06:59:59 <sledges> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021
06:59:59 <sailbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 22 06:59:59 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:59:59 <sailbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
07:00:07 <sledges> #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:
07:00:11 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-apr-2021/5818
07:00:17 <sledges> I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and beahver.
07:00:20 <sledges> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info
07:00:49 <ExTechOp> #info Otto Mäkelä, community
07:00:50 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla
07:00:57 <Nico[m]> #info Nico - community
07:01:06 <lbt> #info David Greaves, Jolla sailor
07:02:05 <rubdos[ma]> #info Ruben De Smet, community, standing in for nthn
07:02:33 <ViGe> #info Ville Nummela, sailor@Jolla
07:02:52 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
07:03:33 <Thaodan> #info Björn Bidar - sailor at Jolla
07:04:46 <flypig> #info David Llewellyn-Jones sailor @ jolla
07:05:08 <Thaodan> hyvää huomenta you all :)
07:05:27 <sledges> #topic Enabling MPEG DASH in gstreamer (5 min -- asked by Mister_Magister)
07:05:30 <Nico[m]> Hey, I still know enough finish to understand that!
07:05:43 <sledges> #info <Mister_Magister> Previously it was said that enabling it requires costly licenses. But upon my investigation neither DASH-IF and projects it supports require any licenses to use and neither DASH LA sells dash license anymore. This topic is just to inform and motivate Jolla to talk to their law people to check if it really needs license. Otherwise DASH is going to be very useful.
07:06:20 <sledges> #info <Jolla> There is no information about the patents being revoked, just that the pool collapsed? Pool apparently collapsed because many principal patent holders were missing. News hint there is an ongoing invalidation campaign, but until there is official news of the patents being voided we cannot prematurely enable such patented technology.
07:08:14 <abranson> #info Andrew Branson - late sailor
07:08:29 <ExTechOp> (the late Mr. Branson)
07:08:37 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Out of interest, what are the concrete use cases where you are planning to use this? And what are the benefits?
07:08:50 <Thaodan> How is the early Mr Branson? :p
07:09:06 <abranson> I don't believe he exists
07:09:32 <Nico[m]> DASH is used for a lot of videos nowadays, like reddit videos and youtube afaik. Those videos play only either video or sound without it, afaik.
07:10:48 <sledges> is Mister_Magister around?
07:11:07 <Thaodan> abranson: Maybe some good Finish coffee would help
07:12:02 <sledges> Mr Earl(y) Grey Branson was mentioned as the substitute-knows-it-all:)
07:12:17 <Nico[m]> I guess Mister_Magister overslept :D
07:12:27 <Thaodan> I fear it is like with many things that you require the one the other thing first before you allowed to use it
07:13:04 <Nico[m]> But I think he wanted to play a video that was split in 2 streams, audio and video and you basically need dask to play them or "reimplement" it by combining those streams in gstreamer
07:13:06 <abranson> well, I spoke to him about it, and he wanted legal clarification, and that's what he's got
07:13:12 <Thaodan> Nico[m]: next meeting at 18:00 confirmed xD
07:13:29 <Nico[m]> Thaodan: TODAY?!?
07:13:33 <rubdos[ma]> "no afternoon meetings" is what I heard last time ;p
07:14:18 <Thaodan> No meetings that are close to lunch time, a man needs time to go to lunch
07:14:23 <abranson> because the whole patent situation around DASH is a mess right now. There's a licensing authority but it doesn't cover enough patents so it's not active right now. So I guess the legal solution right now would be to license all those patents individually from each licensee.
07:15:13 <rubdos[ma]> Sounds like your typical MPEG/JPEG license mess :(
07:15:39 <sledges> #info <abranson> because the whole patent situation around DASH is a mess right now. There's a licensing authority but it doesn't cover enough patents so it's not active right now. So I guess the legal solution right now would be to license all those patents individually from each licensee.
07:15:52 <sledges> and 5 minutes just gone (twice actually:)
07:15:58 <sledges> moving on
07:15:59 <sledges> #topic Collaboration with community on future-proofing Xperia X with updated Android app support (15 min -- asked by nthn, represented by rubdos)
07:16:09 <sledges> #info <nthn> In Nov 2019, Jolla decided against an updated baseport for Xperia X because they would have to maintain two baseports for one device, but community sees no problem in abandoning the old baseport and reflashing their devices, and is able and willing to help Jolla out with a new baseport - community member @vknecht already got Sailfish running on kernel 4.9 in Dec 2019.
07:16:19 <sledges> #info <nthn> Would Jolla revisit their decision, and if so, what should community do to make updated kernel/Android app support on Xperia X a reality?
07:16:23 <sledges> #info Extended details:
07:16:24 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-apr-2021/5818/10
07:16:58 <sledges> #info <Jolla> Jolla is not actively developing new baseports for old devices that are no longer sold anywhere, but we are looking into possibility of allowing community to buy proprietary parts of Sailfish X to install on top of community ports, but unfortunately we are not there yet.
07:17:24 <Nico[m]> Oh, that would be amazing!
07:17:58 <Nico[m]> Also, my whole family is using the X compact by now for some reason, so having a newer android and baseport for it would be appreciated .-.
07:17:59 <rubdos[ma]> That would basically open up the whole wide world of smartphones to a full-fledged SailfishOS... Woah.
07:19:11 <rubdos[ma]> You're saying you're not actively developing a new baseport, but apparently the community has done it. It might make sense that, if that community port works and the proprietary bits fit right in, you can help the community by swapping maintenance to the new port?
07:19:31 <rubdos[ma]> I'm not sure whether the old port is still "sold and supported" at this point (I'm an X10 user myself)
07:20:05 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet: The newer android part works pretty differently, so the swap wouldn't just magically work
07:20:31 <rubdos[ma]> More like swapping it on an administrative level: Jolla saying "this is old, if you have a new Xperia, install this instead"
07:21:26 <sledges> Xperia X is still receiving all sfos updates and needed CVEs in its kernel
07:21:59 <rubdos[ma]> I guess it would double the work for Jolla for some time, if you were to "upgrade" it :-/
07:22:45 <sledges> if you "upgrade" (=reflash) it with a community port, doesn't it become a community port?:)
07:22:53 <sledges> +device
07:23:18 <Thaodan> There are some restrictions on updating devices, even updated devices are not completely updated by sony
07:23:22 <rubdos[ma]> Yeh, I think nthn would basically want Jolla to cooperate on the "community port" and make it an "official port"...
07:23:56 <sledges> rubdos, yep, but that does double the work, and was the same reason in 2019
07:25:02 <abranson> But I think the main motivation for asking about official ports there is to get the sailfishx stuff
07:25:23 <rinigus> interesting way if it works to provide prop bits to community ports. that way xperia x could be offloaded to community and supported by porters, if newer prop bits are needed.
07:25:36 <rubdos[ma]> Yes. Getting as close as possible to "supported with all the nice bits" is the goal, I feel.
07:25:40 <rinigus> let's see if we have porter(s) interested in it
07:25:58 <rinigus> ... supporting x
07:26:11 <rubdos[ma]> Indeed, putting the proprietary bits for sale will solve 99% of the issue, I think.
07:26:13 <abranson> There's no way Jolla could commit to taking over maintenance of all ports. I don't think even our build infra could take all those builds, let alone the sailors :D
07:26:50 <Nico[m]> Bah, the build infra part would be solveable ;p
07:27:01 <abranson> just expensive :D
07:27:01 <rubdos[ma]> Well, we're not asking to support literally all the smartphones that ever existed on the planet :'-)
07:27:11 <rubdos[ma]> Just Throw It In The Cloud™
07:27:38 <abranson> but they'd all need updating. how many ports are out there that the original porter stopped supporting.
07:28:10 <Nico[m]> But if the X stuff would work with any community port (or most of them), I would have a lot more freedom to choose devices and maybe I would even make my own port. So that sounds really nice :D
07:28:34 <rubdos[ma]> It might be a major incentive for porters to step up and keep maintaining for longer.
07:29:00 <rinigus> abranson: I don't think it was asked to support all ports. original topic was regarding xperia x. jolla's solution is to say no to that specific question, but propose the way to make it possible by community.
07:29:12 <rinigus> which is fine, I guess
07:29:16 <rubdos[ma]> If you consider Xperia X to be "written off", having the community maintain it for a few years longer sounds like a fair deal, given the proprietary nuts and bolts...
07:29:38 <Nico[m]> rinigus: Probably better than what was asked for .-.
07:30:05 <rinigus> sure, unofficial ports users will be happy for such outcome
07:31:05 <rinigus> and we can test how many people will be willing to put hours into making xperia x switch happen.
07:31:18 <abranson> rinigus: the question if jolla would make a port official kind of adds those questions on, and I think it's important to make clear why that's not feasible. If it's expected that Jolla then maintain the port indefinitely, then those would quickly accumulate.
07:31:47 <abranson> but as we're saying, it should be necessary
07:31:51 <abranson> shouldn't!
07:31:58 <rubdos[ma]> I mean, for the Xperia X the porting work seems to be "done" already, so I feel like the switch will be relatively smooth...
07:32:41 <rinigus> is unofficial xperia x port updated to the latest version?
07:33:35 <rinigus> that "done" is reset with every SFOS release and you have to update the port accordingly. which is not Jolla's job and shouldn't be.
07:33:56 <rinigus> abranson: sure, don't think it was implied. but always good to be clear on it
07:34:30 <abranson> yeah, that was my point. it's the assumption that everything else must work around
07:35:08 <Nico[m]> abranson: Some ports really should be made official just for image purposes imo, like PinePhone and FairPhone ports, but that is a different topic .-.
07:35:08 <rubdos[ma]> Nico, rinigus , I was replying to "and we can test how many people will be willing to put hours into making xperia x switch happen."
07:35:09 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet: I'm pretty sure the switch for users could not be done via a simple update, so you get the annoying maintenance split, I think. So even if the work is done, it doesn't mean that Jolla wouldn't have a lot more work on their hands, if they made it official.
07:35:20 <rubdos[ma]> not re Jolla taking it up anymore :-)
07:37:30 <sledges> so, not the answer nthn was hoping for, but a better one:)) let's move on (or continue)
07:37:37 <sledges> #topic General discussion (20 min)
07:37:40 <Nico[m]> Ah, i see :D
07:37:41 <rinigus> Ruben De Smet: yes, it is probably going to be relatively smooth if it all worked on some recent SFOS release. just some work will be needed./
07:38:09 <rubdos[ma]> Maybe a last follow-up: it would be nice if Jolla could provide the proprietary bits for community ports some time ahead of deprecating/abandoning the existing Xperia X port.
07:38:22 <rubdos[ma]> But I guess that's obvious :-)
07:38:39 * Nico[m] comes to complain about Qt5.6 again. Can you please go to management again and ask them for a solution? <3
07:38:52 <rinigus> I haven't asked as it was late when the question came up. so, maybe as a part of gen discussion: would Jolla consider hosting ports in some manner?
07:39:05 <sledges> Nico[m]: we do that on regular basis:)
07:39:05 <Nico[m]> Like not, if we can get a Qt upgrade, but how we can get a Qt upgrade? :D
07:39:14 <rubdos[ma]> I'm also joining the Qt5.6-is-sad-camp now; we've got KDE devs willing to port Whisperfish to Plasma ;p
07:39:29 <Nico[m]> sledges: Thought as much. Just making some noise .-.
07:39:48 <Mister_Magister> oh dang i overslept
07:39:49 <Nico[m]> It is getting painful to have the MOC from Qt5.6 work with C++17 namespaces and such
07:39:59 <sledges> Nico[m]: rubdos[ma]: have you seen this? https://dot.kde.org/2021/04/06/announcing-kdes-qt-5-patch-collection
07:40:04 <Mister_Magister> welp too bad
07:40:06 <abranson> rinigus: don't some ports have bits in that can't be redistributed legally?
07:40:09 <rinigus> I have worked on building complicated apps/ports on PC and got to the stage where I can build port and my apps quite well, similar to OBS. but hosting bits of OBS are needed externally
07:40:32 <Nico[m]> sledges: Yes, I have seen that, we are currently updating the gentoo builds to use that
07:40:38 <sledges> nice
07:40:44 <rinigus> abranson: not to my knowledge. we usually ask to flash lineage as a base with those bits
07:40:48 <rubdos[ma]> Thanks sledges , will forward that to the KDE people ;p
07:41:03 <sledges> rubdos[ma]: was a side-note :p
07:41:06 <rinigus> and for sony there is a whole legal way for it
07:41:11 <Nico[m]> But I doubt those patches fix your licensing issues :D
07:41:28 <Nico[m]> Also, good morning, Mister_Magister!
07:42:01 <rubdos[ma]> I have one other for the general discussion. Given the recent stuff about the (apparently incapable) people of Cellebrite trying to exfiltrate smart phone data, I was thinking about what to do when SailfishOS becomes a target. See e.g. https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/.
07:42:10 <Mister_Magister> you can ask DASH-IF or any opensource player including gstreamer. none of them have any idea what license cost you are talking about
07:42:15 <Nico[m]> FTR, Qt5.6 compat in C++ only libs is not too hard, but still annoying: https://github.com/Nheko-Reborn/mtxclient/commit/1d85613f56d6d30c989ae5eeca3b6cb7f2bd86a6
07:42:20 <Mister_Magister> there are no license costs associated with playing DASH
07:42:25 <Mister_Magister> its jolla's imaginary tihng
07:42:50 <sledges> rinigus: i don't think built sony's /system and /vendor contents are allowed to be hosted publicly
07:43:03 <flypig> rubdos[ma], did you see the paper about using Cellebrite with SFOS?
07:43:23 <rubdos[ma]> No, absolutely not
07:43:36 <rinigus> sledges: do you have reference to that? since those are built without prop bits which you download separately
07:43:51 <Thaodan> sledges: I don't think thats the case
07:44:05 <sledges> built binaries will have all android mixed licences within
07:44:09 <Thaodan> only the parts from odm are not public
07:44:10 <rinigus> when I asked on sony opendevices I mainly got laughed at. there is also a post regarding it
07:44:26 <Thaodan> the rest is apache/bsd code
07:44:34 <rinigus> sledges: as long as they are open source, it is OK
07:44:48 <sledges> but each and every licence needs to be accounted for, i think that was the prob
07:44:54 <sledges> i.e. in RPM's .spec
07:45:14 <rubdos[ma]> flypig: https://www.forensicfocus.com/articles/meeting-a-forensic-challenge-recovering-data-from-a-jolla-smartphone/ this one?
07:45:21 <sledges> src is trivial -- it's in the header of a file:)
07:45:42 <Thaodan> /system and /vendor is the case of sony just aosp but some vendors have blobs in /vendor
07:45:55 <flypig> rubdos[ma], interesting, but no not that one. This one: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167404820303278
07:46:00 <rinigus> sledges: in principle, we don't even need to host /system & /vendor. as those are used only while making image. what is needed all SFOS rpm's that get updated with OTA
07:46:09 <sledges> i've run a scrambler script once for the amount of licences in aosp, it's a mixed bag:)
07:46:09 <Nico[m]> Oh, while we are talking about recovering data from Sailfish devices, when will we get alphanumeric passcodes for FDE? :D
07:46:11 <rubdos[ma]> Ah a real paper, flypig :-)
07:46:35 <sledges> rinigus: system and vendor get regular updates
07:47:12 <rinigus> sledges: do you update it via updated /system & /vendor RPMs as well on official devices?
07:47:19 <ShalokShalom51> Hi there
07:47:26 <flypig> rubdos[ma], I could be misremembering the forensic tool they used in that paper.
07:47:36 <sledges> rinigus: yes, because we don't ask users to flash aosp first:) we package /system and /vendor into RPMs
07:47:47 <sledges> and leave open door for future patches
07:47:51 <ShalokShalom51> I feel interested into Sailfish and the Astro Slide, is there any support planned?
07:47:58 <rubdos[ma]> flypig: they have UFED in the list
07:48:04 <rinigus> sledges: yes, same for tama port. but I don't update those ones, maybe should
07:48:34 <ShalokShalom51> Can I use Sailfish on this device?
07:48:34 <rubdos[ma]> UFED requires ADB, so that's a no-no.
07:48:40 <rinigus> sledges: but back to the point - system and vendor should be legal to distribute. how do you do it then for official devices?
07:48:56 <sledges> for active ports sony keeps pushing fixes; especially for something that's coming up;) (see first news):
07:48:59 <sledges> #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-22nd-april/5967
07:49:23 <sledges> rinigus: i'm talking about hosting them on a public server
07:49:25 <ShalokShalom51> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer
07:49:31 <ShalokShalom51> Thanks
07:49:50 <Nico[m]> I really need to get some notifications going for those blog posts!
07:49:52 <rinigus> sledges: but the server from which updates are pulled can be also considered public, isn't it?
07:50:09 <Nico[m]> Could the writer maybe spam the link once in #sailfishos? :D
07:50:12 <rinigus> the one used for official sony ports
07:50:33 <Thaodan> It is common that aosp images are distributed by porters on xda
07:50:37 <ShalokShalom51> Hi there
07:50:39 <Thaodan> Is see no issue here
07:51:10 <rinigus> Thaodan: XDA images will not help with OTA
07:51:12 <Mister_Magister> sledges: so we gotta suffer because jolla lives in imaginary world of dash playback costs even though literally noone has any idea what you are talking about? https://youdieifyou.work/files/hbynibuduahk.png
07:51:34 <rinigus> we do need some server where we can point OTAs, as we do with OBS right now
07:51:48 <flypig> rubdos[ma], yes, you're right, they used UFED and X-Ways
07:51:48 <flypig> Forensics.
07:51:50 <Nico[m]> Guess I need to buy a 10 now to test 64bit apps :D
07:51:56 <sledges> rinigus: but we do not host public git repos for the system and vendor binary blobs and build everything internally
07:51:58 <Thaodan> rinigus: That was just one example why I think distrubting them is no issue.
07:52:08 <sledges> rinigus: build guide explicitly says "do not push droid-system to public git"
07:52:30 <Nico[m]> Especially since my X is having issues with shutdown and I need to unplug the battery...
07:52:37 <Thaodan> sledges: droid-system contains no blobs that are not build by foss sources
07:52:38 <sledges> rinigus: i believe this has to be sorted after we have accouted for each and every licence within aosp
07:52:45 <sledges> Thaodan: ^
07:53:35 <rinigus> sledges: from legal POV, it shouldn't matter whether /system /vendor are distributed from your closed or public server. you redistribute them which means that such license check was done
07:53:37 <flypig> rubdos[ma], plus a bunch of others: Autopsy, Axium, Cellebrite, EnCase, FTK, GetData...
07:53:45 <Thaodan> If this was an issue xda would be shutdown years ago
07:54:02 <rinigus> notice that you don't redistribute prop bobs, but Sony does
07:54:09 <sledges> rinigus: but it has to account in RPM's Licence line
07:54:34 <rubdos[ma]> flypig: can we offer ADB on the Sony devices that just sends "interesting files" (as per moxie0) to Cellebrite? ;-)
07:54:46 <rinigus> sledges: so what license line do we have there. you probably wrote it...
07:55:08 <sledges> a sailor who took the decision wrote all that, and it's WIP
07:55:13 <flypig> rubdos[ma], yeah, that would be fun to set up. I don't see why not.
07:55:31 <rubdos[ma]> hehehe
07:55:56 <rinigus> sledges: OK, iff you don't want to redistribute system/vendor right now, what about other packages?
07:56:20 <rinigus> ... and we can discuss legal aspect of system/vendor later
07:56:26 <sledges> abranson: could you see Mister_Magister comment pls ^^
07:57:05 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i will go directly to MPEG-LA and confirm about any licensing costs associated with opensource players if jolla is too lazy
07:57:12 <sledges> rinigus: going back to your original request: there is no provision of hosting, because jolla would have to vet for everything's that's being uploaded, to check if something non-redist has sneaked in (even unwillingly)
07:57:16 <Mister_Magister> gstreamer guys have no idea about any license either
07:57:27 <abranson> Mister_Magister: did you email mpeg-la like she suggested?
07:57:35 <Mister_Magister> i'm going to
07:57:48 <sledges> rinigus: community has hosted numerous things (gitlab CI), i'm sure a hosting solution can be achieved similar way through joint effort
07:57:54 <Mister_Magister> but you missed first part
07:58:00 <Mister_Magister> >We do not have any licensing fees and are not involved with any fees.
07:58:02 <sledges> openrepos was another party extending a helping hand
07:58:14 <abranson> ok. we can ask the legal team to look into that maybe.
07:58:19 <rinigus> sledges: now that means, unless we fund it somehow externally from Jolla, ports will have to look for solution. or stop with them and move away
07:58:37 <Mister_Magister> abranson: thats all i want
07:58:53 <sledges> rinigus: it's a do-it-together spirit
07:59:01 <sledges> just like it's always been
07:59:28 <Mister_Magister> rinigus: we already have solution for OTA ports
07:59:42 <rinigus> sledges: OBS?
07:59:55 <rinigus> that doesn't support aarch64 right now
08:00:21 <rinigus> sorry, Mister_Magister
08:00:28 <sledges> rinigus: and OBS is not forever (also suffers from unvetted uploads)
08:00:32 <Mister_Magister> rinigus: mentioned, openrepos
08:00:49 <Mister_Magister> guy agreed that we can put device packages there, even on separate account
08:01:35 <ShalokShalom51> Any dev here? https://jolla.com/sailfishx/
08:01:40 <rinigus> Mister_Magister: I don't think we have some kind of API to push the packages. then you also need separate repos for different versions.
08:01:46 <ShalokShalom51> Look at the comparison sheet
08:01:54 <Mister_Magister> rinigus: thats true
08:02:04 <Mister_Magister> ultimately maybe ill cook something
08:02:16 <ShalokShalom51> Android 9 is now supported on the 10, this graph still shows 8.1
08:02:18 <Mister_Magister> getting 1TB server that will just host packages is like 5€ play
08:02:19 <rinigus> sledges: neither are we (re forever).
08:02:55 <Mister_Magister> so don't you worry
08:02:59 <rinigus> Mister_Magister: depends on number of downloads, that's probably main expense
08:03:04 <sledges> rinigus: HADK OTA updates (chapter 12) describes how to handle multiple versions
08:03:08 <Mister_Magister> rinigus: ports aren't much popular
08:03:11 <sledges> on a externally hosted repos
08:03:12 <Mister_Magister> quite honestly
08:03:20 <rubdos[ma]> ShalokShalom51: it's very unlikely that Jolla will start supporting a non-Sony device currently.
08:03:32 <ShalokShalom51> Thanks
08:03:33 <sledges> rinigus: it's the same scenario like TMO keeping N900 up and running
08:03:40 <rubdos[ma]> ShalokShalom51: we're basically all devs here.
08:03:41 <rinigus> sledges: hence I was asking regarding hosting.
08:03:49 <ShalokShalom51> It did so with the Gemini, from the same company
08:04:04 <rubdos[ma]> Ah
08:04:07 <Mister_Magister> as long as i'm in this, there will always be a way
08:04:15 <sledges> rinigus: i was answering to "then you also need separate repos for different versions" :)
08:04:19 <rubdos[ma]> Didn't make that link myself, ShalokShalom51 ... Then I didn't say anything :-)
08:04:30 <ShalokShalom51> ?
08:04:30 <rinigus> sledges: actually, as you guys have the data - can you tell how much data does OBS serve during a month?
08:04:35 <Nico[m]> Btw, what is the process for getting qml APIs whitelisted for harbour? Could I get Sailfish.Silica.Background whitelisted at some point? <3
08:04:55 <Mister_Magister> sledges: i second that
08:05:10 <ShalokShalom51> Did the Gemini support come from Sailfish directly?
08:05:14 <rinigus> on average, then it will be clear what do we talk about. as, indeed, some 3rd party hosting can be done in the cloud as well
08:05:34 <Mister_Magister> rinigus: or in my living room, or in cloud, whatever is doable
08:05:44 <rubdos[ma]> Nico: fwiw, we rolled our own roundedbackground because of 3.x and 4.x incompat ;p
08:05:54 <Thaodan> I think users that use SFOS are interested in being hosted by "the cloud"
08:06:04 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet: Is that harbour compatible? :D
08:06:08 <rubdos[ma]> haha harbour
08:06:09 <sledges> rinigus: i'll get back to you on how much data community OBS serves a month, unless lbt knows already:)
08:06:15 <Mister_Magister> Thaodan: users wouldn't see diff
08:06:17 <rubdos[ma]> We're on Rust with a ton of hacks, harbour is far for us :D
08:06:19 <Mister_Magister> my living room is the cloud
08:06:31 <Nico[m]> Because that is the last dependency really blocking me from harbour
08:06:35 <rubdos[ma]> ShalokShalom51: the Gemini is an official SailfishX from Jolla afaik.
08:06:35 <rinigus> sledges: thanks. we just need something that will not disappear in a year or two
08:06:41 <Mister_Magister> can we just ignore existance of harbour
08:06:43 <ShalokShalom51> This graph is outdated and shown on the webpage: https://jolla.com/content/uploads/2020/01/SailfishX-table@2x.png?x54860
08:06:43 <lbt> I don't monitor OBS serving as the Hetzner solution is unlimited
08:06:45 <Mister_Magister> and move with our lives
08:06:57 <Thaodan> Mister_Magister: I'm not sure if thats to polish to me xD
08:07:06 <Mister_Magister> Thaodan: it really is
08:07:24 <Mister_Magister> but like is said getting 1TB vps with 1Gb/s link  is ez
08:07:25 <Nico[m]> And it seems small and self contained and it did get recently moved to its own package, so I think it was planned to be allowed at some point :D
08:07:29 <ShalokShalom51> rubdos: So it is possible to support another device of this lineup
08:07:32 <Mister_Magister> and that would be enough for us i think
08:07:38 <rinigus> lbt: OK, np.
08:07:42 <rubdos[ma]> ShalokShalom51: they only added Xperia 10 II this morning, give them some time to update the graphs ;p
08:07:57 <ShalokShalom51> Ah, ok
08:08:12 <Thaodan> Mister_Magister: I know, there is https://thaodan.de/public/sailfishos/community/ already used by tama.
08:08:14 <ShalokShalom51> And I mean the Android 9 support
08:08:16 <rubdos[ma]> ShalokShalom51: if the 10 II interests you: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-22nd-april/5967
08:08:28 <Mister_Magister> Thaodan: nothing is stopping you from usign your own repos
08:08:29 <ShalokShalom51> That one is a littler older, I think?
08:08:36 <Mister_Magister> i'm just thinking about global solution
08:08:49 <ShalokShalom51> I am interested into the Astro Slide
08:08:52 <Nico[m]> Also, has anyone played around with OpenPush on Sailfish?
08:08:57 <Thaodan> Well anyone that pings me can hoost their repos there
08:09:02 <Thaodan> *host
08:09:04 <Mister_Magister> heh
08:09:06 <ShalokShalom51> Since the physical keyboard
08:09:07 <Thaodan> It is far to early..
08:09:17 <Mister_Magister> i'll most likely host my packages in my living room xd
08:09:24 <ViGe> Nico[m]: The "process" of gettin an API allowed starts by getting it to pass the checklist: https://sailfishos.org/wiki/API_Checklist. I have no idea if the API you mentioned does that already.
08:09:29 <ShalokShalom51> Is the Qt 5.6 debacle already solved?
08:09:36 <Mister_Magister> ShalokShalom51: HAH
08:09:37 <rubdos[ma]> They're all older, the Xperias. They need some time to get a new device supported. I think maybe for the Astro Slide you could open a topic on the forum, or write a topic for the next meeting.  It's too noisy and unfocussed in the "General Discussion", ShalokShalom51 .
08:09:44 <Nico[m]> ViGe: Thanks, I'll look at it :3
08:09:48 <Mister_Magister> think we will be in 5.6 for next 10 years
08:09:55 <ShalokShalom51> Ok, thanks a lot.
08:09:57 <rubdos[ma]> ^ slightly dramatic
08:10:03 <Mister_Magister> we don't deal in up to date in sfos
08:10:09 <rubdos[ma]> (but it does get the point across haha)
08:10:10 <Nico[m]> Mister_Magister: I see, you are an optimist!
08:10:10 <Mister_Magister> we deal in older than debian stable
08:10:14 <Mister_Magister> Nico[m]: mhm
08:10:22 <ShalokShalom51> Did you contact KDE?
08:10:38 <rinigus> Thaodan: OK, let's discuss distribution via your server then on porters channel at some point.
08:10:42 <ShalokShalom51> They could release the license.
08:10:50 <Thaodan> Mister_Magister: Don't let coronara restrictions hinder you in hosting packages for other people xD
08:10:54 <maier> rubdos[ma]: is there a chance to get the Sony 10 III working with SOF?
08:10:54 <Mister_Magister> give me one package from sfos standard repos thats newer than same package in debian stable
08:11:01 <Mister_Magister> Thaodan: hm?
08:11:02 <Thaodan> rinigus:
08:11:06 <Thaodan> rinigus: sure
08:11:08 <rubdos[ma]> maier: you have an unreleased device, or is that a typo?
08:11:16 <rubdos[ma]> (or did I miss a release?)
08:11:18 <ShalokShalom51> You know about their specific Qt license privilege, yes?
08:11:21 * rubdos[ma] missed a release
08:11:38 <Nico[m]> ViGe: I guess it kinda fits most of those points, I guess it is probably missing some docs though. It is the bubble background used in the messaging app FTR, so it is useful for messaging apps, that want to look similar to the first party one :3
08:11:45 <rubdos[ma]> maier: there's always a chance, if you port it yourself, I suppose.
08:11:53 <Thaodan> Mister_Magister: That was a bad pun on hosting stuff in your living room
08:11:55 <ShalokShalom51> They also considered forking Qt
08:11:56 <maier> rubdos[ma]: you are right ... but that is my next mobile
08:12:21 <Mister_Magister> Thaodan: got 100Mb/s uplink… and server is running 24/7 anyway
08:12:36 <Mister_Magister> like my website is on it
08:12:45 <rubdos[ma]> You could look at the latency between a Sony release and a Jolla release, and extrapolate that to see when III is supported maier :-)
08:12:47 <ShalokShalom51> https://kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation/
08:13:24 <Nico[m]> I guess I should ask here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/what-apis-are-missing-from-harbour/4017/46
08:13:25 <ShalokShalom51> A BSD license is probably fitting for the project
08:13:29 <rinigus> Ruben De Smet: also add latency between sony release and sony aosp release
08:13:45 <maier> Slowly it is annoying to get only old hw!
08:13:50 <ViGe> Mister_Magister: So.. what do I get if I tell you a package which is newer on the last released SFOS release than Debian stable?
08:13:58 <rubdos[ma]> If there is variability on that part, rinigus , then it needs to be accounted for :-)
08:14:09 <Mister_Magister> ViGe: my respect…? i can paypal u 1€
08:14:28 <ShalokShalom51> Qt 5.6 is obviously synonym with killing the company, so Sailfish is the next BB10 then..
08:14:43 <rinigus> there is some, I believe. + to variability, it takes sufficient amount of time usually
08:14:46 <ShalokShalom51> While this died for several reasons.
08:15:33 <ViGe> Mister_Magister: respect is enough, you can forget the 1€ ;) createrepo in SFOS 4.0.1 is at 0.12.0, while Debian still has 0.10.3 I guess there might be other packages as well
08:15:45 <Nico[m]> ShalokShalom51: There is no need to be dramatic
08:16:24 <Mister_Magister> Nico[m]: he is not dramatic
08:16:35 <Mister_Magister> state of sailfishos is terrible currently
08:16:37 <ShalokShalom51> Slightly
08:16:43 <Mister_Magister> and its getting worse
08:17:02 <ShalokShalom51> Are there any spins done by the community?
08:17:02 * rubdos[ma] is off buying new glasses now, see you the next one!
08:17:17 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet: Hah, good pun!
08:17:20 <Thaodan> rubdos[ma]: See you :)
08:17:20 <Nico[m]> See ya!
08:17:21 <maier> Is there a way to do payments with a SFOS mobile directly? like in other modern OS's?
08:17:37 <ShalokShalom51> I think the situation is well compared to Blackberry
08:17:46 <ShalokShalom51> And we all know that
08:17:57 <Mister_Magister> nemo is the future
08:17:58 <Thaodan> maier: Is there one that does not require lock down (of the device)?
08:18:22 <rubdos[ma]> Nico: pun not intended O.o
08:18:27 <abranson> "modern" == devices that you don't really own :D
08:18:29 <maier> My son's Samsung...
08:18:47 <ShalokShalom51> Great OS and slowing down development for the decisions made by people, who pay the bills .. and touch zero code.
08:18:49 <Nico[m]> Ruben De Smet: Still, I liked it ;p
08:19:04 <sledges> we're ever so "slightly" overtime, let's wrap up
08:19:05 <ShalokShalom51> Nemo? Let me see
08:19:34 <Mister_Magister> sledges: just tell jolla to really check the dash situation pls
08:19:47 <flypig> maier, are there open payment systems that Sailfish could hook up to?
08:19:55 <maier> I understand you all ...I also what the control over the device I use! But the main point us I what to use it.
08:19:56 <Mister_Magister> ask gstreamer ash mpeg-la ask anyone
08:20:28 <abranson> personally I'm still more comfortable with a separate card. I wouldn't run third-party software on that...
08:20:44 <flypig> ShalokShalom51, thanks for flagging up the outdated info in that table. I've passed the info on so it can be updated.
08:20:45 <sledges> #info quite a discussion (make yourself a cuppa)
08:21:04 <ShalokShalom51> Sure, thanks
08:21:13 <ShalokShalom51> Always here to help
08:21:16 <flypig> :D
08:21:18 <ShalokShalom51> :)
08:21:21 <Nico[m]> It's nice to see such lively community meetings, even if half the comments are complaints :D
08:21:44 <sledges> #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)
08:21:51 <flypig> Nico[m], I've asked about Background too. I'll let you know if there's any info on that.
08:21:52 <ShalokShalom51> Complaints are simply bug reports with emotions as attachments
08:22:04 <sledges> Proposing Thursday 6th May at 7am UTC
08:22:05 <Nico[m]> flypig: Lovely, thank you! <3
08:22:19 <ExTechOp> sledges That sounds workable
08:22:20 <ShalokShalom51> So the meetings is still to come?
08:22:45 <sledges> #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 6th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC:  2021-05-06T07Z
08:22:45 <ShalokShalom51> Isnt UTC 7 already couple of hours back?
08:22:48 <maier> flypig: I do not hat the possibillity to pay with my SFOS device ... I'm even not able to login to other payment ssyems because of old sw.
08:22:49 <Nico[m]> ShalokShalom51: Yeah, I think most people know that by now. .-.
08:22:58 <ShalokShalom51> Ah, ok
08:23:03 <Nico[m]> Also, meeting is over, not starting ;p
08:23:17 <ExTechOp> Thanks!
08:23:41 <Nico[m]> Thanks for the meeting and the answers, everyone!
08:23:47 <sledges> thanks all, let's keep spirits up and May complaints be replaced by fixed bugreports:)
08:23:50 <sledges> #endmeeting