentially missing anything from the logs
08:44:14 <Jaymzz> rinigus: I'll do my best :)
08:44:16 <Nico[m]> Didn't they say in the last meeting or so, that Qt would be upgraded next after the toolchain upgrades in 3.3?
08:44:45 <piggz> Jaymzz: ok, ill do that shortly :) i can chuck in a status on the fingerprint support too :D
08:44:47 <Nico[m]> (Or at least that toolchain was prioritized before Qt for the mean time until 3.3)
08:45:22 <bionade24> Nico[m]: But they said they haven't solved the licensing issues, though
08:45:24 <Jaymzz> piggz: yeah take all the advantage of it :D haha! and I assume you have my email? james.noori at jolla dot com
08:45:32 <rinigus> Jaymzz: you don't have to wait for the next meeting, its great if you could use blog for it
08:45:40 <piggz> Jaymzz: yes, from the blog stuff, which never appeared ;)
08:46:30 <rinigus> Nico: I don't have such impression regarding qt update. but maybe I missed something ...
08:47:10 <Nico[m]> Or just write a short statement in the #sailfishos channel, since most of the people that are interested in the Qt upgrade listen to that channel anyway
08:47:24 <Nico[m]> rinigus: Well, I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered some talk about it...
08:47:58 <bionade24> Nico[m]: You're right, but they also said why I said in the same meeting
08:48:06 <bionade24> *what
08:48:40 <ljo> sorry to be late, had another meeting
08:49:03 <Jaymzz> rinigus: It probably won't appear on the blog at this moment. We are doing some changes in the background that I'll probably be able to tell you about it soon(tm) ;) so let's see how things work out, The current world situation has slowed down everything unfortunately so that's why I used soon(tm) thingy again.
08:49:33 <Jaymzz> piggz: the above statement applies to what you said too :)
08:49:55 <piggz> ok :)
08:50:11 <rinigus> I think a clear message stating what are the issues and what is the current plan is needed. if you cannot put it into blog, maybe some irc channel or devel mailing list will be as good
08:50:14 <Jaymzz> ljo welcome! we only had 1 topic today, but the general discussion is going pretty great!
08:50:36 <Jaymzz> rinigus: noted
08:50:39 <rinigus> or Jaymzz , you don't want to state anything "officially"?
08:50:54 <Jaymzz> rinigus: you mean on the blog?
08:52:01 <rinigus> cross-posting. let's skip my prev message as you noted that statement can be sent via irc or mailing list
08:52:15 <Jaymzz> alright :)
08:52:54 <Jaymzz> I assume there are not much more to dusciss right now, as we are over time and I see the discussion has quieted down
08:53:06 <Jaymzz> I'll give it a few more seconds and will move on
08:53:20 <rinigus> btw, I don't mind getting "unofficial" info via those channels. in this respect, just saying we are going to do this and that, problems are those, we plan to do it in this timeframe, but it maybe delayed
08:53:23 <Nico[m]> I'm just waiting for the dev forum :D
08:53:48 <Jaymzz> Nico[m]: what I said above is related to what you are waiting for ;)
08:54:14 <Nico[m]> Jaymzz: That sounds great!
08:54:58 <Jaymzz> rinigus: what we say as sailors are counted as official so even if I talk here casually about these topics and say what I know, it counts as official statements that will then be spread in the community
08:55:14 <Jaymzz> so we've got to be careful ;) history teaches us that :P
08:55:31 <ljo> rinigus: +1
08:55:40 <Nico[m]> Also about the Qt stuff still, I think most of us are developers and understand if something gets delayed and since this is mostly about APIs, inofficial infos should be fine. But currently it feels like we are completely in the dark, which is a bit discouraging :D
08:56:06 <rinigus> I would argue against it as history teaches us of Jolla being over-cautious and rather secretive. :)
08:56:24 <rinigus> ^ as a devil's advocate
08:56:25 <Jaymzz> Nico[m]: understood. I'll take this concern forward
08:57:38 <ljo> Jaymzz: But, the plans can be changed. We all know that, but at least this is what is stated now under current situation.
08:57:46 <bionade24> + 1 for the developer forum. Would help me as a newbie a lot
08:57:48 <Nico[m]> (I understand that official statements can get you in a lot of trouble, especially if you announce something, and then can't deliver, but some updates if Jolla is working on Qt is very helpful for devs to plan, what they prioritize themselves)
08:58:38 <Nico[m]> bionade24: The dev forum is already planned for a while and was announced a while ago. So it will come at some point, but I'm also waiting for it eagerly :3
08:58:40 <abranson> its when people don't accept the reason that things are delayed or can't happen that the problems arise. it's very easy to over-simplify things, and view real reasons as 'excuses'
08:58:42 <rinigus> ljo: exactly,
09:00:40 <Jaymzz> ljo: indeed, you understand that. and many others too, but not everyone! We have seen in the past that by publishing some plans, and then changing them later for whatever reason, people became angry! And that's something we obviously want to avoid.
09:00:40 <flypig> If you want to get an idea of updates and progress (in general), the best way is to look at the public pull requests, I always think.
09:01:21 <Jaymzz> Plus, Jolla has customers that have their own needs and requirements. It is rarely appreciated if we publish some info about the future work we are going to do for them.
09:01:40 <rinigus> flypig: last time I looked, there were none with the respect of Qt updates
09:01:43 <abranson> yes, there's always a lot more going on in the repos than can even be sensibly declared officially
09:01:59 <Jaymzz> What I'm trying to say here is that we have to hold a balance between what we can and can't say, and try to keep both our community and corporate customers happy.
09:02:38 <Jaymzz> It's not the easiest thing in the world, but I'm personally here for the community's sake. And I always do what I can to get as much as possible for the community :)
09:03:17 <Jaymzz> But as mentioned, I'll take piggz' questions and will see what I can bring out of them :)
09:03:26 <rinigus> Jaymzz: looking forward then for your replies to piggz  questions
09:03:47 <Nico[m]> Jaymzz: Yes, I'm very grateful for all you do. I'm just complaining, because I also want to shift the more corporate side of Jolla more in my favor :D
09:03:49 <Jaymzz> So hopefully by the next meeting i'll have more light to shed on these topics.
09:04:03 <piggz> i cant believe the corporate customers arnt interested in a qt update?
09:04:04 <Nico[m]> Thanks :3
09:04:12 <Jaymzz> Nico[m]: I understand :)
09:04:23 <rinigus> piggz: they may have a reply
09:04:33 <Jaymzz> piggz: I didn't say that :D
09:05:05 <bionade24> piggz: If the License changes are bad for them, they aren't
09:05:27 <piggz> true, so lets see what the issues are
09:05:47 <Nico[m]> piggz: Maybe they are interested, but want other stuff prioritized first or have some issues with the license or whatever... corporations are weird!
09:05:47 <rinigus> and follow closely nemo at 5.12 update
09:06:17 <julienb> i would guess one of the main issues is with the qtpim infrastructure, which indead had some significant changes between 5.6 and 5.12
09:06:21 <Jaymzz> I obviously can't comment on any custimer's behalf. But what I said above was not that they are not interested. What I said that the corporate customers may not appreciate some info coming out in the public beforehand about the future plans etc. And that's completely normal in teh corporate world.
09:06:34 <Jaymzz> customer's* rather.
09:07:10 <piggz> gecko update would be a big benefit to the pinephone port, and may get us to be one of the shipped OSs ;)
09:07:19 <Jaymzz> But we need to end the meeting, as it si lunch time in Finland and sailors are going to disappear from the chat :)
09:07:28 <Jaymzz> So piggz I'll wait for your email
09:07:31 <flypig> piggz, that would be great.
09:07:49 <piggz> it would, we just need to demo a good stable build
09:07:58 <piggz> browser and calls are the blockers atm
09:08:22 <piggz> the pine64 ppl specfically mentioned the browser  not working
09:08:36 <Nico[m]> piggz: The gecko update would be nice, but I wouldn't get my hopes up... Embedding gecko sucks :D
09:09:02 <piggz> its not an update thats the issue, its the fact it doesnt wotrk with mesa
09:09:16 <Jaymzz> piggz: Nico[m] seriously we need to move on :)
09:09:21 <bionade24> piggz: with mesa or with waylan
09:09:26 <bionade24> *wayland?
09:09:29 <piggz> mesa
09:09:54 <Jaymzz> let's postpone this discussion to the next meeting. I'll make sure to dedicate a time to it.
09:10:03 <Jaymzz> #topic next meeting time and date (5 min)
09:10:10 <ljo> Jaymzz: I understand
09:10:12 <Nico[m]> Hm, I should just buy a pinephone and see, if I can fix some gecko stuff... :D
09:10:26 <piggz> Nico[m]: pls do :)
09:10:33 <Jaymzz> #info Next meeting will be held on April 30th 2020 at 08:00 UTC
09:10:50 <piggz> Nico[m]: if you can fix it in the emulator, it will fix it for us too
09:11:12 <bionade24> Nico[m]: You won't get it into germany, currently
09:11:32 <bionade24> Nico[m]: Because it hasn't a CE Label
09:12:02 <Jaymzz> Ending the meeting. thanks all for attending! minutes will be sent as usual :)
09:12:06 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting